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Stopping the supermajority Scotland style – politicalbetting.com

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  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,032
    sarissa said:

    Workers Party to get no seats at evens?
    Galloway's man up north somewhere withdrew after his son was beaten up a couple of days ago.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/workers-party-candidate-halts-campaign-after-son-is-beaten-up/ar-BB1pkAnU
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820
    Andy_JS said:

    Stratford-on-Avon, West Dorset, North Dorset, Harpenden, Melksham. Just a few.
    I don't think any Lib Dem wins are good value. The odds already imply an extremely good night.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,243
    algarkirk said:

    If there is a hurricane and tornado tomorrow likely big survivors are Tugendhat and Barclay, and not many others.
    Strangely on the Survation MRP Mordaunt survives. Not sure how that works.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,650
    algarkirk said:

    Goodwin:

    Labour 36%
    Reform 20%
    Conservatives 16%
    Lib Dems 10%
    Greens 9%
    SNP 4%

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1808464350283247653

    Well the message is crystal clear, isn't it.

    A vote for anybody except Farage is a vote for a superwoke borderless Marxist hellhole.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,668
    edited July 2024
    ukelect said:

    For those who didn't see it mentioned somewhere in the middle of the previous thread, the latest UK-Elect forecast has now been released at https://www.ukelect.co.uk/HTML/forecasts/20240703ForecastUK.html.

    It shows Labour 420 seats, Conservative 123, Liberal Democrat 57, SNP 16, Reform UK 8, Plaid Cymru 4, and Green 3, giving an overall Labour majority of 192. The forecast top three in every constituency can be found here: https://www.ukelect.co.uk/20240703ForecastUK/UKTop3Forecast.csv As with other forecasts, a lot of seats are predicted to have tiny majorities. Small adjustments to the polling data or methodology can make surprisingly big changes to the result, although never enough to either affect the overall result (a Labour majority of around 190 to 250 seats), or to match some of the more extreme MRP seat projections.

    Some people may also find the UK-Elect links page useful as it contains a lot of links to election related websites: https://www.ukelect.co.uk/HTML/links.html

    Sounds sensible.

    To remind I'm on Lab 38%, Cons 27%, Reform 10%, LibDems 14%, Green 5% = Lab 419 seats, Cons 121 = 188 seat majority.

    I feel vindicated that my SWAG coincides with the super-sophisticated UK Elect model!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,203
    Bets:

    +ve cashout value

    Labour Wolverhampton West £200 @ 1-7
    Reform Barnsley South £15 @ 8-1

    Neutral

    Reform Washington & Gateshead South £5 @ 14-1
    Con seats 150 - 199 + £80.36
    200 - 249 +£66.64
    Anything else -£12.00

    Slightly underwater

    Con Over 140 seats +£29.40
    Con under -£10


  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820

    But why are you rolling up separate parties into one?
    Because as we've discussed before it's remarkable how much closer those combined shares are across pollsters than the individual party totals. It filters out the noise. And there is, statistically, way more switching within those "blocs" than between them.

    During the campaign there has been a 2-3% swing away from LLG towards the right wing parties.
  • Cicero said:

    i think this poll could be the final nail in Goodwin`s rather thin credibility,
    I think its a calculated gamble from him. If the poll is wrong people forget about it. If hes right though he becomes the oracle of the campaign and his influence massively increases.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024
    I can see a slight issue with this....
    FPT

    It's the closest large trading block to the UK.
    If the EU had stuck to being a trading block like CPTPP instead of attempting to become an Empiric State, extending its tentacles into virtually every aspect of government, we would not have had a problem in the first place,

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,160
    viewcode said:

    Would The Leon Ex-Wife Manoeuvre assist?
    No he would like to vote rather than create a tall tale to regale to an adoring audience on an internet blog.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,668
    On topic

    If there was possibly a way I would 100% vote for Jason Beer to be PM. Plus if he wanted to run the country on his own perhaps Sam Stein as Chancellor and Ed Henry as everything else then so be it.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,956

    But why are you rolling up separate parties into one?
    Because the PB Tories have been highlighting, for a considerable time, the combined Ref/Con vote as the potential Con vote in the election. Ha Ha!
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024

    Because the PB Tories have been highlighting, for a considerable time, the combined Ref/Con vote as the potential Con vote in the election. Ha Ha!
    Reform is roughly 50/50 ex Conservative and Labour Core Voters, essentially the socially conservative wing of both parties previously represented by the likes of Frank Field and Bill Cash.

    Roughly 0% ex Libdem or Green.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,081
    edited July 2024

    Strangely on the Survation MRP Mordaunt survives. Not sure how that works.
    This misuse of MRPs must end. It's driving me nuts.

    (Not entirely your fault - the folk producing the MRPs are guilty of ramping their constituency level forecasts too)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    edited July 2024
    A lot of excitement among some at the thought of Ed Davey becoming leader of the opposition. I don't think people have thought this through at all. The polls suggest the Lib Dems will come comfortably 4th in vote share, they don't disagree that much with Labour and between them they will have maybe just over 50% of the vote share. It will be rocket fuel for the populist right and those who think the whole system needs to be shaken up. I would argue that there are increasingly influential voices on the younger 'right' who might even consider it the ideal scenario from which to launch another people's revolt.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,185
    kamski said:

    Not sure if some of the Turkey players and fans are deliberately trying to make themselves unpopular in Germany, I really hope they get eliminated next round. A Germany vs Turkey final would be a nightmare.

    What have they been doing?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,203

    Reform is roughly 50/50 ex Conservative and Labour Core Voters.

    Roughly 0% ex Libdem or Green.
    2017 Labour or 2017 Tory -> 2019 Tory -> Reform.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,442
    Saying the quiet part out loud.

    Heritage Foundation president celebrates Supreme Court presidential immunity ruling: "We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be"
    https://x.com/mmfa/status/1808306913291260118
  • LloydBanksLloydBanks Posts: 45
    Stocky said:

    I've had a couple of quid at 50 on Steve Barclay next Tory leader (purely on @HYUFD posts).

    My largest bet on that market is Patel at 25/1 (bet placed a while ago).

    I like this. I have a few small-stake bets at odds between 50 and 150-1 on relatively sensible Tories who are likely to keep their seats - Coutinho, Trott and Williamson - with the intention of trading out post-Tory bloodbath
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,408

    I like this. I have a few small-stake bets at odds between 50 and 150-1 on relatively sensible Tories who are likely to keep their seats - Coutinho, Trott and Williamson - with the intention of trading out post-Tory bloodbath
    likewise.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,081
    TimS said:

    I don't think any Lib Dem wins are good value. The odds already imply an extremely good night.
    ANME. I think we should all share in the disappointment.
  • Pulpstar said:

    2017 Labour or 2017 Tory -> 2019 Tory -> Reform.
    Yes, the Tories forgot their majority in 2019 was purely down to Eurosceptic voters putting the country first by voting tactically for the Tories, not actually supporting the Tories (altough that might have come if they had played their cards right and not treated red wall MPs and constituents as embarrasing lower order Oiks to be humoured so long as they did'nt rock the boat and come up with too many ghastly ideas.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,276

    I can see a slight issue with this....
    FPT

    If the EU had stuck to being a trading block like CPTPP instead of attempting to become an Empiric State, extending its tentacles into virtually every aspect of government, we would not have had a problem in the first place,

    So how can the die-hard remainers be so emotionally attached to a trading block? It must be those tentacles.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820

    A lot of excitement among some at the thought of Ed Davey becoming leader of the opposition. I don't think people have thought this through at all. The polls suggest the Lib Dems will come comfortably 4th in vote share, they don't disagree that much with Labour and between them they will have maybe just over 50% of the vote share. It will be rocket fuel for the populist right and those who think the whole system needs to be shaken up. I would argue that there are increasingly influential voices on the younger 'right' who might even consider it the ideal scenario from which to launch another people's revolt.

    That is, though, a classic argument of the right. Left of centre parties mustn't dare be politically successful: that will provoke the far right. And if the left somehow has the temerity to assume power, they'd better do all the things the far right want because otherwise they'll really provoke the far right. And then they'll be sorry.

    I was seeing some of that here last night about Trump too. "Maybe the best result would be a Trump landslide because that way there's risk of unrest".

    It's the same attitude many have about Putin. Give him everything he wants or he might get cross.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,220
    Farooq said:

    "Empiric" :lol:
    Who wouldn't want a government relying solely on observation and experiment?

    Those who are all about gut, 'common sense' and feels I guess.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,905
    edited July 2024

    A lot of excitement among some at the thought of Ed Davey becoming leader of the opposition. I don't think people have thought this through at all. The polls suggest the Lib Dems will come comfortably 4th in vote share, they don't disagree that much with Labour and between them they will have maybe just over 50% of the vote share. It will be rocket fuel for the populist right and those who think the whole system needs to be shaken up. I would argue that there are increasingly influential voices on the younger 'right' who might even consider it the ideal scenario from which to launch another people's revolt.

    I agree. I think a healthier result would be for the Tories to remain the official opposition, and preferably for Reform to finish behind the Lib Dems in the popular vote.
  • Nigelb said:

    Saying the quiet part out loud.

    Heritage Foundation president celebrates Supreme Court presidential immunity ruling: "We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be"
    https://x.com/mmfa/status/1808306913291260118

    Basically like a giant version of what happened in Fiji.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,689

    Same absurd polling results too.
    Goodwin is either reaching a set of people other pollsters aren't reaching or his methodology is wrong. I suspect it's the latter but in this election I haven't got a clue, I think a lot of people aren't bothered.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,243
    Eabhal said:

    This misuse of MRPs must end. It's driving me nuts.

    (Not entirely your fault - the folk producing the MRPs are guilty of ramping their constituency level forecasts too)
    Hence my comment "Not sure how that works"
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,522
    kinabalu said:

    It's next door, yes. I give him about a 25% chance. Be surprised but not shocked if he won.
    I had Labour at the door for the fourth time about ten minutes ago, while Corbyn's lot have been round five times. Similar amounts of leaflets from each, too.

    Corbyn's been doing rallies at the weekends, which Labour haven't matched - but otherwise, the levels of effort don't seem to be too far apart.

    Your 25% chance for Corbyn feels about right to me - but it's worth noting that EC are now predicting a narrow Corbyn victory.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,277
    edited July 2024
    The polls pretty much agree on the Labour and LD shares. Where they don't agree is the Con and Ref shares.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 981
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1808464350283247653

    PP poll. Ok so they have reform second but their figures are not far off other pollsters.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    mwadams said:

    I hold no candle for the Lib Dems. But I absolutely don't go along with this "don't vote for the party whose values align with yours, because it might enflame the right". It smacks of appeasement.
    I wouldn't suggest people not vote for the party they want! All I'm saying is the Lib Dems as official opposition wouldn't probably be the ideal scenario some think it would be.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820
    mwadams said:

    I hold no candle for the Lib Dems. But I absolutely don't go along with this "don't vote for the party whose values align with yours, because it might enflame the right". It smacks of appeasement.
    The right wing have no such qualms. If there is a sniff of power and influence they will take it. Do they worry loudly about provoking the far left? I think not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566
    boulay said:

    lol, Yes, he was yearning to scream “Lobster Thermidor” and his team are miming desperately behind the questioner the act of eating a sandwich. Luckily none mimed eating a baguette as he could have interpreted that in a very unfortunate way.
    Lobster Thermidor isn't posh, it's weird, archaic and naff
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    Chris said:

    Allegedly, but the pork pie treat stuff would indicate that's as big a lie as any of his others.
    There was also some nonsense about his usual Nando’s order when he was attempting to cosplay a pleb earlier in the campaign.

    I can’t recall (ie don’t care about) the exact details but it was something like half a baby pheasant in extra mild peri-peri sauce and suckling snow leopard for mains with sides of chips and peas sprinkled with powdered rhinoceros horn, washed down with a bottle of alcohol-free Chablis, bottomless glasses of disability benefits claimants’ tears (free refills ftw!) and Fentiman’s cola for the girls.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,427

    Because the PB Tories have been highlighting, for a considerable time, the combined Ref/Con vote as the potential Con vote in the election. Ha Ha!
    Not me...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566
    Posh food now would likely be something Nordic or East European, with the all important "twist"

    Borscht with artisanal Borough sourdough and skyr

  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820

    I wouldn't suggest people not vote for the party they want! All I'm saying is the Lib Dems as official opposition wouldn't probably be the ideal scenario some think it would be.
    Don't worry, it's not going to happen.

    But if the Lib Dems did come in second then they bloody well should be the official opposition.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566
    algarkirk said:

    Goodwin:

    Labour 36%
    Reform 20%
    Conservatives 16%
    Lib Dems 10%
    Greens 9%
    SNP 4%

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1808464350283247653

    Wow, if that verifies then Reform are well placed to overtake the Tories, comprehensively, in 2028, and possibly win the next election
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,771

    I wouldn't suggest people not vote for the party they want! All I'm saying is the Lib Dems as official opposition wouldn't probably be the ideal scenario some think it would be.
    I'm sure you don't. But we see this argument promulgated by people who *do* make that suggestion, all the time.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024
    Andy_JS said:

    The polls pretty much agree on the Labour and LD shares. Where they don't agree is the Con and Ref shares.

    Not surprising. It must be fiendishly difficult.

    Especially as anyone working in a lot of places (eg public sector) will have in the back of their mind that if they say Reform and get doxxed, they will be in hot water.

    Not saying it is remotely likely that pollsters will dox them. But once you get in the habit of not telling strangers (or untrusted aquaintences) you are planning to vote Fargle, you won't switch out of that mode if a pollster cold calls you or emails you.

    Probably one reason Reform are a bit higher with Yougov. If you have taken the positive step to register you are probably less likely (but not wholly unlikely) to be reticent.

    Remember the couple that had foster children removed frpm their care because they were UKIP members?
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 981
    Nigelb said:

    Saying the quiet part out loud.

    Heritage Foundation president celebrates Supreme Court presidential immunity ruling: "We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be"
    https://x.com/mmfa/status/1808306913291260118

    That's quite worrying projection from them.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,385

    I think its a calculated gamble from him. If the poll is wrong people forget about it. If hes right though he becomes the oracle of the campaign and his influence massively increases.
    If.

    TBH, it is pretty clear that he is not fishing in the same water as any other pollster.
    As the in house RefUk pollster, he should now simply be dismissed as letting his bias give his results.
    Perhaps the BPC might take an interest?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,759

    I wouldn't suggest people not vote for the party they want! All I'm saying is the Lib Dems as official opposition wouldn't probably be the ideal scenario some think it would be.
    I think in the face of a majority of 200 or so, the amount of influence you have from being the second party is roughly equal to the amount of influence you have from being the third party and also roughly equal to zero.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,427

    ...

    Will the shy Tories be in enough numbers so that the planes will be flying to Rwanda next week?
    No. But the ELE joy espoused here will probably result in dreams crushed.

    Including a good number of wafer thin majorities, I'd be thinking the 150-199 seats band looks value.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566

    What a surprise that the Tories are FOUR POINTS below Reform in his final poll. Goodwin is an absolute clown. Does he really think that people don't see through him?

    Goodwin: Britain Bowtie Bob


    Sorry, are you claming he deliberately creates fake polls? That's quite the libellous accusation, and you should be careful, for the sake of PB's legal fees
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 913
    mwadams said:

    I hold no candle for the Lib Dems. But I absolutely don't go along with this "don't vote for the party whose values align with yours, because it might enflame the right". It smacks of appeasement.
    Also the problem is that FPTP has the potential to throw up results like this because it is not a proportional system. Indeed, its previous supporters claimed to support it because it delivered strong majorities. I don't understand why previously staunch supporters of FPTP have suddenly decided that it's selling point has become a huge problem. There must be a reason somewhere but I just can't see it!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,831
    Leon said:

    Wow, if that verifies then Reform are well placed to overtake the Tories, comprehensively, in 2028, and possibly win the next election
    Not trying to be nasty but you're talking about REF winning the 2033 election and given the way Farage had drank and smoked all his life will he even be alive then?
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Leon said:

    Lobster Thermidor isn't posh, it's weird, archaic and naff
    Tis lobster abuse
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,442
    .

    Basically like a giant version of what happened in Fiji.
    Not really.
    Fiji has quite the history of coups. The US right are openly talking of rewriting a constitution which has endured centuries, even through a bloody civil war, by force.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,427
    TimS said:



    The theme tune for this campaign should be “things will only get marginally better”.

    And that only briefly.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    mwadams said:

    I hold no candle for the Lib Dems. But I absolutely don't go along with this "don't vote for the party whose values align with yours, because it might enflame the right". It smacks of appeasement.
    Marginalising the right is not a good idea because it means they can promise the earth, safe in the knowledge that they never need to deliver, and are therefore perfect vehicles for sociopathic grifters like Nige.

    There are a number of quite possible outcomes tomorrow that could add considerable popular groundswell for electoral reform.
  • ukelectukelect Posts: 140
    TimS said:

    I don't think any Lib Dem wins are good value. The odds already imply an extremely good night.
    A lot of projected Lib Dem wins (and a few narrow misses) are tight three-way fights.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,083
    Leon said:

    Lobster Thermidor isn't posh, it's weird, archaic and naff
    It’s not posh indeed but is the sort of food that would trigger people as a perception of lobster being a food that is expensive and thus showing, once again, that he is out of touch.

    Rishi of course is not posh, just wealthy and well educated.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566
    GIN1138 said:

    Not trying to be nasty but you're talking about REF winning the 2033 election and given the way Farage had drank and smoked all his life will he even be alive then?
    No, the 2028 election. And I don't think Farage will be leader. Or - he shouldn't be. Reform need to find their Jordan Bardella
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Not really.
    Fiji has quite the history of coups. The US right are openly talking of rewriting a constitution which has endured centuries, even through a bloody civil war, by force.
    The Fiji Coup I am talking about is the 1987 one that happened after the Party representing ethnic Indians won the election and the native Fijians basically said tolerance for ethnics is one thing, letting them decide how the country is run is another matter.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,668
    Leon said:

    Posh food now would likely be something Nordic or East European, with the all important "twist"

    Borscht with artisanal Borough sourdough and skyr

    Nah that's hipster food. Posh food is something else.
  • ukelectukelect Posts: 140
    TimS said:

    Because as we've discussed before it's remarkable how much closer those combined shares are across pollsters than the individual party totals. It filters out the noise. And there is, statistically, way more switching within those "blocs" than between them.

    During the campaign there has been a 2-3% swing away from LLG towards the right wing parties.
    Probably a net flow of Labour voters to Reform
  • We’ll be watching Starmer in PMQs taking on LOTO Ed Davey and some people on here will still be saying “I think the Shy Tories might get them to 200+”
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 921
    mwadams said:

    I'm sure you don't. But we see this argument promulgated by people who *do* make that suggestion, all the time.
    It'll be hilarious if it happens a) they'll have been handed this by vote efficiency under FPTP with other parties potentially having a higher % of the overall vote, they may go wobbly about PR, b) their true political alignment will become clear rather than a local edit c) there'll be some absolute gems in the 50-60 additional LD MPs to rival Lembit Opik and others.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    TimS said:

    I don't think any Lib Dem wins are good value. The odds already imply an extremely good night.
    I suspect the value is in backing the Tories in some constituencies, at this stage.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450
    I’ve bet £50 on the Conservatives winning 100-149, at 9/4. £50 on the Conservatives winning 150-199, at 11/2. £25 on Bob Blackman retaining Harrow East at 3/1.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,831
    Leon said:

    No, the 2028 election. And I don't think Farage will be leader. Or - he shouldn't be. Reform need to find their Jordan Bardella
    Oh right, I thought you mean REF ovetaking the Tories in 2028 and winning the election after that.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    TimS said:

    That is, though, a classic argument of the right. Left of centre parties mustn't dare be politically successful: that will provoke the far right. And if the left somehow has the temerity to assume power, they'd better do all the things the far right want because otherwise they'll really provoke the far right. And then they'll be sorry.

    I was seeing some of that here last night about Trump too. "Maybe the best result would be a Trump landslide because that way there's risk of unrest".

    It's the same attitude many have about Putin. Give him everything he wants or he might get cross.
    Sorry that's a complete misunderstanding. The point is that in a democracy you ideally want a parliament that is broadly reflective of the country as a whole. Now we all know that FPTP is imperfect in that regard. But there comes a point at which credibility starts to be lost. I think a government and opposition with barely half the vote and in broad agreement in outlook would start to test that.

    I'm not saying Davey should turn the opportunity down. He could point out that the Lib Dems still favour PR. But it won't be even close to representative of the country and there ought to be a little unease about that.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820
    TOPPING said:

    Nah that's hipster food. Posh food is something else.
    Oh God we're going to have another argument about what posh means now.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,668
    boulay said:

    It’s not posh indeed but is the sort of food that would trigger people as a perception of lobster being a food that is expensive and thus showing, once again, that he is out of touch.

    Rishi of course is not posh, just wealthy and well educated.
    You can get Lobster Thermidor at Wiltons for £75 so that is certainly posh-adjacent.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,831

    We’ll be watching Starmer in PMQs taking on LOTO Ed Davey and some people on here will still be saying “I think the Shy Tories might get them to 200+”

    Can you imagine how dull a Sir Kier Vs Sir Ed PMQ's will be?

    #Snoozefest
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,450
    ukelect said:

    Probably a net flow of Labour voters to Reform
    Yes, not people who voted Labour in 2019, but Con voters from 2019, who were previously intending to vote Labour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,442
    Wow.
    So not only handing over their territory, but denying them the prospect of defending the bits they are allowed to keep.

    This would be an enforced surrender, not a deal.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/02/nato-second-trump-term-00164517
    ...A swift resolution of the two-and-a-half-year Ukraine conflict would also likely play a key role in Trump’s plans for NATO. As part of a plan for Ukraine that has not been previously reported, the presumptive GOP nominee is mulling a deal whereby NATO commits to no further eastward expansion — specifically into Ukraine and Georgia — and negotiates with Russian President Vladimir Putin over how much Ukrainian territory Moscow can keep, according to two other Trump-aligned national security experts...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,650
    edited July 2024
    AlsoLei said:

    I had Labour at the door for the fourth time about ten minutes ago, while Corbyn's lot have been round five times. Similar amounts of leaflets from each, too.

    Corbyn's been doing rallies at the weekends, which Labour haven't matched - but otherwise, the levels of effort don't seem to be too far apart.

    Your 25% chance for Corbyn feels about right to me - but it's worth noting that EC are now predicting a narrow Corbyn victory.
    Betfair has him about 2.5 now, I see. It is a tricky one to weigh up but that'd be some achievement to poll higher than his party in a supersafe seat. And Left Twitter are getting the excuses in early so ... But we'll see.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202

    I like this. I have a few small-stake bets at odds between 50 and 150-1 on relatively sensible Tories who are likely to keep their seats - Coutinho, Trott and Williamson - with the intention of trading out post-Tory bloodbath
    Williamson’s usual role in a Tory leadership contest is to act as a sort of Poundland Peter Mandelson-type figure (more Frank Spencer than Frank Underwood tbh) for the eventual winner in return for a temporary seat on the front bench.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820

    Sorry that's a complete misunderstanding. The point is that in a democracy you ideally want a parliament that is broadly reflective of the country as a whole. Now we all know that FPTP is imperfect in that regard. But there comes a point at which credibility starts to be lost. I think a government and opposition with barely half the vote and in broad agreement in outlook would start to test that.

    I'm not saying Davey should turn the opportunity down. He could point out that the Lib Dems still favour PR. But it won't be even close to representative of the country and there ought to be a little unease about that.
    The Lib Dems would almost certainly be under-represented in seats vs their vote share. But it's funny how the right are now loudly worrying about FPTP when it never remotely bothered them before. "Strong government"!

    For the last decade the SNP have been getting 2 automatic questions in PMQs and all the short money involved in being the third largest party on roughly 4% of the national vote.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,081
    GIN1138 said:

    Can you imagine how dull a Sir Kier Vs Sir Ed PMQ's will be?

    #Snoozefest
    Livened up by Farage in the 3rd party spot.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,083
    TOPPING said:

    You can get Lobster Thermidor at Wiltons for £75 so that is certainly posh-adjacent.
    Expensive and aspirational. Shepherd’s pie and green beans is more posh.

    Bentley v Volvo estate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566
    TOPPING said:

    Nah that's hipster food. Posh food is something else.
    Hipster is basically posh these days, cf Glastonbury. Only ancient people revere naff haute cuisine like "lobster thermidor"

    For old fashioned posh that is STILL posh I'd go for grouse or snipe or woodcock or venison you yourself shot dead, or wild salmon, or native oysters

    It would have been fun if Sunak had said "my favourite meal is a dozen Helford natives on the half shell, and then partridge with game chips, I try to eat it every day"
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820
    edited July 2024
    Nigelb said:

    Wow.
    So not only handing over their territory, but denying them the prospect of defending the bits they are allowed to keep.

    This would be an enforced surrender, not a deal.

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/02/nato-second-trump-term-00164517
    ...A swift resolution of the two-and-a-half-year Ukraine conflict would also likely play a key role in Trump’s plans for NATO. As part of a plan for Ukraine that has not been previously reported, the presumptive GOP nominee is mulling a deal whereby NATO commits to no further eastward expansion — specifically into Ukraine and Georgia — and negotiates with Russian President Vladimir Putin over how much Ukrainian territory Moscow can keep, according to two other Trump-aligned national security experts...

    Putin surely cannot believe his luck.

    Long term that all brings WW3 much closer. It's Sudetenland stuff.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,243
    GIN1138 said:

    Can you imagine how dull a Sir Kier Vs Sir Ed PMQ's will be?

    #Snoozefest
    With Davey unicycling/bungeeing/pogo-sticking/parachuting/surfing on a wave of effluent into the chamber each week? Never a dull moment :lol:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,277
    Matthew Goodwin: "Personally, I suspect Reform will win 1-3 seats, perhaps only one. "
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,076
    kinabalu said:

    Well that's incredible because I'm having hummus for lunch today. What are the odds?
    100%, since you have already decided.

    Betting on that sort of thing could get you into trouble!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566

    Tis lobster abuse
    Yes, it's a really overrated way to serve an often overrated shellfish

    I've had lobster loads, and it rarely lives up to its reputation - or price

    Weirdly, caviar DOES; it is exquisite
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,451
    Mr. S, prospect of 2027-28 Russian attack on the Baltics coinciding with the Chinese trying to retake Taiwan.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Leon said:

    Lobster Thermidor isn't posh, it's weird, archaic and naff
    Yes, mixing a delicate, beautiful flavour of lobster with – er – cheese is a culinary nonsense.

    The dish deserves to be resigned to the annals of history.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,046
    Leon said:

    For old fashioned posh that is STILL posh I'd go for grouse or snipe or woodcock or venison you yourself shot dead

    I think this is right. Anything 'you shot yourself" is probably posh (unless it's a dog)

    Hugo Rifkind has a recent article in The Times on pretty much exactly this point, and it is also a main theme of his novel
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,831
    edited July 2024
    TimS said:

    The Lib Dems would almost certainly be under-represented in seats vs their vote share. But it's funny how the right are now loudly worrying about FPTP when it never remotely bothered them before. "Strong government"!

    For the last decade the SNP have been getting 2 automatic questions in PMQs and all the short money involved in being the third largest party on roughly 4% of the national vote.
    If Con survive this election, eventually FPTP will see them come back and Labour collapse. What FPTP gives it can take away just as easily and Labour would do well to remember that when they take office (but of course they won't because governments with large majorities never do - Look at the Conservatives after winning 80 seat majority)

    Of course that's a big if because there comes a point with FPTP where the damage probably isn't survivable and that point would probably be Lib-Dems becoming the official Opposition.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Cicero said:

    If.

    TBH, it is pretty clear that he is not fishing in the same water as any other pollster.
    As the in house RefUk pollster, he should now simply be dismissed as letting his bias give his results.
    Perhaps the BPC might take an interest?
    We haven't even seen the actual result yet! He's a bit of an outlier and his role in being a pollster and also simultaneously boostering for Reform is a bit odd but let's get some perspective here. he's hardly miles away from the rest is he?

    Compared to the polling average that Sean Fear helpfully put below he has the Tories -5 and Reform +4.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,076

    What a surprise that the Tories are FOUR POINTS below Reform in his final poll. Goodwin is an absolute clown. Does he really think that people don't see through him?

    Goodwin: Britain Bowtie Bob


    ”Hello, this is Goodwin polling…will you be voting for this dynamic exciting new Reform Party or for the tired, discredited Conservatives?”
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,522
    Leon said:

    Lobster Thermidor isn't posh, it's weird, archaic and naff
    Hm. I can imagine how its archaic weirdness might lead it to come back into fashion, in the way that beef wellington sort-of has.

    I could absolutely see somewhere like Quo Vadis or The Devonshire doing it at some point...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,081
    edited July 2024

    Sorry that's a complete misunderstanding. The point is that in a democracy you ideally want a parliament that is broadly reflective of the country as a whole. Now we all know that FPTP is imperfect in that regard. But there comes a point at which credibility starts to be lost. I think a government and opposition with barely half the vote and in broad agreement in outlook would start to test that.

    I'm not saying Davey should turn the opportunity down. He could point out that the Lib Dems still favour PR. But it won't be even close to representative of the country and there ought to be a little unease about that.
    We don't really have a democracy in that sense. We have 650 little democracies that send an MP to parliament. After that it breaks down rather spectacularly - unelected Lords, a King and so on.

    I don't disagree with your broader point, but I also think it's a good thing that each MP has to win a personal mandate to afford them authority and so that we don't flood parliament with numpties picked from party member lists.

    Hang on...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566
    edited July 2024
    Farooq said:

    Who started the fat racist cnut talking about food ffs.

    Alprazolam, 1mg, mitte per diem

    It helps with suicidal depressive fits, try it
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,820
    Leon said:

    Hipster is basically posh these days, cf Glastonbury. Only ancient people revere naff haute cuisine like "lobster thermidor"

    For old fashioned posh that is STILL posh I'd go for grouse or snipe or woodcock or venison you yourself shot dead, or wild salmon, or native oysters

    It would have been fun if Sunak had said "my favourite meal is a dozen Helford natives on the half shell, and then partridge with game chips, I try to eat it every day"
    He should answer as the family doctor prescribes in Buddenbrooks: a little roast pigeon, a little French bread.

    Since reading that years ago I've occasionally made it for myself when the family are away. Pigeon breasts with plenty of black pepper on some baguette with a bit of butter, letting the blood soak into the bread. I recommend it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,277
    The 8 Reform seats with the latest UKElect forecast

    Barnsley North
    Barnsley South
    Clacton
    Dudley
    Great Yarmouth
    Hornchurch & Upminster
    Romford
    South Baslldon & East Thurrock
  • theakestheakes Posts: 958
    Look at6 this , latest IPSOS polling United States Democratic hopefuls against Trump, look who is way out in front:

    Pritzker 34% 40% Trump Trump +6
    July 1-2
    1,070 RV
    Ipsos
    Reuters Whitmer 36% 41% Trump Trump +5
    July 1-2
    1,070 RV
    Ipsos
    Reuters Beshear 36% 40% Trump Trump +4
    July 1-2
    1,070 RV
    Ipsos
    Reuters Harris 42% 43% Trump Trump +1
    July 1-2
    1,070 RV
    Ipsos
    Reuters M. Obama 50% 39% Trump M. Obama +11
    July 1-2
    1,070 RV
    Ipsos
    Reuters Biden 40% 40% Trump

    There you go, would she want it. The pressure on her to declare Yes will be enormous. She would certainly take Trump to the cleaners in a debate.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,160
    ...

    No. But the ELE joy espoused here will probably result in dreams crushed.

    Including a good number of wafer thin majorities, I'd be thinking the 150-199 seats band looks value.
    I have never supported the notion of an extinction event. That's not to say with all the recent performative cruelty from this Government they don't deserve it.

    My MP in Leominster was Peter Temple -Morris. A party of Peter Temple -Morrises (prior to his crossing the floor) would be fine by me.
  • novanova Posts: 754
    edited July 2024
    TOPPING said:

    You can get Lobster Thermidor at Wiltons for £75 so that is certainly posh-adjacent.
    Obviously he wasn't going to scream Lobster.

    If we've learnt anything about him, he's just desperate not to say Twix of Haribo again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,442

    The Fiji Coup I am talking about is the 1987 one that happened after the Party representing ethnic Indians won the election and the native Fijians basically said tolerance for ethnics is one thing, letting them decide how the country is run is another matter.
    That makes even less sense to me.
    I literally have no idea of the point you are making.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,076
    GIN1138 said:

    If Con survive this election, eventually FPTP will see them come back and Labour collapse. What FPTP gives it takes away and Labour would do well to remember that when they take office (but of course they won't because governments with large majorities never do - Look at the Conservatives after winning 80 seat majority)

    Of course that's a big if because there comes a point with FPTP where the damage probably isn't survivable and that point would probably be Lib-Dems becoming the official Opposition.
    If they were clever they should put through STV in local elections, harmonising with Scotland and NI, and helping to stem the inevitable councillors losses which they’ll experience in the midterm locals, win a second term, and then sort out our voting system before they get thrown out.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,566
    TimS said:

    He should answer as the family doctor prescribes in Buddenbrooks: a little roast pigeon, a little French bread.

    Since reading that years ago I've occasionally made it for myself when the family are away. Pigeon breasts with plenty of black pepper on some baguette with a bit of butter, letting the blood soak into the bread. I recommend it.
    Weirdly, on my last but one visit to France I bought a couple of pigeon in Leclerc and cooked them in my Airbnb

    They were absolutely delicious - and easy to cook. First time I've ever cooked them, went perfectly

    We should sell them in Britain, it's absurd we don't eat pigeon, there's not exactly a lack
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,668
    Leon said:

    Hipster is basically posh these days, cf Glastonbury. Only ancient people revere naff haute cuisine like "lobster thermidor"

    For old fashioned posh that is STILL posh I'd go for grouse or snipe or woodcock or venison you yourself shot dead, or wild salmon, or native oysters

    It would have been fun if Sunak had said "my favourite meal is a dozen Helford natives on the half shell, and then partridge with game chips, I try to eat it every day"
    As I say, Wiltons is posh-adjacent.

    How about Panko Breadcrumbed Pork Belly with Celeriac Rémoulade, Apple Purée, Garlic, Spinach, Plum and Mustard Cream Sauce
This discussion has been closed.