I have been mindful of the 'be careful what you wish for' maxim but sod it, I hope the Tories get utterly obliterated.
Let Reform take over the Tory remnants and turn them into a right-wing minority pressure group. Let the LDs fight it out with homeless One Nation Tories for the centre-right vote. Let Labour have a huge majority with the risks that brings - it's worth it to purge the country of the Tories.
Unfettered StarmerLabour will no doubt be boring, unambitious and safe. They'll get a few things right and cock a few things up, but honestly it's time the current Conservative Party was consigned to the dustbin of history.
The thing is that the Lib Dems never had such an opportunity to become the second party. They could be majorly pro-EU, centrist, small gov but caring a lovely. They are still irrelevant because they cannot decide which horse they are riding and want to be all things to all men/women/undecided.
The guys who were running it during the coalition, if they had been there these last few years could have taken it to be the opposition but currently they are a wet blancmange who are as Janus like as Starmer.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
I think Surrey Heath will stay Tory although it could be close, if the Tories are sensible though they will pick a well known local councillor as it will certainly be a LD target seat
The LibDems seem to be up for the fight, according to last night’s Evening Standard, as well as Godalming & Ash. I think Guildford will turn yellow.
I have been mindful of the 'be careful what you wish for' maxim but sod it, I hope the Tories get utterly obliterated.
Let Reform take over the Tory remnants and turn them into a right-wing minority pressure group. Let the LDs fight it out with homeless One Nation Tories for the centre-right vote. Let Labour have a huge majority with the risks that brings - it's worth it to purge the country of the Tories.
Unfettered StarmerLabour will no doubt be boring, unambitious and safe. They'll get a few things right and cock a few things up, but honestly it's time the current Conservative Party was consigned to the dustbin of history.
All for that and then repeating it with the Labour party as soon as possible thereafter. Consign the lot of them to the khazi of mistakes we've kept making for 150 years
If the Tories really do face an existential moment after this election it won’t be the end of the right in this country. It will realign and it will come back. This country is far too centre-right in its sensibilities for that not to be the case. Many of us moderate centre-righties like myself will definitely go to Labour this time. It remains to be seen what happens from there on in.
Sunak's snap election has scuppered Craig Mackinlay's battle to continue as an MP
Whilst my heart tells me to stand again, there being so much unfinished business across local regeneration and national issues which are important to me, my head knows this to be impossible at this time. It would be difficult to withstand the rigours of an all-out election campaign, a campaign that I’d always wish to lead from the front. Thereafter, upon being re-elected it would be difficult for me to sustain 70 to 80 hour working weeks which were the norm prior to my illness.
I had hoped to phase my return to the House of Commons over the coming months as my abilities improved.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
I think Surrey Heath will stay Tory although it could be close, if the Tories are sensible though they will pick a well known local councillor as it will certainly be a LD target seat
The LibDems seem to be up for the fight, according to last night’s Evening Standard, as well as Godalming & Ash. I think Guildford will turn yellow.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Given the kids in my daughter's Year 5 class were laughing about it today, apparently, I would say it is probably cutting through...
I think Surrey Heath will stay Tory although it could be close, if the Tories are sensible though they will pick a well known local councillor as it will certainly be a LD target seat
The LibDems seem to be up for the fight, according to last night’s Evening Standard, as well as Godalming & Ash. I think Guildford will turn yellow.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
Rishi wouldn't give you a second glance except to shit on you infront of some other old boys to try and give his brittle self some extra kudos, let's be honest.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
I know some guys with names like Bismarck whose families seem not to have got the memo about the level playing field
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Given the kids in my daughter's Year 5 class were laughing about it today, apparently, I would say it is probably cutting through...
Everyone I know is talking about it too. I think it has cut through. Mainly because the British people love a good farce.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
Nice try. He didn't need to ask about football; anyone remotely in touch would have skipped the topic whilst in a Welsh factory.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
I know some guys with names like Bismarck whose families seem not to have got the memo about the level playing field
Indeed, people would be shocked at the Parisian/Swiss nexus of the Hottingers et al who are still every bit, if not more, exlusive and snooty than their British equivalents.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
Indeed. "He buys his own furniture" is surely the most withering putdown of that era, and explains entirely the difference between being around them - and maybe if you're lucky even being as rich as them - but never quite being one of them.
I remember asking my first year uni girlfriend if she'd like to come home with me that summer, as she was having a spat with her parents. "Don't worry, I'll be in the east wing and I doubt I'll even see them," came the droll reply. So somewhat larger than the McMansion I grew up in (with furniture my parents bought, obviously).
But these are again the narcissisms of small differences. One group of quite rich people with money and wealth from industry, vs another group of very rich people often with land and titles.
The top 0.1% vs the top 1% or so, all trying to establish a pecking order.
Meanwhile all of them are getting elected to the top jobs in the country, crushing the rights of LGBTQ people, eliminating disabled benefits if you can't dance to the right tune to get a sick note, and selling off billion dollar PPE contracts to your mates in the Dependencies.
I recommend quitting the English class system entirely, as I have done (without trying, it just sort of happened after enough of a bizarrely different life). It is refreshing. If anyone tries to impress me with ther schooling/noble lineage I now find it excruciatingly embarrassing, to the point of comedy. And I really do. It's all so ludicrous - and, in Britain, achingly parochial. Who was that guy, Charles? He used to do it. Jeez. Thank God he's waddled off to spend more time with his 2nd son syndrome
Great achievement or wild experience is impressive - nothing else
"Do not speak slightingly of society - only people who can't get into it do that"
Nice quote, I also presume it refers to British society. I now spend 60-70% of my time outside Britain. In the end that has an effect on you, and one I did not expect
I heartily reocmmend it
It's Oscar Wilde from The Importance of Being Earnest.
Stop caring about it so much. The proper response to people who try to make you feel small because they're friends with Camilla is to nod politely and get on with being brilliant in your own way. They will respect that. All this claiming that Elon Musk is the new Louis Catorz feels like you still care.
No, it's not. I am trying - and clearly failing - to articulate something that has genuinely happened to me. As it is unusual, almost sui generis, it is difficult to describe: my attempt to rework the word "posh" didn't succeed, I accept, certainly not as well as "noom", but I will continue to have a bash
Put it this way. Most (all?) Brits grow up painfully aware of the British class system - I certainly did. Class still seams Britain the same way race pervades America, perhaps - or "connections" in Italy. Caste in India, and so on
And yet in the last decade something sincerely happened to me, I don't know what or why it is, an accumulation of travel PLUS extreme experiences which meant it all fell away, something like that. Has it made me a better person? Absolutely not, possibly worse: I am more boastful than ever
eg I sometimes wonder if I am the best travelled person on the planet. I might genuinely be in the top 100
Anyway it is a real thing, but it is extremely tricky to express. I an trying to do it here for free, I hope you are grateful
I have been mindful of the 'be careful what you wish for' maxim but sod it, I hope the Tories get utterly obliterated.
Let Reform take over the Tory remnants and turn them into a right-wing minority pressure group. Let the LDs fight it out with homeless One Nation Tories for the centre-right vote. Let Labour have a huge majority with the risks that brings - it's worth it to purge the country of the Tories.
Unfettered StarmerLabour will no doubt be boring, unambitious and safe. They'll get a few things right and cock a few things up, but honestly it's time the current Conservative Party was consigned to the dustbin of history.
The thing is that the Lib Dems never had such an opportunity to become the second party. They could be majorly pro-EU, centrist, small gov but caring a lovely. They are still irrelevant because they cannot decide which horse they are riding and want to be all things to all men/women/undecided.
The guys who were running it during the coalition, if they had been there these last few years could have taken it to be the opposition but currently they are a wet blancmange who are as Janus like as Starmer.
That's true but even a limp balloon will rise to the occasion in a vacuum.
Boris Johnson reprises his attacks on Starmer's DPP record in his new Mail column:
"He takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch - except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar Jimmy Savile."
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
The Tories expect their polls to improve, because they have in 7 out of the last 11 elections. But Tory polls worsened in 2 out of those 11 elections, and those were the elections when they were at their most unpopular. A bit like now.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
Indeed. "He buys his own furniture" is surely the most withering putdown of that era, and explains entirely the difference between being around them - and maybe if you're lucky even being as rich as them - but never quite being one of them.
I remember asking my first year uni girlfriend if she'd like to come home with me that summer, as she was having a spat with her parents. "Don't worry, I'll be in the east wing and I doubt I'll even see them," came the droll reply. So somewhat larger than the McMansion I grew up in (with furniture my parents bought, obviously).
But these are again the narcissisms of small differences. One group of quite rich people with money and wealth from industry, vs another group of very rich people often with land and titles.
The top 0.1% vs the top 1% or so, all trying to establish a pecking order.
Meanwhile all of them are getting elected to the top jobs in the country, crushing the rights of LGBTQ people, eliminating disabled benefits if you can't dance to the right tune to get a sick note, and selling off billion dollar PPE contracts to your mates in the Dependencies.
I recommend quitting the English class system entirely, as I have done (without trying, it just sort of happened after enough of a bizarrely different life). It is refreshing. If anyone tries to impress me with their schooling/noble lineage I now find it excruciatingly embarrassing, to the point of comedy. It's all so ludicrous - and, in Britain, achingly parochial. Who was that guy, Charles? He used to do it. Jeez. Thank God he's waddled off to spend more time with his 2nd son syndrome
Great achievement or wild experience is impressive - nothing else
At the same time I wonder at my old self, that used to care about this shit. That old version of me was a fool
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
Indeed. "He buys his own furniture" is surely the most withering putdown of that era, and explains entirely the difference between being around them - and maybe if you're lucky even being as rich as them - but never quite being one of them.
I remember asking my first year uni girlfriend if she'd like to come home with me that summer, as she was having a spat with her parents. "Don't worry, I'll be in the east wing and I doubt I'll even see them," came the droll reply. So somewhat larger than the McMansion I grew up in (with furniture my parents bought, obviously).
But these are again the narcissisms of small differences. One group of quite rich people with money and wealth from industry, vs another group of very rich people often with land and titles.
The top 0.1% vs the top 1% or so, all trying to establish a pecking order.
Meanwhile all of them are getting elected to the top jobs in the country, crushing the rights of LGBTQ people, eliminating disabled benefits if you can't dance to the right tune to get a sick note, and selling off billion dollar PPE contracts to your mates in the Dependencies.
I recommend quitting the English class system entirely, as I have done (without trying, it just sort of happened after enough of a bizarrely different life). It is refreshing. If anyone tries to impress me with their schooling/noble lineage I now find it excruciatingly embarrassing, to the point of comedy. It's all so ludicrous - and, in Britain, achingly parochial. Who was that guy, Charles? He used to do it. Jeez. Thank God he's waddled off to spend more time with his 2nd son syndrome
Great achievement or wild experience is impressive - nothing else
At the same time I wonder at my old self, that used to care about this shit. That old version of me was a fool
Very true. The english class system is ludicrous but can still be deeply pervasive. And in the 21st century its a massive drag on our economy.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
Rishi wouldn't give you a second glance except to shit on you infront of some other old boys to try and give his brittle self some extra kudos, let's be honest.
I doubt it, he would probably just be another nice chap at a gathering talking about all sorts of nonsense. He would feel good he made PM, be ribbed about it all then debagged and take his turn in the old boys ceremonial bumming followed by a rousing rendition of Domum and then a Hot in Downing Street. He would probably appreciate that nobody would give a crap what he had done but like he’s a nice chap. I know you don’t like him for ideological reasons but let’s not make up silly things.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Given the kids in my daughter's Year 5 class were laughing about it today, apparently, I would say it is probably cutting through...
Everyone I know is talking about it too. I think it has cut through. Mainly because the British people love a good farce.
An interesting figure. I never felt Gove really reached the heights in government he could have done. I think he probably himself was aware that he did not have the public-facing persona to ever lead a party, but he should have had the chance at a great office.
I don’t deny the man is flawed, and certainly can be deeply unlikeable, but he is intelligent and interesting.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
Indeed. "He buys his own furniture" is surely the most withering putdown of that era, and explains entirely the difference between being around them - and maybe if you're lucky even being as rich as them - but never quite being one of them.
I remember asking my first year uni girlfriend if she'd like to come home with me that summer, as she was having a spat with her parents. "Don't worry, I'll be in the east wing and I doubt I'll even see them," came the droll reply. So somewhat larger than the McMansion I grew up in (with furniture my parents bought, obviously).
But these are again the narcissisms of small differences. One group of quite rich people with money and wealth from industry, vs another group of very rich people often with land and titles.
The top 0.1% vs the top 1% or so, all trying to establish a pecking order.
Meanwhile all of them are getting elected to the top jobs in the country, crushing the rights of LGBTQ people, eliminating disabled benefits if you can't dance to the right tune to get a sick note, and selling off billion dollar PPE contracts to your mates in the Dependencies.
I recommend quitting the English class system entirely, as I have done (without trying, it just sort of happened after enough of a bizarrely different life). It is refreshing. If anyone tries to impress me with ther schooling/noble lineage I now find it excruciatingly embarrassing, to the point of comedy. And I really do. It's all so ludicrous - and, in Britain, achingly parochial. Who was that guy, Charles? He used to do it. Jeez. Thank God he's waddled off to spend more time with his 2nd son syndrome
Great achievement or wild experience is impressive - nothing else
"Do not speak slightingly of society - only people who can't get into it do that"
Nice quote, I also presume it refers to British society. I now spend 60-70% of my time outside Britain. In the end that has an effect on you, and one I did not expect
I heartily reocmmend it
It's Oscar Wilde from The Importance of Being Earnest.
Stop caring about it so much. The proper response to people who try to make you feel small because they're friends with Camilla is to nod politely and get on with being brilliant in your own way. They will respect that. All this claiming that Elon Musk is the new Louis Catorz feels like you still care.
Now I want cucumber sandwiches.
There were no cucumbers in the market this morning, sir... Not even for ready money.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Winchester is resolutely middle class and majors in intellectual not social snobbery
'Middle class' - you'd have to be posh af to think that .
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
I know some guys with names like Bismarck whose families seem not to have got the memo about the level playing field
Indeed
You haven’t encountered snobbery until you’ve encountered German aristocratic snobbery.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Given the kids in my daughter's Year 5 class were laughing about it today, apparently, I would say it is probably cutting through...
Everyone I know is talking about it too. I think it has cut through. Mainly because the British people love a good farce.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
The UK class system remains a ridiculous who's who of old school ties, secret handshakes and pecking orders. And we all know it. We're just not supposed to say it.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
I know some guys with names like Bismarck whose families seem not to have got the memo about the level playing field
Indeed, people would be shocked at the Parisian/Swiss nexus of the Hottingers et al who are still every bit, if not more, exlusive and snooty than their British equivalents.
That may be so (I certainly wouldn't know) but there is something a bit insignificant about aristocrats when it's a republic. Like baubles on a tree with no fairy.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
I still think 50/50 - and if their polling position does improve, probably safe.
From what I understand she has built a personal vote in her seat, and is considered to be quite a decent MP, and plus has been visible in government without attracting the particular stench of much of the rest of the Tory Party. Partly because she’s been carrying swords etc.
Certainly possible the tide carries her away, but of all the risky senior MP losses I think she’s got one of the better chances of clinging on.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Given the kids in my daughter's Year 5 class were laughing about it today, apparently, I would say it is probably cutting through...
Everyone I know is talking about it too. I think it has cut through. Mainly because the British people love a good farce.
Man gets wet. Nation agog.
Drown and out.
Why does it always rain on me? Is it because I lied when I was only 17 (points behind in the polls)?
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
I think she'll be okay, between 2,000 and 4,000. Depends on if Portsmouth Independents stands against her.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
I know some guys with names like Bismarck whose families seem not to have got the memo about the level playing field
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
She was narrowly ahead in a constituency poll a couple months ago
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
I still think 50/50 - and if their polling position does improve, probably safe.
From what I understand she has built a personal vote in her seat, and is considered to be quite a decent MP, and plus has been visible in government without attracting the particular stench of much of the rest of the Tory Party. Partly because she’s been carrying swords etc.
Certainly possible the tide carries her away, but of all the risky senior MP losses I think she’s got one of the better chances of clinging on.
Personal vote will be overridden this time around, which means that there will be some genuinely decent people who are steamrollered by the momentum (whilst shits like Michael Gove bail). Electoral Calculus reckon it’s 83% likely Labour that Penny loses her seat and I wouldn’t disagree with that.
They have Labour winning it by a large margin. I agree.
I rather doubt it - his actual achievements seem to me rather limited, despite his abilities. He certainly seems to have lost interest recently. His housing reforms have been watered down endlessly, with very little actually making it into law, and the renters' reforms being abandoned in the wash-up.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
Well, I’m a retired pharmacist, son of a female pharmacist (and pharmacy owner) and I started in community pharmacy and then went into hospital. I don’t think we were ever in the top 2-5% but could be described as comfortable. And I’d agree about Hospital pharmacy not being as financially rewarding, but being more interesting than Community.
I'll admit it was quite the experience. All male.
One with that famous Sam Fox poster facing his window; one on the top floor with a chamber pot under the bed ("I did a number two in it .... once"), and so on ... all in a small terraced house in BD7 where it was either students or houses with random bricks picked out in the colours of the Pakistan flag.
Interestingly there was an Ahmadiyya presence in the area.
I lived in a terraced house in BD7, funnily enough. Wonder if we ever bumped into each other at Rios?
Me: 85-88. I was in Shearbridge Hall (now a car park), Little Horton, Oulton Terrace, then Lidget Green.
Kirkstone, but a decade or so later, then Clive Terrace also in Little Horton.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
I know some guys with names like Bismarck whose families seem not to have got the memo about the level playing field
Indeed, people would be shocked at the Parisian/Swiss nexus of the Hottingers et al who are still every bit, if not more, exlusive and snooty than their British equivalents.
That may be so (I certainly wouldn't know) but there is something a bit insignificant about aristocrats when it's a republic. Like baubles on a tree with no fairy.
Having lived in a Swiss republic, and a French Republic, in the nicest possible way because I like you even though we disagree with each other on things, that’s utter bullshit. They have aristocracies, titles or no titles, and money that are all part of the social strata and look down on those who are outsiders.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
I still think 50/50 - and if their polling position does improve, probably safe.
From what I understand she has built a personal vote in her seat, and is considered to be quite a decent MP, and plus has been visible in government without attracting the particular stench of much of the rest of the Tory Party. Partly because she’s been carrying swords etc.
Certainly possible the tide carries her away, but of all the risky senior MP losses I think she’s got one of the better chances of clinging on.
Personal vote will be overridden this time around, which means that there will be some genuinely decent people who are steamrollered by the momentum (whilst shits like Michael Gove bail). Electoral Calculus reckon it’s 83% likely Labour that Penny loses her seat and I wouldn’t disagree with that.
We’ll see. But then I know you are forecasting Tory apocalypse whereas my gut is something like 1997. We will see as the campaign progresses.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
Reform UK have had to remove more than 100 general election candidates since the start of the year, more than a dozen of whom were sacked after offensive and racist comments were revealed.
The populist party is now also facing a race against time to meet its pledge to stand a full slate of candidates. It needs to select for as many as 160 constituencies before the cut-off point for nominations in 14 days.
I'm thinking of putting my name forward and then once selected campaigning for more public spending, higher taxes and rejoining the EU. Every party needs its mavericks.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
Oh dear. Now that the last rump of tories aren’t getting their way, they are attacking the very nation itself.
Everything wrong with your lot, right there. Good riddance to you … for a very, very, long time.
It would appear most of the Brexiteers are heading for the hills - Redwood, Gove and Leadsom (probably) in the last 24 hours as well as Farage deciding to dodge the voters. I'm shocked I tell you.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
I honestly think the print media has very little power now. No one is interested or cares what the sun or daily mail thinks anymore and even the old boomers are cottoning on now. Broadcast journalists have more power but even there there has been a substantial lost of trust in institutions like the BBC.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
Very much agreed, except that it's (largely) the English class system that fucks us so badly. Sure, there are some class gradations elsewhere, but they're much more primary-coloured - where you live, what you do for a living, maybe a little about where you went to school. Nothing like as much of a weight around people's necks as the English have.
We would all be better off if we had a better understanding of how and why Germany managed to overtake us within 25 years of being completely flattened, though.
Some on the right fantasise about doing a zero-based spending review - I have some sympathy for that view, though I suspect that many who call for it wouldn't like the result! Perhaps, without going that far, we might think about some of the long-held assumptions that have been baked into our society. How many would we keep if we were forced to start again from scratch?
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
I still think 50/50 - and if their polling position does improve, probably safe.
From what I understand she has built a personal vote in her seat, and is considered to be quite a decent MP, and plus has been visible in government without attracting the particular stench of much of the rest of the Tory Party. Partly because she’s been carrying swords etc.
Certainly possible the tide carries her away, but of all the risky senior MP losses I think she’s got one of the better chances of clinging on.
Personal vote will be overridden this time around, which means that there will be some genuinely decent people who are steamrollered by the momentum (whilst shits like Michael Gove bail). Electoral Calculus reckon it’s 83% likely Labour that Penny loses her seat and I wouldn’t disagree with that.
We’ll see. But then I know you are forecasting Tory apocalypse whereas my gut is something like 1997. We will see as the campaign progresses.
No my prediction made straight after it was called, on here, is:
Lab 42.5% Con 28.5% LibDem 9%
=
Lab 421 Con 160 LibDem 30 SNP 14
= majority of 185, slightly below 1997
But I’m beginning to think, like the thread header, that it could be a whole lot worse than that for the Conservatives.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
Oh dear. Now that the last rump of tories aren’t getting their way, they are attacking the very nation itself.
Everything wrong with your lot, right there. Good riddance to you … for a very, very, long time.
Sorry, haven’t “your lot” been attacking the state of the nation endlessly recently too? Because you weren’t getting your way or because you disagreed with what was happening with the country you love?
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
I think Surrey Heath will stay Tory although it could be close, if the Tories are sensible though they will pick a well known local councillor as it will certainly be a LD target seat
The LibDems seem to be up for the fight, according to last night’s Evening Standard, as well as Godalming & Ash. I think Guildford will turn yellow.
Catching up, I've had a good laugh tonight. The desperate attempts to resuscitate Sunak by suggesting he's a self-made man born into the most humble of circumstances who pulled himself up by his bootstraps because his parents worked 168 hours a week and he's earned every penny of his multi-millionaire privilege and we could all do the same if we just worked as hard as him and his parents...... Don't think it's going to catch on, somehow.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Yes. Bullied because his parents were "in trade" rather than being landowners. Madness, eh?
But even Sunak, a couple of notches further down the social scale, was still far beyond what the vast majority of us will ever experience. Or Gordon Brown, "humble son of the manse" - except that was a deeply respected position (and his father did a stint as Moderator of the CoS!), and he'd almost certainly have been the poshest boy in his school.
The Uk class system is the scourge of this country. It leads to horrible behaviour at the top and worse massive economic underperformance. Sometimes I wonder is it better to be germany in 1945 starting from scrtach again.
I know some guys with names like Bismarck whose families seem not to have got the memo about the level playing field
Indeed, people would be shocked at the Parisian/Swiss nexus of the Hottingers et al who are still every bit, if not more, exlusive and snooty than their British equivalents.
That may be so (I certainly wouldn't know) but there is something a bit insignificant about aristocrats when it's a republic. Like baubles on a tree with no fairy.
Having lived in a Swiss republic, and a French Republic, in the nicest possible way because I like you even though we disagree with each other on things, that’s utter bullshit. They have aristocracies, titles or no titles, and money that are all part of the social strata and look down on those who are outsiders.
Indeed, I’d argue the main reason we are *not* a republic is our Establishment’s vastly underrated talent for absorbing outsiders.
This is the worst election launch in British history, isn’t it?
I suspect if I’m completely honest it’s only us obsessives who are really paying any attention. At the moment I suspect most of the country are simply aware there’s an election coming and Sunak got rained on, and are probably looking forward to the bank holiday.
But yes, it’s been pretty bad.
Most people are focusing on Euro 2024!
But not so much in Wales (Rishi to note) 😈
If Rishi had mentioned the football in a factory in England then he would have been hammered for assuming everyone in the factory was English or Scottish so had a team in the tournament. How awful he is for not having the sensitivity that there are workers in factories that don’t support purely the teams who have qualified - see, he’s so out of touch. Just because your nations team isn’t in the tournament it doesn’t mean you can’t be looking forward to it. Or some such.
The coverage as a whole is symptomatic of how utterly fucking pathetic our media has become. Obsessed with comedy photo ops and 'gotcha' moments to clip for social media, and daft questions that provide nothing in terms of illumination. Woodward and Bernstein they ain't.
It was perfectly encapsulated yesterday morning on Today. The morning after the election being called on the flagship current affairs programme and the lead angle was that some Tory MPs were flabbergasted, annoyed etc. not that we were getting a general election, the general election everyone was calling for and what that meant for the country, the correspondents had been spending their time whatsappung and being briefed how annoyed MPs were.
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
Everything about this turd of a nation is fucked. The politics, the media, the economics, the attitudes, the morality. The way the entire deck is stacked against anyone getting out of their box for a moment. And the slack jaws hose down their bread and circuses clapping like seals for any shit they are told to. We are in the last days of Rome. I like a rant. Cleansing.
Oh dear. Now that the last rump of tories aren’t getting their way, they are attacking the very nation itself.
Everything wrong with your lot, right there. Good riddance to you … for a very, very, long time.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
I still think 50/50 - and if their polling position does improve, probably safe.
From what I understand she has built a personal vote in her seat, and is considered to be quite a decent MP, and plus has been visible in government without attracting the particular stench of much of the rest of the Tory Party. Partly because she’s been carrying swords etc.
Certainly possible the tide carries her away, but of all the risky senior MP losses I think she’s got one of the better chances of clinging on.
Personal vote will be overridden this time around, which means that there will be some genuinely decent people who are steamrollered by the momentum (whilst shits like Michael Gove bail). Electoral Calculus reckon it’s 83% likely Labour that Penny loses her seat and I wouldn’t disagree with that.
We’ll see. But then I know you are forecasting Tory apocalypse whereas my gut is something like 1997. We will see as the campaign progresses.
No my prediction made straight after it was called, on here, is:
Lab 42.5% Con 28.5% LibDem 9%
=
Lab 421 Con 160 LibDem 30 SNP 14
= majority of 185, slightly below 1997
But I’m beginning to think, like the thread header, that it could be a whole lot worse than that for the Conservatives.
Interesting, thanks. I broadly agree with that, though I think of those 160 you’ll see some that have bucked UNS and some that have suffered ridiculous swings against them.
I think the worst thing about the launch of this election campaign is that Sunak doesn't have a convincing story for why people should vote for him, and why the election should be now.
He is talking a lot about having a plan, but that isn't very convincing, because the experience of the last year or so has been that he is flailing around without a plan, desperately trying to find the policy or dividing line that will restore the government's popularity.
The picture that comes to mind is of Sunak, expensive suit ruined by the ash of nuclear fallout, standing alone in a devastated London, and he says, "Don't Let Labour Ruin It."
If the Tories really do face an existential moment after this election it won’t be the end of the right in this country. It will realign and it will come back. This country is far too centre-right in its sensibilities for that not to be the case. Many of us moderate centre-righties like myself will definitely go to Labour this time. It remains to be seen what happens from there on in.
The problem is the FPTP system means that it is really hard for more than two parties get a significant number of seats. THe SNP only managed it because they were in the top two in Scotland. The LDs in 2010 did really well for a third party, and they got what ?12% of the seats. The Centre Right and Proper Right are going to have to try to coalesce inside the Conservative party or otherwise there will be 2 or three partys chasing about 40% of the vote and ending up with 100 MPs in total.
An interesting figure. I never felt Gove really reached the heights in government he could have done. I think he probably himself was aware that he did not have the public-facing persona to ever lead a party, but he should have had the chance at a great office.
I don’t deny the man is flawed, and certainly can be deeply unlikeable, but he is intelligent and interesting.
To my mind the best minister of the last 14 years by a long way. Also interesting that right across the House and outside it people are also saying he was one of the politest and most considerate to those he worked with.
I am not necessarily sorry to see him go as I don't think he was a particularly good politician - which is what you need to be if you are working in Opposition rather than Government - but I certainly think he had more decency in him than practially every other member of the Government (or the Opposition for that matter)
I think Surrey Heath will stay Tory although it could be close, if the Tories are sensible though they will pick a well known local councillor as it will certainly be a LD target seat
The LibDems seem to be up for the fight, according to last night’s Evening Standard, as well as Godalming & Ash. I think Guildford will turn yellow.
Reform UK have had to remove more than 100 general election candidates since the start of the year, more than a dozen of whom were sacked after offensive and racist comments were revealed.
The populist party is now also facing a race against time to meet its pledge to stand a full slate of candidates. It needs to select for as many as 160 constituencies before the cut-off point for nominations in 14 days.
I'm thinking of putting my name forward and then once selected campaigning for more public spending, higher taxes and rejoining the EU. Every party needs its mavericks.
Reformed Reform?
I plan to reverse takeover Reform as they reverse takeover the Tories, and then turn them both into the Conservative Reform Alliance Party; turning shit into CRAP.
Paywalled. Can you give us a summary - is it an attack piece or broadly balanced?
I'd say broadly balanced. Testimonials from his co-workers. some personal statements from himself saying he loves a challenge is determined when he gets his teeth into something and works hard. It's a character portrayal rather than a review of his politics.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
JRM I’d love.
Mordaunt possibly ?
Penny's swordsmanship ensures she survives. .
But she’s in big trouble with her seat isn’t she? I’d say odds on now to lose.
I still think 50/50 - and if their polling position does improve, probably safe.
From what I understand she has built a personal vote in her seat, and is considered to be quite a decent MP, and plus has been visible in government without attracting the particular stench of much of the rest of the Tory Party. Partly because she’s been carrying swords etc.
Certainly possible the tide carries her away, but of all the risky senior MP losses I think she’s got one of the better chances of clinging on.
Personal vote will be overridden this time around, which means that there will be some genuinely decent people who are steamrollered by the momentum (whilst shits like Michael Gove bail). Electoral Calculus reckon it’s 83% likely Labour that Penny loses her seat and I wouldn’t disagree with that.
We’ll see. But then I know you are forecasting Tory apocalypse whereas my gut is something like 1997. We will see as the campaign progresses.
We oscillate between 1997, hung parliament or small majority, and wipeout. There’s surely a non-negligible (read, highly likely) scenario of a big majority, borderline small landslide. A majority between 80 and say 120.
Part of the problem with all this is that by surprising his own Party, Sunak not only left 100 constituencies unselected, but we also now have the incredible optics of rats appearing to flee the sinking hip.
It’s either staggering levels of ineptitude or deliberate sabotage. Either way, this is going to sink them lower, at least for a time.
Catching up, I've had a good laugh tonight. The desperate attempts to resuscitate Sunak by suggesting he's a self-made man born into the most humble of circumstances who pulled himself up by his bootstraps because his parents worked 168 hours a week and he's earned every penny of his multi-millionaire privilege and we could all do the same if we just worked as hard as him and his parents...... Don't think it's going to catch on, somehow.
I feel personally attacked by that comment.
Anyhoo, as somebody who is the victim of the politics of envy, I know it wouldn't catch on.
Comments
The guys who were running it during the coalition, if they had been there these last few years could have taken it to be the opposition but currently they are a wet blancmange who are as Janus like as Starmer.
Woking might too.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/2024-general-election-lib-dems-target-jeremy-hunt-for-their-own-portillo-moment-in-the-blue-wall/ar-BB1mUCLP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gove
Whilst my heart tells me to stand again, there being so much unfinished business across local regeneration and national issues which are important to me, my head knows this to be impossible at this time. It would be difficult to withstand the rigours of an all-out election campaign, a campaign that I’d always wish to lead from the front. Thereafter, upon being re-elected it would be difficult for me to sustain 70 to 80 hour working weeks which were the norm prior to my illness.
I had hoped to phase my return to the House of Commons over the coming months as my abilities improved.
https://x.com/cmackinlay/status/1793976066035294276
It wasn’t until Maybot announced her death reforms that everything imploded.
(picture goes here)
I’ll get back to you
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/24/sir-keir-starmer-labour-interview-general-election-2024/
https://x.com/TSEofPB/status/1794077372188115022
We might as well enjoy this. I don’t suppose we’ll see anything quite like this again in our lifetimes.
Put it this way. Most (all?) Brits grow up painfully aware of the British class system - I certainly did. Class still seams Britain the same way race pervades America, perhaps - or "connections" in Italy. Caste in India, and so on
And yet in the last decade something sincerely happened to me, I don't know what or why it is, an accumulation of travel PLUS extreme experiences which meant it all fell away, something like that. Has it made me a better person? Absolutely not, possibly worse: I am more boastful than ever
eg I sometimes wonder if I am the best travelled person on the planet. I might genuinely be in the top 100
Anyway it is a real thing, but it is extremely tricky to express. I an trying to do it here for free, I hope you are grateful
I don’t deny the man is flawed, and certainly can be deeply unlikeable, but he is intelligent and interesting.
https://order-order.com/2024/05/24/andrea-leadsom-rumoured-to-announce-she-is-standing-down/
You haven’t encountered snobbery until you’ve encountered German aristocratic snobbery.
We claim it has become more meritocratic in the 21st century, but there will always be a difference between, say BoJo and Cameron, vs Rishi and Osborne. And this is the narcissism of small differences - the top 0.1% vs the top 1%. With the other 99% not getting a look in.
And, as Leon points out, this is all increasingly irrelevant against the cavalcade of foreign oligarchs, who could buy the entire lot of us out and still have change left for the jukebox, and a few goes on the pool table.
But the private education system still trains us to think in those old outdated class terms, and it's probably inescapable for anyone who went through the system, at least at that point in time.
As I said on a thread the other day, there is a certain type of chap who went to Charterhouse (et al), who still thinks he's better than Elon Musk even if he's living in a bedsit above a bookies, because that was the order of things.
It's probably why the UK feels the way it does in the 21st century - a strutting peacock, with no feathers.
Captaining a sinking ship - Inside Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's shambolic visit to Northern Ireland
https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/news-opinion/captaining-sinking-ship-prime-ministers-29233530
From what I understand she has built a personal vote in her seat, and is considered to be quite a decent MP, and plus has been visible in government without attracting the particular stench of much of the rest of the Tory Party. Partly because she’s been carrying swords etc.
Certainly possible the tide carries her away, but of all the risky senior MP losses I think she’s got one of the better chances of clinging on.
Is it because I lied when I was only 17 (points behind in the polls)?
It’s a fucking pantomime and the politics is crap because the people who are supposed to be holding their feet to the fire are too invested in the pantomime themselfves. It’s a lot easier to earn your money as a politics journalist by repeating gossip than actually analysing the crap politicians are saying because the journalists, like the politicians, have very rarely actually done anything else of note which would make themselves think, “hang on a minute, when I was working in the steel industry if a boss did this they would be fucked, etc”.
They have Labour winning it by a large margin. I agree.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Portsmouth North
But which of the major offices of state has he held, and what really is his defining policy achievement?
Not to knock him unduly, but the idea he's one of the ten most significant political figures in seventy years is bonkers.
He certainly seems to have lost interest recently. His housing reforms have been watered down endlessly, with very little actually making it into law, and the renters' reforms being abandoned in the wash-up.
... Hmm, you may be onto something. Damn cunning, these lefties.
I like a rant. Cleansing.
You can count on it.
Everything wrong with your lot, right there. Good riddance to you … for a very, very, long time.
Now it all makes sense!
I have come to realise there's a far bigger dividing line in the Tory Party than class, wet or dry, Europe - it's whether you're at it or not.
We would all be better off if we had a better understanding of how and why Germany managed to overtake us within 25 years of being completely flattened, though.
Some on the right fantasise about doing a zero-based spending review - I have some sympathy for that view, though I suspect that many who call for it wouldn't like the result! Perhaps, without going that far, we might think about some of the long-held assumptions that have been baked into our society. How many would we keep if we were forced to start again from scratch?
Lab 42.5%
Con 28.5%
LibDem 9%
=
Lab 421
Con 160
LibDem 30
SNP 14
= majority of 185, slightly below 1997
But I’m beginning to think, like the thread header, that it could be a whole lot worse than that for the Conservatives.
Don't think it's going to catch on, somehow.
He is talking a lot about having a plan, but that isn't very convincing, because the experience of the last year or so has been that he is flailing around without a plan, desperately trying to find the policy or dividing line that will restore the government's popularity.
The picture that comes to mind is of Sunak, expensive suit ruined by the ash of nuclear fallout, standing alone in a devastated London, and he says, "Don't Let Labour Ruin It."
The Centre Right and Proper Right are going to have to try to coalesce inside the Conservative party or otherwise there will be 2 or three partys chasing about 40% of the vote and ending up with 100 MPs in total.
I am not necessarily sorry to see him go as I don't think he was a particularly good politician - which is what you need to be if you are working in Opposition rather than Government - but I certainly think he had more decency in him than practially every other member of the Government (or the Opposition for that matter)
review of his politics.
It’s either staggering levels of ineptitude or deliberate sabotage. Either way, this is going to sink them lower, at least for a time.
Anyhoo, as somebody who is the victim of the politics of envy, I know it wouldn't catch on.