I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
We no longer have so many residential "mental asylums" for want of a better word. Thatcher's "care in the community" was meant to replace them but has been chronically underfunded, by all governments. So unaddressed mental health issues eventually filtered through to the justice and penal systems.
Part of it could also be due to most people in youth custody now being held in Young Offender Institutions, which are classed as prisons.
Previously, most of them would have been in Borstals, Approved schools, Community Homes, or Secure Training Centres. Borstals closed in the early 80s, YOIs became the default around 1990, I think.
(There are still Secure Training Centres and Secure Homes, but YOIs now account for about 80% of people in youth custody.)
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
Kretinsky has said he will protect jobs and employee rights, Saturday deliveries for 1st class mail and the universal service and would keep the parcels and letters business together and not sell off the former to a Dutch parcels business he also has a stake in. Would need clear contract terms for all of that though.
If Labour get in and this deal is not approved and completed by then I could see them renationalising RM if this is the only way for it to stay privatised (even if Chuka is now working for JP Morgan and with Kretinsky a client to sell this deal to Starmer and Reynolds)
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
I can’t wait to hear from Putin criticising trying to assassinate leaders. I imagine he will be on tv once he’s finished having his briefing on the latest Russian attempt on Zelenskyy.
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
Beeb have an update he was shot several times and 'life threatening' from an update to his FB page Yikes
See what both the university and the police have said.
Presumably threats of murder and rape are what @Roger calls "slights", about which he has seen no evidence. None so blind ....
As for the position of Palestinian prisoners in Israel, I have no knowledge about this so no, I will not be writing about it. There are plenty of people who do know and write well about the situation. There was a recent long review in the NY Review of Books of a book about the abysmal situation for Palestinians in the West Bank, which went into some detail about it. Very very sad and troubling. Well worth getting hold of for anyone interested.
Ooh I'll tell Tarquin and Jemima about that one.
Better still , why don't you do one and give us peace from your bigoted views, you are well named.
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
Beeb have an update he was shot several times and 'life threatening' from an update to his FB page Yikes
I saw the 'FB page' updates on Twitter and dismissed them as not credible (really - someone updating his official Facebook page rather than official announcements or - more likely - silence?). So either I'm not down with how things are done now/in Slovakia or the BBC are stupidly credulous. But presumably they have checked, so I guess it's me.
JCB built and supplied equipment to Russia months after saying exports had stopped
Exclusive: Russian customs records suggest firm owned by major Tory donor kept supplying machines after ‘voluntary pause’
he British digger maker JCB, owned by the billionaire Bamford family, continued to build and supply equipment for the Russian market months after saying it had stopped exports because of Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, the Guardian can reveal.
Russian customs records show that JCB, whose owners are major donors to the Conservative party, continued to make new products available for Russian dealers well after 2 March 2022, when the company publicly stated that it had “voluntarily paused exports” to Russia.
The data raises questions about the accuracy of JCB’s statements on its business in Russia and relationship with its biggest dealer there, Moscow-based Lonmadi, and that company’s former owner, UK-based JVM group.
JCB has repeatedly said that it stopped exporting products to Russia and JVM companies after 2 March 2022 – less than a week after Putin sent troops into Ukraine.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
No, I wouldn't be making jokes about an assassination attempt.
A quick search on Twitter after first reports brought up mostly accounts with similar comments on how coincidental it was that he had been shot after rejecting the WHO global pandemic accord - and then some linking it to stated refusal to send aid to Ukraine. Including Tate (WHO and Ukraine fingered) and Alex Jones (Ukraine).
As you say, motives are likely to become clear in due course.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Yes violence was a lot more accepted in that time. A "fair" fight at closing time was not a police matter nor unusual. Nor was most domestic violence.
I was talking about this yesterday. Britain just seems a much, much less violent place than it used to be. Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Maybe a request for Russian assistance to help deal with sabotage and unrest caused by powerful outside forces…
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Fico is an interesting mix of left wing economic and populist nationalism and social conservatism, he's an outsider in the EU club like Orban
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Yes violence was a lot more accepted in that time. A "fair" fight at closing time was not a police matter nor unusual. Nor was most domestic violence.
I was talking about this yesterday. Britain just seems a much, much less violent place than it used to be. Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
I imagine the likelihood you aren't going to have a fair fistycuffs anymore is rather a deterrent to having a you split my pint mate. You are going to get jumped by 20 and most likely knifed. And every day we see footage on the streets of gangs of youths waving absolutely massive weapons about in broad daylight. No sure I would categorise that as "much less violent".
One thing that did die down, but is coming back, football violence. That is nowhere near what it was in the 80s, so much so that when we do see some now it is shocking. Where as in the 80s, that was a standard Saturday away day stuff of groups having punch ups in and around pubs.
Also we are seeing outbreaks of violence at venues that never suffered this in the past e.g. horse racing. The widespread use of coke is being blamed.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Yes violence was a lot more accepted in that time. A "fair" fight at closing time was not a police matter nor unusual. Nor was most domestic violence.
I was talking about this yesterday. Britain just seems a much, much less violent place than it used to be. Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
I imagine the likelihood you aren't going to have a fair fistycuffs anymore is rather a deterrent to having a you split my pint mate. You are going to get jumped by 20 and most likely knifed. And every day we see footage on the streets of gangs of youths waving absolutely massive weapons about in broad daylight.
One thing that did die down, but is coming back, football violence. That is nowhere near what it was in the 80s, so much so that when we do see some now it is shocking. Where as in the 80s, that was a standard Saturday away day.
Also we are seeing outbreaks of violence at venues that never suffered this in the past e.g. horse racing. The widespread use of coke is being blamed.
Conversely the decline of violence in the 90s was attributed to MDMA. Perhaps we should legalise drugs, but selectively.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Yes violence was a lot more accepted in that time. A "fair" fight at closing time was not a police matter nor unusual. Nor was most domestic violence.
I was talking about this yesterday. Britain just seems a much, much less violent place than it used to be. Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
I imagine the likelihood you aren't going to have a fair fistycuffs anymore is rather a deterrent to having a you split my pint mate. You are going to get jumped by 20 and most likely knifed. And every day we see footage on the streets of gangs of youths waving absolutely massive weapons about in broad daylight.
One thing that did die down, but is coming back, football violence. That is nowhere near what it was in the 80s, so much so that when we do see some now it is shocking. Where as in the 80s, that was a standard Saturday away day.
Also we are seeing outbreaks of violence at venues that never suffered this in the past e.g. horse racing. The widespread use of coke is being blamed.
Conversely the decline of violence in the 90s was attributed to MDMA. Perhaps we should legalise drugs, but selectively.
I heard somewhere that clubbing / EDM scene is far less popular with current yuff generation and many of those chain club venues that where in every town in the 90s / early 2000s, have gone bust or in deep financial trouble.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
"Shocked to hear this awful news. All our thoughts are with Prime Minister Fico and his family."
My first reaction to this was quite uncharitable. How many minutes did I think Sunak would be dedicating to Fico's family? Not many.. But then, something like this probably lands differently for a Prime Minister than for the rest of us. He'll know it could be his family waiting to hear if surgery has saved him from the assassin's bullet.
See what both the university and the police have said.
Presumably threats of murder and rape are what @Roger calls "slights", about which he has seen no evidence. None so blind ....
As for the position of Palestinian prisoners in Israel, I have no knowledge about this so no, I will not be writing about it. There are plenty of people who do know and write well about the situation. There was a recent long review in the NY Review of Books of a book about the abysmal situation for Palestinians in the West Bank, which went into some detail about it. Very very sad and troubling. Well worth getting hold of for anyone interested.
Ooh I'll tell Tarquin and Jemima about that one.
Better still , why don't you do one and give us peace from your bigoted views, you are well named.
And hating on people with Etruscan names? Talk about attacking minorities.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Among the factors compared with the 1970s:
More lifers following abolition of hanging in 1965 Longer sentences especially for violence; murder lengths have been rising rapidly in recent years More concern for domestic violence and violence against women and girls (though much more needed) Drugs and their effects Huge numbers in prison who should be in secure psychiatric care
The large number of historic sex child offenders, most of which is a new category of offenders we mostly literally didn't recognise as existing in 1970.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
The answer is simple. There's more crime today.
No.
We are imprisoning more people for more things we have defined as crimes.
As @DavidL can tell you, business in the historic sex offences realm is brisk, for example. And they are getting long sentences when convicted.
Once again, good actions (convicting people of real, serious, past crimes) has negative consequences.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stop the good actions, by the way. It means we need to deal with the results of our actions.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Among the factors compared with the 1970s:
More lifers following abolition of hanging in 1965 Longer sentences especially for violence; murder lengths have been rising rapidly in recent years More concern for domestic violence and violence against women and girls (though much more needed) Drugs and their effects Huge numbers in prison who should be in secure psychiatric care
The large number of historic sex child offenders, most of which is a new category of offenders we mostly literally didn't recognise as existing in 1970.
Longer sentences for murder...do you have evidence for this? The prevailing narrative is that murders used to get life meaning life, now they get life which is actually 15 years.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Woke hitmen a startling new development.
‘Take out every fucker nor wearing a rainbow lanyard’
I do think a lot of prison problems stem from austerity under Cameron. The story I heard when I was in the civil service was Ken Clarke reckoned Cameron/Osborne wouldn't dare make big budget cuts and so delayed negotiations, overplayed his hand, resulting in a ~25% budget cut.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Among the factors compared with the 1970s:
More lifers following abolition of hanging in 1965 Longer sentences especially for violence; murder lengths have been rising rapidly in recent years More concern for domestic violence and violence against women and girls (though much more needed) Drugs and their effects Huge numbers in prison who should be in secure psychiatric care
The large number of historic sex child offenders, most of which is a new category of offenders we mostly literally didn't recognise as existing in 1970.
Longer sentences for murder...do you have evidence for this? The prevailing narrative is that murders used to get life meaning life, now they get life which is actually 15 years.
The average custodial sentence for all crimes has gone up by ~80% in 20 years:
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Yes violence was a lot more accepted in that time. A "fair" fight at closing time was not a police matter nor unusual. Nor was most domestic violence.
I was talking about this yesterday. Britain just seems a much, much less violent place than it used to be. Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
I imagine the likelihood you aren't going to have a fair fistycuffs anymore is rather a deterrent to having a you split my pint mate. You are going to get jumped by 20 and most likely knifed. And every day we see footage on the streets of gangs of youths waving absolutely massive weapons about in broad daylight.
One thing that did die down, but is coming back, football violence. That is nowhere near what it was in the 80s, so much so that when we do see some now it is shocking. Where as in the 80s, that was a standard Saturday away day.
Also we are seeing outbreaks of violence at venues that never suffered this in the past e.g. horse racing. The widespread use of coke is being blamed.
Conversely the decline of violence in the 90s was attributed to MDMA. Perhaps we should legalise drugs, but selectively.
Unleaded petrol probably made a decent contribution to reducing crime.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Woke hitmen a startling new development.
‘Take out every fucker nor wearing a rainbow lanyard’
What do you think the lanyards are for?
Remember the Ninja Morrismen of New Ankh? Who could do terrible things with a hanky?
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Among the factors compared with the 1970s:
More lifers following abolition of hanging in 1965 Longer sentences especially for violence; murder lengths have been rising rapidly in recent years More concern for domestic violence and violence against women and girls (though much more needed) Drugs and their effects Huge numbers in prison who should be in secure psychiatric care
The large number of historic sex child offenders, most of which is a new category of offenders we mostly literally didn't recognise as existing in 1970.
Longer sentences for murder...do you have evidence for this? The prevailing narrative is that murders used to get life meaning life, now they get life which is actually 15 years.
The average custodial sentence for all crimes has gone up by ~80% in 20 years:
That's interesting, especially as you can get bigger discounts on your sentence for admitting guilt. But that doesn't say anything specific about murder.
It's official: the Netherlands is getting a far-right-led coalition government. The four rightwing parties, led by Geert Wilders' far-right PVV, have agreed a governing accord that sets out their policies, says Wilders. They still have to choose a prime minister (not Wilders)
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's official: the Netherlands is getting a far-right-led coalition government at least for this month. The four rightwing parties, led by Geert Wilders' far-right PVV, have agreed a governing accord that sets out their policies, says Wilders. They still have to choose a prime minister (not Wilders)
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Yes violence was a lot more accepted in that time. A "fair" fight at closing time was not a police matter nor unusual. Nor was most domestic violence.
I was talking about this yesterday. Britain just seems a much, much less violent place than it used to be. Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
There was a period when the centre of Oxford, of all places had guaranteed fighting on weekend nights - the ambulances would actually park up in the centre on Friday and Saturday.
The council, had encouraged the entry of “vertical drinking establishments” - which were, apparently, much more appealing to the Non Middle Class. A couple were located, so that at kicking out, the crowds of customers leaving collided with each other.
I and everyone else who didn’t find that amusing, retreated to Little Clarendon Street.
And, in my case, a certain pub on the mellifluously named street, Friars Entry - due to its customers consisting of bikers, metal heads, goths and genuine nutcases* the problematic never entered. Because the one rule in there was “No trouble within shouting distance of the pub”.
*there was one chap, known as Biz, who spent his entire life 20 seconds from his next fight. But never in That Pub.
It's official: the Netherlands is getting a far-right-led coalition government at least for this monthweek. The four rightwing parties, led by Geert Wilders' far-right PVV, have agreed a governing accord that sets out their policies, says Wilders. They still have to choose a prime minister (not Wilders)
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
LOL yep for sure. Abdominal wound - expected to be in surgery.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Yes violence was a lot more accepted in that time. A "fair" fight at closing time was not a police matter nor unusual. Nor was most domestic violence.
I was talking about this yesterday. Britain just seems a much, much less violent place than it used to be. Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
There was a period when the centre of Oxford, of all places had guaranteed fighting on weekend nights - the ambulances would actually park up in the centre on Friday and Saturday.
The council, had encouraged the entry of “vertical drinking establishments” - which were, apparently, much more appealing to the Non Middle Class. A couple were located, so that at kicking out, the crowds of customers leaving collided with each other.
I and everyone else who didn’t find that amusing, retreated to Little Clarendon Street.
And, in my case, a certain pub on the mellifluously named street, Friars Entry - due to its customers consisting of bikers, metal heads, goths and genuine nutcases* the problematic never entered. Because the one rule in there was “No trouble within shouting distance of the pub”.
*there was one chap, known as Biz, who spent his entire life 20 seconds from his next fight. But never in That Pub.
The Gloucester Arms? Bit different these days. I think I only went in its old incarnation once. It did Addlestones, though, which was always a very pleasant pint.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Among the factors compared with the 1970s:
More lifers following abolition of hanging in 1965 Longer sentences especially for violence; murder lengths have been rising rapidly in recent years More concern for domestic violence and violence against women and girls (though much more needed) Drugs and their effects Huge numbers in prison who should be in secure psychiatric care
The large number of historic sex child offenders, most of which is a new category of offenders we mostly literally didn't recognise as existing in 1970.
Longer sentences for murder...do you have evidence for this? The prevailing narrative is that murders used to get life meaning life, now they get life which is actually 15 years.
'Life' has never meant life, and the 'whole life' orders (about 60 in all) are new. 'Life should mean life' is Daily Mail/Express stuff, not reality at all. I'll see if I can dig out data on increasing lengths of minimum terms but it is pretty obvious if you follow cases.
PS Yes, here is one piece of data from the excellent Prison Reform Trust:
"The minimum terms people on life sentences must spend in custody—known as tariffs—before they can be considered for release on licence are rising. The average tariff imposed for mandatory life sentences for murder rose from 12.5 years in 2003 to 20 years in 2020."
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
LOL yep for sure. Abdominal wound - expected to be in surgery.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
Topping , you see it all the time in films , they just yank the bullet out , pour some spirits over it and stick a cotton pad on it and away they go , you saying me they have been telling porkie.
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
LOL yep for sure. Abdominal wound - expected to be in surgery.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
Topping , you see it all the time in films , they just yank the bullet out , pour some spirits over it and stick a cotton pad on it and away they go , you saying me they have been telling porkie.
Usually after they've staggered back to the hideout and told their moll to stop fussin'
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Among the factors compared with the 1970s:
More lifers following abolition of hanging in 1965 Longer sentences especially for violence; murder lengths have been rising rapidly in recent years More concern for domestic violence and violence against women and girls (though much more needed) Drugs and their effects Huge numbers in prison who should be in secure psychiatric care
The large number of historic sex child offenders, most of which is a new category of offenders we mostly literally didn't recognise as existing in 1970.
Longer sentences for murder...do you have evidence for this? The prevailing narrative is that murders used to get life meaning life, now they get life which is actually 15 years.
'Life' has never meant life, and the 'whole life' orders (about 60 in all) are new. 'Life should mean life' is Daily Mail/Express stuff, not reality at all. I'll see if I can dig out data on increasing lengths of minimum terms but it is pretty obvious if you follow cases.
PS Yes, here is one piece of data from the excellent Prison Reform Trust:
"The minimum terms people on life sentences must spend in custody—known as tariffs—before they can be considered for release on licence are rising. The average tariff imposed for mandatory life sentences for murder rose from 12.5 years in 2003 to 20 years in 2020."
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
LOL yep for sure. Abdominal wound - expected to be in surgery.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
Topping , you see it all the time in films , they just yank the bullet out , pour some spirits over it and stick a cotton pad on it and away they go , you saying me they have been telling porkie.
I don't know how to tell you this Malc...
Speaking of fab films btw The Fall Guy is well worth the entrance price. Must see in a cinema on account of the crash bang wallops and actually, they seem to walk away smiling ruefully from all kinds of mishaps so perhaps Hollywood types are made of sterner stuff than us lot.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Woke hitmen a startling new development.
‘Take out every fucker nor wearing a rainbow lanyard’
What do you think the lanyards are for?
Remember the Ninja Morrismen of New Ankh? Who could do terrible things with a hanky?
Assassination by handkerchief is at least as old as Robert Browning
Or who, in Moscow, toward the Czar, With the demurest of footfalls Over the Kremlin's pavement, bright With serpentine and syenite, Steps, with five other generals, That simultaneously take snuff, For each to have pretext enough To kerchiefwise unfurl his sash Which, softness' self, is yet the stuff To hold fast where a steel chain snaps, And leave the grand white neck no gash?
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
Yeah, same with security vans. They used to be very common target 20-30 years ago, but I would presume the vanishing use of cash and improved security measures means that going out every week bopping a security guard on the head for his cash can isn't such a lucrative approach.
Cash robberies replaced with fraud. Also you can get yourself £10k by snatching some phones for a few days or holding a few people who for their Rolexs.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
The method has just changed. These days when you fancy robbing a bank or two you set up a management consultancy and it is all quite straightforward.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Yes violence was a lot more accepted in that time. A "fair" fight at closing time was not a police matter nor unusual. Nor was most domestic violence.
I was talking about this yesterday. Britain just seems a much, much less violent place than it used to be. Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
There was a period when the centre of Oxford, of all places had guaranteed fighting on weekend nights - the ambulances would actually park up in the centre on Friday and Saturday.
The council, had encouraged the entry of “vertical drinking establishments” - which were, apparently, much more appealing to the Non Middle Class. A couple were located, so that at kicking out, the crowds of customers leaving collided with each other.
I and everyone else who didn’t find that amusing, retreated to Little Clarendon Street.
And, in my case, a certain pub on the mellifluously named street, Friars Entry - due to its customers consisting of bikers, metal heads, goths and genuine nutcases* the problematic never entered. Because the one rule in there was “No trouble within shouting distance of the pub”.
*there was one chap, known as Biz, who spent his entire life 20 seconds from his next fight. But never in That Pub.
The Gloucester Arms? Bit different these days. I think I only went in its old incarnation once. It did Addlestones, though, which was always a very pleasant pint.
Pizza joint for the students.
The beer was always good - they cleaned the lines properly at the end of each night. Had a few free pints from the beer pushed out of the lines at the start…
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
A lot is to do with the nature of the crimes prosecuted. As I have explained before these are now disproportionately sex and involve a lot of historic sex too. If convicted the accused faces a substantial sentence, more than you’d likely get for a drug conviction, which was the standard case 20 years ago.
The result is that prisons are filled with long term offenders, often old with a whole range of other problems. It’s a challenge to an underfunded system.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Fico is an interesting mix of left wing economic and populist nationalism and social conservatism, he's an outsider in the EU club like Orban
This seems to be quite common these days amongst ageing men of the left. Eg Galloway over here - although he doesn't have the almost obligatory Muslim hang-up, just the Jewish one.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
Anna Bob A Job will be on shortly to explain why
I was in London last week and was delighted to see a sign in the door of a barber's saying 'cash only'. Living where I do, cash is still accepted by all and sundry but reading PB would indicate it has been abolished in more advanced civilizations such as the Great Wen.
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
LOL yep for sure. Abdominal wound - expected to be in surgery.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
Topping , you see it all the time in films , they just yank the bullet out , pour some spirits over it and stick a cotton pad on it and away they go , you saying me they have been telling porkie.
The modern version includes miss-using one of those stich gun things to staple themselves back together.
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
LOL yep for sure. Abdominal wound - expected to be in surgery.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit. The runners just went out every day to CVS etc and walked out with the goods, which then got listed on online marketplaces by the end of the day.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
Anna Bob A Job will be on shortly to explain why
I was in London last week and was delighted to see a sign in the door of a barber's saying 'cash only'. Living where I do, cash is still accepted by all and sundry but reading PB would indicate it has been abolished in more advanced civilizations such as the Great Wen.
Cash only is a sign that they are actually a hideout for the woke hitmen from the WHO.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
LOL yep for sure. Abdominal wound - expected to be in surgery.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
A glancing one to the arm or leg. You can just patch that up yourself and get about your day.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
A lot is to do with the nature of the crimes prosecuted. As I have explained before these are now disproportionately sex and involve a lot of historic sex too. If convicted the accused faces a substantial sentence, more than you’d likely get for a drug conviction, which was the standard case 20 years ago.
The result is that prisons are filled with long term offenders, often old with a whole range of other problems. It’s a challenge to an underfunded system.
It's a real social change. It means that huge numbers of middle class/trad respectable people know or know of people who are serving long sentences. I know someone serving 16 years, another serving 8, another who committed suicide instead of going through with what was coming to him. I don't think this would ever have been true of my parents. Tragic. Sad. Depressing.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
Twitter rumours (these are definitely reportedlies!) Fico is in a bad way and transferred to critical care. Hopefully just rumours and he's OK but if not this could very much cause political chaos.
Now announced that he's in surgery - this would seem to be expected with an abdominal wound.
LOL yep for sure. Abdominal wound - expected to be in surgery.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
Topping , you see it all the time in films , they just yank the bullet out , pour some spirits over it and stick a cotton pad on it and away they go , you saying me they have been telling porkie.
Yep, look at Butch and Sundance. Ok they succumbed in the end but Redford in particular took about a dozen and he was still rolling.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
When I worked in a BOS during the summer holidays 30 odd years ago the bank carried about £2-3m in cash at any one time plus at least £0.5m in coins. That would be 3x as much as that now if it had kept up with inflation but I would be surprised if they even had what we had in 1985. ( And I mean in general, the branch I worked at is, of course, a bar. ). Edit. Just realised that is actually nearly 40 years ago. Sigh.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
Anna Bob A Job will be on shortly to explain why
I was in London last week and was delighted to see a sign in the door of a barber's saying 'cash only'. Living where I do, cash is still accepted by all and sundry but reading PB would indicate it has been abolished in more advanced civilizations such as the Great Wen.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
The answer is simple. There's more crime today.
The British Crime Survey suggests that fraud (particularly on-line) is way up, while your likelihood of getting mugged, beaten up, murdered or burgled is way down.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
Anna Bob A Job will be on shortly to explain why
I was in London last week and was delighted to see a sign in the door of a barber's saying 'cash only'. Living where I do, cash is still accepted by all and sundry but reading PB would indicate it has been abolished in more advanced civilizations such as the Great Wen.
Unpaid VAT bill.
Perhaps. But it has always seemed to me that as long as there are income taxes, children, on-course bookies, working class widows on small pensions and small time drug dealers there will be a need for cash.
Barber shop, cash only......they weren't Albanian by any chance?
"Turkish" barbers are the new hand car washes for laundering illicit monies.
Quite convenient for metrosexuals too. So, really, it's win-win.
I don't know if I trust some debt enslaved untrained Albanian working for a drug gang to do a great job of sorting out my barnet and a quality shave.
To be honest, I went to a proper Turkish barbers a few years ago and made the mistake of saying short back and sides please....I came out with such little hair, I might as well have been bald. Although I have to say the shave was good although the cut throat razor and the burning your ear hair is a bit disconcerting.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Woke hitmen a startling new development.
‘Take out every fucker nor wearing a rainbow lanyard’
There was that film recently (?) about psychopathic progressives hunting Trump supporters for sport. I decided not to watch it in case I reacted inappropriately.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
Anna Bob A Job will be on shortly to explain why
I was in London last week and was delighted to see a sign in the door of a barber's saying 'cash only'. Living where I do, cash is still accepted by all and sundry but reading PB would indicate it has been abolished in more advanced civilizations such as the Great Wen.
Unpaid VAT bill.
Perhaps. But it has always seemed to me that as long as there are income taxes, children, on-course bookies, working class widows on small pensions and small time drug dealers there will be a need for cash.
Not to mention takeaways with similar VAT related problems.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
Among the factors compared with the 1970s:
More lifers following abolition of hanging in 1965 Longer sentences especially for violence; murder lengths have been rising rapidly in recent years More concern for domestic violence and violence against women and girls (though much more needed) Drugs and their effects Huge numbers in prison who should be in secure psychiatric care
The large number of historic sex child offenders, most of which is a new category of offenders we mostly literally didn't recognise as existing in 1970.
Longer sentences for murder...do you have evidence for this? The prevailing narrative is that murders used to get life meaning life, now they get life which is actually 15 years.
The average custodial sentence for all crimes has gone up by ~80% in 20 years:
That's interesting, especially as you can get bigger discounts on your sentence for admitting guilt. But that doesn't say anything specific about murder.
The Law West of Ealing Broadway used to be great. He'd regularly do surveys, where he'd say:
- this is the crime, these are the priors, what do you think the sentence would be, and how long do you think he'll serve
People would wildly underestimate the numbers.
And the reason was simple: sentencing only makes the headlines when it is newsworthy. Therefore we tend to only see stories about [x] getting a very low sentence.
Barber shop, cash only......they weren't Albanian by any chance?
"Turkish" barbers are the new hand car washes for laundering illicit monies.
Quite convenient for metrosexuals too. So, really, it's win-win.
I don't know if I trust some debt enslaved untrained Albanian working for a drug gang to do a great job of sorting out my barnet and a quality shave.
To be honest, I went to a proper Turkish barbers a few years ago and made the mistake of saying short back and sides please....I came out with such little hair, I might as well have been bald. Although I have to say the shave was good although the cut throat razor and the burning your ear hair is a bit disconcerting.
Count their fingers. If they still have 8 +2 thumbs of roughly the right shape that’s a good sign.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
But contra to this I was in a Sainsburys a few weeks ago and the security people, three of them, absolutely did take down a shoplifter. They wrestled him to the floor and detained him. It happened right next to me. The perp (who was a big and motivated guy) actually knocked against me as he sought to escape. Bit scary. Thankfully I was ok and able to complete my purchase.
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Woke hitmen a startling new development.
‘Take out every fucker nor wearing a rainbow lanyard’
There was that film recently (?) about psychopathic progressives hunting Trump supporters for sport. I decided not to watch it in case I reacted inappropriately.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
Anna Bob A Job will be on shortly to explain why
I was in London last week and was delighted to see a sign in the door of a barber's saying 'cash only'. Living where I do, cash is still accepted by all and sundry but reading PB would indicate it has been abolished in more advanced civilizations such as the Great Wen.
Unpaid VAT bill.
Perhaps. But it has always seemed to me that as long as there are income taxes, children, on-course bookies, working class widows on small pensions and small time drug dealers there will be a need for cash.
Not to mention takeaways with similar VAT related problems.
I remember a few years ago there was a Chinese takeaway brand called Hotcha and they got busted for laundering £30+ million.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
But contra to this I was in a Sainsburys a few weeks ago and the security people, three of them, absolutely did take down a shoplifter. They wrestled him to the floor and detained him. It happened right next to me. The perp (who was a big and motivated guy) actually knocked against me as he sought to escape. Bit scary. Thankfully I was ok and able to complete my purchase.
"alleged shoplifter", Shirley? Unless convicted. Don't want to see you on the wrong end of a libel case
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
It's perfectly legal for store security guards to physically detain people caught shoplifting with reasonable force.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
The answer is simple. There's more crime today.
No.
We are imprisoning more people for more things we have defined as crimes.
As @DavidL can tell you, business in the historic sex offences realm is brisk, for example. And they are getting long sentences when convicted.
Once again, good actions (convicting people of real, serious, past crimes) has negative consequences.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stop the good actions, by the way. It means we need to deal with the results of our actions.
Don't agree. I think there is more crime today. An inevitable side-effect of a less deferential society.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
But contra to this I was in a Sainsburys a few weeks ago and the security people, three of them, absolutely did take down a shoplifter. They wrestled him to the floor and detained him. It happened right next to me. The perp (who was a big and motivated guy) actually knocked against me as he sought to escape. Bit scary. Thankfully I was ok and able to complete my purchase.
"alleged shoplifter", Shirley? Unless convicted. Don't want to see you on the wrong end of a libel case
Well he was running for the exit with a bottle of scotch under his jumper ... but yes you make a good point.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
The answer is simple. There's more crime today.
No.
We are imprisoning more people for more things we have defined as crimes.
As @DavidL can tell you, business in the historic sex offences realm is brisk, for example. And they are getting long sentences when convicted.
Once again, good actions (convicting people of real, serious, past crimes) has negative consequences.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stop the good actions, by the way. It means we need to deal with the results of our actions.
Don't agree. I think there is more crime today. An inevitable side-effect of a less deferential society.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.
Anna Bob A Job will be on shortly to explain why
I was in London last week and was delighted to see a sign in the door of a barber's saying 'cash only'. Living where I do, cash is still accepted by all and sundry but reading PB would indicate it has been abolished in more advanced civilizations such as the Great Wen.
Unpaid VAT bill.
Perhaps. But it has always seemed to me that as long as there are income taxes, children, on-course bookies, working class widows on small pensions and small time drug dealers there will be a need for cash.
Not to mention takeaways with similar VAT related problems.
Last 'cash only' place I saw had a terminal tucked away under the counter in case people missed the sign on the door. It was an iZettle, too - so it's not like they were stuck on some sort of ancient RBS Streamline account with high fees.
HMRC could make a killing if they investigated some of these... a small team of mystery shoppers would pay for themselves thousands of times over.
Barber shop, cash only......they weren't Albanian by any chance?
"Turkish" barbers are the new hand car washes for laundering illicit monies.
The English barber who looks after my hair was discussing that very point with myself and a couple other customers a few days ago. Customers were rarely seen, we agreed, in the local ‘Turkish’ establishment.
Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
But contra to this I was in a Sainsburys a few weeks ago and the security people, three of them, absolutely did take down a shoplifter. They wrestled him to the floor and detained him. It happened right next to me. The perp (who was a big and motivated guy) actually knocked against me as he sought to escape. Bit scary. Thankfully I was ok and able to complete my purchase.
Did you use the confusion as an opportunity to forget to put it through the self scanner.....
JCB built and supplied equipment to Russia months after saying exports had stopped
Exclusive: Russian customs records suggest firm owned by major Tory donor kept supplying machines after ‘voluntary pause’
he British digger maker JCB, owned by the billionaire Bamford family, continued to build and supply equipment for the Russian market months after saying it had stopped exports because of Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, the Guardian can reveal.
Russian customs records show that JCB, whose owners are major donors to the Conservative party, continued to make new products available for Russian dealers well after 2 March 2022, when the company publicly stated that it had “voluntarily paused exports” to Russia.
The data raises questions about the accuracy of JCB’s statements on its business in Russia and relationship with its biggest dealer there, Moscow-based Lonmadi, and that company’s former owner, UK-based JVM group.
JCB has repeatedly said that it stopped exporting products to Russia and JVM companies after 2 March 2022 – less than a week after Putin sent troops into Ukraine.
JCB’s lawyers said: “Any collection of goods by a JVM company after 2 March 2022 was pursuant to contractual obligations already entered into and completed or substantially completed prior to that date.”
The company also denied any inconsistency or inaccuracy in its public statements.
I can never quite square the circle that crime is supposed to be falling and falling, but prison have been so overflowing for donkeys years that need policies to handle it, that at first there was policies like 50% discounts for early guilty pleas, people out on tag a lot earlier etc, and now we are having to release seriously dangerous ones early....and at the same time businesses complain that low level crimes like shoplifting aren't even enforced, car thefts and burglaries are basically never solved, carrying / using a knife doesn't get your the prison sentences that are on available etc.
The prison population today is twice what it was in 1970, despite the population only being 20% greater:
Don’t ask me to explain this one, because I’m not sure what the explanation is: Were people being held elsewhere? Did we just accept a level of violence in public that would be unacceptable today? I’ve no idea!
As to the current problems: the prison population hasn’t changed for roughly a decade, despite the population increase over that period, because we haven’t built any more prisons. This is at least partially due to the general planning deadlock that holds this country in its vice-like grip - IIRC the Home Office has tried to build them, but been stymied by local councils. But the current overcrowding is an inevitable consequence.
(Is there something about these stats that I’ve missed? Does anyone with relevant knowledge want to chip in? The change in incarceration rate over time since the 1940s to today seems unexpected to me.)
The answer is simple. There's more crime today.
No.
We are imprisoning more people for more things we have defined as crimes.
As @DavidL can tell you, business in the historic sex offences realm is brisk, for example. And they are getting long sentences when convicted.
Once again, good actions (convicting people of real, serious, past crimes) has negative consequences.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stop the good actions, by the way. It means we need to deal with the results of our actions.
Don't agree. I think there is more crime today. An inevitable side-effect of a less deferential society.
It does actually seem that less crime is committed nowadays. See for example:
WHO operatives seems the favoured loon theory on Twitter at the mo.
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
I thought you were joking about that, but it seems not. Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
Deputy Speaker of the Slovak Parliament already apportioning blame to the media and progressives, so you'd fear there might be an authoritarian crackdown following this.
Woke hitmen a startling new development.
‘Take out every fucker nor wearing a rainbow lanyard’
There was that film recently (?) about psychopathic progressives hunting Trump supporters for sport. I decided not to watch it in case I reacted inappropriately.
Comments
Previously, most of them would have been in Borstals, Approved schools, Community Homes, or Secure Training Centres. Borstals closed in the early 80s, YOIs became the default around 1990, I think.
(There are still Secure Training Centres and Secure Homes, but YOIs now account for about 80% of people in youth custody.)
New Křetínský bid creates headache for UK government amid growing scrutiny on foreign takeovers of critical infrastructure
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/15/royal-mail-owner-backs-35bn-takeover-offer-by-czech-billionaire
Especially when you don’t know whether what’s on the diskette is bleeding edge med tech or a slow burn virus….
Presumably that stands for World Hit Organisation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-69016687
If Labour get in and this deal is not approved and completed by then I could see them renationalising RM if this is the only way for it to stay privatised (even if Chuka is now working for JP Morgan and with Kretinsky a client to sell this deal to Starmer and Reynolds)
Yikes
Some lunatic theories floating around.
Reported that 'a suspect has been detained', so we might actually find out in due course.
Fingers crossed that he pulls through.
A quick search on Twitter after first reports brought up mostly accounts with similar comments on how coincidental it was that he had been shot after rejecting the WHO global pandemic accord - and then some linking it to stated refusal to send aid to Ukraine. Including Tate (WHO and Ukraine fingered) and Alex Jones (Ukraine).
As you say, motives are likely to become clear in due course.
Now partly this might be because I'm a 49 year old man and frequent much less the types of places where fights might break out. But the impression that I get is that those fights just aren't happening as much.
The best barometer of British society is the sitcom, and "Having a fight" was a common trope of sitcoms in the 70s and 80s. You look back at them now the regularity with which people were offered outside to sort things out is quite jarring; you look at it and think 'surely this is illegal and someone is going to get in trouble'.
And I remember the almanac of British Politics in 1994, and its discussion of 'designer violence' in towns like, I think, Aylesbury - basically people going out for a fight.
Notoriously, it has been suggested (by Malcolm Gladwell) that the change is due to the elmination of leaded petrol. It's probably an example of correlation <> causation, but I'd like to think it was true.
One thing that did die down, but is coming back, football violence. That is nowhere near what it was in the 80s, so much so that when we do see some now it is shocking. Where as in the 80s, that was a standard Saturday away day stuff of groups having punch ups in and around pubs.
Also we are seeing outbreaks of violence at venues that never suffered this in the past e.g. horse racing. The widespread use of coke is being blamed.
Don't know how true that is?
"Shocked to hear this awful news. All our thoughts are with Prime Minister Fico and his family."
My first reaction to this was quite uncharitable. How many minutes did I think Sunak would be dedicating to Fico's family? Not many.. But then, something like this probably lands differently for a Prime Minister than for the rest of us. He'll know it could be his family waiting to hear if surgery has saved him from the assassin's bullet.
More lifers following abolition of hanging in 1965
Longer sentences especially for violence; murder lengths have been rising rapidly in recent years
More concern for domestic violence and violence against women and girls (though much more needed)
Drugs and their effects
Huge numbers in prison who should be in secure psychiatric care
The large number of historic sex child offenders, most of which is a new category of offenders we mostly literally didn't recognise as existing in 1970.
We are imprisoning more people for more things we have defined as crimes.
As @DavidL can tell you, business in the historic sex offences realm is brisk, for example. And they are getting long sentences when convicted.
Once again, good actions (convicting people of real, serious, past crimes) has negative consequences.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stop the good actions, by the way. It means we need to deal with the results of our actions.
‘Take out every fucker nor wearing a rainbow lanyard’
The story I heard when I was in the civil service was Ken Clarke reckoned Cameron/Osborne wouldn't dare make big budget cuts and so delayed negotiations, overplayed his hand, resulting in a ~25% budget cut.
https://www.sentencingacademy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Sentencing-Trends-in-England-and-Wales-2002-2022.pdf
Remember the Ninja Morrismen of New Ankh? Who could do terrible things with a hanky?
It's official: the Netherlands is getting a far-right-led coalition government. The four rightwing parties, led by Geert Wilders' far-right PVV, have agreed a governing accord that sets out their policies, says Wilders. They still have to choose a prime minister (not Wilders)
Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.
The council, had encouraged the entry of “vertical drinking establishments” - which were, apparently, much more appealing to the Non Middle Class. A couple were located, so that at kicking out, the crowds of customers leaving collided with each other.
I and everyone else who didn’t find that amusing, retreated to Little Clarendon Street.
And, in my case, a certain pub on the mellifluously named street, Friars Entry - due to its customers consisting of bikers, metal heads, goths and genuine nutcases* the problematic never entered. Because the one rule in there was “No trouble within shouting distance of the pub”.
*there was one chap, known as Biz, who spent his entire life 20 seconds from his next fight. But never in That Pub.
Just what type of gsw do you think it would be a surprise to be in surgery for.
PS Yes, here is one piece of data from the excellent Prison Reform Trust:
"The minimum terms people on life sentences must spend in custody—known as tariffs—before they can be considered for release on licence are rising. The average tariff imposed for mandatory life sentences for murder rose from 12.5 years in 2003 to 20 years in 2020."
https://prisonreformtrust.org.uk/dramatic-rise-in-numbers-spending-10-years-or-more-in-prison/#:~:text=The minimum terms people on,to 20 years in 2020.
Speaking of fab films btw The Fall Guy is well worth the entrance price. Must see in a cinema on account of the crash bang wallops and actually, they seem to walk away smiling ruefully from all kinds of mishaps so perhaps Hollywood types are made of sterner stuff than us lot.
Or who, in Moscow, toward the Czar,
With the demurest of footfalls
Over the Kremlin's pavement, bright
With serpentine and syenite,
Steps, with five other generals,
That simultaneously take snuff,
For each to have pretext enough
To kerchiefwise unfurl his sash
Which, softness' self, is yet the stuff
To hold fast where a steel chain snaps,
And leave the grand white neck no gash?
Cash robberies replaced with fraud. Also you can get yourself £10k by snatching some phones for a few days or holding a few people who for their Rolexs.
The beer was always good - they cleaned the lines properly at the end of each night. Had a few free pints from the beer pushed out of the lines at the start…
The result is that prisons are filled with long term offenders, often old with a whole range of other problems. It’s a challenge to an underfunded system.
Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.
I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit. The runners just went out every day to CVS etc and walked out with the goods, which then got listed on online marketplaces by the end of the day.
That would be 3x as much as that now if it had kept up with inflation but I would be surprised if they even had what we had in 1985.
( And I mean in general, the branch I worked at is, of course, a bar. ).
Edit. Just realised that is actually nearly 40 years ago. Sigh.
"Turkish" barbers are the new hand car washes for laundering illicit monies.
To be honest, I went to a proper Turkish barbers a few years ago and made the mistake of saying short back and sides please....I came out with such little hair, I might as well have been bald. Although I have to say the shave was good although the cut throat razor and the burning your ear hair is a bit disconcerting.
- this is the crime, these are the priors, what do you think the sentence would be, and how long do you think he'll serve
People would wildly underestimate the numbers.
And the reason was simple: sentencing only makes the headlines when it is newsworthy. Therefore we tend to only see stories about [x] getting a very low sentence.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/outlines/shoplifting/
If they don't then it is a training/laziness/accomplice problem, not a legal one.
OnS vs AndyjS
HMRC could make a killing if they investigated some of these... a small team of mystery shoppers would pay for themselves thousands of times over.
NEW THREAD
New Thread
JCB’s lawyers said: “Any collection of goods by a JVM company after 2 March 2022 was pursuant to contractual obligations already entered into and completed or substantially completed prior to that date.”
The company also denied any inconsistency or inaccuracy in its public statements.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023
Note that these statistics are based on surveys of the general population and are therefore not affected by clear-up rates.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5167198/