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Sunak’s spot of sunshine: Reform underperformed – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384

    Carnyx said:

    This has made me tumescent proud to be British.


    Very odd. Very precise wording. But still ambiguous. Could refer to an enemy fleet as a whole; doesn't say all of it has to be in action (which is impossible anyway in practice). So what about single ship actions? Even ignoring those, and the Java Sea (because under Netherlands command), and sticking to 1707-today, it's not hard to get 12 and more:

    Gulf of Thailand
    Denmark Strait
    Indian Ocean (Hermes etc.)
    Italian MAS Maiales in Alexandria
    PQ17, HX229/SC112 and several other convoys
    Norwegian Campaign/Unternehmen Juno
    Skagerrak/Jutland
    Coronel
    Mauritius
    MInorca
    Chesapeake
    Lizard



    There's that inferiority complex again.
    That's your mentality, not mine - seeing inferiority and superiority everywhere, even in the toilet cistern. Put a sock in it.

    I went to school with a girl whose father was on Glorious. Very, very fortunately he had been sent ashore to deal with some admin stuff. Huge, massive, fuck-up by an incompetent and arrogant membner of the officer class. Never forgotten him telling me about it when I was a boy.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,277

    Australia is available at 500/1. Put money on Australia!

    1000 now. I think they must be out.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681

    Australia is available at 500/1. Put money on Australia!

    Worth a pound (at 1000-1).
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    This has made me tumescent proud to be British.


    Very odd. Very precise wording. But still ambiguous. Could refer to an enemy fleet as a whole; doesn't say all of it has to be in action (which is impossible anyway in practice). So what about single ship actions? Even ignoring those, and the Java Sea (because under Netherlands command), and sticking to 1707-today, it's not hard to get 12 and more:

    Gulf of Thailand
    Denmark Strait
    Indian Ocean (Hermes etc.)
    Italian MAS Maiales in Alexandria
    PQ17, HX229/SC112 and several other convoys
    Norwegian Campaign/Unternehmen Juno
    Skagerrak/Jutland
    Coronel
    Mauritius
    MInorca
    Chesapeake
    Lizard



    I just knew someone on PB would come up with a list given enough time.
    PS Interesting how the relative balance of goals, so to speak, works out. In the old days the victories usually outweighed the defeats, but that wasn't so obvious in later decades. Very obvious strategic overstretch in the 1930s.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,976
    Carnyx said:

    This has made me tumescent proud to be British.


    Very odd. Very precise wording. But still ambiguous. Could refer to an enemy fleet as a whole; doesn't say all of it has to be in action (which is impossible anyway in practice). So what about single ship actions? Even ignoring those, and the Java Sea (because under Netherlands command), and sticking to 1707-today, it's not hard to get 12 and more:

    Gulf of Thailand
    Denmark Strait
    Indian Ocean (Hermes etc.)
    Italian MAS Maiales in Alexandria
    PQ17, HX229/SC112 and several other convoys
    Norwegian Campaign/Unternehmen Juno
    Skagerrak/Jutland
    Coronel
    Mauritius
    MInorca
    Chesapeake
    Lizard

    PS If anyone is relying on "the high seas", then there are very few naval battles on the high seas anyway, making Mr Snow's statement almost meaningless. Most of them are near the choke points or bases of one sidfe or other.

    BBC4 has just (ie within the last hour) repeated the Jeremy Clarkson documentary on the PQ17 Arctic convoy debacle. That said, it was hardly a naval battle on the high seas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03n3297/pq17-an-arctic-convoy-disaster
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,819
    @jimsciutto
    Breaking: Judge Aileen Cannon has indefinitely postponed Donald Trump’s classified documents trial in Florida, citing significant issues around classified evidence that would need to be worked out before the federal criminal case goes to a jury. In an order Tuesday, Cannon cancelled the May trial date and did not set a new date.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384

    Carnyx said:

    This has made me tumescent proud to be British.


    Very odd. Very precise wording. But still ambiguous. Could refer to an enemy fleet as a whole; doesn't say all of it has to be in action (which is impossible anyway in practice). So what about single ship actions? Even ignoring those, and the Java Sea (because under Netherlands command), and sticking to 1707-today, it's not hard to get 12 and more:

    Gulf of Thailand
    Denmark Strait
    Indian Ocean (Hermes etc.)
    Italian MAS Maiales in Alexandria
    PQ17, HX229/SC112 and several other convoys
    Norwegian Campaign/Unternehmen Juno
    Skagerrak/Jutland
    Coronel
    Mauritius
    MInorca
    Chesapeake
    Lizard

    PS If anyone is relying on "the high seas", then there are very few naval battles on the high seas anyway, making Mr Snow's statement almost meaningless. Most of them are near the choke points or bases of one sidfe or other.

    BBC4 has just (ie within the last hour) repeated the Jeremy Clarkson documentary on the PQ17 Arctic convoy debacle. That said, it was hardly a naval battle on the high seas.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03n3297/pq17-an-arctic-convoy-disaster
    Or indeed that of North Cape (home team won, of course) and so on. But as I said earlier, 'high seas' is a bit of a cop out - most battles have nearby land because that's where the enemy is hanging out. The First of June was an exception, hence the name. Compare Trafalgar.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,505
    https://x.com/guychazan/status/1787737250702201126

    Brexit wouldn’t have happened if Europe had made more concessions to the UK, CDU leader Friedrich Merz tells the FT. He also turns out to be a fan of the Rwanda model
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,851

    I bought a trisuit in March.

    It feels good.
    I look good in it.

    The only issue is... I'm slightly embarrassed to be seen in public in it.

    It hides nothing. It's a little obscene. :)

    What is the purpose of clothing? Three purposes. To shelter your body from the elements. To preserve your dignity/modesty in the eyes of others. For reasons of flamboyant display.

    If your trisuit is a little obscene then it's failing on one of the purposes of clothing. And that's why I'm a cyclist who doesn't wear lycra.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,298
    Australia, Ireland and Croatia are my tips.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,300
    Good to see Finland through. They must have a good chance to win 👍
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,277

    Australia, Ireland and Croatia are my tips.

    Australia gone...
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,300
    Also good return for Luxembourg didn't realise they had been away since 1993.

    Very surprised Australia didn't get through!
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,277

    Good to see Finland through. They must have a good chance to win 👍

    Windows95man was doing a bit of a Farage in his shorts.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,298
    And those who have qualified are...

    Serbia
    Portugal
    Slovenia (very formfitting bodysuit)
    Ukraine (biiiig ballad)
    Lithuania
    Finland (bonkers, lots of male nudity)
    Cyprus (generic)
    Croatia
    Ireland (bonkers, good and non-binary)
    Luxembourg

    ... so my track record of betting tips on PB continues to be poor! No Australia. The BBC commentators are surprised too.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,671
    edited May 7
    Typical and blatant anti-semitism.

    No votes for Israel in tonight's Eurovision semi final.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,277

    I bought a trisuit in March.

    It feels good.
    I look good in it.

    The only issue is... I'm slightly embarrassed to be seen in public in it.

    It hides nothing. It's a little obscene. :)

    What is the purpose of clothing? Three purposes. To shelter your body from the elements. To preserve your dignity/modesty in the eyes of others. For reasons of flamboyant display.

    If your trisuit is a little obscene then it's failing on one of the purposes of clothing. And that's why I'm a cyclist who doesn't wear lycra.
    Few of the outfits in tonight's show would meet your first two criteria. Most would qualify by the last.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,943

    https://x.com/guychazan/status/1787737250702201126

    Brexit wouldn’t have happened if Europe had made more concessions to the UK, CDU leader Friedrich Merz tells the FT. He also turns out to be a fan of the Rwanda model

    Well, if the concession had been an end to FoM...
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,298
    TOPPING said:

    Typical and blatant anti-semitism.

    No votes for Israel in tonight's Eurovision semi final.

    (To explain the joke, they're in Thursday's semi.)
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,277

    And those who have qualified are...

    Serbia
    Portugal
    Slovenia (very formfitting bodysuit)
    Ukraine (biiiig ballad)
    Lithuania
    Finland (bonkers, lots of male nudity)
    Cyprus (generic)
    Croatia
    Ireland (bonkers, good and non-binary)
    Luxembourg

    ... so my track record of betting tips on PB continues to be poor! No Australia. The BBC commentators are surprised too.

    Former yugoslavia always does well in the voting.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Looking forward to the vitriolic response from Daily Mail to this:


    "At Sulkava prison in Finland, I stood on the edge of a lake where, in the summer, prisoners fished for their dinner and foraged in the woodland for mushrooms and lingonberries. “Being here and able to cook for myself brings me a sense of normality, dignity and self-sufficiency,” one prisoner told me."


    Appetising, delicious food served up to prisoners? It works for the Nordic countries

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/07/prisoners-nordic-countries-cook-eat-forage-britain

    Teaching them how to cook for when they get out is not a small thing. Not every prisoner is a PB aficionado who can discourse learnedly on this hot sauce or that vegan recipe.
    I agree. I was being flippant.

    Uk prisons are a disgrace.
    Oh, you didn't come over as flippant at all - just savagely ironic. And rightly so.
    I thought teaching people to cook was violently middle class?

    I recall the outrage when Delia published a book starting with how to cook an egg.
    My mum gave it to me when I was a student. I needed it.
    The launch was hilarious. Various bizarre interviews were given. It was sexist, classist etc etc. One MP of a certain fame rattled the list off so fast that she included “racist” - which she rolled back when the puzzled interviewer asked how?

    Another MP, later made famous in the expenses scandal for eating every meal at a resteraunt, opined that “real people” had no time to cook.

    I wonder what such people make of teaching other skills. Like reading and writing.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,903
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The premise of this and other like-minded pieces is Reform voters are all Conservatives who will run back to the blue rosette at the first whiff of electoral gunpowder. The analogy is with those Conservatives who used to "protest" in mid-term by voting Lib Dem at Council elections and Parliamentary by-elections.

    This produced fantastic results for the LDs but the problem was as soon as a GE heaved into view and it was a forced choice between a Labour Government and a Conservative Government the protesters headed back to the Conservatives as did those who registered their "protest" by staying at home for local elections and by-elections.

    What you had were Conservatives who were never really Lib Dems at all but realised they could use a vote for the LDs as a harmless (well, not for the unfortunate Conservative local candidate) but significant kick for the incumbent Government.

    So, are the current Reform voters something similar? There's not much polling to answer that question definitively - there is a think a significant divergent between Tice/Farage and the membership. To this observer, the Reform leadership, apart from their hostility to the EU, are unreconstructed Thatcherites kken on lower taxes and big cuts in public spending but the Reform membership seems to be more in the Boris Johnson mould which is interventionist and keen to see public money spent but in certain areas and on certain things.

    Even on immigration, there's a line being walked between outright hostility to all migrants, both legal and illegal, and a recognition a growing economy leads a level of immigration and recognising gaps in key specialisms needed to fuel that growth can only be filled with immigration.

    That's the paradox Reform probably won't address let alone resolve this side of a GE.

    How is Reform UK walking a line on immigration? They've made net zero immigration the central plank of their policies.
    That may be true but I think the party has elements who would support limited immigration on economic grounds.

    The other nuance to this observer is whether they mean literally "one in one out" or whether it's more about a severe clampdown on illegal migration (the aim being its elimination) and far more restrictive conditions on legal migration.
    They've said what their policy is. It is for net zero immigration (legal or "illegal"). It's not quite one in one out. You don't sit waiting to be let in until someone leaves, but it's effectively one in one out.
    It isn't really - there's a bit of wiggle room around the numbers - but I appreciate where the policy is going.

    Presumably the hope of Conservative strategists is Rwanda will be seen to have an effect and that will draw Reform supporters back - the problem is if it doesn't work or the perception is it isn't working, what then?
    Depends why Con-to-Ref sayers switched.

    Crudely, is the number of small boat assylum seekers the reason or the justification? Same for total net migration. Yes, there are undoubtedly voters who can be wooed back by tough actions on border control, if they can be made to work. (Let's see on that one.)

    But for at least some Reform voters, it's more visceral. They just don't like RIshi. Doesn't matter why that is so, it just is. Trying to get them back into the tory column through policy is unlikely to work. They might not like Starmer either, but that's not the point. They really dislike Rishi.

    So in London, Susan Hall was able to woo a decent slice of that vote. Howard Cox ended up on 3% in the Mayoral election, against 7% in the Assembly constituencies and 6% for the list. But Khan was (and is) seen as an effective bogeyman, with a flagship policy to be sunk. And Hall is more than a bit Reform-y herself. In the West Midlands, the RefUK candidate got 6%; Andy Street didn't need that many more of those votes to have won.

    In the other places where Reform stood, they got some decent minor party shares. 11% in the East Midlands, 8% in Greater Manchester, 9% in the North East, 15% for the Derbyshire PCC, 14% for the Linconshire PCC.

    So there is a Reform vote out there. Not as much as the polls are saying, but still chunky. And some of it can probably be enticed back into the Conservative fold, but nowhere near all of it. A million miles from a seat-winning score, which is why Farage is likely to be washing his hair when the election is called. But enough (high single figures?) to cause the Conservatives a lot of trouble. Especially when the anti-Conservative vote on the cenre-left looks so damn efficient.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    Scott_xP said:

    @jimsciutto
    Breaking: Judge Aileen Cannon has indefinitely postponed Donald Trump’s classified documents trial in Florida, citing significant issues around classified evidence that would need to be worked out before the federal criminal case goes to a jury. In an order Tuesday, Cannon cancelled the May trial date and did not set a new date.

    By most accounts she takes ages to decide even straightforward things, as she is not very experienced, so even if a May date had not been unlikely from the start, pre-election was never going to happen even assuming nothing nefarious.

    It's odd though, as the facts of the case seem pretty simple, and not even hinging in most cases on classified evidence, since much of it is about willfully hiding documents which were subpoenered, and it doesn't matter whether Trump thought or even really did have a right to retain those ones, he concocted a scheme to hide them after legally being required to produce them.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,409

    I bought a trisuit in March.

    It feels good.
    I look good in it.

    The only issue is... I'm slightly embarrassed to be seen in public in it.

    It hides nothing. It's a little obscene. :)

    What is the purpose of clothing? Three purposes. To shelter your body from the elements. To preserve your dignity/modesty in the eyes of others. For reasons of flamboyant display.

    If your trisuit is a little obscene then it's failing on one of the purposes of clothing. And that's why I'm a cyclist who doesn't wear lycra.
    Errr, I thought the point of cycling gear was to minimize chafing.
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,173
    TOPPING said:

    Typical and blatant anti-semitism.

    No votes for Israel in tonight's Eurovision semi final.

    It was one of the best songs . I feel very sorry for the singer but I wouldn’t call it anti-semitism . More anti the Israeli government actions in Gaza .
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,354
    rcs1000 said:

    You know, I think someone wrote a book about a President who did such a thing.
    "Clear and Present Danger" or "Sicario"?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    This has made me tumescent proud to be British.


    Very odd. Very precise wording. But still ambiguous. Could refer to an enemy fleet as a whole; doesn't say all of it has to be in action (which is impossible anyway in practice). So what about single ship actions? Even ignoring those, and the Java Sea (because under Netherlands command), and sticking to 1707-today, it's not hard to get 12 and more:

    Gulf of Thailand
    Denmark Strait
    Indian Ocean (Hermes etc.)
    Italian MAS Maiales in Alexandria
    PQ17, HX229/SC112 and several other convoys
    Norwegian Campaign/Unternehmen Juno
    Skagerrak/Jutland
    Coronel
    Mauritius
    MInorca
    Chesapeake
    Lizard



    I just knew someone on PB would come up with a list given enough time.
    PS Interesting how the relative balance of goals, so to speak, works out. In the old days the victories usually outweighed the defeats, but that wasn't so obvious in later decades. Very obvious strategic overstretch in the 1930s.
    The RN chased the German surface navy out of existence in WWII. To the point that Hitler handed the whole thing to Donuts and told him to scrap all the surface ships.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,173
    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,012

    I bought a trisuit in March.

    It feels good.
    I look good in it.

    The only issue is... I'm slightly embarrassed to be seen in public in it.

    It hides nothing. It's a little obscene. :)

    What is the purpose of clothing? Three purposes. To shelter your body from the elements. To preserve your dignity/modesty in the eyes of others. For reasons of flamboyant display.

    If your trisuit is a little obscene then it's failing on one of the purposes of clothing. And that's why I'm a cyclist who doesn't wear lycra.
    You can always wear shorts over the lycra if you aren't trying to go fast.

    Normal for mountain bikers (unless racing).
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,012
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384
    edited May 7

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    This has made me tumescent proud to be British.


    Very odd. Very precise wording. But still ambiguous. Could refer to an enemy fleet as a whole; doesn't say all of it has to be in action (which is impossible anyway in practice). So what about single ship actions? Even ignoring those, and the Java Sea (because under Netherlands command), and sticking to 1707-today, it's not hard to get 12 and more:

    Gulf of Thailand
    Denmark Strait
    Indian Ocean (Hermes etc.)
    Italian MAS Maiales in Alexandria
    PQ17, HX229/SC112 and several other convoys
    Norwegian Campaign/Unternehmen Juno
    Skagerrak/Jutland
    Coronel
    Mauritius
    MInorca
    Chesapeake
    Lizard



    I just knew someone on PB would come up with a list given enough time.
    PS Interesting how the relative balance of goals, so to speak, works out. In the old days the victories usually outweighed the defeats, but that wasn't so obvious in later decades. Very obvious strategic overstretch in the 1930s.
    The RN chased the German surface navy out of existence in WWII. To the point that Hitler handed the whole thing to Donuts and told him to scrap all the surface ships.
    So it should have, given its size. And so it did - Norwegian Campaign was very much a net positive score once one added all the battles. But there were other modes and other enemies and by then asymmetric warfare (subs vs dreadnoughts etc.) had set in. And the Riskflotte theory still worked. Couldn't cover home defence, convoys, Italy and Japan all at once, at least to begin with.

  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,298
    nico679 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Typical and blatant anti-semitism.

    No votes for Israel in tonight's Eurovision semi final.

    It was one of the best songs . I feel very sorry for the singer but I wouldn’t call it anti-semitism . More anti the Israeli government actions in Gaza .
    They're not on until Thursday's semi-final. They're still in.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    At a random guess - a complex interaction of organisational fiefdoms, budgets, a hacked up system that replaced a system of wooden talkies used since 1124 and the repeated failure of projects to build a replacement.

    So the payroll system was the equivalent of a Portacabin from late 1963.
    Ah, now I'm getting nostalgic for all those 'temporary' pratten hut classrooms from my youth.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,819
    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    You outsource payroll to a company that specialises in payroll, and does it for multiple other entities. The network is probably as secure as any commercial system these days, which means spectacularly vulnerable to obtaining someones password and going from there
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,851

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,110

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Carrier pigeon.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,760

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,819
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Carrier pigeon.
    RFC 1149
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,851
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Carrier pigeon.
    Vulnerable to Peregrine Falcon attack.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,851

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
    Presumably encrypted smoke signals?
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    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    Breaking news
    The Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine is being withdrawn worldwide, months after the pharmaceutical giant admitted for the first time in court documents that it can cause a rare and dangerous side effect

    Find out more
    https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/07/astrazeneca-withdrawing-covid-vaccine/

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1787942880130052523
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
    Presumably encrypted smoke signals?
    Print out on a Babbage Engine to all bases, which then have a pay parade every Friday morning. Step forward, salute, hold cap out (if RN), receive cash, step back and march smartly off ...
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,173

    nico679 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Typical and blatant anti-semitism.

    No votes for Israel in tonight's Eurovision semi final.

    It was one of the best songs . I feel very sorry for the singer but I wouldn’t call it anti-semitism . More anti the Israeli government actions in Gaza .
    They're not on until Thursday's semi-final. They're still in.
    Oh I see ! I didn’t watch tonight but have seen the song on the net and it’s very good .
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Carrier pigeon.
    RFC 1149
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Carrier pigeon.
    No love for semaphore?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
    The problem there is that you would need a 247 person requirements and contracting team, which would take 17 years to come up with The Unique British Requirements For Smoke Signals.

    Bae would take £2.37 Billion to produce a system that was magnificent. Apart from not producing smoke.

    Final cost per smoke signal would be £2,453.67

    When it worked.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,012

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
    Presumably encrypted smoke signals?
    Encrypted smoke signals indeed.

    You can keep the database separate and just send the monthly extract with the absolute minimum data to make the payments via your non air-gapped network.

    No need to store anything.


    There was clearly an assessment that this data wasn't valuable.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,384
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
    Scott_xP said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Carrier pigeon.
    RFC 1149
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Carrier pigeon.
    No love for semaphore?
    Infrastructure sold off. Though this does exist.

    https://www.landmarktrust.org.uk/search-and-book/properties/semaphore-tower-58731/#Overview

  • Options
    DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 172
    edited May 7
    Scott_xP said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    You outsource payroll to a company that specialises in payroll, and does it for multiple other entities. The network is probably as secure as any commercial system these days, which means spectacularly vulnerable to obtaining someones password and going from there
    Working in this industry (as I have gathered a few other PBers do) can confirm the frankly disgusting standards some adhere (or not!) to. It's shocking.

    There's plenty of other crazy stuff though. Did you know for example one of our largest employers has an "auto fire" system? If anyone ever noticed...
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42

    Olly said:

    Breaking news
    The Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine is being withdrawn worldwide, months after the pharmaceutical giant admitted for the first time in court documents that it can cause a rare and dangerous side effect

    Find out more
    https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/07/astrazeneca-withdrawing-covid-vaccine/

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1787942880130052523

    It did it’s job though, and saved thousands of lives, and allowed a return to normal life. Not a bad achievement. We have better and safer vaccines for Covid now, so it’s natural to use those.
    Lol
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    edited May 7
    Olly said:

    Olly said:

    Breaking news
    The Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine is being withdrawn worldwide, months after the pharmaceutical giant admitted for the first time in court documents that it can cause a rare and dangerous side effect

    Find out more
    https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/07/astrazeneca-withdrawing-covid-vaccine/

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1787942880130052523

    It did it’s job though, and saved thousands of lives, and allowed a return to normal life. Not a bad achievement. We have better and safer vaccines for Covid now, so it’s natural to use those.
    Lol
    What do you find funny about that? Are you just another anti vaxxer prick? Care to talk science?
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    Isabel Oakeshott now on the case.

    Oh right. So AstraZeneca has just withdrawn its Covid vaccine after admitting rare side effect. Will the entire government and
    @MattHancock
    who bullied the population into being jabbed and all those who screeched “anti vaxxer” at those of us with concerns now apologise?!
    9:40 PM · May 7, 2024
    ·
    58K
    Views

    https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1787945626128298091
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    edited May 7
    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Seems like it was plenty effective, and as for safe, over 80 deaths if so is tragic, but the results from the vaccination programme speak for themselves that thousands of lives appear to have been saved. Not having to hand other options, the right choice was made. Well done to the government on this one.

    Oakeshott and others are not going to get apologies, because it still seems to have been safer than not having the mass vaccination campaign. So they can be pretend heroes all they like.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Certainly effective, and side effects found in stage IV (large scale use). Now phased out as better and safer vaccines are available.

    You may have missed the 260,000 dead from Covid, as a counter to 80 deaths ‘linked’ to the AZ vaccine.
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    kle4 said:

    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Seems like it was plenty effective, and as for safe, over 80 deaths if so is tragic, but the results from the vaccination programme speak for themselves that thousands of lives appear to have been saved. Not having to hand other options, the right choice was made. Well done to the government on this one.

    Oakeshott and others are not going to get apologies, because it still seems to have been safer than not having the mass vaccination campaign. So they can be pretend heroes all they like.
    Lol. Well you are a civil servant. Regardless though this announcement will likely spook the general public and damage confidence in vaccines in general.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,580
    Judicial caution from Merchan in the Trump trial, or something the lawyers can seize on to trial to force a mistrial when their own witnesses come in, when we will be at such a point? It has to be on the table if they think things are looking bad.

    Having said that, he thinks there were guardrails in place, prosecution offered appropriate instructions, but he's not discounting Blanche's point. But, he just thinks we're not at a point to merit a mistrial
    https://nitter.poast.org/TylerMcBrien/status/1787909065060081676#m
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,173
    Olly said:

    Breaking news
    The Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine is being withdrawn worldwide, months after the pharmaceutical giant admitted for the first time in court documents that it can cause a rare and dangerous side effect

    Find out more
    https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/07/astrazeneca-withdrawing-covid-vaccine/

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1787942880130052523

    I only ever had Pfizer and then Moderna boosters and was relieved . I remember all the anti EU hate spewed by much of the right wing UK media who treated any criticisms of AZ as heresy. Only to then have to admit there were issues with it .
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    Olly said:

    kle4 said:

    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Seems like it was plenty effective, and as for safe, over 80 deaths if so is tragic, but the results from the vaccination programme speak for themselves that thousands of lives appear to have been saved. Not having to hand other options, the right choice was made. Well done to the government on this one.

    Oakeshott and others are not going to get apologies, because it still seems to have been safer than not having the mass vaccination campaign. So they can be pretend heroes all they like.
    Lol. Well you are a civil servant. Regardless though this announcement will likely spook the general public and damage confidence in vaccines in general.
    Doubt it. The old folks cannot get enough covid jabs. Check out any surgery when they offer the vaccines. Old folks will queue for hours.

    Now what about the BA pilots?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    nico679 said:

    Olly said:

    Breaking news
    The Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine is being withdrawn worldwide, months after the pharmaceutical giant admitted for the first time in court documents that it can cause a rare and dangerous side effect

    Find out more
    https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/07/astrazeneca-withdrawing-covid-vaccine/

    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1787942880130052523

    I only ever had Pfizer and then Moderna boosters and was relieved . I remember all the anti EU hate spewed by much of the right wing UK media who treated any criticisms of AZ as heresy. Only to then have to admit there were issues with it .
    The EU hate was more about the triggering of a certain article by UvdL…
  • Options
    DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 172
    Carnyx said:


    Very odd. Very precise wording. But still ambiguous. Could refer to an enemy fleet as a whole; doesn't say all of it has to be in action (which is impossible anyway in practice). So what about single ship actions? Even ignoring those, and the Java Sea (because under Netherlands command), and sticking to 1707-today, it's not hard to get 12 and more:

    Gulf of Thailand
    Denmark Strait
    Indian Ocean (Hermes etc.)
    Italian MAS Maiales in Alexandria
    PQ17, HX229/SC112 and several other convoys
    Norwegian Campaign/Unternehmen Juno
    Skagerrak/Jutland
    Coronel
    Mauritius
    MInorca
    Chesapeake
    Lizard

    PS If anyone is relying on "the high seas", then there are very few naval battles on the high seas anyway, making Mr Snow's statement almost meaningless. Most of them are near the choke points or bases of one sidfe or other.

    1707 wouldn't be the right date for United Kingdom ;)

    (Not that this invalidates majority of your examples, if not all of them - I'm not familiar with them all)
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    RobD said:

    .

    Olly said:

    kle4 said:

    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Seems like it was plenty effective, and as for safe, over 80 deaths if so is tragic, but the results from the vaccination programme speak for themselves that thousands of lives appear to have been saved. Not having to hand other options, the right choice was made. Well done to the government on this one.

    Oakeshott and others are not going to get apologies, because it still seems to have been safer than not having the mass vaccination campaign. So they can be pretend heroes all they like.
    Lol. Well you are a civil servant. Regardless though this announcement will likely spook the general public and damage confidence in vaccines in general.
    Far far more damage is done by the ignorant tweets you’ve posted, and anti-vaxxer bollocks in general.
    The general public are easily spooked. This will spook them. Trust in our institutions is being lost. And why were young people coerced into getting the vaccine.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    Olly said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Olly said:

    kle4 said:

    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Seems like it was plenty effective, and as for safe, over 80 deaths if so is tragic, but the results from the vaccination programme speak for themselves that thousands of lives appear to have been saved. Not having to hand other options, the right choice was made. Well done to the government on this one.

    Oakeshott and others are not going to get apologies, because it still seems to have been safer than not having the mass vaccination campaign. So they can be pretend heroes all they like.
    Lol. Well you are a civil servant. Regardless though this announcement will likely spook the general public and damage confidence in vaccines in general.
    Far far more damage is done by the ignorant tweets you’ve posted, and anti-vaxxer bollocks in general.
    The general public are easily spooked. This will spook them. Trust in our institutions is being lost. And why were young people coerced into getting the vaccine.
    I see you don’t want to talk about science. Perhaps because you have no idea?
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    kle4 said:

    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Seems like it was plenty effective, and as for safe, over 80 deaths if so is tragic, but the results from the vaccination programme speak for themselves that thousands of lives appear to have been saved. Not having to hand other options, the right choice was made. Well done to the government on this one.

    Oakeshott and others are not going to get apologies, because it still seems to have been safer than not having the mass vaccination campaign. So they can be pretend heroes all they like.
    Perception is everything is life. The perception is turning to the jabs are dangerous. Thats a massive change.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,219

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    The premise of this and other like-minded pieces is Reform voters are all Conservatives who will run back to the blue rosette at the first whiff of electoral gunpowder. The analogy is with those Conservatives who used to "protest" in mid-term by voting Lib Dem at Council elections and Parliamentary by-elections.

    This produced fantastic results for the LDs but the problem was as soon as a GE heaved into view and it was a forced choice between a Labour Government and a Conservative Government the protesters headed back to the Conservatives as did those who registered their "protest" by staying at home for local elections and by-elections.

    What you had were Conservatives who were never really Lib Dems at all but realised they could use a vote for the LDs as a harmless (well, not for the unfortunate Conservative local candidate) but significant kick for the incumbent Government.

    So, are the current Reform voters something similar? There's not much polling to answer that question definitively - there is a think a significant divergent between Tice/Farage and the membership. To this observer, the Reform leadership, apart from their hostility to the EU, are unreconstructed Thatcherites kken on lower taxes and big cuts in public spending but the Reform membership seems to be more in the Boris Johnson mould which is interventionist and keen to see public money spent but in certain areas and on certain things.

    Even on immigration, there's a line being walked between outright hostility to all migrants, both legal and illegal, and a recognition a growing economy leads a level of immigration and recognising gaps in key specialisms needed to fuel that growth can only be filled with immigration.

    That's the paradox Reform probably won't address let alone resolve this side of a GE.

    How is Reform UK walking a line on immigration? They've made net zero immigration the central plank of their policies.
    That may be true but I think the party has elements who would support limited immigration on economic grounds.

    The other nuance to this observer is whether they mean literally "one in one out" or whether it's more about a severe clampdown on illegal migration (the aim being its elimination) and far more restrictive conditions on legal migration.
    They've said what their policy is. It is for net zero immigration (legal or "illegal"). It's not quite one in one out. You don't sit waiting to be let in until someone leaves, but it's effectively one in one out.
    It isn't really - there's a bit of wiggle room around the numbers - but I appreciate where the policy is going.

    Presumably the hope of Conservative strategists is Rwanda will be seen to have an effect and that will draw Reform supporters back - the problem is if it doesn't work or the perception is it isn't working, what then?
    Depends why Con-to-Ref sayers switched.

    Crudely, is the number of small boat assylum seekers the reason or the justification? Same for total net migration. Yes, there are undoubtedly voters who can be wooed back by tough actions on border control, if they can be made to work. (Let's see on that one.)

    But for at least some Reform voters, it's more visceral. They just don't like RIshi. Doesn't matter why that is so, it just is. Trying to get them back into the tory column through policy is unlikely to work. They might not like Starmer either, but that's not the point. They really dislike Rishi.

    So in London, Susan Hall was able to woo a decent slice of that vote. Howard Cox ended up on 3% in the Mayoral election, against 7% in the Assembly constituencies and 6% for the list. But Khan was (and is) seen as an effective bogeyman, with a flagship policy to be sunk. And Hall is more than a bit Reform-y herself. In the West Midlands, the RefUK candidate got 6%; Andy Street didn't need that many more of those votes to have won.

    In the other places where Reform stood, they got some decent minor party shares. 11% in the East Midlands, 8% in Greater Manchester, 9% in the North East, 15% for the Derbyshire PCC, 14% for the Linconshire PCC.

    So there is a Reform vote out there. Not as much as the polls are saying, but still chunky. And some of it can probably be enticed back into the Conservative fold, but nowhere near all of it. A million miles from a seat-winning score, which is why Farage is likely to be washing his hair when the election is called. But enough (high single figures?) to cause the Conservatives a lot of trouble. Especially when the anti-Conservative vote on the cenre-left looks so damn efficient.
    All of those are answers to different questions though.
    For example. Nobody with a functional braincell thought Burnham would lose. So you're free to "waste" your vote.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    Olly said:

    kle4 said:

    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Seems like it was plenty effective, and as for safe, over 80 deaths if so is tragic, but the results from the vaccination programme speak for themselves that thousands of lives appear to have been saved. Not having to hand other options, the right choice was made. Well done to the government on this one.

    Oakeshott and others are not going to get apologies, because it still seems to have been safer than not having the mass vaccination campaign. So they can be pretend heroes all they like.
    Perception is everything is life. The perception is turning to the jabs are dangerous. Thats a massive change.
    No, it isn’t. One of the first vaccines against a dangerous and novel virus has been withdrawn after saving many lives. This has no bearing on the other vaccines, but you are so stupid you don’t know how vaccines work, or understand drug/vaccine safety profiles.
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    This from Michelle Dewbury.

    To all of you who insisted EVERYONE MUST have these vaccines, or else…Do you feel bad now?

    I’ll never forget people DEMANDING that others had these jabs, else essentially be removed from public interactions including ability to earn a living and/or socialise etc

    Folk even wanted to remove healthcare from those who made a choice that the vaccine wasn’t right for them… They vilified them, mocked them, abused them and smeared them.

    It was absolute

    https://x.com/MichelleDewbs/status/1787966173801287681
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,110
    Olly said:

    This from Michelle Dewbury.

    To all of you who insisted EVERYONE MUST have these vaccines, or else…Do you feel bad now?

    I’ll never forget people DEMANDING that others had these jabs, else essentially be removed from public interactions including ability to earn a living and/or socialise etc

    Folk even wanted to remove healthcare from those who made a choice that the vaccine wasn’t right for them… They vilified them, mocked them, abused them and smeared them.

    It was absolute

    https://x.com/MichelleDewbs/status/1787966173801287681

    So they would prefer no one was vaccinated?

    What are their opinion of vaccines for other things, like Polio?
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,579
    edited May 7
    There was too much groupthink during the Covid 19 crisis, particularly with regard to lockdowns and closing schools imo. I don't agree with criticisms of the vaccines though.
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    Joe Rogan speaks.


    Liz Churchill
    @liz_churchill10
    ·
    1m
    “Chris Cuomo came out and said he's got a vaccine injury. That guy was pushing that shit on TV forever...people who say they were injured by the ‘Covid Vaccines’ believe their cases have been ignored. Well they have. They’ve been ignored…” -Joe Roga

    https://x.com/liz_churchill10/status/1787967761441775978
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42
    RobD said:

    Olly said:

    This from Michelle Dewbury.

    To all of you who insisted EVERYONE MUST have these vaccines, or else…Do you feel bad now?

    I’ll never forget people DEMANDING that others had these jabs, else essentially be removed from public interactions including ability to earn a living and/or socialise etc

    Folk even wanted to remove healthcare from those who made a choice that the vaccine wasn’t right for them… They vilified them, mocked them, abused them and smeared them.

    It was absolute

    https://x.com/MichelleDewbs/status/1787966173801287681

    So they would prefer no one was vaccinated?

    What are their opinion of vaccines for other things, like Polio?
    Like i say perception is everything. The general public arent interested in science and respond to emotion. For vaccines this is bad news.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    Olly said:

    Joe Rogan speaks.


    Liz Churchill
    @liz_churchill10
    ·
    1m
    “Chris Cuomo came out and said he's got a vaccine injury. That guy was pushing that shit on TV forever...people who say they were injured by the ‘Covid Vaccines’ believe their cases have been ignored. Well they have. They’ve been ignored…” -Joe Roga

    https://x.com/liz_churchill10/status/1787967761441775978

    Why don’t you want to talk science? Is it because you can’t?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,681
    Olly said:

    RobD said:

    Olly said:

    This from Michelle Dewbury.

    To all of you who insisted EVERYONE MUST have these vaccines, or else…Do you feel bad now?

    I’ll never forget people DEMANDING that others had these jabs, else essentially be removed from public interactions including ability to earn a living and/or socialise etc

    Folk even wanted to remove healthcare from those who made a choice that the vaccine wasn’t right for them… They vilified them, mocked them, abused them and smeared them.

    It was absolute

    https://x.com/MichelleDewbs/status/1787966173801287681

    So they would prefer no one was vaccinated?

    What are their opinion of vaccines for other things, like Polio?
    Like i say perception is everything. The general public arent interested in science and respond to emotion. For vaccines this is bad news.
    Nope.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,739
    edited May 7
    Olly said:

    Joe Rogan speaks.


    Liz Churchill
    @liz_churchill10
    ·
    1m
    “Chris Cuomo came out and said he's got a vaccine injury. That guy was pushing that shit on TV forever...people who say they were injured by the ‘Covid Vaccines’ believe their cases have been ignored. Well they have. They’ve been ignored…” -Joe Roga

    https://x.com/liz_churchill10/status/1787967761441775978

    So now we've got Joe Rogan, to add to Dan Wootton, Isabel Oakeshott and Michelle Dewberry. Formidable.

    Any chance of somebody inventing a vaccine against far-right idiocy?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    How long after having the AZ jab before you are in the clear blood clot wise? I had a terrible reaction to mine, literally thought I was a goner that night.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120

    Olly said:

    Joe Rogan speaks.


    Liz Churchill
    @liz_churchill10
    ·
    1m
    “Chris Cuomo came out and said he's got a vaccine injury. That guy was pushing that shit on TV forever...people who say they were injured by the ‘Covid Vaccines’ believe their cases have been ignored. Well they have. They’ve been ignored…” -Joe Roga

    https://x.com/liz_churchill10/status/1787967761441775978

    Why don’t you want to talk science? Is it because you can’t?
    He’s going to get buried at the Ukraine/Republic of China border
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,110
    isam said:

    How long after having the AZ jab before you are in the clear blood clot wise? I had a terrible reaction to mine, literally thought I was a goner that night.

    Within a couple of weeks:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood-platelets
  • Options
    OllyOlly Posts: 42

    Olly said:

    Joe Rogan speaks.


    Liz Churchill
    @liz_churchill10
    ·
    1m
    “Chris Cuomo came out and said he's got a vaccine injury. That guy was pushing that shit on TV forever...people who say they were injured by the ‘Covid Vaccines’ believe their cases have been ignored. Well they have. They’ve been ignored…” -Joe Roga

    https://x.com/liz_churchill10/status/1787967761441775978

    So now we've got Joe Rogan, to add to Dan Wootton, Isabel Oakeshott and Michelle Dewberry. Formidable.

    Any chance of somebody inventing a vaccine against far-right idiocy?
    Doesnt matter what the science is now. Oerception is everything. Trust in the medical establishment has been lost.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,164

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
    Presumably encrypted smoke signals?
    Encrypted smoke signals indeed.

    You can keep the database separate and just send the monthly extract with the absolute minimum data to make the payments via your non air-gapped network.

    No need to store anything.


    There was clearly an assessment that this data wasn't valuable.
    It's impossible to say how the system could have been designed without knowing what the requirements are. How does the data get into the database in the first place, what kind of maintenance does it need, does it need to be queried to be updated, who does it need to be sent to and how often etc etc.
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    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,042
    Seeing as it's doing the rounds on twitter/x :

    Head of Cyber Security for HM Treasury £57k:

    https://twitter.com/Jontafkasi/status/1641194628568186889

    Head of cyber security for a trading company no-one has ever heard of, £450k:

    https://twitter.com/Jontafkasi/status/1641193954778697728?t=fatiYUUcE3cN42bDrSHnGw

    I'm sure this has nothing to do with the skills/quality of people in senior civil service posts.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760

    Why has Dune 2 hit streaming so quickly, I thought it was supposed to be good?

    Which sand worm among you flagged this question?
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,012

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Can someone please explain whose a bit more tech savvy. Given the security concerns . Why would you have the MOD payroll on an an external network ?

    I'll await a tech explanation too, but would you trust the MOD to look after something?
    Should have been on an air-gapped network, no matter who was looking after it.
    How would you communicate payroll to all the banks to actually make payroll payments, if the information was on an air-gapped network?
    Smoke signals.
    Presumably encrypted smoke signals?
    Encrypted smoke signals indeed.

    You can keep the database separate and just send the monthly extract with the absolute minimum data to make the payments via your non air-gapped network.

    No need to store anything.


    There was clearly an assessment that this data wasn't valuable.
    It's impossible to say how the system could have been designed without knowing what the requirements are. How does the data get into the database in the first place, what kind of maintenance does it need, does it need to be queried to be updated, who does it need to be sent to and how often etc etc.
    That's fair enough. I haven't seen the requirements.

    But there are usually alternative solutions.

    They could always have paid in cash... :smile:
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 7
    RobD said:

    isam said:

    How long after having the AZ jab before you are in the clear blood clot wise? I had a terrible reaction to mine, literally thought I was a goner that night.

    Within a couple of weeks:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood-platelets
    I’m out of the woods!!

    Genuinely though, something messed me up badly with that first jab. It was the worst I have ever felt by a huge margin
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,173
    edited May 7
    I see more idiocy from the government and its new “ let’s help identity fraud “ Bill .

    Failing to explain that the new rules will effectively mean everyone who uses social media having to hand over their ID details to organizations that can’t be relied on to protect them.


  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,164

    The man child has posted


    I don’t know much about the case, but why do the details of the supposed ‘encounter’ matter? Surely it’s about the money paid or not paid? Isn’t the use of her testimony just about embarrassing Trump?
    So apparently the judge has also been trying to stop her giving too much salacious detail. However the reason this testimony is allowed is because the defence is claiming that he's never met her, the payments to Cohen were what they said on the tin and the entire thing is made up. If you want to know whether she's lying about what she says about the hush money deal, it helps to have a take on whether she's lying about everything else.
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    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,752
    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Can you name these 80 people please, and tell me what it says they died of, and how old they were?
    And how long after the vaccine they died?

    I mean, we can link anything to anything given enough time.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,685
    RobD said:

    .

    Olly said:

    kle4 said:

    Olly said:

    Heres what dan wooton has to say.

    BREAKING: AstraZeneca is withdrawing its Covid jab WORLDWIDE.
    It's not safe enough now for anyone because of TTS side effects connected to over 80 deaths in the UK alone.
    Let's be honest, this vaccine was NEVER safe and effective.
    We were lied to.
    Where is the MSM?

    https://x.com/danwootton/status/1787949096587681973

    Seems like it was plenty effective, and as for safe, over 80 deaths if so is tragic, but the results from the vaccination programme speak for themselves that thousands of lives appear to have been saved. Not having to hand other options, the right choice was made. Well done to the government on this one.

    Oakeshott and others are not going to get apologies, because it still seems to have been safer than not having the mass vaccination campaign. So they can be pretend heroes all they like.
    Lol. Well you are a civil servant. Regardless though this announcement will likely spook the general public and damage confidence in vaccines in general.
    Far far more damage is done by the ignorant tweets you’ve posted, and anti-vaxxer bollocks in general.
    To quote Boney M. "Oh those Russians".

    Although smarter than your usual Saturday morning trollski.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,752
    edited May 7
    Olly said:

    This from Michelle Dewbury.

    To all of you who insisted EVERYONE MUST have these vaccines, or else…Do you feel bad now?

    I’ll never forget people DEMANDING that others had these jabs, else essentially be removed from public interactions including ability to earn a living and/or socialise etc

    Folk even wanted to remove healthcare from those who made a choice that the vaccine wasn’t right for them… They vilified them, mocked them, abused them and smeared them.

    It was absolute

    https://x.com/MichelleDewbs/status/1787966173801287681

    None of these things happened. Not here, and not in the United States either.
    The vaccine (any of them) has never been compulsory, and excepting a brief six months or so having to show a Covid passport to get to the theatre, I wasn't asked to prove my status anywhere.

    So file that as 'things that didn't happen'.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,173
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    How long after having the AZ jab before you are in the clear blood clot wise? I had a terrible reaction to mine, literally thought I was a goner that night.

    Within a couple of weeks:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood-platelets
    I’m out of the woods!!

    Genuinely though, something messed me up badly with that first jab. It was the worst I have ever felt by a huge margin
    I know quite a few people who had a very bad reaction to AZ , mainly on the first dose . Pfizer wasn’t perfect but it had a much lower incidence of severe side effects.

  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,752
    Olly said:

    RobD said:

    Olly said:

    This from Michelle Dewbury.

    To all of you who insisted EVERYONE MUST have these vaccines, or else…Do you feel bad now?

    I’ll never forget people DEMANDING that others had these jabs, else essentially be removed from public interactions including ability to earn a living and/or socialise etc

    Folk even wanted to remove healthcare from those who made a choice that the vaccine wasn’t right for them… They vilified them, mocked them, abused them and smeared them.

    It was absolute

    https://x.com/MichelleDewbs/status/1787966173801287681

    So they would prefer no one was vaccinated?

    What are their opinion of vaccines for other things, like Polio?
    Like i say perception is everything. The general public arent interested in science and respond to emotion. For vaccines this is bad news.
    These vaccines are so bad, it takes six months, a year, two years, three years... no wait.... look, just accept it. Everyone who takes a vaccine will be dead in 100 years.

    The libs are owned!
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,505

    Olly said:

    This from Michelle Dewbury.

    To all of you who insisted EVERYONE MUST have these vaccines, or else…Do you feel bad now?

    I’ll never forget people DEMANDING that others had these jabs, else essentially be removed from public interactions including ability to earn a living and/or socialise etc

    Folk even wanted to remove healthcare from those who made a choice that the vaccine wasn’t right for them… They vilified them, mocked them, abused them and smeared them.

    It was absolute

    https://x.com/MichelleDewbs/status/1787966173801287681

    None of these things happened. Not here, and not in the United States either.
    The vaccine (any of them) has never been compulsory, and excepting a brief six months or so having to show a Covid passport to get to the theatre, I wasn't asked to prove my status anywhere.

    So file that as 'things that didn't happen'.
    It was compulsory for anyone who needed to travel internationally and NHS workers did get sacked for refusing the vaccination.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 7
    nico679 said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    How long after having the AZ jab before you are in the clear blood clot wise? I had a terrible reaction to mine, literally thought I was a goner that night.

    Within a couple of weeks:

    https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-ema-finds-possible-link-very-rare-cases-unusual-blood-clots-low-blood-platelets
    I’m out of the woods!!

    Genuinely though, something messed me up badly with that first jab. It was the worst I have ever felt by a huge margin
    I know quite a few people who had a very bad reaction to AZ , mainly on the first dose . Pfizer wasn’t perfect but it had a much lower incidence of severe side effects.

    To give some context, I’m lucky that I’ve never been really ill, touch wood, so my exposure to feeling rough is a bit low. Never had to go to hospital except for stitches and detached retinas
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,289

    Why has Dune 2 hit streaming so quickly, I thought it was supposed to be good?

    Which sand worm among you flagged this question?
    what I want to know about that movie is how they get OFF the giant sand worms
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120

    Olly said:

    RobD said:

    Olly said:

    This from Michelle Dewbury.

    To all of you who insisted EVERYONE MUST have these vaccines, or else…Do you feel bad now?

    I’ll never forget people DEMANDING that others had these jabs, else essentially be removed from public interactions including ability to earn a living and/or socialise etc

    Folk even wanted to remove healthcare from those who made a choice that the vaccine wasn’t right for them… They vilified them, mocked them, abused them and smeared them.

    It was absolute

    https://x.com/MichelleDewbs/status/1787966173801287681

    So they would prefer no one was vaccinated?

    What are their opinion of vaccines for other things, like Polio?
    Like i say perception is everything. The general public arent interested in science and respond to emotion. For vaccines this is bad news.
    These vaccines are so bad, it takes six months, a year, two years, three years... no wait.... look, just accept it. Everyone who takes a vaccine will be dead in 100 years.

    The libs are owned!
    Perception is indeed important


  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,120
    Tres said:

    Why has Dune 2 hit streaming so quickly, I thought it was supposed to be good?

    Which sand worm among you flagged this question?
    what I want to know about that movie is how they get OFF the giant sand worms
    When they release the hooks, the poor harried sand worm dives into the sand. So you kinda jump off backwards.

    It is quite clear that Shaddam IV made a big mistake on relying on 10 legions of Sardaukar. Ok, sociopathic religious fanatics trained to be the best warriors in the galaxy. But he really should have called in the RSPCA.
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