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Sunak and stopping the boats – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,408

    Watching the Channel 4 documentary on Johnson, it is clear that all of us who has the instincts that Johnson would be TERRIBLE were absolutely spot on the money. Osborne and Cameron were absolutely right to try and stop him.

    I lost a moderate fortune betting on my conviction that Conservative MPs would not elect a man so patently unsuited to be Prime Minister. He had all Corbyn's faults and more.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,120
    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Other Brexits were available.

    And all of them were shit

    There are degrees of crap, though. I think most of us could have lived with a much closer relationship in which there was still an element of pooled sovereignty and we accepted the four freedoms. It's pretty certain that's where we are going to end up.
    I'm not sure that Britain will ever find a relationship with the EU that is stable and enduring until it has come to terms with its post-Imperial place in the world.

    Britain hasn't moved on from the period of Empire and so the EU was viewed in that context. This meant that, because we weren't the Imperial masters of the EU, we had to be the colonized victims. Until this changes Britain can never be comfortable with accepting any supra-national jurisdiction that enforces common rules.

    Even many pro-Europeans view the EU in a similar way, but they argue that a post-Imperial Britain is unable to make its own way in the world, and so has no choice but to be part of the EU. This is a product of a crisis in confidence in a post-Imperial Britain. The kind of mentality that would welcome Imperial domination out of fear.

    Another post-Imperial delusion was exposed most clearly during the Truss Ministry. The bequest of Empire has been spent, and the world does not owe Britain a living. If Britain wants to be able to have better public services and lower taxes then it has to earn the extra wealth to pay for it.

    Once Britain has dealt with its Imperial insecurity, guilt and delusions, then it will be ready to create a lasting relationship with the EU that is based on reality, self-confidence and enlightened self-interest.

    I personally hope that would be a close relationship, but who knows? It might not be.

    I think memories of Empire are very niche and largely confined to small sections of the Conservative party and other parts of the right. For me, memories of WW2 and the perception of Britain standing alone were a much more powerful driver of Brexit. Growing up, they were everywhere for my generation - our parents hid in shelters ands/or were evacuated, our grandfathers fought and our grandmothers worked on the home front, there were bomb sites everywhere. We had films, TV programmes, comics and books all about it and so on. It was embedded in our folk memory - and understandably so. Whether we stood alone or not is immaterial, it seemed as if we did - and if we did it once, why not again?

    That folk memory is dying now. The immediate contact has gone. For my kids' generation, WW2 is as remote as WW1 was for us. What's more, everything is just much more interconnected than it was, often at the press of a button. As a result, they just do not see the world in the same way - again, understandably so. That is going to fundamentally change how the UK sees itself in the coming years.

    I don’t think the ages line up for this explanation. I thought the oldest voters, those who remembered WW2, were strongly Remain. Leave voters were baby boomers.
    Boomers do though have second hand memories of WWII. It was a huge part of the culture growing up in the 50s and 60s.

    Entirely rose tinted ones, of course.
    Normally agree with you on most things @Nigelb but I was born in 1954 and WWII to us at school growing up was ancient history. Weird of course because it was much closer in time then than the 80s and 90s are to me now, but they seem much more recent. I guess because I lived them, but didn't live WWII.
    Interesting.
    I was born in the early 60s, and it was everywhere.

    I'll have to rethink that one. Any other 50s kids want to weigh in ?
    Yep, for me also: aforementioned Sunday movies usually with Kenneth More or Richard Todd, comics, Commando Books, Airfix & Frog models. Colditz & World at War in the 70s was a big slice of my tv viewing.

    Perhaps a case to be made that the myth making only got into its stride in the 60s? I exonerate WaW from the myth making charge.
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    George Galloway goes to town on the royal family.

    SOMETHING ROTTEN IS GOING ON IN THE PALACE…..???

    This is a couple days old but it really is George Galloway Mp crashing in to the #WhereIsKateMiddleton chat on a wrecking ball.

    He literally calls Prince William a cheat, , says the palace is hiding things regarding Kate Middleton and calls for proof of life.

    Well it’s Easter in 2 weeks. They said she’f be out by then so…,

    #KateGate #katespiracy

    https://x.com/GlowanneLee/status/1768939960042758331?s=20
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 532
    edited March 16

    Watching the Channel 4 documentary on Johnson, it is clear that all of us who has the instincts that Johnson would be TERRIBLE were absolutely spot on the money. Osborne and Cameron were absolutely right to try and stop him.

    BJ was a shit foreign secretary too - appointed by TMay.

    As for Cameron, he shouldn't have let BJ be an unofficial member of the cabinet when he was mayor of London. Cameron actually referred to BJ as someone who was going to be prime minister. I haven't got a link to this, but it stuck in the memory because he was referring to his fellow OE as someone who was definitely going to be PM.

    Aside from everything else, BJ "How many children have I fathered?" was an obvious security risk.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,820
    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    The Tories are all about divide and rule - it's howa corrupt oligarchy that has nothing in common with most of the population and is actively undermining their interests sustains itself in office. Hating on foreigners is a core plank of that strategy, Stop the Boats the latest iteration.

    I think that’s true. The people who bankroll the Tory Party don’t really care about immigration, they just knew it was a useful lever to pull to get us out of the EU. They created the hysteria with their newspapers and fed it and nurtured it in order to ultimately remove us from a supranational organisation that wasn’t afraid to curtail their power.

    I was in a McDonalds yesterday and the number of Asian males shuttling in and out, picking up orders for delivery, was striking. Here in Yvette Cooper’s constituency, where we’ve a lot of warehouses and logistics and stuff cos we’re where the A1 and M62 cross, the rise since Brexit of non-white faces in the streets and supermarkets is extremely noticeable. Whereas before immigrants were generally white Europeans. Poles, etc.

    I welcome it, it’s about time we caught up with the diversity of Leeds, for example. But it isn’t what most Brexit voters round here anticipated as a result of their Leave vote.
    Indeed. Though as I have pointed out endlessly the people who wanted the foreign to go home didn’t actually want to do the jobs the foreigners were doing. That’s why we need migration.

    Our society has decided that we all need the ability to click on our phone and have anything we like delivered quickly. That means we need an army of workers doing shitty jobs. So we want people delivering McDonalds but “I’m not getting a job delivering McDonalds”. So we have migrants but “how do we stop all these foreigners coming here and delivering my McDonalds”

    We can’t blame Covid for making people stupid. Many people pre-date Covid in that regard
    This isn't something unique to Britain.

    Britain is fairly average now for percentage of immigrants in the developed world, with about 14% of us born abroad. Canada, Australia, Switzerland are notably higher, as are Saudi and the UAE. We see this politically too, with migration being the hot topic in nearly all our countries. The exceptions are places like South Korea and Japan where the population pyramid is dangerously upside down.

    In a globalised world people want to move around, seeking out economic and social opportunity. There are many on here who have benefited from living abroad including posters who still do, and many more have friends or family from abroad. My own ancestors migrated to Australia in the 19th Century and back to England in the 1930's for example.

    Why should we deny such opportunity to others?

    The failure of migration policy is not so much the numbers but rather the failure to plan for such arrivals, and not just the PB obsession with housing, but also with programmes of integration and cultural assimilation.





    Agree apart from the fact that they have allowed far too many far too quickly and knackered everything. If done at a manageable rate it may have been ok but now people feel overrun in many areas and the services, housing , facilities have went to rat shit due to no planning and just opening the floodgates to any Tom , Dick or Harry regardless. Add the fact that many immigrants all crowd together and we see why we have so many issues.
    This highlights one of my points. Ayrshire has a falling population, even over a period when Scotlands population rose.

    https://www.ayrshire-today.co.uk/news/23791728.ayrshire-scotlands-census-shows-population-fall/

    Interesting. Likely employment based.
    Ayrshire coast is increasingly a retirement destination for Weegies. Older population = fewer kids.
    I intend to move to Ayrshire when I retire in a few years.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    For London, if you carry over your morning routine.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,120
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Is there an associated narcissistic multiple personality disorder?
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,647
    edited March 16

    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Other Brexits were available.

    And all of them were shit

    There are degrees of crap, though. I think most of us could have lived with a much closer relationship in which there was still an element of pooled sovereignty and we accepted the four freedoms. It's pretty certain that's where we are going to end up.
    I'm not sure that Britain will ever find a relationship with the EU that is stable and enduring until it has come to terms with its post-Imperial place in the world.

    Britain hasn't moved on from the period of Empire and so the EU was viewed in that context. This meant that, because we weren't the Imperial masters of the EU, we had to be the colonized victims. Until this changes Britain can never be comfortable with accepting any supra-national jurisdiction that enforces common rules.

    Even many pro-Europeans view the EU in a similar way, but they argue that a post-Imperial Britain is unable to make its own way in the world, and so has no choice but to be part of the EU. This is a product of a crisis in confidence in a post-Imperial Britain. The kind of mentality that would welcome Imperial domination out of fear.

    Another post-Imperial delusion was exposed most clearly during the Truss Ministry. The bequest of Empire has been spent, and the world does not owe Britain a living. If Britain wants to be able to have better public services and lower taxes then it has to earn the extra wealth to pay for it.

    Once Britain has dealt with its Imperial insecurity, guilt and delusions, then it will be ready to create a lasting relationship with the EU that is based on reality, self-confidence and enlightened self-interest.

    I personally hope that would be a close relationship, but who knows? It might not be.

    I think memories of Empire are very niche and largely confined to small sections of the Conservative party and other parts of the right. For me, memories of WW2 and the perception of Britain standing alone were a much more powerful driver of Brexit. Growing up, they were everywhere for my generation - our parents hid in shelters ands/or were evacuated, our grandfathers fought and our grandmothers worked on the home front, there were bomb sites everywhere. We had films, TV programmes, comics and books all about it and so on. It was embedded in our folk memory - and understandably so. Whether we stood alone or not is immaterial, it seemed as if we did - and if we did it once, why not again?

    That folk memory is dying now. The immediate contact has gone. For my kids' generation, WW2 is as remote as WW1 was for us. What's more, everything is just much more interconnected than it was, often at the press of a button. As a result, they just do not see the world in the same way - again, understandably so. That is going to fundamentally change how the UK sees itself in the coming years.

    I don’t think the ages line up for this explanation. I thought the oldest voters, those who remembered WW2, were strongly Remain. Leave voters were baby boomers.
    Boomers do though have second hand memories of WWII. It was a huge part of the culture growing up in the 50s and 60s.

    Entirely rose tinted ones, of course.
    Normally agree with you on most things @Nigelb but I was born in 1954 and WWII to us at school growing up was ancient history. Weird of course because it was much closer in time then than the 80s and 90s are to me now, but they seem much more recent. I guess because I lived them, but didn't live WWII.
    Interesting.
    I was born in the early 60s, and it was everywhere.

    I'll have to rethink that one. Any other 50s kids want to weigh in ?
    Yes it is not as if I didn't know about it. We played in bomb sites, there were endless films, etc, but I didn't experience rationing (not in my memory anyway) and there was now a greater fear of the cold war and being wiped out by the bomb and we had 60s music which was a world away from WWII. And I don't recall many speaking of their experiences. Many because they weren't in the front line and those that were, weren't keen to do so eg a friend of mine's father was a fighter pilot and said very little. I did get stories of the blitz and evacuations as my father's side were bombed out in London.
    Different experience for me, born in 1965. Everyone talked about what their grandparents did in the war. The war was everywhere in comics, films and TV. Many of those who lived through the war were still around and it was a big part of our national psyche even as a youngster. For me growing up in the 1970s it was still very much a defining point in British life. It certainly wasn't ancient history in any way.
    Ditto 6 years later. The War was a cultural touchstone. War films on telly on a Saturday afternoon, Airfix models, war comics. It was the past, but it was the defining past, it said what Britishness was… and by “it”, I mean a highly mythologised version of events.

    And it was also there more quietly in parents and grandparents, a sense that everything can be lost, a sense of hardship and making do.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    Colombian ambassador aims to boost exports to Korea to $1 bil.
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=370641

    Given their societal opposition to drugs, that's going to mean a lot of custard apples.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780
    edited March 16

    Watching the Channel 4 documentary on Johnson, it is clear that all of us who has the instincts that Johnson would be TERRIBLE were absolutely spot on the money. Osborne and Cameron were absolutely right to try and stop him.

    I lost a moderate fortune betting on my conviction that Conservative MPs would not elect a man so patently unsuited to be Prime Minister. He had all Corbyn's faults and more.
    Conservative MPs always knew Boris had huge faults, and he knew they knew. It's why he bottled going for it in 2016, it's why some supporters of his were pre-whinging about MPs potentially keeping him out of the top two and out of the Member vote in 2019, and it's why he managed to drop so much support despite a massive GE win that should have kept him safe until the next election.

    But despite all that from a purely practical standpoint it's easy to see why the MPs elected him. They thought he would be best able to see them win the next GE. And they were right.

    Yes it seems bound to have ended in a mess (if not as big a one as turned out), but their calculation in choosing him did work.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,003
    TOPPING said:

    When I was soldiering there were around a dozen Old Contemptibles living. I always wanted the Regiment to invite them for lunch but we never got round to it.

    My grandfather's first farm manager was a WW1 vet. He went in off the black in the 70s so I don't remember him but my grandfather said he spun many gripping dits including one about driving some horse drawn artillery through a minefield which featured a dead man's bare arse sticking out of the mud as one of his visual references for the "safe" route.

    I met quite a few WW2 veterans when I was a kid. My CCF instructor at school had jumped out of perfectly functional Dakota over Arnhem right into the middle of an SS Panzer Division when he was 18!
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,647

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    After the thrills of Cheltenham, I struggle to get excited about today's racing which has more than a touch of after the Lord Mayor's Show about it.

    Cheltenham highlighted and brought in to sharp focus some serious issues in British jumps racing but that's for other forums and other days.

    I was crunching some numbers around what may happen in the May local elections.

    In 2021, the Conservatives got a notional 36% of the vote with Labour on 29% and the Liberal Democrats on 17%. That was pretty good for the Conservatives and they were leading in the GE polls by around 8-10 points at the time so the local elections (which were of course two years in one with the 2020 and 2021 seats contested) weren't far off the national polling (you can often add 10 points to the LD number between national and local elections).

    Now, we have Labour leads of let's say 20 points and a crude 45-25-10 split betwen the Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrats. A 8-10 point lead has become a 20 point deficit so the swing is around 14%.

    If we assume both Conservative and Labour will underperform their Westminster numbers locally, we're probably looking at notional figures of Labour 42%, Conservatives 22% and Liberal Democrats 20%. In 1995 when the Conservatives lost 2000 councillors in a single night, the notional numbers were Lab 47%, Con 25%, LD 23%. - the shortfall is more Independents who are polling stronger on a "plague on all your houses" platform.

    There are over 5,000 seats being contested this time. There are no elections in Scotland apart from local by-elections and only the PCC contests in Wales so it's all about England which is, after all, where the GE is going to be decided.

    Eight Conservative controlled Districts have all their councillors up for elections - Basildon, Epping Forest, Fareham, Gloucester, Harlow, Havant, Nuneaton & Bedworth and Redditch. I think if you are looking at a barometer for Labour performance vs the Conservatives that would be the place to start.

    For the LDs the obvious target looks to be Dorset.

    Lewis Baston has suggested the Conservatives could lose half the seats they are defending - in 2023, they only lost 31% so it would be a further step down to lose half and no one seems clear how many each party is defending.

    A dog that isn't barking is the Police and Crime Commissioner elections. The latest Labour leaflet in Didcot&Wantage (Thames Valley) has a piece on it, but that's virtually the only reference I've seen to them. It's odd because if parties think they're not important, why are they bothering to even stand?
    The LibDems often don’t bother standing in the PCC elections these days.
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 532
    Truman said:

    George Galloway goes to town on the royal family.

    SOMETHING ROTTEN IS GOING ON IN THE PALACE…..???

    This is a couple days old but it really is George Galloway Mp crashing in to the #WhereIsKateMiddleton chat on a wrecking ball.

    He literally calls Prince William a cheat, , says the palace is hiding things regarding Kate Middleton and calls for proof of life.

    Well it’s Easter in 2 weeks. They said she’f be out by then so…,

    #KateGate #katespiracy

    https://x.com/GlowanneLee/status/1768939960042758331?s=20

    This is all about Gaza where a member of the royal family puts his knob.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    For London, if you carry over your morning routine.
    Yes I may have to “rein it in” on Delancey St, especially as the 29 bus goes past, with the top
    floor about six feet from my Juliet balconies

    Bit of a shock for commuters there

    I am sadly uneager to return. Not averse to nipping home but not desperately missing it either. I really want to see friends and family, of course. But Britain?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,120
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    When I was soldiering there were around a dozen Old Contemptibles living. I always wanted the Regiment to invite them for lunch but we never got round to it.

    My grandfather's first farm manager was a WW1 vet. He went in off the black in the 70s so I don't remember him but my grandfather said he spun many gripping dits including one about driving some horse drawn artillery through a minefield which featured a dead man's bare arse sticking out of the mud as one of his visual references for the "safe" route.

    I met quite a few WW2 veterans when I was a kid. My CCF instructor at school had jumped out of perfectly functional Dakota over Arnhem right into the middle of an SS Panzer Division when he was 18!
    I hope he took out a couple of Jagdpanthers with a Boys AT rifle (or at least told you so).
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780
    Donkeys said:



    ydoethur said:

    https://twitter.com/iLepikVonWiren/status/1768741842424561841/photo/1

    Medvedev calling for the Latvian president to be hanged.

    I await the tankies' response. "Latvia should be part of Russia!" "Latvia should give in to Russia for peace!", etc, etc....

    I was thinking about Medvedev, as compared to Trump.

    One is a psychotic bully who randomly incites vengeance against his political enemies, threatens to invade any country he doesn't like, makes huge amounts of money through theft and fraud, was only elevated to power as a shady play by the FSB/Putin, hates Ukrainians more than is healthy and is rather urgently wanted for many crimes which he avoids by playing procedural games with the courts.

    The other is the former President of... the USA.

    Be honest, that wasn't the punchline you expected, was it?
    Medvedev does seem to have become a nutter. See for example this spew of sarcasm he came out with recently, rather as if he's not taking the war seriously. I can't imagine that plays well in the Russian population. He may not have long left on the Security Council.
    It is hard to see what exactly he is adding to the Putin regime at this point. They have plenty of politicians and media figures who can be rowdy and blustering about the war after all.

    Notably, despite being Vladimir's temporary President once, his Prime Minister for a long time, and his official deputy on the Security Council, a BBC piece awhile back on Putin's inner circle did not include him as someone to note.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60573261
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    Without that bitter and damp chill to compare it to, would you be able to enjoy that tropical sun quite so much?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780
    Ghedebrav said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    So if Mordaunt loses her seat it’s the moment the penny dropped. Other notable headline possibilities:

    - Call off the Hunt
    - Hands down
    - Mercer-less
    - Jacob and sons now depending on farming to earn their keep
    - Mel strides off the stage

    Shapps, Redwood and IDS also at risk
    I try not to be mean or vindictive in politics, but I would struggle to hide my delight if Redwood lost his seat.
    Schadenfreude exists for a good reason sometimes.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,820
    Nigelb said:

    Colombian ambassador aims to boost exports to Korea to $1 bil.
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=370641

    Given their societal opposition to drugs, that's going to mean a lot of custard apples.

    Do the webcams of, err, "ladies of negotiable states of undress" count as an export?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780

    Have we got an exit poll from Moscow yet?

    Putin 90%. Exiting through 10th floor windows 10%.
    Turnout I would think would be an interesting one, depending on to what extent they manage things in Russia (eg rely on excluding opposition figures/unequal media/intimidation, ballot stuffing, or just plain old lies).
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    For London, if you carry over your morning routine.
    Yes I may have to “rein it in” on Delancey St, especially as the 29 bus goes past, with the top
    floor about six feet from my Juliet balconies

    Bit of a shock for commuters there

    I am sadly uneager to return. Not averse to nipping home but not desperately missing it either. I really want to see friends and family, of course. But Britain?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    I would say the uk has some of the most depressed people in the world. A toxic combination of rampant individualism social atomisation, depressing towns, falling living standards, declining public services and miserable weather.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    For London, if you carry over your morning routine.
    Yes I may have to “rein it in” on Delancey St, especially as the 29 bus goes past, with the top
    floor about six feet from my Juliet balconies

    Bit of a shock for commuters there

    I am sadly uneager to return. Not averse to nipping home but not desperately missing it either. I really want to see friends and family, of course. But Britain?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    Do it while working your flint and you could claim to be following the ancient practices of your craft.

    Make it a regular habit and you might feature in Camden's tourist guide.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,627
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    Without that bitter and damp chill to compare it to, would you be able to enjoy that tropical sun quite so much?
    The sun is shining in Yorkshire today. This is spring. It lifts the spirits. No need for a tropical miasma.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,255
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    For London, if you carry over your morning routine.
    Yes I may have to “rein it in” on Delancey St, especially as the 29 bus goes past, with the top
    floor about six feet from my Juliet balconies

    Bit of a shock for commuters there

    I am sadly uneager to return. Not averse to nipping home but not desperately missing it either. I really want to see friends and family, of course. But Britain?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    You'll be reassured to know that everything has got worse here in the three months you have been travelling.
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    Without that bitter and damp chill to compare it to, would you be able to enjoy that tropical sun quite so much?
    The sun is shining in Yorkshire today. This is spring. It lifts the spirits. No need for a tropical miasma.
    Have you seen the forecast for the next 2 weeks. Not good
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641

    slade said:

    The Lib Dems are in York today and tomorrow for their Spring conference. What are the odds on any mention in the media?

    Are there any surprises being revealed in policy terms? (genuine question) I do think they need some distinctive policies to avoid being squeezed too hard by centrist Starmer. I know lots of people who see no difference bewtween LibDems and Labour whatsoever except for liking PR (and I don't think that similarity is a good thing for either party).
    A proposal to copy Biden’s share buyback tax at 4%, raising around 4bn.

    Nice idea in theory but:

    - The UK’s stockmarkets are already badly lagging the US for new listings and on valuation and this wouldn’t help
    - behavioural change means it would probably raise less than the intended tax (though the behavioural change could be good if it means more profits reinvested)
    - Companies can already pay dividends with no withholding tax so that’s an easy alternative, although it doesn’t have the same EPS effect.
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    This is a great monologue about the housing crisis.

    https://x.com/DominicFrisby/status/1765669218085720116?s=20
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,780
    Foxy said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    For London, if you carry over your morning routine.
    Yes I may have to “rein it in” on Delancey St, especially as the 29 bus goes past, with the top
    floor about six feet from my Juliet balconies

    Bit of a shock for commuters there

    I am sadly uneager to return. Not averse to nipping home but not desperately missing it either. I really want to see friends and family, of course. But Britain?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    I would say the uk has some of the most depressed people in the world. A toxic combination of rampant individualism social atomisation, depressing towns, falling living standards, declining public services and miserable weather.
    Could be worse, could be Russia.
    It's not much of a consolation.

    I don't think we're as bad as Truman says, but the last few years I have become much more pessimistic - the inability to do even basic things with public services being a big part of that, everything just seems too much for us.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,627
    Truman said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    Without that bitter and damp chill to compare it to, would you be able to enjoy that tropical sun quite so much?
    The sun is shining in Yorkshire today. This is spring. It lifts the spirits. No need for a tropical miasma.
    Have you seen the forecast for the next 2 weeks. Not good
    Indeed. Still below zero most nights over there in Moscow.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255
    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    For London, if you carry over your morning routine.
    Yes I may have to “rein it in” on Delancey St, especially as the 29 bus goes past, with the top
    floor about six feet from my Juliet balconies

    Bit of a shock for commuters there

    I am sadly uneager to return. Not averse to nipping home but not desperately missing it either. I really want to see friends and family, of course. But Britain?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    I would say the uk has some of the most depressed people in the world. A toxic combination of rampant individualism social atomisation, depressing towns, falling living standards, declining public services and miserable weather.
    I’m a patriotic Brit. I hate agreeing with this. But I agree with this. Add in rampant immigration altering cities and towns overnight in ways no one wanted or asked - indeed we voted explicitly AGAINST this with Brexit

    I believe - to an extent - that poll putting Britain 2&: to Uzbekistan for global misery. I don’t think we are really the 2nd worst in the world but we are in an absolute pit of despondency; I’ve never known anything like it - maybe the 70s but it’s so long ago and a different world

    For this reason, above all others, the Tories really are going to be obliterated in 2024. I then expect Labour to be obliterated in short order, as well
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    ydoethur said:

    Vaughan Gething wins by 51.7-48.3

    First black leader of a European country/province, apparently.

    First non-Welsh speaking FM.

    I think Welsh Labour have made the, er, 'courageous' choice. He was the Humza Yousaf (as defined by Kate Forbes) of that contest.

    18,000 Welsh Labour (including trade Union) members - turnout of about 57%. So around 10,000 people picked him.

    How do you know the numbers? According to the BBC Welsh Labour never reveal turnout.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    edited March 16
    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267

    ydoethur said:

    Vaughan Gething wins by 51.7-48.3

    First black leader of a European country/province, apparently.

    First non-Welsh speaking FM.

    I think Welsh Labour have made the, er, 'courageous' choice. He was the Humza Yousaf (as defined by Kate Forbes) of that contest.

    18,000 Welsh Labour (including trade Union) members - turnout of about 57%. So around 10,000 people picked him.

    How do you know the numbers? According to the BBC Welsh Labour never reveal turnout.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-68569230?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65f578154268143d286d31b7&How did the vote break down?&2024-03-16T11:01:43.442Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:2f6eaef6-08f3-417e-8d25-5019850d2ccd&pinned_post_asset_id=65f578154268143d286d31b7&pinned_post_type=share
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Truman said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    For London, if you carry over your morning routine.
    Yes I may have to “rein it in” on Delancey St, especially as the 29 bus goes past, with the top
    floor about six feet from my Juliet balconies

    Bit of a shock for commuters there

    I am sadly uneager to return. Not averse to nipping home but not desperately missing it either. I really want to see friends and family, of course. But Britain?

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    I would say the uk has some of the most depressed people in the world. A toxic combination of rampant individualism social atomisation, depressing towns, falling living standards, declining public services and miserable weather.
    Could be worse, could be Russia.
    It's not much of a consolation.

    I don't think we're as bad as Truman says, but the last few years I have become much more pessimistic - the inability to do even basic things with public services being a big part of that, everything just seems too much for us.
    I wonder whether he has named himself after the great American President who fought the communists? Or perhaps it's to reflect the fact he feels he's living inside his own show being watched 24 hours a day.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,031
    On memories of WW2, I was at primary school in the late 1970s, when a youngish teacher told the class about us about the sound of the V1 buzz bombs. Later, there was a TV series for kids about life during WW2. I cannot remember its name, but one late episode included the husband reading about the Hiroshima bombing and being shocked by it.

    More personally, my granddad served, but did not speak much about his time. My maternal grandmother did as well, in the underground Liverpool place. My dad was a kid during the war, and only in the last couple of decades has he really started talking about his own memories.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    Putin’s ‘step-by-step plan to bring West to brink of WW3’ revealed in leaked intel doc… (January 15, 2024)
    https://the-sun.com/news/10095868/putin-plan-west-ww3-leaked-2025/
    "With climax in the summer of 2025 on "Day X" when half a million NATO and Russian soldiers will face each other."


    https://x.com/Very_0wn/status/1750065961477300484?s=20
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,210
    Foxy said:

    How Covid made us more stupid: even mild infection ‘leads to fall in IQ’
    A large-scale study suggests the virus may have affected the intelligence of millions of people

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-covid-made-the-world-stupider-5qvz6sbhj (£££)

    Not just more stupid either. Damage to the frontal lobe affects impulse control, reduces empathy, increases aggression, affects forward planning etc.

    Just what the world needs.
    I still have not had Covid.

    Just saying.

    Thanks for the header @Topping.

    Off to my new allotment to pull out a lot of stinging nettles. There are worse ways to spend a Saturday.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,647
    I think the other thing to recall about the cultural shadow of WW2 in the ‘70s and ‘80s is that we also lived with the fear of an impending WW3. It could feel like we were in an interglacial period between inevitable world wars. The story of WW2 as something we as a nation not only survived but won was amplified.
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    Truman said:

    Putin’s ‘step-by-step plan to bring West to brink of WW3’ revealed in leaked intel doc… (January 15, 2024)
    https://the-sun.com/news/10095868/putin-plan-west-ww3-leaked-2025/
    "With climax in the summer of 2025 on "Day X" when half a million NATO and Russian soldiers will face each other."


    https://x.com/Very_0wn/status/1750065961477300484?s=20

    This assessment suggests russia will win the ukraine war by june.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    I wish no ill on my fellow citizens in Harris, Harlech, or Huddersfield. Or Helens. I want them all to thrive. I have lots of family in Scotland and good friends in wales apart from anything else

    I genuinely think devolution has been bad for wales and Scotland as it has entrenched single parties in power for far too long. At least if the Nats lose next time Scotland might catch a break
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,101

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    Without that bitter and damp chill to compare it to, would you be able to enjoy that tropical sun quite so much?
    The sun is shining in Yorkshire today. This is spring. It lifts the spirits. No need for a tropical miasma.
    Nature coming back to life in the new year is always a delight - snowdrops, daffodils, blossom, bluebells - every week there's something new to see.
  • Options
    CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 222

    On memories of WW2, I was at primary school in the late 1970s, when a youngish teacher told the class about us about the sound of the V1 buzz bombs. Later, there was a TV series for kids about life during WW2. I cannot remember its name, but one late episode included the husband reading about the Hiroshima bombing and being shocked by it.

    More personally, my granddad served, but did not speak much about his time. My maternal grandmother did as well, in the underground Liverpool place. My dad was a kid during the war, and only in the last couple of decades has he really started talking about his own memories.

    I really feel like the lessons of the 20th century, both from the Russian revolution, ww1 and 2, holocaust, the cold war.... all that stuff is lost. The norms and ideals that came out of those conflicts. When I look at jingoistic and polpulistic nationalism and revamping of great power competition.... we are heading for a new tragedy.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,723
    Truman said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    ..

    Ghedebrav said:

    Rory and Alastair rank post-war Prime Ministers on The Rest is Politics (for five minutes)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzxKFyJoze8&t=680s

    I appalled myself recently when I realised that it is quite possible that the second best PM since Blair may well be Boris.

    He did less damage (somehow) than Cameron*, and certainly was better (somehow) than Truss or Sunak. I’m just not sure where to rank him round May or Brown - difficult as I feel like the latter two are people I feel personally warmer to, whereas Spaffer revolts me.


    *Cameron I see as the worst PM in my lifetime, just ahead of Thatcher and Liz ‘History’s Most Expensive Asterisk’ Truss.
    I just don't see Johnson anywhere except at the bottom of the heap. I don't like Cameron, however like Blair he is characterised by starkly misjudged foreign policy, but beyond that there was competence and levity. Johnson was punctuated by such a series of egregious scandals, but more than that his time in office was all about being seen through smoke and mirrors, claiming world beating competence out of his incompetence; "I got all the big calls right" (did you, bollocks!).

    However Johnson's malignancy is best borne out by the culture he brought with him and stamped on the Party and the Country. His legacy is a damaged party and "broken Britain".
    David Cameron is the Conservative Prime Minister from central casting. Smooth, personable, even handsome in a certain light; Eton and Oxford; socially liberal. You could imagine him played by Hugh Grant in a hit romcom.

    Leaving foreign policy to one side, Cameron's shadow cabinet spent five years preparing for government, yet gave us a health policy (Lansley's reforms) that was disowned and reversed by Cameron, a social policy, Universal Credit, whose introduction was a shambles, and which was undermined by the Chancellor, an economic policy that killed the recovery inherited from Labour and destroyed any prospect of growth, and that left debt at record levels. Local government was starved of funds. Traditional Tory values were thrown to the wolves as police and defence were cut.

    Cameron was also bad at retail politics, at which he was supposed to shine. His relentlessly negative campaign style converted healthy leads over Labour into a hung parliament, almost lost Scotland and did lose Europe. (And before anyone points to 2015, that Conservative victory was due to the SNP driving Labour out of Scotland, not Cameron.)

    Worst of all is Cameron's gerrymandering, tampering with the electoral system for partisan advantage. Ironically, it would probably cause Brexit and the end of Cameron's ministry.

    David Cameron was our worst prime minister since Lord North.
    All valid points, but when one looks at the gravitas of Cameron on the World stage today compared to the bumbling embarrassment that was Johnson and the barely sane nincompoop that is Truss, he ascends the list.
    "... bumbling embarrassment that was Johnson"

    When it comes to world events, Johnson did excellently on Ukraine. Incidentally, so did May, over Salisbury.
    We'll have to agree to disagree.

    My view, and it is my own cynical opinion piece, is Johnson got Ukraine right because it was the last chance saloon for saving his skin. I suppose whatever the justification, the call was correct. Nonetheless now the party is over his visits to Kyiv are less frequent, and what was he doing meeting Madura last month?

    The appeal of Ukraine to Johnson and other tories was the chance to bask in the reflected glow of a war without any politically inconvenient British Gruz 200s landing back at Brize. All it cost Johson was other people's money which, as we all know, is his preferred type of money.

    For a bit there, when the Russians discovered they couldn't do US-style high mobility, combined arms offensives, it was all very exciting for the tories. Now that the Ukrainians have also discovered that they can't do US-style high mobility, combined arms offensives, it's all gone a bit boring and the UK government is losing interest.
    That seems to be the military lesson of the war. Offensive combined operations require a level of training, equipment supply and airpower not sustainable for anyone other than the US military. That said the Russians were successful initially, albeit followed by massive retreats and defeats too. The battle experience of their troops in warfare recognisable to my Grandfather on the Somme may be of little use in other wars.
    Both sides are trying to wear each other out in the hope the other gives up. Neither has any intention of giving up. In that respect the situation is like WW1.

    The choice for the West at this time, I think, is to do nothing and allow the Russians slowly to grind its way to Kyiv destroying everything in its path or to support Ukraine at scale to keep Russia at bay. I know which option I would choose.

    In any case Germany was ultimately defeated in 1918, as it needed to be.
    Even if the west gives plenty of help you still have the ultimate problem of lack of ukrainian soldiers. How much of their young men are ukraine prepared to sacrifice and is it right we should expect them to make all the sacrifice rather than sending in our own young men.
    You don't seem to care too much about "your" young men.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    Truman said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    Without that bitter and damp chill to compare it to, would you be able to enjoy that tropical sun quite so much?
    The sun is shining in Yorkshire today. This is spring. It lifts the spirits. No need for a tropical miasma.
    Have you seen the forecast for the next 2 weeks. Not good
    Indeed. Still below zero most nights over there in Moscow.
    Are we sure that Truman isn't just Leon's ChatGTP experiment to emulate a Russian troll ?
    Two clues would be its unusual self-restraint on 'controversial' topics, and Leon's atypical engagement.

    An unlikely idea, but I thought I'd put it out there.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,371
    kle4 said:

    Have we got an exit poll from Moscow yet?

    Putin 90%. Exiting through 10th floor windows 10%.
    Turnout I would think would be an interesting one, depending on to what extent they manage things in Russia (eg rely on excluding opposition figures/unequal media/intimidation, ballot stuffing, or just plain old lies).
    I very much doubt it's a secret ballot in any meaningful sense.

    There'll be measures to trace exactly who cast any vote the wrong way - just in case.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,210

    I thought Brown was a poor PM, but I am glad it was him and Darling in charge when the crash happened and not any of their successors.

    One day I will tell the true story behind the Treasury's responsibility for the RBS disaster. As with so many such stories, they knew there was a problem long before 2008 but chose to do nothing.

    Brown should not be allowed to get credit for a situation he could have prevented. He was not blameless - and, no, I am not referring to the regulatory architecture which has been discussed endlessly on here.
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,225
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British
    no
    I wish no ill on my fellow citizens in Harris, Harlech, or Huddersfield. Or Helens. I want them all to thrive. I have lots of family in Scotland and good friends in wales apart from anything else

    I genuinely think devolution has been bad for wales and Scotland as it has entrenched single parties in power for far too long. At least if the Nats lose next time Scotland might catch a break
    I genuinely think that FPTP at Westminster has been bad for all of the UK, as it has entrenched single parties in power for far too long. At least if the Tories lose next time, the UK might catch a break.

    BTW any thoughts on The Economist article about the Barclays? I mean I know you have no connection with any Barclays publications, but interested to hear your view nonetheless...
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,031
    Truman said:

    Truman said:

    Putin’s ‘step-by-step plan to bring West to brink of WW3’ revealed in leaked intel doc… (January 15, 2024)
    https://the-sun.com/news/10095868/putin-plan-west-ww3-leaked-2025/
    "With climax in the summer of 2025 on "Day X" when half a million NATO and Russian soldiers will face each other."


    https://x.com/Very_0wn/status/1750065961477300484?s=20

    This assessment suggests russia will win the ukraine war by june.
    Define 'win'.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British
    no
    I wish no ill on my fellow citizens in Harris, Harlech, or Huddersfield. Or Helens. I want them all to thrive. I have lots of family in Scotland and good friends in wales apart from anything else

    I genuinely think devolution has been bad for wales and Scotland as it has entrenched single parties in power for far too long. At least if the Nats lose next time Scotland might catch a break
    I genuinely think that FPTP at Westminster has been bad for all of the UK, as it has entrenched single parties in power for far too long. At least if the Tories lose next time, the UK might catch a break.

    BTW any thoughts on The Economist article about the Barclays? I mean I know you have no connection with any Barclays publications, but interested to hear your view nonetheless...
    Not read it and have no special desire to, TBH
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,820
    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    Devolution has been a success. The point of devolution is to allow different policies to be pursued in different places, not "one size fits all".
    Of course, everyone will disagree subjectively as to whether Scotland, or Wales or Westminster has the best policies on any particular topic, e.g. health, education, the water industry, but the fact there are differences is the important thing.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,791

    Melton Mowbray Sainsbury is currently cash only due to a techno breakdown and the cash point machines ain't working either. Utter carnage!

    Hopefully you're not telling porkies!

    (I thank you!)
    Cheesy joke ...
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 936
    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255
    edited March 16
    Truman said:

    Truman said:

    Putin’s ‘step-by-step plan to bring West to brink of WW3’ revealed in leaked intel doc… (January 15, 2024)
    https://the-sun.com/news/10095868/putin-plan-west-ww3-leaked-2025/
    "With climax in the summer of 2025 on "Day X" when half a million NATO and Russian soldiers will face each other."


    https://x.com/Very_0wn/status/1750065961477300484?s=20

    This assessment suggests russia will win the ukraine war by june.
    It’s cleverly compelling, even as propaganda

    …. Apart from the fact it was “leaked” in January and the mobilisation of February hasn’t happened. Oops
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,791

    Scott_xP said:

    Other Brexits were available.

    And all of them were shit

    There are degrees of crap, though. I think most of us could have lived with a much closer relationship in which there was still an element of pooled sovereignty and we accepted the four freedoms. It's pretty certain that's where we are going to end up.
    I'm not sure that Britain will ever find a relationship with the EU that is stable and enduring until it has come to terms with its post-Imperial place in the world.

    Britain hasn't moved on from the period of Empire and so the EU was viewed in that context. This meant that, because we weren't the Imperial masters of the EU, we had to be the colonized victims. Until this changes Britain can never be comfortable with accepting any supra-national jurisdiction that enforces common rules.

    Even many pro-Europeans view the EU in a similar way, but they argue that a post-Imperial Britain is unable to make its own way in the world, and so has no choice but to be part of the EU. This is a product of a crisis in confidence in a post-Imperial Britain. The kind of mentality that would welcome Imperial domination out of fear.

    Another post-Imperial delusion was exposed most clearly during the Truss Ministry. The bequest of Empire has been spent, and the world does not owe Britain a living. If Britain wants to be able to have better public services and lower taxes then it has to earn the extra wealth to pay for it.

    Once Britain has dealt with its Imperial insecurity, guilt and delusions, then it will be ready to create a lasting relationship with the EU that is based on reality, self-confidence and enlightened self-interest.

    I personally hope that would be a close relationship, but who knows? It might not be.

    I think memories of Empire are very niche and largely confined to small sections of the Conservative party and other parts of the right. For me, memories of WW2 and the perception of Britain standing alone were a much more powerful driver of Brexit. Growing up, they were everywhere for my generation - our parents hid in shelters ands/or were evacuated, our grandfathers fought and our grandmothers worked on the home front, there were bomb sites everywhere. We had films, TV programmes, comics and books all about it and so on. It was embedded in our folk memory - and understandably so. Whether we stood alone or not is immaterial, it seemed as if we did - and if we did it once, why not again?

    That folk memory is dying now. The immediate contact has gone. For my kids' generation, WW2 is as remote as WW1 was for us. What's more, everything is just much more interconnected than it was, often at the press of a button. As a result, they just do not see the world in the same way - again, understandably so. That is going to fundamentally change how the UK sees itself in the coming years.

    I don’t think the ages line up for this explanation. I thought the oldest voters, those who remembered WW2, were strongly Remain. Leave voters were baby boomers.
    Mrs T and her Cabinet were pro EU, on the whole. Many of them had served in the armed forces in WW2 (Mrs T wasn't conscripted, but that would be, presumably, because she was doing a chemistry degree - regarded as of strategic importance - and the war ended before she got into her third year or so).
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,791
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    I wish no ill on my fellow citizens in Harris, Harlech, or Huddersfield. Or Helens. I want them all to thrive. I have lots of family in Scotland and good friends in wales apart from anything else

    I genuinely think devolution has been bad for wales and Scotland as it has entrenched single parties in power for far too long. At least if the Nats lose next time Scotland might catch a break
    "entrenched single parties in power for far too long"

    PB Expert on Scotland can't tell the difference between FPTP majorities and minority administrations under the Holyrood voting system.
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279

    kle4 said:

    Have we got an exit poll from Moscow yet?

    Putin 90%. Exiting through 10th floor windows 10%.
    Turnout I would think would be an interesting one, depending on to what extent they manage things in Russia (eg rely on excluding opposition figures/unequal media/intimidation, ballot stuffing, or just plain old lies).
    I very much doubt it's a secret ballot in any meaningful sense.

    There'll be measures to trace exactly who cast any vote the wrong way - just in case.
    I dont think they will go that far because they dont need to. Putin is if not popular at least respected in russia and indeed more respected than many western leaders in their own countries at present. Of course it helps that any inconvenient opposition always seems to mysteriously disappear.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,635
    edited March 16

    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Other Brexits were available.

    And all of them were shit

    There are degrees of crap, though. I think most of us could have lived with a much closer relationship in which there was still an element of pooled sovereignty and we accepted the four freedoms. It's pretty certain that's where we are going to end up.
    I'm not sure that Britain will ever find a relationship with the EU that is stable and enduring until it has come to terms with its post-Imperial place in the world.

    Britain hasn't moved on from the period of Empire and so the EU was viewed in that context. This meant that, because we weren't the Imperial masters of the EU, we had to be the colonized victims. Until this changes Britain can never be comfortable with accepting any supra-national jurisdiction that enforces common rules.

    Even many pro-Europeans view the EU in a similar way, but they argue that a post-Imperial Britain is unable to make its own way in the world, and so has no choice but to be part of the EU. This is a product of a crisis in confidence in a post-Imperial Britain. The kind of mentality that would welcome Imperial domination out of fear.

    Another post-Imperial delusion was exposed most clearly during the Truss Ministry. The bequest of Empire has been spent, and the world does not owe Britain a living. If Britain wants to be able to have better public services and lower taxes then it has to earn the extra wealth to pay for it.

    Once Britain has dealt with its Imperial insecurity, guilt and delusions, then it will be ready to create a lasting relationship with the EU that is based on reality, self-confidence and enlightened self-interest.

    I personally hope that would be a close relationship, but who knows? It might not be.

    I think memories of Empire are very niche and largely confined to small sections of the Conservative party and other parts of the right. For me, memories of WW2 and the perception of Britain standing alone were a much more powerful driver of Brexit. Growing up, they were everywhere for my generation - our parents hid in shelters ands/or were evacuated, our grandfathers fought and our grandmothers worked on the home front, there were bomb sites everywhere. We had films, TV programmes, comics and books all about it and so on. It was embedded in our folk memory - and understandably so. Whether we stood alone or not is immaterial, it seemed as if we did - and if we did it once, why not again?

    That folk memory is dying now. The immediate contact has gone. For my kids' generation, WW2 is as remote as WW1 was for us. What's more, everything is just much more interconnected than it was, often at the press of a button. As a result, they just do not see the world in the same way - again, understandably so. That is going to fundamentally change how the UK sees itself in the coming years.

    I don’t think the ages line up for this explanation. I thought the oldest voters, those who remembered WW2, were strongly Remain. Leave voters were baby boomers.
    Boomers do though have second hand memories of WWII. It was a huge part of the culture growing up in the 50s and 60s.

    Entirely rose tinted ones, of course.
    Normally agree with you on most things @Nigelb but I was born in 1954 and WWII to us at school growing up was ancient history. Weird of course because it was much closer in time then than the 80s and 90s are to me now, but they seem much more recent. I guess because I lived them, but didn't live WWII.
    Interesting.
    I was born in the early 60s, and it was everywhere.

    I'll have to rethink that one. Any other 50s kids want to weigh in ?
    Yes it is not as if I didn't know about it. We played in bomb sites, there were endless films, etc, but I didn't experience rationing (not in my memory anyway) and there was now a greater fear of the cold war and being wiped out by the bomb and we had 60s music which was a world away from WWII. And I don't recall many speaking of their experiences. Many because they weren't in the front line and those that were, weren't keen to do so eg a friend of mine's father was a fighter pilot and said very little. I did get stories of the blitz and evacuations as my father's side were bombed out in London.
    Different experience for me, born in 1965. Everyone talked about what their grandparents did in the war. The war was everywhere in comics, films and TV. Many of those who lived through the war were still around and it was a big part of our national psyche even as a youngster. For me growing up in the 1970s it was still very much a defining point in British life. It certainly wasn't ancient history in any way.
    There seems to be a very different and consistent story here for those of us born in the 50s compared to those born in the 60s. In fact I can see no deviation whatsoever in anyone's stories here for 50s kids and a different but consistent story for the 60s kids.

    I suspect this is because of time and the generation. For children born in the 50s it is our parents generation who were fighting (or not) during the war. For the 60s kids it was the generation before and their parents were children during the war and for them the war was probably more of an exciting experience than a horror.

    Most people from my parents generation didn't actually fight. As with most wars there is far more supporting activities than actually fighting. Of those that did few tell their stories. Two of whom I knew, one was a fighter pilot and all he would say was that he was terrified every time he took off and the other was blown up in a tank in North Africa. He was the only survivor from the tank crew. He never spoke of it. I only know because of his leg injury and the life long PTSD he suffered.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,120

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    Devolution has been a success. The point of devolution is to allow different policies to be pursued in different places, not "one size fits all".
    Of course, everyone will disagree subjectively as to whether Scotland, or Wales or Westminster has the best policies on any particular topic, e.g. health, education, the water industry, but the fact there are differences is the important thing.

    Devolution has been relatively successful in the old keeping the binfire that is the Tories away from power area. Unfortunately that has its regional limitations.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,791

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Other Brexits were available.

    And all of them were shit

    There are degrees of crap, though. I think most of us could have lived with a much closer relationship in which there was still an element of pooled sovereignty and we accepted the four freedoms. It's pretty certain that's where we are going to end up.
    I'm not sure that Britain will ever find a relationship with the EU that is stable and enduring until it has come to terms with its post-Imperial place in the world.

    Britain hasn't moved on from the period of Empire and so the EU was viewed in that context. This meant that, because we weren't the Imperial masters of the EU, we had to be the colonized victims. Until this changes Britain can never be comfortable with accepting any supra-national jurisdiction that enforces common rules.

    Even many pro-Europeans view the EU in a similar way, but they argue that a post-Imperial Britain is unable to make its own way in the world, and so has no choice but to be part of the EU. This is a product of a crisis in confidence in a post-Imperial Britain. The kind of mentality that would welcome Imperial domination out of fear.

    Another post-Imperial delusion was exposed most clearly during the Truss Ministry. The bequest of Empire has been spent, and the world does not owe Britain a living. If Britain wants to be able to have better public services and lower taxes then it has to earn the extra wealth to pay for it.

    Once Britain has dealt with its Imperial insecurity, guilt and delusions, then it will be ready to create a lasting relationship with the EU that is based on reality, self-confidence and enlightened self-interest.

    I personally hope that would be a close relationship, but who knows? It might not be.

    I think memories of Empire are very niche and largely confined to small sections of the Conservative party and other parts of the right. For me, memories of WW2 and the perception of Britain standing alone were a much more powerful driver of Brexit. Growing up, they were everywhere for my generation - our parents hid in shelters ands/or were evacuated, our grandfathers fought and our grandmothers worked on the home front, there were bomb sites everywhere. We had films, TV programmes, comics and books all about it and so on. It was embedded in our folk memory - and understandably so. Whether we stood alone or not is immaterial, it seemed as if we did - and if we did it once, why not again?

    That folk memory is dying now. The immediate contact has gone. For my kids' generation, WW2 is as remote as WW1 was for us. What's more, everything is just much more interconnected than it was, often at the press of a button. As a result, they just do not see the world in the same way - again, understandably so. That is going to fundamentally change how the UK sees itself in the coming years.

    I don’t think the ages line up for this explanation. I thought the oldest voters, those who remembered WW2, were strongly Remain. Leave voters were baby boomers.
    Boomers do though have second hand memories of WWII. It was a huge part of the culture growing up in the 50s and 60s.

    Entirely rose tinted ones, of course.
    Normally agree with you on most things @Nigelb but I was born in 1954 and WWII to us at school growing up was ancient history. Weird of course because it was much closer in time then than the 80s and 90s are to me now, but they seem much more recent. I guess because I lived them, but didn't live WWII.
    Interesting.
    I was born in the early 60s, and it was everywhere.

    I'll have to rethink that one. Any other 50s kids want to weigh in ?
    Yep, for me also: aforementioned Sunday movies usually with Kenneth More or Richard Todd, comics, Commando Books, Airfix & Frog models. Colditz & World at War in the 70s was a big slice of my tv viewing.

    Perhaps a case to be made that the myth making only got into its stride in the 60s? I exonerate WaW from the myth making charge.
    Agree re WW2 being everywhere for that generation.

    Much less WW1, one might remark, though a fair bit of Biggles Flies Undone and similar tomes could be had in the children's books sections, adventure subsection, inj the 1960s. Possibly because the mythmaking had been seen through by then - it was a time when the likes of Taylor AJP and Clark A were getting their revisionist cutlery out; Oh what a loverly war movie begain as, on checking, a 1961 stage play, too.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,807

    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Other Brexits were available.

    And all of them were shit

    There are degrees of crap, though. I think most of us could have lived with a much closer relationship in which there was still an element of pooled sovereignty and we accepted the four freedoms. It's pretty certain that's where we are going to end up.
    I'm not sure that Britain will ever find a relationship with the EU that is stable and enduring until it has come to terms with its post-Imperial place in the world.

    Britain hasn't moved on from the period of Empire and so the EU was viewed in that context. This meant that, because we weren't the Imperial masters of the EU, we had to be the colonized victims. Until this changes Britain can never be comfortable with accepting any supra-national jurisdiction that enforces common rules.

    Even many pro-Europeans view the EU in a similar way, but they argue that a post-Imperial Britain is unable to make its own way in the world, and so has no choice but to be part of the EU. This is a product of a crisis in confidence in a post-Imperial Britain. The kind of mentality that would welcome Imperial domination out of fear.

    Another post-Imperial delusion was exposed most clearly during the Truss Ministry. The bequest of Empire has been spent, and the world does not owe Britain a living. If Britain wants to be able to have better public services and lower taxes then it has to earn the extra wealth to pay for it.

    Once Britain has dealt with its Imperial insecurity, guilt and delusions, then it will be ready to create a lasting relationship with the EU that is based on reality, self-confidence and enlightened self-interest.

    I personally hope that would be a close relationship, but who knows? It might not be.

    I think memories of Empire are very niche and largely confined to small sections of the Conservative party and other parts of the right. For me, memories of WW2 and the perception of Britain standing alone were a much more powerful driver of Brexit. Growing up, they were everywhere for my generation - our parents hid in shelters ands/or were evacuated, our grandfathers fought and our grandmothers worked on the home front, there were bomb sites everywhere. We had films, TV programmes, comics and books all about it and so on. It was embedded in our folk memory - and understandably so. Whether we stood alone or not is immaterial, it seemed as if we did - and if we did it once, why not again?

    That folk memory is dying now. The immediate contact has gone. For my kids' generation, WW2 is as remote as WW1 was for us. What's more, everything is just much more interconnected than it was, often at the press of a button. As a result, they just do not see the world in the same way - again, understandably so. That is going to fundamentally change how the UK sees itself in the coming years.

    I don’t think the ages line up for this explanation. I thought the oldest voters, those who remembered WW2, were strongly Remain. Leave voters were baby boomers.
    Boomers do though have second hand memories of WWII. It was a huge part of the culture growing up in the 50s and 60s.

    Entirely rose tinted ones, of course.
    Normally agree with you on most things @Nigelb but I was born in 1954 and WWII to us at school growing up was ancient history. Weird of course because it was much closer in time then than the 80s and 90s are to me now, but they seem much more recent. I guess because I lived them, but didn't live WWII.
    Interesting.
    I was born in the early 60s, and it was everywhere.

    I'll have to rethink that one. Any other 50s kids want to weigh in ?
    Yep, for me also: aforementioned Sunday movies usually with Kenneth More or Richard Todd, comics, Commando Books, Airfix & Frog models. Colditz & World at War in the 70s was a big slice of my tv viewing.

    Perhaps a case to be made that the myth making only got into its stride in the 60s? I exonerate WaW from the myth making charge.
    Banzai! Aieee! Britische pig-dog! For you, Tommy, ze var ist over! Ah, uniforms for goalposts... 😃
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,313
    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,208
    ...
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    So if Mordaunt loses her seat it’s the moment the penny dropped. Other notable headline possibilities:

    - Call off the Hunt
    - Hands down
    - Mercer-less
    - Jacob and sons now depending on farming to earn their keep
    - Mel strides off the stage

    Shapps, Redwood and IDS also at risk
    If those three were the only Tory losses it would still be a great night!
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,635
    edited March 16
    Walking the dog this morning in the Surrey Hills. Glorious views on a beautiful sunny Spring day. There are foxes and deer in the garden (which are sending our dog mad) as well as daffodils and the bluebells are coming through and life is good (except that the summer raspberries have had all their tips taken out by the deer).

    Much as I love to travel and would love to see many of the places Leon visits, I do look forward to coming home. Only some bits of the French countryside seem to match it, which I enjoy on my annual bike trips through France.
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    This is total nonsense. The ordinary british people have no say in how high immigration is.
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279
    kjh said:

    Walking the dog this morning in the Surrey Hills. Glorious views on a beautiful sunny Spring day. There are foxes and deer in the garden (which are sending our dog mad) as well as daffodils and the bluebells are coming through and life is good (except that the summer raspberries have had all their tips taken out by the deer).

    Much as I love to travel and would love to see many of the places Leon visits, I do look forward to coming home. Only some bits of the French countryside seem to match it, which I enjoy on my annual bike trips through France.

    You must have a big garden to have deer in it.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,820

    kle4 said:

    Have we got an exit poll from Moscow yet?

    Putin 90%. Exiting through 10th floor windows 10%.
    Turnout I would think would be an interesting one, depending on to what extent they manage things in Russia (eg rely on excluding opposition figures/unequal media/intimidation, ballot stuffing, or just plain old lies).
    I very much doubt it's a secret ballot in any meaningful sense.

    There'll be measures to trace exactly who cast any vote the wrong way - just in case.
    They already have the 99,999 names supporting each candidate who didn't make it on to the ballot paper.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,468
    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    But what we'd all really like- me included- is all the benefits of high immigration without its drawbacks. To have our cake and eat it, as someone once said. Whatever happened to him?

    (And one should always look for win-all-round scenarios. They're great. But they're also rare, and that's when politicians are meant to earn their wages, exploring the tradeoffs honestly.)
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,208
    JohnO said:

    Gething the new Welsh Labour leader.

    "There may be trouble ahead...
    Before the fiddlers have fled
    Before they ask us to pay the bill
    And while we still have the chance
    Let's face the music and dance"
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122
    Truman said:

    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    This is total nonsense. The ordinary british people have no say in how high immigration is.
    Only in the sense that they have no direct say in anything as we live in a representative democracy. The government decides immigration policy and people have the opportunity to vote for parties with draconian immigration policies and mostly choose not to.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,208
    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    You say you value the precise use of English. You need to find out what "dawn" means. It doesn't mean the same as sunrise.
    Is that the Tyne Bridge? Are you in the Gateshead Travelodge?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,635
    Truman said:

    kjh said:

    Walking the dog this morning in the Surrey Hills. Glorious views on a beautiful sunny Spring day. There are foxes and deer in the garden (which are sending our dog mad) as well as daffodils and the bluebells are coming through and life is good (except that the summer raspberries have had all their tips taken out by the deer).

    Much as I love to travel and would love to see many of the places Leon visits, I do look forward to coming home. Only some bits of the French countryside seem to match it, which I enjoy on my annual bike trips through France.

    You must have a big garden to have deer in it.
    2/3 acre and no boundary fencing except for the bit for our dog. Deer are very common. Once I had a strobe and high pitched emitter to detect and deter the deer from eating the raspberries, but my wife mowed it. Never seen the inside of a 9v battery before.

    They love roses which I don't mind them eating.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641

    Truman said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Morning. A grey pre-dawn light over Bolivar’s City of Death


    Doesn't Instagram still exist?

    On a completely unrelated note, have you heard of narcissistic personality disorder?
    Yes you’re right. Thanks for asking

    For the last 3 months solid (2 brief Feb days in
    London excepted) I’ve woken up to warm dry tropical sun. In Thailand, Cambodia or Colombia. Even when it’s too hot the mornings are always lovely - and yes you’re right, I get up and stroll naked into the morning sun on the balcony

    That is how humans are meant to wake and rise. Your spirits lift at once: the world is kind. The coffee charges the brain, and off you go

    London next week is going to be a horrible shock
    Without that bitter and damp chill to compare it to, would you be able to enjoy that tropical sun quite so much?
    The sun is shining in Yorkshire today. This is spring. It lifts the spirits. No need for a tropical miasma.
    Have you seen the forecast for the next 2 weeks. Not good
    Indeed. Still below zero most nights over there in Moscow.
    Meanwhile back in Britain it’s looking pretty decent for the next week or so:




  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,641
    Truman said:

    kjh said:

    Walking the dog this morning in the Surrey Hills. Glorious views on a beautiful sunny Spring day. There are foxes and deer in the garden (which are sending our dog mad) as well as daffodils and the bluebells are coming through and life is good (except that the summer raspberries have had all their tips taken out by the deer).

    Much as I love to travel and would love to see many of the places Leon visits, I do look forward to coming home. Only some bits of the French countryside seem to match it, which I enjoy on my annual bike trips through France.

    You must have a big garden to have deer in it.
    Red deer back in the fields above my vineyard yesterday. Beautiful things but terrors for vines.



    I WhatsApped the local gamekeeper to let him know and he’s promised to pop over and bag one for the pot this weekend.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,120

    JohnO said:

    Gething the new Welsh Labour leader.

    "There may be trouble ahead...
    Before the fiddlers have fled
    Before they ask us to pay the bill
    And while we still have the chance
    Let's face the music and dance"
    The notable thing to me about the £200k contribution to his leadership campaign from some dodge merchant or other was its size - seems an awful lot for a relatively small electoral event?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    I wish no ill on my fellow citizens in Harris, Harlech, or Huddersfield. Or Helens. I want them all to thrive. I have lots of family in Scotland and good friends in wales apart from anything else

    I genuinely think devolution has been bad for wales and Scotland as it has entrenched single parties in power for far too long. At least if the Nats lose next time Scotland might catch a break
    Ah for the halcyon days of long entrenched single party rule... Of parties the Scots and Welsh hadn't even voted for!
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,074

    Truman said:

    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    This is total nonsense. The ordinary british people have no say in how high immigration is.
    Only in the sense that they have no direct say in anything as we live in a representative democracy. The government decides immigration policy and people have the opportunity to vote for parties with draconian immigration policies and mostly choose not to.
    1997 Labour manifesto: "Every country must have firm control over immigration and Britain is no exception."

    2005 Labour manifesto: "We will ensure that only skilled workers are allowed to settle long-term in the UK, with English language tests for everyone who wants to stay permanently and an end to chain migration."

    2010 Conservative manifesto: "Immigration today is too high and needs to be reduced.... So we will take steps to take net migration back to the levels of the 1990s – tens of thousands a year, not hundreds of thousands."

    2015 Conservative manifesto: "We must work to control immigration and put Britain first"
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,284
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    But have a funny way of showing it.

    It’s striking how people who live or spend most of their time away from the country claim an excess of patriotism, as if they feel a need to compensate for something they are missing.
  • Options
    TrumanTruman Posts: 279

    Truman said:

    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    This is total nonsense. The ordinary british people have no say in how high immigration is.
    Only in the sense that they have no direct say in anything as we live in a representative democracy. The government decides immigration policy and people have the opportunity to vote for parties with draconian immigration policies and mostly choose not to.
    What parties are that. The old bnp maybe but then many people associated with it lost their jobs. We have patriotic alternative a small partyvnow designated as an extremist organisation.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,255
    Do Sunak's advisors do absolutely nothing other than tell him to brief the press that there will be an income tax cut soon every time a bad poll comes out?


  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,807
    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    Given the high numbers for Reform, it seems we are doing just that.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,627
    kjh said:

    Truman said:

    kjh said:

    Walking the dog this morning in the Surrey Hills. Glorious views on a beautiful sunny Spring day. There are foxes and deer in the garden (which are sending our dog mad) as well as daffodils and the bluebells are coming through and life is good (except that the summer raspberries have had all their tips taken out by the deer).

    Much as I love to travel and would love to see many of the places Leon visits, I do look forward to coming home. Only some bits of the French countryside seem to match it, which I enjoy on my annual bike trips through France.

    You must have a big garden to have deer in it.
    2/3 acre and no boundary fencing except for the bit for our dog. Deer are very common. Once I had a strobe and high pitched emitter to detect and deter the deer from eating the raspberries, but my wife mowed it. Never seen the inside of a 9v battery before.

    They love roses which I don't mind them eating.
    We back on to a paddock, and have had to put in additional fencing to keep the deer out of our garden. It was a real thrill the first time we saw one in the garden, but my wife was not best pleased at the destruction of the roses and other flowers.

    Still lovely to see them on the other side of the fence.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,208
    ydoethur said:

    Vaughan Gething wins by 51.7-48.3

    First black leader of a European country/province, apparently.

    First non-Welsh speaking FM.

    I think Welsh Labour have made the, er, 'courageous' choice. He was the Humza Yousaf (as defined by Kate Forbes) of that contest.

    18,000 Welsh Labour (including trade Union) members - turnout of about 57%. So around 10,000 people picked him.

    I suspect he will quickly unravel over the £200,000 donation. It may well be all above board, I suspect it is. Nonetheless the optics look terrible.

    Miles isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but he has less baggage.

    Welsh Labour can just thank the Lord for Andrew R T Davies.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,313
    Truman said:

    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    This is total nonsense. The ordinary british people have no say in how high immigration is.
    This is not a bad effort. It is certainly becoming more refined so I'd say keep at it.

    Some humour, perhaps, if that can be added.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,267
    TimS said:

    Truman said:

    kjh said:

    Walking the dog this morning in the Surrey Hills. Glorious views on a beautiful sunny Spring day. There are foxes and deer in the garden (which are sending our dog mad) as well as daffodils and the bluebells are coming through and life is good (except that the summer raspberries have had all their tips taken out by the deer).

    Much as I love to travel and would love to see many of the places Leon visits, I do look forward to coming home. Only some bits of the French countryside seem to match it, which I enjoy on my annual bike trips through France.

    You must have a big garden to have deer in it.
    Red deer back in the fields above my vineyard yesterday. Beautiful things but terrors for vines.



    I WhatsApped the local gamekeeper to let him know and he’s promised to pop over and bag one for the pot this weekend.
    I hope he can deal with them veni soon.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,313
    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    Given the high numbers for Reform, it seems we are doing just that.
    Oh yes. Not that I've seen the Reform platform.

    As I note in the header, we finally really wanted to Brexit so we Brexited.

    But to date not so much.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    But have a funny way of showing it.

    It’s striking how people who live or spend most of their time away from the country claim an excess of patriotism, as if they feel a need to compensate for something they are missing.
    I spent my first two decades in the UK, apart from a few continental holidays

    Since then I have always lived - been based - in England, mainly in London, with a couple of years in Cornwall, and that was the case for another three and a half decades

    The only occasions I have lived abroad in that time have been a few months in Thailand and a few months in Japan, and 2 months in Egypt (does that even count as "living abroad"?)

    Yes I travelled a lot but I always came back home. It's only in the last two years I have spent more than half the year outside the UK

    So in total I've done at least 55 years of living in the UK. and it is still my base, the only place I own property, it's where most of my family lives, many of my friends, my older daughter grows up there, and so on and so forth. Other than that, good point

    However I might well be fucking off now, Britain is too depressing
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,807
    TOPPING said:

    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    Given the high numbers for Reform, it seems we are doing just that.
    Oh yes. Not that I've seen the Reform platform.

    As I note in the header, we finally really wanted to Brexit so we Brexited.

    But to date not so much.
    Header?

    [rushes off to read header]
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255

    Truman said:

    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    This is total nonsense. The ordinary british people have no say in how high immigration is.
    Only in the sense that they have no direct say in anything as we live in a representative democracy. The government decides immigration policy and people have the opportunity to vote for parties with draconian immigration policies and mostly choose not to.
    No, this is a lie

    As @williamglenn notes, we consistently vote for parties that promise to "sort out" and reduce immigration, and then they never do. They lie. It is fucking outrageous and it is storing up grave trouble, the same way the endless lies about the EEC and the EU and Maastricht and Lisbon and "referendums, this time, I promise" let to the fatal rupture of Brexit

    In the end and if this continues, the Brits will vote for the far right - like every other European nation (and the USA)
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,543

    ydoethur said:

    Vaughan Gething wins by 51.7-48.3

    First black leader of a European country/province, apparently.

    First non-Welsh speaking FM.

    I think Welsh Labour have made the, er, 'courageous' choice. He was the Humza Yousaf (as defined by Kate Forbes) of that contest.

    18,000 Welsh Labour (including trade Union) members - turnout of about 57%. So around 10,000 people picked him.

    I suspect he will quickly unravel over the £200,000 donation. It may well be all above board, I suspect it is. Nonetheless the optics look terrible.

    Miles isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, but he has less baggage.

    Welsh Labour can just thank the Lord for Andrew R T Davies.
    I know nothing about Gething, and I'm none the wiser having read Wiki. What's his politics - is he a proper leftie like Drakeford? Is he likely to cause Starmer any political problems?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,284
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    But have a funny way of showing it.

    It’s striking how people who live or spend most of their time away from the country claim an excess of patriotism, as if they feel a need to compensate for something they are missing.
    I spent my first two decades in the UK, apart from a few continental holidays

    Since then I have always lived - been based - in England, mainly in London, with a couple of years in Cornwall, and that was the case for another three and a half decades

    The only occasions I have lived abroad in that time have been a few months in Thailand and a few months in Japan, and 2 months in Egypt (does that even count as "living abroad"?)

    Yes I travelled a lot but I always came back home. It's only in the last two years I have spent more than half the year outside the UK

    So in total I've done at least 55 years of living in the UK. and it is still my base, the only place I own property, it's where most of my family lives, many of my friends, my older daughter grows up there, and so on and so forth. Other than that, good point

    However I might well be fucking off now, Britain is too depressing
    TLDR: “Yes”
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,120
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    But have a funny way of showing it.

    It’s striking how people who live or spend most of their time away from the country claim an excess of patriotism, as if they feel a need to compensate for something they are missing.
    I spent my first two decades in the UK, apart from a few continental holidays

    Since then I have always lived - been based - in England, mainly in London, with a couple of years in Cornwall, and that was the case for another three and a half decades

    The only occasions I have lived abroad in that time have been a few months in Thailand and a few months in Japan, and 2 months in Egypt (does that even count as "living abroad"?)

    Yes I travelled a lot but I always came back home. It's only in the last two years I have spent more than half the year outside the UK

    So in total I've done at least 55 years of living in the UK. and it is still my base, the only place I own property, it's where most of my family lives, many of my friends, my older daughter grows up there, and so on and so forth. Other than that, good point

    However I might well be fucking off now, Britain is too depressing
    Who do you think you are kidding Mr. Woke,
    If you think we're on the run?
    We are the boys who will stop your little game.
    We are the boys who will make you think again.
    'Cause who do you think you are kidding Mr. Woke,
    If you think old England's done?

    However I might well be fucking off now, Britain is too depressing
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,429

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    When I was soldiering there were around a dozen Old Contemptibles living. I always wanted the Regiment to invite them for lunch but we never got round to it.

    My grandfather's first farm manager was a WW1 vet. He went in off the black in the 70s so I don't remember him but my grandfather said he spun many gripping dits including one about driving some horse drawn artillery through a minefield which featured a dead man's bare arse sticking out of the mud as one of his visual references for the "safe" route.

    I met quite a few WW2 veterans when I was a kid. My CCF instructor at school had jumped out of perfectly functional Dakota over Arnhem right into the middle of an SS Panzer Division when he was 18!
    I hope he took out a couple of Jagdpanthers with a Boys AT rifle (or at least told you so).
    PIAT, Shirley?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    But have a funny way of showing it.

    It’s striking how people who live or spend most of their time away from the country claim an excess of patriotism, as if they feel a need to compensate for something they are missing.
    I spent my first two decades in the UK, apart from a few continental holidays

    Since then I have always lived - been based - in England, mainly in London, with a couple of years in Cornwall, and that was the case for another three and a half decades

    The only occasions I have lived abroad in that time have been a few months in Thailand and a few months in Japan, and 2 months in Egypt (does that even count as "living abroad"?)

    Yes I travelled a lot but I always came back home. It's only in the last two years I have spent more than half the year outside the UK

    So in total I've done at least 55 years of living in the UK. and it is still my base, the only place I own property, it's where most of my family lives, many of my friends, my older daughter grows up there, and so on and so forth. Other than that, good point

    However I might well be fucking off now, Britain is too depressing
    Who do you think you are kidding Mr. Woke,
    If you think we're on the run?
    We are the boys who will stop your little game.
    We are the boys who will make you think again.
    'Cause who do you think you are kidding Mr. Woke,
    If you think old England's done?

    However I might well be fucking off now, Britain is too depressing
    I paid my dues to Blighty, and also millions in taxes. I am probably paying your state pension. You can thank me later
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,429
    Truman said:

    Truman said:

    TOPPING said:

    pm215 said:

    On topic, I don't think I agree with "Well, it appears that as a nation we like high immigration". I think it more likely that collectively we want multiple conflicting things: both lower immigration and less rapid cultural change, and also the economy to keep on motoring, driven by a supply of cheap labour. For political parties it appears to be easier to either try to keep one of the contradictory issues low salience or else make a performance of Doing Something which doesn't actually affect much, rather than try to persuade people about the consequences of what they want.

    Life is about allocation of scarce resource and prioritisation. We like high immigration in the sense that other things are more important. If we really didn't like it we'd put a stop to it.
    This is total nonsense. The ordinary british people have no say in how high immigration is.
    Only in the sense that they have no direct say in anything as we live in a representative democracy. The government decides immigration policy and people have the opportunity to vote for parties with draconian immigration policies and mostly choose not to.
    What parties are that. The old bnp maybe but then many people associated with it lost their jobs. We have patriotic alternative a small partyvnow designated as an extremist organisation.
    Perhaps they could try

    1) not being extremists?
    2) not making people who wear their underpants on other head, stick pencils up their noses and go wibble, seem sane.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,255
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I have a left leaning friend who spent some time working for the Tories in Cardiff Bay. Unsurprisingly it didn't work out but the reason she was prepared to do it was the desperate need for opposition in the place. Whether or not they can go it alone there is little chance of Labour being kicked out of office any time soon.

    If they need a coalition you can be sure that the minor party will get a hammering and we'll be back to Labour majority rule. Rinse and repeat.

    Devolution has been a disaster for Wales and Scotland: discuss

    I think it has. Well done new Labour
    I assume that is meant as a sarcastic remark about new Labour?

    Although knowing you perhaps it is sincere. What with this being the final weekend of the 6 nations are you drinking to the celts misery?
    I’m Cornish! And patriotically British

    But have a funny way of showing it.

    It’s striking how people who live or spend most of their time away from the country claim an excess of patriotism, as if they feel a need to compensate for something they are missing.
    I spent my first two decades in the UK, apart from a few continental holidays

    Since then I have always lived - been based - in England, mainly in London, with a couple of years in Cornwall, and that was the case for another three and a half decades

    The only occasions I have lived abroad in that time have been a few months in Thailand and a few months in Japan, and 2 months in Egypt (does that even count as "living abroad"?)

    Yes I travelled a lot but I always came back home. It's only in the last two years I have spent more than half the year outside the UK

    So in total I've done at least 55 years of living in the UK. and it is still my base, the only place I own property, it's where most of my family lives, many of my friends, my older daughter grows up there, and so on and so forth. Other than that, good point

    However I might well be fucking off now, Britain is too depressing
    Who do you think you are kidding Mr. Woke,
    If you think we're on the run?
    We are the boys who will stop your little game.
    We are the boys who will make you think again.
    'Cause who do you think you are kidding Mr. Woke,
    If you think old England's done?

    However I might well be fucking off now, Britain is too depressing
    I paid my dues to Blighty, and also millions in taxes. I am probably paying your state pension. You can thank me later
    What fat feeble twat "flagged" this mild joke? Such pitiful snowflakes you are
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,284
    edited March 16
    Tim Mongomerie (excuse his caps): “THIS GOVT IS WORSE THAN MAJOR'S AND WILL LOSE MORE BADLY...”
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