The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
And yet here we are. Support for our fellow citizens is support for “Israeli genocide”. Whilst the Good People who support the poor oppressed Palestinians call for genocide and that’s ok.
What does Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea mean? Free of what specifically? It’s a call for genocide against Jews, and once again British Jews are in fear for their own safety with good reason, and we’re told that actually it might be their fault actually because they haven’t decried Israel actually.
It is an ambiguous slogan but can equally mean freedom for all Palestinians between the river Jordan and the Med (the area of the Mandate of Palestine) as any genocidal intent. Like any political slogans can mean whatever the speaker or the audience wants.
Come off it. It doesn’t say “Palestinians” or “the Palestinian People”. It’s very clear it is referring to a free state of Palestine between the Jordan and the Med.
Now you can perhaps semantically argue that this doesn’t preclude there being some sort of State of Israel, but it’s quite torturous to have to do so.
Some probably do think that chant means a land free (of Jews), some think it means a land where Palestinians aren't being treated so badly by everyone. Most probably aren't thinking at all beyond it being a snappy rhyme.
Forget what's happening in the Middle East for a moment. What's happening to people in the UK at the moment- the hatred towards Jews and Moslems, the insistence that people condemn one side, the jumping on the worst possible interpretations, is horrible. Whoever is doing it to who.
Something something motes and beams, as a famous resident of the area once put it.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
And yet here we are. Support for our fellow citizens is support for “Israeli genocide”. Whilst the Good People who support the poor oppressed Palestinians call for genocide and that’s ok.
What does Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea mean? Free of what specifically? It’s a call for genocide against Jews, and once again British Jews are in fear for their own safety with good reason, and we’re told that actually it might be their fault actually because they haven’t decried Israel actually.
It is an ambiguous slogan but can equally mean freedom for all Palestinians between the river Jordan and the Med (the area of the Mandate of Palestine) as any genocidal intent. Like any political slogans can mean whatever the speaker or the audience wants.
Come off it. It doesn’t say “Palestinians” or “the Palestinian People”. It’s very clear it is referring to a free state of Palestine between the Jordan and the Med.
Now you can perhaps semantically argue that this doesn’t preclude there being some sort of State of Israel, but it’s quite torturous to have to do so.
Some probably do think that chant means a land free (of Jews), some think it means a land where Palestinians aren't being treated so badly by everyone. Most probably aren't thinking at all beyond it being a snappy rhyme.
Forget what's happening in the Middle East for a moment. What's happening to people in the UK at the moment- the hatred towards Jews and Moslems, the insistence that people condemn one side, the jumping on the worst possible interpretations, is horrible. Whoever is doing it to who.
Something something motes and beams, as a famous resident of the area once put it.
Jews Christians Muslims - we all worship the same God. And the further down the religions you go the more the earlier religions are credited.
Man’s greatest sin is turning faith into violence.
It might not yet be a problem for us, but other species aren’t doing so well.
Highly pathogenic avian #influenza #H5N1 confirmed in mass mortality of elephant seals (Mirounga leonina) in #Argentina. Over 1300 elephant seal pups found dead, representing 56-74% mortality, normally less than 1%. https://twitter.com/thijskuiken/status/1718127841370345675
That's pretty bad. Time to stop attracting birds to the house with bird feeders?
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
That should be the absolute bare minimum we have a right to expect in a decent society. And yet plenty of people in this country do think it OK to attack or abuse British Jews, simply because they are Jews and even though some of them have friends or family who have been murdered or taken hostage.
The sheer cruelty and lack of human decency displayed is revolting.
Pishing it doon here. Looks as if you'll catch the same weather system in an hour or so, alas.
I'd planned a walk to a (local) Transylvanian shop this morning to get some nice sausages for a casserole. But the prospect of a 40 minute walk in this rain has made me reconsider my plan somewhat. If it doesn't die down later it's going to make the early dark evening feel all the grimmer.
In cheerier news I've managed to wangle a solid three weeks off over Christmas. So that is cheering me up quite a bit.
I've got more than £1,000 in cash for no readily apparent reason. I mostly use it for tips in the fish and chip shop.
More pertinent and perhaps a source of nostalgic regret is this line from a report on yesterday's betting ring action at Cheltenham racecourse: the days of punters pulling £20,000 from a shopping bag and having it on are over, sadly. Cards and on the account is the way these days. https://www.starsportsbet.co.uk/simon-nott-betting-blog-cheltenham-saturday-4/
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
And yet here we are. Support for our fellow citizens is support for “Israeli genocide”. Whilst the Good People who support the poor oppressed Palestinians call for genocide and that’s ok.
What does Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea mean? Free of what specifically? It’s a call for genocide against Jews, and once again British Jews are in fear for their own safety with good reason, and we’re told that actually it might be their fault actually because they haven’t decried Israel actually.
It is an ambiguous slogan but can equally mean freedom for all Palestinians between the river Jordan and the Med (the area of the Mandate of Palestine) as any genocidal intent. Like any political slogans can mean whatever the speaker or the audience wants.
Come off it. It doesn’t say “Palestinians” or “the Palestinian People”. It’s very clear it is referring to a free state of Palestine between the Jordan and the Med.
Now you can perhaps semantically argue that this doesn’t preclude there being some sort of State of Israel, but it’s quite torturous to have to do so.
The proposal to replace the state of Israel with (for example) a non-religious state isn't a proposal for genocide. They're distinct things. In principle Jews living in such a state could be under less of a threat than they are now. You can argue that the second would likely result from the first if you like, but it's a weird conversation as you need to assume a whole bunch of wild hypotheticals for it to happen any time in the foreseeable future.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
I wrote a couple of articles back in March 2020 about warning signs of illiberalism in our country. Of course, what with other events no-one paid a blind bit of notice.
I am reposting them now because they are, IMO, as - if not more - relevant than ever.
This section from the second article seems pertinent today.
Anti Semitism has been devalued by all the false claims made back then.
As for you bleating on about how terrible it is for British Jews right now.
You have no sense of proportion
There are 2 million in Gaza who are suffering a genocidal attack from Netanyahu. So I think the lot of British Jews is a lot better than those Gazans don't you. Your priorities are all to cock.
The petition in solidarity with British Jews has less100 signatories the one on a ceasefire in Gaza nearly 600,000 which accurately reflects the scale of suffering IMO
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
And yet here we are. Support for our fellow citizens is support for “Israeli genocide”. Whilst the Good People who support the poor oppressed Palestinians call for genocide and that’s ok.
What does Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea mean? Free of what specifically? It’s a call for genocide against Jews, and once again British Jews are in fear for their own safety with good reason, and we’re told that actually it might be their fault actually because they haven’t decried Israel actually.
Whose support for which of our fellow citizens is akin to genocide? And you do know the protestors you deplore are also British citizens?
You are a very good and succinct poster. I wish I could be. I read that waffle and thought 'where do you start' and then couldn't be bothered.
Some forecasts are very worrying. Even the milder ones have rain for the foreseeable future.
Britain set to FREEZE as -20C Scandinavian ‘cold pool’ threatens to blanket UK in snow ... A massive -20C Scandinavian ‘cold pool’ will drive days of torrential downpours in what is feared could be a Storm Babet copycat deluge. https://www.gbnews.com/weather/uk-weather-scandinavian-cold-pool-snow-storm
It might be the weather that clears protestors from the streets.
"Keir Starmer you can't hide. You're supporting genocide"
True dat
When did Starmer become a supporter of genocide?
Since Trevor Chinn cashed his investment.
"Sir Trevor Edwin Chinn CVO is a British businessman, philanthropist, and political activist. He is an active lobbyist for Israel and funded Keir Starmer’s leadership campaign for the Labour Party."
"Keir Starmer you can't hide. You're supporting genocide"
True dat
When did Starmer become a supporter of genocide?
When he started starving British kids.
He's literally worse than Hitler.
Exponentially
For the British hard left centrist Labour leaders are even worse than Tories, the Conservatives are always their enemy but if Labour goes right it prevents them even making the case for socialism and a foreign policy divorced from the US and Israel through the Labour Party as they did with Corbyn and Foot. Hence they hated Blair and now hate Starmer
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
And yet here we are. Support for our fellow citizens is support for “Israeli genocide”. Whilst the Good People who support the poor oppressed Palestinians call for genocide and that’s ok.
What does Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea mean? Free of what specifically? It’s a call for genocide against Jews, and once again British Jews are in fear for their own safety with good reason, and we’re told that actually it might be their fault actually because they haven’t decried Israel actually.
It is an ambiguous slogan but can equally mean freedom for all Palestinians between the river Jordan and the Med (the area of the Mandate of Palestine) as any genocidal intent. Like any political slogans can mean whatever the speaker or the audience wants.
Come off it. It doesn’t say “Palestinians” or “the Palestinian People”. It’s very clear it is referring to a free state of Palestine between the Jordan and the Med.
Now you can perhaps semantically argue that this doesn’t preclude there being some sort of State of Israel, but it’s quite torturous to have to do so.
The proposal to replace the state of Israel with (for example) a non-religious state isn't a proposal for genocide. They're distinct things. In principle Jews living in such a state could be under less of a threat than they are now. You can argue that the second would likely result from the first if you like, but it's a weird conversation as you need to assume a whole bunch of wild hypotheticals for it to happen any time in the foreseeable future.
Unquestioning support of whatever the Israeli government does, regardless of the civilian casualties in Gaza, has become an article of faith to some here, not something susceptible to reasoned discussion.
It's a useful reminder of how easy many people find it to blot out the most basic instinct of human compassion. It explains a lot about history.
Firstly as far as I can tell nobody here knows anything about Israel/Palestine, and secondly we can't comment on Israel's plan because nobody seems to know what it is, or even whether they have one.
Tiny piddling obstacles to folk pronouncing at length and with obdurate passionate intensity on the subject. Just like all the other subjects.
That tells me (a) they're scum, but I knew that already (b) that protests are still ongoing, but I knew that too after the Palestinian flag got booed and (c) one very plausible reason for Hamas attacking now is that Iran's government feels under pressure.
The last is not surprising. Its population are in revolt, its allies in Russia are at best failing to advance and at worst retreating, it has lost in Armenia (where there was another act of ethnic cleansing a couple of months ago that passed almost unremarked even on here apart from me and a couple of replies) their economy is struggling with high inflation and the Arabs are moving towards Israel and the West rather than Iran and a pan-Islamic alliance.
What happens if the ayatollahs' regime collapses is anyone's guess. It would be nice to think a democratic and stable government would emerge, but that's not the usual outcome. It could be a hardline military regime under the Revolutionary Guard which would be even worse.
Too much of the region still relies on Russia for its defences, and it’s slowly dawning on them that the Russians have somewhat overstretched themselves in their own back yard recently, and won’t be coming coming to help this time.
The Saudis, in particular, aren’t interested in any more protracted conflict in the region. They have their own “2030 Vision” plans, which involves a lot of building and international tourism on the Red Sea, turning the coastline into Dubai on steroids, and definitely doesn’t involve a war next door. Hence their plans to normalise relations with Israel, as many of their Gulf neighbours have done already. I suspect that MBS visiting Washington next week will be to try and further that agenda, MBS likely needs American support against many of his own elders.
Yemen is a fly in the ointment in that plan. How do you see it panning out ?
Good question, but I suspect it calms down when the Iranians realise they can’t keep Yemen and Gaza supplied at the same time, when their stocks of weapons are rapidly diminishing, and Russia’s not supplying them with any more. That lack of Russian supply means that the ‘Stans don’t want to be giving up stocks either.
"Keir Starmer you can't hide. You're supporting genocide"
True dat
When did Starmer become a supporter of genocide?
When he started starving British kids.
He's literally worse than Hitler.
Exponentially
For the British hard left centrist Labour leaders are even worse than Tories, the Conservatives are always their enemy but if Labour goes right it prevents them even making the case for socialism and a foreign policy divorced from the US and Israel through the Labour Party as they did with Corbyn and Foot. Hence they hated Blair and now hate Starmer
I liked Blair (I did not support him on Iraq though)
I dislike SKS (I know PBers will be shocked by that)
Off topic, DPD's tracking thingy is displaying the delivery van as a broomstick and the delivery address as a spooky haunted house.
In my experience, DPD's tracking is 10-20 minutes behind real time, so start looking out the windows while the broomstick is still some distance away. This, I suspect, is why so many complain of "you were out" cards being stuck through the door when they were actually indoors or in the garden.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
And yet here we are. Support for our fellow citizens is support for “Israeli genocide”. Whilst the Good People who support the poor oppressed Palestinians call for genocide and that’s ok.
What does Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea mean? Free of what specifically? It’s a call for genocide against Jews, and once again British Jews are in fear for their own safety with good reason, and we’re told that actually it might be their fault actually because they haven’t decried Israel actually.
It is an ambiguous slogan but can equally mean freedom for all Palestinians between the river Jordan and the Med (the area of the Mandate of Palestine) as any genocidal intent. Like any political slogans can mean whatever the speaker or the audience wants.
Come off it. It doesn’t say “Palestinians” or “the Palestinian People”. It’s very clear it is referring to a free state of Palestine between the Jordan and the Med.
Now you can perhaps semantically argue that this doesn’t preclude there being some sort of State of Israel, but it’s quite torturous to have to do so.
The proposal to replace the state of Israel with (for example) a non-religious state isn't a proposal for genocide. They're distinct things. In principle Jews living in such a state could be under less of a threat than they are now. You can argue that the second would likely result from the first if you like, but it's a weird conversation as you need to assume a whole bunch of wild hypotheticals for it to happen any time in the foreseeable future.
Unquestioning support of whatever the Israeli government does, regardless of the civilian casualties in Gaza, has become an article of faith to some here, not something susceptible to reasoned discussion.
It's a useful reminder of how easy many people find it to blot out the most basic instinct of human compassion. It explains a lot about history.
I hope that wasn’t referring to me as I made the original post (which I perhaps did not express particularly well).
I do not unquestioningly support what the Israeli government does. Indeed I find the whole thing very troubling from all angles and I am really saddened by the loss of life on both sides. I am very concerned by the fact that many Jewish people are feeling vulnerable, and I do wish that we could draw some of the invective out of the debate on both sides. From that comes a responsibility to be careful with the language we choose, which I guess was where I was trying to go with my post. But perhaps not demonstrating the best or most measured tone myself, which is a lesson to me!
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
That should be the absolute bare minimum we have a right to expect in a decent society. And yet plenty of people in this country do think it OK to attack or abuse British Jews, simply because they are Jews and even though some of them have friends or family who have been murdered or taken hostage.
The sheer cruelty and lack of human decency displayed is revolting.
I have to ask: define "abuse" in this context. The term is ambiguous.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
How many hundreds of thousands of Germans did we deliberately kill by bombing civilian areas ?
How many millions of Germans were ethnically cleansed from Eastern Europe ?
Yet we don't now see Germans demanding all the territory 'From the Meuse to the Memel' or 'From the Adige to the Little Belt'.
Because the Germans have instead created a successful country in the territory which was left to them.
And until the Palestinians are able to find a place where they can do that they will continue to filled by resentments irrespective of what Israel does.
But there is no chance that they can do that in Gaza because an area smaller than the Isle of Wight is never going to be able to economically sustain over two million people.
Pishing it doon here. Looks as if you'll catch the same weather system in an hour or so, alas.
Morning Carnyx, rained most of night but dry at the moment, obviously know I am on holiday this week so guaranteed to be horrendous. I have some trees to be trimmed etc , so fingers crossed.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
The above petition doesn't seem to be gaining much traction. I thought I should highlight this one instead, which already has over 60,000 signatures, including some very well known individuals:
Whoever invented these time shifts obviously didn't have a toddler at the time.
Least bedtime should be easy enough with this change...
Yeah. Makes zero difference.
Up at 4.45am instead of 5.45am.
Likewise with the dogs. I now have my face licked at 5am instead of 6am.
Conversely great for our teenage son. Dragging him up before midday is a constant challenge. Today, combined with a 3 hour difference from the last weeks in Georgia, he was up and at it by 8am.
Hope you got home ok following your, er, travails.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
That should be the absolute bare minimum we have a right to expect in a decent society. And yet plenty of people in this country do think it OK to attack or abuse British Jews, simply because they are Jews and even though some of them have friends or family who have been murdered or taken hostage.
The sheer cruelty and lack of human decency displayed is revolting.
It really is hard to believe, but given the amount of really stupid , absolutely immoral morons wandering our streets I am not surprised. How did the UK get so low and crap in just 50 years. Too much molly coddling of wasters and ne'er do wells.
Just thinking of the pure politics and not the morals, Charlie Kennedy would have been eating into the Labour vote over this wouldn’t be?
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
That should be the absolute bare minimum we have a right to expect in a decent society. And yet plenty of people in this country do think it OK to attack or abuse British Jews, simply because they are Jews and even though some of them have friends or family who have been murdered or taken hostage.
The sheer cruelty and lack of human decency displayed is revolting.
It really is hard to believe, but given the amount of really stupid , absolutely immoral morons wandering our streets I am not surprised. How did the UK get so low and crap in just 50 years. Too much molly coddling of wasters and ne'er do wells.
This is where my new policy proposal comes in. Everyone over 35 gets issued with a pistol and one round. New rounds to be issued on proof that you dealt with a wrong’un. Acceptable reasons range from standing on the wrong side of an escalator, to using the phrase “my truth”.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
What would you have them do , say it was bad but let's be pals and wait till the next time it happens. No matter what side you think is right , one thing is certain the israelis are not going to get caught again , any Palestian who can get out should do so pronto as they are going to be flattening the place despite all the hand wringing and Arab " non support". The biggest thing for me is the lip service only that every arab country has given, not one of them doing anything constructive , Egypt closing their borders. The Palestinians are only tools for these despots. Why not force Hamas to release the hostages and get their cheque books out and build a real home for the Palestinians instead of funding teh terrorists.
Just thinking of the pure politics and not the morals, Charlie Kennedy would have been eating into the Labour vote over this wouldn’t be?
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
I suggest that the question is, where is Layla Moran? But I agree with you, we should’ve heard more from the Lib Dems on the subject.
All of the people calling for a ceasefire who were silent on 7 October are a disgrace.
I don’t understand what people think they mean? We would all agree with a ceasefire under which all sides stopped their attacks, and all hostages were released. Of course we would need Hamas to lay down and decommission its arms, and it’s just possible that could be the sticking point.
Off topic, DPD's tracking thingy is displaying the delivery van as a broomstick and the delivery address as a spooky haunted house.
At least it's not Evri who just have an animated ghoul throwing your parcel over hedges.
I post and receive stuff by post a lot and I have to say EVRI/Hermes have massively upped their game, c. several hundred individual items over the last year without a hitch. Nominating a delivery point not your home (local newsagent in my case) seems to make a big difference.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
The above petition doesn't seem to be gaining much traction. I thought I should highlight this one instead, which already has over 60,000 signatures, including some very well known individuals:
Well the reason that one gains signatories is that it should.
Everyone with decency does stand with those affected by 7th October attacks
The reason why the one you linked to previously isnt gaining much support is because it is one eyed tin eared and wrong headed (like you) at a time when 1m people have had to leave their homes and 8k and rising have been killed out of revenge.
The plight of British Jews is a bit less important than halting genocide
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
That should be the absolute bare minimum we have a right to expect in a decent society. And yet plenty of people in this country do think it OK to attack or abuse British Jews, simply because they are Jews and even though some of them have friends or family who have been murdered or taken hostage.
The sheer cruelty and lack of human decency displayed is revolting.
It really is hard to believe, but given the amount of really stupid , absolutely immoral morons wandering our streets I am not surprised. How did the UK get so low and crap in just 50 years. Too much molly coddling of wasters and ne'er do wells.
This is where my new policy proposal comes in. Everyone over 35 gets issued with a pistol and one round. New rounds to be issued on proof that you dealt with a wrong’un. Acceptable reasons range from standing on the wrong side of an escalator, to using the phrase “my truth”.
I look forward to mine arriving. Only issue is with the amount of targets about it would be tough to only get one at a time.
Pishing it doon here. Looks as if you'll catch the same weather system in an hour or so, alas.
Morning Carnyx, rained most of night but dry at the moment, obviously know I am on holiday this week so guaranteed to be horrendous. I have some trees to be trimmed etc , so fingers crossed.
Oh good, it looks on the radar as if you missed the system after all, fortunately - maybe a little bit but nothing to compare with luck. The Weegies are catching it instead, but then they always seem to anyway.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
And yet here we are. Support for our fellow citizens is support for “Israeli genocide”. Whilst the Good People who support the poor oppressed Palestinians call for genocide and that’s ok.
What does Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea mean? Free of what specifically? It’s a call for genocide against Jews, and once again British Jews are in fear for their own safety with good reason, and we’re told that actually it might be their fault actually because they haven’t decried Israel actually.
It is an ambiguous slogan but can equally mean freedom for all Palestinians between the river Jordan and the Med (the area of the Mandate of Palestine) as any genocidal intent. Like any political slogans can mean whatever the speaker or the audience wants.
Come off it. It doesn’t say “Palestinians” or “the Palestinian People”. It’s very clear it is referring to a free state of Palestine between the Jordan and the Med.
Now you can perhaps semantically argue that this doesn’t preclude there being some sort of State of Israel, but it’s quite torturous to have to do so.
Neither does it specify Jewish genocide. Hence I described it as an ambiguous slogan .
Plenty of slogans are ambiguous on literal reading.
Just thinking of the pure politics and not the morals, Charlie Kennedy would have been eating into the Labour vote over this wouldn’t be?
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
Is Davey still leader, I thought he had emigrated or something.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
Support for Hamas amongst people in Gaza varies according to survey, but it's clear vast swathes of Palestinians support Hamas. If large numbers did not, Hamas could not maintain power. Don't start pretending that every Palestinian civilian in Gaza is innocent of supporting a genocidal, anti-Semitic, homophobic and terrorist organisation.
As do, I fear, many of the people protesting yesterday,
Off topic, DPD's tracking thingy is displaying the delivery van as a broomstick and the delivery address as a spooky haunted house.
At least it's not Evri who just have an animated ghoul throwing your parcel over hedges.
I post and receive stuff by post a lot and I have to say EVRI/Hermes have massively upped their game, c. several hundred individual items over the last year without a hitch. Nominating a delivery point not your home (local newsagent in my case) seems to make a big difference.
Off topic, DPD's tracking thingy is displaying the delivery van as a broomstick and the delivery address as a spooky haunted house.
At least it's not Evri who just have an animated ghoul throwing your parcel over hedges.
I post and receive stuff by post a lot and I have to say EVRI/Hermes have massively upped their game, c. several hundred individual items over the last year without a hitch. Nominating a postal point not your home (local newsagent in my case) seems to make a big difference.
To counter that - I had a delivery from them this week - just an A5 padded envelope. Had a notification from them on Thursday morning that they would deliver that day. Then at 7pm "There is a problem with your parcel" and it was delayed till Friday. Friday morning another "We'll deliver today!" then at about 6pm "There was a problem with your parcel! We'll deliver it next working day!" (which I took to mean Monday).
The on Saturday had an email saying "Your parcel is out for delivery between 12:30 and 2.30!". Which then turned up at 11am just a few minutes after I'd got back from the shops.
Previous package I had from them they delivered to to the wrong address altogether, so I suppose I should be thankful.
Pishing it doon here. Looks as if you'll catch the same weather system in an hour or so, alas.
Morning Carnyx, rained most of night but dry at the moment, obviously know I am on holiday this week so guaranteed to be horrendous. I have some trees to be trimmed etc , so fingers crossed.
Oh good, it looks on the radar as if you missed the system after all, fortunately - maybe a little bit but nothing to compare with luck. The Weegies are catching it instead, but then they always seem to anyway.
Just thinking of the pure politics and not the morals, Charlie Kennedy would have been eating into the Labour vote over this wouldn’t be?
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
I suggest that the question is, where is Layla Moran? But I agree with you, we should’ve heard more from the Lib Dems on the subject.
You can say that you don't mean genocide of the Jews when you say it; you may even believe it. But others screeching it *will* be meaning that, and your shouting of it gives power to them and their calls.
If we assume 30 years as the nostalgia barrier (the assumption that year N looks back with fondness at the events of year N-30 and is influenced by it) then this video about the style and looks of late 90s/early 00's will be relevant
This ties in with the death of Matthew Perry. "Friends" was made and released ("aired", as they used to say) between 1994 and 2004. Which is why his death made the news.
Oh incidentally, next year "The Matrix" will be 25 years old.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
You are right about the evil of blaming one set of Jews for the action of another set. Some of the protestors you deplore might take an analogous view of the IDF killing uninvolved Palestinian civilians for the actions of another set, viz Hamas.
What do you mean uninvolved? They are involved - involuntarily. Hamas are their neighbours. Using them as human shields. London’s Jews are not involved in any way - other than sharing a faith.
The equivalent would be going and abusing random British Muslims for Hamas. Madness. But apparently it’s ok if it’s Jews. They’re all guilty or something
No-one here said it is OK to attack or abuse British Jews.
That should be the absolute bare minimum we have a right to expect in a decent society. And yet plenty of people in this country do think it OK to attack or abuse British Jews, simply because they are Jews and even though some of them have friends or family who have been murdered or taken hostage.
The sheer cruelty and lack of human decency displayed is revolting.
It really is hard to believe, but given the amount of really stupid , absolutely immoral morons wandering our streets I am not surprised. How did the UK get so low and crap in just 50 years. Too much molly coddling of wasters and ne'er do wells.
This is where my new policy proposal comes in. Everyone over 35 gets issued with a pistol and one round. New rounds to be issued on proof that you dealt with a wrong’un. Acceptable reasons range from standing on the wrong side of an escalator, to using the phrase “my truth”.
Shirley a document explaining how to tie a running noose, and maybe an example, would be more traditional in DIY justice?
Pishing it doon here. Looks as if you'll catch the same weather system in an hour or so, alas.
Morning Carnyx, rained most of night but dry at the moment, obviously know I am on holiday this week so guaranteed to be horrendous. I have some trees to be trimmed etc , so fingers crossed.
Oh good, it looks on the radar as if you missed the system after all, fortunately - maybe a little bit but nothing to compare with luck. The Weegies are catching it instead, but then they always seem to anyway.
what can one say Carnyx, divine retribution
spoke to soon , it has started raining , someone is listening
Just thinking of the pure politics and not the morals, Charlie Kennedy would have been eating into the Labour vote over this wouldn’t be?
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
I suggest that the question is, where is Layla Moran? But I agree with you, we should’ve heard more from the Lib Dems on the subject.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
Support for Hamas amongst people in Gaza varies according to survey, but it's clear vast swathes of Palestinians support Hamas. If large numbers did not, Hamas could not maintain power.
You can say that you don't mean genocide of the Jews when you say it; you may even believe it. But others screeching it *will* be meaning that, and your shouting of it gives power to them and their calls.
They are phrases to avoid; not excuse.
Anyone who claims “from the river to the sea” isn’t calling the destruction of Israel is naive or stupid.
As it happens, 90% of the time they actually are naive and just haven’t read into the issue they are protesting about. They want goodies and baddies, and simplicity, and Israel/Palestine isn’t like that.
The only sensible peace proposal starts with “I wouldn’t start from here but we are where are…” and this issue is that (for understandable reasons) that doesn’t butter any Palestinian parsnips.
Just following on from the posts earlier today on Rawnsley's excellent piece today, here is on further paragraph from it. It briefly summarises three truths WRT Israel/Palestine: no position is universally popular; the UK is not a big player in this; we follow USA policy until whenever it is that we don't.
Personally I am glad we are not a big player. As to how it splits group opinion, the Israel/Palestine thing is very like Brexit in three important respects: It cuts across normal political boundaries; there is (generally) no 'middle position' permitted in debate or policy; the position you take is often regarded as a 'tainting' sin by others - it means you are just wrong about all things.
There is no position that Sir Keir can take which will be universally popular in his party and he is at the mercy of events which are beyond his control, never an attractive position for a leader to find himself in. On the list of countries with the capacity to meaningfully influence the conduct, duration and outcome of this conflict, the UK is not at the top. Not even near the top. Mr Sunak is effectively flying in the slipstream of the Americans, because he has very limited independent leverage as the UK’s prime minister.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
Support for Hamas amongst people in Gaza varies according to survey, but it's clear vast swathes of Palestinians support Hamas. If large numbers did not, Hamas could not maintain power.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
The above petition doesn't seem to be gaining much traction. I thought I should highlight this one instead, which already has over 60,000 signatures, including some very well known individuals:
Well the reason that one gains signatories is that it should.
Everyone with decency does stand with those affected by 7th October attacks
The reason why the one you linked to previously isnt gaining much support is because it is one eyed tin eared and wrong headed (like you) at a time when 1m people have had to leave their homes and 8k and rising have been killed out of revenge.
The plight of British Jews is a bit less important than halting genocide
So the safety of British citizens in the UK is not a first order issue?
I'm sorry but there is relatively little we can do about the situation in Gaza. We don't have serious influence on the Israeli government. We COULD do something about protecting the Jewish population in the UK. But it doesn't seem like a priority.
I wrote a couple of articles back in March 2020 about warning signs of illiberalism in our country. Of course, what with other events no-one paid a blind bit of notice.
I am reposting them now because they are, IMO, as - if not more - relevant than ever.
This section from the second article seems pertinent today.
Anti Semitism has been devalued by all the false claims made back then.
As for you bleating on about how terrible it is for British Jews right now.
You have no sense of proportion
There are 2 million in Gaza who are suffering a genocidal attack from Netanyahu. So I think the lot of British Jews is a lot better than those Gazans don't you. Your priorities are all to cock.
The petition in solidarity with British Jews has less100 signatories the one on a ceasefire in Gaza nearly 600,000 which accurately reflects the scale of suffering IMO
"Genocide". You and you're ilk are devaluing this word. The Holocaust was a genocide, what happened in Rwanda was a genocide, Armenians suffered a genocide. What is happening in Gaza is retaliation for a terrorist attack by the government of Gaza. If you want Israel to stop then go and ask Hamas to give the hostages back.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
Support for Hamas amongst people in Gaza varies according to survey, but it's clear vast swathes of Palestinians support Hamas. If large numbers did not, Hamas could not maintain power.
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius
I can believe that was what the Palestinians who went into Israel and killed a few weeks ago were thinking.
Where are these Palestinians going to live when the war is over? So many of their homes are being destroyed. Does Israel have an answer? Does it care?
The Hamas funders should be the ones to sort it out
The Saudis are spending $500bn to create their new NEOM megacity not far away.
It could easily accommodate all the Gazans.
If the Saudis wanted them that is.
Nobody wants them. Other Arab countries who previously took in large numbers of Palestinians have tended to throw them back out because they support terrorist causes and generally very hard line Islamists. Egypt, Jordan and Syria have all been burned and none will open their borders to take in refugees. Western governments must also refuse. We already have too many of these hardline Islamists on our streets, if anything we should be getting rid of those that we have with citizenship withdrawal for dual nationals and naturalised citizens who clearly want the destruction of this nation.
Where are these Palestinians going to live when the war is over? So many of their homes are being destroyed. Does Israel have an answer? Does it care?
The Hamas funders should be the ones to sort it out
Who are the Hamas funders?
Your side is 6-1 up and its not even HT
Not my side mate, I have no connection or allegiance for either but common sense says the Arab nations fund Hamas ( they keep it for themselves , guns living high on the hog etc ), some of them at least , the Arab nations collectively have done little to nothing for Palestinians and do not want to offer them land. Also after 7th October performance if I was Israeli them I would not be looking for a ceasefire as it would just give them the green light to do same again later. Hamas need to be obliterated totally.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
The above petition doesn't seem to be gaining much traction. I thought I should highlight this one instead, which already has over 60,000 signatures, including some very well known individuals:
Well the reason that one gains signatories is that it should.
Everyone with decency does stand with those affected by 7th October attacks
The reason why the one you linked to previously isnt gaining much support is because it is one eyed tin eared and wrong headed (like you) at a time when 1m people have had to leave their homes and 8k and rising have been killed out of revenge.
The plight of British Jews is a bit less important than halting genocide
So the safety of British citizens in the UK is not a first order issue?
I'm sorry but there is relatively little we can do about the situation in Gaza. We don't have serious influence on the Israeli government. We COULD do something about protecting the Jewish population in the UK. But it doesn't seem like a priority.
Doesn’t seem as though we can even get British citizens out!
To answer the header - with lots and lots of dead children.
Down to the right-wing nationalists who lead both Israel and Hamas. Plenty of left-wing and right-wing demonstarators in this country proving that they know f-all about the true nature of this conflict and that they are not interested in a peaceful settlement. Hamas are child-murdering scum. So Israel are the heroes here? Ask Yitzhak Rabin - murdered for seeking peace by people now in the Israeli Govt. Take note of the funding and support for Hamas by the Israeli right in order to undermine the then Palestinian leadership. Why - to help block a peaceful solution.
This is not a football match. There are legitimate claims on both sides. There are terrorists on both sides. There are no heroes - only dead children. I don't care if those children are Israeli or Palestinian - neither do they now. They are just dead and can't even hear the fools and psycopaths cheering their murders.
Where are these Palestinians going to live when the war is over? So many of their homes are being destroyed. Does Israel have an answer? Does it care?
The Hamas funders should be the ones to sort it out
The Saudis are spending $500bn to create their new NEOM megacity not far away.
It could easily accommodate all the Gazans.
If the Saudis wanted them that is.
Nobody wants them. Other Arab countries who previously took in large numbers of Palestinians have tended to throw them back out because they support terrorist causes and generally very hard line Islamists. Egypt, Jordan and Syria have all been burned and none will open their borders to take in refugees. Western governments must also refuse. We already have too many of these hardline Islamists on our streets, if anything we should be getting rid of those that we have with citizenship withdrawal for dual nationals and naturalised citizens who clearly want the destruction of this nation.
Indeed.
Nobody else in the region the Palestinians.
Yet Israel is then condemned for not wanting them either.
The great irony being that the most successful Palestinians are those who stayed in Israel after 1948.
I wrote a couple of articles back in March 2020 about warning signs of illiberalism in our country. Of course, what with other events no-one paid a blind bit of notice.
I am reposting them now because they are, IMO, as - if not more - relevant than ever.
This section from the second article seems pertinent today.
Anti Semitism has been devalued by all the false claims made back then.
As for you bleating on about how terrible it is for British Jews right now.
You have no sense of proportion
There are 2 million in Gaza who are suffering a genocidal attack from Netanyahu. So I think the lot of British Jews is a lot better than those Gazans don't you. Your priorities are all to cock.
The petition in solidarity with British Jews has less100 signatories the one on a ceasefire in Gaza nearly 600,000 which accurately reflects the scale of suffering IMO
"Genocide". You and you're ilk are devaluing this word. The Holocaust was a genocide, what happened in Rwanda was a genocide, Armenians suffered a genocide. What is happening in Gaza is retaliation for a terrorist attack by the government of Gaza. If you want Israel to stop then go and ask Hamas to give the hostages back.
Hard to believe you almost never see anyone in Britain say free the hostages , lay down your arms, send out hte murderers from 7th October , etc and then talk about peace. Bizarre.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
Support for Hamas amongst people in Gaza varies according to survey, but it's clear vast swathes of Palestinians support Hamas. If large numbers did not, Hamas could not maintain power. Don't start pretending that every Palestinian civilian in Gaza is innocent of supporting a genocidal, anti-Semitic, homophobic and terrorist organisation.
As do, I fear, many of the people protesting yesterday,
Without elections and with only one side having guns, how would Palestinians rid themselves of Hamas? Or any other population of any other murderous dictatorship? Look at ex-Soviet states that are now democracies but who never rose to the armed overthrow of Stalin or his successors.
But here is the paradox. As Israel flattens Gaza, its people will look to whoever is willing to shoot back, which is Hamas, just as Israelis rallied behind the flag after their countrymen (and women and children) were mown down on 7th October.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
The above petition doesn't seem to be gaining much traction. I thought I should highlight this one instead, which already has over 60,000 signatures, including some very well known individuals:
Well the reason that one gains signatories is that it should.
Everyone with decency does stand with those affected by 7th October attacks
The reason why the one you linked to previously isnt gaining much support is because it is one eyed tin eared and wrong headed (like you) at a time when 1m people have had to leave their homes and 8k and rising have been killed out of revenge.
The plight of British Jews is a bit less important than halting genocide
Fuck you and your disgusting false allegations of genocide.
Israel has fought multiple wars against the Arab world, and won all of them. A single defeat would have resulted in the death of large numbers of Jews living in Israel, plus nowhere to run for the millions of Jews forced out of every Muslim country over the past hundred years. There's now a million Muslims living peaceably in Israel - more than there are Jews living in all Muslim countries put together - most of whom support Israel's attempts to wipe out Hamas, whom they recognise as an utter stain on their religion and culture. If Israel wanted to commit genocide against Palestinians, it's had umpteen opportunities to do so, and instead, their population keep rising exponentially. If Israel was bombing Gaza indiscriminately, the death toll would now be in the hundreds of thousands, and all their hospitals (in which Hamas insists on embedding its command infrastructure) would be in ruins.
The only reason genocide even gets mentioned is because parts of the Arab world simply can't accept that the Jews won't do to them what they so desperately wanted - and many still want - to do to the Jews.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
Support for Hamas amongst people in Gaza varies according to survey, but it's clear vast swathes of Palestinians support Hamas. If large numbers did not, Hamas could not maintain power.
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius
I can believe that was what the Palestinians who went into Israel and killed a few weeks ago were thinking.
At least go to the effort of looking up the Latin for "they started it".
I see an increasing whine about the Palestinians being an unattractive, troublesome people that no country should or would accept into their own territory, and a barely subliminal approval of the IDF giving them what they deserve.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
I too have an old French clock which needs rewinding forward but now have no idea of what the correct time is. Not that it makes a huge difference here.
I’ve signed the solidarity pledge. Regardless of the rights and wrongs in Gaza, on whichever side of the fence you sit, British Jews are Not Responsible.
The reason why I give Israel more leeway than may otherwise happen is because of what has happened in this country and in others since Hamas blew this up.
It is blatant and depressing anti-semitism to blame one set of Jews for the alleged actions of another set of Jews. And the people who screech on about false claims of antisemitism against their belovlied Jeremy are so often the ones making antisemitic accusations against British Jews. I have seen it with my own eyes.
Another protest in that London yesterday chanting “from the River to the Sea Palestine will be free”. Free of Jews they mean. At best a pogrom. At worst a genocide. And the hard left think that is a just cause - usually because the Jew is more than capable of looking after themselves as they are so rich - more antisemitism.
The above petition doesn't seem to be gaining much traction. I thought I should highlight this one instead, which already has over 60,000 signatures, including some very well known individuals:
Well the reason that one gains signatories is that it should.
Everyone with decency does stand with those affected by 7th October attacks
The reason why the one you linked to previously isnt gaining much support is because it is one eyed tin eared and wrong headed (like you) at a time when 1m people have had to leave their homes and 8k and rising have been killed out of revenge.
The plight of British Jews is a bit less important than halting genocide
So the safety of British citizens in the UK is not a first order issue?
I'm sorry but there is relatively little we can do about the situation in Gaza. We don't have serious influence on the Israeli government. We COULD do something about protecting the Jewish population in the UK. But it doesn't seem like a priority.
Doesn’t seem as though we can even get British citizens out!
Following 7 October it is hardly realistic to expect anyone (apart from IDF) to be entering or leaving Gaza via Israel.
Egypt however is in a different position. Of the options the only realistic one to prevent utter siege of the entire population is for Egypt to allow exit into Egyptian territory, using if necessary military means to do so.
If (as no doubt we shall be told) this is impossible then the laws of reality suggest no others whatsoever.
I see an increasing whine about the Palestinians being an unattractive, troublesome people that no country should or would accept into their own territory, and a barely subliminal approval of the IDF giving them what they deserve.
Echoes of the 1930s.
Or from some of the protestors yesterday you see slogans that Israel should effectively not even exist
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
Support for Hamas amongst people in Gaza varies according to survey, but it's clear vast swathes of Palestinians support Hamas. If large numbers did not, Hamas could not maintain power. Don't start pretending that every Palestinian civilian in Gaza is innocent of supporting a genocidal, anti-Semitic, homophobic and terrorist organisation.
As do, I fear, many of the people protesting yesterday,
Without elections and with only one side having guns, how would Palestinians rid themselves of Hamas? Or any other population of any other murderous dictatorship? Look at ex-Soviet states that are now democracies but who never rose to the armed overthrow of Stalin or his successors.
But here is the paradox. As Israel flattens Gaza, its people will look to whoever is willing to shoot back, which is Hamas, just as Israelis rallied behind the flag after their countrymen (and women and children) were mown down on 7th October.
"...how would Palestinians rid themselves of Hamas?"
In the ways many countries have rid themselves of dictators. Dictators survive by keeping enough of the people supportive, especially enough of the 'right' people. But we've seen dictators overthrown time and time again by popular revolt. Idi Amin or Ceaușescu being two examples.
You blame Israel's actions for getting Gazans to rally behind the evil of Hamas. I'd argue far too many did so beforehand.
The other thread has been closed, which in the absence of any new news might have been the wrong choice but here we are.
I blame the end of daylight saving time, and call for an immediate judge led inquiry into keeping BST for the whole year to avoid confusing PB's editors.
(Is that the right way to do it?)
On topic - badly. Which is what Hamas wants and why Netanyahu is being even more foolish than usual.
I think Hamas would actually prefer Gaza as a wasteland occupied by Israel to a two state solution. It allows them to extend their grievance and get loads more lovely cash from their backers to maintain their personally lavish lifestyles (and kill Jews).
And unfortunately, so would Likud, who naively believe it would secure Israel's future as a Jewish state encompassing the whole of Mandatory Palestine.
The Palestinian people wouldn't, according to such information as we have, but nobody involved seems to care about them (including these idiot protestors in the West).
A hat tip to @Cyclefree for this article by Simon Sebag Montefiore:
There is one mistake in it. The number of Jews who are non-white (insofar as that label has any meaning) is around 3-3.5 million not 5 million. I think he may have added in the Muslim and Christian populations to get to 5 million but it is a little misleading.
Otherwise, it's a good article and well worth reading.
Now you've finished Sebag Montefiore's well known Zionist pleadings you might enjoy this which gives a slightly more interesting and relevant picture of things as they really are. A review by Jonathan Friedland
Reposting this from the other day as it was addressed to you but you may not have been on -
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
Indeed. But can you not see that in killing thousands in Gaza who are not card-carrying (or grenade throwing) Hamas supporters, Israel is provoking some to the same conclusion as you but about the other side? And extremists on both sides, even if not welcoming death, will lap it up as proving what they have always said: that the other lot cannot be trusted.
Support for Hamas amongst people in Gaza varies according to survey, but it's clear vast swathes of Palestinians support Hamas. If large numbers did not, Hamas could not maintain power.
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius
I can believe that was what the Palestinians who went into Israel and killed a few weeks ago were thinking.
At least go to the effort of looking up the Latin for "they started it".
Please express your point clearly, and in English.
I do find it interesting that there's been no real push back from Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia or Qatar to Israel's ground invasion and stepping up the campaign against Hamas.
It's almost as though the neighbouring countries are aligned with Israel and want Hamas eradicated too but would prefer not to have their fingerprints on it.
Just thinking of the pure politics and not the morals, Charlie Kennedy would have been eating into the Labour vote over this wouldn’t be?
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
As Davey was a member of the Cameron coalition government and the LDs he leads are now right of even Starmer Labour let alone the old Charles Kennedy LDs.
Those who want to vote for a party left of Labour will now go Green or TUSC or SNP not the LDs
Off topic, DPD's tracking thingy is displaying the delivery van as a broomstick and the delivery address as a spooky haunted house.
At least it's not Evri who just have an animated ghoul throwing your parcel over hedges.
I post and receive stuff by post a lot and I have to say EVRI/Hermes have massively upped their game, c. several hundred individual items over the last year without a hitch. Nominating a postal point not your home (local newsagent in my case) seems to make a big difference.
To counter that - I had a delivery from them this week - just an A5 padded envelope. Had a notification from them on Thursday morning that they would deliver that day. Then at 7pm "There is a problem with your parcel" and it was delayed till Friday. Friday morning another "We'll deliver today!" then at about 6pm "There was a problem with your parcel! We'll deliver it next working day!" (which I took to mean Monday).
The on Saturday had an email saying "Your parcel is out for delivery between 12:30 and 2.30!". Which then turned up at 11am just a few minutes after I'd got back from the shops.
Previous package I had from them they delivered to to the wrong address altogether, so I suppose I should be thankful.
There is certainly something odd about their system. I get the feeling they sometimes overdo the number of parcels per courier and on occasion they plain run out of time and they just have to leave the rest to the next day. But it doesn't always make sense even from that angle.
You can say that you don't mean genocide of the Jews when you say it; you may even believe it. But others screeching it *will* be meaning that, and your shouting of it gives power to them and their calls.
They are phrases to avoid; not excuse.
Anyone who claims “from the river to the sea” isn’t calling the destruction of Israel is naive or stupid.
As it happens, 90% of the time they actually are naive and just haven’t read into the issue they are protesting about. They want goodies and baddies, and simplicity, and Israel/Palestine isn’t like that.
The only sensible peace proposal starts with “I wouldn’t start from here but we are where are…” and this issue is that (for understandable reasons) that doesn’t butter any Palestinian parsnips.
Israel/Palestine is like that, just they need to stop and think "are we the baddies".
On the one hand we've got a democracy, the only one in the region, that despite being invaded and threatened ever since its creation is like all democracies willing to agree peace with whoever will agree peace with it. A country where courts and the rule of law matters, where people have rights and responsibilities.
On the other hand we have a fascist dictatorship that hasn't allowed any elections in its land, where gays are murdered, that wants to murder every Jew in the region (and is open about it), that kills children deliberately, rapes women deliberately, treats women at the best of times as second class, and started this recent round of bloodshed as it was trying to block the other parties attempts at securing peace.
Sorry, this is good versus evil. These idiots are simply on the side of the "baddies".
I wrote a couple of articles back in March 2020 about warning signs of illiberalism in our country. Of course, what with other events no-one paid a blind bit of notice.
I am reposting them now because they are, IMO, as - if not more - relevant than ever.
This section from the second article seems pertinent today.
Anti Semitism has been devalued by all the false claims made back then.
As for you bleating on about how terrible it is for British Jews right now.
You have no sense of proportion
There are 2 million in Gaza who are suffering a genocidal attack from Netanyahu. So I think the lot of British Jews is a lot better than those Gazans don't you. Your priorities are all to cock.
The petition in solidarity with British Jews has less100 signatories the one on a ceasefire in Gaza nearly 600,000 which accurately reflects the scale of suffering IMO
"Genocide". You and you're ilk are devaluing this word. The Holocaust was a genocide, what happened in Rwanda was a genocide, Armenians suffered a genocide. What is happening in Gaza is retaliation for a terrorist attack by the government of Gaza. If you want Israel to stop then go and ask Hamas to give the hostages back.
Hard to believe you almost never see anyone in Britain say free the hostages , lay down your arms, send out hte murderers from 7th October , etc and then talk about peace. Bizarre.
I would suggest that, or some variation of it, is the standard middling position of many, especially older, political centrists in the UK - the sort that vote, don't demonstrate, expect our centrist politicians to do their job, and have no quarrel with good people on all sides.
They have a special dislike of seeing children and babies murdered by barbarians; many of them cried at telly coverage of young mothers and their babies/children going into exile from Ukraine leaving their menfolk behind and have cried again recently on 7 October and after, and find it so unthinkable they don't want to talk about it.
Hardest to talk about for decent people is the dilemma facing Israel whose policies involve also killing children and babies in their beds. Most don't think Israelis are also barbarians; every effort is under way to change this perspective.
Just thinking of the pure politics and not the morals, Charlie Kennedy would have been eating into the Labour vote over this wouldn’t be?
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
As Davey was a member of the Cameron coalition government and the LDs he leads are now right of even Starmer Labour let alone the old Charles Kennedy LDs.
Those who want to vote for a party left of Labour will now go Green or TUSC or SNP not the LDs
The left vs right labels are becoming less and less appropriate, so far as I can see.
Where are these Palestinians going to live when the war is over? So many of their homes are being destroyed. Does Israel have an answer? Does it care?
The Hamas funders should be the ones to sort it out
Who are the Hamas funders?
Your side is 6-1 up and its not even HT
Not my side mate, I have no connection or allegiance for either but common sense says the Arab nations fund Hamas ( they keep it for themselves , guns living high on the hog etc ), some of them at least , the Arab nations collectively have done little to nothing for Palestinians and do not want to offer them land. Also after 7th October performance if I was Israeli them I would not be looking for a ceasefire as it would just give them the green light to do same again later. Hamas need to be obliterated totally.
Also, on 6th October there was already a ceasefire. Who ended it?
I do find it interesting that there's been no real push back from Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia or Qatar to Israel's ground invasion and stepping up the campaign against Hamas.
It's almost as though the neighbouring countries are aligned with Israel and want Hamas eradicated too but would prefer not to have their fingerprints on it.
There's probably wider geopolitics at play. Iran is behind Hezbollah, and Iran and Qatar 'help' Hamas. If you're not on good terms with those countries, then you probably don't want Hamas to succeed. In particular, although it was supposed to be cooling down, the Iran-Saudi proxy conflict may well be playing a part. The latest chapter in a conflict between Arab and Persians that has been ongoing for centuries...
You can say that you don't mean genocide of the Jews when you say it; you may even believe it. But others screeching it *will* be meaning that, and your shouting of it gives power to them and their calls.
They are phrases to avoid; not excuse.
Anyone who claims “from the river to the sea” isn’t calling the destruction of Israel is naive or stupid.
As it happens, 90% of the time they actually are naive and just haven’t read into the issue they are protesting about. They want goodies and baddies, and simplicity, and Israel/Palestine isn’t like that.
The only sensible peace proposal starts with “I wouldn’t start from here but we are where are…” and this issue is that (for understandable reasons) that doesn’t butter any Palestinian parsnips.
Apologies if I'm mistaken, but don't Likud and other right-wing Israelis also want a land "from the river to the sea"?
Just thinking of the pure politics and not the morals, Charlie Kennedy would have been eating into the Labour vote over this wouldn’t be?
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
As Davey was a member of the Cameron coalition government and the LDs he leads are now right of even Starmer Labour let alone the old Charles Kennedy LDs.
Those who want to vote for a party left of Labour will now go Green or TUSC or SNP not the LDs
The left vs right labels are becoming less and less appropriate, so far as I can see.
Economically the current LDs are led by an Orange Booker, under Davey their economic and social policies are little different to Cameron's Conservatives. Just they strongly opposed Brexit and so that is the main distinction between them and the post Brexit Tories. That is why the vast majority of their target seats (and most of their current MPs) are in southern former Tory seats in the bluewall which voted Remain, and they also make gains locally from the Tories campaigning on a Nimby ticket from voters for whom Labour are still too leftwing
You can say that you don't mean genocide of the Jews when you say it; you may even believe it. But others screeching it *will* be meaning that, and your shouting of it gives power to them and their calls.
They are phrases to avoid; not excuse.
Anyone who claims “from the river to the sea” isn’t calling the destruction of Israel is naive or stupid.
As it happens, 90% of the time they actually are naive and just haven’t read into the issue they are protesting about. They want goodies and baddies, and simplicity, and Israel/Palestine isn’t like that.
The only sensible peace proposal starts with “I wouldn’t start from here but we are where are…” and this issue is that (for understandable reasons) that doesn’t butter any Palestinian parsnips.
Apologies if I'm mistaken, but don't Likud and other right-wing Israelis also want a land "from the river to the sea"?
From my little knowledge, I don't think that's Likud's stated policy. There will be hardliners who think that (*), but it's not as though the people screeching it on the streets in the UK are referring to an Israeli state.
(*) You can find hardliners in any country who think very odd (and sometimes self-defeating) things.
I do find it interesting that there's been no real push back from Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Saudi Arabia or Qatar to Israel's ground invasion and stepping up the campaign against Hamas.
It's almost as though the neighbouring countries are aligned with Israel and want Hamas eradicated too but would prefer not to have their fingerprints on it.
Why would Shia Iran be supporting Sunni Hamas? Obviously destroying Israel is a mutual aim but isn't there the added benefit of sowing discord in the Sunni world.
The biggest fallacy I see get quoted here is because Hamas wants war, Israel shouldn't fight one.
What should Israel do instead? Rollover and play dead? Let Hamas strike them and just turn the other cheek and say "come, take more hostages, rape more women, kill more babies, be our guest"?
When the other party wants war, then sometimes the only thing to do is give them what they want - and defeat them until they don't want it anymore.
The Jihadis are no better than Nazi Germany. They lack its power, but they have the same authoritarian rule in Gaza, anyone who speaks against them would get murdered, they've destroyed any nascent democracy there, and if they had the chance they would genocidally murder every single Jew "from the river to the sea" as they openly say. Their writings are as horrific and evil and as open as Mein Kampf.
When the Nazis wanted war, we didn't turn around and say "well you want war, so we're not playing your game, no war for you". We eventually said "if there needs to be war, there will be war, and we will beat you".
That is exactly the situation Israel faces, for its survival, and they need to fight the war and fight it to win.
Any civilians caught in the crossfire its a tragedy, but their concerns should be as secondary to Israel as German civilians concerns were to us in WWII. In war you have to put your own people first - if only Hamas felt the same, the Palestinians would not be in the situation they're in.
Comments
Forget what's happening in the Middle East for a moment. What's happening to people in the UK at the moment- the hatred towards Jews and Moslems, the insistence that people condemn one side, the jumping on the worst possible interpretations, is horrible. Whoever is doing it to who.
Something something motes and beams, as a famous resident of the area once put it.
Man’s greatest sin is turning faith into violence.
The sheer cruelty and lack of human decency displayed is revolting.
In cheerier news I've managed to wangle a solid three weeks off over Christmas. So that is cheering me up quite a bit.
More pertinent and perhaps a source of nostalgic regret is this line from a report on yesterday's betting ring action at Cheltenham racecourse: the days of punters pulling £20,000 from a shopping bag and having it on are over, sadly. Cards and on the account is the way these days.
https://www.starsportsbet.co.uk/simon-nott-betting-blog-cheltenham-saturday-4/
"Have you ever read Benevolence and Betrayal by Alexander Stille? You should. It's about 5 Italian Jewish families under fascism. One of them is led by a man who supports Mussolini, thinks fascism a good thing, ingratiates himself with the regime and thinks he will be safe. He is one of the good pro-Italy-under-Mussolini Jews. When I read your comments I think of that man. Too late he realises that all his sucking up and ingratiation and support for the regime is of no consequence. The only thing that matters about him is that he is a Jew - nothing else - not his support or his money or his opinions. Too late he tries to escape. He does not and is murdered.
That, Roger, is how Hamas view you. They don't care about your dislike of Netanyahu or that you call Israel a one-eyed country or that you support the Palestinian cause. They didn't care about the elderly journalist who wrote about the Sabra and Chatila massacres and Israel's shameful role in them. They still took him hostage. They didn't care about the woman who had been helping Palestinians in Gaza get medical treatment. They took her hostage too. They didn't care about the Israeli IT CEO who was building businesses inside Gaza to give good jobs to Gazans. They still killed his 15 year old daughter. They kill Jews because they are Jews - because of who they are not because of their opinions or what they have done or who they vote for. That is what their Charter says and it is what they have done and will continue doing until they are stopped. You are profoundly naive if you think otherwise."
As for you bleating on about how terrible it is for British Jews right now.
You have no sense of proportion
There are 2 million in Gaza who are suffering a genocidal attack from Netanyahu. So
I think the lot of British Jews is a lot better than those Gazans don't you. Your priorities are all to cock.
The petition in solidarity with British Jews has less100 signatories the one on a ceasefire in Gaza nearly 600,000 which accurately reflects the scale of suffering IMO
Britain set to FREEZE as -20C Scandinavian ‘cold pool’ threatens to blanket UK in snow
...
A massive -20C Scandinavian ‘cold pool’ will drive days of torrential downpours in what is feared could be a Storm Babet copycat deluge.
https://www.gbnews.com/weather/uk-weather-scandinavian-cold-pool-snow-storm
It might be the weather that clears protestors from the streets.
"Sir Trevor Edwin Chinn CVO is a British businessman, philanthropist, and political activist. He is an active lobbyist for Israel and funded Keir Starmer’s leadership campaign for the Labour Party."
It's a useful reminder of how easy many people find it to blot out the most basic instinct of human compassion. It explains a lot about history.
Just like all the other subjects.
I dislike SKS (I know PBers will be shocked by that)
I do not unquestioningly support what the Israeli government does. Indeed I find the whole thing very troubling from all angles and I am really saddened by the loss of life on both sides. I am very concerned by the fact that many Jewish people are feeling vulnerable, and I do wish that we could draw some of the invective out of the debate on both sides. From that comes a responsibility to be careful with the language we choose, which I guess was where I was trying to go with my post. But perhaps not demonstrating the best or most measured tone myself, which is a lesson to me!
How many millions of Germans were ethnically cleansed from Eastern Europe ?
Yet we don't now see Germans demanding all the territory 'From the Meuse to the Memel' or 'From the Adige to the Little Belt'.
Because the Germans have instead created a successful country in the territory which was left to them.
And until the Palestinians are able to find a place where they can do that they will continue to filled by resentments irrespective of what Israel does.
But there is no chance that they can do that in Gaza because an area smaller than the Isle of Wight is never going to be able to economically sustain over two million people.
Does Israel have an answer? Does it care?
https://britishfriendsofisrael.org/
That Davey isn’t either says something about his decency (perhaps that he broadly agrees with Sunak and Starmer) or shows the LibDems have a really long way to go to reliably be part of the national debate again.
https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/1718231149732888898
All of the people calling for a ceasefire who were silent on 7 October are a disgrace.
The biggest thing for me is the lip service only that every arab country has given, not one of them doing anything constructive , Egypt closing their borders. The Palestinians are only tools for these despots. Why not force Hamas to release the hostages and get their cheque books out and build a real home for the Palestinians instead of funding teh terrorists.
Everyone with decency does stand with those affected by 7th October attacks
The reason why the one you linked to previously isnt gaining much support is because it is one eyed tin eared and wrong headed (like you) at a time when 1m people have had to leave their homes and 8k and rising have been killed out of revenge.
The plight of British Jews is a bit less important than halting genocide
Blue Lives Matter
As do, I fear, many of the people protesting yesterday,
The on Saturday had an email saying "Your parcel is out for delivery between 12:30 and 2.30!". Which then turned up at 11am just a few minutes after I'd got back from the shops.
Previous package I had from them they delivered to to the wrong address altogether, so I suppose I should be thankful.
What on earth has happened to England’s bowlers or is it a very slow pitch? India is not playing the way they normally do.
https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran
You can say that you don't mean genocide of the Jews when you say it; you may even believe it. But others screeching it *will* be meaning that, and your shouting of it gives power to them and their calls.
They are phrases to avoid; not excuse.
"Y2K Millennium Aesthetic Analysis - Techno-utopian futurism of early 2000's" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMeoeGGEimE
This ties in with the death of Matthew Perry. "Friends" was made and released ("aired", as they used to say) between 1994 and 2004. Which is why his death made the news.
Oh incidentally, next year "The Matrix" will be 25 years old.
Strange fruit and al that.
Given that England can (just about) mathematically still progress, it would be hilarious if they now start to play and go on to win the tournament.
Very england.
It could easily accommodate all the Gazans.
If the Saudis wanted them that is.
Your side is 6-1 up and its not even HT
Dictation facility made of a mess of that; had to pick it out with one finger!
As it happens, 90% of the time they actually are naive and just haven’t read into the issue they are protesting about. They want goodies and baddies, and simplicity, and Israel/Palestine isn’t like that.
The only sensible peace proposal starts with “I wouldn’t start from here but we are where are…” and this issue is that (for understandable reasons) that doesn’t butter any Palestinian parsnips.
Personally I am glad we are not a big player. As to how it splits group opinion, the Israel/Palestine thing is very like Brexit in three important respects: It cuts across normal political boundaries; there is (generally) no 'middle position' permitted in debate or policy; the position you take is often regarded as a 'tainting' sin by others - it means you are just wrong about all things.
There is no position that Sir Keir can take which will be universally popular in his party and he is at the mercy of events which are beyond his control, never an attractive position for a leader to find himself in. On the list of countries with the capacity to meaningfully influence the conduct, duration and outcome of this conflict, the UK is not at the top. Not even near the top. Mr Sunak is effectively flying in the slipstream of the Americans, because he has very limited independent leverage as the UK’s prime minister.
Rawnsley today
I'm sorry but there is relatively little we can do about the situation in Gaza. We don't have serious influence on the Israeli government. We COULD do something about protecting the Jewish population in the UK. But it doesn't seem like a priority.
Hamas need to be obliterated totally.
Down to the right-wing nationalists who lead both Israel and Hamas. Plenty of left-wing and right-wing demonstarators in this country proving that they know f-all about the true nature of this conflict and that they are not interested in a peaceful settlement. Hamas are child-murdering scum. So Israel are the heroes here? Ask Yitzhak Rabin - murdered for seeking peace by people now in the Israeli Govt. Take note of the funding and support for Hamas by the Israeli right in order to undermine the then Palestinian leadership. Why - to help block a peaceful solution.
This is not a football match. There are legitimate claims on both sides. There are terrorists on both sides. There are no heroes - only dead children. I don't care if those children are Israeli or Palestinian - neither do they now. They are just dead and can't even hear the fools and psycopaths cheering their murders.
Nobody else in the region the Palestinians.
Yet Israel is then condemned for not wanting them either.
The great irony being that the most successful Palestinians are those who stayed in Israel after 1948.
But here is the paradox. As Israel flattens Gaza, its people will look to whoever is willing to shoot back, which is Hamas, just as Israelis rallied behind the flag after their countrymen (and women and children) were mown down on 7th October.
Israel has fought multiple wars against the Arab world, and won all of them. A single defeat would have resulted in the death of large numbers of Jews living in Israel, plus nowhere to run for the millions of Jews forced out of every Muslim country over the past hundred years. There's now a million Muslims living peaceably in Israel - more than there are Jews living in all Muslim countries put together - most of whom support Israel's attempts to wipe out Hamas, whom they recognise as an utter stain on their religion and culture. If Israel wanted to commit genocide against Palestinians, it's had umpteen opportunities to do so, and instead, their population keep rising exponentially. If Israel was bombing Gaza indiscriminately, the death toll would now be in the hundreds of thousands, and all their hospitals (in which Hamas insists on embedding its command infrastructure) would be in ruins.
The only reason genocide even gets mentioned is because parts of the Arab world simply can't accept that the Jews won't do to them what they so desperately wanted - and many still want - to do to the Jews.
Just say you don't like Jews and be done with it.
https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace/status/1718357352515023181
Echoes of the 1930s.
Egypt however is in a different position. Of the options the only realistic one to prevent utter siege of the entire population is for Egypt to allow exit into Egyptian territory, using if necessary military means to do so.
If (as no doubt we shall be told) this is impossible then the laws of reality suggest no others whatsoever.
In the ways many countries have rid themselves of dictators. Dictators survive by keeping enough of the people supportive, especially enough of the 'right' people. But we've seen dictators overthrown time and time again by popular revolt. Idi Amin or Ceaușescu being two examples.
You blame Israel's actions for getting Gazans to rally behind the evil of Hamas. I'd argue far too many did so beforehand.
It's almost as though the neighbouring countries are aligned with Israel and want Hamas eradicated too but would prefer not to have their fingerprints on it.
Those who want to vote for a party left of Labour will now go Green or TUSC or SNP not the LDs
On the one hand we've got a democracy, the only one in the region, that despite being invaded and threatened ever since its creation is like all democracies willing to agree peace with whoever will agree peace with it. A country where courts and the rule of law matters, where people have rights and responsibilities.
On the other hand we have a fascist dictatorship that hasn't allowed any elections in its land, where gays are murdered, that wants to murder every Jew in the region (and is open about it), that kills children deliberately, rapes women deliberately, treats women at the best of times as second class, and started this recent round of bloodshed as it was trying to block the other parties attempts at securing peace.
Sorry, this is good versus evil. These idiots are simply on the side of the "baddies".
They have a special dislike of seeing children and babies murdered by barbarians; many of them cried at telly coverage of young mothers and their babies/children going into exile from Ukraine leaving their menfolk behind and have cried again recently on 7 October and after, and find it so unthinkable they don't want to talk about it.
Hardest to talk about for decent people is the dilemma facing Israel whose policies involve also killing children and babies in their beds. Most don't think Israelis are also barbarians; every effort is under way to change this perspective.
Remarkable.
(*) You can find hardliners in any country who think very odd (and sometimes self-defeating) things.
What should Israel do instead? Rollover and play dead? Let Hamas strike them and just turn the other cheek and say "come, take more hostages, rape more women, kill more babies, be our guest"?
When the other party wants war, then sometimes the only thing to do is give them what they want - and defeat them until they don't want it anymore.
The Jihadis are no better than Nazi Germany. They lack its power, but they have the same authoritarian rule in Gaza, anyone who speaks against them would get murdered, they've destroyed any nascent democracy there, and if they had the chance they would genocidally murder every single Jew "from the river to the sea" as they openly say. Their writings are as horrific and evil and as open as Mein Kampf.
When the Nazis wanted war, we didn't turn around and say "well you want war, so we're not playing your game, no war for you". We eventually said "if there needs to be war, there will be war, and we will beat you".
That is exactly the situation Israel faces, for its survival, and they need to fight the war and fight it to win.
Any civilians caught in the crossfire its a tragedy, but their concerns should be as secondary to Israel as German civilians concerns were to us in WWII. In war you have to put your own people first - if only Hamas felt the same, the Palestinians would not be in the situation they're in.