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Will we see another defection today? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,733
edited May 15 in General
Will we see another defection today? – politicalbetting.com

Conservative MPs nervous about another potential defection tomorrow at PMQs, rightly or wrongly

Read the full story here

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  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,079
    1st
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,885
    Alok Sharma would be my suspect for a defection. He seems to have been alienated by the government reneging on climate change goals
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,281
    Why is there no Betfair 'next defection' market ?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043
    No defection today. Tomorrow in Essex.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,281
    Jimmy Carter’s grandson says he is ‘coming to the end’ after more than a year in hospice care
    https://thehill.com/homenews/4664417-jimmy-carter-grandson-says-he-is-coming-to-the-end-hospice-care/
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,857
    I very much doubt it.

    This is just nerves and a sign of demoralisation.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,766
    Nigelb said:

    Why is there no Betfair 'next defection' market ?

    Same reason there is no individual constituency markets on Betfair.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,766
    TimS said:

    No defection today. Tomorrow in Essex.

    Priti Patel? James Cleverly? Kemi Badenoch? HYUFD?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043
    I don’t think further Tory defections would have much effect now. The point has been made, and they badly misjudged things with Elphicke.

    The most impactful defection now would be a Westminster SNP MP.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635
    Nigelb said:

    Jimmy Carter’s grandson says he is ‘coming to the end’ after more than a year in hospice care
    https://thehill.com/homenews/4664417-jimmy-carter-grandson-says-he-is-coming-to-the-end-hospice-care/

    Given he was told he had about a year to live about nine years ago, he's demonstrated remarkable toughness.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154
    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635

    TimS said:

    No defection today. Tomorrow in Essex.

    Priti Patel? James Cleverly? Kemi Badenoch? HYUFD?
    Keir Starmer to wind up the 1st Essex Yeomanry and point them SNP-wards!
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,766
    TimS said:

    I don’t think further Tory defections would have much effect now. The point has been made, and they badly misjudged things with Elphicke.

    The most impactful defection now would be a Westminster SNP MP.

    Still bonkers to think Lisa Cameron defected from the SNP to the Tories.

    What a great advocate for the Union that was, I suspect more Scot Nats will reject the dark heart of Scottish Nationalism and embrace the civic and joyous Unionism.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,732

    TimS said:

    No defection today. Tomorrow in Essex.

    Priti Patel? James Cleverly? Kemi Badenoch? HYUFD?
    Boring Essex answer might be Will Quince in Colchester. Already standing down.

    (Random thought: how many rounds of PMQs left? Say it's 30 weeks until Parliament self-destructs, quite a few of those are various recesses.)
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043
    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043

    TimS said:

    No defection today. Tomorrow in Essex.

    Priti Patel? James Cleverly? Kemi Badenoch? HYUFD?
    Boring Essex answer might be Will Quince in Colchester. Already standing down.

    (Random thought: how many rounds of PMQs left? Say it's 30 weeks until Parliament self-destructs, quite a few of those are various recesses.)
    Brexiteer though.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,877
    edited May 15
    Halfon would be my best guess:

    Standing down, in a target seat, to the left side of Toryism and independent minded on some issues, can provide a platform for education policy from his select committee work. Some of these elements present with Elphicke too

    It wouldn't be free of problems, but neither would it quite confound in the way last week did.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    edited May 15
    Sir Keir Starmer lining up Baroness Casey for ministerial role
    The Labour leader is keen to find a position for crossbench peer who wrote a damning report on the Metropolitan Police

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sir-keir-starmer-lining-up-baroness-casey-labour-role-qnphdg680 (£££)

    Not quite a defection but...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,281
    edited May 15
    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    You then missed her first question to the Home Office minister just now about how it was that a couple of BBC journalists "with virtually no resources", rather than the National Crime Agency, were responsible for the recent arrest of a top people smuggler.
    ....Anonymous (actually not, but I can't be bothered to recall his name) minister then starts reciting his line about the resources they're directing to the problem.

    Also, it's now almost summer. We're entering the news deadzone.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,543
    No defections today. The last one went down like a pair of lead underpants.

    Will Rishi double down on his "Starmer the dangerous Soviet traitor" line? It seemed to work very well on Monday.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    It feels like they parachute in someone to run things who has not had any interest in the programme before but it in the system to be promoted to great things and they walk in and say “oh no this just isn’t us, we need to change this and this and this so it’s like this”.

    They are incapable of thinking, “actually this has a long and loyal following so something must work, let’s make sure tape standards are high and it will continue to work well.”

    Today has developed some weird music obsession especially, latest is their bee in bonnet over last few months re the COOP arena in Manchester - it’s a music venue - that’s all - but it was getting almost daily coverage and today we get to look forward to spa section later before 9 with clips of Elbow playing their song we hear a billion times a year and an interview with Guy Garvey. We have endless sections on Beyoncé and Taylor Swift when they release a new album, even one where some uni prof was talking about Beyoncé claiming back country music for black people - who knew that European folk music had no input to country.

    Then there was their obsession with “Free Brittney”. How’s that campaign worked for Brittney Spears.

    Arseholes.
  • Options
    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,782
    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Suggest you try Times Radio for a change. No woke obsessions, no personal hard luck stories, quite a lot of political information and comment.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,281
    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting..

    My point related specifically to their US coverage, which has been fairly dire as long as I can remember.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,599
    :lol: the second tweet

    Wonder how much of this speculation is Tory- driven. Will be less of a big story (unless someone high profile) of it does happen and a bit of a let down if it doesn't.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    The last thread header compared Sunak to Truss. Presumably this was covered in that thread but in case not, it was confusion and anger over government whips and the on/off confidence vote that brought down Truss, and there were shades of that in reports about handling amendments to banning MPs from parliament in the face of alleged sexual misconduct.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,599
    TimS said:

    I don’t think further Tory defections would have much effect now. The point has been made, and they badly misjudged things with Elphicke.

    The most impactful defection now would be a Westminster SNP MP.

    Or a lib dem :open_mouth:
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting..

    My point related specifically to their US coverage, which has been fairly dire as long as I can remember.
    You are correct and also correct that having Justin Webb front it doesn’t help - surely they have in the ranks of BBC corespondents someone with deep knowledge of the US.
  • Options
    AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 195

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Suggest you try Times Radio for a change. No woke obsessions, no personal hard luck stories, quite a lot of political information and comment.
    The "Exit Interviews" done by Matt Chorley on Times Radio are very interesting - the Monday one, with Charles (?) Timpson, outgoing MP for Eddisbury, was a first class interview for anyone interested in British politics. Quite thought-provoking. I can't say I had really heard of the man since the Crewe by-election in 2008, but I came away with a fair amount of admiration for the man.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,562
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    It feels like they parachute in someone to run things who has not had any interest in the programme before but it in the system to be promoted to great things and they walk in and say “oh no this just isn’t us, we need to change this and this and this so it’s like this”.

    They are incapable of thinking, “actually this has a long and loyal following so something must work, let’s make sure tape standards are high and it will continue to work well.”

    Today has developed some weird music obsession especially, latest is their bee in bonnet over last few months re the COOP arena in Manchester - it’s a music venue - that’s all - but it was getting almost daily coverage and today we get to look forward to spa section later before 9 with clips of Elbow playing their song we hear a billion times a year and an interview with Guy Garvey. We have endless sections on Beyoncé and Taylor Swift when they release a new album, even one where some uni prof was talking about Beyoncé claiming back country music for black people - who knew that European folk music had no input to country.

    Then there was their obsession with “Free Brittney”. How’s that campaign worked for Brittney Spears.

    Arseholes.
    The BBC’s Taylor Swift obsession in particular screams to me of some high-ups wringing their hands and saying we must DO something to appeal to young people. In fact the BBC has generally lost its way when it has done this. People interested in celebrity gossip have their own sources - much better than the BBC - to read up on what Taylor Swift ate for breakfast.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,315

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    It feels like they parachute in someone to run things who has not had any interest in the programme before but it in the system to be promoted to great things and they walk in and say “oh no this just isn’t us, we need to change this and this and this so it’s like this”.

    They are incapable of thinking, “actually this has a long and loyal following so something must work, let’s make sure tape standards are high and it will continue to work well.”

    Today has developed some weird music obsession especially, latest is their bee in bonnet over last few months re the COOP arena in Manchester - it’s a music venue - that’s all - but it was getting almost daily coverage and today we get to look forward to spa section later before 9 with clips of Elbow playing their song we hear a billion times a year and an interview with Guy Garvey. We have endless sections on Beyoncé and Taylor Swift when they release a new album, even one where some uni prof was talking about Beyoncé claiming back country music for black people - who knew that European folk music had no input to country.

    Then there was their obsession with “Free Brittney”. How’s that campaign worked for Brittney Spears.

    Arseholes.
    There is a good broken Britain story within the Coop Arena saga. Big bit of ceiling fell down 15 munutes before the crowd was about to let in.

    No public body willing to inspect it, apparently its not the job of the Health and Safety Executive and the City Council say they trust the documents from the building management. Really?
    The fact that neither the HSE or the council deemed to investigate what happened is very surprising and saddening. It is literally ignoring the learning lessons from a near miss; knowledge that could prove valuable on other construction jobs.

    A very poor show.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,315
    Surely there is diminishing returns the more people who defect. Elphicke got a load of press; the fifth or sixth person might be less advantageous newswise to Labour, and less damaging to the Tories.

    So if you're going to jump, do it soon. Or, as I suspect, will there be multiple at the same time?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,543
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    Emma Barnett is quintessentially the impartial balance presenter. So if there is a story about say a Government breach of GDPR over names and addresses of serving military being posted on TikTok, she would have to remind us of the example during the Blair Government years when some Naval Attaché left his briefcase on the Clapham Omnibus.

    She was dreadful on Newsnight. She is dreadful on Today.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948

    TimS said:

    No defection today. Tomorrow in Essex.

    Priti Patel? James Cleverly? Kemi Badenoch? HYUFD?
    Boring Essex answer might be Will Quince in Colchester. Already standing down.

    (Random thought: how many rounds of PMQs left? Say it's 30 weeks until Parliament self-destructs, quite a few of those are various recesses.)
    Alan Sugar must be a reasonable chance?

    Was Labour, then Tory, then...

    And we can switch back to Tories complaining about him being on the apprentice as political bias as they were back in the day, instead of Labour complaining about him being on the apprentice as political bias.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    It feels like they parachute in someone to run things who has not had any interest in the programme before but it in the system to be promoted to great things and they walk in and say “oh no this just isn’t us, we need to change this and this and this so it’s like this”.

    They are incapable of thinking, “actually this has a long and loyal following so something must work, let’s make sure tape standards are high and it will continue to work well.”

    Today has developed some weird music obsession especially, latest is their bee in bonnet over last few months re the COOP arena in Manchester - it’s a music venue - that’s all - but it was getting almost daily coverage and today we get to look forward to spa section later before 9 with clips of Elbow playing their song we hear a billion times a year and an interview with Guy Garvey. We have endless sections on Beyoncé and Taylor Swift when they release a new album, even one where some uni prof was talking about Beyoncé claiming back country music for black people - who knew that European folk music had no input to country.

    Then there was their obsession with “Free Brittney”. How’s that campaign worked for Brittney Spears.

    Arseholes.
    There is a good broken Britain story within the Coop Arena saga. Big bit of ceiling fell down 15 munutes before the crowd was about to let in.

    No public body willing to inspect it, apparently its not the job of the Health and Safety Executive and the City Council say they trust the documents from the building management. Really?
    You are absolutely right, unfortunately this angle hasn’t been the story for Today, it’s been about music acts having to cancel or reschedule and unhappy fans.

    There are four hundred Radio 1 channels, Radio 2, Radio 6, hundreds of BBC music podcasts where they can talk about music and music fans in an excited way to fill time until they get excited and talk non-stop about Glastonbury. They don’t need to change every station into a pop culture station.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,317

    Surely there is diminishing returns the more people who defect. Elphicke got a load of press; the fifth or sixth person might be less advantageous newswise to Labour, and less damaging to the Tories.

    So if you're going to jump, do it soon. Or, as I suspect, will there be multiple at the same time?

    The more speeches Richi gives the more people defect...

    The gift that keeps on giving
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,593
    edited May 15
    Morning all. Re the Essex thing, its a speech on economics, features a 'special guest' that even the shadow cabinet will not know till today and has been in planning for a long while. If its a defection its not an also ran, more like a Phil Hammond type character
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,625

    TimS said:

    No defection today. Tomorrow in Essex.

    Priti Patel? James Cleverly? Kemi Badenoch? HYUFD?
    Boring Essex answer might be Will Quince in Colchester. Already standing down.

    (Random thought: how many rounds of PMQs left? Say it's 30 weeks until Parliament self-destructs, quite a few of those are various recesses.)
    Alan Sugar must be a reasonable chance?

    Was Labour, then Tory, then...

    And we can switch back to Tories complaining about him being on the apprentice as political bias as they were back in the day, instead of Labour complaining about him being on the apprentice as political bias.
    At least he can't run for President.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,733
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jimmy Carter’s grandson says he is ‘coming to the end’ after more than a year in hospice care
    https://thehill.com/homenews/4664417-jimmy-carter-grandson-says-he-is-coming-to-the-end-hospice-care/

    Given he was told he had about a year to live about nine years ago, he's demonstrated remarkable toughness.
    I'm still convinced he should've ran in 2020 and beaten Trump.
    Heck, he might not even needed to have picked a good VP. He might still live to November (doubt it)!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,610
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    It hasn’t yet started taking calls all day from taxi drivers and white van people, tbf
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,543
    Scott_xP said:

    Will Rishi double down on his "Starmer the dangerous Soviet traitor" line? It seemed to work very well on Monday.

    Brexit was a huge bet against the idea that geography mattered to economic and security policy in the 21st century. Geography won.

    Sunak has nothing meaningful to say about that problem. He can only list menaces beyond Britain’s borders and accuse Keir Starmer of lacking the gumption to take them on. The charge has two elements. First, Labour still harbours the Nato-sceptic, pacifist impulses that shaped Jeremy Corbyn’s worldview. Second, the opposition won’t mimic Conservative pledges on defence spending.

    The reality is that Starmer has purged the Corbynite left from Labour with a ruthlessness that Sunak has failed to deploy against cranks and maniacs on the right. Naming former leaders who should never have been allowed near Downing Street is hardly comfortable territory for the party of Liz Truss.

    As for defence spending, the real difference between Labour and the Tories is that the latter are relaxed about making up big numbers because they don’t expect to have to find the money after an election.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/15/rishi-sunak-world-dangerous-election-tories-labour
    I was chastened on PB ast night because I am not allowed to use a Guardian (or Rusbridger) defence, because the Guardian is a left leaning partisan instrument.

    Please stick to the authorised PB sources, the Daily Mail, Guido and GBNews.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,593
    Starmer might equally wait a bit given the reaction last week if he has any more lined up
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,318
    edited May 15

    TimS said:

    No defection today. Tomorrow in Essex.

    Priti Patel? James Cleverly? Kemi Badenoch? HYUFD?
    Boring Essex answer might be Will Quince in Colchester. Already standing down.

    (Random thought: how many rounds of PMQs left? Say it's 30 weeks until Parliament self-destructs, quite a few of those are various recesses.)
    Alan Sugar must be a reasonable chance?

    Was Labour, then Tory, then...

    And we can switch back to Tories complaining about him being on the apprentice as political bias as they were back in the day, instead of Labour complaining about him being on the apprentice as political bias.
    Lord Sugar and Sir Rod Stewart are the big Essex celebrities who backed Thatcher and Major in 1992, switched to Blair and have been Conservative again since Cameron (although Sugar was also close to Brown) ie exactly the type of
    swing voters Starmer has to win.

    Essex is also traditionally a swing county full of marginal seats, albeit it has become less so and more Conservative since Brexit
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,593
    Essex thing may equally be a big business figure, especially a Tory donor
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    AI controversy

    Thank you @Variety for breaking the story and thank you everyone for your support. 💋
    Steve Marriott’s Children and Bandmates Fight to Stop AI-Generated Recordings of Small Faces/ Humble Pie Singer’s Vocals

    Read here>>


    https://x.com/molliemarriott/status/1788818900081119403?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043

    Surely there is diminishing returns the more people who defect. Elphicke got a load of press; the fifth or sixth person might be less advantageous newswise to Labour, and less damaging to the Tories.

    So if you're going to jump, do it soon. Or, as I suspect, will there be multiple at the same time?

    Same happened to the Lib Dems before the last election. By the time the 4th or 5th new joiner came along it was no longer news. Hence why an SNP defection would have much more impact (but also highly unlikely as it would be much more difficult, both for Labour to pull off and for the individual concerned).
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 15
    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Options
    megasaurmegasaur Posts: 270
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    It feels like they parachute in someone to run things who has not had any interest in the programme before but it in the system to be promoted to great things and they walk in and say “oh no this just isn’t us, we need to change this and this and this so it’s like this”.

    They are incapable of thinking, “actually this has a long and loyal following so something must work, let’s make sure tape standards are high and it will continue to work well.”

    Today has developed some weird music obsession especially, latest is their bee in bonnet over last few months re the COOP arena in Manchester - it’s a music venue - that’s all - but it was getting almost daily coverage and today we get to look forward to spa section later before 9 with clips of Elbow playing their song we hear a billion times a year and an interview with Guy Garvey. We have endless sections on Beyoncé and Taylor Swift when they release a new album, even one where some uni prof was talking about Beyoncé claiming back country music for black people - who knew that European folk music had no input to country.

    Then there was their obsession with “Free Brittney”. How’s that campaign worked for Brittney Spears.

    Arseholes.
    There is a good broken Britain story within the Coop Arena saga. Big bit of ceiling fell down 15 munutes before the crowd was about to let in.

    No public body willing to inspect it, apparently its not the job of the Health and Safety Executive and the City Council say they trust the documents from the building management. Really?
    You are absolutely right, unfortunately this angle hasn’t been the story for Today, it’s been about music acts having to cancel or reschedule and unhappy fans.

    There are four hundred Radio 1 channels, Radio 2, Radio 6, hundreds of BBC music podcasts where they can talk about music and music fans in an excited way to fill time until they get excited and talk non-stop about Glastonbury. They don’t need to change every station into a pop culture station.
    I have 2 tickets for the Eagles on June 1 and no inclination to use them now Steely Dan have dropped out as support. Hoping the roof falls in again.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043

    Morning all. Re the Essex thing, its a speech on economics, features a 'special guest' that even the shadow cabinet will not know till today and has been in planning for a long while. If its a defection its not an also ran, more like a Phil Hammond type character

    Trouble is the PLP is now primed to react badly to new Tory defections. The Elphicke saga created muscle memory, meaning their reflexive reaction to any new defection will be negative and it will take a lot to change that. Absent Elphicke they could have managed a couple more.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043
    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,317

    I was chastened on PB ast night because I am not allowed to use a Guardian (or Rusbridger) defence, because the Guardian is a left leaning partisan instrument.

    Please stick to the authorised PB sources, the Daily Mail, Guido and GBNews.

    Does the FT count?

    https://x.com/Mij_Europe/status/1790639066519675266
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,625
    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,181
    edited May 15

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    Gay marriage, but that was down to such a different regime it might as well be another party.

    The covid vaccines were down to the researchers, and HMG blotted its copybook there by shutting down the much-touted emergency vaccine place (a bit like selling off a Royal Ordnance Factory in 1938).
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,625
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    Defence reversals are an easy one. The world has changed unbelievably since that 2016 vote.

    We have no more doubts that effectively we are already at war with Russia. Might be a cold war technically but it is warming quickly.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154
    Hooray, Emma Barnet’s playlist to help her on early mornings. Truly the news we need.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    Womens sport.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,625
    megasaur said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    It feels like they parachute in someone to run things who has not had any interest in the programme before but it in the system to be promoted to great things and they walk in and say “oh no this just isn’t us, we need to change this and this and this so it’s like this”.

    They are incapable of thinking, “actually this has a long and loyal following so something must work, let’s make sure tape standards are high and it will continue to work well.”

    Today has developed some weird music obsession especially, latest is their bee in bonnet over last few months re the COOP arena in Manchester - it’s a music venue - that’s all - but it was getting almost daily coverage and today we get to look forward to spa section later before 9 with clips of Elbow playing their song we hear a billion times a year and an interview with Guy Garvey. We have endless sections on Beyoncé and Taylor Swift when they release a new album, even one where some uni prof was talking about Beyoncé claiming back country music for black people - who knew that European folk music had no input to country.

    Then there was their obsession with “Free Brittney”. How’s that campaign worked for Brittney Spears.

    Arseholes.
    There is a good broken Britain story within the Coop Arena saga. Big bit of ceiling fell down 15 munutes before the crowd was about to let in.

    No public body willing to inspect it, apparently its not the job of the Health and Safety Executive and the City Council say they trust the documents from the building management. Really?
    You are absolutely right, unfortunately this angle hasn’t been the story for Today, it’s been about music acts having to cancel or reschedule and unhappy fans.

    There are four hundred Radio 1 channels, Radio 2, Radio 6, hundreds of BBC music podcasts where they can talk about music and music fans in an excited way to fill time until they get excited and talk non-stop about Glastonbury. They don’t need to change every station into a pop culture station.
    I have 2 tickets for the Eagles on June 1 and no inclination to use them now Steely Dan have dropped out as support. Hoping the roof falls in again.
    Hell has frozen over again then?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,573
    Cicero said:

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting..

    My point related specifically to their US coverage, which has been fairly dire as long as I can remember.
    You are correct and also correct that having Justin Webb front it doesn’t help - surely they have in the ranks of BBC corespondents someone with deep knowledge of the US.
    But they are not "family".

    The quality of BBC reporting has objectively been falling for sometime and Today. like Newsnight on TV, is failing to compete. The BBC seems to think that being serious is being boring, and that details do not matter to the story. They are no longer a go-to media source, and that is potentially dangerous, as well as being sad.
    The best program on current affairs on the BBC these days is often Evan Davies on the PM program. When you hear how much news and informed comment is crammed into that hour it makes you despair about Today and what once was.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,562

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    Yes. We are generally a kinder and more open minded society, despite the culture war posturing on both sides. How much you can lay at the governments door on that, or just general trends in Western society, is up for debate.
  • Options
    megasaurmegasaur Posts: 270

    megasaur said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Yes, Today is turning into LBC. Very frustrating.
    It feels like they parachute in someone to run things who has not had any interest in the programme before but it in the system to be promoted to great things and they walk in and say “oh no this just isn’t us, we need to change this and this and this so it’s like this”.

    They are incapable of thinking, “actually this has a long and loyal following so something must work, let’s make sure tape standards are high and it will continue to work well.”

    Today has developed some weird music obsession especially, latest is their bee in bonnet over last few months re the COOP arena in Manchester - it’s a music venue - that’s all - but it was getting almost daily coverage and today we get to look forward to spa section later before 9 with clips of Elbow playing their song we hear a billion times a year and an interview with Guy Garvey. We have endless sections on Beyoncé and Taylor Swift when they release a new album, even one where some uni prof was talking about Beyoncé claiming back country music for black people - who knew that European folk music had no input to country.

    Then there was their obsession with “Free Brittney”. How’s that campaign worked for Brittney Spears.

    Arseholes.
    There is a good broken Britain story within the Coop Arena saga. Big bit of ceiling fell down 15 munutes before the crowd was about to let in.

    No public body willing to inspect it, apparently its not the job of the Health and Safety Executive and the City Council say they trust the documents from the building management. Really?
    You are absolutely right, unfortunately this angle hasn’t been the story for Today, it’s been about music acts having to cancel or reschedule and unhappy fans.

    There are four hundred Radio 1 channels, Radio 2, Radio 6, hundreds of BBC music podcasts where they can talk about music and music fans in an excited way to fill time until they get excited and talk non-stop about Glastonbury. They don’t need to change every station into a pop culture station.
    I have 2 tickets for the Eagles on June 1 and no inclination to use them now Steely Dan have dropped out as support. Hoping the roof falls in again.
    Hell has frozen over again then?
    Exactly.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    Yes. We are generally a kinder and more open minded society, despite the culture war posturing on both sides. How much you can lay at the governments door on that, or just general trends in Western society, is up for debate.
    In person that is probably true. Far more fractious in public though. A weird combination.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,593
    If 'Essex' equals 'Alan Sugar' I hope they have the decency to do something utterly sad and tragic like get him to say 'it's time to tell this clapped out Tory government..... you're fired'
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    What’s that got to do with it?
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,732

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    Depends on your view of Brexit.

    Is it the great defining achievement of this political generation, that will set the UK up for a golden century? Or is it an awkward bit of flatulence that only persists now out of embarrassment?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    Defence reversals are an easy one. The world has changed unbelievably since that 2016 vote.

    We have no more doubts that effectively we are already at war with Russia. Might be a cold war technically but it is warming quickly.
    It wasn’t a matter of conscience and principle then. Or he doesn’t have them anymore
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,181

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    The telecomms industry's profits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/15/call-waiting-times-at-hmrc-rise-350-in-five-years-says-nao-report

    'The annual total amount of time taxpayers spent on the phone waiting to speak to a HM Revenue and Customs adviser has more than doubled to the equivalent of almost 800 years, according to a report by Whitehall’s spending watchdog.

    The National Audit Office (NAO) found that average call waiting times at HMRC have soared by more than 350% in five years, with increasing numbers of people not getting through in the first place or having their calls terminated, according to an official report that says the public is being “let down”.'
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154
    DavidL said:

    Cicero said:

    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting..

    My point related specifically to their US coverage, which has been fairly dire as long as I can remember.
    You are correct and also correct that having Justin Webb front it doesn’t help - surely they have in the ranks of BBC corespondents someone with deep knowledge of the US.
    But they are not "family".

    The quality of BBC reporting has objectively been falling for sometime and Today. like Newsnight on TV, is failing to compete. The BBC seems to think that being serious is being boring, and that details do not matter to the story. They are no longer a go-to media source, and that is potentially dangerous, as well as being sad.
    The best program on current affairs on the BBC these days is often Evan Davies on the PM program. When you hear how much news and informed comment is crammed into that hour it makes you despair about Today and what once was.
    There is a current affairs programme on World Service on Sunday mornings which is good - called Weekend - where the presenter has a couple of guests through the show who are interesting and knowledgeable and they have reports and then discuss the reports and stories.

    Good in depth analysis but also a global slant rather than Today’s “now, whats happening in the US followed by a quick local section covering the UK”.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,593
    Here's a curve ball (for fun). There is a defection today but it's Burgon or Sultana joining Galloway in protest at Elphicke/Gaza etc
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,562
    edited May 15
    I would also say the changes to personal taxation have been, by and large, a success, particularly the raising of the personal allowance, though I appreciate that was a shameless nabbing of LD policy.

    In fact; I think you should really look at the government in two phases - 2010-2016 and 2016-2024. The former was, I think, a fundamentally competent government even if you disagreed on policy aims and objectives. It’s been an absolute shambles since.

    TMay really tried, I think, but she had an impossible task with the Brexit debacle and the rot started to set in. Then everything fell apart once Boris took over.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948
    Carnyx said:

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    The telecomms industry's profits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/15/call-waiting-times-at-hmrc-rise-350-in-five-years-says-nao-report

    'The annual total amount of time taxpayers spent on the phone waiting to speak to a HM Revenue and Customs adviser has more than doubled to the equivalent of almost 800 years, according to a report by Whitehall’s spending watchdog.

    The National Audit Office (NAO) found that average call waiting times at HMRC have soared by more than 350% in five years, with increasing numbers of people not getting through in the first place or having their calls terminated, according to an official report that says the public is being “let down”.'
    If you close the phone down line completely you could reduce the wait time considerably. In case any HMRC head honchos are reading Noneoftheabove consultancy inc can offer such advice for a bargain price of £4m.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,980
    edited May 15
    FPT

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS asked: It's interesting that this overdose problem seems to have happened so much more seriously in the United States than any other western country. It does exist in Canada, UK, Australia, etc, but on a much smaller scale than in the USA. Why is that?"

    Andy, I can only offer you speculations, since I don't have details on what other nations did. Family and community decline may have advanced further in the US, than in other western nations. Other nations did not have leaders who admitted/boasted about their drug use as young men. Other nations did not have the Sacklers. Other nations were not the pinrcipal target of the ChiComs. The US has more money to spend on recreation, including drugs. And I could add others.

    But, let me repeat, those are just speculations. You might get some insights by looking at the variations within the US, especially between states like Texas and California.

    Thanks for the reply.
    Something missed in Sackler story so far - advertising and profit for the doctors.

    Something that surprises Americans outside the US is the *lack* of medical advertising. We get a few ads for Bupa - they get an incessant storm of medical advertising. Many of the ads are for particular drugs.

    Doctors were paid to prescribe - perhaps the key action in this. Everyone in the chain made a profit on every pill rolled.
    I think a further cause causing crank-remedies and advertised alternatives will nb the prohibitive cost of real medical products and services. If it costs 10% as much, snake oil becomes attractive,

    Following US channels on the Trump case, US advertising lacks at least firewalls.

    1 - Unevidenced medical claims made for non-medical products.

    Types of products I have noticed include weirdness such as silveri-infused bedsheets, "flavoured air" products to replace vaping, manuka honey, various sorts of product to replace cocoa at bedtime, and so on. They are mainly subscriptions and mainly cost several hundred dollars per annum or more.

    Here medical claims are regulated. They are often bent - eg I once had a Herbalife franchisee try to sell me the benefits of his range as very beneficial to treating Type I diabetes.

    The closest we have in the UK is probably "Dettol kills 99% of germs dead".

    2 - Editorial / advertising divide.

    Product advertisers and Youtube podcast sponsors reading out adverts for sponsors, including vowing
    that they make extensive use of each and every product personally.

    Probably the closest UK equivalent to this one is influencers promoting products without admitting they are being paid, about which we have had scandals.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,949
    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    Defence reversals are an easy one. The world has changed unbelievably since that 2016 vote.

    We have no more doubts that effectively we are already at war with Russia. Might be a cold war technically but it is warming quickly.
    It wasn’t a matter of conscience and principle then. Or he doesn’t have them anymore
    Conscience and principles can change in the face of facts.

    Unilateral Nuclear Disarmament is immoral, anyway.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,973
    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    half a like. Anything that starts 'I really like Emma Barnett' can't get a whole one.

    But an enjoyable rant.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,098

    I would also say the changes to personal taxation have been, by and large, a success, particularly the raising of the personal allowance, though I appreciate that was a shameless nabbing of LD policy.

    In fact; I think you should really look at the government in two phases - 2010-2016 and 2016-2024. The former was, I think, a fundamentally competent government even if you disagreed on policy aims and objectives. It’s been an absolute shambles since.

    I do wonder if a Labour/Lib Dem coalition would be the optimal outcome for the country come Jan 2024. A massive Labour majority would see Starmer spending too much time fending off the complacent Left, while a coalition would moderate everything nicely.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948

    Here's a curve ball (for fun). There is a defection today but it's Burgon or Sultana joining Galloway in protest at Elphicke/Gaza etc

    Thanks for raisin that possibility.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,181

    Here's a curve ball (for fun). There is a defection today but it's Burgon or Sultana joining Galloway in protest at Elphicke/Gaza etc

    Thanks for raisin that possibility.
    And do keep us currant, please.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,980
    FPT because @TSE did not get out of bed early enough :smile: .

    On Mr Trump, a comparison between senior Elected Republican Congressmen turning out to help interfere with the Criminal Justice system (one admitting he is Trump's 'surrogate', and the three Senior Republican politicians who went to the White House in 1974 to tell Richard Nixon he faced impeachment.

    Nixon resigned the next day.

    https://youtu.be/y6yPkzS1fuM?t=45
    (Glenn Kirchner - 7 minutes) A review of the article linked below.

    https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_gop-unlikely-reprise-role-it-played-nixons-1974-exit/6177114.html

  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948

    I would also say the changes to personal taxation have been, by and large, a success, particularly the raising of the personal allowance, though I appreciate that was a shameless nabbing of LD policy.

    In fact; I think you should really look at the government in two phases - 2010-2016 and 2016-2024. The former was, I think, a fundamentally competent government even if you disagreed on policy aims and objectives. It’s been an absolute shambles since.

    TMay really tried, I think, but she had an impossible task with the Brexit debacle and the rot started to set in. Then everything fell apart once Boris took over.

    I would split out 2010-2016 into two halves, the first they were on the right track and doing it well, the second half they were still obsessed with austerity, by then the wrong path, but doing what they intended well, it just wasn't what the country needed.

    Agree that 2016 is the flip point for competency regardless of preferred direction.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,740
    boulay said:

    @NigelB and @TimS had made a couple of points on last thread about the standard of the BbC reporting and I didn’t see them as was having a massive rant about the Today programme which got hit by the curse of the new thread. I think the rant fits in with a lack of rigour in the BBC’s concept of political journalism now.

    Rant below - sorry for length.

    I’ve moaned about it a lot but I keep going back to the Today Programme because it’s a habit of 30 years but this morning has absolutely killed me. I really like Emma Barnett as a presenter and interviewer. I like Amol Rajan when he isn’t constantly dropping being a father into every conversation.

    I was looking forward to it being not as good as I remember it but still a good start to the day, hoping somehow they would get a change of editor who wouldn’t have some f-ing teenage need for music segments every day to show how switched on they are on their magazine programme and instead get a new editor who would return it to a serious news programme with good longer form interviews about politics and events.

    What do we get today, a five minute segment on Blinken singing a Neil Young song in Ukraine and then me thinking I had entered some time warp and was catching an older episode of Women’s Hour where Emma Barnett is reading out listeners comments on the new sex education rules.

    Fuck off Today Editor. If people want pointless sections on music then they have loads of BBC stations to listen to. If they want to hear the public’s views from their tweets and texts on a relatively minor story then there is Radio 5. Why is there this absolutely pointless need to change everything and fuck up things that work perfectly well. All that is happening is Today is going to end up a mirror of R5 with more southern accents.

    Farming Today had a really good interview this morning with Sunak and people involved in Food to Fork this morning that knocked any political commentary on Today into a cocked hat which says it all really.

    Completely agree, and I have been listening to this since Jack de Manio days. I am often switching off with sheer boredom. The obsession with bad music is extraordinary. Half of their material is more suited to a daytime magazine style programme.

    Emma Barnett needs to be given a chance, but this morning some of her questions were long speeches. The art of the interview is in the quality and incisiveness of the questions.

    Ask a simple question: When last did this 3 hour daily programme give a serious update from informed experts/expert journalists on the military situation in Sudan and this war is developing?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    The Today programme seems a bit more personable......
  • Options
    Doogle1941Doogle1941 Posts: 14
    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    Defence reversals are an easy one. The world has changed unbelievably since that 2016 vote.

    We have no more doubts that effectively we are already at war with Russia. Might be a cold war technically but it is warming quickly.
    Another outstanding piece by Anne Applebaum, one of my favourite journalists, about how autocracies have identified the promulgation of the rule of law, independent judgment, human rights and freedom of speech as dangerous ideas that need to be undermined not only in their own countries but in ours:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/china-russia-republican-party-relations/678271/?utm_medium=cr&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=05_10_2024_writers_note_anne_applebaum_june_cover_actives_large_subject_line_10_10_80_winner&utm_content=Final&utm_term=ALL+Active+Subscribers+(Stripe+CDS+iTunes)

    Really quite a troubling piece.
    What is the real purpose of the u.s. involvement in Ukraine ? Is it a coincidence that several senior democrats had corrupt ties over there prior to the war ? Why were the u.s. running biolabs on ukr soil that Nuland admitted to ? Why has the west no interest in negotiating peace ?
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,740
    boulay said:

    Hooray, Emma Barnet’s playlist to help her on early mornings. Truly the news we need.

    Dismal.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,471
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,318
    Eabhal said:

    I would also say the changes to personal taxation have been, by and large, a success, particularly the raising of the personal allowance, though I appreciate that was a shameless nabbing of LD policy.

    In fact; I think you should really look at the government in two phases - 2010-2016 and 2016-2024. The former was, I think, a fundamentally competent government even if you disagreed on policy aims and objectives. It’s been an absolute shambles since.

    I do wonder if a Labour/Lib Dem coalition would be the optimal outcome for the country come Jan 2024. A massive Labour majority would see Starmer spending too much time fending off the complacent Left, while a coalition would moderate everything nicely.
    I suspect over the course of the campaign the poll gap will narrow, normally most elections see a swing back to the incumbent governing party by polling day.

    Remember Cameron had almost as big a poll lead over Brown as Starmer has over Sunak now six months before election day. Though I suspect Labour gains from the SNP in Scotland would give it enough seats for an overall majority in the UK even if in England alone Labour does not have a majority without LD seats too
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043
    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    Defence reversals are an easy one. The world has changed unbelievably since that 2016 vote.

    We have no more doubts that effectively we are already at war with Russia. Might be a cold war technically but it is warming quickly.
    It wasn’t a matter of conscience and principle then. Or he doesn’t have them anymore
    You present this all as a kind of gotcha, that will bring the edifice of Labour fakery crashing down. But we have two realistic options for a government in this country with its ridiculous FPTP system: Labour or Tory.

    If your dreams were to come true and the electorate saw the Labour house of cards for what it is and brought it crashing down, then the upshot would be a Tory government.

    This Tory government have changed their mind on just about every serious policy topic going, from tax and spend to Brexit to net zero to the importance of infrastructure spending. That’s your alternative choice. That’s FPTP.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,181

    Carnyx said:

    Has any government, given a decade and a half in office, ever squandered its opportunity quite so drastically and deliberately? Is there one area of life in the UK where it can honestly and objectively be said that something – anything – has improved since 2010?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/rishi-speech-changes-nothing-tories-are-still-doomed/


    It's a good question. Is there anything? Surely there must be something.

    The telecomms industry's profits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/may/15/call-waiting-times-at-hmrc-rise-350-in-five-years-says-nao-report

    'The annual total amount of time taxpayers spent on the phone waiting to speak to a HM Revenue and Customs adviser has more than doubled to the equivalent of almost 800 years, according to a report by Whitehall’s spending watchdog.

    The National Audit Office (NAO) found that average call waiting times at HMRC have soared by more than 350% in five years, with increasing numbers of people not getting through in the first place or having their calls terminated, according to an official report that says the public is being “let down”.'
    If you close the phone down line completely you could reduce the wait time considerably. In case any HMRC head honchos are reading Noneoftheabove consultancy inc can offer such advice for a bargain price of £4m.
    Oh dear, I see I was unfair. Just noticed this definite improvement, albeit old news (which I had missed myself), but it's within the 16 year period so hey:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/28/tax-hotline-allows-mps-and-vips-to-skip-the-queues-at-hmrc

    'MPs, some civil servants and other high-profile figures are having their calls to HM Revenue and Customs answered up to 12 times faster than the general public because they are able to access a “VIP” hotline.'
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,599

    DavidL said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    Defence reversals are an easy one. The world has changed unbelievably since that 2016 vote.

    We have no more doubts that effectively we are already at war with Russia. Might be a cold war technically but it is warming quickly.
    Another outstanding piece by Anne Applebaum, one of my favourite journalists, about how autocracies have identified the promulgation of the rule of law, independent judgment, human rights and freedom of speech as dangerous ideas that need to be undermined not only in their own countries but in ours:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/06/china-russia-republican-party-relations/678271/?utm_medium=cr&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=05_10_2024_writers_note_anne_applebaum_june_cover_actives_large_subject_line_10_10_80_winner&utm_content=Final&utm_term=ALL+Active+Subscribers+(Stripe+CDS+iTunes)

    Really quite a troubling piece.
    What is the real purpose of the u.s. involvement in Ukraine ? Is it a coincidence that several senior democrats had corrupt ties over there prior to the war ? Why were the u.s. running biolabs on ukr soil that Nuland admitted to ? Why has the west no interest in negotiating peace ?
    Many questions! Another: why do you leave spaces before your question marks? It makes you stand out a little, along with the lower-case with periods acronym style. Just FYI.... :kissing_heart:
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948
    Taz said:
    In principle sure. In practice, who on earth is going to police it and how?

    We don't even police basic driving standards anymore.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,625
    Josh Self
    @Josh_Self_
    NEW: Jacob Rees-Mogg's multi-point plan for Conservative election victory

    — Election pact with Reform
    — Nigel Farage to be appointed as minister
    — Richard Tice and Ben Habib to be candidates
    — Boris Johnson to return as foreign secretary

    https://twitter.com/Josh_Self_/status/1790647957756301347
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,181
    Specially for @RochdalePioneers :

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/15/brexit-border-it-outages-delay-import-of-perishable-items-to-uk-by-up-to-20-hours

    'Lorries carrying perishable food and plants from the EU are being held for up to 20 hours at the UK’s busiest Brexit border post as failures with the government’s IT systems delay imports entering Britain.

    Businesses have described the government’s new border control checks as a “disaster” after IT outages led to lorries carrying meat, cheese and cut flowers being held for long periods, reducing the shelf life of their goods and prompting retailers to reject some orders.'

    This is *almost seven years after the vote*.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,181

    Josh Self
    @Josh_Self_
    NEW: Jacob Rees-Mogg's multi-point plan for Conservative election victory

    — Election pact with Reform
    — Nigel Farage to be appointed as minister
    — Richard Tice and Ben Habib to be candidates
    — Boris Johnson to return as foreign secretary

    https://twitter.com/Josh_Self_/status/1790647957756301347

    Can't tell whether that is a joke or even possibly serious.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,948
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Like Sir Keir on accepting the referendum result, and the use of the private sector in the NHS, Lammy’s rejection of Nuclear weapons was a matter of principle and conscience

    David Lammy voted against Trident in 2016, and now wants to be a pro-nuclear, pro-Nato foreign sec independent.co.uk/voices/labour-…


    https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1790648817655689626?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Tories famously always sticking to their guns on great matters of principle like, say, Brexit.
    Defence reversals are an easy one. The world has changed unbelievably since that 2016 vote.

    We have no more doubts that effectively we are already at war with Russia. Might be a cold war technically but it is warming quickly.
    It wasn’t a matter of conscience and principle then. Or he doesn’t have them anymore
    You present this all as a kind of gotcha, that will bring the edifice of Labour fakery crashing down. But we have two realistic options for a government in this country with its ridiculous FPTP system: Labour or Tory.

    If your dreams were to come true and the electorate saw the Labour house of cards for what it is and brought it crashing down, then the upshot would be a Tory government.

    This Tory government have changed their mind on just about every serious policy topic going, from tax and spend to Brexit to net zero to the importance of infrastructure spending. That’s your alternative choice. That’s FPTP.
    Also I quite like politicians who are open to changing their minds and prefer them to the overly rigid types. I suspect that puts me in the minority but not by loads. And a seconds thought makes it clear that abiding by collective cabinet responsibility makes such compromises inevitable.

    So its hardly electoral disaster for Lammy to have changed his mind, or even claim that he has, because he is now representing the shadow cabinet viewpoint, ahead of the the Lammy personal viewpoint.
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