If the Tories come 3rd in seats and similar or fewer votes than Reform I think they will split, the right half merging with Reform the one-nation half battling on but squeezed out by the LDs over the next few elections.
The next non-Labour government really could be the LibDems sometime in the 2030s. After which, PR and coalition government for ever.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
They’re more just loyal to their careers and social class
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
I mean it makes sense. Broadly speaking you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems. With Starmer hovering up the rest of the centre ground, that pretty much gives 80% of the former Tory base a home.
And I think part of this is why the Tories are struggling - there’s a ‘better version’ of them whichever way you turn. If they can’t rely on “Only we or Labour can win” then they sort of have nothing else going for them!
I think there are a lot of Tories, me included, who wouldn’t be at home in reform or Lib Dem’s - the Lib Dem’s want bullshit like windfall taxes on banks and oil which I fundamentally disagree with. They are on the wrong side to me on what might be described in the loosest terms as “culture wars”. They aren’t particularly Liberal in my eyes so thanks but no thanks.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
Oh boo hoo.
Those who oppose racist Putinists are not wet, they're perfectly reasonable, rational and decent patriots.
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
Sweet Jesus he should lose for that dance song choice alone. What a knob.
If he wants Sweet Jesus, he's always got "One Day at a Time..", which seems to fit what he's doing for the next 5 or 10 years. A touch hard to find a version avoiding too much emotional schmatlz, however.
Speaking of the Lib Dems’ role in the next Parliament.
Say the seat totals are something like
Labour 490 Conservative 65 Lib Dem 55 SNP 15 Reform 5 PC 5 Green 2
Would the Lib Dems be able to approach the SNP, PC, Alliance etc and say “Let’s form a ‘Progressive Opposition’ to give us all proper airtime in Parliament - otherwise the ConRefs will just merge and squeeze us all out.”
The exact arithmetic will determine whether or not it is workable and in their interest.
But this could be a fascinating aspect of the next Parliament.
Perhaps instead of the above, Davey (or the next LD leader) waits for a couple of years of economic turmoil, then comes out in favour of Rejoin, hoping to peel off some disgruntled Labour MPs to join their ranks.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
Oh boo hoo.
Those who oppose racist Putinists are not wet, they're perfectly reasonable, rational and decent patriots.
Every time I think there's a chance to make yourself look an utter cretin that you've missed, you gird your loins and jump into the fray.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
Oh boo hoo.
Those who oppose racist Putinists are not wet, they're perfectly reasonable, rational and decent patriots.
Every time I think there's a chance to make yourself look an utter cretin that you've missed, you gird your loins and jump into the fray.
The only cretins are those like yourself who swallow every bit of Putinist propaganda they see.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
He and it are being engaged with to an inordinate degree already.
For national security reasons if nothing else I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention.
I'm not sure how valid this sentiment should be considered. Putin is currently prosecuting a vicious and illegal invasion. But he is not a Nazi dictator, and we are not currently at war with Russia. You may find recent warm words for Putin distasteful, but it is not democratic to treat those who've made such statements differently if they seek elected office.
Putin is certainly as a vicious and cruel dictator at home, as he is a violent warmonger abroad. I think we are fully entitled to note that any "friend of Putin" is a supporter of a criminal enemy regime that makes threats of nuclear weapons against us on a nearly daily basis and make our judgements accordingly.
Given the subversion, blackmail and bribery that we know Putin uses- openly funding the RN in France or the Steele Dossier on Trump, for example, we are fully entitled to question those who have worked for Russia Today: Farage, Salmond, or those who have had major interests in Russia, like Cummings, and Rees Mogg, Not to mention Aaron Banks regular meetings at the Russian Embassy. There are clearly questions that need answering.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
The Lib Dems will be the natural home for ABC1 'Never Farage' ex-Tories.
All this talk of Tory extinction.... LOL!
There's more chance of Trump winning the election than the Tories doing better than in 1997.
Yes but 'extinction' isn't a 97 type defeat it's falling to about 50 seats and losing Opposition status. The current market odds on that are still a lot longer than they are on Trump winning.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
I think a core value of the LibDems is liberalism (as opposed to authoritarianism). It manifests in protection of individual freedoms, dislike of coercion, tolerance of diversity within a framework of fair laws. It won't appeal to supporters of the nanny state nor to the anti-immigrant do as your told brigade. It's culturally progressive.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
If they have loads of MPs in nice leafy places and a Labour government committed to a mass housebuilding programme, the Lib Dems are almost condemned to become the NIMBY party whether they like it or not.
The Labour manifesto says: In partnership with local leaders and communities, a Labour government will build a new generation of new towns, inspired by the proud legacy of the 1945 Labour government. Alongside urban extensions and regeneration projects, these will form part of a series of large-scale new communities across England. That's big stuff. I personally applaud it. NIMBYs tend to be small scale "not in my back yard" on infills etc. I'm sure that will still happen and LDs locally will no doubt support them here and there. It's a broad church with local freedoms. But on the big stuff, I'd be disappointed if the Labour plans aren't supported. There will be some complaints about damaging ancient grasslands and protecting various types of insects, but people come first. At least in my book they do.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
Oh boo hoo.
Those who oppose racist Putinists are not wet, they're perfectly reasonable, rational and decent patriots.
Every time I think there's a chance to make yourself look an utter cretin that you've missed, you gird your loins and jump into the fray.
The only cretins are those like yourself who swallow every bit of Putinist propaganda they see.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
Oh boo hoo.
Those who oppose racist Putinists are not wet, they're perfectly reasonable, rational and decent patriots.
Every time I think there's a chance to make yourself look an utter cretin that you've missed, you gird your loins and jump into the fray.
Says one who never even looks like missing a chance.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
Oh boo hoo.
Those who oppose racist Putinists are not wet, they're perfectly reasonable, rational and decent patriots.
Every time I think there's a chance to make yourself look an utter cretin that you've missed, you gird your loins and jump into the fray.
The only cretins are those like yourself who swallow every bit of Putinist propaganda they see.
@Nigel_Farage The Tories are done. The brand is broken.
It will be fascinating to see how many of the always Conservative but never Farage Tories bend the knee once Farage is their leader.
Well I fucking won't.
And I won’t fucking either.
Neither will I.
Always the way with the wets. When asking the 'headbangers' to accept the latest bit of unpalatable eurocrap, it was always 'party loyalty' and 'get behind our leader' and 'why aren't we bashing the lefties instead of each other?' but as soon as the boot's on the other foot, party loyalty goes out the window, getting behind the leader happens (but with daggers), and bashing lefties turns into 'defecting to start other parties with lefties'. None of them have a shred of loyalty to the Tory Party - they are loyal to their faction.
Oh boo hoo.
Those who oppose racist Putinists are not wet, they're perfectly reasonable, rational and decent patriots.
Every time I think there's a chance to make yourself look an utter cretin that you've missed, you gird your loins and jump into the fray.
The only cretins are those like yourself who swallow every bit of Putinist propaganda they see.
Ok dear.
He's right though.
Oh is he? Well gosh, that's definitely going to make me revise my opinion.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
Lucky guy and I disagree on many things, sometimes quite fiercely, relating to Sunak and politics of the right but calling him Putinguy is a bit of a silly dickmove.
It doesn’t change minds, doesn’t shed light and doesn’t accept that people can have differing views without being beholden to an extreme.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
He and it are being engaged with to an inordinate degree already.
For national security reasons if nothing else I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention.
I'm not sure how valid this sentiment should be considered. Putin is currently prosecuting a vicious and illegal invasion. But he is not a Nazi dictator, and we are not currently at war with Russia. You may find recent warm words for Putin distasteful, but it is not democratic to treat those who've made such statements differently if they seek elected office.
Putin is certainly as a vicious and cruel dictator at home, as he is a violent warmonger abroad. I think we are fully entitled to note that any "friend of Putin" is a supporter of a criminal enemy regime that makes threats of nuclear weapons against us on a nearly daily basis and make our judgements accordingly.
Given the subversion, blackmail and bribery that we know Putin uses- openly funding the RN in France or the Steele Dossier on Trump, for example, we are fully entitled to question those who have worked for Russia Today: Farage, Salmond, or those who have had major interests in Russia, like Cummings, and Rees Mogg, Not to mention Aaron Banks regular meetings at the Russian Embassy. There are clearly questions that need answering.
I agree that we have to expunge almost every trace of Putinism that we can from our system and internationalist relationships, and for me that would also include Hard Brexit. I also am not a fan of the Putin as defender of traditional values thesis,
But on another level, I 'm concerned that there it too much of an ahistorical consensus, that Putin is exactly Hitler, or that this is exactly World War II. Not only are not the details exactly the same, but that can also be a way of shutting down any debate, and forcing us down one road or policy route, only. The UK media are not doing a particularly thorough job, in this respect.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
I think a core value of the LibDems is liberalism (as opposed to authoritarianism). It manifests in protection of individual freedoms, dislike of coercion, tolerance of diversity within a framework of fair laws. It won't appeal to supporters of the nanny state nor to the anti-immigrant do as your told brigade. It's culturally progressive.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
If they have loads of MPs in nice leafy places and a Labour government committed to a mass housebuilding programme, the Lib Dems are almost condemned to become the NIMBY party whether they like it or not.
The Labour manifesto says: In partnership with local leaders and communities, a Labour government will build a new generation of new towns, inspired by the proud legacy of the 1945 Labour government. Alongside urban extensions and regeneration projects, these will form part of a series of large-scale new communities across England. That's big stuff. I personally applaud it. NIMBYs tend to be small scale "not in my back yard" on infills etc. I'm sure that will still happen and LDs locally will no doubt support them here and there. It's a broad church with local freedoms. But on the big stuff, I'd be disappointed if the Labour plans aren't supported. There will be some complaints about damaging ancient grasslands and protecting various types of insects, but people come first. At least in my book they do.
More to the point, some (though not all) complaints about damage to nature are connected. The publicity material for one recent, successful campaign against a small housing project round my neck of the woods was full of pictures of barn owls and wailing about the despoliation of our lovely countryside. The land concerned was actually low grade scrub of little use for agriculture and with no conservation value.
What upset the campaigners abutting the plot was the modest amount of extra traffic that it would've created and nothing else. Pure, 100% Nimbyism.
Of course, the Devil, as always with these kinds of plans, will be in the detail. If Labour really is going to establish new towns then that's one thing; if they're merely going to force councils to let volume housebuilders do what they want then what we are going to end up with isn't thriving communities but soulless dormitory estates of identikit crap houses, tiny, shoddily constructed and marooned in a vast sea of roads and car parking spaces, with little or no other infrastructure.
Future generations will wonder, and not in a complimentary fashion, about the kind of rubbish builders have foisted on people in recent decades. As with rotten post-war concrete tower blocks, a lot of it is going to end up being demolished and replaced.
Very unlikely we’ll see that debate, even if crossover becomes sustained. I just can’t see Sunak and Starmer agreeing to it. So if it got that far the BBC would just pull it.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
I'm the son of someone who changed jobs (and moved house) every 5 years, so i wouldn't know how to categorise what their principal profession was.
I think they were a civil engineer at the time if my birth, if that is what counts.
It's the moment of fertilisation that counts. That's when your DNA is made. Even if they later change jobs, it's fixed.
My mother is a seamstress and my father was a cloth wholesaler. It's in my jeans.
I find the idea of the profession being written down somewhat odd. Do people have professions anymore? If you change jobs entirely should the birth certificate get updated?
That's the profession at the time of sprog's birth or own marriage (but can be qualified with 'retired' or, presumably, 'unemployed').
Death is a bit trickier, however - can lead to discussions with the registrar to settle on the appropriate description, but in my experience it's the most recent job plus 'retired' where applicable.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
Lucky guy and I disagree on many things, sometimes quite fiercely, relating to Sunak and politics of the right but calling him Putinguy is a bit of a silly dickmove.
It doesn’t change minds, doesn’t shed light and doesn’t accept that people can have differing views without being beholden to an extreme.
Ahh. Thanks, I appreciate that. I did call him a cretin (albeit in a roundabout way) so I dished it out and probably deserved a personal response. Here's to more convivial future discussions.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
He's the epitome of a supportive Centrist Dad! Would go to a gay bar and be incredibly stereotypically hetero while there. My step dad would be the same!
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
I think a core value of the LibDems is liberalism (as opposed to authoritarianism). It manifests in protection of individual freedoms, dislike of coercion, tolerance of diversity within a framework of fair laws. It won't appeal to supporters of the nanny state nor to the anti-immigrant do as your told brigade. It's culturally progressive.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
Indeed.
Many people forget that classically right wing economics is liberal economics.
America bastardises a lot of language unfortunately. More there than here the term liberal is adopted as left wing. So then the term libertarian tended to be adopted by those of us who are economically liberal and socially liberal too, but then they've really damaged that term too by seeing it adopted by racists and nutters.
In Australia the party of the right is the Liberal Party, which believes in liberal economics. I'd be quite OK with the Lib Dems displacing the Tories as the party of the right here too, but I won't be holding my breath about it.
While I fully agree with the bolded part, I'm not sure it's possible in the long-run because there is a significant part of the electorate that is socially illiberal. Unless Labour moves in that direction, as it did under Blair.
The Tories have won elections by doing enough to hold onto the Cameroon wing of the party (closer to Lib Dems) and the Patel wing (closer to Farage).
Is there a path to victory that doesn't keep both wings on side? The Liberal Australian party isn't very socially liberal, as I understand it, for example.
So I still think, for Tories (of which I'm not one), they are better off keeping their party on life support and trying to win back supporters from both sides, rather than throwing in the towel and folding one way or another. Back to local elections and support building. Wait until Labour messes up (just a matter of time, as with all governments).
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
He's the epitome of a supportive Centrist Dad! Would go to a gay bar and be incredibly stereotypically hetero while there. My step dad would be the same!
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
It was quite common during the Brexit era for certain Remainers to salivate about how the Irish lobby in the US would ensure Britain was put in its place. They weren't accused of stirring up hibernophobia.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
It was quite common during the Brexit era for certain Remainers to salivate about how the Irish lobby in the US would ensure Britain was put in its place. They weren't accused of stirring up hibernophobia.
I well remember *Brexiters* complaining bitterly how the Irish wouldn't just back down and roll over. Particularly Tory MPs.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
Odds on chants of Ooooh Nigel Farage chants at Glastonbury?
He’s still going to be more popular there than Coldplay.
Well...
Super Hans is never wrong.
Comedy is nowhere near as it was back then. So many iconic saying from Peep Show, Inbetweeners, Office, Phoenix Nights, IT Crowd, Thick of It to name a few.
What you are (Sunak), is an Omnishambles...You are like one of those coffee machines, from Bean to Cup, you f##k up.
Very unlikely we’ll see that debate, even if crossover becomes sustained. I just can’t see Sunak and Starmer agreeing to it. So if it got that far the BBC would just pull it.
Yes, no way. It would just give him a free hit, "two cheeks of the same arse", all of that shit. Not appropriate. There's no public interest in promoting Farage.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
It’s definitely not anti-Semetic to point out that George Soros is, through the Open Society Foundations, funding a lot of the woke nonsense in the US in recent years, including the District Attourneys who refuse to prosecute shoplifting and phone theft, and who think that rioting is fine if it’s for a ‘noble cause’ like BLM.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
George Soros is very political; the groups he funds have political objectives - that's not a value-judgement, it's a bald statement of fact. Does his (apparent) Jewish background mean his political advocacy must not be debated and discussed? That would make his actions immune from criticism or simple discussion.
I thought this was a parody, when I saw the excerpt, but it's real. Keir Starmer interviewed by PinkNews:
PN: Now I want you to imagine that you’re in a gay bar… SKS: Don’t have to imagine it, I’ve been in one many times!
PN: What are you ordering at the bar and what song is it going to take to get you on the dance floor? SKS: A pint of lager. And what’s going to get me on the dance floor? I don’t know… “Sweet Caroline.”
He's the epitome of a supportive Centrist Dad! Would go to a gay bar and be incredibly stereotypically hetero while there. My step dad would be the same!
‘Hey guy, d’ye like fisting?’
‘Yeah, gay pride!’
Pumps fist in air.
He works in Parliament, I doubt he's that naive.
The poor sod that handed out colleagues numbers after putting dickpix on Grindr seemed a wee bit naive.
Although Farage is twisting things, I think there is a bit of a fair point here.
The 7 way debates are just too many people, 3-4 is the max you can have. I am not sure why SNP, PC, have to be invited to every national debate and green's are polling very low amount.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Reform for at least one debate is fair.
Bollocks to him. He's had more than a fair share of airtime..
Again, this doesn’t help.
They won’t go away by us pretending it’s not happening. We need to engage with him and with the single issue that is driving their support.
He and it are being engaged with to an inordinate degree already.
For national security reasons if nothing else I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention.
I'm not sure how valid this sentiment should be considered. Putin is currently prosecuting a vicious and illegal invasion. But he is not a Nazi dictator, and we are not currently at war with Russia. You may find recent warm words for Putin distasteful, but it is not democratic to treat those who've made such statements differently if they seek elected office.
Do you have comprehension problems ? "...I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention..." is not saying he should be treated differently.
Being critical of George Soros is like criticism of Israel. There is plenty to criticise. But as soon as you go its the Jews, the Zios, they control everything, the space lasers etc, you are into the antisemitic tropes.
If the Tories come 3rd in seats and similar or fewer votes than Reform I think they will split, the right half merging with Reform the one-nation half battling on but squeezed out by the LDs over the next few elections.
The next non-Labour government really could be the LibDems sometime in the 2030s. After which, PR and coalition government for ever.
If you are small, splitting makes you tiny. Advice to small parties: don't split.
Some may defect to Reform UK, but it's a brave thing to do, to defect from a party with more seats to a party with fewer seats. It rarely results in you keeping your seat.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
It was quite common during the Brexit era for certain Remainers to salivate about how the Irish lobby in the US would ensure Britain was put in its place. They weren't accused of stirring up hibernophobia.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
I mean it makes sense. Broadly speaking you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems. With Starmer hovering up the rest of the centre ground, that pretty much gives 80% of the former Tory base a home.
And I think part of this is why the Tories are struggling - there’s a ‘better version’ of them whichever way you turn. If they can’t rely on “Only we or Labour can win” then they sort of have nothing else going for them!
I think there are a lot of Tories, me included, who wouldn’t be at home in reform or Lib Dem’s - the Lib Dem’s want bullshit like windfall taxes on banks and oil which I fundamentally disagree with. They are on the wrong side to me on what might be described in the loosest terms as “culture wars”. They aren’t particularly Liberal in my eyes so thanks but no thanks.
We're also very pedantic about the correct use of apostrophes.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
Odds on chants of Ooooh Nigel Farage chants at Glastonbury?
He’s still going to be more popular there than Coldplay.
Well...
Super Hans is never wrong.
Comedy is nowhere near as it was back then. So many iconic saying from Peep Show, Inbetweeners, Office, Phoenix Nights, IT Crowd, Thick of It to name a few.
What you are (Sunak), is an Omnishambles...You are like one of those coffee machines, from Bean to Cup, you f##k up.
That has massive potential for commercial venues such as shops and pubs, who don’t want to pay thousands for music licensing.
Also all those content creators who want Musak for their videos.
I am always being newly amazed by how William Gibson foresaw everything in the Neuromancer trilogy (written on a mechanical typewriter btw). There's a bit in Count Zero where an AI has to get round a bunch of spacedwelling rastas so it comes on to them as a voice on the radio "playing a mighty dub." And someone says Yeah it just listened to all the stuff you listen to and cooked up something it knew you would like. That's generative AI nailed in a sentence 50 years ahead of time.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
Odds on chants of Ooooh Nigel Farage chants at Glastonbury?
He’s still going to be more popular there than Coldplay.
Well...
Super Hans is never wrong.
Comedy is nowhere near as it was back then. So many iconic saying from Peep Show, Inbetweeners, Office, Phoenix Nights, IT Crowd, Thick of It to name a few.
What you are (Sunak), is an Omnishambles...You are like one of those coffee machines, from Bean to Cup, you f##k up.
My 15yo son loves Peep Show.
Its still totally watchable today. Isn't it supposed to still be one of 4od most viewed streaming shows?
I would also say it is what CH4 used to be really good at. Its edgy, its rude, its different (with the first person perspective) and its bloody funny.
As a Labour chap, I have to say that I find talk of the demise of the Tory Party to be both hyperbolic and distinctly premature, whatever the outcome on July 4.
The Tory Party will still be going strong when Nigel Farage is living out the end of his days in a care home in Kent (not Clacton) humming 'Rule Britannia' between sips of warm beer.
Speaking of the Lib Dems’ role in the next Parliament.
Say the seat totals are something like
Labour 490 Conservative 65 Lib Dem 55 SNP 15 Reform 5 PC 5 Green 2
Would the Lib Dems be able to approach the SNP, PC, Alliance etc and say “Let’s form a ‘Progressive Opposition’ to give us all proper airtime in Parliament - otherwise the ConRefs will just merge and squeeze us all out.”
The exact arithmetic will determine whether or not it is workable and in their interest.
But this could be a fascinating aspect of the next Parliament.
Perhaps instead of the above, Davey (or the next LD leader) waits for a couple of years of economic turmoil, then comes out in favour of Rejoin, hoping to peel off some disgruntled Labour MPs to join their ranks.
Tons to play for.
The SNP and LibDems have strongly opposed views, so, no, I don't see any arrangement making sense. Having any Alliance MPs take the LibDem whip would be plausible (that's what's happened in the Lords anyway), but that's only going to work in fringe cases.
The current Parliamentary rules about Leader of the Opposition and Short money and who gets to ask how many questions at PMQs, those could all be changed, of course.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
Odds on chants of Ooooh Nigel Farage chants at Glastonbury?
He’s still going to be more popular there than Coldplay.
Well...
Super Hans is never wrong.
Comedy is nowhere near as it was back then. So many iconic saying from Peep Show, Inbetweeners, Office, Phoenix Nights, IT Crowd, Thick of It to name a few.
What you are (Sunak), is an Omnishambles...You are like one of those coffee machines, from Bean to Cup, you f##k up.
Comedy is now much more standup and podcasts, rather than sitcoms. Fewer network notes and gatekeepers picking winners, and everyone owns their own material.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
I’m old enough to remember when I said “I suspect the Chinese are trying to sabotage Boeing” and the usual PB midwits scoffed at my conspiracy theorising
Et voila
“F.A.A. Investigating How Counterfeit Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, was sold with falsified documents and used in parts that went into jets from both manufacturers.”
LOL, the so the German carmakers don’t even want the tariffs, because China is their largest export market and they fear retaliation.
They're pretty well shafted whatever they do. That was inevitable once German manufacturers decided to supply China with the same tech their own industry used. Chinese economies of scale, and massive subsidies to their nascent car industry have completed the process.
Tariffs vs no tariffs is slightly beside the point.
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
I think a core value of the LibDems is liberalism (as opposed to authoritarianism). It manifests in protection of individual freedoms, dislike of coercion, tolerance of diversity within a framework of fair laws. It won't appeal to supporters of the nanny state nor to the anti-immigrant do as your told brigade. It's culturally progressive.
But on the left/right economic dimension I think it's quite a wide church with supporters of nationalisation of key industries alongside free marketeers. Keynesians and monetarists. Red LibDems and Blue LibDems.
So I think it is misleading to say our activists have always been quite left wing. They are liberal and culturally progressive which I agree is sometimes seen as left wing. But that's not the whole story. Economically it's a broad church with the centre of gravity in the pragmatic non-ideological centre.
There's plenty of room for freedom loving culturally progressive ex-Tories.
Indeed.
Many people forget that classically right wing economics is liberal economics.
America bastardises a lot of language unfortunately. More there than here the term liberal is adopted as left wing. So then the term libertarian tended to be adopted by those of us who are economically liberal and socially liberal too, but then they've really damaged that term too by seeing it adopted by racists and nutters.
In Australia the party of the right is the Liberal Party, which believes in liberal economics. I'd be quite OK with the Lib Dems displacing the Tories as the party of the right here too, but I won't be holding my breath about it.
Except even the Australian Liberals are in permanent coalition with the rightwing more socially conservative rural National Party, you need both wings for the right to beat Labour/Labor, here or there
I’m old enough to remember when I said “I suspect the Chinese are trying to sabotage Boeing” and the usual PB midwits scoffed at my conspiracy theorising
Et voila
“F.A.A. Investigating How Counterfeit Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, was sold with falsified documents and used in parts that went into jets from both manufacturers.”
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
Channelling your inner Jeremy Corbyn. Nice!
You'll be saying Jewish Labour MPs and Benjamin Netanyahu are pretty much of the same mindset next.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
It’s definitely not anti-Semetic to point out that George Soros is, through the Open Society Foundations, funding a lot of the woke nonsense in the US in recent years, including the District Attourneys who refuse to prosecute shoplifting and phone theft, and who think that rioting is fine if it’s for a ‘noble cause’ like BLM.
That link, nor https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/what-we-do/themes/justice , doesn't support your claim that Soros is funding "District Attourneys [sic] who refuse to prosecute shoplifting and phone theft, and who think that rioting is fine if it’s for a ‘noble cause’ like BLM."
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
George Soros is very political; the groups he funds have political objectives - that's not a value-judgement, it's a bald statement of fact. Does his (apparent) Jewish background mean his political advocacy must not be debated and discussed? That would make his actions immune from criticism or simple discussion.
But there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge gap between what Soros funds and what MAGA types (or Fidesz types) say he funds.
If the Tories come 3rd in seats and similar or fewer votes than Reform I think they will split, the right half merging with Reform the one-nation half battling on but squeezed out by the LDs over the next few elections.
The next non-Labour government really could be the LibDems sometime in the 2030s. After which, PR and coalition government for ever.
If the Tories come 3rd on seats but win more seats than Reform even with fewer votes I suspect they still remain a separate party. If they come below both Reform and the LDs on seats then they do probably split as you suggest if we keep FPTP (the only way for them to remain viable as an independent party would be PR where even just 10% of the vote would give 65 Tory MPs still).
The LDs on 10-15% and less than 100 seats are never going to form a government though, certainly not alone without Tory support as from 2010-15 or Labour support as they have done at Holyrood. That is whether under FPTP in the former or PR as in the latter.
Alternatively if the Tories and Reform merged under FPTP than a Farage premiership becomes more likely than a Davey premiership.
As a Labour chap, I have to say that I find talk of the demise of the Tory Party to be both hyperbolic and distinctly premature, whatever the outcome on July 4.
The Tory Party will still be going strong when Nigel Farage is living out the end of his days in a care home in Kent (not Clacton) humming 'Rule Britannia' between sips of red wine from France
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
I mean it makes sense. Broadly speaking you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems. With Starmer hovering up the rest of the centre ground, that pretty much gives 80% of the former Tory base a home.
And I think part of this is why the Tories are struggling - there’s a ‘better version’ of them whichever way you turn. If they can’t rely on “Only we or Labour can win” then they sort of have nothing else going for them!
I think there are a lot of Tories, me included, who wouldn’t be at home in reform or Lib Dem’s - the Lib Dem’s want bullshit like windfall taxes on banks and oil which I fundamentally disagree with. They are on the wrong side to me on what might be described in the loosest terms as “culture wars”. They aren’t particularly Liberal in my eyes so thanks but no thanks.
We're also very pedantic about the correct use of apostrophes.
Indeed. It's why pagan2 hates the LibDems so much.
Looks in, is stunned at the tone of conversation, goes off to read an article about seaweed farming in Scotland as being more interesting and elevating.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
Channelling your inner Jeremy Corbyn. Nice!
You'll be saying Jewish Labour MPs and Benjamin Netanyahu are pretty much of the same mindset next.
But I didn’t say that, did I? I was scrupulously careful not to say anything like that. Your comment is merely evidence of my point
The Israeli regime really does use “accusations of anti Semitism” as a way of blunting critique of what it does
And, as you know, I can hardly be painted as a “fan of Hamas”
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
I’m old enough to remember when I said “I suspect the Chinese are trying to sabotage Boeing” and the usual PB midwits scoffed at my conspiracy theorising
Et voila
“F.A.A. Investigating How Counterfeit Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, was sold with falsified documents and used in parts that went into jets from both manufacturers.”
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
George Soros is very political; the groups he funds have political objectives - that's not a value-judgement, it's a bald statement of fact. Does his (apparent) Jewish background mean his political advocacy must not be debated and discussed? That would make his actions immune from criticism or simple discussion.
But there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge gap between what Soros funds and what MAGA types (or Fidesz types) say he funds.
Very possibly, but the cure for liars isn't banning the discussion - that's grist to their mill.
I’m old enough to remember when I said “I suspect the Chinese are trying to sabotage Boeing” and the usual PB midwits scoffed at my conspiracy theorising
Et voila
“F.A.A. Investigating How Counterfeit Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, was sold with falsified documents and used in parts that went into jets from both manufacturers.”
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
It’s definitely not anti-Semetic to point out that George Soros is, through the Open Society Foundations, funding a lot of the woke nonsense in the US in recent years, including the District Attourneys who refuse to prosecute shoplifting and phone theft, and who think that rioting is fine if it’s for a ‘noble cause’ like BLM.
That link, nor https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/what-we-do/themes/justice , doesn't support your claim that Soros is funding "District Attourneys [sic] who refuse to prosecute shoplifting and phone theft, and who think that rioting is fine if it’s for a ‘noble cause’ like BLM."
Except that he did indeed fund the campaigns of a whole load of DAs who act like I said in practice.
Afternoon all. Long time lurker, first time poster! Interesting bbc interview from Wes Streeting today on the number of undecided voters and the danger of complacency.
For Labour to be assured of a majority, they really need to combat the "super majority" talk:
“I don’t believe the opinion polls for a moment," Streeting says.
“I think what the Conservative Party is doing, quite cynically at the moment, is to say to people ‘if you want change, you don’t have to bother going out and voting for it, you can put your feet up, or you can vote for one of the smaller parties and their wish list of promises, because Labour’s going to win anyway’," Streeting adds.
I’m old enough to remember when I said “I suspect the Chinese are trying to sabotage Boeing” and the usual PB midwits scoffed at my conspiracy theorising
Et voila
“F.A.A. Investigating How Counterfeit Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, was sold with falsified documents and used in parts that went into jets from both manufacturers.”
The metals market has always been a little wild west.
At this point, any one who DOESN’T suspect China must seriously lack mental agility. Ah, I see the problem
“Boeing's problems have become an opportunity for China's plane manufacturer COMAC is looking to pass both Boeing and Airbus in the international market”
Afternoon all. Long time lurker, first time poster! Interesting bbc interview from Wes Streeting today on the number of undecided voters and the danger of complacency.
For Labour to be assured of a majority, they really need to combat the "super majority" talk:
“I don’t believe the opinion polls for a moment," Streeting says.
“I think what the Conservative Party is doing, quite cynically at the moment, is to say to people ‘if you want change, you don’t have to bother going out and voting for it, you can put your feet up, or you can vote for one of the smaller parties and their wish list of promises, because Labour’s going to win anyway’," Streeting adds.
I’m old enough to remember when I said “I suspect the Chinese are trying to sabotage Boeing” and the usual PB midwits scoffed at my conspiracy theorising
Et voila
“F.A.A. Investigating How Counterfeit Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, was sold with falsified documents and used in parts that went into jets from both manufacturers.”
I propose a new PB rule: LEON IS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING (usually a year ahead of everyone else) APART LIZ TRUSS AND WHAT3WORDS
That's more likely plain fraud, not sabotage. The companies sabotaged themselves by trying to cut corners.
As usual, you look for the more complicated explanation (classic midwit behaviour, to borrow the term you learned from your Twitter followings).
But, I’m right
I really do get an extraordinary number of long distance predictions exactly right and, to be polite, you never ever do
"I'm right"...
Sure. A most persuasive argument.
The problem is rather that China has become a key raw materials supplier for all manner of industries, because it's the cheapest supplier. And doing due diligence on such suppliers is tough.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
If someone on the Left goes on about the Jewish Lobby it's evidence of antisemitism, but if someone on the Right does it's not.
I wonder what it first was about the Putinist racist Nigel Farage that first attracted Putinguy into supporting him?
I reckon it might be to do with Nige dabbling with the Jew hatred.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
It is possible to reject anti-Semitism while also noting that the Jewish lobby has an unhealthy influence over Washington politics, making a free debate about Israel almost impossible for ambitious politicians, especially those on the right
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
George Soros is very political; the groups he funds have political objectives - that's not a value-judgement, it's a bald statement of fact. Does his (apparent) Jewish background mean his political advocacy must not be debated and discussed? That would make his actions immune from criticism or simple discussion.
But there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge gap between what Soros funds and what MAGA types (or Fidesz types) say he funds.
Very possibly, but the cure for liars isn't banning the discussion - that's grist to their mill.
Blocking liars from saying things or having an audience is a very effective way of reducing the number of lies that get heard. Fining liars large sums of money also works.
Numerous studies have shown that blocking conspiracy theory content on social media leads to fewer people believing in those conspiracy theories. The conspiracy theorists moan about it and say there's a conspiracy against them, but it works.
In the US, the evolution of a large right-wing world of media that pumps out lie after lie has been associated with the rise of US politicians who constantly lie.
One reason bbc might want Farage on the telly. He’s far more popular than all the other parties combined. With da yoot
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
For me that would be a red line. I am bracing myself to vote Tory but I will not vote for Reform or anyone who does a deal with them.
Yes, about a third of those Tory voters and members still remaining like you would go LD if any deal or merger with Reform, though the majority would join up with Farage's party.
Reform would though also add a few of the white working class Leave voters they have been picking up from Labour who never voted Tory before Boris and likely never would again
One interesting question for post election is about the future of the LDs. Their activists have always been quite left wing, but if they elect a bunch of new MPs in blue wall seats then those MPs could well be centrist, if not slightly centre-right. If the Tories suffer an ELE, we could also see a split where councillors and activitsts on the right go to Reform, while the centrists move to LD.
If the Tories go Faragist, I could see Cameron joining the LibDems
I mean it makes sense. Broadly speaking you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems. With Starmer hovering up the rest of the centre ground, that pretty much gives 80% of the former Tory base a home.
And I think part of this is why the Tories are struggling - there’s a ‘better version’ of them whichever way you turn. If they can’t rely on “Only we or Labour can win” then they sort of have nothing else going for them!
I think the idea that "you can split the Tories into either Reform types or those that would be pretty much at home in the Lib Dems" is complete and utter balderdash. There is a broad range of opinion in the Conservative Party, and it's a continuum, not a bimodal distribution.
I'd suggest there are at least 50 MPs in the Tory party closer in policy to Keir Starmer than Patel and Braverman and another 50 closer to Ed Davey. Yet they (nearly) all stick to the rosette in some weird loyalty ritual.
Afternoon all. Long time lurker, first time poster! Interesting bbc interview from Wes Streeting today on the number of undecided voters and the danger of complacency.
For Labour to be assured of a majority, they really need to combat the "super majority" talk:
“I don’t believe the opinion polls for a moment," Streeting says.
“I think what the Conservative Party is doing, quite cynically at the moment, is to say to people ‘if you want change, you don’t have to bother going out and voting for it, you can put your feet up, or you can vote for one of the smaller parties and their wish list of promises, because Labour’s going to win anyway’," Streeting adds.
Welcome rkelk! But I don't agree. Labour's majority is nailed on no matter how complacent its voters get, because their principle rivals i.e. the Tories are so far behind. Lab could easily get a 100+ seat majority with only one third of tge popular vote. What matters in FPTP is how far first is ahead of second.
Comments
The next non-Labour government really could be the LibDems sometime in the 2030s. After which, PR and coalition government for ever.
Those who oppose racist Putinists are not wet, they're perfectly reasonable, rational and decent patriots.
https://youtu.be/JhUvFqOY00I?t=5
There's a peculiar version with post-beard Kris Kristofferson sitting under a back projected tree in a meadow fingerpicking on classical guitar.
Say the seat totals are something like
Labour 490
Conservative 65
Lib Dem 55
SNP 15
Reform 5
PC 5
Green 2
Would the Lib Dems be able to approach the SNP, PC, Alliance etc and say “Let’s form a ‘Progressive Opposition’ to give us all proper airtime in Parliament - otherwise the ConRefs will just merge and squeeze us all out.”
The exact arithmetic will determine whether or not it is workable and in their interest.
But this could be a fascinating aspect of the next Parliament.
Perhaps instead of the above, Davey (or the next LD leader) waits for a couple of years of economic turmoil, then comes out in favour of Rejoin, hoping to peel off some disgruntled Labour MPs to join their ranks.
Tons to play for.
Given the subversion, blackmail and bribery that we know Putin uses- openly funding the RN in France or the Steele Dossier on Trump, for example, we are fully entitled to question those who have worked for Russia Today: Farage, Salmond, or those who have had major interests in Russia, like Cummings, and Rees Mogg, Not to mention Aaron Banks regular meetings at the Russian Embassy. There are clearly questions that need answering.
“Farage is absolutely killing it on TikTok. So many fan edits of him, and his actual account has 662k followers, more than double the combined total for Labour (198k), Tories (61k), Greens (40k), and LibDems (21k).
Something is definitely happening out there…”
https://x.com/mikediplockre/status/1801610769093546063?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
In partnership with local leaders and communities, a Labour government will build a new generation of new towns, inspired by the proud legacy of the 1945 Labour government. Alongside urban extensions and regeneration projects, these will form part of a series of large-scale new communities across England.
That's big stuff. I personally applaud it.
NIMBYs tend to be small scale "not in my back yard" on infills etc. I'm sure that will still happen and LDs locally will no doubt support them here and there. It's a broad church with local freedoms. But on the big stuff, I'd be disappointed if the Labour plans aren't supported. There will be some complaints about damaging ancient grasslands and protecting various types of insects, but people come first. At least in my book they do.
It doesn’t change minds, doesn’t shed light and doesn’t accept that people can have differing views without being beholden to an extreme.
But on another level, I 'm concerned that there it too much of an ahistorical consensus, that Putin is exactly Hitler, or that this is exactly World War II. Not only are not the details exactly the same, but that can also be a way of shutting down any debate, and forcing us down one road or policy route, only. The UK media are not doing a particularly thorough job, in this respect.
What upset the campaigners abutting the plot was the modest amount of extra traffic that it would've created and nothing else. Pure, 100% Nimbyism.
Of course, the Devil, as always with these kinds of plans, will be in the detail. If Labour really is going to establish new towns then that's one thing; if they're merely going to force councils to let volume housebuilders do what they want then what we are going to end up with isn't thriving communities but soulless dormitory estates of identikit crap houses, tiny, shoddily constructed and marooned in a vast sea of roads and car parking spaces, with little or no other infrastructure.
Future generations will wonder, and not in a complimentary fashion, about the kind of rubbish builders have foisted on people in recent decades. As with rotten post-war concrete tower blocks, a lot of it is going to end up being demolished and replaced.
Very unlikely we’ll see that debate, even if crossover becomes sustained. I just can’t see Sunak and Starmer agreeing to it. So if it got that far the BBC would just pull it.
Nigel Farage has been condemned by the UK’s main Jewish groups and MPs for repeatedly using language and themes associated with far-right antisemitic conspiracy theories, something for which he has been previously criticised.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said Farage’s airing of claims about plots to undermine national governments, and his references to Goldman Sachs and the financier George Soros, showed he was seeking to “trade in dog whistles”.
The Brexit party leader, who has been criticised for agreeing to interviews with openly antisemitic US media personalities, was also condemned by the MPs who co-chair the all-party group against antisemitism.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/28/jewish-groups-and-mps-condemn-nigel-farage-for-antisemitic-dog-whistles
and
Nigel Farage has been criticised for referring to “a powerful Jewish lobby” operating in America.
Mr Farage, who was presenting his phone-in show on the LBC network yesterday, took a call from someone identifying himself as “Ahmed” during a debate on Russian influence in last year’s US presidential election.
“How come there’s such an issue with Russia, and no one really highlighting AIPAC and the Israeli lobby and their involvement in American politics and elections”, the caller asked.
https://www.thejc.com/news/nigel-farage-condemned-over-jewish-lobby-comment-hitsicm5
Death is a bit trickier, however - can lead to discussions with the registrar to settle on the appropriate description, but in my experience it's the most recent job plus 'retired' where applicable.
The generation after them, and thereafter, are the kids who will shift Europe hard right
‘Hey guy, d’ye like fisting?’
‘Yeah, gay pride!’
Pumps fist in air.
The Tories have won elections by doing enough to hold onto the Cameroon wing of the party (closer to Lib Dems) and the Patel wing (closer to Farage).
Is there a path to victory that doesn't keep both wings on side? The Liberal Australian party isn't very socially liberal, as I understand it, for example.
So I still think, for Tories (of which I'm not one), they are better off keeping their party on life support and trying to win back supporters from both sides, rather than throwing in the towel and folding one way or another. Back to local elections and support building. Wait until Labour messes up (just a matter of time, as with all governments).
Are we sure Starmer and Sunak didn't select the acts?
This is not a critique of American Jews as some devious cabal. They are just very good at organising and influencing and have been doing it for decades. Many others could learn from them
https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1801510246369681601
Germany battles to block Brussels clampdown on Chinese EVs
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/14/germany-battles-block-eu-clampdown-chinese-evs/
What you are (Sunak), is an Omnishambles...You are like one of those coffee machines, from Bean to Cup, you f##k up.
'I did more to destroy the BNP as an electoral force in Britain than anyone else'
Nigel Farage says he does 'not want, and never would want' the support of far-right extremists.'
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1801600721428640119
https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/
"...I don’t think Putin fans should get disproportionate attention..." is not saying he should be treated differently.
Some may defect to Reform UK, but it's a brave thing to do, to defect from a party with more seats to a party with fewer seats. It rarely results in you keeping your seat.
I would also say it is what CH4 used to be really good at. Its edgy, its rude, its different (with the first person perspective) and its bloody funny.
.
The Tory Party will still be going strong when Nigel Farage is living out the end of his days in a care home in Kent (not Clacton) humming 'Rule Britannia' between sips of warm beer.
The current Parliamentary rules about Leader of the Opposition and Short money and who gets to ask how many questions at PMQs, those could all be changed, of course.
Et voila
“F.A.A. Investigating How Counterfeit Titanium Got Into Boeing and Airbus Jets
The material, which was purchased from a little-known Chinese company, was sold with falsified documents and used in parts that went into jets from both manufacturers.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/us/politics/boeing-airbus-titanium-faa.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
I propose a new PB rule: LEON IS RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING (usually a year ahead of everyone else) APART FROM LIZ TRUSS AND WHAT3WORDS
That was inevitable once German manufacturers decided to supply China with the same tech their own industry used. Chinese economies of scale, and massive subsidies to their nascent car industry have completed the process.
Tariffs vs no tariffs is slightly beside the point.
The companies sabotaged themselves by trying to cut corners.
As usual, you look for the more complicated explanation (classic midwit behaviour, to borrow the term you learned from your Twitter followings).
You'll be saying Jewish Labour MPs and Benjamin Netanyahu are pretty much of the same mindset next.
The LDs on 10-15% and less than 100 seats are never going to form a government though, certainly not alone without Tory support as from 2010-15 or Labour support as they have done at Holyrood. That is whether under FPTP in the former or PR as in the latter.
Alternatively if the Tories and Reform merged under FPTP than a Farage premiership becomes more likely than a Davey premiership.
The Israeli regime really does use “accusations of anti Semitism” as a way of blunting critique of
what it does
And, as you know, I can hardly be painted as a “fan of Hamas”
I really do get an extraordinary number of long distance predictions exactly right and, to be polite, you never ever do
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/rockets/a27334344/nasa-rocket-fraud/
The metals market has always been a little wild west.
For Labour to be assured of a majority, they really need to combat the "super majority" talk:
“I don’t believe the opinion polls for a moment," Streeting says.
“I think what the Conservative Party is doing, quite cynically at the moment, is to say to people ‘if you want change, you don’t have to bother going out and voting for it, you can put your feet up, or you can vote for one of the smaller parties and their wish list of promises, because Labour’s going to win anyway’," Streeting adds.
“Boeing's problems have become an opportunity for China's plane manufacturer
COMAC is looking to pass both Boeing and Airbus in the international market”
https://theweek.com/business/boeing-opportunity-china-plane-manufacturer
Sure. A most persuasive argument.
The problem is rather that China has become a key raw materials supplier for all manner of industries, because it's the cheapest supplier.
And doing due diligence on such suppliers is tough.
It's not really even news; they were reporting defective titanium parts several years ago.
https://www.chinadailyhk.com/hk/article/243098
Would that be fair?
Planning de-restriction? "I'm with Keir here!"
Numerous studies have shown that blocking conspiracy theory content on social media leads to fewer people believing in those conspiracy theories. The conspiracy theorists moan about it and say there's a conspiracy against them, but it works.
In the US, the evolution of a large right-wing world of media that pumps out lie after lie has been associated with the rise of US politicians who constantly lie.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-supreme-court-backs-challenge-federal-ban-gun-bump-stocks-2024-06-14/