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Does this explain why there’s been no swingback this year? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,524
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    The slaughter was vast. We know from *German* records that 3 million USSR POWs died in German captivity. Starved, shot, beaten, experimented upon, worked to death and straight up murdered.

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,276
    TimS said:

    The government has managed a couple of weeks without a major scandal or really doing something to annoy the public. They’ve had a couple of defections but one didn’t really get clocked by the public and the other was a mixed blessing for Starmer at best. The locals results were bad but they managed expectations well.

    So it’s been, on balance, a decent news month for the Tories. They must be overdue a PR disaster.

    Inflation comes in at 2% tomorrow?

    This will prompt another Sunak relaunch disaster.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,563
    Dopermean said:

    dixiedean said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @matt_dathan
    Exclusive:

    Police are being told to make fewer arrests because of the lack of space in prisons:

    If a Conservative Party after 14 years in power cannot adequately run the prison service then something has gone badly wrong.
    Not really.
    They can't adequately run anything else.
    So why make this exception?
    CYPS referral waiting times over two years now.
    Which means a Year 9 refusing school doesn't get seen, let alone devised a plan, before school is over.
    Prison issue is partly because they cut the court sitting days to "save money", increasing the time and therefore the numbers on remand. This also results in more prosecutions failing because they've taken so long to get to court that CPS have lost evidence, contact details for witnesses etc.
    They're also not adequately funding courses in prison which means prisoners not being paroled because they haven't done the required reoffending courses.

    in 14 years the only aspect they've shown competence at is suspending procurement processes and awarding contracts to unqualified companies run by their cronies.
    There’s a pattern in the last few years of state processes slowing down, backlogs growing and clogging up the system, increasing the ultimate cost. So common it seems to be almost a physical law: NHS waiting lists, hospital beds and social care provision, HS2, prisons and courts, defence procurement, asylum system. No doubt more elsewhere.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,563

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    The slaughter was vast. We know from *German* records that 3 million USSR POWs died in German captivity. Starved, shot, beaten, experimented upon, worked to death and straight up murdered.

    USSR. Not “Russia”.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,516
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?

    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    You certainly can in car production - just get the Chinese to build plants here.
    That worked with Nissan.

    It's unlikely we'll ever be able to do so with solar panel manufacturing, though.

    The Chinese car industry isn't so much about cheap labour anymore as much as superior technology.
    If solar and e-transport are a new engineering paradigm it might be foolish to leave it to China. The Western world flourished by monopolising our superior technology, are we ready to be tech takers 'till the next leap forward?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,671

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?
    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    It makes more sense for us to flood our market with cheap, green technologies from China than it did to flood our market with overpriced, polluting diesels from Germany.
    Indeed: once a panel is installed it will produce electricity essentially forever. Now, there will be some (slow) degradation, but so long as the panel is sealed and kept relatively clean it's going to be negligible.

    That's the joy of solar: once it's in, it's zero marginal cost to the owner into perpetuity.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,524
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    The slaughter was vast. We know from *German* records that 3 million USSR POWs died in German captivity. Starved, shot, beaten, experimented upon, worked to death and straight up murdered.

    USSR. Not “Russia”.
    The vast majority of those who died as prisoners were ethnic Russians. The Nazis, because of their obsessions with race kept detailed records. A particular thing was setting prisoners of different ethnicities against each other - making some trustees etc.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,671

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    And we can only take advantage of the opportunity thanks to Brexit. Let the US and EU have their trade war with China.
    I don't think the EU, which is very keen to keep reducing dependence on Russian oil and gas, is going to join in any US trade war. The EU no longer has any domestic solar industry to protect, as it all went bust in 2009/2010.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,671
    Nigelb said:

    That’s one hell of a community note.
    https://x.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1793027827463492035

    That's quite funny.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,671

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?





    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    Solar panels are very low tech. And once you reach a certain saturation point, demand is going to drop to essentially zero. So, why on earth would the UK want to subsidise their production.

    The reality is that solar is becoming so cheap that it will produce essentially all energy two decades from now. And the panel makers will make essentially no money at all, because it is a low barrier to entry, low margin business.

    And there won't be technologies that follow it, because solar is going to produce such a surfeit of energy, that we're not going to need them.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,671
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The Scottish culture secretary has demanded an urgent meeting with Creative Scotland to discuss why an arts project involving real sex was given over £100,000 in funding.

    Angus Robertson said he is "deeply concerned" about documents obtained by BBC Scotland News which show the original funding application made clear the project would involve real sex.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ceqq04v75p9o

    Why are people so prudish? Why shouldn't real sex be a proper subject for art?
    I don't think the objection is to it being a subject for art (at least, that's not my objection). The objection is that it doesn't seem a terribly good use of public money.
    Wait until you hear about Hinckley Point C!
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,232
    Robust. Why is it such a favourite word of British politicians?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,040
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    That’s one hell of a community note.
    https://x.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1793027827463492035

    That's quite funny.
    This one wins the prize:

    https://x.com/jacobin/status/1792423758256361895
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,671

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    That’s one hell of a community note.
    https://x.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1793027827463492035

    That's quite funny.
    This one wins the prize:

    https://x.com/jacobin/status/1792423758256361895
    :lol:
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,225
    I'm not sure Trump is going to get jail time. I think the jury might split the difference, guilty on some, not guilty on others and the result is a non custodial sentence.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,232
    Yokes said:

    I'm not sure Trump is going to get jail time. I think the jury might split the difference, guilty on some, not guilty on others and the result is a non custodial sentence.

    Trump needs to be defeated by political arguments, and this sort of judicial process is probably a distraction from that.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,671
    Yokes said:

    I'm not sure Trump is going to get jail time. I think the jury might split the difference, guilty on some, not guilty on others and the result is a non custodial sentence.

    That's my guess too: they'll compromise on a single guilty felony count, and the Judge will impose a non-custodial sentence.

    It would be hilarious if it was community service in a facility for asylum seekers.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,232
    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,660
    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    Same reason you get cyclist/pedestrian conflicts all the time. I suspect people will just get better at looking, but until then expect a rise in collisions.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,660
    A
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?





    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    Solar panels are very low tech. And once you reach a certain saturation point, demand is going to drop to essentially zero. So, why on earth would the UK want to subsidise their production.

    The reality is that solar is becoming so cheap that it will produce essentially all energy two decades from now. And the panel makers will make essentially no money at all, because it is a low barrier to entry, low margin business.

    And there won't be technologies that follow it, because solar is going to produce such a surfeit of energy, that we're not going to need them.
    Just imagine the transformative impact it will have on beer gardens. Patio heaters all over the place.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,760
    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,635
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    "Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2"

    The people of the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience, maybe.

    The country as a whole, no. Before 1941, the Soviet Union were sh*ts, as they showed with their actions in Poland and Finland. They were friends with the Nazi, which they should never be allowed to forget.

    And something the tankies always forget. Odd, that.

    The Soviet Union was an imperialist power, as it showed throughout its existence; always trying to expand its borders (e.g. the wars with Poland in 1918, Ukraine to 1921, Finland), and the expansion into Eastern Europe after WW2.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,635

    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    The slaughter was vast. We know from *German* records that 3 million USSR POWs died in German captivity. Starved, shot, beaten, experimented upon, worked to death and straight up murdered.

    USSR. Not “Russia”.
    The vast majority of those who died as prisoners were ethnic Russians. The Nazis, because of their obsessions with race kept detailed records. A particular thing was setting prisoners of different ethnicities against each other - making some trustees etc.
    Slightly off-topic as they were not military personnel, but the Nazis killed hundreds of thousands of Jews in the conquered Ukraine:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Ukraine

    And the general death toll in Ukraine was terrific:
    https://texty.org.ua/projects/103854/occupation_eng/

    Let's not get dewy-eyed over the Russian 'sacrifice' in WW2. They were on the wrong side initially; and much of the sacrifice was not done by Russia.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,635
    Lo and behold, shortly after I write about Russia being an imperialist power, I read this:

    "Russia has decided to unilaterally move the border with Lithuania and Finland in the Baltic Sea

    “According to the document prepared by the Ministry of Defense, Russia intends to declare part of the water area in the east of the Gulf of Finland, as well as near the cities of Baltiysk and Zelenogradsk in the Kaliningrad region, as its internal sea waters.”"

    https://x.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1793008891267052017
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,154

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,760

    Lo and behold, shortly after I write about Russia being an imperialist power, I read this:

    "Russia has decided to unilaterally move the border with Lithuania and Finland in the Baltic Sea

    “According to the document prepared by the Ministry of Defense, Russia intends to declare part of the water area in the east of the Gulf of Finland, as well as near the cities of Baltiysk and Zelenogradsk in the Kaliningrad region, as its internal sea waters.”"

    https://x.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1793008891267052017

    Well that’s going to keep the navies of Europe rather busy in the area for a while - but anything that can distract the idiot from his other war…
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,760
    The Craig Mackinlay sepsis story is horrible, poor guy, yet also extremely lucky to survive.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,983
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?





    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    Solar panels are very low tech. And once you reach a certain saturation point, demand is going to drop to essentially zero. So, why on earth would the UK want to subsidise their production.

    The reality is that solar is becoming so cheap that it will produce essentially all energy two decades from now. And the panel makers will make essentially no money at all, because it is a low barrier to entry, low margin business.

    And there won't be technologies that follow it, because solar is going to produce such a surfeit of energy, that we're not going to need them.
    This is a very optimistic take. I hope you're right. I worry that when you factor in all the real costs, solar may still have a long way to go to be competitive.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,118
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?





    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    Solar panels are very low tech. And once you reach a certain saturation point, demand is going to drop to essentially zero. So, why on earth would the UK want to subsidise their production.

    The reality is that solar is becoming so cheap that it will produce essentially all energy two decades from now. And the panel makers will make essentially no money at all, because it is a low barrier to entry, low margin business.

    And there won't be technologies that follow it, because solar is going to produce such a surfeit of energy, that we're not going to need them.
    Are they ?
    Panel manufacturing in China has become incredibly efficient over the last decade, with a steady stream of incremental manufacturing (and technological) improvements.
    China got much of its manufacturing tech from Germany over a decade ago, but it would be very hard to duplicate what they've learned since (and would mean many billions of investment). We were world leaders in developing perovskites for solar, but China is implementing their use in bulk manufacturing, and their knowledge of how to do so far exceeds ours.

  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,475

    Sandpit said:

    It comes back to the difference between national statistics and personal finances, with the latter severely lagging the former.

    Oh, and the million people who are going to be remortaging from c.1% to c.5% over the next six months, many of whom are going to be forced sellers or raiding savings. Did I mention that before?

    Yep the drip drip of folk re-mortgaging at a higher rate will keep going for some time. My friends, not that interested in politics, are all putting the blame for those increases on the Conservative government. My suggestion that a sub 1% base rate was abnormal and 3% plus is a more historically appropriate figure gets short shrift.

    I almost feel sorry for the Conservatives - for all the rubbish the’ve done the interest rates are largely out of their control. They don’t set ‘em. They were low (for an abnormally long time) because of the financial crash and then COVID. Inevitably money was going to get back to a normal rate at some point. The Conservatives could have done without the Tuss-opcalypse - but I am not sure that we’d be in a particular different place without it.

    I guess if they benefited from cheap money for the last ten years (inflating asset prices and what not) then they should get punished when it is not cheap. It may be unfair, but who said politics is fair. Voters get to blame the people in charge.
    I think the ‘are you better off?’ question is a simple, fair and tangible one, and for too many people the answer is ‘no’. And that number grows ever time a mortgage comes up for renewal, a utilities comp ups their rates or a disappointing pay award is announced.

    While it fair to say that some of this is outside the control of government, they have some problems in that (a) the Trussterfuck is firmly in the national consciousness as an economic wrecking ball, and (b) the government seem to spend much more time and effort on boats, Rwanda and rainbow lanyards.

    Government’s job, in part, is to steer the country wisely through both good and difficult economic times. The party’s job is to sell this, maximising perceived responsibility for good stuff and minimising it for the bad.

    Unfortunately the Tories have become crap at both jobs.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,968

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
    Good morning

    Point of order

    It was the Office for National Statistics that said the economy was ' going gangbusters" not Sunak
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,949
    Sandpit said:

    Lo and behold, shortly after I write about Russia being an imperialist power, I read this:

    "Russia has decided to unilaterally move the border with Lithuania and Finland in the Baltic Sea

    “According to the document prepared by the Ministry of Defense, Russia intends to declare part of the water area in the east of the Gulf of Finland, as well as near the cities of Baltiysk and Zelenogradsk in the Kaliningrad region, as its internal sea waters.”"

    https://x.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1793008891267052017

    Well that’s going to keep the navies of Europe rather busy in the area for a while - but anything that can distract the idiot from his other war…
    He's testing. Straightaway that needs to be denied, publicly proclaimed at the ICJ or similar body and NATO needs to put lots of naval assets there for months doing aggressive patrolling and flyovers.

    Any incursions to be met by a quarantine: ramming and boarding.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,423
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?
    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    It makes more sense for us to flood our market with cheap, green technologies from China than it did to flood our market with overpriced, polluting diesels from Germany.
    Indeed: once a panel is installed it will produce electricity essentially forever. Now, there will be some (slow) degradation, but so long as the panel is sealed and kept relatively clean it's going to be negligible.

    That's the joy of solar: once it's in, it's zero marginal cost to the owner into perpetuity.
    I think mine have a "guarantee" of 90% capacity after 20 years.

    Obvs redress would never happen, but it is an indication.

  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,660
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    I wonder if a harmonica fixed to the handlebars might work? This is a freewheelin' Bob Dylan firing past in lycra.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,660
    MattW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?
    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    It makes more sense for us to flood our market with cheap, green technologies from China than it did to flood our market with overpriced, polluting diesels from Germany.
    Indeed: once a panel is installed it will produce electricity essentially forever. Now, there will be some (slow) degradation, but so long as the panel is sealed and kept relatively clean it's going to be negligible.

    That's the joy of solar: once it's in, it's zero marginal cost to the owner into perpetuity.
    I think mine have a "guarantee" of 90% capacity after 20 years.

    Obvs redress would never happen, but it is an indication.

    There was interesting article somewhere about them being used on walls and fences rather than roofs - much cheaper to install and still worth it given the low unit cost. I assume that's where your ones will end up if they do become sufficiently degraded to warrant a replacement?

    The big tell is that almost every long distance hiker I see in Australia/NZ now has a solar panel fixed to the top of their pack. One of the more challenging aspects of that kind of walking/cycling has been resolved - no more lugging masses of batteries with you.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,015
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    Very odd.

    I use my bell regularly and most pedestrians thank me. Probably used it a dozen times cycling home last night.

    It’s a courtesy.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,642
    Andy_JS said:

    Yokes said:

    I'm not sure Trump is going to get jail time. I think the jury might split the difference, guilty on some, not guilty on others and the result is a non custodial sentence.

    Trump needs to be defeated by political arguments, and this sort of judicial process is probably a distraction from that.
    No-one is above the law, Trump shouldn’t get a free ride on committing fraud, or trying to overthrow an election or stealing secret documents, just because he’s also an awful politician.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,660
    edited May 22
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    Very odd.

    I use my bell regularly and most pedestrians thank me. Probably used it a dozen times cycling home last night.

    It’s a courtesy.
    Of course - it's better than coming up behind them and giving them a shock.

    But still - it says "oi you, get out of my way". I have the same problem when I'm running - do I shout excuse me 30m back to give them time? Feels rude to me.

    And you often get blind panic, with families split across the path, dog leads tangled up etc etc. I prefer to slow down and say "excuse me" at a normal volume, but even that gives people the creeps.

    In Australia they have signs everywhere - "use your bell" and "move to the left if you hear a bell". A little public messaging goes a long way.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,398
    Core inflation went up month on month .

    Zero chance of an early interest rate cut .
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,760
    CPI 2.3% - down but above expectations. Core inflation still 3.9%
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,423
    edited May 22
    ...
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,559
    2.3 % inflation.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,423
    ...
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,218
    Sandpit said:

    CPI 2.3% - down but above expectations. Core inflation still 3.9%

    Good but not yet good enough?

    When do the energy price reductions start falling out of the calculations?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,423
    edited May 22
    There's a good account of Craig McKinley's sepsis on the BBC.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-69037424

    It came on really quickly. He is fortunate to be married to a pharmacist, who did not delay taking action.

    It was on 27 September, when Mr Mackinlay, 57, began feeling unwell. He didn't think much of it, took a Covid test (which came back negative) and had an early night.

    During the night he was badly sick but still didn't think it was anything serious.

    However, as the night wore on, his wife Kati - a pharmacist - began to get worried and tested his blood pressure and temperature.

    By the morning, she noticed that his arms felt cold and she couldn't feel a pulse. After ringing for an ambulance, Mr Mackinlay was admitted to hospital.

    Within half an hour he had turned what he calls "a very strange blue". "My whole body, top to bottom, ears, everything, blue," he says.

    He had gone into septic shock. The MP was put into an induced coma that would last for 16 days.


    I've had 2 weeks in ICU under sedation when I did not know it was coming, and in my case I can confirm the weird dreams he talked about - and how for weeks afterwards they were all jumbled up with reality, including in my case imaginings in my head about abusive things which relatives had not done. It took time mentally to untangle it all, and move into less fraught perceptions.

    Tip: I'm sure most here do, but it is worth repeating. Make sure the wills, the Powers of Attorney, accessible funds (the bank will freeze things in their name immediately) and so on are in place first; it can be hellish for those left behind to cope if they aren't when you die.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,048

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
    As ever, the Urban Dictionary can help

    gangbusters

    Gang Busters was a famous radio program that was first heard in 1936 and aired until 1957. The sound effects of police sirens, tommyguns, and screeching tires that opened the show were dramatic and exciting -- this inspired the expression 'coming on like gangbusters'.
    Usage has opened up to describe things that are not just exciting, but successful, intense, and many other adjectives, and many drop the 'coming on like' prefix. I think we should be more careful about how we use it, and keep it true to its origin -- something that starts with much excitement and drama is 'coming on like gangbusters'.

    http://gangbusters.urbanup.com/2792675
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,398

    Sandpit said:

    CPI 2.3% - down but above expectations. Core inflation still 3.9%

    Good but not yet good enough?

    When do the energy price reductions start falling out of the calculations?
    This month included a large drop in the price of energy . Later into the summer in July the energy price cap is expected to be lowered . Next months reading should not be effected by any energy price drops .
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,968
    edited May 22
    MattW said:

    There's a good account of Craig McKinley's sepsis on the BBC.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-69037424

    It came on really quickly. He is fortunate to be married to a pharmacist, who did not delay taking action.

    It was on 27 September, when Mr Mackinlay, 57, began feeling unwell. He didn't think much of it, took a Covid test (which came back negative) and had an early night.

    During the night he was badly sick but still didn't think it was anything serious.

    However, as the night wore on, his wife Kati - a pharmacist - began to get worried and tested his blood pressure and temperature.

    By the morning, she noticed that his arms felt cold and she couldn't feel a pulse. After ringing for an ambulance, Mr Mackinlay was admitted to hospital.

    Within half an hour he had turned what he calls "a very strange blue". "My whole body, top to bottom, ears, everything, blue," he says.

    He had gone into septic shock. The MP was put into an induced coma that would last for 16 days.


    I've had 2 weeks in ICU under sedation when I did not know it was coming, and in my case I can confirm the weird dreams he talked about - and how for weeks afterwards they were all jumbled up with reality, including in my case imaginings in my head about abusive things which relatives had not done. It took time mentally to untangle it all, and move into less fraught perceptions.

    Tip: I'm sure most here do, but it is worth repeating. Make sure the wills, the Powers of Attorney, accessible funds (the bank will freeze things in their name immediately) and so on are in place first; it can be hellish for those left behind to cope if they aren't when you die.

    Very good advice and we have ensured both our wills and our poa are in place

    I would just say that the earlier they are completed the better as they can take some months to obtain
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,423
    edited May 22
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    Very odd.

    I use my bell regularly and most pedestrians thank me. Probably used it a dozen times cycling home last night.

    It’s a courtesy.
    Of course - it's better than coming up behind them and giving them a shock.

    But still - it says "oi you, get out of my way". I have the same problem when I'm running - do I shout excuse me 30m back to give them time? Feels rude to me.

    And you often get blind panic, with families split across the path, dog leads tangled up etc etc. I prefer to slow down and say "excuse me" at a normal volume, but even that gives people the creeps.

    In Australia they have signs everywhere - "use your bell" and "move to the left if you hear a bell". A little public messaging goes a long way.
    This is good advice.

    I have 3 bells - a single-tone penetrating "ting" that came installed. A "wake up the bus driver who did not see because he did not look" buzzer. And my voice, which usually hoots something like "Good morning, can I squeeze past?" from perhaps 6-12m away, which would be 2-4s warning on a pavement or footpath.

    I stopped saying "On your left" or similar because about half focus on "left", and move left.

    In this area I find relatively few problems and interactions are fine even on busy paths, but most people out off-road are dog walkers. There seem to be a *lot* more of these compared to say 2020, but we do have some new housing.

    There are hardly any scooter or wheelchair users since nearly all the paths are barriered off and exclude or hinder them :smile: .

    The e-folder came with lights and a small hooter installed, which is not capable of penetrating motor vehicles.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,406
    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,406

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    ...like the core inflation of 3.9%

    Like in USA, inflation remains more persistent than expected
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,587

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    You are completely missing the point. He was treating Russia/Soviet Union as one and the same thing. There is no evidence that 27 million Russians died in WW2.
    @FrankBooth , people don't realise that "Russia" and "The Soviet Union" were not coterminous, in the same way as "England" is not the same as "The United Kingdom". That's why they are getting confused.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,968
    edited May 22

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    I find it remarkable that the figure is even close to 2% and whether an interest rate cut is delayed a month or two is not as important as the battle to control inflation seems to have been won

    I would just add if the BOE had done their job properly interest rates would have been rising longer towards the long term average which we are now seeing
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,218

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    ...like the core inflation of 3.9%

    Like in USA, inflation remains more persistent than expected
    Isn't inflation always more persistent than expected?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,587
    edited May 22
    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    You are completely missing the point. He was treating Russia/Soviet Union as one and the same thing. There is no evidence that 27 million Russians died in WW2.
    @FrankBooth , people don't realise that "Russia" and "The Soviet Union" were not coterminous, in the same way as "England" is not the same as "The United Kingdom". That's why they are getting confused.
    * Russia before 1991: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Soviet_Federative_Socialist_Republic
    * Soviet Union: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,005

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    I find it remarkable that the figure is even close to 2% and whether an interest rate cut is delayed a month or two is not as important as the battle to control inflation seems to have been won

    I would just add if the BOE had done their job properly interest rates would have been rising longer towards the long term average which we are now seeing
    Not so fast, have you filled your car up lately? Diesel price increases feed into everything else. Nothing dramatic, but I can see small upticks later in the year.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,398

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    I find it remarkable that the figure is even close to 2% and whether an interest rate cut is delayed a month or two is not as important as the battle to control inflation seems to have been won

    I would just add if the BOE had done their job properly interest rates would have been rising longer towards the long term average which we are now seeing
    I'm not sure the battle is won. Services inflation is still 5.9%. The headline is being dragged down by energy, which will be transient. Unless services inflation falls back, the headline number will revert back to a too high level once the drop in utility prices falls out.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,118
    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?

    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    Solar panels are very low tech. And once you reach a certain saturation point, demand is going to drop to essentially zero. So, why on earth would the UK want to subsidise their production.

    The reality is that solar is becoming so cheap that it will produce essentially all energy two decades from now. And the panel makers will make essentially no money at all, because it is a low barrier to entry, low margin business.

    And there won't be technologies that follow it, because solar is going to produce such a surfeit of energy, that we're not going to need them.
    This is a very optimistic take. I hope you're right. I worry that when you factor in all the real costs, solar may still have a long way to go to be competitive.
    On what basis ?

    Solar LCOE now 29% lower than any fossil fuel option, says EY

    https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/12/08/solar-lcoe-now-29-lower-than-any-fuel-fossil-option-says-ey/
    EY said in its latest energy and resources report that 86%, or 187 GW, of newly commissioned renewable energy resources generated electricity at a cost lower than the average cost of fossil fuel generation in 2022.

    Solar is the cheapest new-build electricity in many markets, even amid inflation and price rises, said EY, noting that the global weighted average LCOE for solar is now 29% lower than the cheapest fossil fuel alternative. Large-scale energy storage is also quickly becoming more cost-competitive and sophisticated, it said.

    Solar has rapidly fallen in average LCOE globally, from more than $400/MWh in the early 2010s to about $49/MWh in 2022, down 88%. Wind power LCOE has fallen roughly 60% over the same period...


    It's only going to get cheaper over time, relative to other energy assets.
    There are still incremental improvements to be wrung out of cost of materials, panel efficiency and manufacturing efficiency.
    There's also the possibility down the road of polysilicon ingot production using solar generated power (Saudi Arabia's future industry ?)
    China will probably reduce its industry subsidies over time, but panel demand and production isn't going to fall over the next decade at least.

    The efficiency of generation usage is only going to improve, too - with increasing storage, not least as the number of EVs grows.

    What are the counter arguments ?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,423
    edited May 22

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
    That's interesting (having snipped the explanation).

    Going like gangbusters is a phrase which is just part of my vocabulary since childhood, and still is sometimes.

    It's used of intense or quick, slightly chaotic activity. Going at it like Gangbusters might be a not-stopping titfer-tatfer type argument in a pub (we have those on PB esp. when Bart is around), or kids running around, or even raining cats and dogs ('raining like gangbusters').

    For a sense of the feel of a situation where the phrase fits, try the theme music from Dick Barton Special Agent.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L7XzCyQopY

    I'd say this is the Government pretending to be 'at street level'. Having burnt down everything including their achievements I don't see it working. Rishi could dress up as Donald Duck, and we would still not be interested.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,607

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
    As ever, the Urban Dictionary can help

    gangbusters

    Gang Busters was a famous radio program that was first heard in 1936 and aired until 1957. The sound effects of police sirens, tommyguns, and screeching tires that opened the show were dramatic and exciting -- this inspired the expression 'coming on like gangbusters'.
    Usage has opened up to describe things that are not just exciting, but successful, intense, and many other adjectives, and many drop the 'coming on like' prefix. I think we should be more careful about how we use it, and keep it true to its origin -- something that starts with much excitement and drama is 'coming on like gangbusters'.

    http://gangbusters.urbanup.com/2792675
    I had a spud-gun when I was little called a “Gangbuster”. Oh the fond memories my family have of it.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,827
    edited May 22

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    I find it remarkable that the figure is even close to 2% and whether an interest rate cut is delayed a month or two is not as important as the battle to control inflation seems to have been won

    I would just add if the BOE had done their job properly interest rates would have been rising longer towards the long term average which we are now seeing
    I'm not sure the battle is won. Services inflation is still 5.9%. The headline is being dragged down by energy, which will be transient. Unless services inflation falls back, the headline number will revert back to a too high level once the drop in utility prices falls out.
    There will be a poor harvest this year because of the persistent wet weather, and this has not just affected the UK. Marked drought in southern central Africa and continuing war in Ukraine means food inflation will not be good this year too.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,218
    MattW said:

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
    That's interesting (having snipped the explanation).

    Going like gangbusters is a phrase which is just part of my vocabulary since childhood, and still is sometimes.

    It's used of intense or quick, slightly chaotic activity. Going at it like Gangbusters might be a not-stopping titfer-tatfer type argument in a pub (we have those on PB esp. when Bart is around), or kids running around, or even raining cats and dogs ('raining like gangbusters').

    For a sense of the feel of a situation where the phrase fits, try the theme music from Dick Barton Special Agent.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L7XzCyQopY

    I'd say this is the Government pretending to be 'at street level'. Having burnt down everything including their achievements I don't see it working. Rishi could dress up as Donald Duck, and we would still not be interested.
    Given that Donald Duck didn't wear trousers, I blooming well hope Rishi doesn't.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,885

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    No July election? Awww
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,827
    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?

    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    Solar panels are very low tech. And once you reach a certain saturation point, demand is going to drop to essentially zero. So, why on earth would the UK want to subsidise their production.

    The reality is that solar is becoming so cheap that it will produce essentially all energy two decades from now. And the panel makers will make essentially no money at all, because it is a low barrier to entry, low margin business.

    And there won't be technologies that follow it, because solar is going to produce such a surfeit of energy, that we're not going to need them.
    This is a very optimistic take. I hope you're right. I worry that when you factor in all the real costs, solar may still have a long way to go to be competitive.
    On what basis ?

    Solar LCOE now 29% lower than any fossil fuel option, says EY

    https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/12/08/solar-lcoe-now-29-lower-than-any-fuel-fossil-option-says-ey/
    EY said in its latest energy and resources report that 86%, or 187 GW, of newly commissioned renewable energy resources generated electricity at a cost lower than the average cost of fossil fuel generation in 2022.

    Solar is the cheapest new-build electricity in many markets, even amid inflation and price rises, said EY, noting that the global weighted average LCOE for solar is now 29% lower than the cheapest fossil fuel alternative. Large-scale energy storage is also quickly becoming more cost-competitive and sophisticated, it said.

    Solar has rapidly fallen in average LCOE globally, from more than $400/MWh in the early 2010s to about $49/MWh in 2022, down 88%. Wind power LCOE has fallen roughly 60% over the same period...


    It's only going to get cheaper over time, relative to other energy assets.
    There are still incremental improvements to be wrung out of cost of materials, panel efficiency and manufacturing efficiency.
    There's also the possibility down the road of polysilicon ingot production using solar generated power (Saudi Arabia's future industry ?)
    China will probably reduce its industry subsidies over time, but panel demand and production isn't going to fall over the next decade at least.

    The efficiency of generation usage is only going to improve, too - with increasing storage, not least as the number of EVs grows.

    What are the counter arguments ?
    Cheap solar is going to electrify Africa. That could get their economies going gangbusters...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,118
    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    You are completely missing the point. He was treating Russia/Soviet Union as one and the same thing. There is no evidence that 27 million Russians died in WW2.
    @FrankBooth , people don't realise that "Russia" and "The Soviet Union" were not coterminous, in the same way as "England" is not the same as "The United Kingdom". That's why they are getting confused.
    What's also not widely recognised, tbf, is just how much the mortality rate of Soviet POWs exceeded that of any other nationality - second only to the Holocaust in terms of Nazi mass murder.

    There are no accurate figures, for obvious reasons, but it's certain that a considerably larger percentage of the population of what's now Ukraine died fighting Hitler, than did that of what's now Russia.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,423
    edited May 22

    MattW said:

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
    That's interesting (having snipped the explanation).

    Going like gangbusters is a phrase which is just part of my vocabulary since childhood, and still is sometimes.

    It's used of intense or quick, slightly chaotic activity. Going at it like Gangbusters might be a not-stopping titfer-tatfer type argument in a pub (we have those on PB esp. when Bart is around), or kids running around, or even raining cats and dogs ('raining like gangbusters').

    For a sense of the feel of a situation where the phrase fits, try the theme music from Dick Barton Special Agent.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L7XzCyQopY

    I'd say this is the Government pretending to be 'at street level'. Having burnt down everything including their achievements I don't see it working. Rishi could dress up as Donald Duck, and we would still not be interested.
    Given that Donald Duck didn't wear trousers, I blooming well hope Rishi doesn't.
    Incidentally, Gang Busters Episode 1 on Youtube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUZWkFqCnrk

    This is a TV version from 1949. Very modern title sequence for then, I think. It may be dramatised "true crime".

    It was sponsored by Grape Nuts and Wrigleys.

    Returning to CBS on January 8, 1949, it ran until June 25, 1955, sponsored by Grape-Nuts and Wrigley's chewing gum. The final series was on the Mutual Broadcasting System from October 5, 1955 to November 27, 1957.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_Busters
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,670
    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    In other news, I see Russian state TV has started airing Tucker Carlson's show.

    I've just listened to Jonathan Dimbleby on Times Radio. He's written a book about how Stalin won the war. Amazingly he quotes the figure of 27 million Russian deaths. I've looked online and can only find this number as relating to the Soviet Union as a whole. I've seen a figure of 1.5m Ukrainian military deaths fighting the Nazis. More than Britain suffered in both world wars combined. Has anyone EVER mentioned this? I doubt Dimbleby ever has.

    He comes across as yet another romantic Russian sentimentalist. He wants us to understand why ordinary Russians 'feel' the way they do towards the west. Well they've been indoctrinated by generations of leaders. The fact they go on about their own personal sacrifice yet seem blissfully unaware of that of their neighbours, sometimes as a result of their own brutality coming from Moskva.
    It is entirely possible to hold both awed admiration for the Soviet Union's heroism, suffering and resilience in WW2 and revulsion for their crimes and those of the more recent Russia.
    It's not that difficult.
    You are completely missing the point. He was treating Russia/Soviet Union as one and the same thing. There is no evidence that 27 million Russians died in WW2.
    @FrankBooth , people don't realise that "Russia" and "The Soviet Union" were not coterminous, in the same way as "England" is not the same as "The United Kingdom". That's why they are getting confused.
    There may even be people out there who believe ‘England’ was an enthusiastic ally of ‘Russia’ between 1941 & 1945.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,056

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    I find it remarkable that the figure is even close to 2% and whether an interest rate cut is delayed a month or two is not as important as the battle to control inflation seems to have been won

    I would just add if the BOE had done their job properly interest rates would have been rising longer towards the long term average which we are now seeing
    Core inflation is 3.9%. Significantly higher than expected. This is not good news despite what the clueless incompetent Tory politicians say.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,333
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    Very odd.

    I use my bell regularly and most pedestrians thank me. Probably used it a dozen times cycling home last night.

    It’s a courtesy.
    90% of the time when I would use my bell while cycling pedestrians would react in shocked panic. And that's even with my unusual bell.

    When I've been walking and I've heard a bell, though I know it's a courtesy, my first reaction is similar - do I need to get out of the way? I think it helps if you, the cyclist is going a bit slower, but there's an element of instinct behind the panic response, and some people seem really put out by it, as though using the bell is rude.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,670

    MattW said:

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
    That's interesting (having snipped the explanation).

    Going like gangbusters is a phrase which is just part of my vocabulary since childhood, and still is sometimes.

    It's used of intense or quick, slightly chaotic activity. Going at it like Gangbusters might be a not-stopping titfer-tatfer type argument in a pub (we have those on PB esp. when Bart is around), or kids running around, or even raining cats and dogs ('raining like gangbusters').

    For a sense of the feel of a situation where the phrase fits, try the theme music from Dick Barton Special Agent.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L7XzCyQopY

    I'd say this is the Government pretending to be 'at street level'. Having burnt down everything including their achievements I don't see it working. Rishi could dress up as Donald Duck, and we would still not be interested.
    Given that Donald Duck didn't wear trousers, I blooming well hope Rishi doesn't.
    Perhaps no trousers is the logical conclusion to Rishi’s shrinking breeks.
  • Options
    RattersRatters Posts: 890
    Headline inflation will likely fall again next month, by a smaller margin, but potentially to the 2% target or slightly below.

    Thereafter we'll likely see it trend upwards for a while as the drop in energy prices this year will be smaller than last year.

    But gone are the days of very high inflation. And with interest rates 3% above headline inflation, I expect the Bank of England will start to modestly cut rates this summer despite core and services inflation remaining above target.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,333

    Sandpit said:

    Lo and behold, shortly after I write about Russia being an imperialist power, I read this:

    "Russia has decided to unilaterally move the border with Lithuania and Finland in the Baltic Sea

    “According to the document prepared by the Ministry of Defense, Russia intends to declare part of the water area in the east of the Gulf of Finland, as well as near the cities of Baltiysk and Zelenogradsk in the Kaliningrad region, as its internal sea waters.”"

    https://x.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1793008891267052017

    Well that’s going to keep the navies of Europe rather busy in the area for a while - but anything that can distract the idiot from his other war…
    He's testing. Straightaway that needs to be denied, publicly proclaimed at the ICJ or similar body and NATO needs to put lots of naval assets there for months doing aggressive patrolling and flyovers.

    Any incursions to be met by a quarantine: ramming and boarding.
    Interesting that you mention the ICJ, and that this happens at exactly the same moment as the US is undermining the independence of the ICC.

    Oh, and is that the same ICJ that might have a word to say about Diego Garcia?

    We either live by an international rules-based order, or we don't.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,423

    MattW said:

    ...

    DavidL said:

    Curious thing is that we've had two fairly chunky NI cuts- 4p off is definitely in the "shameless bribe, but it's a bloody good one" range.

    And yet not a ripple in the polls.

    Some of that will be that it's just one cog in the machine, but it's amazing how ineffectual it has been, polling-wise.

    Probably because most of the media enthusiastically reported that you were in worse off because of fiscal drift. When is a tax cut not a tax cut? When your bottom line goes down.
    Opposite way around?

    The client media including the BBC have reported Rishi's assertion that £900 tax cuts have been given to all taxpayers. That is arrant nonsense. When taxpayers have applied reality and no increase in their threshold they remain unconvinced that taxes have fallen.

    Meanwhile prices ( now stable) have gone through the roof and mortgage repayments are stratospheric. Rishi says the economy is "going gangbusters". Voters are yet to feel that good news. Diesel back North of £1.60 a litre doesn't look like "going gangbusters" yet.
    Does anyone even know what “going gangbusters” means? It’s another horrific buzz phrase that appeared seemingly from nowhere a few years ago and gained some currency among political nerds. I have never heard anyone utter it in real life.

    “It’d give Sainsbury’s a miss today, Doris, it’s going gangbusters in there.”
    That's interesting (having snipped the explanation).

    Going like gangbusters is a phrase which is just part of my vocabulary since childhood, and still is sometimes.

    It's used of intense or quick, slightly chaotic activity. Going at it like Gangbusters might be a not-stopping titfer-tatfer type argument in a pub (we have those on PB esp. when Bart is around), or kids running around, or even raining cats and dogs ('raining like gangbusters').

    For a sense of the feel of a situation where the phrase fits, try the theme music from Dick Barton Special Agent.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L7XzCyQopY

    I'd say this is the Government pretending to be 'at street level'. Having burnt down everything including their achievements I don't see it working. Rishi could dress up as Donald Duck, and we would still not be interested.
    Given that Donald Duck didn't wear trousers, I blooming well hope Rishi doesn't.
    Perhaps no trousers is the logical conclusion to Rishi’s shrinking breeks.
    I've done it now, haven't I ? :smile:

    That started this morning as "Donald Schmuck" for a tweet about Mr Trump and his singularly self-collapsing defence witness.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,563

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    I find it remarkable that the figure is even close to 2% and whether an interest rate cut is delayed a month or two is not as important as the battle to control inflation seems to have been won

    I would just add if the BOE had done their job properly interest rates would have been rising longer towards the long term average which we are now seeing
    I'm not sure the battle is won. Services inflation is still 5.9%. The headline is being dragged down by energy, which will be transient. Unless services inflation falls back, the headline number will revert back to a too high level once the drop in utility prices falls out.
    Services inflation combined with wage inflation is potentially a *good thing* as it further erodes UK private indebtedness, in a way that (imported) goods inflation with wage stagnation was a decidedly bad thing. I don’t think we should worry too much about service sector and wage inflation - it’s those energy and commodity prices we don’t want to see going up again.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,118
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    A chance for Britain to use its Brexit freedoms:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/21/janet-yellen-eu-us-chinese-exports-tariffs-electric-vehicles

    Janet Yellen, the US treasury secretary, has urged the EU to intervene urgently to dampen the growing export levels of Chinese cut-price green technology including solar panels and wind turbines, pushing European leaders to move to a full-scale trade war.

    Wait:

    Why would we want to not import cut price solar panels that reduce our dependence on imported oil and gas?

    If the Chinese want to sell us solar panels at less than cost, there is no way that is anything other than outstandingly good news for the UK.
    Huge question.

    One Starmer will face very soon.

    Is it Net Zero or protect "out dated" jobs and technologies?

    Swing voters in, say, the Midlands know what they want.

    And yet, maybe - grab these cheap net zero products and run with it. Certainly AEP at Telegraph thinks so iirc. We are in a massive inflection point and we have lost the first round of solar/EV. Can we catch up with some kind of next gen techology? New types of battery? Technology, markets, capitalism, Schumpeterian growth can be brutal.

    But - maybe issues with how labour is used to produce such cheap products?

    Who would be a politician in these changing times?

    I don't think you can catch up without the industrial foundations. If we saturate our market with cheap imports this has to be done on the understanding that we're never going to be competing with the Chinese on mass market green technologies.
    Solar panels are very low tech. And once you reach a certain saturation point, demand is going to drop to essentially zero. So, why on earth would the UK want to subsidise their production.

    The reality is that solar is becoming so cheap that it will produce essentially all energy two decades from now. And the panel makers will make essentially no money at all, because it is a low barrier to entry, low margin business.

    And there won't be technologies that follow it, because solar is going to produce such a surfeit of energy, that we're not going to need them.
    This is a very optimistic take. I hope you're right. I worry that when you factor in all the real costs, solar may still have a long way to go to be competitive.
    On what basis ?

    Solar LCOE now 29% lower than any fossil fuel option, says EY

    https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/12/08/solar-lcoe-now-29-lower-than-any-fuel-fossil-option-says-ey/
    EY said in its latest energy and resources report that 86%, or 187 GW, of newly commissioned renewable energy resources generated electricity at a cost lower than the average cost of fossil fuel generation in 2022.

    Solar is the cheapest new-build electricity in many markets, even amid inflation and price rises, said EY, noting that the global weighted average LCOE for solar is now 29% lower than the cheapest fossil fuel alternative. Large-scale energy storage is also quickly becoming more cost-competitive and sophisticated, it said.

    Solar has rapidly fallen in average LCOE globally, from more than $400/MWh in the early 2010s to about $49/MWh in 2022, down 88%. Wind power LCOE has fallen roughly 60% over the same period...


    It's only going to get cheaper over time, relative to other energy assets.
    There are still incremental improvements to be wrung out of cost of materials, panel efficiency and manufacturing efficiency.
    There's also the possibility down the road of polysilicon ingot production using solar generated power (Saudi Arabia's future industry ?)
    China will probably reduce its industry subsidies over time, but panel demand and production isn't going to fall over the next decade at least.

    The efficiency of generation usage is only going to improve, too - with increasing storage, not least as the number of EVs grows.

    What are the counter arguments ?
    Cheap solar is going to electrify Africa. That could get their economies going gangbusters...
    North Africa quickest, I think ?
    Note the bit about Moroccan car manufacturing I posted upthread - both France and China have invested heavily there.

    As solar energy rich, low cost manufacturing bases close to Europe, the more politically stable N African countries have promising futures.

    Off grid solar will likely supply quite a lot of sub-Saharan Africa.

  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,901
    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people before, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Poland isn't anywhere near on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita as far qs I can see?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,118
    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people anymore, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Labour are terrified of saying anything the Tories might use against them electorally. If they behave like that in government, it's going to be a very disappointing half decade in prospect.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,143
    You can spot the pensioners who don't have to remortgage on this thread from space
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,306
    Pulpstar said:

    You can spot the pensioners who don't have to remortgage on this thread from space

    Eagles don't get as far as space. Wherever this thread came from, it wasn't there.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,079
    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people anymore, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Yes. It's a particularly stupid comment. But I think it does reveal a hidden truth. Starmer and therefore his Labour party is uninterested in foreign affairs. Remarkably Sunak also has little interest, but delegates to Cameron who seems to be doing a good job. I doubt Lammy will be effective for Starmer. Foreign affairs could trip up the next government I suspect.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,563
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people before, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Poland isn't anywhere near on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita as far qs I can see?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    This is the sorpasso predicted for between 2030 and 2035 based on medium term trends, heralded by Tusk earlier this year.

    It may well take longer but Poland’s catch up since 1989 has been simply stunning. And EU membership has propelled it.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,894
    Talking about copyright and access to old performances - there is a nice piece in the Graun on Tom Lehrer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/may/22/my-songs-spread-like-herpes-why-did-satirical-genius-tom-lehrer-swap-worldwide-fame-for-obscurity#comment-167699063

    'Then, in 2020, Lehrer put out a statement saying that he had placed everything he ever wrote in the public domain. His lyrics and sheet music are now available for anyone to use or perform without paying royalties. The statement ended: “Don’t send me any money.” This is unheard-of. Famous performers usually maximise their royalties income. In my book about the 60s, I quoted the odd line from songs by the likes of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, and my horrified publishers took the lot out. The royalties would bankrupt them, they said.'
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,563
    Pulpstar said:

    You can spot the pensioners who don't have to remortgage on this thread from space

    Are they the ones on the satellite map with large swathes of green around them after several successful rounds of opposing planning applications?
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,015
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    Very odd.

    I use my bell regularly and most pedestrians thank me. Probably used it a dozen times cycling home last night.

    It’s a courtesy.
    Of course - it's better than coming up behind them and giving them a shock.

    But still - it says "oi you, get out of my way"
    Hardly, it is a warning that you are approaching. Especially for dog walkers who let their dogs off their leads. This is certainly the case where I cycle to and from work. Via either the park or a cycle track.

    I always slow down and do not pedal as I go past them too. Sometimes I pull over to let them pass depending on the terrain.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,825

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    Very odd.

    I use my bell regularly and most pedestrians thank me. Probably used it a dozen times cycling home last night.

    It’s a courtesy.
    90% of the time when I would use my bell while cycling pedestrians would react in shocked panic. And that's even with my unusual bell.

    When I've been walking and I've heard a bell, though I know it's a courtesy, my first reaction is similar - do I need to get out of the way? I think it helps if you, the cyclist is going a bit slower, but there's an element of instinct behind the panic response, and some people seem really put out by it, as though using the bell is rude.
    I generally only ring if I want the pedestrian to do something or think they need advance warning.

    So, if a youngish, apparently sober person well on one side of the shared use path (where bikes are common and so being passed is not a big shock and most pedestrians position themselves to one side) with plenty of space for me to pass, I leave it. Elderly, those with kids or dogs or behaving in any way erratically - weaving over path etc - then I ring the bell. And normally some distance away first so it's not a loud noise right behind them, followed up if needed.

    Hardly have to use it elsewhere - I'm on road and pedestrians on path.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,894
    Foxy said:

    No interest rate cuts for a while

    The headline figure of 2.3% looks good (remember it's still above target) but the MPC won't

    I find it remarkable that the figure is even close to 2% and whether an interest rate cut is delayed a month or two is not as important as the battle to control inflation seems to have been won

    I would just add if the BOE had done their job properly interest rates would have been rising longer towards the long term average which we are now seeing
    I'm not sure the battle is won. Services inflation is still 5.9%. The headline is being dragged down by energy, which will be transient. Unless services inflation falls back, the headline number will revert back to a too high level once the drop in utility prices falls out.
    There will be a poor harvest this year because of the persistent wet weather, and this has not just affected the UK. Marked drought in southern central Africa and continuing war in Ukraine means food inflation will not be good this year too.
    Just to cheer us up ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/22/never-ending-uk-rain-10-times-more-likely-climate-crisis-study
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,894
    edited May 22
    Selebian said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    Very odd.

    I use my bell regularly and most pedestrians thank me. Probably used it a dozen times cycling home last night.

    It’s a courtesy.
    90% of the time when I would use my bell while cycling pedestrians would react in shocked panic. And that's even with my unusual bell.

    When I've been walking and I've heard a bell, though I know it's a courtesy, my first reaction is similar - do I need to get out of the way? I think it helps if you, the cyclist is going a bit slower, but there's an element of instinct behind the panic response, and some people seem really put out by it, as though using the bell is rude.
    I generally only ring if I want the pedestrian to do something or think they need advance warning.

    So, if a youngish, apparently sober person well on one side of the shared use path (where bikes are common and so being passed is not a big shock and most pedestrians position themselves to one side) with plenty of space for me to pass, I leave it. Elderly, those with kids or dogs or behaving in any way erratically - weaving over path etc - then I ring the bell. And normally some distance away first so it's not a loud noise right behind them, followed up if needed.

    Hardly have to use it elsewhere - I'm on road and pedestrians on path.
    And don't forget - I'm sure *you* don't - that many people cant even hear the bell.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,957
    The real significance of the fall in CPI is that real wages are now rising fast. It won’t be long at the present rates until the long squeeze on wages is set off and we are back to the “normal” of rising living standards.

    Of course this is an average. In reality those on minimum wages are already doing better whilst many in the public sector are well behind.

    Will any of this feed through in time for the election? I would suspect not. Too many people are still struggling and the mortgage increases will far outweigh these marginal gains.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,306
    Carnyx said:

    Talking about copyright and access to old performances - there is a nice piece in the Graun on Tom Lehrer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/article/2024/may/22/my-songs-spread-like-herpes-why-did-satirical-genius-tom-lehrer-swap-worldwide-fame-for-obscurity#comment-167699063

    'Then, in 2020, Lehrer put out a statement saying that he had placed everything he ever wrote in the public domain. His lyrics and sheet music are now available for anyone to use or perform without paying royalties. The statement ended: “Don’t send me any money.” This is unheard-of. Famous performers usually maximise their royalties income. In my book about the 60s, I quoted the odd line from songs by the likes of the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, and my horrified publishers took the lot out. The royalties would bankrupt them, they said.'

    Tom Lehrer did, of course, not depend on his performances for any income. And, in fact, was only ever a very part time performer (was it 37 concerts)?

    But yes, it was still a great gesture. I downloaded several of his songs from his website - not sure if it's still up.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,670
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people anymore, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Labour are terrified of saying anything the Tories might use against them electorally. If they behave like that in government, it's going to be a very disappointing half decade in prospect.
    It’s really the tabloids that Labour are scared of (no one really cares what the Tories are saying atm). The reptiles will still be there when Lab have a 100+ majority, and I predict they’ll really be letting rip when there are ‘socialists’ (sic) in government.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,339
    ...
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,079
    edited May 22
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people before, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Poland isn't anywhere near on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita as far qs I can see?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    Poland has gone from 50% to 80% of UK per capita GDP in the last ten years PPP. If the trend continues it should overtake the UK within the next ten years.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,587
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    You can spot the pensioners who don't have to remortgage on this thread from space

    Eagles don't get as far as space. Wherever this thread came from, it wasn't there.
    https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235126993-space-1999-eagle-transporter-mpc-172/
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,306
    So Paula Vennells is up today. Does this make up for Trump's refusal to testify in terms of world popcorn prices?

    Also, does anyone have any guesses on what the silly old fool will say?
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,591
    edited May 22
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people before, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Poland isn't anywhere near on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita as far as I can see?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    Nor are we living in autarchic isolation either since exports are about 33% of our GDP and imports 38%.

    But Remainers or Rejoiners or whatever they are never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

    5 million unemployed anyone? House price crash? No foreign alliances or diplomatic agreements?

    Always wrong and never learn.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,825
    Selebian said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Electric cars more likely to hit pedestrians than petrol vehicles, study finds
    Electric and hybrid vehicles are quieter than cars with combustion engines, making them harder to hear, especially in urban areas"

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/electric-cars-more-likely-to-hit-pedestrians-than-petrol-vehicles-study-finds

    We should all be driving V8s. With no silencers.
    It's funny how I feel incredibly rude every time I use my bell to warn a pedestrian, but buzzing around in my car I'm making 10x the noise.

    Very odd.

    I use my bell regularly and most pedestrians thank me. Probably used it a dozen times cycling home last night.

    It’s a courtesy.
    90% of the time when I would use my bell while cycling pedestrians would react in shocked panic. And that's even with my unusual bell.

    When I've been walking and I've heard a bell, though I know it's a courtesy, my first reaction is similar - do I need to get out of the way? I think it helps if you, the cyclist is going a bit slower, but there's an element of instinct behind the panic response, and some people seem really put out by it, as though using the bell is rude.
    I generally only ring if I want the pedestrian to do something or think they need advance warning.

    So, if a youngish, apparently sober person well on one side of the shared use path (where bikes are common and so being passed is not a big shock and most pedestrians position themselves to one side) with plenty of space for me to pass, I leave it. Elderly, those with kids or dogs or behaving in any way erratically - weaving over path etc - then I ring the bell. And normally some distance away first so it's not a loud noise right behind them, followed up if needed.

    Hardly have to use it elsewhere - I'm on road and pedestrians on path.
    But yeah, it does feel rude. I always say thank you as I go past to make it a bit better.

    The issue is also deaf people. One old lady walking her dog I managed four distinct rings before coming up behind her, slowing to her pace, saying "excuse me" and then "EXCUSE ME PLEASE!" and even then it was the dog pulling on the lead that made her turn round and see me.
    "Sorry love, you should have rung your bell!" :lol:

    Of course, she has as much right to be there as I did, no problem, but it probably is a bit hazardous if you have someone else in a hurry who decides to just bundle past anyway.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,827
    FF43 said:

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people before, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Poland isn't anywhere near on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita as far qs I can see?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    Poland has gone from 50% to 80% of UK per capita GDP in the last ten years PPP. If the trend continues it should overtake the UK within the next ten years.
    It's not far off the point that British plumbers will be mourning the loss of FoM preventing them from moving to Poland...
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,005
    ...
    Fishing said:

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Darren Jones shadow chief sec explaining Labour won’t even consider membership of the single market because “it’s the will of the British people” and “Britain needs to fix all its economic problems first rather than relying on international relationships”.

    Well, a. all the polling suggests it’s very much not the will of the British people before, b. why the hell are you parroting the populist terminology of Farage? c. Since when was it an economic rule that you have to fix all your issues while living in autarchic isolation before you can countenance entering the single market? Is that how Poland got to be on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita?

    Could have come out of the mouth of John Redwood.

    Poland isn't anywhere near on the cusp of overtaking the UK on GDP per capita as far as I can see?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
    Nor are we living in autarchic isolation either since exports are about 33% of our GDP and imports 38%.

    But Remainers or Rejoiners or whatever they are never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

    5 million unemployed anyone? House price crash? No foreign alliances or diplomatic agreements?

    Always wrong and never learn.
    Yes, Brexit is "going gangbusters ".
This discussion has been closed.