The sum of all Keirs – politicalbetting.com

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?

Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.

Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.

Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.

Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.

It knew who these people were and targeted them.

Israel has not even apologised.

You are off the deep end. Please come home.

The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.

From BBC Verify:
The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".

He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".

When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.

Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.

You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc

Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?

You are a silly billy.

Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.

Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.

I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.

Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.

Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.

Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?

Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.

Paragraph.1. Correct, but proportionality has to be exercised

Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!

Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.

1. Agreed - and Israel is exercising it.

2. Agreed - which is why they need to be defeated and can't be negotiated with and there should be no ceasefire.

3. Precision strikes with limited collateral is just unachievable nonsense. Any strike always has collateral.

1. Bollocks it is!
2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number).
3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich?

Foxy said:

Carnyx said:

ohnotnow said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Northern_Al said:

Carnyx said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Malmesbury said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

MattW said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

Malmesbury said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Chris said:

"WLabourhat I find really interesting about this MRP is that ..."

I find there is a need for some proofreading on this site.

Editing PB is one of my four full time jobs at the moment.

Plus editing on a phone is never fun.

What are your other jobs?

TSE is a part-time high-flier executive manager. AND a full-time over-priced fancy-footwear tester.

TSE is a manager? Do we know in what sort of business?

His business is extreme modesty & inexpensive, quiet shoes.

This is known.

Oh I see. Sounds sort of interesting.

I imagine TSE in Garfield Slippers.

Not a clue what TSE looks like or really anything about them.

sneak preview of TSE's slippers

Current footwear.

More money than sense!

Hey Sunil, was thinking of you just now as I’ve had a pleasant day train riding in Yorkshire. Originally planned to do a loop - Harrogate - York - Scarborough - Hull - Leeds - Harrogate but couldn’t make the connections work so I’ve just done the Scarborough line and back.

Nice one. I did both York to Scarborough and Hull to Scarborough back in 2017.

I used to get the train on that route quite often, lovely views.

One view I’m getting a lot of is waterlogged ploughed fields with hardly any growth.

And I’ve been seeing that in Staffs, Glos, Cheshire and North Wales too.

If Sunak is serious about the autumn I wondered if he’s factored in drought in Europe and monsoon in the British Isles causing food inflation to skyrocket again?

It's going to be a bad year for (arable) farmers.

Cows, sheep and pig don't seem to mind the rain so much. Pigs, because they'll survive any condition and eat anything. Cows, because they're hardy. Sheep; because they're too stoopid to die...

I don’t reckon sheep and cattle will enjoy this mud too much. Foot rot and getting stuck are likely to be issues.

As for pigs, maybe they’ll like the mud, but how much will their fodder cost? (That incidentally goes for cattle and lowland sheep too.)

Spuds an issue, too. One can't plant in a re-enactment of Third Wipers.

https://www.potatonewstoday.com/2024/03/16/rain-delays-and-rising-prices-the-dual-challenge-facing-potato-markets-in-ireland-and-europe/

Brilliant. Only on PB could we have a link to Potato News Today.
I have forwarded the link to HIGNFY for use in their next series.

Excellent publication, albeit it is (allegedly) just a front for Big Potato, and it's (allegedly) dastardly CEO, Mr. Potatohead.

Anyway, Potato News Today is all over THIS story, bird-dogged yesterday for PBers by yours truly:

PNT - Senators rally to defend the potato’s vegetable status amid USDA and HHS reclassification debate

In a striking show of unity, a group of 14 U.S. Senators has penned a letter to the heads of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), expressing vehement opposition to the potential reclassification of potatoes as grains in the forthcoming 2025-2030 Dietary Guidelines for Americans (DGAs).

The letter, addressed to Secretaries Tom Vilsack and Xavier Becerra, outlines a robust defense of the potato’s status as a vegetable.

https://www.potatonewstoday.com/2024/03/30/senators-rally-to-defend-the-potatos-vegetable-status-amid-usda-and-hhs-reclassification-debate/

AND here is link to the letter itself (provided by PNT)

https://www.collins.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/collins-bennet_letter_-_reclassification_of_potatoes.pdf

SSI - Includes both senators from both Idaho ("Famous Potatoes") and Maine (another big spud producer).

Am personally curious to know why US Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) did NOT sign on, considering that a) her fellow WA US Sen. Maria Cantwell did, and WA Gov. Jay Inslee has also expressed support; and b) unlike Cantwell and Inslee, Patty is running for re-election in 2024.

I've never thought of potatoes as veg. More like pasta or rice.

Now I feel like I'm a weirdo.

Doesn't mean you are wrong. I said the first yesterday, and the second was what some of us said. But spuds would definitely fall on the bread etc or sitos side of the Ancient Greek opson/sitos dichotomy, had they known about spuds. Clever buggers, those Greeks.

Still wondering how some of us stave off scurvy and other diseases without eating their meat very fresh, very raw and very seal-y.

You don't get scurvy eating spuds. Indeed they constitute one of the larger sources of vitamin C in the British diet.

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

According to the IDF, they killed 1,600 Hamas terrorists on 7/10 itself.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

Andy_JS said:

155 seats doesn't sound too bad for the Tories, given some of the other surveys that have been out recently.

Andy_JS said:

155 seats doesn't sound too bad for the Tories, given some of the other surveys that have been out recently.

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

Certainly Hamas have a long record of war crimes, and are still committing them, but that doesn't excuse Israeli war crimes.

I think that Israel does let the hotheads run the show. After all many are in government there.

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

Certainly Hamas have a long record of war crimes, and are still committing them, but that doesn't excuse Israeli war crimes.

I think that Israel does let the hotheads run the show. After all many are in government there.

TOPPING said:

Stuartinromford said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

Isn't the issue that the hotheads increasingly are running the show? In practice if not in theory.

No idea. I suppose in a perceived existential war the question is how hot is too hot.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?

Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.

Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.

Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.

Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.

It knew who these people were and targeted them.

Israel has not even apologised.

You are off the deep end. Please come home.

The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.

From BBC Verify:
The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".

He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".

When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.

Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.

You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc

Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?

You are a silly billy.

Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.

Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.

I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.

Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.

Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.

Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?

Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.

Paragraph.1. Correct, but proportionality has to be exercised

Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!

Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.

1. Agreed - and Israel is exercising it.

2. Agreed - which is why they need to be defeated and can't be negotiated with and there should be no ceasefire.

3. Precision strikes with limited collateral is just unachievable nonsense. Any strike always has collateral.

1. Bollocks it is!
2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number).
3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich?

1. Yes it is.
2. Whatever it takes. The death toll of the Iraq War was over a quarter of a million, and this is an order of magnitude more justified than that war, so lets say double that half a million? If that's what it takes?
3. Real life isn't a James Bond movie. Pushing a few people out of windows won't end Hamas.

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Stuartinromford said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

Isn't the issue that the hotheads increasingly are running the show? In practice if not in theory.

No idea. I suppose in a perceived existential war the question is how hot is too hot.

If anything goes in an existential war, then surely that applies to Hamas too?

twistedfirestopper3 said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

It's all that meat the lad eats. If he'd just chill and eat a bit of smashed avo, he'd be much happier.

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

According to the IDF, they killed 1,600 Hamas terrorists on 7/10 itself.

And what would have happened if they hadn't killed those terrorists do you think.

It would be a funny "Defence" force that neglected to fight back against the initial incursion, would it not?

Not my point. I'm asking what you think would have happened without any IDF response. At what point would Hamas have stopped. Or would it only have been an out of ammo situation.

Andy_JS said:

LostPassword said:

Andy_JS said:

155 seats doesn't sound too bad for the Tories, given some of the other surveys that have been out recently.

That was my first thought, but then it was also said this was worse than the prior YouGov MRP.

Yep. Actually the figures are amazingly close to the 1997 election, not just for the Tories but for Lab and the LDs as well.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?

Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.

Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.

Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.

Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.

It knew who these people were and targeted them.

Israel has not even apologised.

You are off the deep end. Please come home.

The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.

From BBC Verify:
The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".

He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".

When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.

Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.

You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc

Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?

You are a silly billy.

Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.

Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.

I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.

Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.

Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.

Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?

Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.

Paragraph.1. Correct, but proportionality has to be exercised

Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!

Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.

1. Agreed - and Israel is exercising it.

2. Agreed - which is why they need to be defeated and can't be negotiated with and there should be no ceasefire.

3. Precision strikes with limited collateral is just unachievable nonsense. Any strike always has collateral.

1. Bollocks it is!
2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number).
3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich?

Wasn't everyone saying they shouldn't bomb Gaza but go after the leaders of Hamas instead. Isn't that the basis of their supposed extra-territorial strikes.

They can't win, eh.

There's going after bastards covertly on foreign sovereign land which is fine, and there is blowing up sovereign bastard's consulates on other sovereign nation's land.

I thought being a military strategist you'd know this.

So you want James Bond nonsense only.

Covertly going after a couple of people may be possible, though its time consuming and difficult and expensive.

Trying to defeat an enemy institution requires much more.

Anyone out of window following your policy would be immediately replaced as they'd be so far between each one.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

According to the IDF, they killed 1,600 Hamas terrorists on 7/10 itself.

And what would have happened if they hadn't killed those terrorists do you think.

It would be a funny "Defence" force that neglected to fight back against the initial incursion, would it not?

Not my point. I'm asking what you think would have happened without any IDF response. At what point would Hamas have stopped. Or would it only have been an out of ammo situation.

But the IDF was around that day. You'd might as well ask "What do you think would have happened if the Sun exploded?".

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

turbotubbs said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

According to the IDF, they killed 1,600 Hamas terrorists on 7/10 itself.

And what would have happened if they hadn't killed those terrorists do you think.

It would be a funny "Defence" force that neglected to fight back against the initial incursion, would it not?

Not my point. I'm asking what you think would have happened without any IDF response. At what point would Hamas have stopped. Or would it only have been an out of ammo situation.

But the IDF was around that day. You'd might as well ask "What do you think would have happened if the Sun exploded?".

Because you persist in linking how evil a regime is to the kill score, rather than the intent. Others contend that Hamas would kill all the Jews if they could. However bad the current situation in Gaza is, I don’t think Israel wants to murder all the millions living there. Even if you believe that they are using hunger as a weapon (seems likely) it’s being done for a reason.

There are still lots of hostages held by Hamas.

And there are thousands of people currently held without charge by Israel...

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

According to the IDF, they killed 1,600 Hamas terrorists on 7/10 itself.

And what would have happened if they hadn't killed those terrorists do you think.

It would be a funny "Defence" force that neglected to fight back against the initial incursion, would it not?

Not my point. I'm asking what you think would have happened without any IDF response. At what point would Hamas have stopped. Or would it only have been an out of ammo situation.

But the IDF was around that day. You'd might as well ask "What do you think would have happened if the Sun exploded?".

Okay fair enough I'm not going to do a Paxman on you and keep asking.

That you refuse to answer is itself the answer.

Your heroes would have kept on killing until they ran out of the means to do so. Although as @turbotubbs had noted there are plenty of rocks around which might have prolonged things.

Your question is purely hypothetical, given it's your Israeli heroes who are ACTUALLY killing people in the real world, as we speak.

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

We should just reoccupy the whole lot , in order to:

STOP them playing football with their hands
STOP them driving on the wrong side of the road
STOP them being obsessed with guns
STOP them mispronouncing words like "water"
STOP them spelling words like "color", er, I mean "colour" incorrectly.

There!

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

According to the IDF, they killed 1,600 Hamas terrorists on 7/10 itself.

And what would have happened if they hadn't killed those terrorists do you think.

It would be a funny "Defence" force that neglected to fight back against the initial incursion, would it not?

Not my point. I'm asking what you think would have happened without any IDF response. At what point would Hamas have stopped. Or would it only have been an out of ammo situation.

But the IDF was around that day. You'd might as well ask "What do you think would have happened if the Sun exploded?".

Okay fair enough I'm not going to do a Paxman on you and keep asking.

That you refuse to answer is itself the answer.

Your heroes would have kept on killing until they ran out of the means to do so. Although as @turbotubbs had noted there are plenty of rocks around which might have prolonged things.

Your question is purely hypothetical, given it's your Israeli heroes who are ACTUALLY killing people in the real world, as we speak.

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.

Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.

If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?

Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.

Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.

Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.

Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.

It knew who these people were and targeted them.

Israel has not even apologised.

You are off the deep end. Please come home.

The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.

From BBC Verify:
The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".

He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".

When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.

Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.

You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc

Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?

You are a silly billy.

Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.

Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.

I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.

Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.

Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.

Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?

Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.

Paragraph.1. Correct, but proportionality has to be exercised

Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!

Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.

1. Agreed - and Israel is exercising it.

2. Agreed - which is why they need to be defeated and can't be negotiated with and there should be no ceasefire.

3. Precision strikes with limited collateral is just unachievable nonsense. Any strike always has collateral.

1. Bollocks it is!
2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number).
3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich?

Wasn't everyone saying they shouldn't bomb Gaza but go after the leaders of Hamas instead. Isn't that the basis of their supposed extra-territorial strikes.

They can't win, eh.

There's going after bastards covertly on foreign sovereign land which is fine, and there is blowing up sovereign bastard's consulates on other sovereign nation's land.

I thought being a military strategist you'd know this.

Oh I bow to the superior PB knowledge of war fighting. If you could possibly drop me a copy of the rules of engagement or perhaps post them here for everyone to see then at least we can all understand what actions are right and proper and which ones are beyond the pale.

LostPassword said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

We should just reoccupy the whole lot , in order to:

STOP them playing football with their hands
STOP them driving on the wrong side of the road
STOP them being obsessed with guns
STOP them mispronouncing words like "water"
STOP them spelling words like "color", er, I mean "colour" incorrectly.

There!

How do you pronounce "water"?

Nigelb said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

TOPPING said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Mexicanpete said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?

Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.

Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.

Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.

Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.

It knew who these people were and targeted them.

Israel has not even apologised.

You are off the deep end. Please come home.

The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.

From BBC Verify:
The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".

He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".

When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.

Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.

You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc

Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?

You are a silly billy.

Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.

Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.

I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.

Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.

Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.

Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?

Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.

Paragraph.1. Correct, but proportionality has to be exercised

Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!

Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.

1. Agreed - and Israel is exercising it.

2. Agreed - which is why they need to be defeated and can't be negotiated with and there should be no ceasefire.

3. Precision strikes with limited collateral is just unachievable nonsense. Any strike always has collateral.

1. Bollocks it is!
2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number).
3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich?

Wasn't everyone saying they shouldn't bomb Gaza but go after the leaders of Hamas instead. Isn't that the basis of their supposed extra-territorial strikes.

They can't win, eh.

There's going after bastards covertly on foreign sovereign land which is fine, and there is blowing up sovereign bastard's consulates on other sovereign nation's land.

I thought being a military strategist you'd know this.

Oh I bow to the superior PB knowledge of war fighting. If you could possibly drop me a copy of the rules of engagement or perhaps post them here for everyone to see then at least we can all understand what actions are right and proper and which ones are beyond the pale.

Here you go.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes
The Israeli military’s bombing campaign in Gaza used a previously undisclosed AI-powered database that at one stage identified 37,000 potential targets based on their apparent links to Hamas, according to intelligence sources involved in the war.

In addition to talking about their use of the AI system, called Lavender, the intelligence sources claim that Israeli military officials permitted large numbers of Palestinian civilians to be killed, particularly during the early weeks and months of the conflict.

Their unusually candid testimony provides a rare glimpse into the first-hand experiences of Israeli intelligence officials who have been using machine-learning systems to help identify targets during the six-month war.

Israel’s use of powerful AI systems in its war on Hamas has entered uncharted territory for advanced warfare, raising a host of legal and moral questions, and transforming the relationship between military personnel and machines.

“This is unparalleled, in my memory,” said one intelligence officer who used Lavender, adding that they had more faith in a “statistical mechanism” than a grieving soldier. “Everyone there, including me, lost people on October 7. The machine did it coldly. And that made it easier.”

Another Lavender user questioned whether humans’ role in the selection process was meaningful. “I would invest 20 seconds for each target at this stage, and do dozens of them every day. I had zero added-value as a human, apart from being a stamp of approval. It saved a lot of time.”..

.. Several of the sources described how, for certain categories of targets, the IDF applied pre-authorised allowances for the estimated number of civilians who could be killed before a strike was authorised.

Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupant….

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.

Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.

If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.

The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.

Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.

Stuartinromford said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

turbotubbs said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

turbotubbs said:

That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.

I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.

Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.

I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.

They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.

If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.

The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.

Can't have the latter without the former.

It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.

The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.

I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.

I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.

The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.

According to the IDF, they killed 1,600 Hamas terrorists on 7/10 itself.

And what would have happened if they hadn't killed those terrorists do you think.

It would be a funny "Defence" force that neglected to fight back against the initial incursion, would it not?

Not my point. I'm asking what you think would have happened without any IDF response. At what point would Hamas have stopped. Or would it only have been an out of ammo situation.

But the IDF was around that day. You'd might as well ask "What do you think would have happened if the Sun exploded?".

Okay fair enough I'm not going to do a Paxman on you and keep asking.

That you refuse to answer is itself the answer.

Your heroes would have kept on killing until they ran out of the means to do so. Although as @turbotubbs had noted there are plenty of rocks around which might have prolonged things.

Your question is purely hypothetical, given it's your Israeli heroes who are ACTUALLY killing people in the real world, as we speak.

Unfortunately, there are very few heroes in this story. Lots of victims, a smattering of villains on both sides of the border. But apart from the aid workers, very few heroes.

And until that changes, nothing changes.

LostPassword said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'mAn not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.

Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.

If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.

The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.

Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.

Yes. But who agreed that the current borders of the USA are sacrosanct. The Navajo?

The Navajo did sign a treaty with the US in 1868, yes.

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.

Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.

If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.

The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.

Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.

Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.

Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.

Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.

If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.

The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.

Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.

Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.

Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.

No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.

Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.

Malmesbury said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Nigelb said:

Wut ?

Trump: Would you rather have the Black president or the white president? I think they want the white guy.
https://twitter.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1775562293243183121

Well he has said he's running against Obama.

Biden is white.
Trump is orange.

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

TOPPING said:

Foxy said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

BatteryCorrectHorse said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

The nutjobs already exist.

You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.

I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.

You are just delusional, with no solutions.

So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?

Yes.

I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.

You are unhinged.

No I'm not, I'm being a realist.

A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.

Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.

War is necessary sometimes.

When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.

You are an appeaser.

You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.

No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.

I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.

Not the only one. Me too.

Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.

I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.

Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.

If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.

The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.

Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.

Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.

Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.

No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.

Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights, expelled or exterminated.