Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Stopping the supermajority Scotland style – politicalbetting.com

124»

Comments

  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Cicero said:

    i think this poll could be the final nail in Goodwin`s rather thin credibility,
    That poll is going to reflect the composition of their panel, most of whom will have learned of PeoplePolling thanks to the prominence that company is given while they are watching Farage-ramping GB News, because Goodwin's company gets precious little publicity elsewhere. Weighting can filter out some of that panel bias, but not all of it. That also assumes that Goodwin is a dispassionate polling professional, that is that he is inclined to seek out the most effective weighting scheme to remove as much bias as possible.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Andy_JS said:

    The 8 Reform seats with the latest UKElect forecast

    Barnsley North
    Barnsley South
    Clacton
    Dudley
    Great Yarmouth
    Hornchurch & Upminster
    Romford
    South Baslldon & East Thurrock

    Barnsley North has been disowned so 7 Reform plus an indy
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,266
    edited July 2024
    Sean_F said:

    I’ve bet £50 on the Conservatives winning 100-149, at 9/4. £50 on the Conservatives winning 150-199, at 11/2. £25 on Bob Blackman retaining Harrow East at 3/1.

    To add to Kinabalu's hall of infamy, I've got old bets on Con most seats and against Lab majority :open_mouth: But traded those out, helped by a depths of Truss -> limited peaks of Sunak trade, so those are only costing me ~£25.

    Otherwise I've got bets of Con 100-149 and 150-199, for Sunak to keep his seat (Binface splits the anti-Con vote :lol:), against Corbyn winning (part traded out, so green either way but more so if he loses), on Lab for Rochdale (small profit available there at present but I'm keeping the bet I think) and Bristol C (with an eye to a trade, but odds haven't moved - likely a reasonable value loser so I may well trade if there's a chance to).

    Con 100-199 I'm well up overall, even with the -£25 from the old bets. Outwith 100-199 I need Corbyn to lose, Rishi to win and one of Rochdale and Bristol C to come in to be about even (or other combinations of that).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,344
    This is cool, astounding Battle of Tsushima vibe.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/1805547829068239205
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824

    Yes, mixing a delicate, beautiful flavour of lobster with – er – cheese is a culinary nonsense.

    The dish deserves to be resigned to the annals of history.
    Quite so. It's one of the weird cul de sacs of French cuisine, and it should stay there, ignored and broken down at the end of a gastronomic side road
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,272

    Not surprising. It must be fiendishly difficult.

    Especially as anyone working in a lot of places (eg public sector) will have in the back of their mind that if they say Reform and get doxxed, they will be in hot water.

    Not saying it is remotely likely that pollsters will dox them. But once you get in the habit of not telling strangers (or untrusted aquaintences) you are planning to vote Fargle, you won't switch out of that mode if a pollster cold calls you or emails you.

    Probably one reason Reform are a bit higher with Yougov. If you have taken the positive step to register you are probably less likely (but not wholly unlikely) to be reticent.

    Remember the couple that had foster children removed frpm their care because they were UKIP members?
    In my experience Reform voters are anything but shy about expressing their opinions..

    I have bet on low Reform vote share. A lot are blowhard who won't actually vote, and many of the rest will actually vote Con.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295

    Barnsley North has been disowned so 7 Reform plus an indy
    I think it would technically go down in the books as a Reform win because you can't alter the ballot paper, as we know.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    edited July 2024
    IanB2 said:

    If they were clever they should put through STV in local elections, harmonising with Scotland and NI, and helping to stem the inevitable councillors losses which they’ll experience in the midterm locals, win a second term, and then sort out our voting system before they get thrown out.
    But of course Labour won't because they're as wedded to FPTP as the Tories (perhaps more so) SKS will be just sit on his majority and defend it with his life (until FPTP takes it away)
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    Leon said:

    Weirdly, on my last but one visit to France I bought a couple of pigeon in Leclerc and cooked them in my Airbnb

    They were absolutely delicious - and easy to cook. First time I've ever cooked them, went perfectly

    We should sell them in Britain, it's absurd we don't eat pigeon, there's not exactly a lack
    Some of us do. But we shoot our own for eating.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Andy_JS said:

    I think it would technically go down in the books as a Reform win because you can't alter the ballot paper, as we know.
    True that!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,327
    Interesting on WATO. Sarah Montague holds Kendall 's feet to the policy flame while allowing Andrew Griffiths to slag off the Labour Party.

    Carla Denyer channelling Mel Stride's super majority strategy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559
    edited July 2024
    Cicero said:

    If.

    TBH, it is pretty clear that he is not fishing in the same water as any other pollster.
    As the in house RefUk pollster, he should now simply be dismissed as letting his bias give his results.
    Perhaps the BPC might take an interest?
    The pollsters have not herded and come Friday, some will have explaining to do.

    But could it be there is a rational explanation - that their polling panels have been infiltrated to the extent they give a skewed result? If a bunch of signed up "Conservatives" were actually Reform all along, that would give a narrative that there was a big swing to Reform, when in fact it was a limited number of social media savvy Reformers giving an unrepresentative result.

    And then there is the possible malign influence of Putin's mischief-makers. Are polling firms smart enough to spot if their panels have been manipulated by an external algorithm? I dunno, but most of those abusing computer systems are smarter than the people who devised the systems in the first place.

    I just throw it out there as a possibility.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,713
    Scott_xP said:

    I think this is right. Anything 'you shot yourself" is probably posh (unless it's a dog)

    Hugo Rifkind has a recent article in The Times on pretty much exactly this point, and it is also a main theme of his novel
    For sure although you need to take a look at some shoot participants these days.

    But I think you can say that certain places attract posh people ergo the food there is posh.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,131
    Ghedebrav said:

    I suspect the value is in backing the Tories in some constituencies, at this stage.
    The Tories had better win my childhood seat of Sevenoaks, since I have a lot on at 1/3. Although not nearly as much as I should have; bets like that don’t come along very often.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,131
    TimS said:

    I don't think any Lib Dem wins are good value. The odds already imply an extremely good night.
    I agree. Except most elections, at least pre-coalition, they managed to pull off a surprise win - like Redcar. And I expect that to be true this time. But guessing where it might be is a mugs game, without some inside info.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,272
    edited July 2024
    Incidentally, I believe Sunak on sandwiches. He isnt just short, he is skinny with it. He just doesn't care much about food, fasts once a week, breakfasts on a few nuts, and lives off full fat Coke. So a sandwich probably does seem a meal to him.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Some of us do. But we shoot our own for eating.
    I do, though other folk do it for me.

    My mother had a schoolfriend who was married to a local gamekeeper, so we had grouse on occasion, too.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,108

    Galloway's man up north somewhere withdrew after his son was beaten up a couple of days ago.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/workers-party-candidate-halts-campaign-after-son-is-beaten-up/ar-BB1pkAnU
    Sutton Coldfield not Glsgow/Liverpool/London/great Yarmouth....
  • DeclanFDeclanF Posts: 42
    Nigelb said:

    A Decision of Surpassing Recklessness in Dangerous Times

    https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/a-decision-of-surpassing-recklessness-in-dangerous-times

    ...The Supreme Court’s decision, however, does not come decontextualized in a casebook. And it is not, however much the justices of the majority may pretend otherwise, about the presidency in the abstract. Of course, it also affects the presidency in the abstract—and all future presidents who wield its powers. But this is a case about a particular man in interaction with the presidency. And those actions are not all in the past tense.

    It is a case in which the Supreme Court was asked whether it wanted to enable Trump’s avowed authoritarianism in a future presidency by disabling his prosecution for crimes committed in his prior presidency.

    It is, in other words, about some very immediate—and very non-hypothetical—dangers.

    And it comes at a very specific political moment: Trump is currently leading in most polls. According to Nate Silver’s forecast, Trump has a 71 percent chance of winning the election in November. That chance is only 51 percent if you prefer the 538 forecast. But he’s the current front-runner by any reasonable measure. His opponent’s campaign is in no small turmoil following Joe Biden’s disastrous performance in last week’s debate. Trump is, in short, the single most likely person in the world to wield the powers of the American presidency come Jan. 20, 2025.

    He is also a convicted criminal—no small matter when one is writing a “rule for the ages” about prospective presidential impunity, as Justice Neil Gorsuch put it during oral arguments. The court majority may flatter itself that it’s staying out of politics. But this is a fairy tale the justices are telling themselves—if they are, in fact, telling themselves this pleasant little tale. In fact, they are handing a powerful immunity to an adjudged felon who may be about to assume “the executive power” of the United States, and they are doing it by corroding—and perhaps rendering impossible—accountability for his past crimes.

    There’s another sense in which the Supreme Court has failed here: It has articulated a set of standards for presidential immunity that are utterly opaque. The most fundamental job of an appellate court, even when it’s articulating an objectionable principle, is to give actionable guidance to lower courts. The Court in this case has not done this. Reading the opinion alongside the indictment, it is completely unclear how to apply it to the instant case along a number of different axes and with respect to a number of different allegations...


    Read the whole article if you are in any doubt about the court's judgment.
    It is an excellent step by step examination of just how bad it is.

    The SC justices were appointed by Trump to give him this untrammelled power. And he will use it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,670
    This is the point at which I may begin placing shortish constituency bets 'because that looks interesting', so probably time to shut down for 24 hours.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,307
    edited July 2024
    GIN1138 said:

    If Con survive this election, eventually FPTP will see them come back and Labour collapse. What FPTP gives it can take away just as easily and Labour would do well to remember that when they take office (but of course they won't because governments with large majorities never do - Look at the Conservatives after winning 80 seat majority)

    Of course that's a big if because there comes a point with FPTP where the damage probably isn't survivable and that point would probably be Lib-Dems becoming the official Opposition.
    I think that’s right and I do think that if we do get a weird result tomorrow (let’s say LDs second in seats on 10% of the vote - perhaps 4th on vote share), then I wouldn’t be surprised if that becomes the moment the country turns more widely against FPTP (nothing against the Lib Dems there, just stating a fact that the optics will be odd).

    I also wouldn’t be surprised to see a bit of constitutional invention at things like PMQs. The 6 LOTO questions might be shared out among each of the opposition parties for instance. It’s the speakers call at the end of the day but I’m not sure we would just expect a parliament of say 480 Labour MPs and say 70 LDs, 60 Tories and 40 others to operate in the same way as we have been used to it operating before.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824
    TOPPING said:

    For sure although you need to take a look at some shoot participants these days.

    But I think you can say that certain places attract posh people ergo the food there is posh.
    I did have excellent grouse at Wilton's, the one time I went there. Grouse is great and I can see why people rave about it. Most game is delicious

    Jugged hare!

    THAT's what Sunak should have said. "Favourite meal- jugged hare. No question. But it needs to be cooked in its own blood"

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,713

    Some of us do. But we shoot our own for eating.
    There should be a huge mass market for game, which would obviate the need for some of the practices that occur at some shoots but until they solve the shot problem you can't have Mrs Smith breaking her teeth on her Sunday Dinner.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    Stocky said:

    So how can the die-hard remainers be so emotionally attached to a trading block? It must be those tentacles.
    Emotionally attached to the sort of Britain that wants to be constructive and influential in its own continent.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,131

    Some of us do. But we shoot our own for eating.
    Cat can be a bit chewy, though.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,920
    edited July 2024

    That poll is going to reflect the composition of their panel, most of whom will have learned of PeoplePolling thanks to the prominence that company is given while they are watching Farage-ramping GB News, because Goodwin's company gets precious little publicity elsewhere. Weighting can filter out some of that panel bias, but not all of it. That also assumes that Goodwin is a dispassionate polling professional, that is that he is inclined to seek out the most effective weighting scheme to remove as much bias as possible.
    If the applicants are biased towards current support of RefUK through self-selection that is going to be quite difficult to filter out by other means. And if not filtered out, it will result in an overestimate of switching to RefUK both from previous Tory voters and from previous Labour voters. Which would be consistent with the differences in those figures above from the figures of most other pollsters.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    This is cool, astounding Battle of Tsushima vibe.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/1805547829068239205

    Never thought I'd see the day when a RN vessel was named for a Marxist boffin. Even Mr Churchill couldn't get a dreadnought named for O. Cromwell.

    TBF PMB was a major contributor to winning WW2 in developing operational research.
  • ukelectukelect Posts: 140

    Barnsley North has been disowned so 7 Reform plus an indy
    "Which candidates have been disowned" doesn't yet feature in the UK-Elect forecasting algorithm. Perhaps it should! :smile:
  • tryhardertryharder Posts: 2
    Leon said:

    Wow, if that verifies then Reform are well placed to overtake the Tories, comprehensively, in 2028, and possibly win the next election
    If labour are only on 36% now as a new government and reform truly are on 20% with the public finances in the state they are labour will quickly become more unpopular once they unleash tax rises and wokeness upon us - then the rise of reform will only continue to ascend and yes I agree they could indeed win the next election . Anecdotally my daughter and her boyfriend (young twenties) are both non political and unprovoked are talking about voting reform tomorrow so they aren’t just appealing to “oldies”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,137
    @Samfr
    It's done

    I've finished previewing every seat in the country.

    All 650 in this post, with my final predictions.

    It's 77,000 words long.

    I need a lie down.

    (£/free trial)

    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1808481527765844290
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    TOPPING said:

    There should be a huge mass market for game, which would obviate the need for some of the practices that occur at some shoots but until they solve the shot problem you can't have Mrs Smith breaking her teeth on her Sunday Dinner.
    It's actually not that nice is the problem. Reared pheasant invariably has globs of yellow fat under the skin. Roast chicken is greatly preferable.
  • Foxy said:

    In my experience Reform voters are anything but shy about expressing their opinions..

    I have bet on low Reform vote share. A lot are blowhard who won't actually vote, and many of the rest will actually vote Con.
    This rings true to me. My friends that have spoken up in favour of reform are very unlikely to vote. It is a bit “pox on all their houses” type stuff. I suspect that is also true of the people I used to go to school with who are talking up Farage’s crew on Facebook. Although clearly this is just anecdote.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    ukelect said:

    "Which candidates have been disowned" doesn't yet feature in the UK-Elect forecasting algorithm. Perhaps it should! :smile:
    Yeah, come on, upgrade that software!!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,131
    edited July 2024
    tryharder said:

    If labour are only on 36% now as a new government and reform truly are on 20% with the public finances in the state they are labour will quickly become more unpopular once they unleash tax rises and wokeness upon us - then the rise of reform will only continue to ascend and yes I agree they could indeed win the next election . Anecdotally my daughter and her boyfriend (young twenties) are both non political and unprovoked are talking about voting reform tomorrow so they aren’t just appealing to “oldies”
    Hi Nigel. Welcome to PB. Campaign all wrapped up?
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Leon said:

    Quite so. It's one of the weird cul de sacs of French cuisine, and it should stay there, ignored and broken down at the end of a gastronomic side road
    Weirdly sans culotte name for a posh dish too. I just looked it up on Wikipedia and sadly it dates from 1890s not 1790s, I liked to imagine Robespierre tucking in to it
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,163
    eek said:

    Goodwin is either reaching a set of people other pollsters aren't reaching or his methodology is wrong. I suspect it's the latter but in this election I haven't got a clue, I think a lot of people aren't bothered.
    He's using someone else's online panel, so he can't be reaching a different sample than all the other pollsters, unless he's using a pollster who isn't producing their own voting intention polls.

    So it's something in the methodology. Either the weighting, or the questions. I've looked briefly and nothing in the data tables particularly jumped out at me.
  • kinabalu said:

    Emotionally attached to the sort of Britain that wants to be constructive and influential in its own continent.
    As opposed to the sort of Britain that wants to be constructive and influential across the entire planet?

    Many pro-EU people like to mock Brexit supporters as "little Englanders" but there's quite a few erstwhile Remainers who remain "little Europeaners". There's a big wide world out there beyond our own little continent.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,131
    Scott_xP said:

    @Samfr
    It's done

    I've finished previewing every seat in the country.

    All 650 in this post, with my final predictions.

    It's 77,000 words long.

    I need a lie down.

    (£/free trial)

    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1808481527765844290

    Here’s his bottom line:

    Labour: 445 (+247)

    Conservative: 98 (-276)

    Liberal Democrat: 62 (+54)

    SNP 16 (-32)

    Sinn Fein 7 (=)

    DUP 6 (-2)

    Green 3 (+2)

    Reform 3 (+3)

    Plaid Cymru 3 (+1)

    Alliance 2 (+1)

    SDLP 2 (=)

    UUP 1 (+1)

    Independent 1 (+1)

    Speaker 1 (=)
  • PJHPJH Posts: 815
    Andy_JS said:

    The 8 Reform seats with the latest UKElect forecast

    Barnsley North
    Barnsley South
    Clacton
    Dudley
    Great Yarmouth
    Hornchurch & Upminster
    Romford
    South Baslldon & East Thurrock

    Romford would be a major surprise. As far as I can tell Reform have not been campaigning at all. Just the vapid free postal delivery.

    I have seen one Reform poster this week in Upminster.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    edited July 2024
    tryharder said:

    If labour are only on 36% now as a new government and reform truly are on 20% with the public finances in the state they are labour will quickly become more unpopular once they unleash tax rises and wokeness upon us - then the rise of reform will only continue to ascend and yes I agree they could indeed win the next election . Anecdotally my daughter and her boyfriend (young twenties) are both non political and unprovoked are talking about voting reform tomorrow so they aren’t just appealing to “oldies”
    I do agree Labour/SKS will very quickly become unpopular but when the votes go when Labour's coalition of voters disintegrates remains to be seen.

    I would think Reform is the least likely place for is to go, with Lib-Dems and possibly the Conservatives (depending on whats left of Con in the smoldering ruins on Friday morning) more likely to benefit when Labours inevitable collapse takes place.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,397
    Carnyx said:

    Never thought I'd see the day when a RN vessel was named for a Marxist boffin. Even Mr Churchill couldn't get a dreadnought named for O. Cromwell.

    TBF PMB was a major contributor to winning WW2 in developing operational research.
    I hadn't heard of him. I love the fact that Oppenheimer tried to poison him with an apple. Shades of another Cambridge graduate and genius who did die by eating a poisoned apple?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Blackett
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,131
    edited July 2024
    Scott_xP said:

    @Samfr
    It's done

    I've finished previewing every seat in the country.

    All 650 in this post, with my final predictions.

    It's 77,000 words long.

    I need a lie down.

    (£/free trial)

    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1808481527765844290

    And here’s his predictions in tabular form, accessible without having to sign up to the seven day free then £ trial

    https://jonskeet.uk/election2024

    By clicking the individual seat links on the right, you can get back to a little bit of extra commentary, again avoiding having to sign up
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,713

    It's actually not that nice is the problem. Reared pheasant invariably has globs of yellow fat under the skin. Roast chicken is greatly preferable.
    What do you mean by "reared pheasant". Pheasants that run around "free range" at will until they are blasted out of the sky, you mean? They are fantastic and the fat gives flavour.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,559
    kinabalu said:

    Emotionally attached to the sort of Britain that wants to be constructive and influential in its own continent.
    If the EU had wanted us to be part of that, they could have worked constructively with Cameron. Instead...
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 857

    I'd guess conference in October is when they'd want to crown their new leader. That was the plan when David Cameron resigned but withdrawals by Boris and Andrea Leadsom meant Theresa May was in place, and Cameron out, weeks earlier.

    ETA speaking of Dowden, then subject to the good voters of Hertsmere, he will be taking on Angela Rayner in the first PMQs as the Prime Minister will be at a Nato summit.
    2025 or later at 36 feels like a value loser to me. I think I'll try to join you at 40.
  • GIN1138 said:

    I do agree Labour/SKS will very quickly become unpopular but when the votes go when Labour's coalition of voters disintegrates remains to be seen.

    I would think Reform is the least likely place for is to go, with Lib-Dems and possibly the Conservatives (depending on whats left of Con in the smoldering ruins on Friday morning) more likely to benefit with Labours inevitable collapse takes place.
    I think the idea that Labour are going to be rapidly unpopular is as foolish as the idea that Cameron's Tories would be rapidly unpopular and then out of power for a generation.

    Labour will have a honeymoon and for a few years any hard choices/bad news the public are likely to blame on the Tories for "leaving a mess" rather than blame Labour.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,344
    If they weren't such rsoles I'd suggest Mr & Mrs Mercer need an intervention.

    https://x.com/Otto_English/status/1808459820497838276
  • IanB2 said:

    Here’s his bottom line:

    Labour: 445 (+247)

    Conservative: 98 (-276)

    Liberal Democrat: 62 (+54)

    SNP 16 (-32)

    Sinn Fein 7 (=)

    DUP 6 (-2)

    Green 3 (+2)

    Reform 3 (+3)

    Plaid Cymru 3 (+1)

    Alliance 2 (+1)

    SDLP 2 (=)

    UUP 1 (+1)

    Independent 1 (+1)

    Speaker 1 (=)
    Reasonable prediction.

    Reform 3 more than they deserve but it could be right. Hopefully its higher than they get.

    I think Labour might get a few more, Lib Dems a few less. Tories sounds about right.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,948
    TOPPING said:

    What do you mean by "reared pheasant". Pheasants that run around "free range" at will until they are blasted out of the sky, you mean? They are fantastic and the fat gives flavour.
    Well they run around free range at will for about a week or so after being released from the henhouses they were raised and fattened in.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,812
    DeclanF said:

    The SC justices were appointed by Trump to give him this untrammelled power. And he will use it.
    "Don Corleone, we come to you because you have the judges, like so many nickels, in your coat pocket."
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,713
    TimS said:

    Well they run around free range at will for about a week or so after being released from the henhouses they were raised and fattened in.
    A week or so? What are you talking about?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    I hadn't heard of him. I love the fact that Oppenheimer tried to poison him with an apple. Shades of another Cambridge graduate and genius who did die by eating a poisoned apple?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Blackett
    Also important (well his unit was, I forget who did what) in optimising antisubmarine tactics and the like: basic stuff such as the depth setting for depth-charges was tweaked with remarkable effect.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    TOPPING said:

    What do you mean by "reared pheasant". Pheasants that run around "free range" at will until they are blasted out of the sky, you mean? They are fantastic and the fat gives flavour.
    For about 4 months they do. I eat pheasant both from commercial shoots and wild bird only family setups (which is how they have done it at Sandringham for decades). The difference is like farmed Vs rod caught salmon.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824
    edited July 2024
    IanB2 said:

    Here’s his bottom line:

    Labour: 445 (+247)

    Conservative: 98 (-276)

    Liberal Democrat: 62 (+54)

    SNP 16 (-32)

    Sinn Fein 7 (=)

    DUP 6 (-2)

    Green 3 (+2)

    Reform 3 (+3)

    Plaid Cymru 3 (+1)

    Alliance 2 (+1)

    SDLP 2 (=)

    UUP 1 (+1)

    Independent 1 (+1)

    Speaker 1 (=)
    That's pretty much identical to my OFFICIAL LEONDAMUS PREDICTION of two days ago

    The big variable is Reform, no one knows if they will get 8% or 18%
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    TimS said:

    Well they run around free range at will for about a week or so after being released from the henhouses they were raised and fattened in.
    Not my experience in Wiltshire.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 959
    Has the removal company be ordered for Downing Street yet?.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Scott_xP said:

    @Samfr
    It's done

    I've finished previewing every seat in the country.

    All 650 in this post, with my final predictions.

    It's 77,000 words long.

    I need a lie down.

    (£/free trial)

    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1808481527765844290

    I've subscribed.
  • Nigelb said:

    That makes even less sense to me.
    I literally have no idea of the point you are making.
    The fiji coup came after the ethnic Indian community reached 49% and the ethnic Fijian was 46%.

    The result was discriminatory election rules that kept ethnic Fijians in power.

    They were chucked out of the commonwealth but allowed back some years later when the discriminatory laws went (which they were happy to do when enough ethnic Indians emigrated).

    Ethnic indians are now only 37.5 of the population. Ethnic Fijians are now 56.8%.

    The root of the US culture wars is that, similar to Fiji, demographic change is seeing the ethnic Northern European majority getting smaller and smaller and heading towards being a minority.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,156

    If they weren't such rsoles I'd suggest Mr & Mrs Mercer need an intervention.

    https://x.com/Otto_English/status/1808459820497838276

    She’s an absolute entitled horror.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Foxy said:

    In my experience Reform voters are anything but shy about expressing their opinions..

    I have bet on low Reform vote share. A lot are blowhard who won't actually vote, and many of the rest will actually vote Con.
    Based on Ukip/BP performance over the last decade or so, that sounds sensible. There remains the option that this election will be different. Agree with your punt, but not so much that I'd put money on it myself.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205
    MattW said:

    This is the point at which I may begin placing shortish constituency bets 'because that looks interesting', so probably time to shut down for 24 hours.

    Not at all. Surely now is the time when shortish bets are most likely to come off, when there is hardly any time left to change voters' minds.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,713

    For about 4 months they do. I eat pheasant both from commercial shoots and wild bird only family setups (which is how they have done it at Sandringham for decades). The difference is like farmed Vs rod caught salmon.
    Yes around four months. Them's the breaks. Not a week or two. And a huge number avoid getting shot and live out the rest of the lives before succumbing one way or another to predators or Volkswagen Golfs. I'm not sure what a "wild bird only" family set up is but the way pheasants are traditionally reared on shoots satisfies my requirements for free range.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,160

    For about 4 months they do. I eat pheasant both from commercial shoots and wild bird only family setups (which is how they have done it at Sandringham for decades). The difference is like farmed Vs rod caught salmon.
    Mad that we have four pheasant experts on here
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012

    Because the PB Tories have been highlighting, for a considerable time, the combined Ref/Con vote as the potential Con vote in the election. Ha Ha!
    There is genuine interest in combination party votes for all sorts of reasons. It all depends of course what you want to know or achieve. A problem with LLG v C/Ref is that like is not being compared with like. LLG excludes the extreme left, while C/Ref includes the extreme right.

    Politically a useful but perhaps unattainable figure is Social and liberal democrats v Various extremists and authoritarians.

    That is, most Lab, most usually Tory voters, all LDs, most SNP and PC and some Greens v Jezza style Labour, Reform, Braverman Tory, George, extreme Greens, SWP etc and assorted loonies.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,682

    NEW THREAD

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    I think the idea that Labour are going to be rapidly unpopular is as foolish as the idea that Cameron's Tories would be rapidly unpopular and then out of power for a generation.

    Labour will have a honeymoon and for a few years any hard choices/bad news the public are likely to blame on the Tories for "leaving a mess" rather than blame Labour.
    There's a couple of reasons I think Labour will very quickly fall into unpopularity.

    1. Cameron was much more popular than SKS. People forget now, but David Cameron's personal ratings were often very good during his time as LOTO. He was far more popular than his party and actually came to power with quite a strong personal vote. The reverse is true for Labour/SKS.

    2. I think there has been a deliberate connivance between Labour and the voters to not think very much about what happens when Labour takes office. At the moment everyone who just wants the Conservatives gone are putting whatever hopes, dreams and expectations they have on Labour but as the saying goes, to govern is to choose and there are going to be a lot of people who are unhappy with Labour's choices in a couple of years, IMO.

    I could be wrong of course. It will certainly be interesting to see how long Labour can keep their coalition of voters together.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,824

    I think the idea that Labour are going to be rapidly unpopular is as foolish as the idea that Cameron's Tories would be rapidly unpopular and then out of power for a generation.

    Labour will have a honeymoon and for a few years any hard choices/bad news the public are likely to blame on the Tories for "leaving a mess" rather than blame Labour.
    I disagree, voters are much more volatile and polarised now, and also easy to radicalise online - in different directions

    We see this pattern across the western world, and Britain is not exceptional

    Labour WILL get a honeymoon, but I reckon it will be 12-18 months, and then anger will return
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    boulay said:

    She’s an absolute entitled horror.
    Yes but did you call her a prostitute in the personal ads in the Plymouth Herald? Yes or no? YES OR NO?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,713
    Eabhal said:

    Mad that we have four pheasant experts on here
    Never forget the PB demographic.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,137

    Not my experience in Wiltshire.

    Nor mine in Warwickshire
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Leon said:

    That's pretty much identical to my OFFICIAL LEONDAMUS PREDICTION of two days ago

    The big variable is Reform, no one knows if they will get 8% or 18%
    It's quite close to the MRP Averages so far as I could make them out
    Labour 451
    Con 94
    LD 57
    SNP 23
    Reform 3
    Green 2
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,205

    If the EU had wanted us to be part of that, they could have worked constructively with Cameron. Instead...
    Perhaps, but remember David Cameron wasted a lot of time being told repeatedly by Angela Merkel that she did not run the EU and he should negotiate directly with Brussels or work through the European Parliament.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,108
    edited July 2024
    Pulpstar said:

    Bets:

    +ve cashout value

    Labour Wolverhampton West £200 @ 1-7
    Reform Barnsley South £15 @ 8-1

    Neutral

    Reform Washington & Gateshead South £5 @ 14-1
    Con seats 150 - 199 + £80.36
    200 - 249 +£66.64
    Anything else -£12.00

    Slightly underwater

    Con Over 140 seats +£29.40
    Con under -£10


    My book:

    +ve
    Con 100-149
    LDem Tewkesbury x 2
    Green Herefordshire N
    Lab Basildon
    LDem Epsom & Ewell
    LDem Exmouth and Exeter East (star performer - thanks for the tip!)


    neutral
    Con 150-199 (2nd)
    Alliance Lagan Valley
    Con Clacton - for the LOLs
    SNP in ANME (sorry, RP)
    Lab Alloa & Grangemouth
    SNP most seats in Scotland (only last night)

    -ve
    Con 150-199 (1st)
    Con IoW West

    Current net cash out +£75

    Plaudits to Bet 365 who let you have 100% cashout if no significant odds movement, even 2-3 weeks after laying a bet. I've done that a couple of times.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Pulpstar said:

    It's quite close to the MRP Averages so far as I could make them out
    Labour 451
    Con 94
    LD 57
    SNP 23
    Reform 3
    Green 2
    I don't think the Tories will do quite as badly as this when the votes are counted.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,948
    edited July 2024
    TOPPING said:

    Yes around four months. Them's the breaks. Not a week or two. And a huge number avoid getting shot and live out the rest of the lives before succumbing one way or another to predators or Volkswagen Golfs. I'm not sure what a "wild bird only" family set up is but the way pheasants are traditionally reared on shoots satisfies my requirements for free range.
    My mistake. I just notice them all suddenly surging into the fields and woods during the growing season and lots of them end up on my vineyard where they develop a penchant for ripe grapes. Last season they ate every single one of the grape bunches (but it wasn't a commercial cropping year fortunately).
  • BobSykesBobSykes Posts: 46

    Reasonable prediction.

    Reform 3 more than they deserve but it could be right. Hopefully its higher than they get.

    I think Labour might get a few more, Lib Dems a few less. Tories sounds about right.
    What a 6 weeks it has been. I started out as a classic but obviously seriously pissed off One Nation Tory, thinking I'd have waited until October but nevertheless looking forward to seeing the party rebuild in opposition for 5 years whilst Labour effs it up instead, and thinking 150 seats was absolute nightmare scenario, 200 would be amazing. Now I'm looking at 98 as almost 'bite your hand off' territory. I think it will be lower.

    It's almost heartbreaking to see what's about to unfold and how unutterbly stupid it is that two right of centre parties could well get close to 40% here yet Labour will get slightly less and have a 250/300 majority possibly.

    Madness.

    It's also rather galling that even though I vote Tory (party) tomorrow with a bigger peg on nose than usual, my fear remains that henceforth I could be completely disenfranchised with no peg big enough for future polls. Over my dead body will I ever vote for a Farage led rabble.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,670
    edited July 2024

    2025 or later at 36 feels like a value loser to me. I think I'll try to join you at 40.
    There's another strange market about Angela Rayner being Labour Deputy Leader at the next General Election. I'm not sure how that works, really; Betfair games going on, I think, which are beyond my ken.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.227695405
  • eekeek Posts: 29,739
    BobSykes said:

    What a 6 weeks it has been. I started out as a classic but obviously seriously pissed off One Nation Tory, thinking I'd have waited until October but nevertheless looking forward to seeing the party rebuild in opposition for 5 years whilst Labour effs it up instead, and thinking 150 seats was absolute nightmare scenario, 200 would be amazing. Now I'm looking at 98 as almost 'bite your hand off' territory. I think it will be lower.

    It's almost heartbreaking to see what's about to unfold and how unutterbly stupid it is that two right of centre parties could well get close to 40% here yet Labour will get slightly less and have a 250/300 majority possibly.

    Madness.

    It's also rather galling that even though I vote Tory (party) tomorrow with a bigger peg on nose than usual, my fear remains that henceforth I could be completely disenfranchised with no peg big enough for future polls. Over my dead body will I ever vote for a Farage led rabble.
    Except the Tory party aren't going to be near 40% - if lucky they will get 25% but many polls have them at 20% or worse.

    And we really won't know whether it's 25% or 19% until tomorrow night.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    BobSykes said:

    What a 6 weeks it has been. I started out as a classic but obviously seriously pissed off One Nation Tory, thinking I'd have waited until October but nevertheless looking forward to seeing the party rebuild in opposition for 5 years whilst Labour effs it up instead, and thinking 150 seats was absolute nightmare scenario, 200 would be amazing. Now I'm looking at 98 as almost 'bite your hand off' territory. I think it will be lower.

    It's almost heartbreaking to see what's about to unfold and how unutterbly stupid it is that two right of centre parties could well get close to 40% here yet Labour will get slightly less and have a 250/300 majority possibly.

    Madness.

    It's also rather galling that even though I vote Tory (party) tomorrow with a bigger peg on nose than usual, my fear remains that henceforth I could be completely disenfranchised with no peg big enough for future polls. Over my dead body will I ever vote for a Farage led rabble.
    Farage/Reform might be about to ensure the government is led by a staunch remainer and a party that wanted to cancel Brexit becomes it's main Opposition.

    It's a funny old world, lol!
  • BobSykesBobSykes Posts: 46
    eek said:

    Except the Tory party aren't going to be near 40% - if lucky they will get 25% but many polls have them at 20% or worse.

    And we really won't know whether it's 25% or 19% until tomorrow night.
    Tory + Ref will be. That's what I meant.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    If they weren't such rsoles I'd suggest Mr & Mrs Mercer need an intervention.

    https://x.com/Otto_English/status/1808459820497838276

    That reminds me. A quick check suggests that the Walt WAr has ended in stalemate (and it was pretty dodgy Mr M commenting on a services veteran given he's still Minister for Veterans, whatever the other rights and wrongs).
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    Eabhal said:

    Mad that we have four pheasant experts on here
    I have eaten game all my life, and sorry to disagree but the idea that there is a difference between reared and "wild pheasant" is for the birds (pun intended). There are very few genuine wild pheasants, except in parts of the fens. These tend to be smaller. The "reared" birds are left to acclimatise for considerable periods and forage and fly around for considerable time from when they are released as poults. Some may overseason from one to the next. These will have long spurs and maybe best to put in a game pie. They all are, whatever the antis/detractors say, essentially wild. The yellow fat is a function of what the birds eat. I have seen this on fenland wild birds. If they have access to maize either through feeders or finding it in farmed fields, this will be the outcome.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,774

    This is cool, astounding Battle of Tsushima vibe.

    https://x.com/NavyLookout/status/1805547829068239205

    Built in the Netherlands.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,792
    Leon said:

    That's pretty much identical to my OFFICIAL LEONDAMUS PREDICTION of two days ago

    The big variable is Reform, no one knows if they will get 8% or 18%
    Is that the same Leodamis who predicted that half the population was going to die from Covid, that aliens were going to reveal themselves to us all imminently and that Putin was certain to push the nuclear button? Or maybe a different one?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,774
    DeclanF said:

    The SC justices were appointed by Trump to give him this untrammelled power. And he will use it.
    If he's re-elected, he'll (at the very leat) appoint Alito and Thomas's replacements.
    So a majority of the Court.

    What odds on Eileen Cannon ?
  • tryhardertryharder Posts: 2
    edited July 2024

    I think the idea that Labour are going to be rapidly unpopular is as foolish as the idea that Cameron's Tories would be rapidly unpopular and then out of power for a generation.

    Labour will have a honeymoon and for a few years any hard choices/bad news the public are likely to blame on the Tories for "leaving a mess" rather than blame Labour.
    I don’t think the Labour honeymoon will last too long especially if they are seen to fail / surrender on immigration and combined with public spending constraints / higher taxes and woke policies they will soon going from having currently unenthusiastic support to becoming a voting public that has serious buyers remorse . The electorate are only focussed on getting rid of the tories at present , I don’t think they have great enthusiasm or love for Sir Kier .
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,255
    TOPPING said:

    There should be a huge mass market for game, which would obviate the need for some of the practices that occur at some shoots but until they solve the shot problem you can't have Mrs Smith breaking her teeth on her Sunday Dinner.
    True I suppose. We don't do mass shooting. In this area it is local farmers and friends doing 'walking up' and nothing gets shot that won't be eaten. Game - pigeon, pheasant, partridge and duck for the most part - is probably our most common meal for most winters. Pies and casseroles are my favourite.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,307
    Leon said:

    Sorry, are you claming he deliberately creates fake polls? That's quite the libellous accusation, and you should be careful, for the sake of PB's legal fees
    He's been accused of that (politely: it was a Lib who did the accusing and I was in the room at the time) and in fairness he rejects the accusation: he doesn't do the polls, one of his colleagues does, and given that so much of polling is subjective (eg weights) he's not really faking. I don't know if he's actually correct: we will find out in (checks clock) 31 hours and 32 minutes...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,774

    I hadn't heard of him. I love the fact that Oppenheimer tried to poison him with an apple. Shades of another Cambridge graduate and genius who did die by eating a poisoned apple?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Blackett
    This was excellent:
    ..On his first night at Magdalene College, Cambridge, he met Kingsley Martin and Geoffrey Webb, later recalling that he had never before, in his naval training, heard intellectual conversation. Blackett was impressed by the prestigious Cavendish Laboratory, and left the Navy to study mathematics and physics at Cambridge...

    Had his proposal to devote 1% of national income to overseas development found acceptance, the last half century might have been quite different.
    Would probably have benefited our economy in the long run, too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,774

    The fiji coup came after the ethnic Indian community reached 49% and the ethnic Fijian was 46%.

    The result was discriminatory election rules that kept ethnic Fijians in power.

    They were chucked out of the commonwealth but allowed back some years later when the discriminatory laws went (which they were happy to do when enough ethnic Indians emigrated).

    Ethnic indians are now only 37.5 of the population. Ethnic Fijians are now 56.8%.

    The root of the US culture wars is that, similar to Fiji, demographic change is seeing the ethnic Northern European majority getting smaller and smaller and heading towards being a minority.
    I was afraid you'd come up with some such nonsense.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,774
    TOPPING said:

    Yes around four months. Them's the breaks. Not a week or two. And a huge number avoid getting shot and live out the rest of the lives before succumbing one way or another to predators or Volkswagen Golfs. I'm not sure what a "wild bird only" family set up is but the way pheasants are traditionally reared on shoots satisfies my requirements for free range.
    But not your silly idea of "mass market".
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,192
    I see the Charity Commission has acted against Captain Tom Moore’s daughter. Apart from partygate this must be the most notorious case of Covid related wrongdoing.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy79q7ej49yo
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,307
    edited July 2024
    T-minus twenty-seven hours, forty-five mins to exit poll.

    You are now closer to 10pm Thursday than you were to 4pm yesterday.
This discussion has been closed.