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Sunak is no real improvement on Truss – politicalbetting.com
Sunak is no real improvement on Truss – politicalbetting.com
One year into his tenure, Rishi Sunak has not reduced the number of 2019 Conservative voters saying they will vote for another party at the next electionLast poll under Johnson: 20%Last poll under Truss: 30%Latest poll under Sunak: 28% pic.twitter.com/dKxOqzS9zu
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What bottomless level of depravity, inhumanity and hatred must you inhabit, to casually chat with a friend then shoot a 7 year old girl hiding under a table?
I’ve read about this stuff with the Nazis in the Holocaust. The absolute chilled-out relaxation with which they murdered children
This tells me that the constant indoctrination of gazan kids into jew-hatred has gone so far it cannot be redeemed
The only plausible outcome from this is an all out war between Israel and its enemies, and who knows how that ends up for the rest of us?
At least she had ideas, even if you disagreed with them, and the reaction to her was out of all proportion to what what actually announced, led by the Sunakites in the PCP and media.
Offtopic - Is it me or are these shared appreciation mortgages
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-67122324
not dissimilar to https://www.gov.uk/help-to-buy-equity-loan ?
Trying to remember the one back in the 80s, where a PLO guy entering/leaving Israel through a beach at night killed a mother and child, quite deliberately.
"It's the economy, stupid"
In the same way no rational centrist has a reason to vote Tory until they have lost and undertaken to change to a non populist centrist One Nation party. Sunak has taken steps to avoid deliberately further trashing the country - he isn't Boris or Truss - but still runs a populist shower of shallow, dishonest people. As for his louder MPs.....
Winner/ loser/ voided?
Have to say I tried to place a bet only to find out. None of the sites I would bet with would not place a bet due to me being in Spain.
Anyone know how to place a wager in Spain? Fancy a cricket bet before my return on Thursday
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This is what boggles my mind - the clear prioritisation of one group of peoples' lives over another; both of whom are distant groups that, in the grand scheme of things, barely impact our lives.
If your concern is for dying children the only position you can take is one where Israel stops all bombardments of Gaza from the sky - which has resulted in the death of hundreds, maybe even thousands, of children.
The only solution to a lasting peace in the region is one where Israel is not an oppressive, apartheid state. As long as Israel creates more orphans, there will be Palestinians who see violence as the only possible route to freedom.
That is the rules of law, blockades are lawful at times of war.
If the Red Cross/Red Crescent etc want to provide water or other aid during war then they can, via Egypt, if Egypt consents, but there is no obligation on Israel to provide aid to its enemy while at war.
The UK would not have supplied materials to Germany during WWII.
I am noting that it nonetheless takes a special pure level of evil hatred to casually shoot a cowering seven year old child hiding under a table - and to do that solely because of her identity. Jewish
Have you not read any Holocaust history? This is a new page of that Holocaust history. It is bleak
He’s meant to be Mister Security Big Bollocks. He’s summoned the entire army. Yet he stays the blade
He can see where this all-too-plausibly ends
Look at Mandela and South Africa. He tried peaceful protest against South African apartheid, and saw peaceful protesters shot. After that, he prepared for violent resistance training with other nationalist movements in Africa, with the Cubans, and other resistance fighters. He was arrested after the ANC started planning and carrying out terrorism. There is no other word for what they did; bombings, tire fires, etc. When he was in jail Mandela was told he might be released if he publicly decried violence as a method of ending apartheid, and disavowed the socialist and communist theorists and activists who he looked to and trained with. He refused. He stayed in prison. He would not claim, as a black man imprisoned for fighting for his freedom by state violence, that people should not have the option of violence to end that oppression. Violence was not his first choice, but in the face of state repression and violence that makes peaceful change impossible - violence is all that was left.
One issue is getting the anti-Israel side to admit any hate.
In the run up to 67, the Egyptian cabinet met to discuss what they would do after Israel was overrun. Nasser proposed setting aside funds to hire passengers ships to expel the entire Jewish population of Israel. Several cabinet members suggested in response they should use cattle transports and that they wouldn’t need many of them.
It wasn’t a mistake if you want a Labour government, obviously
Shooting an unarmed child in cold blood is not a part of war. It is against the law, even during war.
One is depressing but justified and necessary.
The other is murder.
Short of telling the band to start playing "Near my God to Thee", what should he have done differently?
1. Hamas terrorist shoots small child in the head in cold blood with no warning.
2. Israel bombs kill small child who was still in Gaza because their parents had ignored the warning to leave because bombs would be dropped
War is shit. Death is death. But there is a clear and rather obvious difference between the two.
I would guess that unless Israel actively declare war on Iran then Iran and a few others will fund and arm a massively upscale long proxy war and terrorism against Israel and the US across the world.
I do appreciate that distinction doesn't come as any comfort to the families of civilians killed by strikes. But it is nevertheless a really important distinction that has been applied not just to this but to all wars.
They should have got rid of BoZo much, much earlier...
Currently the vast majority of deaths are happening in Gaza so it’s natural that the Israeli response and proportionality is much more to the forefront .
I haven’t seen a single poster fail to be appalled at Hamas . What else is there to say at this point regarding 7 October?
Hopefully the delay in the IDF moving in is because of negotiations by Qatar etc to release more hostages which should be the priority .
What kind of hatred of Palestinians allows for the shooting of peaceful protesters approaching the border fence, killing dozens including children?
This graph detailing the dead Palestinian children over years 2015-2021:
https://www.dci-palestine.org/2021_is_deadliest_year_for_palestinian_children_since_2014
How many of them were killed in cold blood by an IDF soldier?
You keep making this solely about anti-Semitism and Jew hatred, and I have no doubt that many Palestinians and especially Hamas express anti-Semitism and Jew hatred, but that is in the context of being oppressed by the state of Israel for years. Does that make it right? As I have continually said, no. But your suggestion that it is uniquely evil, akin to Nazi Jew hatred, in the face of what could more simply be explained as the tragedy of "eye for an eye" retributive violence contributes to the exaggerated monstering of Palestinians.
1) total victory - violence - by one side. Hamas doesn’t have the capability to win this means. Israel could only displace the problem
2)!Peace can only happen when both sides are willing. Hamas is not. Israel I think would be if it was a guaranteed peace but Netenyahu is very sceptical. The conditions for peace must be the exhaustion of one side
So no near term solution
This is not to say israel isn't at fault through their actions either. Frankly I take the view that mostly they are both beyond redemption and have ceased to care about either side. Build a wall around the whole area and come back in a 100 years and see who is left
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/18/opinion/netanyahu-israel-gaza.html
And then Hamas was elected. Hamas whose stated aim is to destroy Israel and drive it into the sea (isn't there a catchy song that describes this?). And from that point Israel withdrew cooperation and imposed other restrictions. Against the government of Gaza which sought to destroy it.
The idea that those poor Palestinians were minding their own business when an Israeli grenade went off under their table is, sadly, risible. Sadly because the world needs people like you who look to the positive in everything. Right now, however, you are acting as Hamas' useful idiot.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/11-un-staff-30-pupils-at-un-schools-killed-in-gaza-says-spokesperson/
They aren’t glove puppets.
In war bombardment is entirely legal.
Don't want bombardments? Don't go to war.
It's also worth remembering that it has been the policy of Netanhyahu and his governments to keep Hamas in power.
https://www.addameer.org/publications/arrest-and-detention-palestinian-legislative-council-members
That was also in 2006 - where the average age of Palestinians now (or at least prior to the recent Israeli campaign) in Gaza was 18. And, once again, Hamas have been propped up by Netanyahu and his administrations post their election precisely because Netanyahu did not want to have to negotiate with moderates and instead wanted to perpetuate the violence.
Bomber Harris was clear about wanting the German people to reap the whirlwind (though that led to him being excluded from polite company post war); with Israelis from Netanyahu down literally talking about revenge, I suspect reaping rather than targeted bombing is part of their current zeitgeist.
Edit: correction, there’s about double the weight of bombs used in a WWII 1000 bomber raid being dropped on Gaza in six days.
Pagan asked what else Israel could do instead of bombing civilians. I made a suggestion. I don't expect you or any of the other warmongers on here to agree wth it because frankly you have shown you don't give a flying fuck about civilian casualties as long as they are Arabs.
Some of us do and so are looking for ways they could be reduced.
In the Uk it was fed particularly that week by the blowing up of poorly regulated LDI pensions that almost no one seemed to realise was happening. The bloke responsible for that still in his job. He’s a “technocrat” you see.
Afghanistan 1.43 / 1.44
Pakistan 3.15 / 3.3
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/cricket/icc-cricket-world-cup/pakistan-v-afghanistan-betting-32727482
So lets take the way the IDF have dealt with kids. We've all seen the edited videos. Child throwing stones gets shot and killed. And certainly some of those killings will be outrageous. But others hide the barrage that the IDF patrol had come under.
The whole point in the media is that it is mediated. I can take a real undoctored clip and make it about something completely different by clipping it. So yes, some of the IDF actions have been crimes. Many others are portrayed as crimes when if they were looked at dispassionately with all the evidence they clearly wouldn't be.
But what about these Hamas films. How do you clip them to put them into a different context? Especially the ones that Hamas have released to show their ISIS-style butchery. There is no justification for these killings. None. A shooting at a birder fence in a skirmish is not a moral equivalent justification for storming into a Kibbutz to murder and behead and rape and burn.
https://x.com/tconnellyrte/status/1716464100857786565
There is now a tendency to separate out Hamas on the one hand, and Palestinian hard working families on the other. As if it was a big secret that Hamas was dedicated to the destruction of Israel. I don't think this is credible.
As I have said often, Israel believes it is at war. Under such circumstances the call for it to behave as though this was "just" another terrorist attack is misunderstanding the dynamic and motivation of its current actions.
You can see this my looking at UK bond yields during the Truss Premiership and comparing them to peers. The UK yield premium absolutely blew out.
For your theory to be true UK bond yields simply reverted to normal levels before everyone else. But that clearly didn't happen: UK bond yields went out during the Truss premiership, came back in when she was defenestrated, and then moved largely in lockstep with our peers.
a) The State of Israel
b) The Navajo Autonomous Territory
Its an unreasonable demand you are making. In times of war, bombardments happen. Israel has warned civilians to avoid certain areas prior to doing the bombardments - if Hamas would fight in the open and not hide amongst civilians (a war crime itself) then there'd be far fewer civilian casualties.
I do not think they should be decolonised with separate indigenous / native states. In an ideal world, I think a sincere effort at truth and reconciliation, alongside reparations to indigenous communities and an incorporation of their traditions and life into the body politic is preferable to partition.
That is unlikely in those cases, and other similar countries like Canada, mostly due to the genocide of the native peoples reducing the numbers to such a degree that they can and will continued to be ignored. At a minimum an honest assessment of the colonisation of those lands and peoples alongside active attempts to work with those communities to exist how they wish to should happen.
a) Israel
b) Russia
Displacing people to try as surgically as possible to decapitate Hamas has to be better than levelling Gaza. You said that is what they are doing - not true. They could have just bombed the place to rubble with the civilians in place. Instead they told them to leave, knowing that Hamas would almost certainly embed themselves in the civilians heading for safety.
We saw the other night with the hospital blast that the Terrorists are quite happy setting themselves up in urban areas, using the civilians as human shields. Hamas and IJ have no interest in civilian lives either - they want them to be martyred.
By the way what’s the difference between the deficit plan of Kwarteng vs Biden’s IRA. What’s the latest forecast of the Federal deficit this year, 6%? 7%?
I don’t claim that the Truss/Kwaeteng presentation and timing were ideal. But I do think had she ridden out the headlines and stood by his chancellor and his budget, uk yields wouldn’t look so different to today. But there’s a reasonable chance the polls would look pretty different .
Kids do stupid shit, and throw stones at cops and soldiers. Is that really an acceptable reason to shoot them?
I do not think it is in any way excusable for anyone to shoot a child - hiding under a table, or walking up to a border fence and demanding freedom. And yet Israeli soldiers are given the benefit of the doubt, despite the data being that Israel kills lots of civilians including children all the time, whereas one instance of Hamas - an extremist terrorist organisation - doing something heinous is considered to be representative of all Palestinians.
"Hamas became stronger and used the auspices of peace that Israelis so longed for as cover for its training, and hundreds of Israelis have paid with their lives for this massive omission."
(even if you a) regard all of it as occupied and b) regard that occupation as illegal, rather than precisely the transitional administration agreed in the Oslo Accords pending a final peace deal, which has endured for three decades because the PLO ultimately rejected that peace deal).
How many troops did Israel have "occupying" Gaza? The reason that Israel is talking about moving troops into Gaza is because of the Hamas attacks and because Israel don't currently have any in there. Some "occupation". Israel ended its occupation of Gaza in 2005 - and was helping Gaza develop and building up a new Port of Gaza too until Hamas took over in 2007 which led to the blockade which is entirely legitimate.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/66858465
The point being made is that in a Pallywood Production you may see an IDF soldier shooting, and a child dying, but if you were able to zoom out you may see adult Palestinian gunmen behind the children using them as human shields.
I’m reading Christopher Hibbert’s brilliant biography of Mussolini at the moment. It is superb. Full of human detaiks yet devoid of footnotes (all the sources are cited at the end). It reads like a fine novel
One of those details: Mussolini was really pleased that he reforested the Apennines because he ultimately thought it would make Italy colder and snowier, and this, in turn, would make the Italians less “likeable”, and harder and more ruthless in the admired German style
Do you think British soldiers to Iraqis/Afghanis dying scaled at 1:1 either?
Scale is not a factor in war. Proportionality is, but proportionality doesn't mean scale, it means proportional to your military objective - and your objective is never to have your own soldiers dying.
We started the campaign with a massive bombardment first. "Shock and awe" it was called.
Try and stick with real facts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8KimNtB9HI
I know. Controversial take