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Will we see another defection today? – politicalbetting.com

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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,336

    TOPPING said:

    Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.

    Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.

    This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
    And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.

    Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.

    I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
    All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
    It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
    At the co-op near me, I watched two men - late thirties to mid forties, white, possibly eastern european looking, walk into my local co-op, walk up to the fridge, and walk out again with a single cardboard tray of about twenty blocks of co-op own brand cheddar cheese (£3-ish a block, I reckon). The staff did nothing to stop this.

    I then saw said gentlemen a street down from the co-op on walking back home, putting the cheese into a rucksack, counting their haul as if it was gold bullion. My guess is they made off with 20 blocks of cheddar, so an RRP of sixty quid.

    But what's the street value of cheese? How do you offload it? Is there a friendly cheeseman who goes from pub to pub, offering his wares? "Oi, mate, wanna buy some cheddar?" And if so, what's the street value for cheese from someone's rucksack? £2 a block? How many blocks an hour can you offload?

    I considered the possibility that the cheese was nicked to order. Some restauranteur making a giant souffle, perhaps.

    But overall I was just struck by the weirdness of it. I can get the motivation behind shoplifting for yourself, if you're skint and you're hungry, but on the level these guys were doing it at? What's the risk vs reward here? Who are they selling it on to?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,436
    kyf_100 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.

    Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.

    This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
    And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.

    Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.

    I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
    All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
    It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
    At the co-op near me, I watched two men - late thirties to mid forties, white, possibly eastern european looking, walk into my local co-op, walk up to the fridge, and walk out again with a single cardboard tray of about twenty blocks of co-op own brand cheddar cheese (£3-ish a block, I reckon). The staff did nothing to stop this.

    I then saw said gentlemen a street down from the co-op on walking back home, putting the cheese into a rucksack, counting their haul as if it was gold bullion. My guess is they made off with 20 blocks of cheddar, so an RRP of sixty quid.

    But what's the street value of cheese? How do you offload it? Is there a friendly cheeseman who goes from pub to pub, offering his wares? "Oi, mate, wanna buy some cheddar?" And if so, what's the street value for cheese from someone's rucksack? £2 a block? How many blocks an hour can you offload?

    I considered the possibility that the cheese was nicked to order. Some restauranteur making a giant souffle, perhaps.

    But overall I was just struck by the weirdness of it. I can get the motivation behind shoplifting for yourself, if you're skint and you're hungry, but on the level these guys were doing it at? What's the risk vs reward here? Who are they selling it on to?
    £2 a block, but remember they can cut it with some aldi cheese to get far more than 20 blocks.

    Or wrap some ham around it and sell it as tapas at £5 a pop to the wokerati.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 68,334
    AlsoLei said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.

    Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.

    It's also quite hard to rob a bank, not only because they are all wine bars so it's hard to find one, but also because they carry embarrassingly tiny amounts of cash, the reasons for which see PB passim.

    Anna Bob A Job will be on shortly to explain why
    I was in London last week and was delighted to see a sign in the door of a barber's saying 'cash only'. Living where I do, cash is still accepted by all and sundry but reading PB would indicate it has been abolished in more advanced civilizations such as the Great Wen.
    Unpaid VAT bill.
    Perhaps. But it has always seemed to me that as long as there are income taxes, children, on-course bookies, working class widows on small pensions and small time drug dealers there will be a need for cash.
    Not to mention takeaways with similar VAT related problems.
    Last 'cash only' place I saw had a terminal tucked away under the counter in case people missed the sign on the door. It was an iZettle, too - so it's not like they were stuck on some sort of ancient RBS Streamline account with high fees.

    HMRC could make a killing if they investigated some of these... a small team of mystery shoppers would pay for themselves thousands of times over.
    Seems very public spirited of them, but wouldn't they be allowed to claim their payments on expenses?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,465
    kyf_100 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.

    Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.

    This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
    And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.

    Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.

    I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
    All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
    It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
    At the co-op near me, I watched two men - late thirties to mid forties, white, possibly eastern european looking, walk into my local co-op, walk up to the fridge, and walk out again with a single cardboard tray of about twenty blocks of co-op own brand cheddar cheese (£3-ish a block, I reckon). The staff did nothing to stop this.

    I then saw said gentlemen a street down from the co-op on walking back home, putting the cheese into a rucksack, counting their haul as if it was gold bullion. My guess is they made off with 20 blocks of cheddar, so an RRP of sixty quid.

    But what's the street value of cheese? How do you offload it? Is there a friendly cheeseman who goes from pub to pub, offering his wares? "Oi, mate, wanna buy some cheddar?" And if so, what's the street value for cheese from someone's rucksack? £2 a block? How many blocks an hour can you offload?

    I considered the possibility that the cheese was nicked to order. Some restauranteur making a giant souffle, perhaps.

    But overall I was just struck by the weirdness of it. I can get the motivation behind shoplifting for yourself, if you're skint and you're hungry, but on the level these guys were doing it at? What's the risk vs reward here? Who are they selling it on to?
    Cheese is pretty energy dense and nutritious. When my, then vegan, brother was told by the doctor that he was dangerously underweight, and had to eat more to put on weight, they told him to eat cheese.

    If you were stealing food to feed a large number of hungry people I don't think there are many better choices than large blocks of cheddar. But does seem a bit unlikely.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,336
    edited May 15

    kyf_100 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.

    Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.

    This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
    And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.

    Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.

    I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
    All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
    It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
    At the co-op near me, I watched two men - late thirties to mid forties, white, possibly eastern european looking, walk into my local co-op, walk up to the fridge, and walk out again with a single cardboard tray of about twenty blocks of co-op own brand cheddar cheese (£3-ish a block, I reckon). The staff did nothing to stop this.

    I then saw said gentlemen a street down from the co-op on walking back home, putting the cheese into a rucksack, counting their haul as if it was gold bullion. My guess is they made off with 20 blocks of cheddar, so an RRP of sixty quid.

    But what's the street value of cheese? How do you offload it? Is there a friendly cheeseman who goes from pub to pub, offering his wares? "Oi, mate, wanna buy some cheddar?" And if so, what's the street value for cheese from someone's rucksack? £2 a block? How many blocks an hour can you offload?

    I considered the possibility that the cheese was nicked to order. Some restauranteur making a giant souffle, perhaps.

    But overall I was just struck by the weirdness of it. I can get the motivation behind shoplifting for yourself, if you're skint and you're hungry, but on the level these guys were doing it at? What's the risk vs reward here? Who are they selling it on to?
    Cheese is pretty energy dense and nutritious. When my, then vegan, brother was told by the doctor that he was dangerously underweight, and had to eat more to put on weight, they told him to eat cheese.

    If you were stealing food to feed a large number of hungry people I don't think there are many better choices than large blocks of cheddar. But does seem a bit unlikely.
    Neither of these chaps looked like Jean Valjean, but you never know. It's possible they were part of a wider group or family doing this at scale and they're bartering amongst themselves - "I'll give you two packs of the cheeses I've nicked for four cans of coke and a pack of Haribo." Who knows. I'm just fascinated by the economies of nicking stuff at such a small, but obviously greater than subsistence "starving and need to eat today" level.

    Seeing these guys counting their haul a street over from where they nicked it, they really were acting like they'd knocked over a bank or something - fist bumping etc. So obviously the economies of it work out somehow.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,012

    kyf_100 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.

    Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.

    This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
    And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.

    Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.

    I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
    All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
    It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
    At the co-op near me, I watched two men - late thirties to mid forties, white, possibly eastern european looking, walk into my local co-op, walk up to the fridge, and walk out again with a single cardboard tray of about twenty blocks of co-op own brand cheddar cheese (£3-ish a block, I reckon). The staff did nothing to stop this.

    I then saw said gentlemen a street down from the co-op on walking back home, putting the cheese into a rucksack, counting their haul as if it was gold bullion. My guess is they made off with 20 blocks of cheddar, so an RRP of sixty quid.

    But what's the street value of cheese? How do you offload it? Is there a friendly cheeseman who goes from pub to pub, offering his wares? "Oi, mate, wanna buy some cheddar?" And if so, what's the street value for cheese from someone's rucksack? £2 a block? How many blocks an hour can you offload?

    I considered the possibility that the cheese was nicked to order. Some restauranteur making a giant souffle, perhaps.

    But overall I was just struck by the weirdness of it. I can get the motivation behind shoplifting for yourself, if you're skint and you're hungry, but on the level these guys were doing it at? What's the risk vs reward here? Who are they selling it on to?
    Cheese is pretty energy dense and nutritious. When my, then vegan, brother was told by the doctor that he was dangerously underweight, and had to eat more to put on weight, they told him to eat cheese.

    If you were stealing food to feed a large number of hungry people I don't think there are many better choices than large blocks of cheddar. But does seem a bit unlikely.
    More to the point shoplifting is becoming a risk free crime. The staff are told not to try and stop you in case they get hurt and make claims on the insurance and the police just don't seem to care.

    This is a long way from satisfactory. Modern CCTV is very good. ID is unlikely to be a problem. We just need to prosecute enough of these cases to rebalance the risk/reward ratio. Its not hard, it just needs a bit of focus and determination.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,727
    DavidL said:

    kyf_100 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.

    Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.

    This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
    And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.

    Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.

    I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
    All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
    It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
    At the co-op near me, I watched two men - late thirties to mid forties, white, possibly eastern european looking, walk into my local co-op, walk up to the fridge, and walk out again with a single cardboard tray of about twenty blocks of co-op own brand cheddar cheese (£3-ish a block, I reckon). The staff did nothing to stop this.

    I then saw said gentlemen a street down from the co-op on walking back home, putting the cheese into a rucksack, counting their haul as if it was gold bullion. My guess is they made off with 20 blocks of cheddar, so an RRP of sixty quid.

    But what's the street value of cheese? How do you offload it? Is there a friendly cheeseman who goes from pub to pub, offering his wares? "Oi, mate, wanna buy some cheddar?" And if so, what's the street value for cheese from someone's rucksack? £2 a block? How many blocks an hour can you offload?

    I considered the possibility that the cheese was nicked to order. Some restauranteur making a giant souffle, perhaps.

    But overall I was just struck by the weirdness of it. I can get the motivation behind shoplifting for yourself, if you're skint and you're hungry, but on the level these guys were doing it at? What's the risk vs reward here? Who are they selling it on to?
    Cheese is pretty energy dense and nutritious. When my, then vegan, brother was told by the doctor that he was dangerously underweight, and had to eat more to put on weight, they told him to eat cheese.

    If you were stealing food to feed a large number of hungry people I don't think there are many better choices than large blocks of cheddar. But does seem a bit unlikely.
    More to the point shoplifting is becoming a risk free crime. The staff are told not to try and stop you in case they get hurt and make claims on the insurance and the police just don't seem to care.

    This is a long way from satisfactory. Modern CCTV is very good. ID is unlikely to be a problem. We just need to prosecute enough of these cases to rebalance the risk/reward ratio. Its not hard, it just needs a bit of focus and determination.
    If Starmer wants a set of policies that will unite most on the right and left, except a few fringe libertarian tax cutters and anarchist defund the fuzz types, then a real offer on sorting out detection and prosecution of crimes that really annoy people - shoplifting, car and bike theft, burglary, mugging - would be a no brainer.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,501
    kyf_100 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Some crimes seemed to have gone away e.g 14-15 year olds joy riding cars. Now cars are stolen to order and those nicking scooters / e-bikes are doing so to commit more crimes.

    Ram-raiding doesn't seem to be much of a thing these days, instead you just walk in and take all the stuff off the shelves during the day.

    This is because staff are told not to confront shop lifters in any way. Which is sensible advice imo but I was chatting to some guy at Halfords the other day (to buy a Canyon Speedmax CFR Track - just kidding Dura) and they said that they have specifically been told not to do anything. One told me that a girl walked in, put something under her jacket, was asked to put it back, said no, and then walked out.
    And then the problem is the criminals know this, so its becomes an epidemic and as we are seeing in the US leads to these big chains deciding enough is enough and closing up shop.

    Obviously another driver of this, is the fact you can flog all this stuff on ebay, facebook marketplace etc, emasse, rather than having to either go through a fence / dodgy pawnbrokers or be round the pubs Delboy style.

    I saw a report in the US, where it was incredibly blatant. They were selling millions of dollars of stuff with a "branded" online shopfront on these platforms. All beauty products that they were paying people to just go every day and steal the sub $1000 limit.
    All shops tell their staff not to intervene - otherwise they are liable for any injuries to staff *and* being sued for assault and false imprisonment by the shop lifters.
    It is rather comical when these stores employ security guards, who just stand there while the shoplifters casually walk out with all the goods. What's the point of the security guard, to remind the Richard Madeley's of this world they forgot to scan an item at the self service checkout?
    At the co-op near me, I watched two men - late thirties to mid forties, white, possibly eastern european looking, walk into my local co-op, walk up to the fridge, and walk out again with a single cardboard tray of about twenty blocks of co-op own brand cheddar cheese (£3-ish a block, I reckon). The staff did nothing to stop this.

    I then saw said gentlemen a street down from the co-op on walking back home, putting the cheese into a rucksack, counting their haul as if it was gold bullion. My guess is they made off with 20 blocks of cheddar, so an RRP of sixty quid.

    But what's the street value of cheese? How do you offload it? Is there a friendly cheeseman who goes from pub to pub, offering his wares? "Oi, mate, wanna buy some cheddar?" And if so, what's the street value for cheese from someone's rucksack? £2 a block? How many blocks an hour can you offload?

    I considered the possibility that the cheese was nicked to order. Some restauranteur making a giant souffle, perhaps.

    But overall I was just struck by the weirdness of it. I can get the motivation behind shoplifting for yourself, if you're skint and you're hungry, but on the level these guys were doing it at? What's the risk vs reward here? Who are they selling it on to?
    Should break their legs when they get caught, put them off doing it again.
This discussion has been closed.