@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
Do you understand the ECHR and like it, or do you just like the idea of it because it sounds dead progressive?
I understand the ECHR and I like it, it is batty to consider leaving it.
Do you think Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Japan are inferior democracies for not being in the ECHR?
Do you think Putin's Russia (2019) was a superior democracy for being in the ECHR?
Well Japan has the death penalty so on that basis alone, yes it is an inferior democracy.
I didn't know Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Japan have moved continents. Was this a recent move?
Geography is irrelevant to humanity.
So why did ancient civilisations build next to rivers and the sea?
Because ancient civilisations lacked trains, planes and automobiles. And the rest of modern civilisation.
We don't.
I can talk to someone in Australia easier than an ancient Briton living where I live could talk to someone in Manchester.
You still need geography to trade your English pounds for a container load of widgets from China. Although if we had stayed in the EU that chapter of geography could be a shorter one.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
Do you understand the ECHR and like it, or do you just like the idea of it because it sounds dead progressive?
I understand the ECHR and I like it, it is batty to consider leaving it.
Do you think Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Japan are inferior democracies for not being in the ECHR?
Do you think Putin's Russia (2019) was a superior democracy for being in the ECHR?
Well Japan has the death penalty so on that basis alone, yes it is an inferior democracy.
I didn't know Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Japan have moved continents. Was this a recent move?
Geography is irrelevant to humanity.
So why did ancient civilisations build next to rivers and the sea?
Corrupt influence of combined ancient Irrigation Lobby, Sewage Monopoly and Ditch-Diggers Guild?
But of course geography was key, otherwise the Thames Water of its day couldn't dispose of sh...ocking amounts of human excrement conveniently.
Believe there is a Babylonian brick in the back of the British Museum, inscribed with (very) early prospectus for "Tigris Water" including claim that it's "the greatest investment opportunity since The Flood".
That's what the owners of Thames Water said when they sold it to the Chinese.
Rumours 1,500 French Foreign Legion troops to be sent to Ukraine, presumably as a tripwire force.
But does the tripwire have credibility? Would will he do if they get hit?
Lots of quislings - including on here - have made a great deal of the threat of Russia's nukes (*). France also has nuclear weapons, and the means to deploy them.
Most importantly: France has a much larger economy that Russia, even taking into account PPP (Sorry, Leon). We really should get over this stupid 'Russia Stronk' mindset that so many have, from @Topping to @NickPalmer to @Dura_Ace
Russia isn't stronk. Russia is a poor country being led by a fascist government with an imperialist mindset. One that is losing to a far smaller country fighting with one hand tied behind its back.
If Russia wants a war with France, does anyone actually think that Russia will win via military means?
(*) Which Putin won't use, for reasons gone into before.
The question is what constitutes a war with France? If a number of French Foreign Legion troops are killed in a missile attack, would France escalate and how?
They didn't after Dien Bien Phu.
OK, not a missile attack, but same sort of principle.
Except in that case France were already in the middle of a war. Dien Bien Phu was much closer to the final chapter of the French Indochina war than the opening.
Incidently the Battlefield Archaeologist Tony Pollard is currently running a DBP 'On This Day' on his facebook page as we are in the middle of the 70th anniversary of the siege. Today the Huguette enclave is crumbling after the collapse of Strong Point Francoise.
Ukraine possibly used a cheap, reliable, and inconspicuous light Cessna-style aircraft loaded with explosives for a kamikaze attack on a Russian drone factory in Tatarstan, Forbes reports.
Rumours 1,500 French Foreign Legion troops to be sent to Ukraine, presumably as a tripwire force.
But does the tripwire have credibility? Would will he do if they get hit?
Lots of quislings - including on here - have made a great deal of the threat of Russia's nukes (*). France also has nuclear weapons, and the means to deploy them.
Most importantly: France has a much larger economy that Russia, even taking into account PPP (Sorry, Leon). We really should get over this stupid 'Russia Stronk' mindset that so many have, from @Topping to @NickPalmer to @Dura_Ace
Russia isn't stronk. Russia is a poor country being led by a fascist government with an imperialist mindset. One that is losing to a far smaller country fighting with one hand tied behind its back.
If Russia wants a war with France, does anyone actually think that Russia will win via military means?
(*) Which Putin won't use, for reasons gone into before.
The question is what constitutes a war with France? If a number of French Foreign Legion troops are killed in a missile attack, would France escalate and how?
Sink the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
No. Wait. There’s a problem there.
Seriously? Long range AAM/SAM attack on the next time Russians send their bombers to launch missiles against Ukraine.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
They managed to "mistake" a vehicle they knew was for international aid, with a logo on the top that said it was for that purpose?
Do you understand the ECHR and like it, or do you just like the idea of it because it sounds dead progressive?
I understand the ECHR and I like it, it is batty to consider leaving it.
Do you think Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Japan are inferior democracies for not being in the ECHR?
Do you think Putin's Russia (2019) was a superior democracy for being in the ECHR?
Well Japan has the death penalty so on that basis alone, yes it is an inferior democracy.
I didn't know Canada, New Zealand, Australia and Japan have moved continents. Was this a recent move?
Geography is irrelevant to humanity.
So why did ancient civilisations build next to rivers and the sea?
Because ancient civilisations lacked trains, planes and automobiles. And the rest of modern civilisation.
We don't.
I can talk to someone in Australia easier than an ancient Briton living where I live could talk to someone in Manchester.
You still need geography to trade your English pounds for a container load of widgets from China. Although if we had stayed in the EU that chapter of geography could be a shorter one.
I just go on amazon.co.uk* and a vehicle drops the widgets off at my door the next day.
Again easier to get widgets from Beijing today than it was from Birmingham, let alone Barcelona or Bordeaux in the past.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
Fake = when it is something Bart doesn't like.
You are really off the deep end here, it is depressing to see.
These people are vile, inhumane killers. Stop the arms sales and withdraw support now.
Rumours 1,500 French Foreign Legion troops to be sent to Ukraine, presumably as a tripwire force.
But does the tripwire have credibility? Would will he do if they get hit?
Lots of quislings - including on here - have made a great deal of the threat of Russia's nukes (*). France also has nuclear weapons, and the means to deploy them.
Most importantly: France has a much larger economy that Russia, even taking into account PPP (Sorry, Leon). We really should get over this stupid 'Russia Stronk' mindset that so many have, from @Topping to @NickPalmer to @Dura_Ace
Russia isn't stronk. Russia is a poor country being led by a fascist government with an imperialist mindset. One that is losing to a far smaller country fighting with one hand tied behind its back.
If Russia wants a war with France, does anyone actually think that Russia will win via military means?
(*) Which Putin won't use, for reasons gone into before.
The question is what constitutes a war with France? If a number of French Foreign Legion troops are killed in a missile attack, would France escalate and how?
France won't say, which is part of why this move would be a powerful one. If you say, you give Putin room to manoeuvre.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
They managed to "mistake" a vehicle they knew was for international aid, with a logo on the top that said it was for that purpose?
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
They managed to "mistake" a vehicle they knew was for international aid, with a logo on the top that said it was for that purpose?
They are liars. They have lied and lied and lied.
Enough.
Given that Hamas is widely believed to embed themselves among the civilian population and to use hospitals as bases, it’s surely possible that they had faulty intel about a Hamas operative.
Rumours 1,500 French Foreign Legion troops to be sent to Ukraine, presumably as a tripwire force.
But does the tripwire have credibility? Would will he do if they get hit?
Lots of quislings - including on here - have made a great deal of the threat of Russia's nukes (*). France also has nuclear weapons, and the means to deploy them.
Most importantly: France has a much larger economy that Russia, even taking into account PPP (Sorry, Leon). We really should get over this stupid 'Russia Stronk' mindset that so many have, from @Topping to @NickPalmer to @Dura_Ace
Russia isn't stronk. Russia is a poor country being led by a fascist government with an imperialist mindset. One that is losing to a far smaller country fighting with one hand tied behind its back.
If Russia wants a war with France, does anyone actually think that Russia will win via military means?
(*) Which Putin won't use, for reasons gone into before.
The question is what constitutes a war with France? If a number of French Foreign Legion troops are killed in a missile attack, would France escalate and how?
They didn't after Dien Bien Phu.
OK, not a missile attack, but same sort of principle.
If the French send troops, I can’t see how the Poles and Baltic States won’t. Short of Zelensky personally forbidding them.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
Why are you cheerleading a government that's murdered over 32,000 people inside 6 months?
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
Fake = when it is something Bart doesn't like.
You are really off the deep end here, it is depressing to see.
These people are vile, inhumane killers. Stop the arms sales and withdraw support now.
Hamas are the vile, inhumane killers.
Everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
We've made mistakes and killed innocents in war too, its tragic but it happens.
Ukraine possibly used a cheap, reliable, and inconspicuous light Cessna-style aircraft loaded with explosives for a kamikaze attack on a Russian drone factory in Tatarstan, Forbes reports.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
Why are you cheerleading a government that's murdered over 32,000 people inside 6 months?
They haven't.
Killing people in war ≠ murder.
Did Tony Blair "murder" a quarter of a million people by invading Iraq?
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
Why are you cheerleading a government that's murdered over 32,000 people inside 6 months?
They haven't.
Killing people in war ≠ murder.
Did Tony Blair "murder" a quarter of a million people by invading Iraq?
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
You are a silly billy.
Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.
Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.
I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.
Israel managed to target the wrong people three times. So are they just incredibly incompetent in your eyes?
Fog of war.
I expect the wrong people to be hit in war sometimes, don't you?
Three times? So they are just really incompetent then?
Can you answer how you manage to conclude a vehicle with an aid sign on it that the organisation told you was an aid vehicle, is targeted "by mistake"?
Or perhaps the simple explanation is that they don't want aid delivered to innocent people.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
Another war monger.
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
Why do you not have any doubt that Israel might have just messed up, your choosing to believe them despite their continuous lies is baffling to me unless you support war for war's sake.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
This is why I tend to stay out of such discussions (most of the time).
Hamas are led by sociopaths with no regard for human life - but at the moment, it’s not unreasonable to make the same judgment of Israel’s leaders.
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
Why do you not have any doubt that Israel might have just messed up, your choosing to believe them despite their continuous lies is baffling to me unless you support war for war's sake.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
I agree with you on this, I think they messed up and I think that Bibi has gone off the edge. Any goodwill that Israel had in Oct has evaporated. I just have rather more sympathy for their actions (and why they might feel the need to take them) than many on here seem to.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
Rumours 1,500 French Foreign Legion troops to be sent to Ukraine, presumably as a tripwire force.
But does the tripwire have credibility? Would will he do if they get hit?
Lots of quislings - including on here - have made a great deal of the threat of Russia's nukes (*). France also has nuclear weapons, and the means to deploy them.
Most importantly: France has a much larger economy that Russia, even taking into account PPP (Sorry, Leon). We really should get over this stupid 'Russia Stronk' mindset that so many have, from @Topping to @NickPalmer to @Dura_Ace
Russia isn't stronk. Russia is a poor country being led by a fascist government with an imperialist mindset. One that is losing to a far smaller country fighting with one hand tied behind its back.
If Russia wants a war with France, does anyone actually think that Russia will win via military means?
(*) Which Putin won't use, for reasons gone into before.
Not much good France having a larger economy if they're not willing to direct it towards military production. France is aiming to deliver 80,000 155mm artillery shells to Ukraine this year. It's about ten days of Russia's artillery shell production.
What if Russia calls France's bluff and the French army loses?
Ukraine possibly used a cheap, reliable, and inconspicuous light Cessna-style aircraft loaded with explosives for a kamikaze attack on a Russian drone factory in Tatarstan, Forbes reports.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
There’s not a lot of good to be said about either side, TBH. As I asked earlier, has anyone heard anything recently about the poor souls still held hostage? And if they’re hostages, what’s the price of release?
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
You are a silly billy.
Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.
Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.
I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.
Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.
Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.
Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?
Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.
Israel managed to target the wrong people three times. So are they just incredibly incompetent in your eyes?
Fog of war.
I expect the wrong people to be hit in war sometimes, don't you?
Perhaps the best single example is three escaped Israeli hostages stripped down to their underpants and waving a white flag aloft and screaming in Hebrew for the soldiers to save them. Instead they were callously gunned down multiple times until life was extinguished. No two ways about it Bart that was no fog of war incident, no friendly fire accident. They were executed, just in case
An out of control Prime Minister, out of control Generals and out of control squaddies. It's a recipe for a full scale regional bloodbath.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
Diet Coke of Evil. Israel are the real deal.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
You are a silly billy.
Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.
Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.
I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.
Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.
Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.
Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?
Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.
Israel managed to target the wrong people three times. So are they just incredibly incompetent in your eyes?
Fog of war.
I expect the wrong people to be hit in war sometimes, don't you?
Three times? So they are just really incompetent then?
Can you answer how you manage to conclude a vehicle with an aid sign on it that the organisation told you was an aid vehicle, is targeted "by mistake"?
Or perhaps the simple explanation is that they don't want aid delivered to innocent people.
The same way as a Chinese embassy is targeted by mistake.
Shit happens in war, its why wars should be the last resort.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
Diet Coke of Evil. Israel are the real deal.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
Yet it's Israel who've levelled Gaza. 32,000 murdered, 2 million left homeless and starving.
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
Why do you not have any doubt that Israel might have just messed up, your choosing to believe them despite their continuous lies is baffling to me unless you support war for war's sake.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
You're the one denying Israel might have just messed up, I'm the one saying they did. You're insisting, with no evidence, that it was deliberate.
A real peace can only follow an Israeli victory and the annihilation of Hamas. A ceasefire where Gaza returns to being a Hamas-run open air prison is no peace.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
They managed to "mistake" a vehicle they knew was for international aid, with a logo on the top that said it was for that purpose?
They are liars. They have lied and lied and lied.
Enough.
Don't be a twat. We don't really know anything yet but possible explanations include deliberately targeting aid workers from countries whose support they need, targeting Hamas operatives who embed themselves with aid workers, a genuine honest to goodness mistake as in shouldn't have hit the vehicles at all, and being casual with collateral damage when hitting their enemies in war, or some other explanation
I'm with you 100% on the King and private property, that said.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
Diet Coke of Evil. Israel are the real deal.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
Yet it's Israel who've levelled Gaza. 32,000 murdered, 2 million left homeless and starving.
And what would Hamas do if it had the power? You are wilfully blind to this. The situation right now is appalling. We need a ceasefire, an end to the conflict and serious efforts to rebuild Gaza. Gaza needs a port, and a way of being a functioning state, not just a huge refugee camp.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
Diet Coke of Evil. Israel are the real deal.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
Yet it's Israel who've levelled Gaza. 32,000 murdered, 2 million left homeless and starving.
And what would Hamas do if it had the power? You are wilfully blind to this.
Live in the REAL world - it's actually Israel doing the mass-slaughtering.
Don't be a twat. We don't really know anything yet but possible explanations include deliberately targeting aid workers from countries whose support they need, targeting Hamas operatives who embed themselves with aid workers, a genuine honest to goodness mistake as in shouldn't have hit the vehicles at all, and being casual with collateral damage when hitting their enemies in war, or some other explanation
I'm with you 100% on the King and private property, that said.
They got it wrong THREE times? They are then at best staggeringly incompetent.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
And Hamas knew that was a likely outcome of their actions when they were planning this on October 6th. What little regard they must have for Palestinian lives.
Israel managed to target the wrong people three times. So are they just incredibly incompetent in your eyes?
Fog of war.
I expect the wrong people to be hit in war sometimes, don't you?
Three times? So they are just really incompetent then?
Can you answer how you manage to conclude a vehicle with an aid sign on it that the organisation told you was an aid vehicle, is targeted "by mistake"?
Or perhaps the simple explanation is that they don't want aid delivered to innocent people.
"The IDF and defense ministry claimed that the aid workers' killing resulted from poor coordination. Israeli army sources later refuted their claims, saying the incident has 'no connection to coordination' and was caused by the fact that 'every commander sets the rules for himself'"
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
Diet Coke of Evil. Israel are the real deal.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
Yet it's Israel who've levelled Gaza. 32,000 murdered, 2 million left homeless and starving.
And what would Hamas do if it had the power? You are wilfully blind to this.
Live in the REAL world - it's actually Israel doing the mass-slaughtering.
Why are you unable to accept the nature of Hamas? Yes Israel has gone way over the top, and it needs to stop. But that doesn’t make Hamas somehow a bit less evil, except that’s how you seem to see it.
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
Why do you not have any doubt that Israel might have just messed up, your choosing to believe them despite their continuous lies is baffling to me unless you support war for war's sake.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
You're the one denying Israel might have just messed up, I'm the one saying they did. You're insisting, with no evidence, that it was deliberate.
A real peace can only follow an Israeli victory and the annihilation of Hamas. A ceasefire where Gaza returns to being a Hamas-run open air prison is no peace.
You will happily see innocent aid workers killed trying to get aid to innocent people in order to radicalise a new generation of nutjobs.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.
Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.
I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.
They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.
If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.
The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.
Why are you unable to accept the nature of Hamas? Yes Israel has gone way over the top, and it needs to stop. But that doesn’t make Hamas somehow a bit less evil, except that’s how you seem to see it.
Hamas are evil but the current strategy is not going to stop their evil ideology. It will just make it worse.
As for your point about them wanting to wipe all Jews off the planet, Israel ARE on the way to wiping all of Gaza out.
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
Why do you not have any doubt that Israel might have just messed up, your choosing to believe them despite their continuous lies is baffling to me unless you support war for war's sake.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
You're the one denying Israel might have just messed up, I'm the one saying they did. You're insisting, with no evidence, that it was deliberate.
A real peace can only follow an Israeli victory and the annihilation of Hamas. A ceasefire where Gaza returns to being a Hamas-run open air prison is no peace.
You will happily see innocent aid workers killed trying to get aid to innocent people in order to radicalise a new generation of nutjobs.
You are a warmonger.
The nutjobs already exist.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.
Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.
I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.
They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.
If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.
The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.
Can't have the latter without the former.
So a tacit acknowledgment that this effort won't even work. What a load of rubbish.
Don't be a twat. We don't really know anything yet but possible explanations include deliberately targeting aid workers from countries whose support they need, targeting Hamas operatives who embed themselves with aid workers, a genuine honest to goodness mistake as in shouldn't have hit the vehicles at all, and being casual with collateral damage when hitting their enemies in war, or some other explanation
I'm with you 100% on the King and private property, that said.
They got it wrong THREE times? They are then at best staggeringly incompetent.
Perhaps. Who knows. Could easily be the case.
But if they are staggeringly incompetent then how does that square with your murderous bastards contention.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
You are a silly billy.
Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.
Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.
I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.
Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.
Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.
Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?
Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.
Paragraph.1. Correct, but proportionality has to be exercised
Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!
Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.
Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.
I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.
They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.
If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.
The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.
Can't have the latter without the former.
So a tacit acknowledgment that this effort won't even work. What a load of rubbish.
Why won't this effort work?
This effort only won't work if there's a premature ceasefire. I oppose a premature ceasefire as a result.
Interesting article about how horrible Florida is nowadays. Most of the people quoted in the article who are fleeing the state describe themselves as mainstream Republicans
Why are you unable to accept the nature of Hamas? Yes Israel has gone way over the top, and it needs to stop. But that doesn’t make Hamas somehow a bit less evil, except that’s how you seem to see it.
Hamas are evil but the current strategy is not going to stop their evil ideology. It will just make it worse.
As for your point about them wanting to wipe all Jews off the planet, Israel ARE on the way to wiping all of Gaza out.
That’s too strong. The awful casualty numbers (32,000? Assuming we accept figures from the Hamas administration) compared with a population of millions. Things are coming to a head, I suspect the international community has reached the limits of its toleration of Israel’s response.
Why are you unable to accept the nature of Hamas? Yes Israel has gone way over the top, and it needs to stop. But that doesn’t make Hamas somehow a bit less evil, except that’s how you seem to see it.
Hamas are evil but the current strategy is not going to stop their evil ideology. It will just make it worse.
As for your point about them wanting to wipe all Jews off the planet, Israel ARE on the way to wiping all of Gaza out.
If the current strategy of retaliation when attacked is not going to work what do you suggest would work and would you rather Israel had not retaliated.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.
Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.
I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.
They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.
If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.
The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.
Can't have the latter without the former.
It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.
The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
Diet Coke of Evil. Israel are the real deal.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
Yet it's Israel who've levelled Gaza. 32,000 murdered, 2 million left homeless and starving.
And what would Hamas do if it had the power? You are wilfully blind to this.
Live in the REAL world - it's actually Israel doing the mass-slaughtering.
Why are you unable to accept the nature of Hamas? Yes Israel has gone way over the top, and it needs to stop. But that doesn’t make Hamas somehow a bit less evil, except that’s how you seem to see it.
Hamas killed only c.300 Israelis between January 2008 and September 2023. Over the same period, Israel killed 6,400 Palestinians.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
They managed to "mistake" a vehicle they knew was for international aid, with a logo on the top that said it was for that purpose?
They are liars. They have lied and lied and lied.
Enough.
Don't be a twat. We don't really know anything yet but possible explanations include deliberately targeting aid workers from countries whose support they need, targeting Hamas operatives who embed themselves with aid workers, a genuine honest to goodness mistake as in shouldn't have hit the vehicles at all, and being casual with collateral damage when hitting their enemies in war, or some other explanation
I'm with you 100% on the King and private property, that said.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
You are a silly billy.
Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.
Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.
I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.
Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.
Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.
Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?
Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.
Paragraph.1. Correct, but proportionality has to be exercised
Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!
Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.
1. Agreed - and Israel is exercising it.
2. Agreed - which is why they need to be defeated and can't be negotiated with and there should be no ceasefire.
3. Precision strikes with limited collateral is just unachievable nonsense. Any strike always has collateral.
"WLabourhat I find really interesting about this MRP is that ..."
I find there is a need for some proofreading on this site.
Editing PB is one of my four full time jobs at the moment.
Plus editing on a phone is never fun.
What are your other jobs?
TSE is a part-time high-flier executive manager. AND a full-time over-priced fancy-footwear tester.
TSE is a manager? Do we know in what sort of business?
His business is extreme modesty & inexpensive, quiet shoes.
This is known.
Oh I see. Sounds sort of interesting.
I imagine TSE in Garfield Slippers.
Not a clue what TSE looks like or really anything about them.
sneak preview of TSE's slippers
Current footwear.
More money than sense!
Hey Sunil, was thinking of you just now as I’ve had a pleasant day train riding in Yorkshire. Originally planned to do a loop - Harrogate - York - Scarborough - Hull - Leeds - Harrogate but couldn’t make the connections work so I’ve just done the Scarborough line and back.
Nice one. I did both York to Scarborough and Hull to Scarborough back in 2017.
I used to get the train on that route quite often, lovely views.
One view I’m getting a lot of is waterlogged ploughed fields with hardly any growth.
And I’ve been seeing that in Staffs, Glos, Cheshire and North Wales too.
If Sunak is serious about the autumn I wondered if he’s factored in drought in Europe and monsoon in the British Isles causing food inflation to skyrocket again?
It's going to be a bad year for (arable) farmers.
Cows, sheep and pig don't seem to mind the rain so much. Pigs, because they'll survive any condition and eat anything. Cows, because they're hardy. Sheep; because they're too stoopid to die...
I don’t reckon sheep and cattle will enjoy this mud too much. Foot rot and getting stuck are likely to be issues.
As for pigs, maybe they’ll like the mud, but how much will their fodder cost? (That incidentally goes for cattle and lowland sheep too.)
Spuds an issue, too. One can't plant in a re-enactment of Third Wipers.
Brilliant. Only on PB could we have a link to Potato News Today. I have forwarded the link to HIGNFY for use in their next series.
Excellent publication, albeit it is (allegedly) just a front for Big Potato, and it's (allegedly) dastardly CEO, Mr. Potatohead.
Anyway, Potato News Today is all over THIS story, bird-dogged yesterday for PBers by yours truly:
PNT - Senators rally to defend the potato’s vegetable status amid USDA and HHS reclassification debate
In a striking show of unity, a group of 14 U.S. Senators has penned a letter to the heads of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), expressing vehement opposition to the potential reclassification of potatoes as grains in the forthcoming 2025-2030 Dietary Guidelines for Americans (DGAs).
The letter, addressed to Secretaries Tom Vilsack and Xavier Becerra, outlines a robust defense of the potato’s status as a vegetable.
SSI - Includes both senators from both Idaho ("Famous Potatoes") and Maine (another big spud producer).
Am personally curious to know why US Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) did NOT sign on, considering that a) her fellow WA US Sen. Maria Cantwell did, and WA Gov. Jay Inslee has also expressed support; and b) unlike Cantwell and Inslee, Patty is running for re-election in 2024.
I've never thought of potatoes as veg. More like pasta or rice.
Now I feel like I'm a weirdo.
Doesn't mean you are wrong. I said the first yesterday, and the second was what some of us said. But spuds would definitely fall on the bread etc or sitos side of the Ancient Greek opson/sitos dichotomy, had they known about spuds. Clever buggers, those Greeks.
Still wondering how some of us stave off scurvy and other diseases without eating their meat very fresh, very raw and very seal-y.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.
Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.
I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.
They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.
If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.
The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.
Can't have the latter without the former.
It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.
The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.
I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
They managed to "mistake" a vehicle they knew was for international aid, with a logo on the top that said it was for that purpose?
They are liars. They have lied and lied and lied.
Enough.
Don't be a twat. We don't really know anything yet but possible explanations include deliberately targeting aid workers from countries whose support they need, targeting Hamas operatives who embed themselves with aid workers, a genuine honest to goodness mistake as in shouldn't have hit the vehicles at all, and being casual with collateral damage when hitting their enemies in war, or some other explanation
I'm with you 100% on the King and private property, that said.
We know what the Israelis have told us.
Well we know what DSF said about UKSF activities in Afghan. And just like that case, I would wait to see what the enquiry throws up.
And speaking of which, how is that Judge-led Hamas enquiry into October 7th coming on. Still taking witness statements?
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.
Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.
I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.
They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.
If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.
The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.
Can't have the latter without the former.
It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.
The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.
I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.
Maybe Hamas should submit then?
Not suggesting that's what's happening, but funny how Israel is the only party getting any criticism here.
Interesting article about how horrible Florida is nowadays. Most of the people quoted in the article who are fleeing the state describe themselves as mainstream Republicans
"One of the first signs Barb Carter’s move to Florida wasn’t the postcard life she’d envisioned was the armadillo infestation in her home that caused $9,000 in damages. Then came a hurricane [...]"
They killed three lots of innocents - knowingly - targeting one man that they didn’t even know was there for certain.
According to their own briefing.
They love to kill innocent people not even involved in the war.
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I love your certainty, sat in a comfortable, safe, U.K. home, fed information from the news and social media. You might see it differently if you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who believe that your country shouldn’t exist and that you and all you kin should be murdered. And some of those neighbours launched a savage assault on civilians just six months ago.
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
In 6 months Israel has killed TWENTY times more people than Hamas have in 16 YEARS.
Yes, you keep saying that. Do you think that Hamas should be tackled? Do you think they are terrorists?
Do you think the IDF are terrorists? They've killed far more people, and left 2 million homeless and without enough food, water, power and comms.
Yes, what they are doing now seems vastly over the top. Now your turn about Hamas, who I note, you never answer questions about.
Diet Coke of Evil. Israel are the real deal.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
Yet it's Israel who've levelled Gaza. 32,000 murdered, 2 million left homeless and starving.
And what would Hamas do if it had the power? You are wilfully blind to this.
Live in the REAL world - it's actually Israel doing the mass-slaughtering.
Why are you unable to accept the nature of Hamas? Yes Israel has gone way over the top, and it needs to stop. But that doesn’t make Hamas somehow a bit less evil, except that’s how you seem to see it.
Hamas killed only c.300 Israelis between January 2008 and September 2023. Over the same period, Israel killed 6,400 Palestinians.
NB. This bar chart was NOT produced by Sunil Productions Inc.
Wondered what happened in 2014, so checked Wikipedia. Turns out Hamas fired a shit load of rockets at Israel, presumably filled with pretty flowers, or colour bombs. What? They were actual rockets, trying to kill Israelis? And that’s what started it? Looks a bit like 2023 dont it? On whose hands are all those Palestinian deaths?
Why are you unable to accept the nature of Hamas? Yes Israel has gone way over the top, and it needs to stop. But that doesn’t make Hamas somehow a bit less evil, except that’s how you seem to see it.
Hamas are evil but the current strategy is not going to stop their evil ideology. It will just make it worse.
As for your point about them wanting to wipe all Jews off the planet, Israel ARE on the way to wiping all of Gaza out.
There’s a risk of forgetting that sometimes military victory does bring about peace.
The Soviets ‘wiped out’ Koenigsberg. Did it make the Nazi threat worse?
"WLabourhat I find really interesting about this MRP is that ..."
I find there is a need for some proofreading on this site.
Editing PB is one of my four full time jobs at the moment.
Plus editing on a phone is never fun.
What are your other jobs?
TSE is a part-time high-flier executive manager. AND a full-time over-priced fancy-footwear tester.
TSE is a manager? Do we know in what sort of business?
His business is extreme modesty & inexpensive, quiet shoes.
This is known.
Oh I see. Sounds sort of interesting.
I imagine TSE in Garfield Slippers.
Not a clue what TSE looks like or really anything about them.
sneak preview of TSE's slippers
Current footwear.
More money than sense!
Hey Sunil, was thinking of you just now as I’ve had a pleasant day train riding in Yorkshire. Originally planned to do a loop - Harrogate - York - Scarborough - Hull - Leeds - Harrogate but couldn’t make the connections work so I’ve just done the Scarborough line and back.
Nice one. I did both York to Scarborough and Hull to Scarborough back in 2017.
I used to get the train on that route quite often, lovely views.
One view I’m getting a lot of is waterlogged ploughed fields with hardly any growth.
And I’ve been seeing that in Staffs, Glos, Cheshire and North Wales too.
If Sunak is serious about the autumn I wondered if he’s factored in drought in Europe and monsoon in the British Isles causing food inflation to skyrocket again?
It's going to be a bad year for (arable) farmers.
Cows, sheep and pig don't seem to mind the rain so much. Pigs, because they'll survive any condition and eat anything. Cows, because they're hardy. Sheep; because they're too stoopid to die...
I don’t reckon sheep and cattle will enjoy this mud too much. Foot rot and getting stuck are likely to be issues.
As for pigs, maybe they’ll like the mud, but how much will their fodder cost? (That incidentally goes for cattle and lowland sheep too.)
Spuds an issue, too. One can't plant in a re-enactment of Third Wipers.
Brilliant. Only on PB could we have a link to Potato News Today. I have forwarded the link to HIGNFY for use in their next series.
Excellent publication, albeit it is (allegedly) just a front for Big Potato, and it's (allegedly) dastardly CEO, Mr. Potatohead.
Anyway, Potato News Today is all over THIS story, bird-dogged yesterday for PBers by yours truly:
PNT - Senators rally to defend the potato’s vegetable status amid USDA and HHS reclassification debate
In a striking show of unity, a group of 14 U.S. Senators has penned a letter to the heads of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), expressing vehement opposition to the potential reclassification of potatoes as grains in the forthcoming 2025-2030 Dietary Guidelines for Americans (DGAs).
The letter, addressed to Secretaries Tom Vilsack and Xavier Becerra, outlines a robust defense of the potato’s status as a vegetable.
SSI - Includes both senators from both Idaho ("Famous Potatoes") and Maine (another big spud producer).
Am personally curious to know why US Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) did NOT sign on, considering that a) her fellow WA US Sen. Maria Cantwell did, and WA Gov. Jay Inslee has also expressed support; and b) unlike Cantwell and Inslee, Patty is running for re-election in 2024.
I've never thought of potatoes as veg. More like pasta or rice.
Now I feel like I'm a weirdo.
Doesn't mean you are wrong. I said the first yesterday, and the second was what some of us said. But spuds would definitely fall on the bread etc or sitos side of the Ancient Greek opson/sitos dichotomy, had they known about spuds. Clever buggers, those Greeks.
Still wondering how some of us stave off scurvy and other diseases without eating their meat very fresh, very raw and very seal-y.
You don't get scurvy eating spuds. Indeed they constitute one of the larger sources of vitamin C in the British diet.
That’s nonsense. Hamas are only limited by circumstance. They would wipe out every Jew in a heartbeat if they could.
I'm sure Israel have done a GREAT job of not creating a new generation of Jew haters.
Yes, they are rapidly creating the next army for Hamas. It’s not logical, and it’s self destructive behaviour.
I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.
They're not creating the next one at all, the next one already exists.
If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.
The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.
Can't have the latter without the former.
It would be easier to believe that would be the case if Israel were making the effort to provide sufficient food to civilians in the areas that they control.
The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.
I think many in the IDF want to stop aid in order to starve Gaza into submission. Certainly their actions look very much like this.
I have no doubt that many in the IDF want exactly that. But thankfully Israel, like us, doesn't let the hotheads run the show.
The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Hamas has only killed 1,700 people since 2008, even including 7/10.
You know full well, as many other people not myself, have made the point to you that the fake figures you keep peddling ignore eg Palestinians thrown off rooftops by Hamas etc
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
You are a silly billy.
Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.
Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.
I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.
Renegade death cults like Hamas can't be negotiated with, they either kill or they need to be killed.
Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.
Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?
Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.
Paragraph.1. Correct, but proportionality has to be exercised
Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!
Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.
1. Agreed - and Israel is exercising it.
2. Agreed - which is why they need to be defeated and can't be negotiated with and there should be no ceasefire.
3. Precision strikes with limited collateral is just unachievable nonsense. Any strike always has collateral.
1. Bollocks it is! 2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number). 3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich?
Comments
Or do Palestinian deaths mean nothing to you unless they're caused by Israelis?
Incidently the Battlefield Archaeologist Tony Pollard is currently running a DBP 'On This Day' on his facebook page as we are in the middle of the 70th anniversary of the siege. Today the Huguette enclave is crumbling after the collapse of Strong Point Francoise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
Ukraine possibly used a cheap, reliable, and inconspicuous light Cessna-style aircraft loaded with explosives for a kamikaze attack on a Russian drone factory in Tatarstan, Forbes reports.
The factory is ~ 1300 km (600 miles) from 🇺🇦 border.
https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1775614374205378832
No. Wait. There’s a problem there.
Seriously? Long range AAM/SAM attack on the next time Russians send their bombers to launch missiles against Ukraine.
They are liars. They have lied and lied and lied.
Enough.
Again easier to get widgets from Beijing today than it was from Birmingham, let alone Barcelona or Bordeaux in the past.
* Other websites are available.
You are really off the deep end here, it is depressing to see.
These people are vile, inhumane killers. Stop the arms sales and withdraw support now.
And the Poles will fight.
According to their own briefing.
Everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
We've made mistakes and killed innocents in war too, its tragic but it happens.
Tony Blair led Britain into a bombing campaign that even managed to kill Chinese citizens by bombing the Chinese embassy, let alone a vehicle. And embassies are more clearly identifiable fixed addresses, unlike vehicles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade
They had the support of virtually everyone in what they were doing. And they've cocked it up monumentally. Staggering.
Killing people in war ≠ murder.
Did Tony Blair "murder" a quarter of a million people by invading Iraq?
Let's just summarise, they are radicalising a whole new generation of nutjobs, wanting to level a city and kill countless mothers and children and now they are killing international citizens trying to deliver aid.
They are psychopaths and are clearly committing war crimes.
I expect the wrong people to be hit in war sometimes, don't you?
Renegade death cult ****s like Hamas should be measured on a different scale to a democratic Israel.
Your view since October 7th is that Israel can stop massacring foreign aid workers, women and children when off the scale bonkers, don't give a f*** death cult Hamas hand over their weapons, and that is is patently absurd.
I would have more time for Bibi if Hamas Grandees were falling out of Doha penthouse windows than Gaza hospitals were instead being levelled.
Can you answer how you manage to conclude a vehicle with an aid sign on it that the organisation told you was an aid vehicle, is targeted "by mistake"?
Or perhaps the simple explanation is that they don't want aid delivered to innocent people.
And why are foreign journalists banned from reporting from Gaza ?
You say that they ‘love to kill innocent people’. Sounds rather more like Hamas to me.
This whole situation is dreadful. But mistakes DO happen in war. The history of war is riddled with them.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
Hamas are led by sociopaths with no regard for human life - but at the moment, it’s not unreasonable to make the same judgment of Israel’s leaders.
Backing one side or the other is a fool’s game.
The world isn’t black and white.
I don’t know the answers, and you don’t either.
What if Russia calls France's bluff and the French army loses?
Russian Air defence is seriously useless when you look at the number of similar attacks on refineries etc.
And if they’re hostages, what’s the price of release?
Israel can stop its war when the war is over. That is either when Hamas hands over their weapons, or when they're all dead. Neither has happened yet.
Israel has been killing Hamas leaders outside of Gaza too, I assume you have applauded them for this, right?
Its not either/or, they should be doing both - and are.
An out of control Prime Minister, out of control Generals and out of control squaddies. It's a recipe for a full scale regional bloodbath.
Shit happens in war, its why wars should be the last resort.
I’d like to think that the two state solution would be the answer, but how they get there from here seems rather tricky.
A real peace can only follow an Israeli victory and the annihilation of Hamas. A ceasefire where Gaza returns to being a Hamas-run open air prison is no peace.
I'm with you 100% on the King and private property, that said.
The situation right now is appalling. We need a ceasefire, an end to the conflict and serious efforts to rebuild Gaza. Gaza needs a port, and a way of being a functioning state, not just a huge refugee camp.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000
You are a warmonger.
If there is a ceasefire and Gaza goes back to being blockaded, then the next one will exist.
The only way to end this cycle of violence is to break it. Total victory for Israel, the total destruction or unconditional surrender of Hamas, then a Marshall Plan style redevelopment for Palestinians so they have a bright future without wanting to throw their lives away killing Jews instead.
Can't have the latter without the former.
As for your point about them wanting to wipe all Jews off the planet, Israel ARE on the way to wiping all of Gaza out.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
But if they are staggeringly incompetent then how does that square with your murderous bastards contention.
Paragraph 2. Hello, this is a f*****' death cult they don't follow the Geneva Convention!
Paragraph 3. If you mean precision strikes killing bastards with limited collateral, hell yes. Razing the Iranian consulate in another sovereign state to the ground, not so much unless the aim is a full regional conflict with US intervention.
This effort only won't work if there's a premature ceasefire. I oppose a premature ceasefire as a result.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna142316
The Israeli failure to provide sufficient food to civilians in areas that they control makes it hard not to think that their intended endgame is a Gaza without any Palestinians, rather than only without Hamas.
Trump: Would you rather have the Black president or the white president? I think they want the white guy.
https://twitter.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1775562293243183121
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Israel-Palestine_fatalities_2008-2023.png
NB. This bar chart was NOT produced by Sunil Productions Inc.
2. Agreed - which is why they need to be defeated and can't be negotiated with and there should be no ceasefire.
3. Precision strikes with limited collateral is just unachievable nonsense. Any strike always has collateral.
Still wondering how some of us stave off scurvy and other diseases without eating their meat very fresh, very raw and very seal-y.
And speaking of which, how is that Judge-led Hamas enquiry into October 7th coming on. Still taking witness statements?
Not suggesting that's what's happening, but funny how Israel is the only party getting any criticism here.
Looks a bit like 2023 dont it?
On whose hands are all those Palestinian deaths?
The Soviets ‘wiped out’ Koenigsberg. Did it make the Nazi threat worse?
The question to ask is absent the IDF, at what point would Hamas have stopped on October 7th.
2. At what cost in lives, give me a number (whatever it takes isn't a number).
3. I said pushing bastards out of windows and the like. Have you never seen Munich?
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.