You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'mAn not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes. But who agreed that the current borders of the USA are sacrosanct. The Navajo?
The Navajo did sign a treaty with the US in 1868, yes.
And Egypt and Jordan have sign peace agreements with Israel too, without demanding their land back.
There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it.
Perhaps it will end with Israel annexing the WB and Gaza, and there's nothing wrong with that if that happens, but the Oslo accords said that the land would be negotiated between Israel and a future Palestinian state. I would like to see that happen, once Hamas are vanquished.
Egypt and Jordan relinquished their claims in favour of the State of Palestine in 1988.
International law doesn't work that way.
And Egypt had already signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979 predating that.
And again the Oslo Accords in 1993 signed by both Israel and the PLO agreed the future border was up for negotiations.
So why should the 1967 border, which predates 1979 and 1993 saying otherwise, be the border now?
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
Israel occupies those territories.
Indeed so, they are Occupied Territories outside their borders
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes. But who agreed that the current borders of the USA are sacrosanct. The Navajo?
The Navajo did sign a treaty with the US in 1868, yes.
Perfectly willingly. Do you happen to know the terms of the treaty and whether they were violated (clue: yes they were). I suggest you look it up. Not our finest moment.
"Our"??
Our as in inheritors/inhabitants of western liberal democracies.
Most Navajo accept the current borders of the US -- and they long ago were forced to stop warfare with traditional enemies, such as the Utes, so they accept those internal borders, too.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
Israel occupies those territories.
Indeed so, they are Occupied Territories outside their borders
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes. But who agreed that the current borders of the USA are sacrosanct. The Navajo?
The Navajo did sign a treaty with the US in 1868, yes.
Perfectly willingly. Do you happen to know the terms of the treaty and whether they were violated (clue: yes they were). I suggest you look it up. Not our finest moment.
I think you might be confusing this with earlier treaties signed between the British and North American tribal nations. And I had thought that it was the British intent to abide by those treaties that was one of the reasons for the Colonialists to seek their Independence.
My understanding was that British Imperial behaviour in North America was generally a bit better than in many other places - Australia, India, Caribbean, etc.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
I don't think that Israel has at present annexed Area C of the WB. This area was to be Palestinian controlled according to the Oslo Acords.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
What do you think about Kashmir?
I've never been an Indian citizen, and frankly I don't care.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
I've noted before that judicial rulings can be quite amusing, as the desire to excoriate a side or argument in appropriately dignified language can lead to some fun disconnect between expressed fury and sedate terminology.
I will have to add 'you are testing my credulity' to my list of euphemisms for 'We both know you are lying through your teeth'. From a Trump related decision today. The fact that the Defendant waited until a mere 17 days prior to the scheduled trial date...to file the motion, raises real questions about the sincerity and actual purpose of the motion...the circumstances, viewed as a whole, test this Court's credulity.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
What do you think about Kashmir?
I've never been an Indian citizen, and frankly I don't care.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
Israel occupies those territories.
Indeed so, they are Occupied Territories outside their borders
Yes I agree. Now what.
I think that the WB and Gaza should form a Palestinian State, as agreed in the Oslo Accords.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
What do you think about Kashmir?
I've never been an Indian citizen, and frankly I don't care.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
"Do whatever it takes to force Israel to end its war"?
Okayyy. So that would be all or some of the following:
* boycott, divestment, sanctions (to include rupture of diplomatic relations, freezing of assets, proscription of support, removal of British citizenship from British people who join Israeli armed forces)
* reversal of orientation regarding the Palestinian resistance - stop classifying its component organisations (there are more than one) as "terrorist" and start supporting them militarily
* adopt 3 points regarding Israel from Labour's 2019 manifesto under Jeremy Corbyn, namely
1. recognise Palestine, 2. end de facto immunity of Israeli war criminals from prosecution in British courts, 3. stop selling weapons for use against the Palestinians
?
The truth is that NO British government will do any of the above, and talk is cheap.
This is evident from the headline "Enough" when there was enough space to call for something specific.
All it says is beg Israel, oh most honourable owner of the inalienable right to self-defend, to please consider becoming a trifle nicer, should it find the time.
The obvious fucking question when someone advocates forcing Israel to do anything is how.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'mAn not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes. But who agreed that the current borders of the USA are sacrosanct. The Navajo?
The Navajo did sign a treaty with the US in 1868, yes.
And Egypt and Jordan have sign peace agreements with Israel too, without demanding their land back.
There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it.
Perhaps it will end with Israel annexing the WB and Gaza, and there's nothing wrong with that if that happens, but the Oslo accords said that the land would be negotiated between Israel and a future Palestinian state. I would like to see that happen, once Hamas are vanquished.
I don't think that's right. I don't think Gaza was ever part of Egypt. It was a part of mandate Palestine that was intended for an Arab state. I don't think there's been any subsequent agreement that supercedes that intent, so that is still the status quo, I believe.
You're right that Egypt didn't annex Gaza, though Jordan did annex the West Bank.
Of course Israel had withdrawn completely prior to 7 October 2023 from Gaza and the West Bank is the area where there are settlements and where the border is more likely to vary due to negotiations.
Whether that's by coincidence or not to the fact that Jordan had annexed that land is beyond my expertise.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
What do you think about Kashmir?
I've never been an Indian citizen, and frankly I don't care.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights, expelled or exterminated.
How does that go against any of what I said?
The Oslo Accords said that the future of Gaza and the West Bank is for negotiations. Its no longer Egyptian or Jordanian, but nor is it agreed to be Israeli, nor is it agreed to be Palestinian.
Yet you are acting as if it is one of those. Why?
I am simply saying the entire WB and Gaza lie outside the internationally agreed 1967 Israeli borders.
It lies outside anyone's internationally agreed borders, that's part of the problem.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
What do you think about Kashmir?
I've never been an Indian citizen, and frankly I don't care.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
Why do you care about the borders of Israel?
Because!
Do you think Russia should return Kaliningrad to Germany?
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
Israel occupies those territories.
Indeed so, they are Occupied Territories outside their borders
Yes I agree. Now what.
I think that the WB and Gaza should form a Palestinian State, as agreed in the Oslo Accords.
And do you agree that those borders should be negotiated, as agreed in the Oslo Accords?
Or are you choosing which bits you agree with and which you don't?
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'mAn not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes. But who agreed that the current borders of the USA are sacrosanct. The Navajo?
The Navajo did sign a treaty with the US in 1868, yes.
And Egypt and Jordan have sign peace agreements with Israel too, without demanding their land back.
There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it.
Perhaps it will end with Israel annexing the WB and Gaza, and there's nothing wrong with that if that happens, but the Oslo accords said that the land would be negotiated between Israel and a future Palestinian state. I would like to see that happen, once Hamas are vanquished.
The Oslo accords died on 11 September 2001.
What on earth does this bit mean: "There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it."?
Could you name some countries that have agreed to the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem, and perhaps some that have agreed to the Israeli annexation of West Jerusalem?
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
What do you think about Kashmir?
I've never been an Indian citizen, and frankly I don't care.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
Why do you care about the borders of Israel?
Because!
Do you think Russia should return Kaliningrad to Germany?
Why not? It's surrounded by NATO territory on three sides. Even better - divide it between Poland and Lithuania.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
What do you think about Kashmir?
I've never been an Indian citizen, and frankly I don't care.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
Why do you care about the borders of Israel?
Because!
Do you think Russia should return Kaliningrad to Germany?
Why not? It's surrounded by NATO territory on three sides. Even better - divide it between Poland and Lithuania.
Why would that be better? Don't the Germans have a right of return?
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'mAn not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes. But who agreed that the current borders of the USA are sacrosanct. The Navajo?
The Navajo did sign a treaty with the US in 1868, yes.
And Egypt and Jordan have sign peace agreements with Israel too, without demanding their land back.
There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it.
Perhaps it will end with Israel annexing the WB and Gaza, and there's nothing wrong with that if that happens, but the Oslo accords said that the land would be negotiated between Israel and a future Palestinian state. I would like to see that happen, once Hamas are vanquished.
The Oslo accords died on 11 September 2001.
What on earth does this bit mean: "There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it."?
Could you name some countries that have agreed to the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem, and perhaps some that have agreed to the Israeli annexation of West Jerusalem?
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'm not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes but Jordan and Egypt have relinquished their claims on WB and Gaza.
Israel agreed to the Oslo Accords which agreed that the future Israeli border is a matter for negotiations. You are acting as if Israeli is not entitled to any of the WB and Gaza, when that is not what the Oslo Accords agreed.
No country recognises the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem or Golan Heights.
Many Israelis do not support annexation of WB and Gaza, because that would Imperial the Jewish majority in Israel, unless the Palestinian citizens were either denied political rights , expelled or exterminated.
Not the point. Even the UN doesn't mandate Israel to "return" them.
It doesn't, but the UN also refuses to recognise Israels annexation of East Jerusalem..
Do you accept that at present Isael has not annexed WB and Gaza?
It has annexed the Golan Heights, and the WB Settlements.
What do you think about Kashmir?
I've never been an Indian citizen, and frankly I don't care.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
Why do you care about the borders of Israel?
Because!
Do you think Russia should return Kaliningrad to Germany?
Do you think Russia should return Crimea and the Donbas to Ukraine?
What comeback? He failed to become an MP no less than SEVEN times
Yes, but let's not kid ourselves that he has not been a significant political force before. And his little teasing act is eagerly lapped up in certain sections of the Tory party, and the leadership is right to sweat about that.
I've noted before that judicial rulings can be quite amusing, as the desire to excoriate a side or argument in appropriately dignified language can lead to some fun disconnect between expressed fury and sedate terminology.
I will have to add 'you are testing my credulity' to my list of euphemisms for 'We both know you are lying through your teeth'. From a Trump related decision today. The fact that the Defendant waited until a mere 17 days prior to the scheduled trial date...to file the motion, raises real questions about the sincerity and actual purpose of the motion...the circumstances, viewed as a whole, test this Court's credulity.
Not a good look when you are going before that court on a felony charge a week Monday. I wonder if, once selected, the jury will decide their credulity is being tested? Spoiler: all the juries to date - grand juries, E Jean Carroll jury - have found against him.
If he wants to avoid jail time following a guilty verdict, his lawyers have a strange way of demonstrating remorse.
You are delusional if you think they don't, or can be negotiated with.
I've proposed a solution to this cycle of violence, you have not.
You are just delusional, with no solutions.
So you think the US and UK are also delusional with no solutions?
Yes.
I think they're pandering to people like you, safe in the knowledge that they don't need to come up with a solution themselves.
You are unhinged.
No I'mAn not, I'm being a realist.
A real realist, not one of those fake ones who wants to kowtow to Russia.
Oh sod off with this Russia nonsense. You are a warmonger and you're lost.
War is necessary sometimes.
When faced by absolute evil, yes it needs to be destroyed at war sometimes.
You are an appeaser.
You think everyone on this board is an appeaser. You are crazy.
No I think only those who don't want Russia and Hamas defeated are appeasers.
I think I am the only PBer who wants both a free, secure Ukraine restored to its 1991 borders, and a free, secure Israel restored to its 1967 borders.
Not the only one. Me too.
Where do you stand on the whole North America thing.
I think those countries should stick to their internationally agreed borders too.
Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza following a war with its Arab neighbours. We whiteys annexed the United States of America following a conquest of the indigenous peoples.
If you want a return to 1967 borders then presumably you want a return of America to its 1492 state also.
The current borders of the USA are agreed internationally.
Israel has occupied the West Bank and Gaza but not annexed them. It has annexed East Jerusalem. Hence the WB and Gaza are referred to as Occupied Territories.
Yes. But who agreed that the current borders of the USA are sacrosanct. The Navajo?
The Navajo did sign a treaty with the US in 1868, yes.
And Egypt and Jordan have sign peace agreements with Israel too, without demanding their land back.
There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it.
Perhaps it will end with Israel annexing the WB and Gaza, and there's nothing wrong with that if that happens, but the Oslo accords said that the land would be negotiated between Israel and a future Palestinian state. I would like to see that happen, once Hamas are vanquished.
The Oslo accords died on 11 September 2001.
What on earth does this bit mean: "There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it."?
Could you name some countries that have agreed to the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem, and perhaps some that have agreed to the Israeli annexation of West Jerusalem?
I've noted before that judicial rulings can be quite amusing, as the desire to excoriate a side or argument in appropriately dignified language can lead to some fun disconnect between expressed fury and sedate terminology.
I will have to add 'you are testing my credulity' to my list of euphemisms for 'We both know you are lying through your teeth'. From a Trump related decision today. The fact that the Defendant waited until a mere 17 days prior to the scheduled trial date...to file the motion, raises real questions about the sincerity and actual purpose of the motion...the circumstances, viewed as a whole, test this Court's credulity.
Not a good look when you are going before that court on a felony charge a week Monday. I wonder if, once selected, the jury will decide their credulity is being tested? Spoiler: all the juries to date - grand juries, E Jean Carroll jury - have found against him.
If he wants to avoid jail time following a guilty verdict, his lawyers have a strange way of demonstrating remorse.
This particular trial is probably his best chance at an acquittal. So his desperation to delay it at all costs hopefully speaks volumes about how he views his chances, the flurry of spurious motions and other delay tactics seems far more than just being generally disruptive to proceedings.
Could someone tell me: has Britain banned the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine), founded by George Habash? It seems from this list that it may not have done. It seems it has only banned the PFLP-GC, namely the PFLP General Command, a separate organisation founded by Ahmed Jibril.
For the record, the PFLP participated in the events of 7 October, is part of the armed resistance in Gaza, and is secular.
Israloons may have a hard time screaming that the PFLP wants to kill all the Jews. My guess is it's probably got some Jewish members. It's certainly secular and wants a Palestinian state in which everyone has a vote on the same basis regardless of their ethnic or religious background.
Could someone tell me: has Britain banned the PFLP (Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine), founded by George Habash? It seems from this list that it may not have done. It seems it has only banned the PFLP-GC, namely the PFLP General Command, a separate organisation founded by Ahmed Jibril.
For the record, the PFLP participated in the events of 7 October, is part of the armed resistance in Gaza, and is secular.
Secular, probably due to Habash being a Christian.
I've noted before that judicial rulings can be quite amusing, as the desire to excoriate a side or argument in appropriately dignified language can lead to some fun disconnect between expressed fury and sedate terminology.
I will have to add 'you are testing my credulity' to my list of euphemisms for 'We both know you are lying through your teeth'. From a Trump related decision today. The fact that the Defendant waited until a mere 17 days prior to the scheduled trial date...to file the motion, raises real questions about the sincerity and actual purpose of the motion...the circumstances, viewed as a whole, test this Court's credulity.
Not a good look when you are going before that court on a felony charge a week Monday. I wonder if, once selected, the jury will decide their credulity is being tested? Spoiler: all the juries to date - grand juries, E Jean Carroll jury - have found against him.
If he wants to avoid jail time following a guilty verdict, his lawyers have a strange way of demonstrating remorse.
This particular trial is probably his best chance at an acquittal. So his desperation to delay it at all costs hopefully speaks volumes about how he views his chances, the flurry of spurious motions and other delay tactics seems far more than just being generally disruptive to proceedings.
It does need to jump through a particular legal hoop to qualify as a "felony" - basically showing Trump's intention to commit or conceal another crime. But there are 34 of these felony counts and the sum involved is $130,000 for porn star Stormy Daniels and $150,000 to Playboy model Karen McDougal - small beer in terms of Trump's other legal judgments, but not a small sum to jurors. You're going to hear a lot about "catch and kill" - paying off women to not publish their stories of affairs ahead of the 2016 election. Which to the jury might look a lot like "election interference". Unlike other Trump cases, neither the Prosecutor nor the Judge appear to have put a foot wrong yet.
As well as the entertainment of Stormy Daniel's testimony, you will also hear from Michael Cohen. He was Trump's lawyer who made the payments, has served prison time for lying for Trump, but is now an avowed enemy. The defence will try and trash his reputation, but in the Trump NY fraud trial, Judge Engoron went out of his way to paint him as one of the few credible witnesses in the whole trial.
More difficult to rubbish will be Hope Hicks, Trump's press secretary at the time - who testified to the Grand Jury that indicted Trump.
Also to the smutty delight of TSE - and potentially another Minion's style ringtone - is Trump's friend Mr. Pecker.
It's going to be a circus. At the end of it I expect we will have reference to "convicted felon and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump...."
Israel managed to target the wrong people three times. So are they just incredibly incompetent in your eyes?
Fog of war.
I expect the wrong people to be hit in war sometimes, don't you?
Three times? So they are just really incompetent then?
Can you answer how you manage to conclude a vehicle with an aid sign on it that the organisation told you was an aid vehicle, is targeted "by mistake"?
Or perhaps the simple explanation is that they don't want aid delivered to innocent people.
The same way as a Chinese embassy is targeted by mistake.
Shit happens in war, its why wars should be the last resort.
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
Why do you not have any doubt that Israel might have just messed up, your choosing to believe them despite their continuous lies is baffling to me unless you support war for war's sake.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
You're the one denying Israel might have just messed up, I'm the one saying they did. You're insisting, with no evidence, that it was deliberate.
A real peace can only follow an Israeli victory and the annihilation of Hamas. A ceasefire where Gaza returns to being a Hamas-run open air prison is no peace.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Emphasis added on all but the last, emphasis already added onto the last.
Israel managed to target the wrong people three times. So are they just incredibly incompetent in your eyes?
Fog of war.
I expect the wrong people to be hit in war sometimes, don't you?
Three times? So they are just really incompetent then?
Can you answer how you manage to conclude a vehicle with an aid sign on it that the organisation told you was an aid vehicle, is targeted "by mistake"?
Or perhaps the simple explanation is that they don't want aid delivered to innocent people.
The same way as a Chinese embassy is targeted by mistake.
Shit happens in war, its why wars should be the last resort.
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
Why do you not have any doubt that Israel might have just messed up, your choosing to believe them despite their continuous lies is baffling to me unless you support war for war's sake.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
You're the one denying Israel might have just messed up, I'm the one saying they did. You're insisting, with no evidence, that it was deliberate.
A real peace can only follow an Israeli victory and the annihilation of Hamas. A ceasefire where Gaza returns to being a Hamas-run open air prison is no peace.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Emphasis added on all but the last, emphasis already added onto the last.
Israel isn't satan, but they are barbaric savages. You don't surgically strike an aid convoy that is in direct communication with the IDF "accidentally". These are people that pour concrete into Palestinian water sources. This is a government that arms religious extremist settlers. You are as bad as the Putinbots constantly deflecting from Russia's murderous crimes on here.
Israel managed to target the wrong people three times. So are they just incredibly incompetent in your eyes?
Fog of war.
I expect the wrong people to be hit in war sometimes, don't you?
Three times? So they are just really incompetent then?
Can you answer how you manage to conclude a vehicle with an aid sign on it that the organisation told you was an aid vehicle, is targeted "by mistake"?
Or perhaps the simple explanation is that they don't want aid delivered to innocent people.
The same way as a Chinese embassy is targeted by mistake.
Shit happens in war, its why wars should be the last resort.
No, I’m not, so you can retract that. I desire peace in the Middle East as much as anyone else. I do not know what the answer is, but I am no war monger.
Why do you not have any doubt that Israel might have just messed up, your choosing to believe them despite their continuous lies is baffling to me unless you support war for war's sake.
If you wanted peace, it's time to accept this Israel Government will not deliver it. Pray that the nutjob leader gets removed and we stop international support to them. Ideally the US will step in to cut them off too.
You're the one denying Israel might have just messed up, I'm the one saying they did. You're insisting, with no evidence, that it was deliberate.
A real peace can only follow an Israeli victory and the annihilation of Hamas. A ceasefire where Gaza returns to being a Hamas-run open air prison is no peace.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
@BartholomewRoberts glad you are back - so do you continue to support Israel despite the innocent people they keep murdering?
Innocents die in war, the difference between Israel and Hamas is that Hamas targets innocents deliberately. Israel does not, though will inevitably sometimes make mistakes.
Israel also owns up to its mistakes, Hamas do not.
Part of the reason why Israel are in every way better than Hamas and why I support Israel continuing the fighting until Hamas is completely destroyed.
Collateral damage is tragic but not murder.
It knew who these people were and targeted them.
Israel has not even apologised.
You are off the deep end. Please come home.
The fact you need to lie to make your point, rather shows how weak your argument is, even on what should be a strong ground for you.
From BBC Verify: The IDF chief of general staff Herzi Halevi has issued a statement calling the attack "a mistake that followed a misidentification at night… it shouldn't have happened".
He said an investigation into the incident would be completed "in the next coming days".
When Israel kills an innocent its a mistake and they launch investigations into what went wrong, same as any other western nation. Hamas targets innocents.
Emphasis added on all but the last, emphasis already added onto the last.
Israel isn't satan, but they are barbaric savages. You don't surgically strike an aid convoy that is in direct communication with the IDF "accidentally". These are people that pour concrete into Palestinian water sources. This is a government that arms religious extremist settlers. You are as bad as the Putinbots constantly deflecting from Russia's murderous crimes on here.
Either the IDF is a highly competent and technologically advanced military deliberately targeting aid workers and civilians, a bunch of cowboys bombing anything that moves in Gaza, or so useless that they mistook an obvious aid convoy for Hamas.
At least those defending them are consistent in regard to nationality - no shits given whether Palestinian, British, Australian or Polish.
Comments
And Egypt had already signed a peace treaty with Israel in 1979 predating that.
And again the Oslo Accords in 1993 signed by both Israel and the PLO agreed the future border was up for negotiations.
So why should the 1967 border, which predates 1979 and 1993 saying otherwise, be the border now?
Many native Americans served in World War II, and sometimes brought unique skills, for example the code talkers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker
My understanding was that British Imperial behaviour in North America was generally a bit better than in many other places - Australia, India, Caribbean, etc.
Did you know, for a time, the first item on the list of contraband items that one was forbidden from taking into India wasn't drugs, or porn, or endangered species. No, sir! It was actually maps "incorrectly depicting the external borders of India", ie. showing Kashmir de facto divided between India, Pakistan and China.
I will have to add 'you are testing my credulity' to my list of euphemisms for 'We both know you are lying through your teeth'. From a Trump related decision today.
The fact that the Defendant waited until a mere 17 days prior to the scheduled trial date...to file the motion, raises real questions about the sincerity and actual purpose of the motion...the circumstances, viewed as a whole, test this Court's credulity.
Okayyy. So that would be all or some of the following:
* boycott, divestment, sanctions (to include rupture of diplomatic relations, freezing of assets, proscription of support, removal of British citizenship from British people who join Israeli armed forces)
* reversal of orientation regarding the Palestinian resistance - stop classifying its component organisations (there are more than one) as "terrorist" and start supporting them militarily
* adopt 3 points regarding Israel from Labour's 2019 manifesto under Jeremy Corbyn, namely
1. recognise Palestine,
2. end de facto immunity of Israeli war criminals from prosecution in British courts,
3. stop selling weapons for use against the Palestinians
?
The truth is that NO British government will do any of the above, and talk is cheap.
This is evident from the headline "Enough" when there was enough space to call for something specific.
Here's the body text:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/aid-workers-gaza-israel-killed-air-strike-b2522745.html
All it says is beg Israel, oh most honourable owner of the inalienable right to self-defend, to please consider becoming a trifle nicer, should it find the time.
The obvious fucking question when someone advocates forcing Israel to do anything is how.
Of course Israel had withdrawn completely prior to 7 October 2023 from Gaza and the West Bank is the area where there are settlements and where the border is more likely to vary due to negotiations.
Whether that's by coincidence or not to the fact that Jordan had annexed that land is beyond my expertise.
There are no internationally agreed borders here.
Or are you choosing which bits you agree with and which you don't?
What on earth does this bit mean: "There is no international agreement as to who owns that land, because Egypt and Jordan relinquished the land but Israel hasn't (yet) annexed it."?
Could you name some countries that have agreed to the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem, and perhaps some that have agreed to the Israeli annexation of West Jerusalem?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_separatum_(Jerusalem)
Israel doesn't make international law, whether by its declarations of annexation or by any other means. TREATIES make international law.
How about dividing Gaza between Israel and Egypt?
If he wants to avoid jail time following a guilty verdict, his lawyers have a strange way of demonstrating remorse.
The closest to a treaty covering it is the Oslo Accords which agrees the border as a matter for future negotiations.
For the record, the PFLP participated in the events of 7 October, is part of the armed resistance in Gaza, and is secular.
Israloons may have a hard time screaming that the PFLP wants to kill all the Jews. My guess is it's probably got some Jewish members. It's certainly secular and wants a Palestinian state in which everyone has a vote on the same basis regardless of their ethnic or religious background.
The DFLP is also secular.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine
As well as the entertainment of Stormy Daniel's testimony, you will also hear from Michael Cohen. He was Trump's lawyer who made the payments, has served prison time for lying for Trump, but is now an avowed enemy. The defence will try and trash his reputation, but in the Trump NY fraud trial, Judge Engoron went out of his way to paint him as one of the few credible witnesses in the whole trial.
More difficult to rubbish will be Hope Hicks, Trump's press secretary at the time - who testified to the Grand Jury that indicted Trump.
Also to the smutty delight of TSE - and potentially another Minion's style ringtone - is Trump's friend Mr. Pecker.
It's going to be a circus. At the end of it I expect we will have reference to "convicted felon and Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump...."
For more detailed background:
https://www.justsecurity.org/93916/guide-manhattan-trump-trial/#post-93981-_te5jh0be3hpw
If you're accusing me of being an extremist who won't admit Israel makes mistakes, I've said they do repeatedly in this thread alone. Emphasis added on all but the last, emphasis already added onto the last.
At least those defending them are consistent in regard to nationality - no shits given whether Palestinian, British, Australian or Polish.