If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere wellIt were done quickly – politicalbetting.com

System · April 29

If it were done when ’tis done, then ’twere wellIt were done quickly – politicalbetting.com

Times Scotland: Yousaf set to resign as survival hopes fade #TomorrowsPapersToday pic.twitter.com/uyuikysy5M

DecrepiterJohnL · April 29

Bit of a mess, really. I'm staying out.

DecrepiterJohnL · April 29

The main reason for staying out is that since Yousaf dug this hole for no very good reason that I can see, there is no obvious replacement who can stabilise the Scottish government's position. All the parties and SNP factions have solid reasons for not supporting each other.

DavidL · April 29

As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?

CarlottaVance · April 29

“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”

Create your own:

https://nosweatshakespeare.com/resources/shakespeare-insults/

TheScreamingEagles · April 29

DecrepiterJohnL said:
The main reason for staying out is that since Yousaf dug this hole for no very good reason that I can see, there is no obvious replacement who can stabilise the Scottish government's position. All the parties and SNP factions have solid reasons for not supporting each other.

Kate Forbes read History at Cambridge, that screams awesomeness, be afraid Unionists if she becomes leader.

TheScreamingEagles · April 29

CarlottaVance said:
“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”

Hurrah, somebody spotted my subtle Shakespeare reference.

DavidL · April 29

DecrepiterJohnL said:
The main reason for staying out is that since Yousaf dug this hole for no very good reason that I can see, there is no obvious replacement who can stabilise the Scottish government's position. All the parties and SNP factions have solid reasons for not supporting each other.

But they also have good reasons, namely power, the money that flows from that and some control of the narrative whilst in government. There are rumours that Forbes, for example, may sit this one out and get behind a continuity candidate that the Greens can live with, recognising that it cannot be herself.

TheScreamingEagles · April 29

My one wish is that the next SNP leader after Salmond, Sturgeon, and the MSP for Pollok has a fishy name or represents a fishy sounding constituency.

DecrepiterJohnL · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
The main reason for staying out is that since Yousaf dug this hole for no very good reason that I can see, there is no obvious replacement who can stabilise the Scottish government's position. All the parties and SNP factions have solid reasons for not supporting each other.
Kate Forbes read History at Cambridge, that screams awesomeness, be afraid Unionists if she becomes leader.

Guy Burgess read History at Cambridge. He is now best known for reinforcing Winston Churchill's resolve during the Gathering Storm, and having an enormous thingy. (Oh, and whatever they were discussing at the end of the last thread.)

ETA and as I understand it, Kate Forbes is not a unifying figure.

TheScreamingEagles · April 29

This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

Nigelb · April 29

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Bit of a mess, really. I'm staying out.

As will I.

So something about renewables instead.

We had a brief discussion a couple of days back about the cost/benefit of a large scale battery plant being built, and whether it was economic.
I noted briefly that its value was considerably more than just the cost per kW of the electricity it stores and then provides.

Here's an article about the world's largest flywheel, recently constructed in Ireland. Its cost per kW is considerable greater than that for batteries - but it's even better providing grid inertia (ie dealing with instantaneous grid instabilities - mismatches between supply and demand).
https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/home/stories/irelands-great-grid-stabilizer.html

A large battery storage plant will have greater storage capacity, but probably can't provide the same instantaneous response.

But both types of management will be needed to manage the grid as we increase the percentage of renewables - and to allow us to use a greater proportion of the (eg wind) energy generated at source.

TheScreamingEagles · April 29

DecrepiterJohnL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:
The main reason for staying out is that since Yousaf dug this hole for no very good reason that I can see, there is no obvious replacement who can stabilise the Scottish government's position. All the parties and SNP factions have solid reasons for not supporting each other.
Kate Forbes read History at Cambridge, that screams awesomeness, be afraid Unionists if she becomes leader.
Guy Burgess read History at Cambridge. He is now best known for reinforcing Winston Churchill's resolve during the Gathering Storm, and having an enormous thingy. (Oh, and whatever they were discussing at the end of the last thread.)

ETA and as I understand it, Kate Forbes is not a unifying figure.

Can we pretend the comments on the last thread never happened.

I am amazed some PBers have ever got laid let alone sired issue.

DecrepiterJohnL · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

China and David Cameron agree that foreign aid brings soft power. It is small-minded to have chopped the DfID budget and then the department itself.

Stuartinromford · April 29

CarlottaVance said:
“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”

Oh God, is Boris back in the news again?

(There's a neat essay to be written on the parallels between Brexit Conservatism and the SNP. Rising at the same time, responding to the same sense of sticking it to the system. Both a mess of internal contradictions, neither that bothered at how to make the project work. Succeeding because a charismatic leader was able to be a projection screen, despite being [REDACTED]. And once a sincere nonentity took over, it rather fell apart.

Important difference is that BrexCons got their project over the line in time, whereas the SNP didn't. I'm not sure this is good news for BrexCons.)

Leon · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

That is disturbing. Also: wow. Djibouti is completely absorbed. It is a protectorate and a dependency. The Chinese have built a Stealth Empire. Cf Sri Lanka

The Indian Ocean is theirs, as it was once Britain’s

CarlottaVance · April 29

Ms Cherry is, by a considerable distance, the best advert for an independent Scotland that the Yes movement possesses.

Yet she was marginalised by her party and relegated to the backbenches simply for stating the scientific truth – shared by the overwhelming majority of reasonably-minded Scots – that trans women are men.

What made this image so poignant was that Ms Cherry was surrounded by empty chairs. Not one of her party colleagues had chosen to support their colleague deliver her disquisition. The principle reason for their absence is rooted in the cowardice, misogyny and lesbophobia which has hollowed out the SNP in the Sturgeon/Yousaf era.

It exposed them as supine frauds. They claim to be supportive of gay and lesbian rights, but only so long as these are secondary to the rights of men who decide they want to be women. Ms Cherry rejects this lie and is thus considered by her party to be the wrong type of lesbian. Shame on them.

In standing up for women’s and lesbian rights Ms Cherry has endured a campaign of hostility and intimidation orchestrated by the SNP leadership.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/24283857.joanna-cherrys-top-form-commons-lesbian-visibility-speech/

Nigelb · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

Get used to the new multipolar world.

China is of course entirely self interested, and will take advantage of them (as the west has also done), but from the POV of developing countries, it can now seem a more attractive option than the west.

Its technology is cheaper (and in the case of renewables, superior), and it has very deep pockets.

RochdalePioneers · April 29

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?

Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!

ToryJim · April 29

For 'tis the sport to have the enginer
Hoist with his own petard; and 't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon.

One suspects this is the type of sentiment prevailing in Scottish Green circles presently.

eek · April 29

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!

+1 - the SNP need a Green friendly candidate because the other option is an Alba friendly candidate (and that isn't an option for the insane requests that were made).

So it comes down to the SNP picking the most electorally friendly candidate because there is now an election coming sooner rather than later.

Second problem is that I suspect the SNP have zero money to fight an election with...

Ratters · April 29

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!

Could the SNP not shift to the centre and try to get the support of the Lib Dem MSPs?

I appreciate no overlap in views on independence, but it seems safe to say no one really wants to call a referendum right now given the mess the SNP has found itself in recently. Better wait until new independence leadership has been established that warrants the name.

CarlottaVance · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:
My one wish is that the next SNP leader after Salmond, Sturgeon, and the MSP for Pollok has a fishy name or represents a fishy sounding constituency.

I suppose Moray & Richard Lochhead would be your best bets.....with Midlothian North & Musselburgh, Colin Beattie next....

JosiasJessop · April 29

DecrepiterJohnL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
China and David Cameron agree that foreign aid brings soft power. It is small-minded to have chopped the DfID budget and then the department itself.

I am a great fan of the foreign aid budget, and have sometimes felt like a lone voice in praising it on here!

Sandpit · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

That China has been slowly buying up huge swathes of Africa to do its bidding, over the last couple of decades, really shouldn’t be news to anyone paying attention to these things.

The rise of China is the biggest story of the next two decades, and the West seems totally flat-footed about how to respond.

Theuniondivvie · April 29

Stuartinromford said:

CarlottaVance said:
“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”
Oh God, is Boris back in the news again?

(There's a neat essay to be written on the parallels between Brexit Conservatism and the SNP. Rising at the same time, responding to the same sense of sticking it to the system. Both a mess of internal contradictions, neither that bothered at how to make the project work. Succeeding because a charismatic leader was able to be a projection screen, despite being [REDACTED]. And once a sincere nonentity took over, it rather fell apart.

Important difference is that BrexCons got their project over the line in time, whereas the SNP didn't. I'm not sure this is good news for BrexCons.)

At least it looks like Scottish politics and the SNP is not going to dance to the tune of an unelected bombast. English politics, the Tories and Farage otoh…

Morris_Dancer · April 29

Good morning, everyone.

Dijibouti[sp]: tons of countries have bases there (weirdly, we don't). China's relatively recent, the US, Italians, French, and others all have military bases. That's not to say China isn't buying its way to influence or using debt traps, but Dijibouti is in perhaps a unique position for an African nation.

Luckyguy1983 · April 29

Ratters said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!
Could the SNP not shift to the centre and try to get the support of the Lib Dem MSPs?

I appreciate no overlap in views on independence, but it seems safe to say no one really wants to call a referendum right now given the mess the SNP has found itself in recently. Better wait until new independence leadership has been established that warrants the name.

I don't see why they can't be a minority Government and propose laws with wide enough appeal to get MSPs to vote for them. I am sure there's a constitutional reason.

Scott_xP · April 29

@paulhutcheon

NEW: Humza Yousaf will resign today as First Minister ahead of a no confidence vote in his leadership, according to a senior party source.

2) The insider said he wants former deputy first minister John Swinney to take over.

Theuniondivvie · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:
My one wish is that the next SNP leader after Salmond, Sturgeon, and the MSP for Pollok has a fishy name or represents a fishy sounding constituency.

Marie Gougeon it is then.
Though my angler friends don’t rate her as rural affairs minister (the post Kate Forbes was too precious for).

ToryJim · April 29

Scott_xP said:
@paulhutcheon

NEW: Humza Yousaf will resign today as First Minister ahead of a no confidence vote in his leadership, according to a senior party source.

2) The insider said he wants former deputy first minister John Swinney to take over.

The cup of schadenfreude overfloweth

Nigelb · April 29

JosiasJessop said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
China and David Cameron agree that foreign aid brings soft power. It is small-minded to have chopped the DfID budget and then the department itself.
I am a great fan of the foreign aid budget, and have sometimes felt like a lone voice in praising it on here!

Not exactly lone.
But it's been Tory orthodoxy for some time to cut it.

boulay · April 29

Could any of our Scottish readers help? On R4 on Saturday and this morning the two Scottish reporters have referred to Alec Salmond’s party as “Alaba” and the other reporters pronounced as Alba. I thought it was Alba so I’m a bit confused if it’s just a quirk of Scottish spelling or something else.

ydoethur · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:
“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”
Hurrah, somebody spotted my subtle Shakespeare reference.

Then comes my fit again. I had else been perfect,
Whole as the marble, founded as the rock,
As broad and general as the casing air.
But now I am cabined, cribbed, confined, bound in
To saucy doubts and fears...
There the grown serpent lies. The worm that’s fled
Hath nature that in time will venom breed.

(I'm disappointed other posters tried to sidetrack us with extracts from Hamlet and Merchant of Venice. They should, like Coriolanus, have kept a gracious silence.)

RochdalePioneers · April 29

Ratters said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!
Could the SNP not shift to the centre and try to get the support of the Lib Dem MSPs?

I appreciate no overlap in views on independence, but it seems safe to say no one really wants to call a referendum right now given the mess the SNP has found itself in recently. Better wait until new independence leadership has been established that warrants the name.

Nope. It’s in our interest- and arguably the country’s interest - for there to be an early election.

ydoethur · April 29

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
My one wish is that the next SNP leader after Salmond, Sturgeon, and the MSP for Pollok has a fishy name or represents a fishy sounding constituency.
Marie Gougeon it is then.
Though my angler friends don’t rate her as rural affairs minister (the post Kate Forbes was too precious for).

They'd be making a rod for their own backers.

RochdalePioneers · April 29

boulay said:
Could any of our Scottish readers help? On R4 on Saturday and this morning the two Scottish reporters have referred to Alec Salmond’s party as “Alaba” and the other reporters pronounced as Alba. I thought it was Alba so I’m a bit confused if it’s just a quirk of Scottish spelling or something else.

Pronounced “Alapa”

Scott_xP · April 29

https://x.com/ScotNatWatch/status/1784843040894435436

Stuartinromford · April 29

Luckyguy1983 said:

Ratters said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!
Could the SNP not shift to the centre and try to get the support of the Lib Dem MSPs?

I appreciate no overlap in views on independence, but it seems safe to say no one really wants to call a referendum right now given the mess the SNP has found itself in recently. Better wait until new independence leadership has been established that warrants the name.
I don't see why they can't be a minority Government and propose laws with wide enough appeal to get MSPs to vote for them. I am sure there's a constitutional reason.

In general terms, that's fine until he needs to get a budget through or survive a vote of confidence.

Salmond and Sturgeon had the poltical smarts to survive with a deal here, a concession there and never annoying everyone simultaneously.

Yousaf, bless him, doesn't.

Alanbrooke · April 29

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
That China has been slowly buying up huge swathes of Africa to do its bidding, over the last couple of decades, really shouldn’t be news to anyone paying attention to these things.

The rise of China is the biggest story of the next two decades, and the West seems totally flat-footed about how to respond.

A good friend of mine who lived in Africa described the Africans as the biggest money grabbing capitalists on earth, he was highly sceptical the Chinese would ever get their money back.

Theuniondivvie · April 29

boulay said:
Could any of our Scottish readers help? On R4 on Saturday and this morning the two Scottish reporters have referred to Alec Salmond’s party as “Alaba” and the other reporters pronounced as Alba. I thought it was Alba so I’m a bit confused if it’s just a quirk of Scottish spelling or something else.

Gaelic pronunciation is Alepa. Since it’s the Gaelic word for Scotland I guess that’s the correct one.

ydoethur · April 29

Scott_xP said:
https://x.com/ScotNatWatch/status/1784843040894435436

Is it true that Yousaf earns more than Sunak?

If so, that's utterly ridiculous.

I'm no starry-eyed admirer of our politicians but if we're paying the PM so little no wonder we struggle to attract anyone with actual talent.

(Although plenty of firms pay millions and still can't get anyone good enough to deal with the problems their size cause.)

TOPPING · April 29

As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

Big_G_NorthWales · April 29

Good morning

I just cannot see any way out for Yousaf than resignation and what follows next is anyone's guess

This may trigger some but it does seem the Irish are seeking legislation to return asylum seekers to UK who are currently crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland citing the Rwanda policy and UK is not a safe country

Meetings are to take place between Irish and UK officials but UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK

This is developing into an Irish - UK - France - EU issue and let's hope that it sees joint action to stop the boats and further cooperation across Europe and UK in addressing the wider problem of asylum seekers

I assume flights to Rwanda will commence, but it would be an excellent outcome if the deterrent effect of the Rwanda programme sees joint cooperation on this problem and makes the Rwanda scheme unnecessary

numbertwelve · April 29

If it is true and Humza is going, it is largely as a result of the way he behaved last week. I can easily see a different scenario where he either gave a vote to his members on Bute House continuing or waited for the outcome of the vote from the Greens and separated amicably. He’d then have probably been able to run a minority government on issue-by-issue.

Instead he decided to unceremoniously sack them and humiliate them, and then attacked every other party in the chamber afterwards.

FWIW, I don’t like the Scottish Greens one iota, but there is much to be said for basic courtesy in politics and it is the reason for his downfall.

Alanbrooke · April 29

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.

Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.

Scott_xP · April 29

numbertwelve said:
If it is true and Humza is going, it is largely as a result of the way he behaved last week.

Yes, he FAFOed, and will now reap the rewards...

LostPassword · April 29

Luckyguy1983 said:

Ratters said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!
Could the SNP not shift to the centre and try to get the support of the Lib Dem MSPs?

I appreciate no overlap in views on independence, but it seems safe to say no one really wants to call a referendum right now given the mess the SNP has found itself in recently. Better wait until new independence leadership has been established that warrants the name.
I don't see why they can't be a minority Government and propose laws with wide enough appeal to get MSPs to vote for them. I am sure there's a constitutional reason.

Assuming Yousaf goes, the SNP would need to win a vote on a replacement FM, so they'd need to persuade one of the other parties to vote for their candidates, or to abstain.

If they convinced another party to tolerate them continuing as a minority by abstaining then that would happen.

Scott_xP · April 29

@BrianSpanner1

The Kelvin Hall Putsch.

The funniest thing you’ll read today.

The inside story of the Greens in meltdown as rebels demand leaders go | The Herald

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24283157.inside-story-green-rebels-want-rid-leadership/

Nigelb · April 29

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
That China has been slowly buying up huge swathes of Africa to do its bidding, over the last couple of decades, really shouldn’t be news to anyone paying attention to these things.

The rise of China is the biggest story of the next two decades, and the West seems totally flat-footed about how to respond.

Probably because we spent half a century with Russian communism (and its aftermath) as our principal competitors in developing countries, while China looked inward.

Djibouti, incidentally, has a number of foreign naval bases.
https://www.pressenza.com/2023/12/close-the-foreign-bases-in-djibouti/
..Within this space, we can find numerous military bases belonging to France, China, the United States, Japan, Germany, Spain, and Italy, including:

U.S.: Camp Lemonnier, (4,000 troops),
France and Spain: Les forces françaises stationnées à Djibouti, (1,500 troops),
China: People’s Liberation Army Support Base, (1,500 troops with room for 10,000),
Japan: “Self-Defense” Force Base,
Italy: Base militare italiana di supporto “Amedeo Guillet,”
France, U.S., Japan, and Italy: Djibouti–Ambouli International Airport,
France, U.S., and Germany: Chabelley Airfield,
Saudi Arabia: reportedly building a base..

numbertwelve · April 29

LostPassword said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Ratters said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!
Could the SNP not shift to the centre and try to get the support of the Lib Dem MSPs?

I appreciate no overlap in views on independence, but it seems safe to say no one really wants to call a referendum right now given the mess the SNP has found itself in recently. Better wait until new independence leadership has been established that warrants the name.
I don't see why they can't be a minority Government and propose laws with wide enough appeal to get MSPs to vote for them. I am sure there's a constitutional reason.
Assuming Yousaf goes, the SNP would need to win a vote on a replacement FM, so they'd need to persuade one of the other parties to vote for their candidates, or to abstain.

If they convinced another party to tolerate them continuing as a minority by abstaining then that would happen.

I don’t think they’ll persuade Labour, but I suspect they’ll have a decent shout with the others. The only ones who wouldn’t be too bothered with an election right now are the Labour Party. The others aren’t likely to really want one no matter what they are saying in public. Easy to see the LDs and Tories sitting on their hands and saying they will give the new leader a chance.

Scott_xP · April 29

@severincarrell

Someone has edited Humza Yousaf's Wikipedia profile to have him quitting as first minister today...

Nigelb · April 29

ydoethur said:

Scott_xP said:
https://x.com/ScotNatWatch/status/1784843040894435436
Is it true that Yousaf earns more than Sunak?

If so, that's utterly ridiculous.

I'm no starry-eyed admirer of our politicians but if we're paying the PM so little no wonder we struggle to attract anyone with actual talent.

(Although plenty of firms pay millions and still can't get anyone good enough to deal with the problems their size cause.)

Well paying more than us doesn't seem to have helped Scotland much.

Scott_xP · April 29

@StephenCVGraham

I hope Humza's resignation speech will be an hour-long lecture on how great he is, like Sturgeon's was.

Nigelb · April 29

Alanbrooke said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
That China has been slowly buying up huge swathes of Africa to do its bidding, over the last couple of decades, really shouldn’t be news to anyone paying attention to these things.

The rise of China is the biggest story of the next two decades, and the West seems totally flat-footed about how to respond.
A good friend of mine who lived in Africa described the Africans as the biggest money grabbing capitalists on earth, he was highly sceptical the Chinese would ever get their money back.

Aren't they more interested in the minerals ?

megasaur · April 29

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Scott_xP said:
https://x.com/ScotNatWatch/status/1784843040894435436
Is it true that Yousaf earns more than Sunak?

If so, that's utterly ridiculous.

I'm no starry-eyed admirer of our politicians but if we're paying the PM so little no wonder we struggle to attract anyone with actual talent.

(Although plenty of firms pay millions and still can't get anyone good enough to deal with the problems their size cause.)
Well paying more than us doesn't seem to have helped Scotland much.

Paula Vennells was taking home more than either of them

LostPassword · April 29

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.

Nigelb · April 29

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:
“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”
Hurrah, somebody spotted my subtle Shakespeare reference.
Then comes my fit again. I had else been perfect,
Whole as the marble, founded as the rock,
As broad and general as the casing air.
But now I am cabined, cribbed, confined, bound in
To saucy doubts and fears...
There the grown serpent lies. The worm that’s fled
Hath nature that in time will venom breed.

(I'm disappointed other posters tried to sidetrack us with extracts from Hamlet and Merchant of Venice. They should, like Coriolanus, have kept a gracious silence.)

Of course - and Hamza should remain bloody, bold and resolute.

No_Offence_Alan · April 29

Ratters said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!
Could the SNP not shift to the centre and try to get the support of the Lib Dem MSPs?

I appreciate no overlap in views on independence, but it seems safe to say no one really wants to call a referendum right now given the mess the SNP has found itself in recently. Better wait until new independence leadership has been established that warrants the name.

They have tried that. ACH said No, let's have a Scottish election.

Scott_xP · April 29

And he's gone...

Stuartinromford · April 29

megasaur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Scott_xP said:
https://x.com/ScotNatWatch/status/1784843040894435436
Is it true that Yousaf earns more than Sunak?

If so, that's utterly ridiculous.

I'm no starry-eyed admirer of our politicians but if we're paying the PM so little no wonder we struggle to attract anyone with actual talent.

(Although plenty of firms pay millions and still can't get anyone good enough to deal with the problems their size cause.)
Well paying more than us doesn't seem to have helped Scotland much.
Paula Vennells was taking home more than either of them

Suspicion.

Only a fool would say that there's no correlation between renumeration and the quality of employee, but I suspect it's quite a lot weaker than the one most people carry in their mental map of how the world works.

ydoethur · April 29

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:
“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”
Hurrah, somebody spotted my subtle Shakespeare reference.
Then comes my fit again. I had else been perfect,
Whole as the marble, founded as the rock,
As broad and general as the casing air.
But now I am cabined, cribbed, confined, bound in
To saucy doubts and fears...
There the grown serpent lies. The worm that’s fled
Hath nature that in time will venom breed.

(I'm disappointed other posters tried to sidetrack us with extracts from Hamlet and Merchant of Venice. They should, like Coriolanus, have kept a gracious silence.)
Of course - and Hamza should remain bloody, bold and resolute.

With Yousaf it seems more 'dismiss me, enough.'

ydoethur · April 29

Scott_xP said:
And he's gone...

Anas Sarwar has spontaneously orgasmed.

Not just Starmer that's a lucky general for Labour!

No_Offence_Alan · April 29

numbertwelve said:

LostPassword said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Ratters said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:
As I said on the previous thread, Yousaf's resignation really changes nothing in itself. His now leaderless government would still face a VONC. He has to persuade the Greens that his sacrificial head is enough to persuade them to at least abstain in respect of Labour's VONC. I think that is possible. The Greens has made it clear that they cannot work with Yousaf who they say betrayed them. They have not ruled out with working with someone else.

The problem for the SNP is that the favourite for leader would be Forbes and her mutual contempt for the Greens is infamous. Are the Greens really going to get to have a decisive say in who is the SNP leader?
Putting it simply: yes. Yes they are.

The SNP has no majority. Any leader it proposes needs the confidence of some non-SNP MSPs. So anyone they want to propose needs to win the blessing of the Greens as well as their own.

Fun, isn’t it!
Could the SNP not shift to the centre and try to get the support of the Lib Dem MSPs?

I appreciate no overlap in views on independence, but it seems safe to say no one really wants to call a referendum right now given the mess the SNP has found itself in recently. Better wait until new independence leadership has been established that warrants the name.
I don't see why they can't be a minority Government and propose laws with wide enough appeal to get MSPs to vote for them. I am sure there's a constitutional reason.
Assuming Yousaf goes, the SNP would need to win a vote on a replacement FM, so they'd need to persuade one of the other parties to vote for their candidates, or to abstain.

If they convinced another party to tolerate them continuing as a minority by abstaining then that would happen.
I don’t think they’ll persuade Labour, but I suspect they’ll have a decent shout with the others. The only ones who wouldn’t be too bothered with an election right now are the Labour Party. The others aren’t likely to really want one no matter what they are saying in public. Easy to see the LDs and Tories sitting on their hands and saying they will give the new leader a chance.

No, the Tories and LDs won't sit on their hands. This mess is entirely of the SNP and Greens' making, let them sort it out.
Either the Greens bring down the government, and face the electoral backlash, or they don't, and the new SNP leader has to admit they are only there on Green sufferance.

Stuartinromford · April 29

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.

There's a real political danger on R-Day for the government. The right political response is obviously "no pleasure, grim necessity, but HMG is determined to end this cruel trade and to treat all people fairly..."

No bunting, no celebrations.

Is this Conservative Party going to be able to restrain themselves like that? Is Rishi going to be able to restrain himself like that?

Nigelb · April 29

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:
“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”
Hurrah, somebody spotted my subtle Shakespeare reference.
Then comes my fit again. I had else been perfect,
Whole as the marble, founded as the rock,
As broad and general as the casing air.
But now I am cabined, cribbed, confined, bound in
To saucy doubts and fears...
There the grown serpent lies. The worm that’s fled
Hath nature that in time will venom breed.

(I'm disappointed other posters tried to sidetrack us with extracts from Hamlet and Merchant of Venice. They should, like Coriolanus, have kept a gracious silence.)
Of course - and Hamza should remain bloody, bold and resolute.
With Yousaf it seems more 'dismiss me, enough.'

I'm somewhat alarmed to recall that Malcolm then takes over.

CarlottaVance · April 29

Scottish politics hasn’t been this much fun since Macbeth

https://x.com/Jebadoo2/status/1784842983449260175

Sandpit · April 29

Alanbrooke said:

Sandpit said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
That China has been slowly buying up huge swathes of Africa to do its bidding, over the last couple of decades, really shouldn’t be news to anyone paying attention to these things.

The rise of China is the biggest story of the next two decades, and the West seems totally flat-footed about how to respond.
A good friend of mine who lived in Africa described the Africans as the biggest money grabbing capitalists on earth, he was highly sceptical the Chinese would ever get their money back.

Oh it’s very possible that a lot of the Chinese infrastructure investment in Africa never gets paid back to the Chinese - but the Chinese probably don’t care too much, since much of it was primarily to facilitate Chinese mineral extraction which is still ongoing. The finance structures of many of the deals are also pretty ruinous, so it’s almost as if the Chinese are expecting to take interest payments indefinitely on many of the projects, and aim to get the African countries up to their necks in debt that can never be paid back.

RochdalePioneers · April 29

Scott_xP said:
@StephenCVGraham

I hope Humza's resignation speech will be an hour-long lecture on how great he is, like Sturgeon's was.

Humza will tell us that he went to a funeral for an old friend, and came away with a profound change of perspective which requires his immediate resignation.

TOPPING · April 29

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.

"left British voters to join the dots"

Bless.

Stocky · April 29

Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good morning

I just cannot see any way out for Yousaf than resignation and what follows next is anyone's guess

This may trigger some but it does seem the Irish are seeking legislation to return asylum seekers to UK who are currently crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland citing the Rwanda policy and UK is not a safe country

Meetings are to take place between Irish and UK officials but UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK

This is developing into an Irish - UK - France - EU issue and let's hope that it sees joint action to stop the boats and further cooperation across Europe and UK in addressing the wider problem of asylum seekers

I assume flights to Rwanda will commence, but it would be an excellent outcome if the deterrent effect of the Rwanda programme sees joint cooperation on this problem and makes the Rwanda scheme unnecessary

"... UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK"

Yep.

Mexicanpete · April 29

...

Stuartinromford said:

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
There's a real political danger on R-Day for the government. The right political response is obviously "no pleasure, grim necessity, but HMG is determined to end this cruel trade and to treat all people fairly..."

No bunting, no celebrations.

Is this Conservative Party going to be able to restrain themselves like that? Is Rishi going to be able to restrain himself like that?

They are planning the public holiday as we write.

Scott_xP · April 29

Mexicanpete said:
...
Stuartinromford said:

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
There's a real political danger on R-Day for the government. The right political response is obviously "no pleasure, grim necessity, but HMG is determined to end this cruel trade and to treat all people fairly..."

No bunting, no celebrations.

Is this Conservative Party going to be able to restrain themselves like that? Is Rishi going to be able to restrain himself like that?
They are planning the public holiday as we write.

Is there a VIP lane for supply of bunting?

Mexicanpete · April 29

Stocky said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good morning

I just cannot see any way out for Yousaf than resignation and what follows next is anyone's guess

This may trigger some but it does seem the Irish are seeking legislation to return asylum seekers to UK who are currently crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland citing the Rwanda policy and UK is not a safe country

Meetings are to take place between Irish and UK officials but UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK

This is developing into an Irish - UK - France - EU issue and let's hope that it sees joint action to stop the boats and further cooperation across Europe and UK in addressing the wider problem of asylum seekers

I assume flights to Rwanda will commence, but it would be an excellent outcome if the deterrent effect of the Rwanda programme sees joint cooperation on this problem and makes the Rwanda scheme unnecessary
"... UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK"

Yep.

Does the Government understand how the border between Northern and Southern Ireland works?

Casino_Royale · April 29

Lol

RochdalePioneers · April 29

Ok so he was forced to fall on his Skian-Dubh because with no majority and the other parties determined to vote against him, defeat was inevitable.

We could be back here again soon. I get the impression that the mood is growing more fractious not less. Unless of course the Tories decide to soil themselves and back the SNP because otherwise it’s an election and they’re going to get hammered.

DRoss is a man of principle and propriety. I’m sure he won’t turn out to be frit. Naah… 😂

TOPPING · April 29

Mexicanpete said:

Stocky said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good morning

I just cannot see any way out for Yousaf than resignation and what follows next is anyone's guess

This may trigger some but it does seem the Irish are seeking legislation to return asylum seekers to UK who are currently crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland citing the Rwanda policy and UK is not a safe country

Meetings are to take place between Irish and UK officials but UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK

This is developing into an Irish - UK - France - EU issue and let's hope that it sees joint action to stop the boats and further cooperation across Europe and UK in addressing the wider problem of asylum seekers

I assume flights to Rwanda will commence, but it would be an excellent outcome if the deterrent effect of the Rwanda programme sees joint cooperation on this problem and makes the Rwanda scheme unnecessary
"... UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK"

Yep.
Does the Government understand how the border between Northern and Southern Ireland works?

No. We have seen this over Brexit.

But that's not the point. Decent-minded people will find it strange that Ireland is screaming and shouting about asylum seekers coming from the UK to Ireland, while any hint of the UK doing the same wrt France is met with disdain.

Sandpit · April 29

Scott_xP said:

Mexicanpete said:
...
Stuartinromford said:

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
There's a real political danger on R-Day for the government. The right political response is obviously "no pleasure, grim necessity, but HMG is determined to end this cruel trade and to treat all people fairly..."

No bunting, no celebrations.

Is this Conservative Party going to be able to restrain themselves like that? Is Rishi going to be able to restrain himself like that?
They are planning the public holiday as we write.
Is there a VIP lane for supply of bunting?

There’s a few boxes of it hiding in a camper van somewhere.

Stocky · April 29

Casino_Royale said:
Lol

Yes and I dislike him almost as much as Sturgeon yet I can't help feeling for the guy this morning.

Mexicanpete · April 29

Scott_xP said:

Mexicanpete said:
...
Stuartinromford said:

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
There's a real political danger on R-Day for the government. The right political response is obviously "no pleasure, grim necessity, but HMG is determined to end this cruel trade and to treat all people fairly..."

No bunting, no celebrations.

Is this Conservative Party going to be able to restrain themselves like that? Is Rishi going to be able to restrain himself like that?
They are planning the public holiday as we write.
Is there a VIP lane for supply of bunting?

Only for Ministerial friends and family.

If you wanted that gig you should never have left the Conservative Party.

bondegezou · April 29

boulay said:
Could any of our Scottish readers help? On R4 on Saturday and this morning the two Scottish reporters have referred to Alec Salmond’s party as “Alaba” and the other reporters pronounced as Alba. I thought it was Alba so I’m a bit confused if it’s just a quirk of Scottish spelling or something else.

Al-a-buh is the correct Gaelic pronunciation... according to the Scottish Sun! The "a" and "l" don't quite have English equivalents, and some have the "b" unvoiced, to "p".

FF43 · April 29

boulay said:
Could any of our Scottish readers help? On R4 on Saturday and this morning the two Scottish reporters have referred to Alec Salmond’s party as “Alaba” and the other reporters pronounced as Alba. I thought it was Alba so I’m a bit confused if it’s just a quirk of Scottish spelling or something else.

Between the two I think but probably closer to "Al ba" than "Al uh ba". The L is a voiced consonant not a vowel.

Stuartinromford · April 29

Stocky said:

Casino_Royale said:
Lol
Yes and I dislike him almost as much as Sturgeon yet I can't help feeling for the guy this morning.

OK, he played his hand badly and annoyed everyone. But his main problem was that the timebomb was always going to go off sometime, and he happened to be holding it when it did.

True for most failed politicians. See also the current tenant of Downing Street.

TheValiant · April 29

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/

I'm pretty sure its been warned on here that a significant number of African countries are once again colonies, just economic colonies and not European powers but the Chinese now.

How and where this ends up, I've no idea, as these countries themselves are one day going to wake up and suddenly realise (if they haven't already) that they're just Chinese puppets rather than European ones.

Selebian · April 29

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CarlottaVance said:
“A most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality.”
Hurrah, somebody spotted my subtle Shakespeare reference.
Then comes my fit again. I had else been perfect,
Whole as the marble, founded as the rock,
As broad and general as the casing air.
But now I am cabined, cribbed, confined, bound in
To saucy doubts and fears...
There the grown serpent lies. The worm that’s fled
Hath nature that in time will venom breed.

(I'm disappointed other posters tried to sidetrack us with extracts from Hamlet and Merchant of Venice. They should, like Coriolanus, have kept a gracious silence.)
Of course - and Hamza should remain bloody, bold and resolute.
With Yousaf it seems more 'dismiss me, enough.'
I'm somewhat alarmed to recall that Malcolm then takes over.

Would make any GE debates (or Holyrood election debates) more entertaining. Though would definitely have to be post-watershed

Mexicanpete · April 29

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

Stocky said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:
Good morning

I just cannot see any way out for Yousaf than resignation and what follows next is anyone's guess

This may trigger some but it does seem the Irish are seeking legislation to return asylum seekers to UK who are currently crossing into Ireland from Northern Ireland citing the Rwanda policy and UK is not a safe country

Meetings are to take place between Irish and UK officials but UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK

This is developing into an Irish - UK - France - EU issue and let's hope that it sees joint action to stop the boats and further cooperation across Europe and UK in addressing the wider problem of asylum seekers

I assume flights to Rwanda will commence, but it would be an excellent outcome if the deterrent effect of the Rwanda programme sees joint cooperation on this problem and makes the Rwanda scheme unnecessary
"... UK has affirmed it will not accept return asylum seekers from Ireland unless France accepts them from the UK"

Yep.
Does the Government understand how the border between Northern and Southern Ireland works?
No. We have seen this over Brexit.

But that's not the point. Decent-minded people will find it strange that Ireland is screaming and shouting about asylum seekers coming from the UK to Ireland, while any hint of the UK doing the same wrt France is met with disdain.

You have a Daily Mail mindset on how us "wrong 'uns" think.

The characterisation you have posted does not represent me. Of course France should do more to stop the boats, but we hurled out any treaty that would resolve to send them back to France in our "oven ready for the microwave" Brexit deal. Ironically it is Dublin that is now crying foul.

Scott_xP · April 29

@akmaciver

Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak

bondegezou · April 29

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.

A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.

TimS · April 29

TheValiant said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
I'm pretty sure its been warned on here that a significant number of African countries are once again colonies, just economic colonies and not European powers but the Chinese now.

How and where this ends up, I've no idea, as these countries themselves are one day going to wake up and suddenly realise (if they haven't already) that they're just Chinese puppets rather than European ones.

It becomes interesting when Chinese mineral interests come up against Russian/Wagner mineral interests, as surely they will given the areas both are focusing on.

Mexicanpete · April 29

Scott_xP said:
@akmaciver

Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak

Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.

Sandpit · April 29

TimS said:

TheValiant said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
I'm pretty sure its been warned on here that a significant number of African countries are once again colonies, just economic colonies and not European powers but the Chinese now.

How and where this ends up, I've no idea, as these countries themselves are one day going to wake up and suddenly realise (if they haven't already) that they're just Chinese puppets rather than European ones.
It becomes interesting when Chinese mineral interests come up against Russian/Wagner mineral interests, as surely they will given the areas both are focusing on.

I think most of the Wagner interests died in a plane crash a few months back, and can imagine them going for cents on the dollar (to the Chinese, of course) as Russia tries to sort out the much bigger mess they’ve made for themselves somewhat closer to home.

bondegezou · April 29

FF43 said:

boulay said:
Could any of our Scottish readers help? On R4 on Saturday and this morning the two Scottish reporters have referred to Alec Salmond’s party as “Alaba” and the other reporters pronounced as Alba. I thought it was Alba so I’m a bit confused if it’s just a quirk of Scottish spelling or something else.
Between the two I think but probably closer to "Al ba" than "Al uh ba". The L is a voiced consonant not a vowel.

Wiktionary says

ˈal̪ˠəpə

TOPPING · April 29

bondegezou said:

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.
A key problem with the Rwanda scheme is that it seems unlikely to work, so Sunak and the policy's supporters have fallen on the Irish government's comments like a thirsty man in a desert finding a spring. The value of someone saying "it's working" (even though they are doing so for their own political reasons) is worth more to Sunak than the cost of having to clear up the mess that follows admitting he's shoving people across the Irish border.

One plane, one deportee, six refueling planes, two layovers, 26 security personnel, one huge trunk stuffed with cash landing in Rwanda = it's working.

bondegezou · April 29

TimS said:

TheValiant said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
This is disturbing.

A former minister sanctioned by China was detained and deported by an East African country with close ties to the Chinese state, The Telegraph can reveal.

Tim Loughton, a senior member of the Commons’ home affairs committee, believes his unprecedented and “intimidating” detention and expulsion by the Djibouti authorities was a “direct consequence” of his criticism of the Chinese regime.

It is understood the Foreign Office is seeking an explanation from the Djiboutis over his treatment. Mr Loughton has raised the affair with Andrew Mitchell, the deputy Foreign Secretary, and written to the Djibouti ambassador via the Foreign Office to protest about the “outrageous” behaviour.

Mr Loughton arrived in Djibouti on April 8 for a 24-hour visit including meeting the British ambassador, but was detained for more than seven hours at the airport, barred entry to the country and told he was being removed on the next available flight.

Mr Loughton is one of seven parliamentarians sanctioned by the Chinese more than three years ago for speaking out against the “industrial scale” of human rights abuses by China against the Uighurs, Tibetans and Hong Kongers.

Djibouti, Africa’s smallest nation, has received billions of dollars of investment from China, including a new stadium, hospital and $1 billion (£791 million) space port. China has built a naval base in the country, stationed 2,000 troops there and holds more than $1.4 billion of Djibouti’s debt, 45 per cent of its GDP.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/28/tim-loughton-djibouti-detained-deported-china-sanctions/
I'm pretty sure its been warned on here that a significant number of African countries are once again colonies, just economic colonies and not European powers but the Chinese now.

How and where this ends up, I've no idea, as these countries themselves are one day going to wake up and suddenly realise (if they haven't already) that they're just Chinese puppets rather than European ones.
It becomes interesting when Chinese mineral interests come up against Russian/Wagner mineral interests, as surely they will given the areas both are focusing on.

Yes. https://www.voanews.com/a/china-and-wagner-in-africa-friends-or-foes-/7219827.html

DecrepiterJohnL · April 29

Mexicanpete said:

Scott_xP said:
@akmaciver

Quiet news day @STVNews #HumzaYousaf #RishiSunak

Rebels plotting against Rishi is barely newsworthy. It's as regular as the ticking of a clock.

Are rebels plotting against Rishi, or are a few excitable backbenchers (and would-be leadership candidates) noisily hoping that someone, somewhere is plotting to bring down and replace the Prime Minister?

Icarus · April 29

Possible replacement for Humza, Kate Forbes, is another Marmite politician. But more serious is the possibility of an SNP MSP being suspended (Nicola Sturgeon?) or resigning which would make governing impossible.

BlancheLivermore · April 29

I've just reached Sahagún, the official halfway mark, in nine days, two hours and twenty minutes

CarlottaVance · April 29

Jenny Gilruth, who is gathering support to be Scotland’s next First Minister, can’t tell a BBC QT audience whether a double rapist is a man or a woman. This is why Sturgeon fell, why Yousaf is about to. These are not ‘progressive’ values - it’s a denial of science and contempt for women and girls[VIDEO]

https://x.com/dalgetysusan/status/1784854534071705797

MattW · April 29

Good morning everyone.

Let me put out a spoiler for a @TSE future headline:

Out, damned Scot !

Selebian · April 29

BlancheLivermore said:
I've just reached Sahagún, the official halfway mark, in nine days, two hours and twenty minutes

So, we all thought it was Theresa May's walking holidays that led to big political events. But... maybe it's yours, instead?

I've not visited the parts of Spain you're in at all, looks interesting though.

FF43 · April 29

LostPassword said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:
As all here may be aware, I yield to no one in my left wing, bring 'em all over, that mug is not in my name, sure I may have been at war with and dropping bombs on them but now I am a big fan and support their struggle against the evil oppressor, pro-immigration stance.

But Ireland may inadvertently be giving Rishi the support he needs wrt his immigration/Rwanda policy. Pass a law saying they must go back to the last country they came from, eh? Well I never.
Ireland is in La Francophonie, so Im sure President Macron will do his utmost to help out.
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't think any French government minister was so dim as to claim credit for asylum seekers crossing the Channel in small boats. None of them said, "you see, our policy to scare asylum seekers to go elsewhere is working," and thereby accept responsibility for it.

Sunak has accepted that his policy dumps asylum seekers on Ireland, that he is essentially in the same position as Belarus, shoving people across the Polish border, and so that puts Ireland in a much stronger position to demand that he does something about it.

If he hadn't been so stupid he would have responded to the Irish claims with a gallic shrug, said that the Rwanda policy was intended to stop the boat crossings, and left British voters to join the dots. But he couldn't help himself.

A strong incentive for a United Ireland. Ireland can then impose their own "Stop the boats" policy across the Irish Sea. Instead of seeing refugees crossing a contested border that Ireland is constitutionally prevented from controlling.

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