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Laying the favourite – politicalbetting.com

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,345
    FF43 said:

    This video explains why. It comes down to cost and risk. You reduce the cost and even more so the risk if you reuse existing facilities. Paris will cost about half the London games, which was a somewhat better managed Olympics than most of the recent ones.

    The amount of legacy they will get from it is not massively different from other cities. Olympics have always been justified for host cities on the legacy it generates but it has nearly always been a nonsense. The $10 billion or whatever buys you a three week party the world is invited to.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/25/why-the-paris-olympics-cost-so-much-little.html
    Thanks for the replies from yourself and @Sandpit . Looks like my criticism was wrong, especially as the permanent aquatics centre does have a new 50-metre pool.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728
    Looks like, potentially, an all-out Israel-Hezbollah war. Exciting times

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jul/28/israel-gaza-war-strikes-hezbollah-lebanon-golan-heights
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001
    edited July 2024

    Won't be enough. If its a protest vote against a failing government not delivering the policies they want, it won't be a switch to a mad Tory party being led by a loon advocating God knows what.
    Under FPTP that remains the main alternative in most seats, plenty thought Thatcher a mad rightwing loon in 1975 too. Jenrick isn't even that rightwing, he backed Remain in 2016 for example before backing Brexit once Leave won
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001
    edited July 2024
    ClippP said:

    Or against both, if the LDs play their cards right.....
    Unless the LDs go full Orange Book fiscal conservatism plus rejoin the EU (ie back to Cleggism) they will offer an echo of Starmer not an alternative to his government
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,321
    Leon said:

    As has been shown in Holland and Denmark, non western migrants are a net drain on an economy

    https://unherd.com/newsroom/dutch-study-immigration-costs-state-e17-billion-per-year/

    As for the asylum seekers, you think “efficient processing” will deter others from coming? lol. No

    “Labour admits Britain is locked in a small-boat crisis in the Channel just days after scrapping Tories' Rwanda deportation scheme - as 1,100 migrants land in UK since Keir Starmer took power.”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13641121/Labour-admits-Britain-locked-small-boat-crisis-Channel-just-days-scrapping-Tories-Rwanda-deportation-scheme-1-100-migrants-land-UK-Keir-Starmer-took-power.html
    I know you have difficulty with basic reading comprehension but what part of Fairliered's "If the migrants are working in the health, care and hospitality sectors" did you have problems understanding?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,321
    Chris said:

    Your best attempt at making sense of that Trump nonsense is "Après moi, le déluge"?
    It's a reasonable interpretation tbf.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    HYUFD said:

    Many private school teachers would give up teaching rather than teach in the average comp, plenty have Phds and could be academic researchers in universities or the private sector instead for example
    Ummm a few have PhDs. I certainly wouldn't criticise many of my own school teachers but the idea that a large number would walk into academic research positions? No. Some may go to the state sector but I think this is pretty small compensation for the costs of the policy in having to educate more pupils in state schools. However one thing that helps is the declining number of children. That will reduce the cost of education and help stop overcrowding.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,154
    Cicero said:

    As previously noted "a wish is not a claim upon reality". The Tories are done for quite a while, maybe forever. The "unacceptable versus the insipid" leadership race shows no sign of turning the Tories around. As for Farage, disappearing up Trumps fundament while trying to crap on Ukraine is why he will never achieve office.
    The Doughty St tendency has led the right down a path of infantile populism coloured with aggression that makes Patel a stateswoman and Jenrick a moderate. Face up to it- you're finished as a coherent political force under any of these leaders. All you have left is coarse, populist invective a la Trump, and that is a position of failure.
    Trying to fight old battles just reminds us how much we loathe these people. You need to press a reset button that isn't Farage or Patel or Jenrick. Won't happen this time though.
    Isn’t this statement “ The Tories are done for quite a while, maybe forever.” showing you doing exactly what you are criticising others for in the bit in bold?

    You despise the Tories, that’s absolutely fine, but your wish for them to be done or finished is likely a wish. Many people thought Labour were done or finished after 2019, black Swans and a change in leadership turned things around in one term, there is no reason that this also cannot happen with the Tories so your hubris, confidence and joy at the demise of the Tories might just be clouding your judgement.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,154
    carnforth said:

    Bit of a lack of self-awareness gem, this sentence combo.

    Bugger, you posted what I was getting at in a much pithier and more effective way.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,877

    Thanks for the replies from yourself and @Sandpit . Looks like my criticism was wrong, especially as the permanent aquatics centre does have a new 50-metre pool.
    Presumably the new aquatics centre in St Denis being used for less popular Olympic sports like water polo will provide sufficient seating for normal competitive events such as European swimming championships after the Olympics are over
  • Cobblers. From my experience, admittedly 25 years or so ago.
    This is more recent, courtesy of an op under work health insurance and parent self funding an op.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001
    edited July 2024

    Ummm a few have PhDs. I certainly wouldn't criticise many of my own school teachers but the idea that a large number would walk into academic research positions? No. Some may go to the state sector but I think this is pretty small compensation for the costs of the policy in having to educate more pupils in state schools. However one thing that helps is the declining number of children. That will reduce the cost of education and help stop overcrowding.
    If they did go into the state sector it would be mostly grammar schools any ex teachers of closed small private schools went to and the odd outstanding rated free school or academy or primary school or else bigger elite private schools which remained open even with VAT on school fees.

    They certainly won't be going to the average comp down the road
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,164
    edited July 2024
    Leon said:

    Looks like, potentially, an all-out Israel-Hezbollah war. Exciting times

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/jul/28/israel-gaza-war-strikes-hezbollah-lebanon-golan-heights

    Absolutely sick of this shit
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,345

    No not the same thing.

    You have a triangle of railways between A, B and C. You run a fibre backbone around the whole network.

    If you cut the fibre a mile and a half from A on the line between A and B then the comms transmission bearer reroutes evertyhing to run via C, including the equipment box two miles from A which instead of routing via a mile of the A to B fibre routes from A to C to B then most of the way back to the equipment box near A.

    You have to ensure that every bit of the fibre route from A to B is physically diverse from the Fibre Routes from A to C or from C to B.

    As I once said on an equalities module in a management course to general laughter and a stunned lecturer who had asked what "Diversity" mean't.

    "Diversity means Effective Segregation."

    Redundancy would be having two equipment boxes two miles down the track from A.
    Urrrm, no. Redundancy *can* mean that; it can also mean a whole host of other things as well.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,321
    HYUFD said:

    If they did go into the state sector it would be mostly grammar schools any ex teachers of closed small private schools went to and the odd outstanding rated free school or academy or primary school or else bigger elite private schools which remained open even with VAT on school fees.

    They certainly won't be going to the average comp down the road
    Do you actually know any really good teachers?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,660
    HYUFD said:

    Could be Vance's VP pick in 2028?
    Don Jnr was the idiot who picked/vetted him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728
    FF43 said:

    Presumably the new aquatics centre in St Denis being used for less popular Olympic sports like water polo will provide sufficient seating for normal competitive events such as European swimming championships after the Olympics are over
    Given that it’s in Saint Denis it will probably become a venue for international fent dealing and pan-European people smuggling
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,394
    boulay said:

    Isn’t this statement “ The Tories are done for quite a while, maybe forever.” showing you doing exactly what you are criticising others for in the bit in bold?

    You despise the Tories, that’s absolutely fine, but your wish for them to be done or finished is likely a wish. Many people thought Labour were done or finished after 2019, black Swans and a change in leadership turned things around in one term, there is no reason that this also cannot happen with the Tories so your hubris, confidence and joy at the demise of the Tories might just be clouding your judgement.
    Ok Tories, you seriously think they will win the next General Election? Really? Really, hand on heart? I appreciate Labour are not loved, and neither is Reform or the Lib Dems for that matter, but the negatives on the Tories are just way to high for a quick recovery It is delusional to think that all it needs is to "keep buggering on". Unless you press the reset button, there is no historical precedent for a Tory recovery to power in a single Parliament- that's a statement of fact, not of opinion or a wish.
    You're right, I do think the Tories deserve oblivion, but I've been beaten too many times to have anything other than an ultra realist view of the shiftless sods. So feel free to cheer on the empty shell of dead right wing populism if you like, but the world is moving on.
    The self indulgent wank of the last government was a total disgrace and a gimmicky, childish, abject failure. Keep playing that game and you will lose, and rightly so. So feel free to keep listening to "non experts", to columnists or self appointed pundits. Much good it will do you.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728


    Absolutely sick of this shit
    It is indeed bleak. On the “upside” the Israelis have made menacing noises like this, before - and done nothing. Hezbollah is a much more potent enemy than Hamas. So maybe it will fizzle out

    However it is hard for them to ignore a missile strike like this and if they don’t crush Hezbollah it means northern Israel could become uninhabitable
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001
    edited July 2024
    kamski said:

    Do you actually know any really good teachers?
    What makes a good teacher in your average comp, namely being able to control a class mainly for most classes below A Level, is not the same as what makes a good teacher in your average public or grammar school, which is often high enough subject knowledge to prepare most pupils for entrance to Oxbridge and Russell group universities ultimately. Or excellence in music and sport and coaching to that standard
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    HYUFD said:

    Many private school teachers would give up teaching rather than teach in the average comp, plenty have Phds and could be academic researchers in universities or the private sector instead for example
    On the whole you do a PhD with the primary aim of being an "academic researcher', for which it's the obvious preparation, not of being a teacher, to which it's almost entirely irrelevant. So it's unlikely that many of the PhDs who have ex hypothesi taken up teaching as a fallback are going to be reingested into academia.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,154
    Cicero said:

    Ok Tories, you seriously think they will win the next General Election? Really? Really, hand on heart? I appreciate Labour are not loved, and neither is Reform or the Lib Dems for that matter, but the negatives on the Tories are just way to high for a quick recovery It is delusional to think that all it needs is to "keep buggering on". Unless you press the reset button, there is no historical precedent for a Tory recovery to power in a single Parliament- that's a statement of fact, not of opinion or a wish.
    You're right, I do think the Tories deserve oblivion, but I've been beaten too many times to have anything other than an ultra realist view of the shiftless sods. So feel free to cheer on the empty shell of dead right wing populism if you like, but the world is moving on.
    The self indulgent wank of the last government was a total disgrace and a gimmicky, childish, abject failure. Keep playing that game and you will lose, and rightly so. So feel free to keep listening to "non experts", to columnists or self appointed pundits. Much good it will do you.
    I don’t think the Tories will win the next election however they “can”. To rule out the possibility is to have completely ignored what happened since 2019 and someone as bright as you would surely not do so unless completely blinkered by hatred.

    They are super unlikely to win however we have no idea what will happen economically, politically, geopolitically, personally to Starmer, what will happen with the Tories under new leadership, and so to make such forthright predictions is confusing the wish with reality.

    “ there is no historical precedent for a Tory recovery to power in a single Parliament” you are right, until it happens. Just because it hasn’t happened before, strangely it doesn’t mean it cannot ever happen.
  • boulay said:

    I don’t think the Tories will win the next election however they “can”. To rule out the possibility is to have completely ignored what happened since 2019 and someone as bright as you would surely not do so unless completely blinkered by hatred.

    They are super unlikely to win however we have no idea what will happen economically, politically, geopolitically, personally to Starmer, what will happen with the Tories under new leadership, and so to make such forthright predictions is confusing the wish with reality.

    “ there is no historical precedent for a Tory recovery to power in a single Parliament” you are right, until it happens. Just because it hasn’t happened before, strangely it doesn’t mean it cannot ever happen.
    There isn't while Reform are gaining a significant portion of the right wing votes.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Nigelb said:

    My daughter has taught in both.
    Your generalisation is utter balls.
    When HYUFD's magisterial pronouncements collide with a reader with first hand knowledge of the matter the pronouncement tends to come off worse
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,321
    HYUFD said:

    What makes a good teacher in your average comp, namely being able to control a class mainly for most classes below A Level, is not the same as what makes a good teacher in your average public or grammar school, which is often high enough subject knowledge to prepare most pupils for entrance to Oxbridge and Russell group universities ultimately. Or excellence in music and sport and coaching to that standard
    Have you ever been inside an average comp?
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 982
    Leon said:

    It is indeed bleak. On the “upside” the Israelis have made menacing noises like this, before - and done nothing. Hezbollah is a much more potent enemy than Hamas. So maybe it will fizzle out

    However it is hard for them to ignore a missile strike like this and if they don’t crush Hezbollah it means northern Israel could become uninhabitable
    Isreal is gunning for this. They want it
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,011
    boulay said:

    Bugger, you posted what I was getting at in a much pithier and more effective way.
    Tories and Reform... nah. Reform is ghastly.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,844
    HYUFD said:

    Under FPTP that remains the main alternative in most seats, plenty thought Thatcher a mad rightwing loon in 1975 too. Jenrick isn't even that rightwing, he backed Remain in 2016 for example before backing Brexit once Leave won
    Your party offer nothing to practically any voter, hence getting absolutely demolished. If Jenrick is the answer you've asked the wrong question.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728
    Nunu5 said:

    Isreal is gunning for this. They want it
    We are about to find out


    “I can't overstate this:

    The Middle East is now potentially hours away from the most devastating war in its bloody history.

    A Israel-Hezbollah war would likely yield a shocking number of fatalities and destruction.

    The US knew this day would come. Our leaders have failed.”

    https://x.com/jschanzer/status/1817285466120745425?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,127
    edited July 2024
    HYUFD said:

    What makes a good teacher in your average comp, namely being able to control a class mainly for most classes below A Level, is not the same as what makes a good teacher in your average public or grammar school, which is often high enough subject knowledge to prepare most pupils for entrance to Oxbridge and Russell group universities ultimately. Or excellence in music and sport and coaching to that standard
    Are you aware that some people from average comps make it to a top university? For example - me. I was one of about 8, including one who went to Cambridge.

    The ability to control a class correlates closely with having very high subject knowledge and an engaging style. For example, setting my head on fire with methane bubbles or using a pupil as a target for the laws of motion.

    FWIW is my teacher friend just handed her notice in after 7 years. Complete burnout, recipient of numerous awards etc for working with Ukrainian and Afghan refugees. 1st in Maths + an MSc.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,513
    Leon said:

    We are about to find out


    “I can't overstate this:

    The Middle East is now potentially hours away from the most devastating war in its bloody history.

    A Israel-Hezbollah war would likely yield a shocking number of fatalities and destruction.

    The US knew this day would come. Our leaders have failed.”

    https://x.com/jschanzer/status/1817285466120745425?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
    Obvious and ridiculous hyperbole.

    Now an Israel-Iran war might do so.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,033
    HYUFD said:

    As Trump is constitutionally barred from a third term as far as he is concerned there isn't, he just needs to get his delayed second term and then he can finish the job of sorting America out
    You're giving Trump the benefit of the doubt.
    Why? He's telling us what he's going (to try) to do, believe him.
    Last time Pence wasn't prepared to go against the constitution (thanks Dan Quayle), next time Vance has already said he would.
    "We'll have it fixed so good you're not going to have to vote"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE7xoHJkgvE
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,137
    HYUFD said:

    Jenrick studied history at Cambridge it was Braverman who studied law. Jenrick only did a gdl law conversion course at the College of Law.

    Indeed not one of the Tory leadership contenders, Jenrick, Cleverly, Braverman, Badenoch, Patel or Tugendhat went to Oxford let alone studied PPE.

    So whoever wins the only main party leader left who studied PPE at Oxford once Sunak steps down will be Ed Davey
    Mel Stride did PPE at Oxford.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    How about DTjnr?
    Donald Trump, Jr. has barely enough brain waves to power a toaster FAR less than his daddy even; Ivanka is far smarter, which is why she is MUCH less MAGA.

    Counter argument of course is George Bush the Elder > George Bush the Younger. BUT think that's exception that proves the rule, that POTUS dynasties are exceedingly exceptional.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    HYUFD said:

    Under FPTP that remains the main alternative in most seats, plenty thought Thatcher a mad rightwing loon in 1975 too. Jenrick isn't even that rightwing, he backed Remain in 2016 for example before backing Brexit once Leave won
    Jenrick backs whatever he thinks will get him further up the greasy pole. His problem is not ideaology, it is such a lack of ideaology/beliefs including personal morals or any sense of duty beyond that to himself, that he is an utterly empty vessel, interested only in further agrandisement and power for its own sake.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,660

    Mel Stride did PPE at Oxford.
    Something of a longshot, don’t you think ?
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024

    Obvious and ridiculous hyperbole.

    Now an Israel-Iran war might do so.
    I would have thought so until they managed to turn Gaza into Stalingrad. Two fronts won't end well.

    We are learning fast that current technology favours the weaker side disproportionately when they are defending from advances.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728

    Obvious and ridiculous hyperbole.

    Now an Israel-Iran war might do so.
    Yes, I concur. Whatever happens it is highly unlikely to match the 1-2 million dead in Iran-
    Iraq

    However it has the terrifying potential to drag in multiple states
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,877
    boulay said:

    I don’t think the Tories will win the next election however they “can”. To rule out the possibility is to have completely ignored what happened since 2019 and someone as bright as you would surely not do so unless completely blinkered by hatred.

    They are super unlikely to win however we have no idea what will happen economically, politically, geopolitically, personally to Starmer, what will happen with the Tories under new leadership, and so to make such forthright predictions is confusing the wish with reality.

    “ there is no historical precedent for a Tory recovery to power in a single Parliament” you are right, until it happens. Just because it hasn’t happened before, strangely it doesn’t mean it cannot ever happen.
    I don't think Tories have shown the slightest curiosity into why they are in such a disastrous situation, or even much awareness that they are in this situation, let alone think about how they might get out of it.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022

    I would have thought so until they managed to turn Gaza into Stalingrad. Two fronts won't end well.
    The question is what do you do?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001
    edited July 2024
    Eabhal said:

    Are you aware that some people from average comps make it to a top university? For example - me. I was one of about 8, including one who went to Cambridge.

    The ability to control a class correlates closely with having very high subject knowledge and an engaging style. For example, setting my head on fire with methane bubbles or using a pupil as a target for the laws of motion.

    FWIW is my teacher friend just handed her notice in after 7 years. Complete burnout, recipient of numerous awards etc for working with Ukrainian and Afghan refugees. 1st in Maths + an MSc.
    Nearly 20% of independent school teachers have Oxbridge degrees, around 5% of state school teachers have Oxbridge degrees.

    Over half of all independent school teachers went to Russell Group universities compared to 40% in state schools
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Teaching-by-Degrees-1.pdf.

    61% of independent school teachers and 56% of grammar school teachers got a 1st or 2.1 degree. 54% of comprehensive/academy school teachers got a 2.2 or a 3rd or Pass degree and 77% of secondary modern/high school teachers got a 3rd or pass degree
    https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/teacherqual-1.pdf
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,660
    I don’t think he’s going to get it, but this is a pretty good article on Buttigieg’s VP chances, which gives some idea of how the process works.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/28/pete-buttigieg-longshot-vp-harris-00171515
    … “He’s a veteran, he knows his shit, he’s our best communicator,” Gluesenkamp Perez told POLITICO. “He and I don’t agree on everything, but that’s gonna be the case with anyone she picks.”

    Rep. Don Beyer of Virginia, the first member of Congress to endorse Buttigieg for president, told POLITICO he is also backing Buttigieg.

    “I’m sure they’re thinking about battleground states, although it hasn’t been since 1960 that a vice president helped actually take their particular state,” Beyer said in an interview of the Harris campaign. “So it’s not clear that putting [North Carolina Gov.] Roy Cooper on the ticket would help you win North Carolina or that Josh [Shapiro] helps you in Pennsylvania, but I’m not subject to their research. I do know, just as a person with extraordinary political skills, a good reputation, well liked, and done a great job as secretary of Transportation, Pete would bring a lot to the ticket.”

    There are more quotidian reasons Buttigieg could continue to accelerate in the process. The Democratic Party is expected to hold a roll call vote on a running mate by Aug. 7, and the sheer mechanics of introducing a nominee could mean the pick could come as early as this week. That means a rapidly accelerated vetting process could favor Buttigieg...
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,979
    HYUFD said:

    Under FPTP that remains the main alternative in most seats, plenty thought Thatcher a mad rightwing loon in 1975 too. Jenrick isn't even that rightwing, he backed Remain in 2016 for example before backing Brexit once Leave won
    If the LDs get back to the 18% of the Ashdown era, never mind the 22% of the Kennedy/Clegg era, the Tories are finished.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,513
    Nigelb said:

    Don Jnr was the idiot who picked/vetted him.
    I suspect Jnr has all sorts of personal issues.

    As does Vance.

    Both for understandable reasons.

    But it can affect decisions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001

    Your party offer nothing to practically any voter, hence getting absolutely demolished. If Jenrick is the answer you've asked the wrong question.
    Well you didn't even vote Tory in 2019 so obviously you will say that
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 857
    Nigelb said:

    I don’t think he’s going to get it, but this is a pretty good article on Buttigieg’s VP chances, which gives some idea of how the process works.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/28/pete-buttigieg-longshot-vp-harris-00171515
    … “He’s a veteran, he knows his shit, he’s our best communicator,” Gluesenkamp Perez told POLITICO. “He and I don’t agree on everything, but that’s gonna be the case with anyone she picks.”

    Rep. Don Beyer of Virginia, the first member of Congress to endorse Buttigieg for president, told POLITICO he is also backing Buttigieg.

    “I’m sure they’re thinking about battleground states, although it hasn’t been since 1960 that a vice president helped actually take their particular state,” Beyer said in an interview of the Harris campaign. “So it’s not clear that putting [North Carolina Gov.] Roy Cooper on the ticket would help you win North Carolina or that Josh [Shapiro] helps you in Pennsylvania, but I’m not subject to their research. I do know, just as a person with extraordinary political skills, a good reputation, well liked, and done a great job as secretary of Transportation, Pete would bring a lot to the ticket.”

    There are more quotidian reasons Buttigieg could continue to accelerate in the process. The Democratic Party is expected to hold a roll call vote on a running mate by Aug. 7, and the sheer mechanics of introducing a nominee could mean the pick could come as early as this week. That means a rapidly accelerated vetting process could favor Buttigieg...

    I also don't think he'll get it, but he and Shapiro are the two I'm green on.

    I think he's gonna get something someday though.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024
    Leon said:

    Yes, I concur. Whatever happens it is highly unlikely to match the 1-2 million dead in Iran-
    Iraq

    However it has the terrifying potential to drag in multiple states
    There are claims that it was a wayward Israeli Iron Dome missile (fired due to a Hezbollah attack on Mount Hermon military base nearby) that caused the deaths and the victims were Druze Arab Children.

    The Iran Iraq war had peculiarly little international impact for such a long and bloody war.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,785
    HYUFD said:

    Well you didn't even vote Tory in 2019 so obviously you will say that
    I don't see Jenrick's electoral appeal. I just think people will see him as a poisonous Tory boy. He same some of the right things but I don't think he's the right person it this time to say them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001

    I don't see Jenrick's electoral appeal. I just think people will see him as a poisonous Tory boy. He same some of the right things but I don't think he's the right person it this time to say them.
    Starmer doesn't have much charisma or electoral appeal either unlike Blair in 1997, Boris was well ahead of him in 2021, by 2024 he was just not Corbyn and not the Tories.

    So any Tory leader will likely have a more effective time in opposition than Hague did once Starmer has to make unpopular decisions as PM
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001
    edited July 2024

    If the LDs get back to the 18% of the Ashdown era, never mind the 22% of the Kennedy/Clegg era, the Tories are finished.
    On neither count they aren't as most of the LD increase would likely come from Labour as it did then, boosting the Tories in Tory v Labour marginals under FPTP as it did in 2005
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,660
    Interesting race developing at Spa.
    I don’t know quite how Hamilton managed to be leading the race, but impressive stuff from him.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,339
    edited July 2024

    This is the nightmare the Tories have to face into. They *know* they are right. They *know* that Rwanda would have worked. But the voters largely disagree and disagree in very large numbers.

    They need policies that appeal to people younger than 70. And until they realise that their existing ideas are shit, they will fail. Aspiration. Sound finances. Business. How on earth have they managed to bin off all those values?
    Back to the central mystery.

    To believe the cheerleaders, Rwanda was ready to go and bound to deter. After all that politics, all that money, the government was this close to sending people to Africa and solving the problem.

    And then Rishi called an election, putting the scheme on ice and then in the morgue. Why?

    (My theory is that it was a twisted fantasy that wouldn't have worked in reality and wasn't really set up to work. But as a suburban science teacher in the state sector, what do I know about anything?)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,621

    I would have thought so until they managed to turn Gaza into Stalingrad. Two fronts won't end well.

    We are learning fast that current technology favours the weaker side disproportionately when they are defending from advances.
    In no way does Gaza = Stalingrad. Stalingrad saw over a million Russian cassulties, and the capture and destruction of the German 6th army. How many Israelis have died fighting their Stalingrad? How many Gazans?
    There are no winners here, but as a comparison, that’s utter hyperbole, and totally wrong.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728
    Nasty people on TwiX are claming that anyone with an IQ under 100 - 50% of the population - cannot understand the concept of “per capita”, no matter how hard they try

    If true, this seems to include quite a few major journalists
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001
    @benrileysmith
    🇬🇧 Exclusive 🇪🇸

    Keir Starmer discussed a free movement deal for young people with the Spanish prime minister earlier this month.

    Pedro Sánchez proposed a deal in private talks on July 18 at Blenheim. Starmer said he’d take the idea away
    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1817308730456944805
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,137
    Nigelb said:

    Something of a longshot, don’t you think ?
    Perhaps but Mel Stride has declared an interest which is more than some.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,321
    Leon said:

    Nasty people on TwiX are claming that anyone with an IQ under 100 - 50% of the population - cannot understand the concept of “per capita”, no matter how hard they try

    If true, this seems to include quite a few major journalists

    "if true"

    are you really unable to figure out if it's true or not?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,649
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting race developing at Spa.
    I don’t know quite how Hamilton managed to be leading the race, but impressive stuff from him.

    He should cancel his move to Ferrari.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814


    Absolutely sick of this shit
    Out of interest, what is it about conflicts involving the only majority Jewish nation on earth that so vexes you, against say those ongoing in Yemen, Somali, Sudan, Burma or the Maghreb?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting race developing at Spa.
    I don’t know quite how Hamilton managed to be leading the race, but impressive stuff from him.

    He got Perez at the first corner, and Lerclerc on Lap 3 with DRS.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,660

    Perhaps but Mel Stride has declared an interest which is more than some.
    He’s my Jim Hacker candidate, so I’m rooting for him.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,345
    Musky Baby taking the evangelical line... ;)

    "Unless there is more bravery to stand up for what is fair and right, Christianity will perish"

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1817273263761817710

    Personally, I'd strongly argue that 'fair' and 'right' have been conspicuously absent from Christianity over the centuries.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    He should cancel his move to Ferrari.
    He needs to bring his race engineer and a couple of strategists with him.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,785

    Back to the central mystery.

    To believe the cheerleaders, Rwanda was ready to go and bound to deter. After all that politics, all that money, the government was this close to sending people to Africa and solving the problem.

    And then Rishi called an election, putting the scheme on ice and then in the morgue. Why?

    (My theory is that it was a twisted fantasy that wouldn't have worked in reality and wasn't really set up to work. But as a suburban science teacher in the state sector, what do I know about anything?)
    There was going to be a VONC.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    Musky Baby taking the evangelical line... ;)

    "Unless there is more bravery to stand up for what is fair and right, Christianity will perish"

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1817273263761817710

    Personally, I'd strongly argue that 'fair' and 'right' have been conspicuously absent from Christianity over the centuries.

    https://x.com/zubymusic/status/1817208915928518675?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    “Most smart atheists I know have been approaching this conclusion over the past few years.

    Christianity is the West's immune system.

    As a believer, it's far more than that. But as a sociocultural observer, it's obvious a great house can't stand if you destroy its foundations.”
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,454
    Stokes showing how its done in the T20, checks notes, Test Match....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,345
    Sandpit said:

    He needs to bring his race engineer and a couple of strategists with him.
    Hamilton timed his move to Mercedes perfectly. I see no reason atm to think he's made a mistake now. We don't know what he saw in Ferrari's offering for the 2025 cars and beyond.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,649
    Sandpit said:

    He needs to bring his race engineer and a couple of strategists with him.
    And Adrian Newey should join Ferrari.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,001

    Musky Baby taking the evangelical line... ;)

    "Unless there is more bravery to stand up for what is fair and right, Christianity will perish"

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1817273263761817710

    Personally, I'd strongly argue that 'fair' and 'right' have been conspicuously absent from Christianity over the centuries.

    Christianity may be in decline in Europe and much of the West but then most Western nations and most of Europe are in population decline too with below replacement level birthrates.

    Christianity is growing fastest in Africa where the birthrate and population growth is also now the highest on earth
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,660
    Sandpit said:

    He got Perez at the first corner, and Lerclerc on Lap 3 with DRS.
    I know how it happened, but not quite how he made it happen - in a car which they didn’t expect much of this weekend.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,589

    Back to the central mystery.

    To believe the cheerleaders, Rwanda was ready to go and bound to deter. After all that politics, all that money, the government was this close to sending people to Africa and solving the problem.

    And then Rishi called an election, putting the scheme on ice and then in the morgue. Why?

    (My theory is that it was a twisted fantasy that wouldn't have worked in reality and wasn't really set up to work. But as a suburban science teacher in the state sector, what do I know about anything?)
    As an offshore processing hub, Rwanda may have worked, and been legal. You wouldn't have been able to hang out in London making money cash in hand. But as planned, it was performative idiocy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,345
    moonshine said:

    https://x.com/zubymusic/status/1817208915928518675?s=46&t=Vp6NqNN4ktoNY0DO98xlGA

    “Most smart atheists I know have been approaching this conclusion over the past few years.

    Christianity is the West's immune system.

    As a believer, it's far more than that. But as a sociocultural observer, it's obvious a great house can't stand if you destroy its foundations.”
    Nah. I love the 'smart atheists' bit: the usual bullshit than anyone who agrees with me is smart, whilst getting a dig at anyone who dares to disagree. Generally, when someone writes that, they're writing b/s. Especially when it is the first thing said in a statement.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,844
    .
    HYUFD said:

    Well you didn't even vote Tory in 2019 so obviously you will say that
    Its *the voters* who said that, not me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,649
    Nigelb said:

    He’s my Jim Hacker candidate, so I’m rooting for him.
    I tipped him at 75s.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,454
    edited July 2024
    Stokes is batting like that Peter Kay John Smiths advert where he belts the football way off the pitch...HAVE IT...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,649
    Leon said:

    Nasty people on TwiX are claming that anyone with an IQ under 100 - 50% of the population - cannot understand the concept of “per capita”, no matter how hard they try

    If true, this seems to include quite a few major journalists

    Covid showed journalists struggled with numbers.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,339
    Nigelb said:

    He’s my Jim Hacker candidate, so I’m rooting for him.
    In which case, which candidate will:

    a) split the party in a month
    b) split the party in a week
    c) be forced to step aside due to rumours of horizontal jogging?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,454

    Covid showed journalists struggled with numbers.
    Struggle...you are being too generous.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728
    edited July 2024
    Les Purges
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814

    Nah. I love the 'smart atheists' bit: the usual bullshit than anyone who agrees with me is smart, whilst getting a dig at anyone who dares to disagree. Generally, when someone writes that, they're writing b/s. Especially when it is the first thing said in a statement.
    Thanks for such an erudite and considered reply on whether a society can maintain a sufficiently strong moral base without a religion to underpin it. “BS”.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728
    kamski said:

    "if true"

    are you really unable to figure out if it's true or not?

    There will be an IQ level at which the concept of “per capita” will be impossible to grasp for someone with limited intelligence. Is that 100, tho? I have my doubts. I’d guess ~90
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728

    Covid showed journalists struggled with numbers.

    It really did - especially the concept of “exponentiality”

    This is an ineradicable flaw in democracy. A lot of people are so stupid they really shouldn’t be voting. However, I guess we have the “wisdom of crowds” as a countervailing force. Somehow people en masse are smarter than individuals
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,660
    edited July 2024
    Russell might yet win this.
    Last couple of laps will be tasty.

    Especially with Piastri flying.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,649
    Nigelb said:

    Russell might yet win this.
    Last couple of laps will be tasty.

    Piastri.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,454
    Leon said:


    It really did - especially the concept of “exponentiality”

    This is an ineradicable flaw in democracy. A lot of people are so stupid they really shouldn’t be voting. However, I guess we have the “wisdom of crowds” as a countervailing force. Somehow people en masse are smarter than individuals
    I don't get the feeling they reflected on this weakness and did something about it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Grandstand finish coming up in the F1.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,499
    edited July 2024

    Jenrick backs whatever he thinks will get him further up the greasy pole. His problem is not ideaology, it is such a lack of ideaology/beliefs including personal morals or any sense of duty beyond that to himself, that he is an utterly empty vessel, interested only in further agrandisement and power for its own sake.

    You could say that about virtually any successful politician of the last 30 years: Starmer, Cameron, Clegg, Blair, etc. etc. etc.

    Jenrick fits right into the current governing class and I predict a triumphant future for him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,649
    Leon said:


    It really did - especially the concept of “exponentiality”

    This is an ineradicable flaw in democracy. A lot of people are so stupid they really shouldn’t be voting. However, I guess we have the “wisdom of crowds” as a countervailing force. Somehow people en masse are smarter than individuals
    It's more than.

    Robert Peston wasn't the only one who couldn't understand why if we tested more that confirmed cases would also rise.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,660

    Piastri.
    Slightly too far back, I think.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Six laps to go, and Russell’s eight seconds ahead of Piastri. His worst case is now 2nd. Inspired call to stay out.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,454
    edited July 2024

    It's more than.

    Robert Peston wasn't the only one who couldn't understand why if we tested more that confirmed cases would also rise.
    Highlight was hin getting schooled not once, but twice by JVT, after dropping his keen amateur science bollocks.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,533
    DRS is truly awful.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728

    Highlight was hin getting schooled not once, but twice by JVT, after dropping his keen amateur science bollocks.
    JVT failed to grasp, early on, that masks are quite effective in stopping the spread - they don’t protect the wearer, they protect those around the wearer, and vice versa

    A pretty basic logic test. And he flunked

    I don’t think any of the boffins in the covid campaign covered themselves with glory, any more than the politicians (with the notable and honourable exception of those involved in the creation, funding and distribution of the vax)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,513

    I would have thought so until they managed to turn Gaza into Stalingrad. Two fronts won't end well.

    We are learning fast that current technology favours the weaker side disproportionately when they are defending from advances.
    We were repeatedly told that there would be hundreds of Israeli dead every week in Gaza.

    In reality Israeli casualties have been close to trivial.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,728

    We were repeatedly told that there would be hundreds of Israeli dead every week in Gaza.

    In reality Israeli casualties have been close to trivial.
    Hezbollah would be entirely different. Well armed and well trained and with lots of guns and missiles - and direct help from Iran

    The last time Israel tackled Hezbollah it was a bloody score draw. Could be even worse for Israel this time - unless the USA intervenes. And therein is the danger - this turns into a US-Iran war
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,954
    Fishing said:

    You could say that about virtually any successful politician of the last 30 years: Starmer, Cameron, Clegg, Blair, etc. etc. etc.

    Jenrick fits right into the current governing class and I predict a triumphant future for him.
    They were good at hiding their ambition. Jenrick is not.

    It's quite clear to anyone with half a brain that the only thing Robert Jenrick believes in is Robert Jenrick.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,454
    Stokes demonstrating again why he is England best ever allrounder.
  • According to BBC website, best powerplay in Test history

    72 runs off the first 6 overs
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    What a finish!
This discussion has been closed.