@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Just had a speculative bet on the tories getting under 50 seats at 14/1. There is no fight left or even candidates , Sunak is proving an utter disaster
@benrileysmith Now **eleven** Tory MPs have said they’re standing down in the 2 days since Sunak called the election
Andrea Leadsom (just now) Michael Gove Greg Clark Craig Mackinlay John Redwood David Evennett Eleanor Laing Jo Churchill Huw Merriman James Grundy Michael Ellis
How many more??
The significance is that if constituencies are only now learning their MPs are standing down, they have only two weeks to find successors for their often safe seats (candidates must be in place by 7 June). One imagines CCHQ might impose candidates but that can easily backfire as well.
I must say I don't really buy this spin about most of them thinking they had until the autumn and so being forced into this. One or two, sure, but anyone who has contacts who know MPs will be aware that MPs have had no clue when the election might be for ages, even ministers have guessed every date under the sun, so only a total fool among them would have not even contemplated what they might have to decide if an election were sooner than that.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
Certainly when you go to countries like Spain people seem happier despite their economy not being that great either. Better social bonds between people and of course better weather is likely the difference.
Not being miserable grumblers might go against our national character, but we may have been overdoing it lately.
By any historical yardstick, anyone with good health, in the modern UK, has won first prize in the lottery of life.
But, you would not believe it from all the whining.
So, those of us who are disabled, we get what, a lucky dip for the next draw? Unfortunately you can only rail against what you know, not what you don't.
It’s David Hume’s point about how his toothache troubles him more than the Lisbon earthquake.
She was apparantly the one asking the 1922 if she could send in her No Confidence letter. She lost all credibility after her 'she's not a mum' garbage against May
She should've been cast into the outer darkness over that. She denies it now, and says it was all a bit of a misunderstanding, but it was wholly deliberate and incredibly nasty.
Whatever the intent, it was latched onto by the party establishment to destroy Leadsom's candidature.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
The UK class system remains a ridiculous who's who of old school ties, secret handshakes and pecking orders. And we all know it. We're just not supposed to say it.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
I'm astonished that so many people think the class system is still important in the UK. Look at Keir Starmer - from an ordinary background.
What's the percentage of our PMs who went to public school? What's the percentage who went to Eton? How does that percentage compare to society at large?
Only 34% of barristers went to state school.
60% of charting musicians in 2010 went to private schools. Don't quote me on the number of actors. etc.
The disproportionate sway the 7% that were privately educated have over British public life is enormous, and we'd be fools to dismiss it, against all the statistical evidence. And I say this as one of the 7%.
Is it a Masonic Brotherhood, with a secret handshake where *only* those who know the secret code can get on in life? Of course not. Is it a club to which membership grants enormous perks, from networking with the right sort at an early age, to knowing how to behave at dinner? Of course.
The UK is as divided by class as it's always been.
Bit more complicated than that. I am just listening to early Genesis and I am not thinking it's good because it's by some Charterhouse boys but because it's actually good.
The Tories could do with some Stagnation in the endless hourly stories of their campaign disasterthon
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
The UK class system remains a ridiculous who's who of old school ties, secret handshakes and pecking orders. And we all know it. We're just not supposed to say it.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
I'm astonished that so many people think the class system is still important in the UK. Look at Keir Starmer - from an ordinary background.
What's the percentage of our PMs who went to public school? What's the percentage who went to Eton? How does that percentage compare to society at large?
Only 34% of barristers went to state school.
60% of charting musicians in 2010 went to private schools. Don't quote me on the number of actors. etc.
The disproportionate sway the 7% that were privately educated have over British public life is enormous, and we'd be fools to dismiss it, against all the statistical evidence. And I say this as one of the 7%.
Is it a Masonic Brotherhood, with a secret handshake where *only* those who know the secret code can get on in life? Of course not. Is it a club to which membership grants enormous perks, from networking with the right sort at an early age, to knowing how to behave at dinner? Of course.
The UK is as divided by class as it's always been.
It’s not as simple as secret handshakes. It’s because Public/Private schools have facilities and extracurricular activities that lend themselves to success in a lot of these sectors.
Debating societies are big at public schools, and debating from a young age either attracts kids to the cut and thrust of being a barrister or gives them an advantage in years of soft practice. Public schools usually have a couple of theatres and each house does annual plays along with school plays and side productions and the facilities and grounds make it possible for theatre troupes to perform easily and regularly so again, pupils get exposure and experience.
It’s not that state school kids are missing out on contacts more that state schools cannot provide the facilities, time, money, desire, to do the things that make entry into these areas easier, or frankly make it something that their students are aware of as a career.
First stop is to change the school system so they don’t all fuck off home at 3pm and school is until at least 6pm, preferably with every pupil having some food, and doing their homework on premises and doing activities in these extra hours - these extra hours that stop one of the parents having to work part time to get home to look after the kids at 3pm which would improve productivity.
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Perhaps he’ll end up having to ask Farage to stand as a Tory candidate.
@benrileysmith Now **eleven** Tory MPs have said they’re standing down in the 2 days since Sunak called the election
Andrea Leadsom (just now) Michael Gove Greg Clark Craig Mackinlay John Redwood David Evennett Eleanor Laing Jo Churchill Huw Merriman James Grundy Michael Ellis
How many more??
The significance is that if constituencies are only now learning their MPs are standing down, they have only two weeks to find successors for their often safe seats (candidates must be in place by 7 June). One imagines CCHQ might impose candidates but that can easily backfire as well.
I must say I don't really buy this spin about most of them thinking they had until the autumn and so being forced into this. One or two, sure, but anyone who has contacts who know MPs will be aware that MPs have had no clue when the election might be for ages, even ministers have guessed every date under the sun, so only a total fool among them would have not even contemplated what they might have to decide if an election were sooner than that.
would you go to an interview when you knew you were not going to get the job? or go on holiday instead?
Has anyone ever been to a comedy show with an unknown comedian who has, for one reason or another, fallen flat at the start of the show? No laughter and awkward silence for the first few jokes.
When I've seen it happen it ends up with a downward spiral. The comedian is less relaxed, more techy, less funny than they usually are. The audience is suspicious, expecting to find fault with each joke.
This is how the start to the Tory election campaign has felt to me.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
This header has made me realise I have to vote for the first time since 2010....whoever will keep the lib dem idiot out as I live in exmouth now
You’ll be voting Tory then. Well done Rishi.
No I will vote for whoever is best placed to keep a lib dem out, frankly I will even vote green or hitler or pol pot or labour if it means the lib dems don't get a seat
@benrileysmith Now **eleven** Tory MPs have said they’re standing down in the 2 days since Sunak called the election
Andrea Leadsom (just now) Michael Gove Greg Clark Craig Mackinlay John Redwood David Evennett Eleanor Laing Jo Churchill Huw Merriman James Grundy Michael Ellis
How many more??
The significance is that if constituencies are only now learning their MPs are standing down, they have only two weeks to find successors for their often safe seats (candidates must be in place by 7 June). One imagines CCHQ might impose candidates but that can easily backfire as well.
I must say I don't really buy this spin about most of them thinking they had until the autumn and so being forced into this. One or two, sure, but anyone who has contacts who know MPs will be aware that MPs have had no clue when the election might be for ages, even ministers have guessed every date under the sun, so only a total fool among them would have not even contemplated what they might have to decide if an election were sooner than that.
would you go to an interview when you knew you were not going to get the job? or go on holiday instead?
Plenty of us have stood as candidates for local or national when we knew there was no chance at all of being elected.
Has anyone ever been to a comedy show with an unknown comedian who has, for one reason or another, fallen flat at the start of the show? No laughter and awkward silence for the first few jokes.
When I've seen it happen it ends up with a downward spiral. The comedian is less relaxed, more techy, less funny than they usually are. The audience is suspicious, expecting to find fault with each joke.
This is how the start to the Tory election campaign has felt to me.
I suspect the tory campaign might unwind completely by July... it could get really ugly.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
The UK class system remains a ridiculous who's who of old school ties, secret handshakes and pecking orders. And we all know it. We're just not supposed to say it.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
I'm astonished that so many people think the class system is still important in the UK. Look at Keir Starmer - from an ordinary background.
What's the percentage of our PMs who went to public school? What's the percentage who went to Eton? How does that percentage compare to society at large?
Only 34% of barristers went to state school.
60% of charting musicians in 2010 went to private schools. Don't quote me on the number of actors. etc.
The disproportionate sway the 7% that were privately educated have over British public life is enormous, and we'd be fools to dismiss it, against all the statistical evidence. And I say this as one of the 7%.
Is it a Masonic Brotherhood, with a secret handshake where *only* those who know the secret code can get on in life? Of course not. Is it a club to which membership grants enormous perks, from networking with the right sort at an early age, to knowing how to behave at dinner? Of course.
The UK is as divided by class as it's always been.
It’s not as simple as secret handshakes. It’s because Public/Private schools have facilities and extracurricular activities that lend themselves to success in a lot of these sectors.
Debating societies are big at public schools, and debating from a young age either attracts kids to the cut and thrust of being a barrister or gives them an advantage in years of soft practice. Public schools usually have a couple of theatres and each house does annual plays along with school plays and side productions and the facilities and grounds make it possible for theatre troupes to perform easily and regularly so again, pupils get exposure and experience.
It’s not that state school kids are missing out on contacts more that state schools cannot provide the facilities, time, money, desire, to do the things that make entry into these areas easier, or frankly make it something that their students are aware of as a career.
First stop is to change the school system so they don’t all fuck off home at 3pm and school is until at least 6pm, preferably with every pupil having some food, and doing their homework on premises and doing activities in these extra hours - these extra hours that stop one of the parents having to work part time to get home to look after the kids at 3pm which would improve productivity.
Shame about the loss of playing fields, though. Council libraries. And so on.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
The UK class system remains a ridiculous who's who of old school ties, secret handshakes and pecking orders. And we all know it. We're just not supposed to say it.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
I'm astonished that so many people think the class system is still important in the UK. Look at Keir Starmer - from an ordinary background.
What's the percentage of our PMs who went to public school? What's the percentage who went to Eton? How does that percentage compare to society at large?
Only 34% of barristers went to state school.
60% of charting musicians in 2010 went to private schools. Don't quote me on the number of actors. etc.
The disproportionate sway the 7% that were privately educated have over British public life is enormous, and we'd be fools to dismiss it, against all the statistical evidence. And I say this as one of the 7%.
Is it a Masonic Brotherhood, with a secret handshake where *only* those who know the secret code can get on in life? Of course not. Is it a club to which membership grants enormous perks, from networking with the right sort at an early age, to knowing how to behave at dinner? Of course.
The UK is as divided by class as it's always been.
Bit more complicated than that. I am just listening to early Genesis and I am not thinking it's good because it's by some Charterhouse boys but because it's actually good.
The Tories could do with some Stagnation in the endless hourly stories of their campaign disasterthon
@benrileysmith Now **eleven** Tory MPs have said they’re standing down in the 2 days since Sunak called the election
Andrea Leadsom (just now) Michael Gove Greg Clark Craig Mackinlay John Redwood David Evennett Eleanor Laing Jo Churchill Huw Merriman James Grundy Michael Ellis
How many more??
The significance is that if constituencies are only now learning their MPs are standing down, they have only two weeks to find successors for their often safe seats (candidates must be in place by 7 June). One imagines CCHQ might impose candidates but that can easily backfire as well.
I must say I don't really buy this spin about most of them thinking they had until the autumn and so being forced into this. One or two, sure, but anyone who has contacts who know MPs will be aware that MPs have had no clue when the election might be for ages, even ministers have guessed every date under the sun, so only a total fool among them would have not even contemplated what they might have to decide if an election were sooner than that.
would you go to an interview when you knew you were not going to get the job? or go on holiday instead?
Plenty of us have stood as candidates for local or national when we knew there was no chance at all of being elected.
Bit more complicated than that. I am just listening to early Genesis and I am not thinking it's good because it's by some Charterhouse boys but because it's actually good.
Apparently at the cabinet meeting on Wednesday, Nutsack quoted "The Knife"
We have won Some of you are going to die Martyrs of course to the freedom that I shall provide
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
Because its not exclusively shit here?
Sure this country is probably ok compared to Afghanistan. Not saying much though is it.
Has anyone ever been to a comedy show with an unknown comedian who has, for one reason or another, fallen flat at the start of the show? No laughter and awkward silence for the first few jokes.
When I've seen it happen it ends up with a downward spiral. The comedian is less relaxed, more techy, less funny than they usually are. The audience is suspicious, expecting to find fault with each joke.
This is how the start to the Tory election campaign has felt to me.
The difference is at least a comedian comes prepared with a plan of what jokes to tell, events can cause this to fail. The Tories appear to have zero plan.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
The UK class system remains a ridiculous who's who of old school ties, secret handshakes and pecking orders. And we all know it. We're just not supposed to say it.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
I'm astonished that so many people think the class system is still important in the UK. Look at Keir Starmer - from an ordinary background.
What's the percentage of our PMs who went to public school? What's the percentage who went to Eton? How does that percentage compare to society at large?
Only 34% of barristers went to state school.
60% of charting musicians in 2010 went to private schools. Don't quote me on the number of actors. etc.
The disproportionate sway the 7% that were privately educated have over British public life is enormous, and we'd be fools to dismiss it, against all the statistical evidence. And I say this as one of the 7%.
Is it a Masonic Brotherhood, with a secret handshake where *only* those who know the secret code can get on in life? Of course not. Is it a club to which membership grants enormous perks, from networking with the right sort at an early age, to knowing how to behave at dinner? Of course.
The UK is as divided by class as it's always been.
Bit more complicated than that. I am just listening to early Genesis and I am not thinking it's good because it's by some Charterhouse boys but because it's actually good.
On the subject that Genesis were awesome, you will get no disagreement from me. Radiohead of course were at Abingdon, where there might be more disagreement.
As someone who lived and worked outside the UK for a few years, it's really noticeable when you come back, how riven by the pecking order we all remain. There will be exceptions outside that for good or for evil - nobody is suggesting Girls Aloud went to Cheltenham Ladies. But statistically, whether you want to be an actress/musician or the next PM, going to the right school does seem to be a bit of a leg up.
I think the UK has done a fantastic job of *looking* more meritocratic than it used to be in the latter 20th century, but have things really changed that much? The continuing dominance of poshos be it in music/theatre, business or politics, suggests not.
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
The list will include some who have already said they are definitely running now changing their minds. Has to. And not just people who said a while back they were definitely running. Easy to say "yes I'm running" and then start knocking on doors and realise you're going to get thrashed.
Do the Tories have a contingency plan to fill seats they currently hold? Press-ganging councillors to run. But a lot of councillors don't want to be MPs. Easy enough to accidentally make a mistake on your paperwork.
I think we could see seats that currently have a Tory MP not have a Tory candidate...
She was apparantly the one asking the 1922 if she could send in her No Confidence letter. She lost all credibility after her 'she's not a mum' garbage against May
She should've been cast into the outer darkness over that. She denies it now, and says it was all a bit of a misunderstanding, but it was wholly deliberate and incredibly nasty.
Indeed so. I find her deeply unpleasant.
Sometimes nicknames are apt, as in Loathsome's case.
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Just had a speculative bet on the tories getting under 50 seats at 14/1. There is no fight left or even candidates , Sunak is proving an utter disaster
Anyone who spends one second of their life feeling inferior to toffs is a bit of an idiot imo.
How people feel about toffs is not the main issue. It's whether toffs, or others, have outsized influence that is stubbornly ingrained by our institutions and culture.
This header has made me realise I have to vote for the first time since 2010....whoever will keep the lib dem idiot out as I live in exmouth now
You’ll be voting Tory then. Well done Rishi.
A vote from the person who wants over 80s to be killed was THE plum endorsement. The opposition parties must be distraught that sensible, stable centrists like Pagan2 are breaking Conservative. Five more years! Five more years!
erm I have never asked for over 80's to be killed nor have I voted conservative in 2015, 2017 nor 2019 and even this time would only vote tory tactically if it kept a lib dem psycho out of a seat
Anyone who spends one second of their life feeling inferior to toffs is a bit of an idiot imo.
In my experience, proper poshos aren't a problem, met loads at uni and had a good laugh (despite me being just a lad from Stoke whose parents didn't go to uni) is the ones that are trying hard to seem like they are.
@benrileysmith Now **eleven** Tory MPs have said they’re standing down in the 2 days since Sunak called the election
Andrea Leadsom (just now) Michael Gove Greg Clark Craig Mackinlay John Redwood David Evennett Eleanor Laing Jo Churchill Huw Merriman James Grundy Michael Ellis
How many more??
The significance is that if constituencies are only now learning their MPs are standing down, they have only two weeks to find successors for their often safe seats (candidates must be in place by 7 June). One imagines CCHQ might impose candidates but that can easily backfire as well.
I must say I don't really buy this spin about most of them thinking they had until the autumn and so being forced into this. One or two, sure, but anyone who has contacts who know MPs will be aware that MPs have had no clue when the election might be for ages, even ministers have guessed every date under the sun, so only a total fool among them would have not even contemplated what they might have to decide if an election were sooner than that.
would you go to an interview when you knew you were not going to get the job? or go on holiday instead?
Plenty of us have stood as candidates for local or national when we knew there was no chance at all of being elected.
@benrileysmith Now **eleven** Tory MPs have said they’re standing down in the 2 days since Sunak called the election
Andrea Leadsom (just now) Michael Gove Greg Clark Craig Mackinlay John Redwood David Evennett Eleanor Laing Jo Churchill Huw Merriman James Grundy Michael Ellis
How many more??
The significance is that if constituencies are only now learning their MPs are standing down, they have only two weeks to find successors for their often safe seats (candidates must be in place by 7 June). One imagines CCHQ might impose candidates but that can easily backfire as well.
I must say I don't really buy this spin about most of them thinking they had until the autumn and so being forced into this. One or two, sure, but anyone who has contacts who know MPs will be aware that MPs have had no clue when the election might be for ages, even ministers have guessed every date under the sun, so only a total fool among them would have not even contemplated what they might have to decide if an election were sooner than that.
would you go to an interview when you knew you were not going to get the job? or go on holiday instead?
That depends - do they still get a higher parachute payment if they are defeated in an election versus standing down?
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
Because its not exclusively shit here?
Sure this country is probably ok compared to Afghanistan. Not saying much though is it.
Has anyone ever been to a comedy show with an unknown comedian who has, for one reason or another, fallen flat at the start of the show? No laughter and awkward silence for the first few jokes.
When I've seen it happen it ends up with a downward spiral. The comedian is less relaxed, more techy, less funny than they usually are. The audience is suspicious, expecting to find fault with each joke.
This is how the start to the Tory election campaign has felt to me.
Worse
I saw that happen, in Glasgow. Having decided the guy was not funny, the audience proceeded to rip him apart.
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Just had a speculative bet on the tories getting under 50 seats at 14/1. There is no fight left or even candidates , Sunak is proving an utter disaster
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
Because its not exclusively shit here?
Sure this country is probably ok compared to Afghanistan. Not saying much though is it.
Nope. Aspiration should reach beyond not being the ninth circle of hell
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Just had a speculative bet on the tories getting under 50 seats at 14/1. There is no fight left or even candidates , Sunak is proving an utter disaster
actually noticed bet365 have it at 25/1 and 50-100 at 4/1 - worth a bet on total collapse from what i have seen
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Just had a speculative bet on the tories getting under 50 seats at 14/1. There is no fight left or even candidates , Sunak is proving an utter disaster
I think a bet on under 100 seats is certainly worth a shot here.
Has anyone ever been to a comedy show with an unknown comedian who has, for one reason or another, fallen flat at the start of the show? No laughter and awkward silence for the first few jokes.
When I've seen it happen it ends up with a downward spiral. The comedian is less relaxed, more techy, less funny than they usually are. The audience is suspicious, expecting to find fault with each joke.
This is how the start to the Tory election campaign has felt to me.
Worse
I saw that happen, in Glasgow. Having decided the guy was not funny, the audience proceeded to rip him apart.
Lions from the Coliseum were taking notes...
Jongleurs back in the day use to be brutal if the crowd throught you were shit. That is why the ones that survived and prospered have excellent audience management / banter.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
The UK class system remains a ridiculous who's who of old school ties, secret handshakes and pecking orders. And we all know it. We're just not supposed to say it.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
I'm astonished that so many people think the class system is still important in the UK. Look at Keir Starmer - from an ordinary background.
What's the percentage of our PMs who went to public school? What's the percentage who went to Eton? How does that percentage compare to society at large?
Only 34% of barristers went to state school.
60% of charting musicians in 2010 went to private schools. Don't quote me on the number of actors. etc.
The disproportionate sway the 7% that were privately educated have over British public life is enormous, and we'd be fools to dismiss it, against all the statistical evidence. And I say this as one of the 7%.
Is it a Masonic Brotherhood, with a secret handshake where *only* those who know the secret code can get on in life? Of course not. Is it a club to which membership grants enormous perks, from networking with the right sort at an early age, to knowing how to behave at dinner? Of course.
The UK is as divided by class as it's always been.
It’s not as simple as secret handshakes. It’s because Public/Private schools have facilities and extracurricular activities that lend themselves to success in a lot of these sectors.
Debating societies are big at public schools, and debating from a young age either attracts kids to the cut and thrust of being a barrister or gives them an advantage in years of soft practice. Public schools usually have a couple of theatres and each house does annual plays along with school plays and side productions and the facilities and grounds make it possible for theatre troupes to perform easily and regularly so again, pupils get exposure and experience.
It’s not that state school kids are missing out on contacts more that state schools cannot provide the facilities, time, money, desire, to do the things that make entry into these areas easier, or frankly make it something that their students are aware of as a career.
First stop is to change the school system so they don’t all fuck off home at 3pm and school is until at least 6pm, preferably with every pupil having some food, and doing their homework on premises and doing activities in these extra hours - these extra hours that stop one of the parents having to work part time to get home to look after the kids at 3pm which would improve productivity.
Shame about the loss of playing fields, though. Council libraries. And so on.
Absolutely - that’s not the fault of the public schools though, it’s the fault of successive governments and an obsession with quick money over long term investment in people and business that infects the country.
I want every child to have the education I had. I loved it. I would contemplate going back tomorrow if it didn’t look a bit dodgy a man in his forties going to a boys boarding school. I want every kid in the uk to eat like a pig three times a day, have to play spots seven hours a week and cultural exercise a minimum of five hours a week and the facilities to do that. I want parents to also hand over their kids to the school for many more hours and the state to support that because we will have a better country, the best investment we could make.
That should be the first thing alongside defence the state should pay for. Then work out what health spending is vital, the what’s good then what’s “nice”.
Build the foundations well, healthy educated interested happy children will create a better country. Maybe give them all black shirts or something so they all feel part of a whole.
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
The list will include some who have already said they are definitely running now changing their minds. Has to. And not just people who said a while back they were definitely running. Easy to say "yes I'm running" and then start knocking on doors and realise you're going to get thrashed.
Do the Tories have a contingency plan to fill seats they currently hold? Press-ganging councillors to run. But a lot of councillors don't want to be MPs. Easy enough to accidentally make a mistake on your paperwork.
I think we could see seats that currently have a Tory MP not have a Tory candidate...
I don't think so. There are plenty enough people who want to be an MP, and who will, not unreasonably, think that if they are in their 20s or 30s then there is plenty of time for the Tories to recover.
The Tories might come to wish that they hadn't found these people to stand for them, were they to be elected, and to turn out as well as O'Mara. But that's a problem for another day.
This header has made me realise I have to vote for the first time since 2010....whoever will keep the lib dem idiot out as I live in exmouth now
You’ll be voting Tory then. Well done Rishi.
The mind boggles, Pagan2 has nearly 9000 posts on PB and claims not to have bothered to vote for the last 3 GEs.
It takes all sorts.
I don't vote anymore because there is no one worth voting for. I regard labour, tory, lib dem and green manifesto's as unlikely to fix anything. I believe we need to reconfigure our democracy completely as it no longer works. I even wrote a thread header on the subject. Refusing to take part in something you believe a farce and wanting something different does not make you apolitical. It merely means you think our democracy as it stands is a pointless charade
Has anyone ever been to a comedy show with an unknown comedian who has, for one reason or another, fallen flat at the start of the show? No laughter and awkward silence for the first few jokes.
When I've seen it happen it ends up with a downward spiral. The comedian is less relaxed, more techy, less funny than they usually are. The audience is suspicious, expecting to find fault with each joke.
This is how the start to the Tory election campaign has felt to me.
Worse
I saw that happen, in Glasgow. Having decided the guy was not funny, the audience proceeded to rip him apart.
Lions from the Coliseum were taking notes...
I used to do stand up at open mic nights/very low grade pub gigs as a hobby. If the first joke falls utterly flat I'd cut it to the quick and get off ASAP. I think my record was a minute and I was OUTTA there
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Just had a speculative bet on the tories getting under 50 seats at 14/1. There is no fight left or even candidates , Sunak is proving an utter disaster
I think a bet on under 100 seats is certainly worth a shot here.
Betting on extreme results is a good strategy in most betting markets where extreme conditions prevail.
@benrileysmith Now **eleven** Tory MPs have said they’re standing down in the 2 days since Sunak called the election
Andrea Leadsom (just now) Michael Gove Greg Clark Craig Mackinlay John Redwood David Evennett Eleanor Laing Jo Churchill Huw Merriman James Grundy Michael Ellis
How many more??
The significance is that if constituencies are only now learning their MPs are standing down, they have only two weeks to find successors for their often safe seats (candidates must be in place by 7 June). One imagines CCHQ might impose candidates but that can easily backfire as well.
I must say I don't really buy this spin about most of them thinking they had until the autumn and so being forced into this. One or two, sure, but anyone who has contacts who know MPs will be aware that MPs have had no clue when the election might be for ages, even ministers have guessed every date under the sun, so only a total fool among them would have not even contemplated what they might have to decide if an election were sooner than that.
would you go to an interview when you knew you were not going to get the job? or go on holiday instead?
That depends - do they still get a higher parachute payment if they are defeated in an election versus standing down?
They do, but it's relatively minor. A few grand - which you need to set against a six week slog and the embarrassment of losing over retiring. A few MPs historically have been really keen on it, to the point of standing in a hopeless neighbouring seat as a kamikaze retirement. But that's been cracked down on, and most just see it as demeaning.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, Sunak is actually quite exemplary. His parents slaved away to give him a great start, he has clearly worked bloody hard to get where he is
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
Not even when about his dress sense? Starmer’s is as shite btw, in a different way. Swinney’s just about works in an elder of the C of S who manages the Perth Morrison’s sense.
A lot of bollocks on here tonight about how oppressive the class system is in the UK, when it's far worse in most other countries.
The two parts of that sentence can both be true.
Things being worse in another place does not mean we have to be grateful for things in this place which could still be better.
That's like saying we have no reason to complain about the government because at least here they don't shoot you for doing so.
Also in what countries is it worse. Certainly not in Scandinavia, Germany, Canada, the USA, Australia countries we should be comparing ourselves to. Or maybe you think the UK is such a basketcase its pointless comparing ourselves to those countries anymore.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
If you are born into poverty in the uk, on average it takes your decendants 5 generations FIVE....to make it up to median income. Just across the water in Denmark where they give a shit about each other, it takes 2 generations. Why would you take initiative in the uk if you will never see the benefit, even vicariously through your children. Britain is a heartless society where everybody would rather nobody got anything out of worry that 1 person gets 50p too much. It is just so petty. These are our compatriots for christ sake. I hear a lot of talk, especially on the right, about loving your own country.... but as I see it, many many brits absolutely loathe their own cutbry and their compatriots. It is a very sad situation.
Anyone who spends one second of their life feeling inferior to toffs is a bit of an idiot imo.
In my experience, proper poshos aren't a problem, met loads at uni and had a good laugh (despite me being just a lad from Stoke whose parents didn't go to uni) is the ones that are trying hard to seem like they are.
I first read that as “just being a lad from Stowe” and I felt so sorry for you and then re-read and saw you wrote Stoke so at least it’s not as bad as it could have been.
This header has made me realise I have to vote for the first time since 2010....whoever will keep the lib dem idiot out as I live in exmouth now
You’ll be voting Tory then. Well done Rishi.
A vote from the person who wants over 80s to be killed was THE plum endorsement. The opposition parties must be distraught that sensible, stable centrists like Pagan2 are breaking Conservative. Five more years! Five more years!
erm I have never asked for over 80's to be killed nor have I voted conservative in 2015, 2017 nor 2019 and even this time would only vote tory tactically if it kept a lib dem psycho out of a seat
"This is why we should go logan's run at 80 gives everyone a definite target" Your words, not mine. But sure, it's the Lib Dems who are the bad guys
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
Because its not exclusively shit here?
Sure this country is probably ok compared to Afghanistan. Not saying much though is it.
Do you live in Redditch ?
Lol!
I live not far from Redditch. It is actually very nice.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
The UK class system remains a ridiculous who's who of old school ties, secret handshakes and pecking orders. And we all know it. We're just not supposed to say it.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
I'm astonished that so many people think the class system is still important in the UK. Look at Keir Starmer - from an ordinary background.
What's the percentage of our PMs who went to public school? What's the percentage who went to Eton? How does that percentage compare to society at large?
Only 34% of barristers went to state school.
60% of charting musicians in 2010 went to private schools. Don't quote me on the number of actors. etc.
The disproportionate sway the 7% that were privately educated have over British public life is enormous, and we'd be fools to dismiss it, against all the statistical evidence. And I say this as one of the 7%.
Is it a Masonic Brotherhood, with a secret handshake where *only* those who know the secret code can get on in life? Of course not. Is it a club to which membership grants enormous perks, from networking with the right sort at an early age, to knowing how to behave at dinner? Of course.
The UK is as divided by class as it's always been.
It’s not as simple as secret handshakes. It’s because Public/Private schools have facilities and extracurricular activities that lend themselves to success in a lot of these sectors.
Debating societies are big at public schools, and debating from a young age either attracts kids to the cut and thrust of being a barrister or gives them an advantage in years of soft practice. Public schools usually have a couple of theatres and each house does annual plays along with school plays and side productions and the facilities and grounds make it possible for theatre troupes to perform easily and regularly so again, pupils get exposure and experience.
It’s not that state school kids are missing out on contacts more that state schools cannot provide the facilities, time, money, desire, to do the things that make entry into these areas easier, or frankly make it something that their students are aware of as a career.
First stop is to change the school system so they don’t all fuck off home at 3pm and school is until at least 6pm, preferably with every pupil having some food, and doing their homework on premises and doing activities in these extra hours - these extra hours that stop one of the parents having to work part time to get home to look after the kids at 3pm which would improve productivity.
Shame about the loss of playing fields, though. Council libraries. And so on.
Absolutely - that’s not the fault of the public schools though, it’s the fault of successive governments and an obsession with quick money over long term investment in people and business that infects the country.
I want every child to have the education I had. I loved it. I would contemplate going back tomorrow if it didn’t look a bit dodgy a man in his forties going to a boys boarding school. I want every kid in the uk to eat like a pig three times a day, have to play spots seven hours a week and cultural exercise a minimum of five hours a week and the facilities to do that. I want parents to also hand over their kids to the school for many more hours and the state to support that because we will have a better country, the best investment we could make.
That should be the first thing alongside defence the state should pay for. Then work out what health spending is vital, the what’s good then what’s “nice”.
Build the foundations well, healthy educated interested happy children will create a better country. Maybe give them all black shirts or something so they all feel part of a whole.
That PB favourite topic again - private education ! I could not care less about private education as children are born lucky or unlucky in many ways , only one of which is having a private education (one might argue it could be counted as unlucky anyway) . Other ways that are just life luck are
health looks parents IQ being talent spotted (or not) etc etc
Nobody suggests we should all have the same standard of parents or indeed the same number or that good lookers have to have a scar or two do they? Its life and life is not fair
Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
I'm a little bit sad at all this. Redwood, Leadsome, Gove etc al were people doing the best they could for the country. I disagreed with most of what they did, sometimes vehemently, but that doesn't mean I overlook the fact that they were people and that their departure is the end of an era. I'm pleased they are leaving but sad to see them go, if that makes sense. ☹️
@benrileysmith Now **eleven** Tory MPs have said they’re standing down in the 2 days since Sunak called the election
Andrea Leadsom (just now) Michael Gove Greg Clark Craig Mackinlay John Redwood David Evennett Eleanor Laing Jo Churchill Huw Merriman James Grundy Michael Ellis
How many more??
The significance is that if constituencies are only now learning their MPs are standing down, they have only two weeks to find successors for their often safe seats (candidates must be in place by 7 June). One imagines CCHQ might impose candidates but that can easily backfire as well.
I must say I don't really buy this spin about most of them thinking they had until the autumn and so being forced into this. One or two, sure, but anyone who has contacts who know MPs will be aware that MPs have had no clue when the election might be for ages, even ministers have guessed every date under the sun, so only a total fool among them would have not even contemplated what they might have to decide if an election were sooner than that.
would you go to an interview when you knew you were not going to get the job? or go on holiday instead?
Plenty of us have stood as candidates for local or national when we knew there was no chance at all of being elected.
Having no chance of winning was a precondition to get me to stand.
Okay, so here's something to ponder. The wikipedia opinion poll graph has been updated and - caveats aplenty about the endpoints - it's notable that, since the start of April, when Reform peaked at 13%, they have lost 2pp. Over the same period, Labour are up 2pp and the Tories are flat.
This, of course, isn't proof of anything, but it is worth considering where we might end up if Reform do decline to about 5% or so, and those votes go to Labour, instead of the Tories.
A lot of bollocks on here tonight about how oppressive the class system is in the UK, when it's far worse in most other countries.
The two parts of that sentence can both be true.
Things being worse in another place does not mean we have to be grateful for things in this place which could still be better.
That's like saying we have no reason to complain about the government because at least here they don't shoot you for doing so.
Also in what countries is it worse. Certainly not in Scandinavia, Germany, Canada, the USA, Australia countries we should be comparing ourselves to. Or maybe you think the UK is such a basketcase its pointless comparing ourselves to those countries anymore.
The USA? The USA is the modern Rome. The rewards for success are immense, but you don’t want to contemplate the penalties for failure.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
Because its not exclusively shit here?
Sure this country is probably ok compared to Afghanistan. Not saying much though is it.
Do you live in Redditch ?
Lol!
I live not far from Redditch. It is actually very nice.
So do I, its my local town. I assume youre in worcestershire
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
If you are born into poverty in the uk, on average it takes your decendants 5 generations FIVE....to make it up to median income. Just across the water in Denmark where they give a shit about each other, it takes 2 generations. Why would you take initiative in the uk if you will never see the benefit, even vicariously through your children. Britain is a heartless society where everybody would rather nobody got anything out of worry that 1 person gets 50p too much. It is just so petty. These are our compatriots for christ sake. I hear a lot of talk, especially on the right, about loving your own country.... but as I see it, many many brits absolutely loathe their own cutbry and their compatriots. It is a very sad situation.
Indeed. See the contempt on this site for Rishi Sunak for his sin of having hard-working, hard-caring parents who spent every penny sending him to great schools, where he ALSO worked hard (head boy) and then got a really good lucrative job
What a wanker! How dare he! And an Indian! We like our minorities to be oppressed gang bangers who get wrongly shot by police while doing drug deals, thanks, so they don't get any uppity ideas about actually succeeding
Well at least Gove was on the right side of the Brexit divide, unlike that chancer Cameron.
Except he wasn't. That was the oddest thing. Gove for years had been Eurosceptic because he blamed the EU for destroying his parents' fishing business. Then his father popped up and said it wasn't the EU, and he'd just retired. Gove's political philosophy (or at least that part of it) was founded on a misapprehension.
He was still on the right side of the argument even if for mistaken reasons.
IMV subsequent events have shown that Brexit was the wrong side of the argument. A divisive, pointless argument which has damaged the country.
I have a vague impression, perhaps wrong, that you will disagree with me on this...
Comprehensively. If it was divisive well, that is politics for you and that was as much because of those who would not accept the result as those who embraced it. And of course it certainly wasn't pointless as history will show. Nor do I believe it has damaged the country. It is the Tory party that has done that and they would still have been there being useless with or without Brexit.
I imagine there were many in North America claiming that American Independence was divisive, pointless and damaged the country. We don't remember their whining today.
I'm a little bit sad at all this. Redwood, Leadsome, Gove etc al were people doing the best they could for the country. I disagreed with most of what they did, sometimes vehemently, but that doesn't mean I overlook the fact that they were people and that their departure is the end of an era. I'm pleased they are leaving but sad to see them go, if that makes sense. ☹️
Gove I actually liked, for what he tried to do on leasehold reform.
Less so once his proposals got watered down, the second it was obvious who pays the piper, but he was infinitely preferable to Jenrick on day 1.
Now the question will be whether Labour do anything about it, or the developer lobby hobbles them, too. Tbh, not holding out much hope.
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Just had a speculative bet on the tories getting under 50 seats at 14/1. There is no fight left or even candidates , Sunak is proving an utter disaster
I think a bet on under 100 seats is certainly worth a shot here.
Betting on extreme results is a good strategy in most betting markets where extreme conditions prevail.
This would certainly apply to political markets.
The Tories getting 49 seats or less is an unlikely result - I think there is more than a 4% chance of it occurring though so I've taken Bet365's offer of 25-1 up...
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, Sunak is actually quite exemplary. His parents slaved away to give him a great start, he has clearly worked bloody hard to get where he is
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
Not even when about his dress sense? Starmer’s is as shite btw, in a different way. Swinney’s just about works in an elder of the C of S who manages the Perth Morrison’s.
You know that Sunak's father was a GP, the pharmacy, which we tend to hear more about, was the mother's business. They paid normal fees at Winchester after prep school. I'm sure the parents worked hard at their jobs but it was a standard middle class existence.
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
Just had a speculative bet on the tories getting under 50 seats at 14/1. There is no fight left or even candidates , Sunak is proving an utter disaster
I think a bet on under 100 seats is certainly worth a shot here.
Betting on extreme results is a good strategy in most betting markets where extreme conditions prevail.
This would certainly apply to political markets.
The Tories getting 49 seats or less is an unlikely result - I think there is more than a 4% chance of it occurring though so I've taken Bet365's offer of 25-1 up...
I'm a little bit sad at all this. Redwood, Leadsome, Gove etc al were people doing the best they could for the country. I disagreed with most of what they did, sometimes vehemently, but that doesn't mean I overlook the fact that they were people and that their departure is the end of an era. I'm pleased they are leaving but sad to see them go, if that makes sense. ☹️
I'm quite surprised that you're pleased Redwood is leaving. It doesn't say very much for your judgement. Oh well.
@Peston Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
The list will include some who have already said they are definitely running now changing their minds. Has to. And not just people who said a while back they were definitely running. Easy to say "yes I'm running" and then start knocking on doors and realise you're going to get thrashed.
Do the Tories have a contingency plan to fill seats they currently hold? Press-ganging councillors to run. But a lot of councillors don't want to be MPs. Easy enough to accidentally make a mistake on your paperwork.
I think we could see seats that currently have a Tory MP not have a Tory candidate...
Would say it's hard for the paperwork to be screwed up to the extent they don't have a Tory candidate on nomination day.
Where I think they will screw up is in completely vetting social media accounts and a few will have items in the closet which will get picked up on.
Remember Reform has had a remove 100 candidates since the beginning of the year due to discoveries of inappropriate behaviour in the past - I can imagine the tory party could easily select a few candidates with similar issues...
When is the cut off for candidates? With such short notice these is going to be so right fruitcakes that sneak through.
Can CCHQ airdrop favoured people in at this stage, or is it not how it works? There are various CCHQ choices who have not quite made it to date so, in a way, this might be welcome (albeit the impression it gives is poor).
Whilst nothing is safe in a bloodbath, many of these are seats for life IF they survive 4th July.
Well at least Gove was on the right side of the Brexit divide, unlike that chancer Cameron.
Except he wasn't. That was the oddest thing. Gove for years had been Eurosceptic because he blamed the EU for destroying his parents' fishing business. Then his father popped up and said it wasn't the EU, and he'd just retired. Gove's political philosophy (or at least that part of it) was founded on a misapprehension.
He was still on the right side of the argument even if for mistaken reasons.
IMV subsequent events have shown that Brexit was the wrong side of the argument. A divisive, pointless argument which has damaged the country.
I have a vague impression, perhaps wrong, that you will disagree with me on this...
Comprehensively. If it was divisive well, that is politics for you and that was as much because of those who would not accept the result as those who embraced it. And of course it certainly wasn't pointless as history will show. Nor do I believe it has damaged the country. It is the Tory party that has done that and they would still have been there being useless with or without Brexit.
I imagine there were many in North America claiming that American Independence was divisive, pointless and damaged the country. We don't remember their whining today.
One of the great “what ifs” of history, is to envisage a world where the revolt is put down.
Does slavery get abolished in 1833, or does the fight over slavery extend across the empire?
Does British America expand West? Would there be an American Indian State, perhaps becoming a British dominion?
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
If you are born into poverty in the uk, on average it takes your decendants 5 generations FIVE....to make it up to median income. Just across the water in Denmark where they give a shit about each other, it takes 2 generations. Why would you take initiative in the uk if you will never see the benefit, even vicariously through your children. Britain is a heartless society where everybody would rather nobody got anything out of worry that 1 person gets 50p too much. It is just so petty. These are our compatriots for christ sake. I hear a lot of talk, especially on the right, about loving your own country.... but as I see it, many many brits absolutely loathe their own cutbry and their compatriots. It is a very sad situation.
Indeed. See the contempt on this site for Rishi Sunak for his sin of having hard-working, hard-caring parents who spent every penny sending him to great schools, where he ALSO worked hard (head boy) and then got a really good lucrative job
What a wanker! How dare he! And an Indian! We like our minorities to be oppressed gang bangers who get wrongly shot by police while doing drug deals, thanks, so they don't get any uppity ideas about actually succeeding
I fear it will do irreparable damage to our international reputation if our first ethnically Indian Prime Minister is swept out of office in a wave of nativism instigated by "the political wing of the British people" with a leader who openly uses nationalist imagery.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
If it's so awful here, why is this country one of the top destinations for people from all over the world?
If you are born into poverty in the uk, on average it takes your decendants 5 generations FIVE....to make it up to median income. Just across the water in Denmark where they give a shit about each other, it takes 2 generations. Why would you take initiative in the uk if you will never see the benefit, even vicariously through your children. Britain is a heartless society where everybody would rather nobody got anything out of worry that 1 person gets 50p too much. It is just so petty. These are our compatriots for christ sake. I hear a lot of talk, especially on the right, about loving your own country.... but as I see it, many many brits absolutely loathe their own cutbry and their compatriots. It is a very sad situation.
Indeed. See the contempt on this site for Rishi Sunak for his sin of having hard-working, hard-caring parents who spent every penny sending him to great schools, where he ALSO worked hard (head boy) and then got a really good lucrative job
What a wanker! How dare he! And an Indian! We like our minorities to be oppressed gang bangers who get wrongly shot by police while doing drug deals, thanks, so they don't get any uppity ideas about actually succeeding
I fear it will do irreparable damage to our international reputation if our first ethnically Indian Prime Minister is swept out of office in a wave of nativism instigated by "the political wing of the British people" with a leader who openly uses nationalist imagery.
I'm ethnically Indian, I see no reason to vote Rishi *just because* he's also ethnically Indian.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, Sunak is actually quite exemplary. His parents slaved away to give him a great start, he has clearly worked bloody hard to get where he is
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
Not even when about his dress sense? Starmer’s is as shite btw, in a different way. Swinney’s just about works in an elder of the C of S who manages the Perth Morrison’s.
You know that Sunak's father was a GP, the pharmacy, which we tend to hear more about, was the mother's business. They paid normal fees at Winchester after prep school. I'm sure the parents worked hard at their jobs but it was a standard middle class existence.
Sam Freedman @Samfr · 12m Tbh I think they might have to start giving away Tory candidacies with copies of the Telegraph, like those bottles of water promotions at Smiths.
I'm a little bit sad at all this. Redwood, Leadsome, Gove etc al were people doing the best they could for the country. I disagreed with most of what they did, sometimes vehemently, but that doesn't mean I overlook the fact that they were people and that their departure is the end of an era. I'm pleased they are leaving but sad to see them go, if that makes sense. ☹️
I'm quite surprised that you're pleased Redwood is leaving. It doesn't say very much for your judgement. Oh well.
I think you may have missed the winsome ambiguity that I thought I had made obvious.
Comments
Fill your boots...
Debating societies are big at public schools, and debating from a young age either attracts kids to the cut and thrust of being a barrister or gives them an advantage in years of soft practice. Public schools usually have a couple of theatres and each house does annual plays along with school plays and side productions and the facilities and grounds make it possible for theatre troupes to perform easily and regularly so again, pupils get exposure and experience.
It’s not that state school kids are missing out on contacts more that state schools cannot provide the facilities, time, money, desire, to do the things that make entry into these areas easier, or frankly make it something that their students are aware of as a career.
First stop is to change the school system so they don’t all fuck off home at 3pm and school is until at least 6pm, preferably with every pupil having some food, and doing their homework on premises and doing activities in these extra hours - these extra hours that stop one of the parents having to work part time to get home to look after the kids at 3pm which would improve productivity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF95MMcn_B0
When I've seen it happen it ends up with a downward spiral. The comedian is less relaxed, more techy, less funny than they usually are. The audience is suspicious, expecting to find fault with each joke.
This is how the start to the Tory election campaign has felt to me.
https://www.exmouthjournal.co.uk/news/24341007.exmouth-exeter-east-polls-predict-general-election/
We have won
Some of you are going to die
Martyrs of course to the freedom that I shall provide
As someone who lived and worked outside the UK for a few years, it's really noticeable when you come back, how riven by the pecking order we all remain. There will be exceptions outside that for good or for evil - nobody is suggesting Girls Aloud went to Cheltenham Ladies. But statistically, whether you want to be an actress/musician or the next PM, going to the right school does seem to be a bit of a leg up.
I think the UK has done a fantastic job of *looking* more meritocratic than it used to be in the latter 20th century, but have things really changed that much? The continuing dominance of poshos be it in music/theatre, business or politics, suggests not.
Do the Tories have a contingency plan to fill seats they currently hold? Press-ganging councillors to run. But a lot of councillors don't want to be MPs. Easy enough to accidentally make a mistake on your paperwork.
I think we could see seats that currently have a Tory MP not have a Tory candidate...
It takes all sorts.
I saw that happen, in Glasgow. Having decided the guy was not funny, the audience proceeded to rip him apart.
Lions from the Coliseum were taking notes...
I want every child to have the education I had. I loved it. I would contemplate going back tomorrow if it didn’t look a bit dodgy a man in his forties going to a boys boarding school. I want every kid in the uk to eat like a pig three times a day, have to play spots seven hours a week and cultural exercise a minimum of five hours a week and the facilities to do that. I want parents to also hand over their kids to the school for many more hours and the state to support that because we will have a better country, the best investment we could make.
That should be the first thing alongside defence the state should pay for. Then work out what health spending is vital, the what’s good then what’s “nice”.
Build the foundations well, healthy educated interested happy children will create a better country. Maybe give them all black shirts or something so they all feel part of a whole.
The Tories might come to wish that they hadn't found these people to stand for them, were they to be elected, and to turn out as well as O'Mara. But that's a problem for another day.
Net favourability of politicians among Scots
John Swinney: -3
Keir Starmer: -11
Anas Sarwar: -13
Kate Forbes: -14
Nicola Sturgeon: -20
Lorna Slater: -25
Patrick Harvie: -26
Douglas Ross: -34
Humza Yousaf: -40
Rishi Sunak: -61
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1792556377505759656
This would certainly apply to political markets.
Starmer’s is as shite btw, in a different way. Swinney’s just about works in an elder of the C of S who manages the Perth Morrison’s sense.
Poor Alba, we hardly knew ye.
I live not far from Redditch. It is actually very nice.
health
looks
parents
IQ
being talent spotted (or not)
etc etc
Nobody suggests we should all have the same standard of parents or indeed the same number or that good lookers have to have a scar or two do they? Its life and life is not fair
Robert Peston
@Peston
Senior Tories expect a significant number of further MP resignations over the weekend, in the wake of Gove’s and Leadsom’s decisions not to fight the election. Quite a number who have been re-approved as candidates have been in two minds, and thought they had till the autumn to decide. The party has more than 150 seats and rising with no candidate. That is a lot of candidates for CCHQ to find before 7 June and a lot of wasted campaigning days. It does rather indicate Sunak called the election before his party was ready
https://x.com/Peston/status/1794090015674277938
Be a Councillor? You're having a laugh!
This, of course, isn't proof of anything, but it is worth considering where we might end up if Reform do decline to about 5% or so, and those votes go to Labour, instead of the Tories.
And perhaps that is what makes the USA so great.
What a wanker! How dare he! And an Indian! We like our minorities to be oppressed gang bangers who get wrongly shot by police while doing drug deals, thanks, so they don't get any uppity ideas about actually succeeding
I imagine there were many in North America claiming that American Independence was divisive, pointless and damaged the country. We don't remember their whining today.
Less so once his proposals got watered down, the second it was obvious who pays the piper, but he was infinitely preferable to Jenrick on day 1.
Now the question will be whether Labour do anything about it, or the developer lobby hobbles them, too. Tbh, not holding out much hope.
@ayeshahazarika
At this rate, I’m wondering if Rishi Sunak might announce he’s standing down as an MP
The tragedy is he wants to do it, but he has to wait until he loses humiliatingly before he can do it for real.
They paid normal fees at Winchester after prep school. I'm sure the parents worked hard at their jobs but it was a standard middle class existence.
Where I think they will screw up is in completely vetting social media accounts and a few will have items in the closet which will get picked up on.
Remember Reform has had a remove 100 candidates since the beginning of the year due to discoveries of inappropriate behaviour in the past - I can imagine the tory party could easily select a few candidates with similar issues...
Whilst nothing is safe in a bloodbath, many of these are seats for life IF they survive 4th July.
Does slavery get abolished in 1833, or does the fight over slavery extend across the empire?
Does British America expand West? Would there be an American Indian State, perhaps becoming a British dominion?
Does South West America remain part of Mexico?
Sam Freedman
@Samfr
·
12m
Tbh I think they might have to start giving away Tory candidacies with copies of the Telegraph, like those bottles of water promotions at Smiths.
2024 - Become MP
2027 - Become Leader of His Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition
2029 - Become PM after winning a landslide at the general election
I have it all mapped out.