Reposting from the last thread my suggested solution to the problems of the law on computer evidence -
Make failure to disclose exculpatory evidence a strict liability offence (as with eg breaches of health and safety regs), punishable by fines, and criminal prosecutions in the most egregious cases.
It would make prosecutors a great deal more scrupulous about discharging their legal responsibilities.
An easy win, offered free to the next Labour Justice Secretary.
(The alternative is spending years trying to come up with a fairer rule that's also practical.)
Or you use the Scottish approach that Computer Evidence is not by itself enough....
Disclosure has long been a problem in other cases not involving computer evidence, of course.
A mixture of tow back and Rwanda
Rwanda would certainly be more of a practical deterrent to rogue prosecutors than it's likely to be to asylum seekers. But where were you proposing to tow prosecutors back to ?
International waters
There aren't any in the English Channel/La Manche. That's the killer.
In this case, Leon was (somewhat weirdly) talking about prosecutors.
This surely confirms Farage’s fuck up. What an idiot
He could have just sidestepped the question; he walked into an obvious trap
It's more than just a few points in the polls, though. It absolutely ends any chance of a post-election merger (RefUK won't get enough seats) and hopefully ends all possibility of Farage being welcomed into the Conservative ranks even if Patel or Braverman get the leadership gig.
It's all well and good debating geopolitics from a realpolitk perspective on an anoymous internet forum or in the even greater anonymity of an international relations department of a second rate university.
But Farage came out with comments supportive of a hostile foreign power at a time when we're in a (proxy) war with them, at a time when hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, our allies, are paying in blood to free their country of Russian invaders. And he did this on national TV.
In the unlikely event Farage did worm his way into the Conservative party, you can imagine plenty of moderates quitting the party in disgust, or crossing over to the Lib Dems.
Farage's gaffe may well have ended his political ambitions and saved the Conservative party at the same time.
Yes. It was possibly the biggest gaffe of the campaign - with some stiff competition from the Tories
As others on PB have noted it sounded like a MAGA talking point. The kind of stuff you can get away with in America but not in Europe and certainly not in the UK
Crass
Gaffe to me (perhaps wrongly) implies some mildly humorous misstep. Whereas this is something darker. Nigel - and indeed much of Reform - appear to be making no secret of their admiration for Putin: a man who is both a baddie morally and a major threat to the UK. It's not even a position where the UK might have to deal with some morally questionable dictator for the third world for its own wider purposes, or even if there is any internal constituency it is trying to placate; associating with Putin is AFAICS all downside.
It's a mystery to me. Personally I might be in the market for a low tax/low immigration socially conservative party. But not if it involves getting into bed with Putin. I don't see why any party would add that to their portfolio of beliefs.
Fair. I was using gaffe in its loosest sense - a verbal error which is damaging
It can be that and also the more serious evidence of moral failure that you cite
I am one of the few PBers who is open to some populist right wingery but it made me think YUK - not least coz I’ve just come back from Ukraine and seen the widows and mothers weeping in maidan square
So even though I see sense in Farage’s argument - I believe we did handle Russia badly - Farage got it all badly wrong: tone, timing, sentiment - and he made a lot of people remember his prior links to putinism
Given the number of shares sold recently by its directors it was always on the cards, or had a strong chance. If they’re profit taking why won’t other investors.
It was always going to happen given the way it has risen, still be rich if you had shares in it. If you have index, IT's, ETF's etc then it has had minimimal impact since Friday, down a fraction overall
I’m getting really tired of the sexualisation of women by men on this site. @TSE did it earlier saying that the tories were going to get ‘stepmomed’. And you are one of the worst offenders Leon with your old man (well you’re 62) perviness.
It’s odious and disgusting objectification of women. Please both of you, and others, desist. Thank you.
SKS- Private Sponge (Dads Army) Sunak - Frank Spencer (Some Mothers Do Ave Em) Ed Davey - Peggy (Hi de Hi) Farage - Del Boy (Only Fools and Horses) Carla - Barbara Good (The Good Life)
Given the number of shares sold recently by its directors it was always on the cards, or had a strong chance. If they’re profit taking why won’t other investors.
It was always going to happen given the way it has risen, still be rich if you had shares in it. If you have index, IT's, ETF's etc then it has had minimimal impact since Friday, down a fraction overall
Two rules I follow. Time in the market > Timing the market. Buy broad, don't try and pick winners.
When a party is heading for a majority of 264 seats with 39.5% of the vote, as Electoral Calculus is currently forecasting, you know they must be distributing their vote very efficiently.
Labour aren't really distributing any votes. It's more that their opponents are splitting their votes very effectively.
Yup. The biggest factor is the RefCon split, and there's not very much Starmer can do about that.
(I'm not sure that there's much Reform or the Conservatives can do about it either in the short term, but hey ho.)
So Starmer might as well get on with governing well. And the 100 or so flukiest Labour MPs had best enjoy the ride.
It's good for SKS, I think. If he gets (say) a 250 majority he can mentally split it into 2 parts. A core majority of 150 and a dispensable frothy add-on of another 100. Rather like a pint of bitter with a big head on it. The 'head' he can use when spending political capital on the tough 'to govern is to choose' decisions he will need to take if he is to be a radical reforming PM in the progressive tradition. Normally a PM would have to be spending some of their real and actual majority when doing the hard controversial stuff. They'd be drinking their beer as it were. But Starmer can just pour away the head. He won't need to touch his ale until all of that has gone. Very nice position to be in.
And I think Starmer is going to need all the help he can get because the hand he's been dealt with when he enters Number 10 is just about the worst hand possible - seemingly with a few cards that aren't even part of the game..
I think he's inheriting a great political legacy and a terrible economic one. How long will it take for the second to destroy the first? That is the question. He's well placed for 2 terms, imo, but it's hard (and largely pointless) to predict out that far. I don't see Labour stuffing up to anything like the extent the Cons have since 2016 (and esp these last couple of years), in fact I expect them to govern well, but global events/factors tend to be more influential on us than the actions of our domestic governments, and we have no idea what they will be.
A great political legacy? Have you become a Brexit convert?
Ha, no, but sort of. Brexit has (amazingly) delivered a tangible benefit. The ruination of the Tory Party. And this is Starmer's golden political legacy. The gift of a huge majority yet with an expectations bar (because it's been set by those ruined Tories) that is so low he would need to be beyond terrible at the job to fail to clear it. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. Two terms nailed on. The chance to run the UK for a decade or more. Wow. But it is such a shame he can't tell a good joke and crack us all up. That could spoil everything. He needs to work on that.
Why are you so weirdly hurt and defensive when people point out that starmer is definitely not a comedian and tells cringey jokes?
Quite odd. He’s about to win a massive majority (as you note). What does it matter if people are a bit mean about his stiff persona?
He’s still gonna win. Chill
I'm neither hurt nor defensive, more irritated and disapproving. Why? Because that sort of punditry is coming from a place I think is shallow and harmful - the idea that the comic ability of politicians is of great importance. It's just a bad way of thinking. It encourages what ought to be discouraged.
I’m getting really tired of the sexualisation of women by men on this site. @TSE did it earlier saying that the tories were going to get ‘stepmomed’. And you are one of the worst offenders Leon with your old man (well you’re 62) perviness.
It’s odious and disgusting objectification of women. Please both of you, and others, desist. Thank you.
ISTR it being less than five days ago you declared that SKS was 'hot'.
It’s the highly sexual innuendos to which I’m referring
Imagine if opinion polls were banned during elections. The suspense now, and the shock come election night.
Parties would still have their own private polling and canvas returns. So we’d be here interpreting what internal party messaging was saying, or where the party leaders were visiting.
I think they should ban election polling, for the drama.
One reason the Brexit referendum night was so exciting was because there wasn't an exit poll. Slightly different point.
Reposting from the last thread my suggested solution to the problems of the law on computer evidence -
Make failure to disclose exculpatory evidence a strict liability offence (as with eg breaches of health and safety regs), punishable by fines, and criminal prosecutions in the most egregious cases.
It would make prosecutors a great deal more scrupulous about discharging their legal responsibilities.
An easy win, offered free to the next Labour Justice Secretary.
(The alternative is spending years trying to come up with a fairer rule that's also practical.)
Or you use the Scottish approach that Computer Evidence is not by itself enough....
Disclosure has long been a problem in other cases not involving computer evidence, of course.
A mixture of tow back and Rwanda
Rwanda would certainly be more of a practical deterrent to rogue prosecutors than it's likely to be to asylum seekers. But where were you proposing to tow prosecutors back to ?
International waters
There aren't any in the English Channel/La Manche. That's the killer.
nigelb asked: "And how would you manage to get control of sufficient votes to make more than a minor difference?" (When I was describing a strategy for "rigging" an election in the UK.)
In the US, there are many elections with relatively small electorates, and low turnouts. Although there are fewer such elections, per capita, in the UK, I assume there are a few.
Given the number of shares sold recently by its directors it was always on the cards, or had a strong chance. If they’re profit taking why won’t other investors.
It was always going to happen given the way it has risen, still be rich if you had shares in it. If you have index, IT's, ETF's etc then it has had minimimal impact since Friday, down a fraction overall
Two rules I follow. Time in the market > Timing the market. Buy broad, don't try and pick winners.
When a party is heading for a majority of 264 seats with 39.5% of the vote, as Electoral Calculus is currently forecasting, you know they must be distributing their vote very efficiently.
Labour aren't really distributing any votes. It's more that their opponents are splitting their votes very effectively.
Yup. The biggest factor is the RefCon split, and there's not very much Starmer can do about that.
(I'm not sure that there's much Reform or the Conservatives can do about it either in the short term, but hey ho.)
So Starmer might as well get on with governing well. And the 100 or so flukiest Labour MPs had best enjoy the ride.
It's good for SKS, I think. If he gets (say) a 250 majority he can mentally split it into 2 parts. A core majority of 150 and a dispensable frothy add-on of another 100. Rather like a pint of bitter with a big head on it. The 'head' he can use when spending political capital on the tough 'to govern is to choose' decisions he will need to take if he is to be a radical reforming PM in the progressive tradition. Normally a PM would have to be spending some of their real and actual majority when doing the hard controversial stuff. They'd be drinking their beer as it were. But Starmer can just pour away the head. He won't need to touch his ale until all of that has gone. Very nice position to be in.
And I think Starmer is going to need all the help he can get because the hand he's been dealt with when he enters Number 10 is just about the worst hand possible - seemingly with a few cards that aren't even part of the game..
I think he's inheriting a great political legacy and a terrible economic one. How long will it take for the second to destroy the first? That is the question. He's well placed for 2 terms, imo, but it's hard (and largely pointless) to predict out that far. I don't see Labour stuffing up to anything like the extent the Cons have since 2016 (and esp these last couple of years), in fact I expect them to govern well, but global events/factors tend to be more influential on us than the actions of our domestic governments, and we have no idea what they will be.
A great political legacy? Have you become a Brexit convert?
Ha, no, but sort of. Brexit has (amazingly) delivered a tangible benefit. The ruination of the Tory Party. And this is Starmer's golden political legacy. The gift of a huge majority yet with an expectations bar (because it's been set by those ruined Tories) that is so low he would need to be beyond terrible at the job to fail to clear it. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. Two terms nailed on. The chance to run the UK for a decade or more. Wow. But it is such a shame he can't tell a good joke and crack us all up. That could spoil everything. He needs to work on that.
Why are you so weirdly hurt and defensive when people point out that starmer is definitely not a comedian and tells cringey jokes?
Quite odd. He’s about to win a massive majority (as you note). What does it matter if people are a bit mean about his stiff persona?
He’s still gonna win. Chill
I'm neither hurt nor defensive, more irritated and disapproving. Why? Because that sort of punditry is coming from a place I think is shallow and harmful - the idea that the comic ability of politicians is of great importance. It's just a bad way of thinking. It encourages what ought to be discouraged.
Can you dial down the pomposity? I mean. Seriously. You’re like some affronted Lord Mayor of newent
To emphasis the scale of the problem - if you want to buy an Astra Electric car - most dealers will give you a 35% off the list price taking it from £40,000 down to £27,000 or so..
Seems like SKS knows a lot more about being popular than PB since his approval ratings have consistently gone up throughout the campaign. Time to accept that his judgment of the public mood has been far more on point for the last three years than many here.
Its all relative. His main opponent has been going around making a tit of themselves and disrespecting veterans, Farage is massively polarising and the Unknown Stuntman is having fun but that a serious politician does not make. Its not exactly Ms Universe of attractiveness.
Given the number of shares sold recently by its directors it was always on the cards, or had a strong chance. If they’re profit taking why won’t other investors.
It was always going to happen given the way it has risen, still be rich if you had shares in it. If you have index, IT's, ETF's etc then it has had minimimal impact since Friday, down a fraction overall
Two rules I follow. Time in the market > Timing the market. Buy broad, don't try and pick winners.
Snap. Many far better investors than me advocate time in the market. Indeed it has been said far more money has Been lost anticipating a crash than in the market itself.
I have a few dividend paying stocks but am mainly index funds/ETFs.
Jezza with manperson-hole spotting, Boris with wine box buses, Sunak with this coke addiction, Starmer trading friendship bracelets.
His Coke addiction, not his coke addiction.
After the campaign Sunak has had, both his own missteps and the absolute belleneds around him, would anybody blame him if he ended up on the harder stuff....Mexican Coke.
eek said: "the reason why postal fraud works in the States is because it's the votes arriving after the election date that creates all the issues when things run late."
Both the importance of postal voting, and the date ballots must be in depend, very much on on the state. Washington state, where I live, is an outlier. It is possible to vote in person here, but not as easy as it should be. Ballots must be postmarked by election day, so they can arrive, legally, days after.
But, I repeat, the rules vary widely from state to state.
Now off to do some chores. Back by Friday, at the latest.
First sign of putin effect? Or just Margin of error stuff?
Farage blew it with his Putin comments.
Not exactly blew it, but put a ceiling on his success.
20% was very possible before. I wonder why he made such a stupid mistake.
Farage was showing signs that he believed he was politically invincible. All the 'wait till I've finished with Labour' stuff suggests he thinks he's some kind of superman. (I'm guessing he got this from Trump.)
And ex-public schoolboy over-confidence. Which is a repeating pattern within our political class in recent years.
My picture of the day (indeed, week)! My Vote Compass results for Northern Ireland.
Interesting chart - who do you vote for if you are a socialist Unionist, or a right-wing Nationalist?
(And why are Irish nationalists left wing? In most other places nationalism is firmly right wing).
The Progressive Unionist Party is unionist and left-wing, and has 1 councillor. But they're not standing in the general election and also very paramilitary associated! Some in the Labour Party are keen to stand in Northern Ireland, and they did, I believe, in 2016, but don't currently. There is the breakaway Cross-Community Labour Alternative standing in 1 seat, but I'm unclear on their position on the union.
Aontú are socially conservative nationalists. They have had representation in NI previously, but don't at present. They do have representation in the Republic. They're standing in 10/18 NI seats. Last time, their best result was 4.3% in Foyle.
Lots of anti-imperial nationalisms are left-wing, as with Irish republicanism, pan-Arab nationalism, etc. The Basque ETA were far left.
Thank you - interesting.
I know there used to be a 'NI Labour' way back in the mists of time but the electorates in NI seem to have polarised in their politics as much as in their community allegiances. I suppose the Nationalists were generally poorer, so the left dominated naturally, and the reverse for the unionists.
NILP peaked at around 20% of the vote in 1945, prompting the govt to pursue a deliberate 'divide and rule' policy against them - harnessing the OO and parts of the trade union movement to force them to declare a position on the border.
They initially resisted, preferring to maintain a non-sectarian line, but the party began to splinter until they eventually abandoned neutrality and declared in favour of the union in 1949. At that point, the Catholic vote deserted them and they lost their only Westminster MP in 1950. They staggered on with a handful of Stormont MPs and councillors on and off into the 1970s, but never got close to the level of popularity that they probably would have had if it weren't for the sectarian issue.
One of the many, many what-might-have-beens in NI history...
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
This GE campaign has to have had the least discussion of policy ever. I doubt if the public could even tell you what the parties policies are under than something something National Service vs Labour something something VAT, private schools, growth. Lib Dems, no idea. Farage Party, no immigrants, SNP, Freeeedddoooommm.
It’s completely unfair that France gets all this natural beauty (and better weather, and slimmer women) while we have Newent, Wick and @kinabalu’s golf club
I’m therefore trying to cheer myself out of my jealousy by working out what is the most boring, least interesting department of France. The obvious choice would be somewhere in Picardy but I think I’ve found a prime candidate
Creuse. It seems to be the ultimate nowhere land smack bang in the middle of the country. It has a tiny population with only lozere smaller (in departments) but Lozere is quite spectacular -moors, mountains, megaliths and ravines
Creuse has… farms. And a town that used to make tapestries. That seems to be it
Is it that bad? Has anyone been? How boring is creuse?
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I think that was just pipped by his claim that he made models of buses out of wine boxes to relax. That was beyond weird.
Oh god yes, I'd forgotten that. Just so cringily entitled, assuming all the little people would be amused or 'charmed' by that load of facetious shit.
BoJo definitely wins the most unfunny PM ever award.
I thought that was intentional. There was a story highly damaging to the Tory campaign, So Johnson pulled that stunt of his. Anybody who looked for the key word in the serious story was taken immediately to the same word in the cardboard bus story.
Seems like SKS knows a lot more about being popular than PB since his approval ratings have consistently gone up throughout the campaign. Time to accept that his judgment of the public mood has been far more on point for the last three years than many here.
Indeed. I chuckled to hear Rory Stewart giving him advice on election strategy the other day on his podcast. He's doing just fine by himself.
This GE campaign has to have had the least discussion of policy ever. I doubt if the public could even tell you what the parties policies are under than something something National Service vs Labour something something VAT, private schools, growth. Lib Dems, no idea. Farage Party, no immigrants, SNP, Freeeedddoooommm.
Conservatives = More of the last 14 years of economic stagnation, failure and corruption. More handouts for pensioners. Natty serves. Labour = We're clearly going to put up taxes, but won't tell you which ones until we're safely in office. No real plan for the economy. Lib Dems = We clearly will put up taxes, and we've told you which ones. Our plans will wreck the economy. RefUK = We hate immigrants and anything woke. We love a cheeky pint, and Vladimir Putin. Green = Welcome (Corbynite) refugees. Eat the rich. Free Palestine. The environment? What's that?
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
To emphasis the scale of the problem - if you want to buy an Astra Electric car - most dealers will give you a 35% off the list price taking it from £40,000 down to £27,000 or so..
The fall of in demand for electric vehicles aside, Stellantis are up S*** Street as it is. Peugeot Citroen could survive but Vauxhall/Opel and Fiat (essentially a Russian doll two car line up-500 & 600) are in big trouble and Chrysler-Jeep in even bigger trouble.
FPT: In the US, in recent decades, most vote fraud has been committed with postal ballots, for a simple reason: they need not be secret. I suspect the same applies in the UK.
So, if I wanted to "rig" an election in the UK, I would encourage the use of postal ballots, and I would concentrate on areas where the voters, or their parents and grandparents, come from places where vote fraud is common.
And how would you manage to get control of sufficient votes to make more than a minor difference ?
+ the reason why postal fraud works in the States is because it's the votes arriving after the election date that creates all the issues when things run late.
You don't get that in the UK because if your postal vote isn't in the hands of the correct people by 10pm on July 4th it doesn't count.
No. The timing doesn’t affect whether there’s fraud.
Sir Keir has pledged that no young person caught with a knife will escape sanction under Labour such as jail, tagging, curfew, fine or behavioural contracts.
It’s completely unfair that France gets all this natural beauty (and better weather, and slimmer women) while we have Newent, Wick and @kinabalu’s golf club
I’m therefore trying to cheer myself out of my jealousy by working out what is the most boring, least interesting department of France. The obvious choice would be somewhere in Picardy but I think I’ve found a prime candidate
Creuse. It seems to be the ultimate nowhere land smack bang in the middle of the country. It has a tiny population with only lozere smaller (in departments) but Lozere is quite spectacular -moors, mountains, megaliths and ravines
Creuse has… farms. And a town that used to make tapestries. That seems to be it
Is it that bad? Has anyone been? How boring is creuse?
If we're comparing like with like then you'll need to see what if offers vis a vis Bedfordshire.
This GE campaign has to have had the least discussion of policy ever. I doubt if the public could even tell you what the parties policies are under than something something National Service vs Labour something something VAT, private schools, growth. Lib Dems, no idea. Farage Party, no immigrants, SNP, Freeeedddoooommm.
Conservatives = More of the last 14 years of economic stagnation, failure and corruption. More handouts for pensioners. Natty serves. Labour = We're clearly going to put up taxes, but won't tell you which ones until we're safely in office. No real plan for the economy. Lib Dems = We clearly will put up taxes, and we've told you which ones. Our plans will wreck the economy. RefUK = We hate immigrants and anything woke. We love a cheeky pint, and Vladimir Putin. Green = Welcome (Corbynite) refugees. Eat the rich. Free Palestine. The environment? What's that?
To emphasis the scale of the problem - if you want to buy an Astra Electric car - most dealers will give you a 35% off the list price taking it from £40,000 down to £27,000 or so..
The fall of in demand for electric vehicles aside, Stellantis are up S*** Street as it is. Peugeot Citroen could survive but Vauxhall/Opel and Fiat (essentially a Russian doll two car line up-500 & 600) are in big trouble and Chrysler-Jeep in even bigger trouble.
Stellantis are the British Leyland on the 2020s.
Who is buying their cars these days? There are far better options before we even get the rush of Chinese subsidised ones flooding the market.
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I think that was just pipped by his claim that he made models of buses out of wine boxes to relax. That was beyond weird.
Oh god yes, I'd forgotten that. Just so cringily entitled, assuming all the little people would be amused or 'charmed' by that load of facetious shit.
BoJo definitely wins the most unfunny PM ever award.
It's a difficult thing to measure - but if measured by actual laughs raised, almost certainly not. We've had dozens of deadly serious politicians and exactly one who was light entertainment. Because he made people laugh. He may have made you so constantly furious that you couldn't, but he made many people laugh.
This GE campaign has to have had the least discussion of policy ever. I doubt if the public could even tell you what the parties policies are under than something something National Service vs Labour something something VAT, private schools, growth. Lib Dems, no idea. Farage Party, no immigrants, SNP, Freeeedddoooommm.
Conservatives = More of the last 14 years of economic stagnation, failure and corruption. More handouts for pensioners. Natty serves. Labour = We're clearly going to put up taxes, but won't tell you which ones until we're safely in office. No real plan for the economy. Lib Dems = We clearly will put up taxes, and we've told you which ones. Our plans will wreck the economy. RefUK = We hate immigrants and anything woke. We love a cheeky pint, and Vladimir Putin. Green = Welcome (Corbynite) refugees. Eat the rich. Free Palestine. The environment? What's that?
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
Sir Keir has pledged that no young person caught with a knife will escape sanction under Labour such as jail, tagging, curfew, fine or behavioural contracts.
When a party is heading for a majority of 264 seats with 39.5% of the vote, as Electoral Calculus is currently forecasting, you know they must be distributing their vote very efficiently.
Labour aren't really distributing any votes. It's more that their opponents are splitting their votes very effectively.
Yup. The biggest factor is the RefCon split, and there's not very much Starmer can do about that.
(I'm not sure that there's much Reform or the Conservatives can do about it either in the short term, but hey ho.)
So Starmer might as well get on with governing well. And the 100 or so flukiest Labour MPs had best enjoy the ride.
It's good for SKS, I think. If he gets (say) a 250 majority he can mentally split it into 2 parts. A core majority of 150 and a dispensable frothy add-on of another 100. Rather like a pint of bitter with a big head on it. The 'head' he can use when spending political capital on the tough 'to govern is to choose' decisions he will need to take if he is to be a radical reforming PM in the progressive tradition. Normally a PM would have to be spending some of their real and actual majority when doing the hard controversial stuff. They'd be drinking their beer as it were. But Starmer can just pour away the head. He won't need to touch his ale until all of that has gone. Very nice position to be in.
And I think Starmer is going to need all the help he can get because the hand he's been dealt with when he enters Number 10 is just about the worst hand possible - seemingly with a few cards that aren't even part of the game..
I think he's inheriting a great political legacy and a terrible economic one. How long will it take for the second to destroy the first? That is the question. He's well placed for 2 terms, imo, but it's hard (and largely pointless) to predict out that far. I don't see Labour stuffing up to anything like the extent the Cons have since 2016 (and esp these last couple of years), in fact I expect them to govern well, but global events/factors tend to be more influential on us than the actions of our domestic governments, and we have no idea what they will be.
A great political legacy? Have you become a Brexit convert?
Ha, no, but sort of. Brexit has (amazingly) delivered a tangible benefit. The ruination of the Tory Party. And this is Starmer's golden political legacy. The gift of a huge majority yet with an expectations bar (because it's been set by those ruined Tories) that is so low he would need to be beyond terrible at the job to fail to clear it. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. Two terms nailed on. The chance to run the UK for a decade or more. Wow. But it is such a shame he can't tell a good joke and crack us all up. That could spoil everything. He needs to work on that.
Why are you so weirdly hurt and defensive when people point out that starmer is definitely not a comedian and tells cringey jokes?
Quite odd. He’s about to win a massive majority (as you note). What does it matter if people are a bit mean about his stiff persona?
He’s still gonna win. Chill
I'm neither hurt nor defensive, more irritated and disapproving. Why? Because that sort of punditry is coming from a place I think is shallow and harmful - the idea that the comic ability of politicians is of great importance. It's just a bad way of thinking. It encourages what ought to be discouraged.
Can you dial down the pomposity? I mean. Seriously. You’re like some affronted Lord Mayor of newent
Well I just do a mix of serious and kidalong like lots on here. You have to be serious sometimes otherwise you're not grounded in anything. And here I do genuinely feel that the 'Starmer dull' meme is due for retirement. It's become a great deal duller than the eponymous.
FPT: In the US, in recent decades, most vote fraud has been committed with postal ballots, for a simple reason: they need not be secret. I suspect the same applies in the UK.
So, if I wanted to "rig" an election in the UK, I would encourage the use of postal ballots, and I would concentrate on areas where the voters, or their parents and grandparents, come from places where vote fraud is common.
And how would you manage to get control of sufficient votes to make more than a minor difference ?
+ the reason why postal fraud works in the States is because it's the votes arriving after the election date that creates all the issues when things run late.
You don't get that in the UK because if your postal vote isn't in the hands of the correct people by 10pm on July 4th it doesn't count.
Your initial sentence is bullshit in my humble yet professional opinion. Seeing as how in just about all jurisdictions that I'm aware of, these ballots receive the same level - if not higher level - of scrutiny than those returned on or by Election Day.
Actual sources of US postal ballot fraud are generally candidates, campaigns and/or their agents submit fraudulent requests for absentee ballots, either with false signatures OR by getting genuine sigs from voters under false pretenses.
Other potential problem, as cited by Jim Miller, is possible lack of privacy for individuals voting in family or other groups, though in my humble yet professional experience is greatly exaggerated.
BTW (and also FYI) note the following are reported by NYT:
The Republican primary between Representative Bob Good of Virginia, the chairman of the ultraconservative House Freedom Caucus, and his Trump-backed challenger was still up in the air on Monday almost a week after the balloting, as the two election deniers settled in for a lengthy and ugly fight over who was the true victor.
John J. McGuire, a little-known state senator and former Navy SEAL who attended the “Stop the Steal” rally outside the White House on Jan. 6, 2021, held a razor-thin lead of just under 375 votes out of the nearly 63,000 votes cast, according to The Associated Press. He declared victory last Tuesday night before all the votes were counted, and on Monday, former President Donald J. Trump, who endorsed him, declared Mr. McGuire the winner in a social media post.
But The A.P. said on Monday that the contest was too close to call, noting that while it would be unusual for a recount to shift the outcome of such a race, it would not be impossible. And Mr. Good has already made it clear he will seek a recount, an option under Virginia law, which allows such a request if the winner of a race is less than one percentage point ahead of his opponent.
SSI - In earlier story, Good the Lesser (so far) was hanging his hat/hopes on approx one dozen ballots found in ballot box on counter of Lynchburg city election center the day AFTER election day and added to the count. HOWEVER, note that Lynchburg (home to Liberty University founded by Jerry Falwell) is Good's best turf in the district.
Further note how both Donald Trump AND Kevin McCarthy are seeking revenge versus Good, while Steve Bannon is a major Good (in one sense anyway) backer.
"Craig Williams, Tory candidate dropped over election bet, says he committed error, but not an offence
Craig Williams, the Tory candidate in Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr who is no longer officially backed by the party because of the bet he placed on the date of the election, has posted a video on X with a message for his electorate.
He is pleading for his job. He says he committed “an error of judgment, not an offence” and he in effect downplays the significance of the Gambling Commission’s inquiry into what he did, describing it as “routine”.
He also highlights the work he has done for constituents, as MP for Montgomeryshire over the past five years."
ETA: He does the weird 13.5 age thing in both, which is even stranger if scripted.
ETA2: I'm naming this nascent scandal Taylorgate. He may well Shake It Off but there's bound to be Bad Blood and Starmer increasingly looks like a Blank Space. We'll see the effect within the Fortnight - it could be a Cruel Summer rather than a Love Story!
Sir Keir has pledged that no young person caught with a knife will escape sanction under Labour such as jail, tagging, curfew, fine or behavioural contracts.
When a party is heading for a majority of 264 seats with 39.5% of the vote, as Electoral Calculus is currently forecasting, you know they must be distributing their vote very efficiently.
Labour aren't really distributing any votes. It's more that their opponents are splitting their votes very effectively.
Yup. The biggest factor is the RefCon split, and there's not very much Starmer can do about that.
(I'm not sure that there's much Reform or the Conservatives can do about it either in the short term, but hey ho.)
So Starmer might as well get on with governing well. And the 100 or so flukiest Labour MPs had best enjoy the ride.
It's good for SKS, I think. If he gets (say) a 250 majority he can mentally split it into 2 parts. A core majority of 150 and a dispensable frothy add-on of another 100. Rather like a pint of bitter with a big head on it. The 'head' he can use when spending political capital on the tough 'to govern is to choose' decisions he will need to take if he is to be a radical reforming PM in the progressive tradition. Normally a PM would have to be spending some of their real and actual majority when doing the hard controversial stuff. They'd be drinking their beer as it were. But Starmer can just pour away the head. He won't need to touch his ale until all of that has gone. Very nice position to be in.
And I think Starmer is going to need all the help he can get because the hand he's been dealt with when he enters Number 10 is just about the worst hand possible - seemingly with a few cards that aren't even part of the game..
I think he's inheriting a great political legacy and a terrible economic one. How long will it take for the second to destroy the first? That is the question. He's well placed for 2 terms, imo, but it's hard (and largely pointless) to predict out that far. I don't see Labour stuffing up to anything like the extent the Cons have since 2016 (and esp these last couple of years), in fact I expect them to govern well, but global events/factors tend to be more influential on us than the actions of our domestic governments, and we have no idea what they will be.
A great political legacy? Have you become a Brexit convert?
Ha, no, but sort of. Brexit has (amazingly) delivered a tangible benefit. The ruination of the Tory Party. And this is Starmer's golden political legacy. The gift of a huge majority yet with an expectations bar (because it's been set by those ruined Tories) that is so low he would need to be beyond terrible at the job to fail to clear it. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. Two terms nailed on. The chance to run the UK for a decade or more. Wow. But it is such a shame he can't tell a good joke and crack us all up. That could spoil everything. He needs to work on that.
Why are you so weirdly hurt and defensive when people point out that starmer is definitely not a comedian and tells cringey jokes?
Quite odd. He’s about to win a massive majority (as you note). What does it matter if people are a bit mean about his stiff persona?
He’s still gonna win. Chill
I'm neither hurt nor defensive, more irritated and disapproving. Why? Because that sort of punditry is coming from a place I think is shallow and harmful - the idea that the comic ability of politicians is of great importance. It's just a bad way of thinking. It encourages what ought to be discouraged.
Can you dial down the pomposity? I mean. Seriously. You’re like some affronted Lord Mayor of newent
Well I just do a mix of serious and kidalong like lots on here. You have to be serious sometimes otherwise you're not grounded in anything. And here I do genuinely feel that the 'Starmer dull' meme is due for retirement. It's become a great deal duller than the eponymous.
As somebody said earlier, maybe the interesting thing about him is the dullness. And we may at last have found a leader who can play 3D chess?
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I think that was just pipped by his claim that he made models of buses out of wine boxes to relax. That was beyond weird.
Oh god yes, I'd forgotten that. Just so cringily entitled, assuming all the little people would be amused or 'charmed' by that load of facetious shit.
BoJo definitely wins the most unfunny PM ever award.
I thought that was intentional. There was a story highly damaging to the Tory campaign, So Johnson pulled that stunt of his. Anybody who looked for the key word in the serious story was taken immediately to the same word in the cardboard bus story.
Really? Didn't hear that story. Well I wouldn't put it past him. "Peppa" certainly wasn't some devious ploy though. That was a man who thought he was funny embarrassing himself and his audience. It was one the key "moments" in his exposure and downfall imo.
"Craig Williams, Tory candidate dropped over election bet, says he committed error, but not an offence
Craig Williams, the Tory candidate in Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr who is no longer officially backed by the party because of the bet he placed on the date of the election, has posted a video on X with a message for his electorate.
He is pleading for his job. He says he committed “an error of judgment, not an offence” and he in effect downplays the significance of the Gambling Commission’s inquiry into what he did, describing it as “routine”.
He also highlights the work he has done for constituents, as MP for Montgomeryshire over the past five years."
"Craig Williams, Tory candidate dropped over election bet, says he committed error, but not an offence
Craig Williams, the Tory candidate in Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr who is no longer officially backed by the party because of the bet he placed on the date of the election, has posted a video on X with a message for his electorate.
He is pleading for his job. He says he committed “an error of judgment, not an offence” and he in effect downplays the significance of the Gambling Commission’s inquiry into what he did, describing it as “routine”.
He also highlights the work he has done for constituents, as MP for Montgomeryshire over the past five years."
What they never seem to get is that something doesn’t have to reach the level of criminality to be a sackable offence.
We saw that time and time again with expenses scandal. I know its looks bad that I kept changing home, refitting it with my expenses and then sold it on for a profit, but it wasn't against the rules, so why are you bothering me.
Yes, I know I already own a second home 5 minutes from parliament, but I let that one out to my daughter, so I really need the tax payer to fund my rented apartment....I don't understand why you are so angry.
Assange is claiming his private jet cost him $500k. That seems like a lot of money. Oh and by the way can you make a donation. Couldn't Uncle Vlad send a plane or make a contribution?
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
Exactly right and very eloquent to boot. He doesn’t apparently understand humour at a basic level. This is like “how do you do fellow kids” but he means it
Add in the non-dreaming and third person stuff and we have a proper oddball coming into number 10. But then maybe that’s what Britain needs as we stare into the abyss
He doesn’t have a favourite poem or novel either. Hmmm. He’s the cliche of an alien trying to be human and failing. But again - that could be just the ticket
Tho TMay and Brown were a bit like this and they were disasters
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
Exactly right and very eloquent to boot. He doesn’t apparently understand humour at a basic level. This is like “how do you do fellow kids” but he means it
Add in the non-dreaming and third person stuff and we have a proper oddball coming into number 10. But then maybe that’s what Britain needs as we stare into the abyss
He doesn’t have a favourite poem or novel either. Hmmm. He’s the cliche of an alien trying to be human and failing. But again - that could be just the ticket
Tho TMay and Brown were a bit like this and they were disasters
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
Does no one recall Mrs T's attempts at humour ?
Ha, yes, I was thinking that actually. That was almost the opposite. Thatch had relatively good jokes (whether they were her own or scripted for her is another matter) but she got the delivery absolutely horribly wrong, as if she'd never seen a joke delivered before. SKS has clearly seen a joke delivered before but appears not to recognise what distinguishes an anecdote from not-an-anecdote.
The other aspect to the clip was the bored kids. I mean, it was a boring story, but come on kids - it might have gone somewhere. And even its failure to do so is interesting. And that's the future Prime Minister there talking to you. There is some top grade determination to be bored going on there. Absolute terror of showing enthusiasm in case it arouses mockery from your peers. Well done lads.
It’s completely unfair that France gets all this natural beauty (and better weather, and slimmer women) while we have Newent, Wick and @kinabalu’s golf club
I’m therefore trying to cheer myself out of my jealousy by working out what is the most boring, least interesting department of France. The obvious choice would be somewhere in Picardy but I think I’ve found a prime candidate
Creuse. It seems to be the ultimate nowhere land smack bang in the middle of the country. It has a tiny population with only lozere smaller (in departments) but Lozere is quite spectacular -moors, mountains, megaliths and ravines
Creuse has… farms. And a town that used to make tapestries. That seems to be it
Is it that bad? Has anyone been? How boring is creuse?
If we're comparing like with like then you'll need to see what if offers vis a vis Bedfordshire.
Hah. I did for a moment wonder about the “most boring county in Britain” and yes Bedfordshire floated into my head
To emphasis the scale of the problem - if you want to buy an Astra Electric car - most dealers will give you a 35% off the list price taking it from £40,000 down to £27,000 or so..
The fall of in demand for electric vehicles aside, Stellantis are up S*** Street as it is. Peugeot Citroen could survive but Vauxhall/Opel and Fiat (essentially a Russian doll two car line up-500 & 600) are in big trouble and Chrysler-Jeep in even bigger trouble.
Stellantis are the British Leyland on the 2020s.
Who is buying their cars these days? There are far better options before we even get the rush of Chinese subsidised ones flooding the market.
The Chinese ones probably don't actually require much subsidy at this point, as they're now just more efficient at manufacturing them (and have lower labour costs).
The scale of government support represents 18.8% of total electric car sales between 2009 and 2023, said Scott Kennedy, trustee chair in Chinese Business and Economics at CSIS. He noted the ratio of such spending to EV sales has declined from more than 40% in the years prior to 2017, to just above 11% in 2023...
..The U.S. has been increasing its efforts to support electric cars. The Inflation Reduction Act, signed into law in August 2022, allocated $370 billion for promoting clean technologies.
Kennedy pointed out the legislation provides a $7,500 credit for qualifying electric car purchases. That’s in contrast to the average Chinese support per electric car purchase of $4,600 in 2023 — which is down from $13,860 in 2018...
We should probably be trying to get them to build a factory over here. We might be able to nick their tech, for a change.
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
I don't miss points, Cookie, you know that.
It's just a sweet and rather forced little story in front of a bunch of stony faced teenagers. THAT is what's funny - least to me - them in the background. The awkwardness. Lol. Poor kids.
But look, it was clearly meant to be gently amusing not bring the house down. And it fell a little flat. So the fuck what? People going on about how incredibly 'cringy' it is - they are the weirdos here. Eg it's absolutely nothing next to "Peppa Pig" and "Buses".
But the good news? Leon is not voting Labour. It's Reform for our gammon with a vocab.
This GE campaign has to have had the least discussion of policy ever. I doubt if the public could even tell you what the parties policies are under than something something National Service vs Labour something something VAT, private schools, growth. Lib Dems, no idea. Farage Party, no immigrants, SNP, Freeeedddoooommm.
Conservatives = More of the last 14 years of economic stagnation, failure and corruption. More handouts for pensioners. Natty serves. Labour = We're clearly going to put up taxes, but won't tell you which ones until we're safely in office. No real plan for the economy. Lib Dems = We clearly will put up taxes, and we've told you which ones. Our plans will wreck the economy. RefUK = We hate immigrants and anything woke. We love a cheeky pint, and Vladimir Putin. Green = Welcome (Corbynite) refugees. Eat the rich. Free Palestine. The environment? What's that?
Which taxes are the Lib Dems defo putting up ?
CGT so capital flight / reduced investment in the economy, 'digital services tax' from 2% to 6%, 4% tax on share buyback schemes, reintroducing bank levies and surcharges, a 'proper' windfall tax on oil and gas (no specifics but assume stronger than Labour's proposals), 'reformed' aviation tax on frequent flyers, couple more things I may have forgotten about but overall it's pretty anti-business.
I can't imagine what it is about the macho, beer-swilling, one-of-the-boys laddish culture that surrounds Farage and his mates that women find unattractive.
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
Exactly right and very eloquent to boot. He doesn’t apparently understand humour at a basic level. This is like “how do you do fellow kids” but he means it
Add in the non-dreaming and third person stuff and we have a proper oddball coming into number 10. But then maybe that’s what Britain needs as we stare into the abyss
He doesn’t have a favourite poem or novel either. Hmmm. He’s the cliche of an alien trying to be human and failing. But again - that could be just the ticket
Tho TMay and Brown were a bit like this and they were disasters
The man is institutionalised after years working for the CPS. Hes a dangerous man in the sense he will be a puritan on legislating on things like ethnic minority pay gaps.
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
Does no one recall Mrs T's attempts at humour ?
Ha, yes, I was thinking that actually. That was almost the opposite. Thatch had relatively good jokes (whether they were her own or scripted for her is another matter) but she got the delivery absolutely horribly wrong, as if she'd never seen a joke delivered before. SKS has clearly seen a joke delivered before but appears not to recognise what distinguishes an anecdote from not-an-anecdote.
The other aspect to the clip was the bored kids. I mean, it was a boring story, but come on kids - it might have gone somewhere. And even its failure to do so is interesting. And that's the future Prime Minister there talking to you. There is some top grade determination to be bored going on there. Absolute terror of showing enthusiasm in case it arouses mockery from your peers. Well done lads.
No one even claimed that thatcher was “funny in private” which is the normal get around. Cf starmer, brown, etc
However thatcher was interestingly bohemian - liked a drink, good red wine or scotch - at lunch! - and liked artistic company. And she was seriously intelligent on any number of subjects. People used to sneer at her intellect - I think she had had the last laugh
Probably the smartest PM of the modern era? Wilson was famously clever but thatcher had a much broader vision
To emphasis the scale of the problem - if you want to buy an Astra Electric car - most dealers will give you a 35% off the list price taking it from £40,000 down to £27,000 or so..
Paywalled, but don't they say this every 18 months or so? "Give us more money or we'll leave".
It's almost as if they're determined to make the case for not following the EU tariffs on Chinese BEVs.
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
I don't miss points, Cookie, you know that.
It's just a sweet and rather forced little story in front of a bunch of stony faced teenagers. THAT is what's funny - least to me - them in the background. The awkwardness. Lol. Poor kids.
But look, it was clearly meant to be gently amusing not bring the house down. And it fell a little flat. So the fuck what? People going on about how incredibly 'cringy' it is - they are the weirdos here. Eg it's absolutely nothing next to "Peppa Pig" and "Buses".
But the good news? Leon is not voting Labour. It's Reform for our gammon with a vocab.
lol. You’re SO defensive. Is it because you’re a bit like kir royale yourself so it feels personal? Quite fascinating
I am really hating this 3rd placed in group can still qualify for knockouts nonsense in Euros. No jeopardy. We want to be thinking, shit if England screw this up tonight, they could be out. Not well if they screw it up, they will probably play Germany.
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I think that was just pipped by his claim that he made models of buses out of wine boxes to relax. That was beyond weird.
Oh god yes, I'd forgotten that. Just so cringily entitled, assuming all the little people would be amused or 'charmed' by that load of facetious shit.
BoJo definitely wins the most unfunny PM ever award.
It's a difficult thing to measure - but if measured by actual laughs raised, almost certainly not. We've had dozens of deadly serious politicians and exactly one who was light entertainment. Because he made people laugh. He may have made you so constantly furious that you couldn't, but he made many people laugh.
Yes, humour is personal. Which is why it's risky for a PM. They might be making some people laugh and others cringe (or even be offended). Best to keep it very safe - and safe means no riotous laughter unless you're Peter Kay or Tommy Cooper or something. In which case what are you doing wasting yourself in politics?
As for the measurement, I'd propose a net measure not a gross one. So it's laughs generated MINUS cringes and offence given. In which case I think BoJo keeps the award I've given him. He comes bottom.
It’s completely unfair that France gets all this natural beauty (and better weather, and slimmer women) while we have Newent, Wick and @kinabalu’s golf club
I’m therefore trying to cheer myself out of my jealousy by working out what is the most boring, least interesting department of France. The obvious choice would be somewhere in Picardy but I think I’ve found a prime candidate
Creuse. It seems to be the ultimate nowhere land smack bang in the middle of the country. It has a tiny population with only lozere smaller (in departments) but Lozere is quite spectacular -moors, mountains, megaliths and ravines
Creuse has… farms. And a town that used to make tapestries. That seems to be it
Is it that bad? Has anyone been? How boring is creuse?
They make cracking iron cooking ware there, nevertheless, so in a way it’s world famous, in a way that Bedfordshire, isn’t.
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
Does no one recall Mrs T's attempts at humour ?
Ha, yes, I was thinking that actually. That was almost the opposite. Thatch had relatively good jokes (whether they were her own or scripted for her is another matter) but she got the delivery absolutely horribly wrong, as if she'd never seen a joke delivered before. SKS has clearly seen a joke delivered before but appears not to recognise what distinguishes an anecdote from not-an-anecdote.
The other aspect to the clip was the bored kids. I mean, it was a boring story, but come on kids - it might have gone somewhere. And even its failure to do so is interesting. And that's the future Prime Minister there talking to you. There is some top grade determination to be bored going on there. Absolute terror of showing enthusiasm in case it arouses mockery from your peers. Well done lads.
No one even claimed that thatcher was “funny in private” which is the normal get around. Cf starmer, brown, etc
However thatcher was interestingly bohemian - liked a drink, good red wine or scotch - at lunch! - and liked artistic company. And she was seriously intelligent on any number of subjects. People used to sneer at her intellect - I think she had had the last laugh
Probably the smartest PM of the modern era? Wilson was famously clever but thatcher had a much broader vision
Of recent PMs I think Blair is the brightest
The thing is, you're a bit of a card. At your best, you write very amusing anecdotes and have a good turn of phrase - you can be very funny. At your worst - no, I won't go there. But 95% of the population aren't like that - they can't tell a good joke, they're not great wordsmiths, and their anecdotes are, well, a bit dull. And Starmer is one of the 95%.
But, and it's a big but, most voters aren't choosing their next PM on those criteria, and frankly they couldn't give a flying fuck if Starmer doesn't crease them up with laughter.
He does good sofa. Was also good on the Sunday Brunch cooking show (tandoori salmon, since you asked).
Personally, I don't get the Taylor Swift thing. At all. But each to his own.
The hundreds of low-stakes podcasts he's done over the past year have really helped him with this. He's not a great performer in front of a big audience, but can shine on daytime telly. Probably still too uptight to ever be good on a chat show, though...
A bit like John Major in a way, only with a sofa instead of a soap box.
You don't need to be Gypsy Rose Lee to know that Farage will repulse women
I presume he stinks of fags and stale beer and wouldn't want to be near, but weirdly he seems to attract the company of some rather good looking ladies like Holly Valance and Georgia Toffolo.
FPT: In the US, in recent decades, most vote fraud has been committed with postal ballots, for a simple reason: they need not be secret. I suspect the same applies in the UK.
So, if I wanted to "rig" an election in the UK, I would encourage the use of postal ballots, and I would concentrate on areas where the voters, or their parents and grandparents, come from places where vote fraud is common.
And how would you manage to get control of sufficient votes to make more than a minor difference ?
+ the reason why postal fraud works in the States is because it's the votes arriving after the election date that creates all the issues when things run late.
You don't get that in the UK because if your postal vote isn't in the hands of the correct people by 10pm on July 4th it doesn't count.
Your initial sentence is bullshit in my humble yet professional opinion. Seeing as how in just about all jurisdictions that I'm aware of, these ballots receive the same level - if not higher level - of scrutiny than those returned on or by Election Day.
Actual sources of US postal ballot fraud are generally candidates, campaigns and/or their agents submit fraudulent requests for absentee ballots, either with false signatures OR by getting genuine sigs from voters under false pretenses.
Other potential problem, as cited by Jim Miller, is possible lack of privacy for individuals voting in family or other groups, though in my humble yet professional experience is greatly exaggerated.
BTW (and also FYI) note the following are reported by NYT:
The Republican primary between Representative Bob Good of Virginia, the chairman of the ultraconservative House Freedom Caucus, and his Trump-backed challenger was still up in the air on Monday almost a week after the balloting, as the two election deniers settled in for a lengthy and ugly fight over who was the true victor.
John J. McGuire, a little-known state senator and former Navy SEAL who attended the “Stop the Steal” rally outside the White House on Jan. 6, 2021, held a razor-thin lead of just under 375 votes out of the nearly 63,000 votes cast, according to The Associated Press. He declared victory last Tuesday night before all the votes were counted, and on Monday, former President Donald J. Trump, who endorsed him, declared Mr. McGuire the winner in a social media post.
But The A.P. said on Monday that the contest was too close to call, noting that while it would be unusual for a recount to shift the outcome of such a race, it would not be impossible. And Mr. Good has already made it clear he will seek a recount, an option under Virginia law, which allows such a request if the winner of a race is less than one percentage point ahead of his opponent.
SSI - In earlier story, Good the Lesser (so far) was hanging his hat/hopes on approx one dozen ballots found in ballot box on counter of Lynchburg city election center the day AFTER election day and added to the count. HOWEVER, note that Lynchburg (home to Liberty University founded by Jerry Falwell) is Good's best turf in the district.
Further note how both Donald Trump AND Kevin McCarthy are seeking revenge versus Good, while Steve Bannon is a major Good (in one sense anyway) backer.
Large scale electoral cheating probably died out after LBJ, whose Senate election was very probably stuffed sufficiently in his favour to tip it his way (though he'd also fought a pretty remarkable campaign), did it not ?
When in your view was the last national election which we can say was very probably decided by cheating at the ballot (I'll exempt the SC shenanigans for Bush) ?
It wasn't, of course Kennedy, despite what some here will tell us.
It’s completely unfair that France gets all this natural beauty (and better weather, and slimmer women) while we have Newent, Wick and @kinabalu’s golf club
I’m therefore trying to cheer myself out of my jealousy by working out what is the most boring, least interesting department of France. The obvious choice would be somewhere in Picardy but I think I’ve found a prime candidate
Creuse. It seems to be the ultimate nowhere land smack bang in the middle of the country. It has a tiny population with only lozere smaller (in departments) but Lozere is quite spectacular -moors, mountains, megaliths and ravines
Creuse has… farms. And a town that used to make tapestries. That seems to be it
Is it that bad? Has anyone been? How boring is creuse?
If we're comparing like with like then you'll need to see what if offers vis a vis Bedfordshire.
Hah. I did for a moment wonder about the “most boring county in Britain” and yes Bedfordshire floated into my head
Oi.
Nothing boring about Bedfordshire. Quite small but have some splendid countryside that is the equal of anything in the Cotswolds and market towns and far enough out of London to be beyond the worst of the stockbroker belt. They get as far as Luton (our London Inner City type borough) and turn back.
And no ULEZ, Congestion Charge or 20mph limits (except short bits by schools)
I can't imagine what it is about the macho, beer-swilling, one-of-the-boys laddish culture that surrounds Farage and his mates that women find unattractive.
Maybe Farage will suggest next woman shouldnt have a vote as the solution to his problems.
It’s completely unfair that France gets all this natural beauty (and better weather, and slimmer women) while we have Newent, Wick and @kinabalu’s golf club
I’m therefore trying to cheer myself out of my jealousy by working out what is the most boring, least interesting department of France. The obvious choice would be somewhere in Picardy but I think I’ve found a prime candidate
Creuse. It seems to be the ultimate nowhere land smack bang in the middle of the country. It has a tiny population with only lozere smaller (in departments) but Lozere is quite spectacular -moors, mountains, megaliths and ravines
Creuse has… farms. And a town that used to make tapestries. That seems to be it
Is it that bad? Has anyone been? How boring is creuse?
If we're comparing like with like then you'll need to see what if offers vis a vis Bedfordshire.
Hah. I did for a moment wonder about the “most boring county in Britain” and yes Bedfordshire floated into my head
Oi.
Nothing boring about Bedfordshire. Quite small but have some splendid countryside that is the equal of anything in the Cotswolds and market towns and far enough out of London to be beyond the worst of the stockbroker belt. They get as far as Luton (our London Inner City type borough) and turn back.
And no ULEZ, Congestion Charge or 20mph limits (except short bits by schools)
"Bedfordshire isn't boring because [checks notes] you can drive at 30mph" I was going to plump for Herefordshire, but you've just converted me to the Bedfordshire camp.
Like "Peppa Pig" from the amusefest that was Boris Johnson wasn't the fucking cringiest thing ever from a politician.
C'mon. Get a grip. Various people are just pissed off Starmer's winning.
I'm *bored* that Starmer is winning. Because he is being terribly boring and inoffensive. Where's the umph?
This bit is 'win the election' and barring a mega shock it's going to be a resounding success. Then, 5/7 onwards, he's PM. Will he be boring, cautious, ineffectual? Or will he be a good, maybe very good, PM who'll relax a bit more in public over time?
I hope and expect the second, but who knows? What I do know is that people writing him off on the basis he hasn't been a thrill-a-minute as Opposition Leader or in this GE campaign are mainly engaging in prejudice-informed guesswork.
No, we’re just mocking his cringe. In my comment immediately after my mockery (which seems to have upset so many of you so weirdly) I actually say This won’t matter as long as he learns from it. We don’t want or need him to be funny so he doesn’t have to try and he shouldn’t even try
After the last few years we will take dull but competent if he can manage it. We all know he has a tough task (I expect him to fail but I genuinely hope he succeeds)
What we don’t want is an inept politician who also makes us cringe. That will be damaging. Quit the gags Sir Kir
No point trying to backtrack now. You're really put out that he isn't making you laugh so hard it hurts every time you see him. You think it's a big deal that he doesn't (can't?) do that. So much of a big deal that it's cost him your vote.
No, you're missing the point. See also the Ryan Giggs clip. It's not just not funny, its the antithesis of funny. If funny is 1 and not funny is 0, what SKS and Ryan Giggs are are -1. Perhaps even i. It has all the cadences of humour, without the humour itself. It's awful and weirdly compelling. It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not. Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
I don't miss points, Cookie, you know that.
It's just a sweet and rather forced little story in front of a bunch of stony faced teenagers. THAT is what's funny - least to me - them in the background. The awkwardness. Lol. Poor kids.
But look, it was clearly meant to be gently amusing not bring the house down. And it fell a little flat. So the fuck what? People going on about how incredibly 'cringy' it is - they are the weirdos here. Eg it's absolutely nothing next to "Peppa Pig" and "Buses".
But the good news? Leon is not voting Labour. It's Reform for our gammon with a vocab.
lol. You’re SO defensive. Is it because you’re a bit like kir royale yourself so it feels personal? Quite fascinating
If only. I am actually - to my great chagrin and discredit - far more like Boris Johnson than Keir Starmer. I so wish could change that. Too late now though.
Jolly good of Parliament’s research office to keep a list of cabinet members who lost their seats at the GE. A list that hopefully is about to get a fair bit longer…
Comments
It can be that and also the more serious evidence of moral failure that you cite
I am one of the few PBers who is open to some populist right wingery but it made me think YUK - not least coz I’ve just come back from Ukraine and seen the widows and mothers weeping in maidan square
So even though I see sense in Farage’s argument - I believe we did handle Russia badly - Farage got it all badly wrong: tone, timing, sentiment - and he made a lot of people remember his prior links to putinism
Tsk and ugh
SKS- Private Sponge (Dads Army)
Sunak - Frank Spencer (Some Mothers Do Ave Em)
Ed Davey - Peggy (Hi de Hi)
Farage - Del Boy (Only Fools and Horses)
Carla - Barbara Good (The Good Life)
Personally, I don't get the Taylor Swift thing. At all. But each to his own.
Tut tut.
https://imgur.com/gallery/FE8DP8D
I am completely smitten with Brittany
Interestingly Belle Ile was British for a few years in the 1760s. Then we agreed to swap it for Menorca. Could we not have kept at least one of them??
My morning thread was once again visionary.
In the US, there are many elections with relatively small electorates, and low turnouts. Although there are fewer such elections, per capita, in the UK, I assume there are a few.
(Here's a small example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Stinson
As far as I can tell, vote fraud is more likely to tip an election in our primaries, than in our general elections.)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/25/labour-2030-ban-petrol-vauxhall-shut-down-factory/
To emphasis the scale of the problem - if you want to buy an Astra Electric car - most dealers will give you a 35% off the list price taking it from £40,000 down to £27,000 or so..
I have a few dividend paying stocks but am mainly index funds/ETFs.
🚨 NEW: Thousands of campaign leaflets for Conservative Party chairman Richard Holden have been sent to the wrong constituency
[@BBCNews]
BoJo definitely wins the most unfunny PM ever award.
Both the importance of postal voting, and the date ballots must be in depend, very much on on the state. Washington state, where I live, is an outlier. It is possible to vote in person here, but not as easy as it should be. Ballots must be postmarked by election day, so they can arrive, legally, days after.
But, I repeat, the rules vary widely from state to state.
Now off to do some chores. Back by Friday, at the latest.
They initially resisted, preferring to maintain a non-sectarian line, but the party began to splinter until they eventually abandoned neutrality and declared in favour of the union in 1949. At that point, the Catholic vote deserted them and they lost their only Westminster MP in 1950. They staggered on with a handful of Stormont MPs and councillors on and off into the 1970s, but never got close to the level of popularity that they probably would have had if it weren't for the sectarian issue.
One of the many, many what-might-have-beens in NI history...
I’m therefore trying to cheer myself out of my jealousy by working out what is the most boring, least interesting department of France. The obvious choice would be somewhere in Picardy but I think I’ve found a prime candidate
Creuse. It seems to be the ultimate nowhere land smack bang in the middle of the country. It has a tiny population with only lozere smaller (in departments) but Lozere is quite spectacular -moors, mountains, megaliths and ravines
Creuse has… farms. And a town that used to make tapestries. That seems to be it
Is it that bad? Has anyone been? How boring is creuse?
Labour = We're clearly going to put up taxes, but won't tell you which ones until we're safely in office. No real plan for the economy.
Lib Dems = We clearly will put up taxes, and we've told you which ones. Our plans will wreck the economy.
RefUK = We hate immigrants and anything woke. We love a cheeky pint, and Vladimir Putin.
Green = Welcome (Corbynite) refugees. Eat the rich. Free Palestine. The environment? What's that?
It's not just failing to tell a joke well, it's failing to recognise whether the story he's telling falls into the category of 'anecdote' or not.
Many people aren't particularly funny. But this is more than just telling a joke which doesn't land. It's, well, weird. And certainly worthy of comment.
I think Leon has said though that he still intends to vote Labour. Doesn't mean he can't then comment on the Labour leader's oddities.
Stellantis are the British Leyland on the 2020s.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/24/labour-to-hold-knife-crime-summit-in-bid-to-halve-incidents/
Jails are full, curfews, who is going to enforce them, so its ASBOS for knife wielding thugs (but none of that racist stop and search).
Actual sources of US postal ballot fraud are generally candidates, campaigns and/or their agents submit fraudulent requests for absentee ballots, either with false signatures OR by getting genuine sigs from voters under false pretenses.
Other potential problem, as cited by Jim Miller, is possible lack of privacy for individuals voting in family or other groups, though in my humble yet professional experience is greatly exaggerated.
BTW (and also FYI) note the following are reported by NYT:
The Republican primary between Representative Bob Good of Virginia, the chairman of the ultraconservative House Freedom Caucus, and his Trump-backed challenger was still up in the air on Monday almost a week after the balloting, as the two election deniers settled in for a lengthy and ugly fight over who was the true victor.
John J. McGuire, a little-known state senator and former Navy SEAL who attended the “Stop the Steal” rally outside the White House on Jan. 6, 2021, held a razor-thin lead of just under 375 votes out of the nearly 63,000 votes cast, according to The Associated Press. He declared victory last Tuesday night before all the votes were counted, and on Monday, former President Donald J. Trump, who endorsed him, declared Mr. McGuire the winner in a social media post.
But The A.P. said on Monday that the contest was too close to call, noting that while it would be unusual for a recount to shift the outcome of such a race, it would not be impossible. And Mr. Good has already made it clear he will seek a recount, an option under Virginia law, which allows such a request if the winner of a race is less than one percentage point ahead of his opponent.
SSI - In earlier story, Good the Lesser (so far) was hanging his hat/hopes on approx one dozen ballots found in ballot box on counter of Lynchburg city election center the day AFTER election day and added to the count. HOWEVER, note that Lynchburg (home to Liberty University founded by Jerry Falwell) is Good's best turf in the district.
Further note how both Donald Trump AND Kevin McCarthy are seeking revenge versus Good, while Steve Bannon is a major Good (in one sense anyway) backer.
Craig Williams, the Tory candidate in Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr who is no longer officially backed by the party because of the bet he placed on the date of the election, has posted a video on X with a message for his electorate.
He is pleading for his job. He says he committed “an error of judgment, not an offence” and he in effect downplays the significance of the Gambling Commission’s inquiry into what he did, describing it as “routine”.
He also highlights the work he has done for constituents, as MP for Montgomeryshire over the past five years."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/25/uk-general-election-live-updates-latest-today-tories-labour-betting-scandal-polls#top-of-blog
ETA: He does the weird 13.5 age thing in both, which is even stranger if scripted.
ETA2: I'm naming this nascent scandal Taylorgate. He may well Shake It Off but there's bound to be Bad Blood and Starmer increasingly looks like a Blank Space. We'll see the effect within the Fortnight - it could be a Cruel Summer rather than a Love Story!
See Bud in The Diamond Age.
Yes, I know I already own a second home 5 minutes from parliament, but I let that one out to my daughter, so I really need the tax payer to fund my rented apartment....I don't understand why you are so angry.
Add in the non-dreaming and third person stuff and we have a proper oddball coming into number 10. But then maybe that’s what Britain needs as we stare into the abyss
He doesn’t have a favourite poem or novel either. Hmmm. He’s the cliche of an alien trying to be human and failing. But again - that could be just the ticket
Tho TMay and Brown were a bit like this and they were disasters
The other aspect to the clip was the bored kids. I mean, it was a boring story, but come on kids - it might have gone somewhere. And even its failure to do so is interesting. And that's the future Prime Minister there talking to you. There is some top grade determination to be bored going on there. Absolute terror of showing enthusiasm in case it arouses mockery from your peers. Well done lads.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/21/china-spent-230-billion-to-build-its-electric-car-industry-csis-says.html
...China spent $230.8 billion over more than a decade to develop its electric car industry, according to analysis published Thursday by the U.S.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.
The scale of government support represents 18.8% of total electric car sales between 2009 and 2023, said Scott Kennedy, trustee chair in Chinese Business and Economics at CSIS. He noted the ratio of such spending to EV sales has declined from more than 40% in the years prior to 2017, to just above 11% in 2023...
..The U.S. has been increasing its efforts to support electric cars. The Inflation Reduction Act, signed into law in August 2022, allocated $370 billion for promoting clean technologies.
Kennedy pointed out the legislation provides a $7,500 credit for qualifying electric car purchases. That’s in contrast to the average Chinese support per electric car purchase of $4,600 in 2023 — which is down from $13,860 in 2018...
We should probably be trying to get them to build a factory over here.
We might be able to nick their tech, for a change.
It's just a sweet and rather forced little story in front of a bunch of stony faced teenagers. THAT is what's funny - least to me - them in the background. The awkwardness. Lol. Poor kids.
But look, it was clearly meant to be gently amusing not bring the house down. And it fell a little flat. So the fuck what? People going on about how incredibly 'cringy' it is - they are the weirdos here. Eg it's absolutely nothing next to "Peppa Pig" and "Buses".
But the good news? Leon is not voting Labour. It's Reform for our gammon with a vocab.
Serbia is being insulted on Russian state TV after information appeared that Serbia sold shells to Western countries.
State TV presenter Sergei Mardan called Serbia a “whore” and said that the Serbs are no longer brothers to the Russians, but enemies
https://x.com/den_kazansky/status/1805324291577196742
However thatcher was interestingly bohemian - liked a drink, good red wine or scotch - at lunch! - and liked artistic company. And she was seriously intelligent on any number of subjects. People used to sneer at her intellect - I think she had had the last laugh
Probably the smartest PM of the modern era? Wilson was famously clever but thatcher had a much broader vision
Of recent PMs I think Blair is the brightest
It's almost as if they're determined to make the case for not following the EU tariffs on Chinese BEVs.
As for the measurement, I'd propose a net measure not a gross one. So it's laughs generated MINUS cringes and offence given. In which case I think BoJo keeps the award I've given him. He comes bottom.
https://order-order.com/2024/06/25/holden-manages-to-send-campaign-leaflets-to-wrong-seat/
...know when to walk away, and when to run..."
But, and it's a big but, most voters aren't choosing their next PM on those criteria, and frankly they couldn't give a flying fuck if Starmer doesn't crease them up with laughter.
A bit like John Major in a way, only with a sofa instead of a soap box.
When in your view was the last national election which we can say was very probably decided by cheating at the ballot (I'll exempt the SC shenanigans for Bush) ?
It wasn't, of course Kennedy, despite what some here will tell us.
Nothing boring about Bedfordshire. Quite small but have some splendid countryside that is the equal of anything in the Cotswolds and market towns and far enough out of London to be beyond the worst of the stockbroker belt. They get as far as Luton (our London Inner City type borough) and turn back.
And no ULEZ, Congestion Charge or 20mph limits (except short bits by schools)
I was going to plump for Herefordshire, but you've just converted me to the Bedfordshire camp.
Kemi Badenoch brands David Tennant ‘rich, lefty, white male celebrity’ in trans row
Equalities minister says she will not be ‘silenced by a man’ after Doctor Who actor told her to ‘shut up’ and ‘not exist any more’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/25/kemi-badenoch-brands-david-tennant-rich-lefty-white-male/
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06691/SN06691.pdf