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Has Sunak buggered up the boundary changes? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,230
    TimS said:

    Boomer anecdote: my parents, retired civil servant and teacher yet comfortable for years and forever in surplus in their retirement, now complain of running short. Quite a novelty. Inflation has caught up with them. Withdrawing funds from investments. Cutting back, would you believe it, on holidays.

    Neither is a Tory voter (one for many years, the other since Brexit) but if they are remotely struggling then the Tories are done. They are the epitome of the financially secure boomer generation that’s stuck with this government against gravity.

    At the risk of prying, have you checked that they have not fallen prey to a scam, or suffered some other unfortunate event? If they own their home outright, this is a rather odd situation.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,969
    edited October 2023

    Comment from a British Muslim journalist on Dagestan:

    https://x.com/dillyhussain88/status/1718709935179980828

    This is the kind of welcome ALL Israelis should be receiving at the airports of Muslim-majority countries.

    Now that is the sort of comment that should be drawing police attention. Seems like a clear cut case of incitement to violence.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,875

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The world is spiraling into something deeply tragic

    It's not really. Just more of the same.
    No, this feels qualitatively different. The western hegemony is fragmenting, like Rome before it
    That's what I mean. Someone's hegemony is always fragmenting.
    Impossible, surely, else a new hegemony would not have time to establish. It's like an evil empire in a fantasy novel, they inevitably get defeated in the story, sometimes shockingly easily, but the scenario requires one to have arisen and existed for long enough to make its fall dramatic.
    Well yes. Fragmenting or coalescing I suppose. I don't think hegemony is a good way for the world to be. I'm glad it's fragmenting.
    This sounds like naive, knee-jerk anti-Americanism.
    On the contrary, the 19th century was unprecedently peaceful and prosperous precisely because nobody held hegemonic power, or more accurately, sought to cement such power.
    Indians and Chinese might notably differ, not to mention the Indochinese, Maori, Maroons, and so on and so forth.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,732
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    Quite a place isn’t it? The art in the mosaics was actually…artistic. Bleak and rather beautiful landscapes around there too, though I saw it in April when the grass was green. The consequence of millennia of environmental degradation.

    Best way for the West not to collapse is for most of the rest of the growing bits of the world - particularly Africa - to become part of the West. Bit of a critical time at the moment but I have some hope.
    I agree. Africa is a real success story over the last few decades, and South America even more so. The dictatorships have nearly all gone, and while imperfect, most African and Latin American nations are now democracies with capitalist economies. Many problems remain of course, and the Sahel is like the Africa of decades ago, but astonishing and generally ignored progress.
    Are you on drugs?


    “Something has gone badly wrong in Africa. Sudan has collapsed into carnage, as two grasping warlords battle for control. Genocide has returned to Darfur: fighters loyal to one of those warlords are murdering every male they can find from one ethnic group, even shooting baby boys strapped to their mothers’ backs, as we report. In Ethiopia one civil war has barely ended and a new one is brewing. Across the Sahel, jihadists are terrorising millions and soldiers are seizing power, promising to restore calm but not actually doing so. You can now walk across nearly the widest part of Africa, from the Atlantic to the Red Sea, passing only through countries that have suffered coups in the past three years. But it would be unwise—you might well be kidnapped.”



    One reason coups have grown more common is that many Africans have lost faith in democracy. Afrobarometer, a pollster, found that the share who prefer democracy to any other form of government has fallen from 75% in 2012 to 66%. That may sound like a solid majority, but it includes many waverers. An alarming 53% said a coup would be legitimate if civilian leaders abuse their power, which they often do. In South Africa, which has one of the world’s most liberal constitutions, 72% say that if a non-elected leader could cut crime and boost housing and jobs, they would be willing to forgo elections.“

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/10/05/why-africans-are-losing-faith-in-democracy
    I did say the Sahel was the exception. Islamic countries are not usually democratic wherever they are.

    Most of SubSaharan Africa is democratic now, very different to a half century ago.

    That polling on democracy is worldwide, you see loss of faith in it everywhere in Europe and the Americas too. It reflects the poor economic progress in many places.

    I am quite optimistic about Africa (apart from climate change) as there has been great political and social progress in recent years, though much left to do.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,875
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    Greek key motif, rather?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,758
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    TimS said:

    Comment from a British Muslim journalist on Dagestan:

    https://x.com/dillyhussain88/status/1718709935179980828

    This is the kind of welcome ALL Israelis should be receiving at the airports of Muslim-majority countries.

    Incredible. Putin has been sending tens of thousands of Dagestanis to their deaths in Ukraine for over a year in a war they should have nothing to do with, and the thing they care most about is lynching Jews at the airport. And a British journalist thinks this is eminently sensible.
    The 2020s are really shaping up aren't they. A decade of madness.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The world is spiraling into something deeply tragic

    It's not really. Just more of the same.
    No, this feels qualitatively different. The western hegemony is fragmenting, like Rome before it
    Who's taking over then? Who's challenging? China is facing a demographic timebomb. The Islamic world? Largely dependent on the west or, otherwise, impotent. Africa? Russia? The only significant rising power is India and India is hardly challenging Western hegemony.

    Don't worry.
    I agree with @Foxy

    The fear is not a NEW hegemon, it’s no hegemon at all. The chaos of the Dark Ages

    It is merely a fear, tho. And of course AI might save us, from ourselves, at just the right time
    This isn't logical. There was no hegemon in the days of the Rennaissance, the Enlightenment, or the Industrial Revolution.
    When huge world empires fragment, chaos and warfare generally ensue

    Thing is, there haven’t been many of those. Probably only 3. Rome, Britain, America

    The end of Rome saw the Dark Ages. The end of Britain saw WW1 and WW2, as new powers fought for supremacy. The end of the American empire?
    Whatever happened to the End of History? That didn't last long...
    It was just a load of fukuyama.
    If read correctly you would have seen that the book was a warning.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,706
    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    Boomer anecdote: my parents, retired civil servant and teacher yet comfortable for years and forever in surplus in their retirement, now complain of running short. Quite a novelty. Inflation has caught up with them. Withdrawing funds from investments. Cutting back, would you believe it, on holidays.

    Neither is a Tory voter (one for many years, the other since Brexit) but if they are remotely struggling then the Tories are done. They are the epitome of the financially secure boomer generation that’s stuck with this government against gravity.

    At the risk of prying, have you checked that they have not fallen prey to a scam, or suffered some other unfortunate event? If they own their home outright, this is a rather odd situation.
    Nothing like that. They’re switched on and as financially savvy as most of us. Simply, stuff - particularly the one offs, the car repairs, house maintenance, insurance premiums and so on - is more expensive, but their income hasn’t risen as quickly.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,706

    TimS said:

    Comment from a British Muslim journalist on Dagestan:

    https://x.com/dillyhussain88/status/1718709935179980828

    This is the kind of welcome ALL Israelis should be receiving at the airports of Muslim-majority countries.

    Incredible. Putin has been sending tens of thousands of Dagestanis to their deaths in Ukraine for over a year in a war they should have nothing to do with, and the thing they care most about is lynching Jews at the airport. And a British journalist thinks this is eminently sensible.
    The 2020s are really shaping up aren't they. A decade of madness.
    When stuff goes to shit globally it’s never good news for the world’s favourite scapegoats.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    Quite a place isn’t it? The art in the mosaics was actually…artistic. Bleak and rather beautiful landscapes around there too, though I saw it in April when the grass was green. The consequence of millennia of environmental degradation.

    Best way for the West not to collapse is for most of the rest of the growing bits of the world - particularly Africa - to become part of the West. Bit of a critical time at the moment but I have some hope.
    I agree. Africa is a real success story over the last few decades, and South America even more so. The dictatorships have nearly all gone, and while imperfect, most African and Latin American nations are now democracies with capitalist economies. Many problems remain of course, and the Sahel is like the Africa of decades ago, but astonishing and generally ignored progress.
    Are you on drugs?


    “Something has gone badly wrong in Africa. Sudan has collapsed into carnage, as two grasping warlords battle for control. Genocide has returned to Darfur: fighters loyal to one of those warlords are murdering every male they can find from one ethnic group, even shooting baby boys strapped to their mothers’ backs, as we report. In Ethiopia one civil war has barely ended and a new one is brewing. Across the Sahel, jihadists are terrorising millions and soldiers are seizing power, promising to restore calm but not actually doing so. You can now walk across nearly the widest part of Africa, from the Atlantic to the Red Sea, passing only through countries that have suffered coups in the past three years. But it would be unwise—you might well be kidnapped.”



    One reason coups have grown more common is that many Africans have lost faith in democracy. Afrobarometer, a pollster, found that the share who prefer democracy to any other form of government has fallen from 75% in 2012 to 66%. That may sound like a solid majority, but it includes many waverers. An alarming 53% said a coup would be legitimate if civilian leaders abuse their power, which they often do. In South Africa, which has one of the world’s most liberal constitutions, 72% say that if a non-elected leader could cut crime and boost housing and jobs, they would be willing to forgo elections.“

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2023/10/05/why-africans-are-losing-faith-in-democracy
    I did say the Sahel was the exception. Islamic countries are not usually democratic wherever they are.

    Most of SubSaharan Africa is democratic now, very different to a half century ago.

    That polling on democracy is worldwide, you see loss of faith in it everywhere in Europe and the Americas too. It reflects the poor economic progress in many places.

    I am quite optimistic about Africa (apart from climate change) as there has been great political and social progress in recent years, though much left to do.
    I sincerely hope you’re right. I don’t actually like being negative

    I have two daughters and I’d like them to live in a peaceful and prosperous world…
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097
    Leon said:

    This is really quite a bad time for Trump to get re-elected and withdraw the USA from NATO. Definitely not ideal, not right now

    NATO is only there to contain Russia, not Hamas and not China
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,412
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
    Absolutely worth it. Combine it with a hedonistic week in Siracusa and the coast. Perfetto

    It’s a cheap part of Italy, too
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This is really quite a bad time for Trump to get re-elected and withdraw the USA from NATO. Definitely not ideal, not right now

    NATO is only there to contain Russia, not Hamas and not China
    Yes, well it's not going to do that very well if Trump is cheering Putin (or his successor) on - not to mention the likes of Orban causing trouble within Europe and Erdogan playing all sides off against each other.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,706
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
    Absolutely worth it. Combine it with a hedonistic week in Siracusa and the coast. Perfetto

    It’s a cheap part of Italy, too
    With the first recorded pictures of women in bikinis:


  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    We need to get back to John Locke.

    Starting with A Letter Concerning Toleration
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,668
    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    Boomer anecdote: my parents, retired civil servant and teacher yet comfortable for years and forever in surplus in their retirement, now complain of running short. Quite a novelty. Inflation has caught up with them. Withdrawing funds from investments. Cutting back, would you believe it, on holidays.

    Neither is a Tory voter (one for many years, the other since Brexit) but if they are remotely struggling then the Tories are done. They are the epitome of the financially secure boomer generation that’s stuck with this government against gravity.

    At the risk of prying, have you checked that they have not fallen prey to a scam, or suffered some other unfortunate event? If they own their home outright, this is a rather odd situation.
    We have just had our insurance renewal in for our holiday home. We have never made a claim on it. It has increased by 253% so I can see how people comfortably off but on pretty fixed income can suddenly come unstuck.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    lee harpin
    @lmharpin
    ·
    2h
    Looking forward to hearing Schnieder, Owen, Barnaby, Arron and Rivkah's analysis of the 'progressive' forces at work in Dagestan
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This is really quite a bad time for Trump to get re-elected and withdraw the USA from NATO. Definitely not ideal, not right now

    NATO is only there to contain Russia, not Hamas and not China
    Yes, well it's not going to do that very well if Trump is cheering Putin (or his successor) on - not to mention the likes of Orban causing trouble within Europe and Erdogan playing all sides off against each other.
    Even without the US NATO (which includes Turkey of course) has a comfortably stronger military combined than Russia does
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,706


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
  • Options
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
    Absolutely worth it. Combine it with a hedonistic week in Siracusa and the coast. Perfetto

    It’s a cheap part of Italy, too
    With the first recorded pictures of women in bikinis:


    Didn't the bloke who designed the bikini in the 1950s base it on a Roman mosaic? Or is that an urban myth?
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    Yes it has but it wont talk us into anything because the people who matter arent bought and sold like the general public by social media.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,108
    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    It's also a function of changing demographics in the West.
  • Options
    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    If WW3 does break out it will be another terrible action of Sir Kid Starver Genocide Enabler. WW3 would never have broken out under the Jeremy.
  • Options
    kjh said:

    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    Boomer anecdote: my parents, retired civil servant and teacher yet comfortable for years and forever in surplus in their retirement, now complain of running short. Quite a novelty. Inflation has caught up with them. Withdrawing funds from investments. Cutting back, would you believe it, on holidays.

    Neither is a Tory voter (one for many years, the other since Brexit) but if they are remotely struggling then the Tories are done. They are the epitome of the financially secure boomer generation that’s stuck with this government against gravity.

    At the risk of prying, have you checked that they have not fallen prey to a scam, or suffered some other unfortunate event? If they own their home outright, this is a rather odd situation.
    We have just had our insurance renewal in for our holiday home. We have never made a claim on it. It has increased by 253% so I can see how people comfortably off but on pretty fixed income can suddenly come unstuck.
    Add the quiet but brutal effect of freezing tax thresholds in a time of inflation. Not quite a scam...
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,230
    edited October 2023
    kjh said:

    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    Boomer anecdote: my parents, retired civil servant and teacher yet comfortable for years and forever in surplus in their retirement, now complain of running short. Quite a novelty. Inflation has caught up with them. Withdrawing funds from investments. Cutting back, would you believe it, on holidays.

    Neither is a Tory voter (one for many years, the other since Brexit) but if they are remotely struggling then the Tories are done. They are the epitome of the financially secure boomer generation that’s stuck with this government against gravity.

    At the risk of prying, have you checked that they have not fallen prey to a scam, or suffered some other unfortunate event? If they own their home outright, this is a rather odd situation.
    We have just had our insurance renewal in for our holiday home. We have never made a claim on it. It has increased by 253% so I can see how people comfortably off but on pretty fixed income can suddenly come unstuck.
    If it's near water, you might check the government's flood maps. If you've been downgraded by one level on an update, that can explain it. Not much you can do, of course.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2023


    lee harpin
    @lmharpin
    ·
    2h
    Looking forward to hearing Schnieder, Owen, Barnaby, Arron and Rivkah's analysis of the 'progressive' forces at work in Dagestan

    The way that's written reminds me of ....

    Pugh,Pugh,Barney Mcgrew
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6YE4PCRNwc
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,706
    Yokes said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    Yes it has but it wont talk us into anything because the people who matter arent bought and sold like the general public by social media.
    Aren’t they, though? They’re just people like you or I. Including, in the last couple of years, the likes of Matt Hancock, David Frost, Liz Truss, Dominics Raab and Cummings. Or Trump.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    You see that massive lynch mob out to kill Jews at the airport? This is why Israel is not going to soft pedal and compromise on security. Indeed I suspect it will strengthen their resolve to wipe out Hamas at whatever cost.

    The question is: what then? What is Israel’s “theory of victory”. Those familiar with the details of Joe Biden’s visit to Israel came away saying: it doesn’t have one.

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/invading-gaza-a-strategic-mistake/
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515

    kjh said:

    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    Boomer anecdote: my parents, retired civil servant and teacher yet comfortable for years and forever in surplus in their retirement, now complain of running short. Quite a novelty. Inflation has caught up with them. Withdrawing funds from investments. Cutting back, would you believe it, on holidays.

    Neither is a Tory voter (one for many years, the other since Brexit) but if they are remotely struggling then the Tories are done. They are the epitome of the financially secure boomer generation that’s stuck with this government against gravity.

    At the risk of prying, have you checked that they have not fallen prey to a scam, or suffered some other unfortunate event? If they own their home outright, this is a rather odd situation.
    We have just had our insurance renewal in for our holiday home. We have never made a claim on it. It has increased by 253% so I can see how people comfortably off but on pretty fixed income can suddenly come unstuck.
    Add the quiet but brutal effect of freezing tax thresholds in a time of inflation. Not quite a scam...
    What we are seeing is, I think, the unwinding of a lot of boom time bullshit in the economy.

    Similar things are being seen in a number of countries.

    Businesses that were losing money on every sale, but were going to make it up in volume… well the bell is being rung.
  • Options
    Rishi Sunak is poised to increase taxpayer spending on artificial intelligence chips and supercomputers to £400m as he strives to boost Britain’s technology credentials.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/29/sunak-ramps-up-spending-on-ai-chips/

    He does know how much OpenAI kit cost to train ChatGPT...
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,108


    lee harpin
    @lmharpin
    ·
    2h
    Looking forward to hearing Schnieder, Owen, Barnaby, Arron and Rivkah's analysis of the 'progressive' forces at work in Dagestan

    The way that's written reminds me of ....

    Pugh,Pugh,Barney Mcgrew
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6YE4PCRNwc
    Or the rave version. :smile:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWttTRPkm0w
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,706

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
    Absolutely worth it. Combine it with a hedonistic week in Siracusa and the coast. Perfetto

    It’s a cheap part of Italy, too
    With the first recorded pictures of women in bikinis:


    Didn't the bloke who designed the bikini in the 1950s base it on a Roman mosaic? Or is that an urban myth?
    That does ring a bell. And would make some sense if these things have been there for grand tourists to look at for centuries.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,134
    New York Jets win at New York Giants tonight - described as "the ugliest best game you will ever see!" Jets were dead - win % must have been in low single figures.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
  • Options


    lee harpin
    @lmharpin
    ·
    2h
    Looking forward to hearing Schnieder, Owen, Barnaby, Arron and Rivkah's analysis of the 'progressive' forces at work in Dagestan

    The way that's written reminds me of ....

    Pugh,Pugh,Barney Mcgrew
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6YE4PCRNwc
    Or the rave version. :smile:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWttTRPkm0w
    Now about that conversion we have about music being better back in the day...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,758
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
    Absolutely worth it. Combine it with a hedonistic week in Siracusa and the coast. Perfetto

    It’s a cheap part of Italy, too
    With the first recorded pictures of women in bikinis:


    The Spice Puellae ?
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    TimS said:

    Yokes said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    Yes it has but it wont talk us into anything because the people who matter arent bought and sold like the general public by social media.
    Aren’t they, though? They’re just people like you or I. Including, in the last couple of years, the likes of Matt Hancock, David Frost, Liz Truss, Dominics Raab and Cummings. Or Trump.
    Not when it comes to it no.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This is really quite a bad time for Trump to get re-elected and withdraw the USA from NATO. Definitely not ideal, not right now

    NATO is only there to contain Russia, not Hamas and not China
    Yes, well it's not going to do that very well if Trump is cheering Putin (or his successor) on - not to mention the likes of Orban causing trouble within Europe and Erdogan playing all sides off against each other.
    Even without the US NATO (which includes Turkey of course) has a comfortably stronger military combined than Russia does
    Military strength = capability x willpower.

    I'm not convinced it does.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052
    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    Getting desperate those lads.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
    Absolutely worth it. Combine it with a hedonistic week in Siracusa and the coast. Perfetto

    It’s a cheap part of Italy, too
    With the first recorded pictures of women in bikinis:


    Didn't the bloke who designed the bikini in the 1950s base it on a Roman mosaic? Or is that an urban myth?
    That does ring a bell. And would make some sense if these things have been there for grand tourists to look at for centuries.
    Yes, although the principle of form follows function applies. Any two-piece swimsuit for women is going to look something like the bikini because it has to.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,052

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This is really quite a bad time for Trump to get re-elected and withdraw the USA from NATO. Definitely not ideal, not right now

    NATO is only there to contain Russia, not Hamas and not China
    Yes, well it's not going to do that very well if Trump is cheering Putin (or his successor) on - not to mention the likes of Orban causing trouble within Europe and Erdogan playing all sides off against each other.
    Even without the US NATO (which includes Turkey of course) has a comfortably stronger military combined than Russia does
    Military strength = capability x willpower.

    I'm not convinced it does.
    The Russian military is in a decrepit state. By virtue of their size the Baltic states would need to worry though.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,706
    edited October 2023

    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
    Starmer has been doing exactly that. And getting shit from the BJOs of this world for his troubles. As indeed have a number of left of centre politicians including, despite many personal reasons why it must be difficult, Layla Moran. And others who have for example called for a ceasefire, like Sadiq in London, have been consistently clear in their support of British Jews. Yes the (far) left has a problem with antisemitism, thankfully most have fucked off back to SWP and other fringe groups, but it’s nothing to do with the Labour front bench, and as for the single market…

    Everyone is debating internally about the morals of this situation. It is virtually impossible for a normal human being to have a morally certain position on one or other side of this conflict. Most understand Hamas started it and in the most hideous fashion. Most worry Israel might now be making a bad thing worse. Both populations are suffering. As Anna Soubry just said on Sky news, the same debates are happening in the Tory party, it’s just nobody has broken rank. If Sunak pretends to have moral certainty here then it’s just that, pretence.
  • Options

    Has the MSM picked up on the Dagestan situation yet? I can't see anything on the BBC website.

    They can only cope with one war at a time. They can’t even report on Ukraine now, let alone Dagestan.
    2nd item on Mail website:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12686125/Mob-Dagestan-Airport-Jewish-passengers-flight-Israel-incident-Russian-republic.html
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67258332
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
    Absolutely worth it. Combine it with a hedonistic week in Siracusa and the coast. Perfetto

    It’s a cheap part of Italy, too
    With the first recorded pictures of women in bikinis:


    Didn't the bloke who designed the bikini in the 1950s base it on a Roman mosaic? Or is that an urban myth?
    That does ring a bell. And would make some sense if these things have been there for grand tourists to look at for centuries.
    Yes, although the principle of form follows function applies. Any two-piece swimsuit for women is going to look something like the bikini because it has to.
    Regulation L-85 has entered the chat…
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This is really quite a bad time for Trump to get re-elected and withdraw the USA from NATO. Definitely not ideal, not right now

    NATO is only there to contain Russia, not Hamas and not China
    Yes, well it's not going to do that very well if Trump is cheering Putin (or his successor) on - not to mention the likes of Orban causing trouble within Europe and Erdogan playing all sides off against each other.
    Even without the US NATO (which includes Turkey of course) has a comfortably stronger military combined than Russia does
    Military strength = capability x willpower.

    I'm not convinced it does.
    The Russian military is in a decrepit state. By virtue of their size the Baltic states would need to worry though.
    Ukraine has out fought Russia. Poland would probably defeat Russia, these days.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,791

    Rishi Sunak is poised to increase taxpayer spending on artificial intelligence chips and supercomputers to £400m as he strives to boost Britain’s technology credentials.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/29/sunak-ramps-up-spending-on-ai-chips/

    He does know how much OpenAI kit cost to train ChatGPT...

    We need to be sceptical wrt AI, and I'm not sure Rishi Sunak is the best person to understand that.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
    Starmer has been doing exactly that. And getting shit from the BJOs of this world for his troubles. As indeed have a number of left of centre politicians including, despite many personal reasons why it must be difficult, Layla Moran. And others who have for example called for a ceasefire, like Sadiq in London, have been consistently clear in their support of British Jews. Yes the (far) left has a problem with antisemitism, thankfully most have fucked off back to SWP and other fringe groups, but it’s nothing to do with the Labour front bench, and as for the single market…

    Everyone is debating internally about the morals of this situation. It is virtually impossible for a normal human being to have a morally certain position on one or other side of this conflict. Most understand Hamas started it and in the most hideous fashion. Most worry Israel might now be making a bad thing worse. Both populations are suffering. As Anna Soubry just said on Sky news, the same debates are happening in the Tory party, it’s just nobody has broken rank. If Sunak pretends to have moral certainty here then it’s just that, pretence.
    As Freedland said in the Guardian yesterday, in one of his best ever pieces, this is not like football. You dont have to choose a team and then back it to the bitter end no matter what.

    Too many people are doing exactly that.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    37m
    This is the size of the lynch mob trying to attack Jewish passengers at the airport in Dagestan, Russia.

    Hundreds of men looking for Israelis who arrived on a flight from Tel Aviv.

    They are checking everybody's passports to see if they are Israeli.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    The US appear to be flying their UAVS right along Gaza in the last 12 or so hours, and it appears still are. Curious one. They dont need to be that close, but there they are.

    Meanwhile Hamas appears really rather concerned things arent quite what they hoped for.
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202

    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    37m
    This is the size of the lynch mob trying to attack Jewish passengers at the airport in Dagestan, Russia.

    Hundreds of men looking for Israelis who arrived on a flight from Tel Aviv.

    They are checking everybody's passports to see if they are Israeli.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24

    The Israeli citizens are with the authorities, reportedly, and awaiting evac to Moscow
  • Options
    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    12:17 PM · Oct 21, 2023

    It’s worth repeating how many Arab & Muslim heroes fought against Hamas on October 7

    This is Ashraf, an Arab Bedouin IDF commander who defended his base against the terrorists

    Here we have Israeli civilians chanting his name, thanking him for saving them

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1715688707183837257
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,108
    Yokes said:

    The US appear to be flying their UAVS right along Gaza in the last 12 or so hours, and it appears still are. Curious one. They dont need to be that close, but there they are.

    Meanwhile Hamas appears really rather concerned things arent quite what they hoped for.

    https://x.com/khaledabutoameh/status/1718723313319452778

    Hamas official Musa Abu Marzouk: "There are members of the Palestinian Authority and some Arab countries who are secretly calling on the West to destroy Hamas."
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    US airstrikes against IRGC facilities in Syria earlier this evening. Nothing major.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,097

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    This is really quite a bad time for Trump to get re-elected and withdraw the USA from NATO. Definitely not ideal, not right now

    NATO is only there to contain Russia, not Hamas and not China
    Yes, well it's not going to do that very well if Trump is cheering Putin (or his successor) on - not to mention the likes of Orban causing trouble within Europe and Erdogan playing all sides off against each other.
    Even without the US NATO (which includes Turkey of course) has a comfortably stronger military combined than Russia does
    Military strength = capability x willpower.

    I'm not convinced it does.
    Russia can't even beat Ukraine let alone the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, Canada and Turkey combined
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
    Starmer has been doing exactly that. And getting shit from the BJOs of this world for his troubles. As indeed have a number of left of centre politicians including, despite many personal reasons why it must be difficult, Layla Moran. And others who have for example called for a ceasefire, like Sadiq in London, have been consistently clear in their support of British Jews. Yes the (far) left has a problem with antisemitism, thankfully most have fucked off back to SWP and other fringe groups, but it’s nothing to do with the Labour front bench, and as for the single market…

    Everyone is debating internally about the morals of this situation. It is virtually impossible for a normal human being to have a morally certain position on one or other side of this conflict. Most understand Hamas started it and in the most hideous fashion. Most worry Israel might now be making a bad thing worse. Both populations are suffering. As Anna Soubry just said on Sky news, the same debates are happening in the Tory party, it’s just nobody has broken rank. If Sunak pretends to have moral certainty here then it’s just that, pretence.
    As Freedland said in the Guardian yesterday, in one of his best ever pieces, this is not like football. You dont have to choose a team and then back it to the bitter end no matter what.

    Too many people are doing exactly that.
    Yes, I've not been commenting much as I'm not sure I've anything useful to say, though if the blockade of food and water continues much longer I think it will be appropriate to criticise Israel, despite the extreme horror to which they were subjected a few weeks ago. I entirely agree with Tim's comments, and Frank Booth's posts on this are just odd.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,359
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
    Starmer has been doing exactly that. And getting shit from the BJOs of this world for his troubles. As indeed have a number of left of centre politicians including, despite many personal reasons why it must be difficult, Layla Moran. And others who have for example called for a ceasefire, like Sadiq in London, have been consistently clear in their support of British Jews. Yes the (far) left has a problem with antisemitism, thankfully most have fucked off back to SWP and other fringe groups, but it’s nothing to do with the Labour front bench, and as for the single market…

    Everyone is debating internally about the morals of this situation. It is virtually impossible for a normal human being to have a morally certain position on one or other side of this conflict. Most understand Hamas started it and in the most hideous fashion. Most worry Israel might now be making a bad thing worse. Both populations are suffering. As Anna Soubry just said on Sky news, the same debates are happening in the Tory party, it’s just nobody has broken rank. If Sunak pretends to have moral certainty here then it’s just that, pretence.
    Thank God it's Starmer and not Corbyn in charge in this crisis, as even if you're critical of him at least Labour doesn't have a leader pouring petrol on flames. There's a genuine point there though. In that in 2019 there were endless arguments on the left/liberal side of politics about whether one could or should vote Labour despite thinking Corbyn might be either antisemitic himself, or so blind to it, it amounted to the same thing - because Labour were the only ones offering to rethink a disastrous Brexit, and Boris had his own moral toxicity.

    And lots of people in their infinite wisdom did. Labour moved up in the polls when the election claim along and offered a second referendum. While Corbyn remained about as popular as his brother would be in a stuck lift. And if he wasn't quite so rubbish, he might be PM and currently excusing some of the dreadful stuff we've seen since 7 October.

    There's also probably a need - difficult as it is at the moment given horrible events - for the sensible parts of the left to really draw a red line and say enough is enough on the more toxic elements of the 'anti-imperialist left'. Because they can acquire real power, whether it's in universities, unions or Labour if things fall right - or by politically pressuring party leaders when they get the chance.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
    Starmer has been doing exactly that. And getting shit from the BJOs of this world for his troubles. As indeed have a number of left of centre politicians including, despite many personal reasons why it must be difficult, Layla Moran. And others who have for example called for a ceasefire, like Sadiq in London, have been consistently clear in their support of British Jews. Yes the (far) left has a problem with antisemitism, thankfully most have fucked off back to SWP and other fringe groups, but it’s nothing to do with the Labour front bench, and as for the single market…

    Everyone is debating internally about the morals of this situation. It is virtually impossible for a normal human being to have a morally certain position on one or other side of this conflict. Most understand Hamas started it and in the most hideous fashion. Most worry Israel might now be making a bad thing worse. Both populations are suffering. As Anna Soubry just said on Sky news, the same debates are happening in the Tory party, it’s just nobody has broken rank. If Sunak pretends to have moral certainty here then it’s just that, pretence.
    As Freedland said in the Guardian yesterday, in one of his best ever pieces, this is not like football. You dont have to choose a team and then back it to the bitter end no matter what.

    Too many people are doing exactly that.
    Yes, I've not been commenting much as I'm not sure I've anything useful to say, though if the blockade of food and water continues much longer I think it will be appropriate to criticise Israel, despite the extreme horror to which they were subjected a few weeks ago. I entirely agree with Tim's comments, and Frank Booth's posts on this are just odd.
    Netanyahu doesn't seem to care about the wider world's opinion of how he prosecutes this war.

    Threatening to destroy a hospital and giving everyone a few hours to get out is a massive mistake.

    To what purpose is that?

    Beneath it may be miles of tunnels full of looney Hamas fighter kids.

    Fine. But give a lot more time for the hospital to clear out. Otherwise it is a war crime.

    As I have posted imho this is all a trap for Israel unless they tread very very carefully and tonight there is no sign that their PM realises this.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,758
    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202

    Yokes said:

    The US appear to be flying their UAVS right along Gaza in the last 12 or so hours, and it appears still are. Curious one. They dont need to be that close, but there they are.

    Meanwhile Hamas appears really rather concerned things arent quite what they hoped for.

    https://x.com/khaledabutoameh/status/1718723313319452778

    Hamas official Musa Abu Marzouk: "There are members of the Palestinian Authority and some Arab countries who are secretly calling on the West to destroy Hamas."
    Many of the governments of the 'Arab nations', however they may be construed, cant be having Hamas and indeed dont really have a huge amount of time for the Palestinians as a whole either. Take Saudi Arabia. MBS is of the view that Saudi has wasted too long and missed out in in not trying to normalise relations with the Israelis.

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    There are other priorities in the current crisis. But we probably should abandon the pseudo-scientific and misleading late 19th century term, antisemitism, and use the older and more accurate term, Jew-hatred.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Vaguely on topic have they fixed the thing that's supposed to give me the right to vote back yet? I heard they'd passed the bill a while back so I sent in the form but they told me I had to wait until they passed secondary legislation or something.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    Yokes said:

    The US appear to be flying their UAVS right along Gaza in the last 12 or so hours, and it appears still are. Curious one. They dont need to be that close, but there they are.

    Meanwhile Hamas appears really rather concerned things arent quite what they hoped for.

    https://x.com/khaledabutoameh/status/1718723313319452778

    Hamas official Musa Abu Marzouk: "There are members of the Palestinian Authority and some Arab countries who are secretly calling on the West to destroy Hamas."
    Translation: We have massively overplayed our hand and now we may be f*cked.

  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    edited October 2023

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
    Starmer has been doing exactly that. And getting shit from the BJOs of this world for his troubles. As indeed have a number of left of centre politicians including, despite many personal reasons why it must be difficult, Layla Moran. And others who have for example called for a ceasefire, like Sadiq in London, have been consistently clear in their support of British Jews. Yes the (far) left has a problem with antisemitism, thankfully most have fucked off back to SWP and other fringe groups, but it’s nothing to do with the Labour front bench, and as for the single market…

    Everyone is debating internally about the morals of this situation. It is virtually impossible for a normal human being to have a morally certain position on one or other side of this conflict. Most understand Hamas started it and in the most hideous fashion. Most worry Israel might now be making a bad thing worse. Both populations are suffering. As Anna Soubry just said on Sky news, the same debates are happening in the Tory party, it’s just nobody has broken rank. If Sunak pretends to have moral certainty here then it’s just that, pretence.
    As Freedland said in the Guardian yesterday, in one of his best ever pieces, this is not like football. You dont have to choose a team and then back it to the bitter end no matter what.

    Too many people are doing exactly that.
    Yes, I've not been commenting much as I'm not sure I've anything useful to say, though if the blockade of food and water continues much longer I think it will be appropriate to criticise Israel, despite the extreme horror to which they were subjected a few weeks ago. I entirely agree with Tim's comments, and Frank Booth's posts on this are just odd.
    Netanyahu doesn't seem to care about the wider world's opinion of how he prosecutes this war.

    Threatening to destroy a hospital and giving everyone a few hours to get out is a massive mistake.

    To what purpose is that?

    Beneath it may be miles of tunnels full of looney Hamas fighter kids.

    Fine. But give a lot more time for the hospital to clear out. Otherwise it is a war crime.

    As I have posted imho this is all a trap for Israel unless they tread very very carefully and tonight there is no sign that their PM realises this.
    1.Netanyahu has been the one reluctant to put the troops in on full charge, because a) he is a classic ditherer and b) is thinking of his own arse whenever many, if not all the hostages, as they will, end up dead. As it is, the conclusion a couple of days ago was the hostage negotiations were going nowhere hence the more concerted ground action, even though its not exactly a full on invasion at this time. The reason why it isnt? Netanyahu.

    2. Whether people like it or not, the Israeli response so far could have been much much more severe and scorched earth.

  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,230
    edited October 2023

    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
    Many modern compilers save the comments as part of the parse tree. Especially those which have annotations in comments which are instructions to the compiler to set/clear options.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278
    Yokes said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
    Starmer has been doing exactly that. And getting shit from the BJOs of this world for his troubles. As indeed have a number of left of centre politicians including, despite many personal reasons why it must be difficult, Layla Moran. And others who have for example called for a ceasefire, like Sadiq in London, have been consistently clear in their support of British Jews. Yes the (far) left has a problem with antisemitism, thankfully most have fucked off back to SWP and other fringe groups, but it’s nothing to do with the Labour front bench, and as for the single market…

    Everyone is debating internally about the morals of this situation. It is virtually impossible for a normal human being to have a morally certain position on one or other side of this conflict. Most understand Hamas started it and in the most hideous fashion. Most worry Israel might now be making a bad thing worse. Both populations are suffering. As Anna Soubry just said on Sky news, the same debates are happening in the Tory party, it’s just nobody has broken rank. If Sunak pretends to have moral certainty here then it’s just that, pretence.
    As Freedland said in the Guardian yesterday, in one of his best ever pieces, this is not like football. You dont have to choose a team and then back it to the bitter end no matter what.

    Too many people are doing exactly that.
    Yes, I've not been commenting much as I'm not sure I've anything useful to say, though if the blockade of food and water continues much longer I think it will be appropriate to criticise Israel, despite the extreme horror to which they were subjected a few weeks ago. I entirely agree with Tim's comments, and Frank Booth's posts on this are just odd.
    Netanyahu doesn't seem to care about the wider world's opinion of how he prosecutes this war.

    Threatening to destroy a hospital and giving everyone a few hours to get out is a massive mistake.

    To what purpose is that?

    Beneath it may be miles of tunnels full of looney Hamas fighter kids.

    Fine. But give a lot more time for the hospital to clear out. Otherwise it is a war crime.

    As I have posted imho this is all a trap for Israel unless they tread very very carefully and tonight there is no sign that their PM realises this.
    1.Netanyahu has been the one reluctant to put the troops in on full charge, because a) he is a classic ditherer and b) is thinking of his own arse whenever many, if not all the hostages, as they will, end up dead. As it is, the conclusion a couple of days ago was the hostage negotiations were going nowhere hence the more concerted ground action, even though its not exactly a full on invasion at this time. The reason why it isnt? Netanyahu.

    2. Whether people like it or not, the Israeli response so far could have been much much more severe and scorched earth.

    He could have massively surprised the enemy by just simply waiting.

    They would have been massively non-plussed.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
    Many modern compilers save the comments as part of the parse tree. Especially those which have annotations in comments which are instructions to the compiler to set/clear options.
    Compiler directives have their own format or else they would not be directives
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,917

    We need to get back to John Locke.

    Starting with A Letter Concerning Toleration

    I agree, but I don't think we will. Contrary to my perpetual occupancy of the hellhole that is PB, I don't live online like other people do: no Facebook, no Twitter, no Insta, no WhatsApp, no "feed", no phone that does email/surfing, no apps. It's YouTube, alternatehistory.com and this place.

    But you don't have to spend long on PB to see that most of the BTL commentators do spend most of their time online, and so are more immediately affected by things online than in their daily lives. In the past people were willing to tolerate many things simply because the tolerance was long-distance. But now it's fed to them 24hrs in their hand they are increasingly less likely to do so, and more likely to seek their banning.

    Oh coincidentally, the House of Lords prorogued the other day. One of the acts read out as "Le Roy le veult" before it shut was the Online Safety Bill, now the Online Safety Act. We are boats, beaten back ceaselessly against the tide. :(

  • Options
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
    Many modern compilers save the comments as part of the parse tree. Especially those which have annotations in comments which are instructions to the compiler to set/clear options.
    Arse parse :lol:
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,917
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    On the excellent recommendation of @TimS I went to this place today

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Romana_del_Casale

    One of the greatest villas of the late Roman Empire. The mosaics are absolutely mind blowing. The whole vast building, with its exquisite fountains and courtly bath complex, shows that even in the 4th century, in relatively distant rural Sicily, Rome could conjure levels of civilization that took 1400 years to regain, once Rome collapsed

    There was a poignant placard by one mosaic which read - ‘the mosaics were preserved under layers of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles from the later medieval era’

    I fear that is where we might be headed. Back to an era of straw, dung, rubble and cobbles

    That does look amazing.
    I note there’s a reverse swastika on one of the tunics in the hunting mosaic.
    It’s the most incredible Roman Villa I’ve seen. And, to that extent, is the most impressive private house I’ve ever encountered, from classical antiquity

    And on that more beautiful note, good night from sultry Sicily
    I’ll try to get there someday.
    Absolutely worth it. Combine it with a hedonistic week in Siracusa and the coast. Perfetto

    It’s a cheap part of Italy, too
    With the first recorded pictures of women in bikinis:


    The Spice Puellae ?
    Sporty Spice, Posh Spice, and Discus Spice. Makes sense to me. Obvs. :)
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,230

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
    Many modern compilers save the comments as part of the parse tree. Especially those which have annotations in comments which are instructions to the compiler to set/clear options.
    Compiler directives have their own format or else they would not be directives

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
    Many modern compilers save the comments as part of the parse tree. Especially those which have annotations in comments which are instructions to the compiler to set/clear options.
    Compiler directives have their own format or else they would not be directives
    See, for example, the top comment here for why it might be useful:

    https://langdev.stackexchange.com/questions/2289/preserving-comments-in-ast
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202

    Yokes said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:


    George Mann
    @sgfmann
    ·
    17m
    Daily Express: Middle East on prescipice #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://twitter.com/sgfmann

    I do wonder if the new TwiX age has made all international news events seem more dramatic and apocalyptic than they used to be.

    Israel has been fighting the Palestinians, and Hisbollah and various other Arab forces for decades, and it’s always made the news but never engendered this sense of the world on the precipice.

    A slight danger we all talk ourselves into WW3 (not PB, to be clear. The West).
    I'm sure Jewish people all over the world are more afraid than at any time since the 1930s. Are we going to stand up for them at some point? Or given that so much of the hostility is coming from the political left do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market?
    “Do the Jews get sacrificed for the sake of a Labour government/rejoining the single market” is not only the most breathtaking non-sequitur and QTWTAIN in the history of this site, but also “somewhat” overstates the important of British domestic politics on the question of the security of the global Jewish population.
    Well that was obviously meant in relation to the UK. It's obviously a little provocative but I am increasingly exasperated that the support and solidarity with British Jews at this time is coming largely from the political right. When is the left going to stand up?
    Starmer has been doing exactly that. And getting shit from the BJOs of this world for his troubles. As indeed have a number of left of centre politicians including, despite many personal reasons why it must be difficult, Layla Moran. And others who have for example called for a ceasefire, like Sadiq in London, have been consistently clear in their support of British Jews. Yes the (far) left has a problem with antisemitism, thankfully most have fucked off back to SWP and other fringe groups, but it’s nothing to do with the Labour front bench, and as for the single market…

    Everyone is debating internally about the morals of this situation. It is virtually impossible for a normal human being to have a morally certain position on one or other side of this conflict. Most understand Hamas started it and in the most hideous fashion. Most worry Israel might now be making a bad thing worse. Both populations are suffering. As Anna Soubry just said on Sky news, the same debates are happening in the Tory party, it’s just nobody has broken rank. If Sunak pretends to have moral certainty here then it’s just that, pretence.
    As Freedland said in the Guardian yesterday, in one of his best ever pieces, this is not like football. You dont have to choose a team and then back it to the bitter end no matter what.

    Too many people are doing exactly that.
    Yes, I've not been commenting much as I'm not sure I've anything useful to say, though if the blockade of food and water continues much longer I think it will be appropriate to criticise Israel, despite the extreme horror to which they were subjected a few weeks ago. I entirely agree with Tim's comments, and Frank Booth's posts on this are just odd.
    Netanyahu doesn't seem to care about the wider world's opinion of how he prosecutes this war.

    Threatening to destroy a hospital and giving everyone a few hours to get out is a massive mistake.

    To what purpose is that?

    Beneath it may be miles of tunnels full of looney Hamas fighter kids.

    Fine. But give a lot more time for the hospital to clear out. Otherwise it is a war crime.

    As I have posted imho this is all a trap for Israel unless they tread very very carefully and tonight there is no sign that their PM realises this.
    1.Netanyahu has been the one reluctant to put the troops in on full charge, because a) he is a classic ditherer and b) is thinking of his own arse whenever many, if not all the hostages, as they will, end up dead. As it is, the conclusion a couple of days ago was the hostage negotiations were going nowhere hence the more concerted ground action, even though its not exactly a full on invasion at this time. The reason why it isnt? Netanyahu.

    2. Whether people like it or not, the Israeli response so far could have been much much more severe and scorched earth.

    He could have massively surprised the enemy by just simply waiting.

    They would have been massively non-plussed.
    That strategically makes no sense at all unless the sole concern is what some people very far away, who dont matter, think.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,917

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
    Many modern compilers save the comments as part of the parse tree. Especially those which have annotations in comments which are instructions to the compiler to set/clear options.
    Arse parse :lol:
    "...the IDE would show an error if the semantic stream wasn't providing outputs to the syntactic stream..."

    (feeling smug now :))
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,917
    Anyhoo, if anybody wants pleasant nice music to inspire happy thoughts, here's three hours and forty-five minutes of free stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb8QJWsK5_s
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
    Many modern compilers save the comments as part of the parse tree. Especially those which have annotations in comments which are instructions to the compiler to set/clear options.
    Compiler directives have their own format or else they would not be directives

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    An AI parable for @Leon
    (Or perhaps a prediction.)

    https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1718654143110512741

    That is clearly b*ll*cks.

    Having written compiler type code, the first job in a compiler is to parse the text and tokenize it before passing it to the lexical analyzer. During this process all comments are junked because they have no bearing on the object code.

    So the response to "Student: I get the feeling the compiler is just ignoring all my comments." is "I should hope so, because that is its job"
    Many modern compilers save the comments as part of the parse tree. Especially those which have annotations in comments which are instructions to the compiler to set/clear options.
    Compiler directives have their own format or else they would not be directives
    See, for example, the top comment here for why it might be useful:

    https://langdev.stackexchange.com/questions/2289/preserving-comments-in-ast
    All the parsers I ever dealt with tokenized comments as whitespace
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    viewcode said:

    We need to get back to John Locke.

    Starting with A Letter Concerning Toleration

    I agree, but I don't think we will. Contrary to my perpetual occupancy of the hellhole that is PB, I don't live online like other people do: no Facebook, no Twitter, no Insta, no WhatsApp, no "feed", no phone that does email/surfing, no apps. It's YouTube, alternatehistory.com and this place.

    But you don't have to spend long on PB to see that most of the BTL commentators do spend most of their time online, and so are more immediately affected by things online than in their daily lives. In the past people were willing to tolerate many things simply because the tolerance was long-distance. But now it's fed to them 24hrs in their hand they are increasingly less likely to do so, and more likely to seek their banning.

    Oh coincidentally, the House of Lords prorogued the other day. One of the acts read out as "Le Roy le veult" before it shut was the Online Safety Bill, now the Online Safety Act. We are boats, beaten back ceaselessly against the tide. :(

    Actually, the one good thing about the Middle East situation is that I am spending a lot less time in PB
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515
    viewcode said:

    We need to get back to John Locke.

    Starting with A Letter Concerning Toleration

    I agree, but I don't think we will. Contrary to my perpetual occupancy of the hellhole that is PB, I don't live online like other people do: no Facebook, no Twitter, no Insta, no WhatsApp, no "feed", no phone that does email/surfing, no apps. It's YouTube, alternatehistory.com and this place.

    But you don't have to spend long on PB to see that most of the BTL commentators do spend most of their time online, and so are more immediately affected by things online than in their daily lives. In the past people were willing to tolerate many things simply because the tolerance was long-distance. But now it's fed to them 24hrs in their hand they are increasingly less likely to do so, and more likely to seek their banning.

    Oh coincidentally, the House of Lords prorogued the other day. One of the acts read out as "Le Roy le veult" before it shut was the Online Safety Bill, now the Online Safety Act. We are boats, beaten back ceaselessly against the tide. :(

    “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia”
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    Arnaud Bertrand
    @RnaudBertrand
    Absolutely masterful interview on Gaza of Dominique De Villepin, former Prime Minister of France, who famously led France's opposition to the Iraq war and who, IMHO is the best diplomat the West has produced in decades.

    This is so important, so incredibly well argued, that I decided to translate it in full:

    "Hamas has set a trap for us, and this trap is one of maximum horror, of maximum cruelty. And so there's a risk of an escalation in militarism, of more military interventions, as if we could with armies solve a problem as serious as the Palestinian question.

    https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,108
    There are videos of IDF forces going into Jenin in the West Bank.

    https://x.com/qudsnen/status/1718762935323939244
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,515


    Arnaud Bertrand
    @RnaudBertrand
    Absolutely masterful interview on Gaza of Dominique De Villepin, former Prime Minister of France, who famously led France's opposition to the Iraq war and who, IMHO is the best diplomat the West has produced in decades.

    This is so important, so incredibly well argued, that I decided to translate it in full:

    "Hamas has set a trap for us, and this trap is one of maximum horror, of maximum cruelty. And so there's a risk of an escalation in militarism, of more military interventions, as if we could with armies solve a problem as serious as the Palestinian question.

    https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246

    One thing that has received little or no mention is this - Gaza can only survive if it has access to resources beyond its borders. Not just fuel and water. Trade.

    If Israel keeps the border closed to people seeking work in Israel and the rest of cross border trade that previously occurred, what then?
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    You see that massive lynch mob out to kill Jews at the airport? This is why Israel is not going to soft pedal and compromise on security. Indeed I suspect it will strengthen their resolve to wipe out Hamas at whatever cost.

    The question is: what then? What is Israel’s “theory of victory”. Those familiar with the details of Joe Biden’s visit to Israel came away saying: it doesn’t have one.

    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/invading-gaza-a-strategic-mistake/
    Those familiar with the details probably aren't talking to the New European who never get anything right on anything.

    Especially since Israel have been open about the endgame here. After they have made themselves secure they want rid of responsibility for Gaza. Gaza will be handed over to A N Other party to be responsible for. Presumably a party that has peaceful relations with Israel of which there are now a number of Arab countries that fit that bill after Israel's peace agreements it has reached in recent years.

    Israel ended it's occupation of Gaza in 2005 but is still treated as an occupying power by the rest of the world. Ending Israel's responsibility for Gaza is a reasonable next step after Hamas are eliminated to ensure that peace can be reached between Israel and Gaza.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,271
    edited October 2023

    Have Oxfam got the balance right? Seen this on my FB feed just now:

    𝐖𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐧 𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐯𝐢𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐛𝐲 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐥𝐞 𝐏𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐚𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐈𝐬𝐫𝐚𝐞𝐥𝐢 𝐜𝐢𝐯𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐚𝐧𝐬 𝐩𝐚𝐲 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐩𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥 𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐥𝐮𝐫𝐞.
    Please sign our petition and make your voice heard. Together we’re calling on the Foreign Secretary to ensure:
    ⚠️ An immediate ceasefire
    ⚠️ Urgent access to food, water and humanitarian aid for civilians
    ⚠️ A real commitment to lasting peace for all, with justice, dignity and a future for Palestinian and Israeli people
    ⚠️ Anyone held captive must be released.

    Were they after money at the same time ?

    Usually with these charidee online petitions you sign it, they harvest your details and spam you with the begging bowl asking for cash. I’ve seen greenpeace, RSPCA and wwf ones on Facebook too. All similar M.O.

    Seeing as Oxfam have upcoming industrial action due to historic low pay/insulting pay offer they will need as much as they can get to pay the staff.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/oxfam-workers-strike-ballot-poverty-pay
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    edited October 2023

    Have Oxfam got the balance right? Seen this on my FB feed just now:

    𝐖𝐞 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐧 𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐯𝐢𝐨𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐬𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐛𝐲 𝐰𝐡𝐢𝐥𝐞 𝐏𝐚𝐥𝐞𝐬𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐢𝐚𝐧 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐈𝐬𝐫𝐚𝐞𝐥𝐢 𝐜𝐢𝐯𝐢𝐥𝐢𝐚𝐧𝐬 𝐩𝐚𝐲 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐩𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐥 𝐟𝐚𝐢𝐥𝐮𝐫𝐞.
    Please sign our petition and make your voice heard. Together we’re calling on the Foreign Secretary to ensure:
    ⚠️ An immediate ceasefire
    ⚠️ Urgent access to food, water and humanitarian aid for civilians
    ⚠️ A real commitment to lasting peace for all, with justice, dignity and a future for Palestinian and Israeli people
    ⚠️ Anyone held captive must be released.

    It's correct, in terms of what it contains.

    There is one issue. Why is release of the hostages last, not first?

    If the hostages are released then Israel has no grounds to invade Gaza. That leads to the ceasefire. Then the crossings can be reopened and aid sent in. Finally, it can cause the political changes in Israel and Gaza that might lead to proper consideration of a lasting peace.

    So the right list, but the wrong order. I would be interested to know why. It may just be their press officer is as dim as Susan Acland-Hood, or it may be that it was tacked on as an afterthought to try for balance. Without knowing more it's difficult to say.

    Edit - also, the 'anyone held captive' could be interpreted as the hostages being legitimate prisoners of war, which they're not. The Hamas operatives Israel has seized could be considered as such (and need to be so considered) but civilian hostages are a different matter. So again, at best poor phrasing.
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