I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
What's the Unknown Stuntman up to today? 15 pint pub crawl drinking challenge?
I would like to see him complete some form of South West London pub challenge. Could he nail a pint in every SW postal district, culminating with a whisky chase in the Red Lion, SW1?
There is a lot of laughter in the room at this Reform UK press conference when Nigel Farage is asked whether Andrea Jenkyns asked his permission to use his face on her leaflet for the Conservative party
He gives the serious answer “I think the fact that Andrea did that shows you the depth of division in the Conservative party. They are two separate parties.”
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
Yes, it is indeed surprising that he would choose lager. I had him down as a squarely real ale man. But a decent pint of Tribute is hard to find on Old Compton Street.
I am the grandson of a bal maiden. The last child slaves in Britain - Cornish girls sent to sort rocks “up at grass” - in the open yards at the tin mine heads. They worked barefoot outdoors in all weather. She was 9, this was around 1910, at St Agnes. The absolute poorest of the poor
At the same time and through Cornish gentry (and before them Cornish aristos) I am directly descended - and provably so - from Saxon “princess” Maud Ingelrica and William the Conqueror/William Peverell, Norman knight, both of noble Viking blood - the fatherhood is disputed, the nobility is not
In that looooooooong social descent there is probably a toolmaker
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
No one will be surprised that I want to see the Tories ejected from office and crushed into oblivion as a political force.
I confess to having a bit of a wobble last night when the third poll in two days came out with Labour in the 30s. But by the end of the evening common sense had returned: Cons now averaging 19% in recent polls, Starmer's personal rating on the rise, tactical voting giving the LDs a boost...
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
Its rather I like that hip new band, the Arctic Monkeys....
I don't know how politicians get themselves in so a bind over this sort of question. Does anybody expect a 60 year old married man with kids to go on a big'un on the gay club scene.....scratch that, Michael Gove does.
Easy answer is in my younger days been in plenty with friends, a lot of fun. Insert self deprecating joke about terrible music you danced to, moved on.
Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer are taking part in a BBC debate on 26th June.
As we are now ahead of the Conservatives in the polls, I demand that Reform UK is a part of this debate.
If the BBC want a fight with me on this, they can have one.
If they continue their momentum in the polls it will put the BBC in a very difficult position if they refuse.
Imagine if the polls on the eve of the debate are something like Labour 36%, Reform 23%, Tories 15%. Would they still try to exclude Farage from the main event?
Isn't that more to do with him being the only one from his party on such programmes whereas the other main parties have a whole cabinet or shadow cabinet plus able to appear?
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
Not sure that is true. I'm an activist and I know a lot of others and I wouldn't describe any as left wing. All my experience is from the blue wall.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
I think a core value of the LibDems is liberalism (as opposed to authoritarianism). It manifests in protection of individual freedoms, dislike of coercion, tolerance of diversity within a framework of fair laws. It won't appeal to supporters of the nanny state nor to the anti-immigrant do as your told brigade. It's culturally progressive.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Would it be wise to look much beyond Sabalenka (3/1), Swiatek (7/2), or Rybakina (9/2)? Possibly not. All three of those odds have reasons to be attractive bets and a case could be made for any of the three.
I’m beginning to think @Sandpit that you were correct about Emma Raducanu when you suggested that her US Open win would prove her to be a one-hit wonder. However, she has shown a bit of form in 2024 especially in the Billie Jean Cup and she will be playing back on grass.
At 33/1, widely available right now, I think she’s worth a flutter.
This is not a proposition that she is going to win Wimbledon. It’s a proposition that 33/1 is worth a casual bet.
She's a serious contender for Wimbledon and 33/1 is a fantastic price.
Radacanu must be the most overhyped tennis player in history. The sponsorships she’s got are just crazy, I can’t believe there has been any ROI.
Well, Emma Raducanu won the US Open and was the first British woman to win a Grand Slam since Virginia Wade in 1977. She was the first qualifier to win a Grand Slam in the open era, without dropping a single set: beating the Olympic Gold Medallist along the way. That same year she reached the 4th round at Wimbledon from a wild card entry when she was still 17, so clearly not just a one-hit wonder.
She has been battling something, I’m not sure exactly what, but perhaps a combination of physical and mental issues.
And all I said was that she is showing signs of returning to form this year, especially in the Billie Jean King Cup. And she will be playing on grass. So the odds of 33/1 on her for the Wimbledon Ladies’ Championship are worth a flutter. I’m not saying she will win but that those odds are very attractive. And this is a betting site. No more, no less.
But if you think you know so much about tennis in general, and ladies tennis in particular, then do at least spell the person's name correctly.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
I think a core value of the LibDems is liberalism (as opposed to authoritarianism). It manifests in protection of individual freedoms, dislike of coercion, tolerance of diversity within a framework of fair laws. It won't appeal to supporters of the nanny state nor to the anti-immigrant do as your told brigade. It's culturally progressive.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
If they have loads of MPs in nice leafy places and a Labour government committed to a mass housebuilding programme, the Lib Dems are almost condemned to become the NIMBY party whether they like it or not.
Crickey the Telegraph are laying on the fear of the super majority...just think if Labour win a super majority your kids will live under Labour rule forever...
One of the beauties of FPTP is when the tide changes, it often goes swiftly. Yes a party having a big majority does have an advantage, if you f##k up, the electorate find a way to get rid.
There is a lot of laughter in the room at this Reform UK press conference when Nigel Farage is asked whether Andrea Jenkyns asked his permission to use his face on her leaflet for the Conservative party
He gives the serious answer “I think the fact that Andrea did that shows you the depth of division in the Conservative party. They are two separate parties.”
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
Its rather I like that hip new band, the Arctic Monkeys....
I don't know how politicians get themselves in so a bind over this sort of question. Does anybody expect a 60 year old married man with kids to go on a big'un on the gay club scene.....scratch that, Michael Gove does.
Easy answer is in my younger days been in plenty with friends, a lot of fun. Insert self deprecating joke about terrible music you danced to, moved on.
Everyone knows you listen to erasure in gay bars. Or Abba.
Thanks! The stroke was reasonably serious (4 days completely blotted out from my memory, but apparently I was in hospital), but it's left few physical marks - a tendency to want to sleep in the day now and then. Mentally it's left gaps when I'm tired - I was puzzling over the names of close relatives last night, which seem absolutely clear now - but I'm gradually returning to normal.
When I was a solicitor the medical records use to have NFF on them which stood for Normal for Fife. Dare I ask if there is an equivalent?
Seriously, its good to see you have made a good recovery.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Having the SNP and PC there really distorts things because they're not putting forward a programme of government for the UK.
Admittedly it is rather odd to have a nationwide election event like this containing these kinds of participants (i.e. those that most viewers can't vote for, and whose dearest wish is to persuade those who can to become part of an entirely different state,) and if we're going to have regional parties crowding everything then where are the Scottish Greens and all the principal players in Northern Ireland?
Oh well, no formula that the broadcasters can come up with will ever satisfy everyone, and there may well be different combinations of parties involved next time around.
Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer are taking part in a BBC debate on 26th June.
As we are now ahead of the Conservatives in the polls, I demand that Reform UK is a part of this debate.
If the BBC want a fight with me on this, they can have one.
If they continue their momentum in the polls it will put the BBC in a very difficult position if they refuse.
Imagine if the polls on the eve of the debate are something like Labour 36%, Reform 23%, Tories 15%. Would they still try to exclude Farage from the main event?
Isn't that more to do with him being the only one from his party on such programmes whereas the other main parties have a whole cabinet or shadow cabinet plus able to appear?
No. Farage is on more often than all of the Lib Dems taken together by quite some margin. Its a real irritation.
There is a lot of laughter in the room at this Reform UK press conference when Nigel Farage is asked whether Andrea Jenkyns asked his permission to use his face on her leaflet for the Conservative party
He gives the serious answer “I think the fact that Andrea did that shows you the depth of division in the Conservative party. They are two separate parties.”
She's the mad one, isn't she ?
You think there's only one insane Conservative MP?
@TOPPING I was not ‘called out’ and nor did I go off in a sulk. I thought you were being such a pillock that you weren’t worth my time of day.
It was an interesting story that illustrated something which is threatening to be THE single issue for a sufficient % of the electorate (not me) that it could totally overturn the entire fabric of British politics, and indeed already is.
So from that small kernel, great things have grown. You can stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it’s not happening but all that tells me is that it’s not happening for you.
Reform just crossed over the Conservatives, 20 days out from the General Election vote. And the main reason? Net migration.
Think about that. No, really. Stop and think about that.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
I think a core value of the LibDems is liberalism (as opposed to authoritarianism). It manifests in protection of individual freedoms, dislike of coercion, tolerance of diversity within a framework of fair laws. It won't appeal to supporters of the nanny state nor to the anti-immigrant do as your told brigade. It's culturally progressive.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
Is liberalism still a core value within the Lib Dems?
They have lost me. They supported this, which was the final straw for me:
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
Its rather I like that hip new band, the Arctic Monkeys....
I don't know how politicians get themselves in so a bind over this sort of question. Does anybody expect a 60 year old married man with kids to go on a big'un on the gay club scene.....scratch that, Michael Gove does.
Easy answer is in my younger days been in plenty with friends, a lot of fun. Insert self deprecating joke about terrible music you danced to, moved on.
Everyone knows you listen to erasure in gay bars. Or Abba.
This is where I was going to complain about stereotypes, but as a non-scene bloke it's entirely possible that I have spent less time in gay bars than Starmer has.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer are taking part in a BBC debate on 26th June.
As we are now ahead of the Conservatives in the polls, I demand that Reform UK is a part of this debate.
If the BBC want a fight with me on this, they can have one.
If they continue their momentum in the polls it will put the BBC in a very difficult position if they refuse.
Imagine if the polls on the eve of the debate are something like Labour 36%, Reform 23%, Tories 15%. Would they still try to exclude Farage from the main event?
Indeed - there's also the LDs to consider who are not far behind the Tories currently
Realistically the TV companies can't rearrange any of the debates on the basis of polls. Which do you use for starters? The most recent? The average over a month? A year? Farage "demanding" to be included is as ridiculous as his claim that suddenly Starmer is PM and he's leader of the opposition based on a single poll
Sunak and the Tories should have stomped on this clown ages ago. I wonder if the treasury will be going through the Reform Manifesto and telling us how much tax will rise to pay for it?
Won’t most people see Farage behaving like this and be reminded he’s a massive twat?
I see Putin has proposed a basis for a ceasefire which amounts to “give me all your lunch money and I’ll definitely stop punching you”. I can’t work out whether he is so delusional he thinks this approach has any likelihood of being successful or whether he’s so committed to the war that he’s deliberately trolling.
I guess we need starting points. Albeit red lines here that will be light years apart form each other.
I do believe there will need to be some concessions from the Ukraine side, but how this can happen I don't know - certainly I can't imagine any scenario that isn't also somehow up problems for the future (the whole Azov Brigade thing is real).
This war cannot go on forever. It's not about appeasement, it's about stopping people getting killed. Even the vaguest talk of ceasefire, I have to hope is a positive step.
I deprecate death and destruction of war as much as the next person, but I don’t think that negotiation in this instance is wise. Most people can work out that Putin will use any negotiated agreement as a way to reconstruct his forces and then come back for another slice. I think Ukraine and the allies are correct to reject any approach that gives Putin anything whatsoever. It’s not about appeasement but about a hard headed, but belated, understanding of the character of the person in the Kremlin.
Quite. He'll take what he can. The reason nations belatedly backed Ukraine this time and not over Crimea was recognising how the prior approach did not work and has led to more violence down the line. Slowly but surely nations will forget that lesson if they are not careful.
The 'deal' on this will be initiated by the US, when it decides the current situation cannot last. It will probably be similar to what Putin is suggesting. But it is unlikely to be a real peace agreement, because Russia will use the time to prepare the next attack. So the conflict which began in 2014 continues until such point as a strategic security settlement is reached with Russia. In the end you either destroy Russia, or you reach an agreement with it about the security situation in Europe, those are the two options. If you can't beat it, then the latter is the only option.
It's avoiding that scenario which explains why Ukraine has been so keen to put all these security agreements to paper.
Then, even if the election of Trump turns off the tap of US support, there's a structure of agreements with other countries so that Ukraine can fight on.
They do not intend to give up.
Ukraine are experiencing losses and are dependent on western support. If they didn't have this Russia would eventually physically obliterate them, even though they would have problems establishing a loyal regime in its place. Western support has to be aimed at some strategic purpose, ie defeating the regime in Russia, or reaching some strategic security agreement with it. At the moment it just isn't clear to me what the strategy is. It does seem like there is some reason why Russia can't be 'beaten' which I suspect is because of nuclear escalation, I would observe that the apparent threat of this only arises when Russia seems to be experiencing setbacks. So if you can't beat Russia then the aim should be the creation of some kind of settlement with it. Assuming this is the objective I am not clear if any progress is being made towards it. The fear I have is that there is no strategy at all and this is a popular war that is now declining in popularity and is tactically unwinnable, leading to a humiliating defeat and hundreds of thousands of avoidablen deaths. But I honestly hope this is not the case and Ukraine will prevail in some way.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
He and it are being engaged with to an inordinate degree already.
For national security reasons if nothing else I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
You're arguing that he be given special treatment. That's nothing to do with 'engaging with him'.
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
It rather suggests that whatever work they should have been doing wasn't that important if they could run mouse jugglers and it was only after tracking that did the bosses work out they were doing bugger all work.
I am the grandson of a bal maiden. The last child slaves in Britain - Cornish girls sent to sort rocks “up at grass” - in the open yards at the tin mine heads. They worked barefoot outdoors in all weather. She was 9, this was around 1910, at St Agnes. The absolute poorest of the poor
At the same time and through Cornish gentry (and before them Cornish aristos) I am directly descended - and provably so - from Saxon “princess” Maud Ingelrica and William the Conqueror/William Peverell, Norman knight, both of noble Viking blood - the fatherhood is disputed, the nobility is not
In that looooooooong social descent there is probably a toolmaker
Leon of the D´Ubervilles... Had you more down as Alec Stoke-D´Uberville.
By contrast, my father was a famous writer and philosopher, known for his nihilistic view of spirituality - an aggressive atheism - and his contentious views on Judaism, Christianity, politics - but also his brilliant prose style
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
He and it are being engaged with to an inordinate degree already.
For national security reasons if nothing else I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention.
I loathe Nigel Farage but this isn’t going away by sticking our fingers in our ears and pretending it’s not happening.
The best way to deal with him is to bring him into the spotlight, properly. Give him a good grilling.
Pushing him to the margins means he can feed more on the kind of Trumpian mass paranoia and conspiracy that feeds in the shadows.
Also catching up on various news titbits and polling, broadcasts, and debates.
I’m not sure how anyone interested in politics can describe this is as a dull election? It’s the most interesting, and exciting, campaign of my life. I guess for different reasons 2019 and 2017 were also fun to watch, and I appreciate that if you are a Conservative party worker this must be hell on earth right now, but for neutrals it’s absolutely fascinating.
There are still so many permutations, from truly landscape altering to something more nuanced. Can anyone really say they are sure which way this is going from here?
It is evidence that politics is subject to the same disruption as many areas of life. The conservative collapse though was foreshadowed in the 2019 Euro elections (why does this never get discussed) where they had a similar collapse/ 'extinction level event'. There was then a miraculous political reinvention which didn't last. What I find quite amusing is that, against this backdrop, people still cling to the idea that there are 'political norms' that still apply ie 'elections are won in the centre'. I think anything can happen, the arrival of 'reform' is just the beginning.
Every British election in my lifetime has been won by the party in the centre.
It's just the centre moves over time. And calling yourself centrist doesn't make you so.
In 2017-19 the centrist position was to get Brexit done, but we had self-proclaimed "centrists" who wouldn't accept the will of the voters in the Referendum. So the party that pitched to the centre won nearly 50% of the vote while the parties that did not lost.
Today the centrist position is that things are broken that need fixing and that it's time for a change.
The arrival of Reform is no more meaningful than the arrival of their predecessors like the BNP. They're nobodies who will get either zero or next to zero MPs and will never win an election.
What is it that is bothering you exactly about Reform? They have policies that based on your posting history you would probably like, IE dealing severely with violent criminals. The BNP were never the second most popular party in an opinion poll, or anywhere near.
I don't like racist, anti-immigration shitbags for starters.
So you are just pro immigration. As am I albeit with some caveats. But I don't think a policy of 'net zero immigration' is inherently 'racist'. It was actually the policy of conservative party for many years (zero net migration). Some of the people associated with Reform have a tendency to make personal attacks and slurs against others but this is definetly also true of some of their critics.
The visceral, reactive hatred of Reform just adds to their appeal and will propel them forward.
Sorry, no, those were two separate points, separated by a comma.
I don't like anti-immigration parties, that would be bad enough.
My bigger concern is that they're racist shitbags.
A policy of net zero migration is not inherently racist.
Nigel Farage (and many of the candidates attracted to him) however absolutely is very racist.
Rishi Sunak and Sir Keir Starmer are taking part in a BBC debate on 26th June.
As we are now ahead of the Conservatives in the polls, I demand that Reform UK is a part of this debate.
If the BBC want a fight with me on this, they can have one.
If they continue their momentum in the polls it will put the BBC in a very difficult position if they refuse.
Imagine if the polls on the eve of the debate are something like Labour 36%, Reform 23%, Tories 15%. Would they still try to exclude Farage from the main event?
Indeed - there's also the LDs to consider who are not far behind the Tories currently
Realistically the TV companies can't rearrange any of the debates on the basis of polls. Which do you use for starters? The most recent? The average over a month? A year? Farage "demanding" to be included is as ridiculous as his claim that suddenly Starmer is PM and he's leader of the opposition based on a single poll
Sunak and the Tories should have stomped on this clown ages ago. I wonder if the treasury will be going through the Reform Manifesto and telling us how much tax will rise to pay for it?
Won’t most people see Farage behaving like this and be reminded he’s a massive twat?
Don’t people say “won’t most people see Trump behaving like this and be reminded he’s a massive twat?” It doesn’t work like that anymore, it adds to the grievance, conspiracy and post truth politics that exists these days.
No chance BBC add Farage to their Sunak v Starmer head to head.
However more notable is that Farage isn't on the four person Question Time - which is Con, Lab, LD, SNP. He has more of a case for being added to this but I doubt the BBC will change things this late. I think they would only consider it if Reform polled above Con consistently in numerous polls.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Having the SNP and PC there really distorts things because they're not putting forward a programme of government for the UK.
Admittedly it is rather odd to have a nationwide election event like this containing these kinds of participants (i.e. those that most viewers can't vote for, and whose dearest wish is to persuade those who can to become part of an entirely different state,) and if we're going to have regional parties crowding everything then where are the Scottish Greens and all the principal players in Northern Ireland?
Oh well, no formula that the broadcasters can come up with will ever satisfy everyone, and there may well be different combinations of parties involved next time around.
Plaid Cymru counts as a major party in Wales, and the debates are considered to cover Great Britain, so Plaid get in... is the logic, I think. There's an argument that you should have an England debate (given there are Wales, Scotland and NI debates) without PC or SNP, but that's complicated by the absence of an England-only broadcaster.
The broadcasters are following Ofcom, and Ofcom makes decisions based on both election results and polling.
There is a lot of laughter in the room at this Reform UK press conference when Nigel Farage is asked whether Andrea Jenkyns asked his permission to use his face on her leaflet for the Conservative party
He gives the serious answer “I think the fact that Andrea did that shows you the depth of division in the Conservative party. They are two separate parties.”
Yes the Tories are now a coalition of Orange Book LDs and Reform sympathising rightwingers.
Just the former are larger than the latter, especially amongst the party membership and also a majority of those still voting Tory.
Much of CCHQ under Sunak though would be the former as most probably would the likes of Hunt, Cameron and Mordaunt and Chalk. Rees Mogg, Badenoch, Braverman, Rosindell, IDS etc though would definitely be the latter. Sunak trying desperately to bridge the 2 groups
By contrast, my father was a famous writer and philosopher, known for his nihilistic view of spirituality - an aggressive atheism - and his contentious views on Judaism, Christianity, politics - but also his brilliant prose style
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
By contrast, my father was a famous writer and philosopher, known for his nihilistic view of spirituality - an aggressive atheism - and his contentious views on Judaism, Christianity, politics - but also his brilliant prose style
That’s right, I’m the son of a Nietzsche-man
My father was a hirudotherapist.
That's right, I'm the son of a leecher-man.
Mine was the Labour MP for Oldham West & Royton. I'm the (...you know the rest)
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
We are engaging. We're saying bollocks to him.
However, good call on Emma and Wimbledon. She's a serious contender this year. Anybody saying otherwise knows jack all about tennis. 33/1 is value. Should be less than half that. I'm on at 38 on the Exchange.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
The Lib Dems will be the natural home for ABC1 'Never Farage' ex-Tories.
Not if they keep tacking left away from Orange Booking.
The Greens are the natural home for a left of Labour party now, most of the new LD seats will be ex Tory so it makes sense for Davey to shift centre right liberal in the next parliament
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
He and it are being engaged with to an inordinate degree already.
For national security reasons if nothing else I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention.
I'm not sure how valid this sentiment should be considered. Putin is currently prosecuting a vicious and illegal invasion. But he is not a Nazi dictator, and we are not currently at war with Russia. You may find recent warm words for Putin distasteful, but it is not democratic to treat those who've made such statements differently if they seek elected office.
I see Putin has proposed a basis for a ceasefire which amounts to “give me all your lunch money and I’ll definitely stop punching you”. I can’t work out whether he is so delusional he thinks this approach has any likelihood of being successful or whether he’s so committed to the war that he’s deliberately trolling.
I guess we need starting points. Albeit red lines here that will be light years apart form each other.
I do believe there will need to be some concessions from the Ukraine side, but how this can happen I don't know - certainly I can't imagine any scenario that isn't also somehow up problems for the future (the whole Azov Brigade thing is real).
This war cannot go on forever. It's not about appeasement, it's about stopping people getting killed. Even the vaguest talk of ceasefire, I have to hope is a positive step.
I deprecate death and destruction of war as much as the next person, but I don’t think that negotiation in this instance is wise. Most people can work out that Putin will use any negotiated agreement as a way to reconstruct his forces and then come back for another slice. I think Ukraine and the allies are correct to reject any approach that gives Putin anything whatsoever. It’s not about appeasement but about a hard headed, but belated, understanding of the character of the person in the Kremlin.
Quite. He'll take what he can. The reason nations belatedly backed Ukraine this time and not over Crimea was recognising how the prior approach did not work and has led to more violence down the line. Slowly but surely nations will forget that lesson if they are not careful.
The 'deal' on this will be initiated by the US, when it decides the current situation cannot last. It will probably be similar to what Putin is suggesting. But it is unlikely to be a real peace agreement, because Russia will use the time to prepare the next attack. So the conflict which began in 2014 continues until such point as a strategic security settlement is reached with Russia. In the end you either destroy Russia, or you reach an agreement with it about the security situation in Europe, those are the two options. If you can't beat it, then the latter is the only option.
It's avoiding that scenario which explains why Ukraine has been so keen to put all these security agreements to paper.
Then, even if the election of Trump turns off the tap of US support, there's a structure of agreements with other countries so that Ukraine can fight on.
They do not intend to give up.
Ukraine are experiencing losses and are dependent on western support. If they didn't have this Russia would eventually physically obliterate them, even though they would have problems establishing a loyal regime in its place. Western support has to be aimed at some strategic purpose, ie defeating the regime in Russia, or reaching some strategic security agreement with it. At the moment it just isn't clear to me what the strategy is. It does seem like there is some reason why Russia can't be 'beaten' which I suspect is because of nuclear escalation, I would observe that the apparent threat of this only arises when Russia seems to be experiencing setbacks. So if you can't beat Russia then the aim should be the creation of some kind of settlement with it. Assuming this is the objective I am not clear if any progress is being made towards it. The fear I have is that there is no strategy at all and this is a popular war that is now declining in popularity and is tactically unwinnable, leading to a humiliating defeat and hundreds of thousands of avoidablen deaths. But I honestly hope this is not the case and Ukraine will prevail in some way.
I think there is a divide in the West between those who think they can provide enough support to Ukraine that Russia will decide its losses are unacceptably high, and Russia will choose to go to the negotiating table, and those who, as I do, believe that it is necessary for Ukraine to reclaim their land militarily, as Croatia did against Serbia.
It will be easier to reach a settlement when Russia is no longer occupying Ukrainian land.
I think the comprehensive Russian defeat in the Black Sea, and the failure of their blockade, should give us hope that a Ukrainian victory is possible. And we should therefore concentrate on achieving it.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
And nor would I either.
I would consider myself a moderate Conservative but my voting preference (in this GE) would be Con, Lab, LD, Reform.
To me, the LDs appear far more irresponsible than Lab. The LDs would both tax more than Lab and interfere more than Lab - eg Davey prescribing the breaking of existing TV football contracts. I would also expect the LDs to cancel road building projects which Lab will continue with.
Am I the only one with such an order of preference?
There is a lot of laughter in the room at this Reform UK press conference when Nigel Farage is asked whether Andrea Jenkyns asked his permission to use his face on her leaflet for the Conservative party
He gives the serious answer “I think the fact that Andrea did that shows you the depth of division in the Conservative party. They are two separate parties.”
Yes the Tories are now a coalition of Orange Book LDs and Reform sympathising rightwingers.
Just the former are larger than the latter, especially amongst the party membership and also a majority of those still voting Tory.
Much of CCHQ under Sunak though would be the former as most probably would the likes of Hunt, Cameron and Mordaunt and Chalk. Rees Mogg, Badenoch, Braverman, Rosindell, IDS etc though would definitely be the latter. Sunak trying desperately to bridge the 2 groups
By contrast, my father was a famous writer and philosopher, known for his nihilistic view of spirituality - an aggressive atheism - and his contentious views on Judaism, Christianity, politics - but also his brilliant prose style
That’s right, I’m the son of a Nietzsche-man
My father was a hirudotherapist.
That's right, I'm the son of a leecher-man.
Mine was the Labour MP for Oldham West & Royton. I'm the (...you know the rest)
Jigglers not jugglers, and they are a huge thing (as I have known for the 10 minutes since I googled them). It shows how pointless most "work" is if what are basically RNGs can simulate its output.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
I mean it makes sense. Broadly speaking you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems. With Starmer hovering up the rest of the centre ground, that pretty much gives 80% of the former Tory base a home.
And I think part of this is why the Tories are struggling - there’s a ‘better version’ of them whichever way you turn. If they can’t rely on “Only we or Labour can win” then they sort of have nothing else going for them!
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
I think a core value of the LibDems is liberalism (as opposed to authoritarianism). It manifests in protection of individual freedoms, dislike of coercion, tolerance of diversity within a framework of fair laws. It won't appeal to supporters of the nanny state nor to the anti-immigrant do as your told brigade. It's culturally progressive.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
Indeed.
Many people forget that classically right wing economics is liberal economics.
America bastardises a lot of language unfortunately. More there than here the term liberal is adopted as left wing. So then the term libertarian tended to be adopted by those of us who are economically liberal and socially liberal too, but then they've really damaged that term too by seeing it adopted by racists and nutters.
In Australia the party of the right is the Liberal Party, which believes in liberal economics. I'd be quite OK with the Lib Dems displacing the Tories as the party of the right here too, but I won't be holding my breath about it.
Lord Newby was national secretary of the SDP from 1983-88 and chief of staff to Charles Kennedy from 1999 to 2006; he would be considered to be on the social liberal democrat wing of the party, rather than the orange book wing.
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
There's definitely a gap in the market that would open up even wider than it already has, and it's intriguing to speculate which of "Lib Dem plus wets" or "Reform plus dries" ends up as the main non-socialist party, because surely there's only room for one under FPTP.
But hitch up with the Lib Dems, of all people? My ancestors would be turning in their graves.
Jigglers not jugglers, and they are a huge thing (as I have known for the 10 minutes since I googled them). It shows how pointless most "work" is if what are basically RNGs can simulate its output.
They also can produce semi coherent posts on bppetting.com
Lord Newby was national secretary of the SDP from 1983-88 and chief of staff to Charles Kennedy from 1999 to 2006; he would be considered to be on the social liberal democrat wing of the party, rather than the orange book wing.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
I wonder if Rory Stewart has really relinquished his political ambitions.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
He and it are being engaged with to an inordinate degree already.
For national security reasons if nothing else I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention.
I'm not sure how valid this sentiment should be considered. Putin is currently prosecuting a vicious and illegal invasion. But he is not a Nazi dictator, and we are not currently at war with Russia. You may find recent warm words for Putin distasteful, but it is not democratic to treat those who've made such statements differently if they seek elected office.
Giving them more attention than the other minor parties is a little odd though, isn’t it?
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
He's the epitome of a supportive Centrist Dad! Would go to a gay bar and be incredibly stereotypically hetero while there. My step dad would be the same!
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
I mean it makes sense. Broadly speaking you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems. With Starmer hovering up the rest of the centre ground, that pretty much gives 80% of the former Tory base a home.
And I think part of this is why the Tories are struggling - there’s a ‘better version’ of them whichever way you turn. If they can’t rely on “Only we or Labour can win” then they sort of have nothing else going for them!
I think the idea that "you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems" is complete and utter balderdash. There is a broad range of opinion in the Conservative Party, and it's a continuum, not a bimodal distribution.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
I mean it makes sense. Broadly speaking you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems. With Starmer hovering up the rest of the centre ground, that pretty much gives 80% of the former Tory base a home.
And I think part of this is why the Tories are struggling - there’s a ‘better version’ of them whichever way you turn. If they can’t rely on “Only we or Labour can win” then they sort of have nothing else going for them!
I think the idea that "you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems" is complete and utter balderdash. There is a broad range of opinion in the Conservative Party, and it's a continuum, not a bimodal distribution.
I'd suggest there are at least 50 MPs in the Tory party closer in policy to Keir Starmer than Patel and Braverman and another 50 closer to Ed Davey. Yet they (nearly) all stick to the rosette in some weird loyalty ritual.
Comments
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar…
SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor?
SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/03/02/keir-starmer-labour-party-leadership-election-lgbt-rights-human-dignity-trust-trans/
There is a lot of laughter in the room at this Reform UK press conference when Nigel Farage is asked whether Andrea Jenkyns asked his permission to use his face on her leaflet for the Conservative party
He gives the serious answer “I think the fact that Andrea did that shows you the depth of division in the Conservative party. They are two separate parties.”
At the same time and through Cornish gentry (and before them Cornish aristos) I am directly descended - and provably so - from Saxon “princess” Maud Ingelrica and William the Conqueror/William Peverell, Norman knight, both of noble Viking blood - the fatherhood is disputed, the nobility is not
In that looooooooong social descent there is probably a toolmaker
@Nigel_Farage
The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
I don't know how politicians get themselves in so a bind over this sort of question. Does anybody expect a 60 year old married man with kids to go on a big'un on the gay club scene.....scratch that, Michael Gove does.
Easy answer is in my younger days been in plenty with friends, a lot of fun. Insert self deprecating joke about terrible music you danced to, moved on.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
She has been battling something, I’m not sure exactly what, but perhaps a combination of physical and mental issues.
And all I said was that she is showing signs of returning to form this year, especially in the Billie Jean King Cup. And she will be playing on grass. So the odds of 33/1 on her for the Wimbledon Ladies’ Championship are worth a flutter. I’m not saying she will win but that those odds are very attractive. And this is a betting site. No more, no less.
But if you think you know so much about tennis in general, and ladies tennis in particular, then do at least spell the person's name correctly.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/14/general-election-labour-supermajority-18-years/
One of the beauties of FPTP is when the tide changes, it often goes swiftly. Yes a party having a big majority does have an advantage, if you f##k up, the electorate find a way to get rid.
Oh well, no formula that the broadcasters can come up with will ever satisfy everyone, and there may well be different combinations of parties involved next time around.
https://x.com/sebwride/status/1800829980877939070
Also the question on what outcome people would like to see:
https://x.com/sebwride/status/1800829984078282868
It was an interesting story that illustrated something which is threatening to be THE single issue for a sufficient % of the electorate (not me) that it could totally overturn the entire fabric of British politics, and indeed already is.
So from that small kernel, great things have grown. You can stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it’s not happening but all that tells me is that it’s not happening for you.
Reform just crossed over the Conservatives, 20 days out from the General Election vote. And the main reason? Net migration.
Think about that. No, really. Stop and think about that.
And now I’m off out. Not a sulk. I have a life.
https://www.google.com/search?q=joe+he+was+a+young+cordwangler+lyrics&oq=joe+he+was+a+young+cordwangler&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBECEYoAEyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigAdIBCTEyNTI3ajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8d897600,vid:Dct_VJNLvAk,st:0
They have lost me. They supported this, which was the final straw for me:
https://freespeechunion.org/orwellian-police-scotland-blacklist-of-hate-incidents/
I do have a predilection for ABBA though.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
There's really no accounting for people's stupidity.
For national security reasons if nothing else I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjll01220yeo
treatment. That's nothing to do with 'engaging with him'.
That’s right, I’m the son of a Nietzsche-man
The best way to deal with him is to bring him into the spotlight, properly. Give him a good grilling.
Pushing him to the margins means he can feed more on the kind of Trumpian mass paranoia and conspiracy that feeds in the shadows.
I don't like anti-immigration parties, that would be bad enough.
My bigger concern is that they're racist shitbags.
A policy of net zero migration is not inherently racist.
Nigel Farage (and many of the candidates attracted to him) however absolutely is very racist.
However more notable is that Farage isn't on the four person Question Time - which is Con, Lab, LD, SNP. He has more of a case for being added to this but I doubt the BBC will change things this late. I think they would only consider it if Reform polled above Con consistently in numerous polls.
The broadcasters are following Ofcom, and Ofcom makes decisions based on both election results and polling.
Just the former are larger than the latter, especially amongst the party membership and also a majority of those still voting Tory.
Much of CCHQ under Sunak though would be the former as most probably would the likes of Hunt, Cameron and Mordaunt and Chalk. Rees Mogg, Badenoch, Braverman, Rosindell, IDS etc though would definitely be the latter. Sunak trying desperately to bridge the 2 groups
That's right, I'm the son of a leecher-man.
Well, two at least!
However, good call on Emma and Wimbledon. She's a serious contender this year. Anybody saying otherwise knows jack all about tennis. 33/1 is value. Should be less than half that. I'm on at 38 on the Exchange.
It will be easier to reach a settlement when Russia is no longer occupying Ukrainian land.
I think the comprehensive Russian defeat in the Black Sea, and the failure of their blockade, should give us hope that a Ukrainian victory is possible. And we should therefore concentrate on achieving it.
I would consider myself a moderate Conservative but my voting preference (in this GE) would be Con, Lab, LD, Reform.
To me, the LDs appear far more irresponsible than Lab. The LDs would both tax more than Lab and interfere more than Lab - eg Davey prescribing the breaking of existing TV football contracts. I would also expect the LDs to cancel road building projects which Lab will continue with.
Am I the only one with such an order of preference?
And I think part of this is why the Tories are struggling - there’s a ‘better version’ of them whichever way you turn. If they can’t rely on “Only we or Labour can win” then they sort of have nothing else going for them!
Many people forget that classically right wing economics is liberal economics.
America bastardises a lot of language unfortunately. More there than here the term liberal is adopted as left wing. So then the term libertarian tended to be adopted by those of us who are economically liberal and socially liberal too, but then they've really damaged that term too by seeing it adopted by racists and nutters.
In Australia the party of the right is the Liberal Party, which believes in liberal economics. I'd be quite OK with the Lib Dems displacing the Tories as the party of the right here too, but I won't be holding my breath about it.
Lord Newby was national secretary of the SDP from 1983-88 and chief of staff to Charles Kennedy from 1999 to 2006; he would be considered to be on the social liberal democrat wing of the party, rather than the orange book wing.
In related news, water is wet, the Pope is a wee bit Catholic, bears have been seen entering the woods with toilet paper and there’s a film at 11
But hitch up with the Lib Dems, of all people? My ancestors would be turning in their graves.