NYT blog - Temporary Speaker Patrick McHenry says Jordan won 200 votes; Jeffries 212. Kevin McCarthy received 6 votes, Steve Scalise received 7 votes, and 5 others received a total of 7 votes. Jim Jordan has fallen short of winning the gavel this round.
Hundreds killed in Gaza hospital strike - reports We are seeing unconfirmed reports from Hamas that Israeli warplanes have struck the Baptist Hospital in central Gaza.
A health spokesman is quoted estimating that hundreds of people were killed.
More on this story as we get it.
Horrific if confirmed and a war crime.
I hope that's not true. It would be impossible to justify even if you're passionately pro Israel.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Israel of course murdered Palestinian women, children and babies over several decades.
Not deliberately but war is war, especially if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Israel of course murdered Palestinian women, children and babies over several decades.
Not deliberately but war is war, especially if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas
So they accidentally dump ordnance on Gaza?
They gave warning for Gazans to evacuate Gaza several days ago, they will now obliterate it and hope to obliterate Hamas too
NYT blog - Temporary Speaker Patrick McHenry says Jordan won 200 votes; Jeffries 212. Kevin McCarthy received 6 votes, Steve Scalise received 7 votes, and 5 others received a total of 7 votes. Jim Jordan has fallen short of winning the gavel this round.
Shame they don't elect the Speaker on a plurality of votes.
Coked up twat waves a picture of a kid who died of cancer, straight away no messing, charged, loses job, wall to wall coverage by the media....
Al-Qaeda, al-Shabab, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in Iraq, jihadist fighters in Chechnya, Hizb al-Tahrir and Islamic State have all adopted versions of the flag.
They wait until after the demo. The camera footage of those taking part is used to charge with various offences. The masking up usually doesn’t help - the twats generally have distinctive jewellery, tats and clothing.
Instead of getting the riot they hope for, they get arrested in the attic room of their mums house.
This has been done for many, many such demos by wannabe scum of a number of different varieties.
Hundreds killed in Gaza hospital strike - reports We are seeing unconfirmed reports from Hamas that Israeli warplanes have struck the Baptist Hospital in central Gaza.
A health spokesman is quoted estimating that hundreds of people were killed.
More on this story as we get it.
Horrific if confirmed and a war crime.
I hope that's not true. It would be impossible to justify even if you're passionately pro Israel.
It is surely a mistake, if it happened
So far the people outraged about it are all pro-Palestinian or rabid anti-Semites
However I am seeing some initial sheepish remarks from pro-Israel people, which suggests it might indeed be true. That would be a catastrophe for Israeli PR - as well as a human tragedy, of course
What it will do to their war plans, who knows. I am filled with foreboding
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Well it is not good no but Israel is fighting for its own survival and to avenge the worst terrorist attack against it in his history and Israelis certainly won't care what left leaning PB bloggers think about it
Coked up twat waves a picture of a kid who died of cancer, straight away no messing, charged, loses job, wall to wall coverage by the media....
Al-Qaeda, al-Shabab, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in Iraq, jihadist fighters in Chechnya, Hizb al-Tahrir and Islamic State have all adopted versions of the flag.
They wait until after the demo. The camera footage of those taking part is used to charge with various offences. The masking up usually doesn’t help - the twats generally have distinctive jewellery, tats and clothing.
Instead of getting the riot they hope for, they get arrested in the attic room of their mums house.
This has been done for many, many such demos by wannabe scum of a number of different varieties.
Except...
Pro-Palestine protesters filmed waving what appears to be a flag used by jihadist groups at a march in central London did not commit an offence, police have said.
Hundreds killed in Gaza hospital strike - reports We are seeing unconfirmed reports from Hamas that Israeli warplanes have struck the Baptist Hospital in central Gaza.
A health spokesman is quoted estimating that hundreds of people were killed.
More on this story as we get it.
Horrific if confirmed and a war crime.
I hope that's not true. It would be impossible to justify even if you're passionately pro Israel.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Israel of course murdered Palestinian women, children and babies over several decades.
Not deliberately but war is war, especially if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas
So they accidentally dump ordnance on Gaza?
They gave warning for Gazans to evacuate Gaza several days ago, they will now obliterate it and hope to obliterate Hamas too
How can you evacuate hospitals , the logistics when there’s so much devastation and where are you supposed to take them . And what about the people in intensive care .
Coked up twat waves a picture of a kid who died of cancer, straight away no messing, charged, loses job, wall to wall coverage by the media....
Al-Qaeda, al-Shabab, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in Iraq, jihadist fighters in Chechnya, Hizb al-Tahrir and Islamic State have all adopted versions of the flag.
They wait until after the demo. The camera footage of those taking part is used to charge with various offences. The masking up usually doesn’t help - the twats generally have distinctive jewellery, tats and clothing.
Instead of getting the riot they hope for, they get arrested in the attic room of their mums house.
This has been done for many, many such demos by wannabe scum of a number of different varieties.
Except...
Pro-Palestine protesters filmed waving what appears to be a flag used by jihadist groups at a march in central London did not commit an offence, police have said.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
The Times is reporting it now. Awfully, it might be true
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Well it is not good no but Israel is fighting for its own survival and to avenge the worst terrorist attack against it in his history and Israelis certainly won't care what left leaning PB bloggers think about it
It's also short-sighted. Attacks like this create the next generation of radicals and prospective martyrs who will begin the cycle of violence again.
I'm not disputing the justification merely citing the consequences.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
There’ll be plenty to label any who dare dissent will be labelled anti semites 👍
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Well it is not good no but Israel is fighting for its own survival and to avenge the worst terrorist attack against it in his history and Israelis certainly won't care what left leaning PB bloggers think about it
I'm sure they won't but they will also lose broad support across the West.
Personally I hope this is a despicable 'false flag' operation by Hamas or Iran but we need confirmation.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
The Times is reporting it now. Awfully, it might be true
Spare a thought for Joe Biden who has to wade into this one tomorrow. If confirmed it is just horrific loss of life, and yes this is going to have consequences for how this plays out.
Hundreds killed in Gaza hospital strike - reports We are seeing unconfirmed reports from Hamas that Israeli warplanes have struck the Baptist Hospital in central Gaza.
A health spokesman is quoted estimating that hundreds of people were killed.
More on this story as we get it.
Horrific if confirmed and a war crime.
I hope that's not true. It would be impossible to justify even if you're passionately pro Israel.
Being victim of a massacre and subject of constant racist, genocidal aggression would not mean they cannot be condemned for committing war crimes of course. They have a near impossible line to walk in terms of achieving something which their own people will demand and minimising civilian deaths to sustain international support, and I expect intent will get rolled out a lot in the coming days.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Lost what? This isn't an internet argument, it's not a popularity contest. What are Israel's goals and does this act further them or negate them?
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Israel of course murdered Palestinian women, children and babies over several decades.
Not deliberately but war is war, especially if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas
So they accidentally dump ordnance on Gaza?
They gave warning for Gazans to evacuate Gaza several days ago, they will now obliterate it and hope to obliterate Hamas too
Everything feels a bid 1913 at the moment. I fear a major conflict is coming.
If you fancy feeding your anxieties, THIS feels like a really really bad idea
R A W S A L E R T S @rawsalerts. Oct 16 🚨#BREAKING: The US Military is preparing to send roughly around 2000 troops for potential deployment to support Israel against Gaza.
That's how America's involvement in Vietnam began. "Advisors", "trainers2, "non combatants". Except this seems potentially a whole lot nastier than Vietnam, already
..#UPDATE: According to US defense officials, the troops are assigned missions such as advising and providing medical support, and they are not intended to serve in a combat role..
The comparison with Vietnam is just silly.
Is it?
"September 1950 — Truman sends the Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) Indochina to Vietnam to assist the French. The President claimed they were not sent as combat troops, but to supervise the use of $10 million worth of U.S. military equipment to support the French in their effort to fight the Viet Minh forces.
Following the outbreak of the Korean War, Truman announces "acceleration in the furnishing of military assistance to the forces of France and the Associated States in Indochina...". and sends 123 non-combat troops to help with supplies to fight against the communist Viet Minh."
Everything feels a bid 1913 at the moment. I fear a major conflict is coming.
If you fancy feeding your anxieties, THIS feels like a really really bad idea
R A W S A L E R T S @rawsalerts. Oct 16 🚨#BREAKING: The US Military is preparing to send roughly around 2000 troops for potential deployment to support Israel against Gaza.
That's how America's involvement in Vietnam began. "Advisors", "trainers2, "non combatants". Except this seems potentially a whole lot nastier than Vietnam, already
..#UPDATE: According to US defense officials, the troops are assigned missions such as advising and providing medical support, and they are not intended to serve in a combat role..
The comparison with Vietnam is just silly.
Is it?
"September 1950 — Truman sends the Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) Indochina to Vietnam to assist the French. The President claimed they were not sent as combat troops, but to supervise the use of $10 million worth of U.S. military equipment to support the French in their effort to fight the Viet Minh forces.
Following the outbreak of the Korean War, Truman announces "acceleration in the furnishing of military assistance to the forces of France and the Associated States in Indochina...". and sends 123 non-combat troops to help with supplies to fight against the communist Viet Minh."
Yes, it's stupid. Israel will do what it will, with or without the US.
The French effort to reclaim their former colony after WWII would have been otherwise stillborn without US finance and military aid.
I disagree. Israel will do what it will, of course
But what happens if Israel's will cannot be enforced? What happens if Israel unexpectedly LOSES in Gaza, and gets pushed back, as Russia did in its invasion of Ukraine? What happens if a second and third front open in the north and the West Bank, and Israel seems imperilled?
Suddenly the pressure to use those American troops, who are right there and waiting for combat, will be intense
Then we are heading for WW3 territory
That's why the carrier groups are being sent.
The idea that a couple of thousand non combatant soldiers, minus the medics, will make a significant difference is nonsense.
It's quite possible that some will be used to police the crossing with Egypt in order to facilitate the movement of aid supplies into southern Gaza (and the evacuation of dual nationals). Israel is blocking its opening, as they don't trust Egypt to prevent weapons being smuggled in.
Maybe you don't understand the process of escalation
Let's say these US troops, as you actually suggest, disembark in Gaza to help with the "policing". Now they are a big fat juicy target for anyone that hates America, and they are right there, in Gaza
Maybe some bombers get through and kill 900 of them. With 900 American soldiers dead, America is bound to respond. It will reinforce these troops with many more troops, and go after the attacker. That could be Iran. Now you have maybe 10,000 American troops in Gaza and a direct confrontaiton with Iran
And thus it unfurls, onwards, ever onwards
Re-opening the Egyptian crossing for aid, if that can be done with US assistance, would be de-escalatory. And god knows that's needed right now.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Coked up twat waves a picture of a kid who died of cancer, straight away no messing, charged, loses job, wall to wall coverage by the media....
Al-Qaeda, al-Shabab, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in Iraq, jihadist fighters in Chechnya, Hizb al-Tahrir and Islamic State have all adopted versions of the flag.
They wait until after the demo. The camera footage of those taking part is used to charge with various offences. The masking up usually doesn’t help - the twats generally have distinctive jewellery, tats and clothing.
Instead of getting the riot they hope for, they get arrested in the attic room of their mums house.
This has been done for many, many such demos by wannabe scum of a number of different varieties.
Except...
Pro-Palestine protesters filmed waving what appears to be a flag used by jihadist groups at a march in central London did not commit an offence, police have said.
Disgraceful
Well, maybe it is disgraceful - but disgraceful actions shouldn't necessarily be criminal offences.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
The Times is reporting it now. Awfully, it might be true
Spare a thought for Joe Biden who has to wade into this one tomorrow.
I remember a very old Daily Show segment on condemning criticism of Israel, in America, which was contrasted with a lot more criticism of Israeli government policy...in Israel, in particular the Knesset.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Well it is not good no but Israel is fighting for its own survival and to avenge the worst terrorist attack against it in his history and Israelis certainly won't care what left leaning PB bloggers think about it
True but they, and certainly their allies, will care what the rest of the world thinks. At the moment Israel has a lot of goodwill globally after the horrors of the Hamas incursion.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Lost what? This isn't an internet argument, it's not a popularity contest. What are Israel's goals and does this act further them or negate them?
They'll have lost support across the West, and they do need that.
I'm hoping it's not true. I wouldn't discount Hamas targeting the hospital to implicate the Israelis.
Coked up twat waves a picture of a kid who died of cancer, straight away no messing, charged, loses job, wall to wall coverage by the media....
Al-Qaeda, al-Shabab, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in Iraq, jihadist fighters in Chechnya, Hizb al-Tahrir and Islamic State have all adopted versions of the flag.
They wait until after the demo. The camera footage of those taking part is used to charge with various offences. The masking up usually doesn’t help - the twats generally have distinctive jewellery, tats and clothing.
Instead of getting the riot they hope for, they get arrested in the attic room of their mums house.
This has been done for many, many such demos by wannabe scum of a number of different varieties.
Except...
Pro-Palestine protesters filmed waving what appears to be a flag used by jihadist groups at a march in central London did not commit an offence, police have said.
Disgraceful
Well, maybe it is disgraceful - but disgraceful actions shouldn't necessarily be criminal offences.
Promoting terrorists is a criminal offence in the UK
NYT blog - Temporary Speaker Patrick McHenry says Jordan won 200 votes; Jeffries 212. Kevin McCarthy received 6 votes, Steve Scalise received 7 votes, and 5 others received a total of 7 votes. Jim Jordan has fallen short of winning the gavel this round.
So the GOP PermaCircus continues….
They're 95% election deniers and extremists, you'd think they could agree on someone when they have virtually no policy differences, but 5-10 don't want to pass any legislation at all, and if they go for someone who just wants to posture endlessly then they lose a different 10.
Coked up twat waves a picture of a kid who died of cancer, straight away no messing, charged, loses job, wall to wall coverage by the media....
Al-Qaeda, al-Shabab, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in Iraq, jihadist fighters in Chechnya, Hizb al-Tahrir and Islamic State have all adopted versions of the flag.
They wait until after the demo. The camera footage of those taking part is used to charge with various offences. The masking up usually doesn’t help - the twats generally have distinctive jewellery, tats and clothing.
Instead of getting the riot they hope for, they get arrested in the attic room of their mums house.
This has been done for many, many such demos by wannabe scum of a number of different varieties.
Except...
Pro-Palestine protesters filmed waving what appears to be a flag used by jihadist groups at a march in central London did not commit an offence, police have said.
Disgraceful
Well, maybe it is disgraceful - but disgraceful actions shouldn't necessarily be criminal offences.
Promoting terrorists is a criminal offence in the UK
The Met seems happy to pick and choose what laws it applies.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Well it is not good no but Israel is fighting for its own survival and to avenge the worst terrorist attack against it in his history and Israelis certainly won't care what left leaning PB bloggers think about it
True but they, and certainly their allies, will care what the rest of the world thinks. At the moment Israel has a lot of goodwill globally after the horrors of the Hamas incursion.
Like the US post 911 that can go very quickly.
Post 9/11 the US didn't care what the rest of the world thought and eventually killed Bin Laden and has had no further big jihadi terrorist attacks on US soil.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
True but that is probably what Hamas intended, to provoke Israel into a revenge so ghastly as to shift world opinion and sympathy away from Israel and towards the Palestinians. If so, the Israeli air force may have blundered into that trap.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Lost what? This isn't an internet argument, it's not a popularity contest. What are Israel's goals and does this act further them or negate them?
They'll have lost support across the West, and they do need that.
I'm hoping it's not true. I wouldn't discount Hamas targeting the hospital to implicate the Israelis.
IF we are to believe the images (these days, can we be sure?) it certainly looks like an air strike - and Hamas has no air force. So it was Israel. And it sure looks like an awful lot of bodies, dozens if not hundreds
Could be a pivotal moment. Hideous. I need the gym, then the gin
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
The Times is reporting it now. Awfully, it might be true
That’s dreadful. There are red lines surely no government should cross . No one regardless of what side they’re on can condone this air strike .
NYT blog - Temporary Speaker Patrick McHenry says Jordan won 200 votes; Jeffries 212. Kevin McCarthy received 6 votes, Steve Scalise received 7 votes, and 5 others received a total of 7 votes. Jim Jordan has fallen short of winning the gavel this round.
The question is, will Jordan pick up support in the next round, or not? If he loses support, then it's hard to see how he becomes speaker.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
True but that is probably what Hamas intended, to provoke Israel into a revenge so ghastly as to shift world opinion and sympathy away from Israel and towards the Palestinians. If so, the Israeli air force may have blundered into that trap.
The only reaction outside Israel Netanyahu will care about is the US reaction but Middle America will still be with Israel against Hamas.
NYT blog - Temporary Speaker Patrick McHenry says Jordan won 200 votes; Jeffries 212. Kevin McCarthy received 6 votes, Steve Scalise received 7 votes, and 5 others received a total of 7 votes. Jim Jordan has fallen short of winning the gavel this round.
The question is, will Jordan pick up support in the next round, or not? If he loses support, then it's hard to see how he becomes speaker.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
NYT blog - Temporary Speaker Patrick McHenry says Jordan won 200 votes; Jeffries 212. Kevin McCarthy received 6 votes, Steve Scalise received 7 votes, and 5 others received a total of 7 votes. Jim Jordan has fallen short of winning the gavel this round.
The question is, will Jordan pick up support in the next round, or not? If he loses support, then it's hard to see how he becomes speaker.
NYT blog - Temporary Speaker Patrick McHenry says Jordan won 200 votes; Jeffries 212. Kevin McCarthy received 6 votes, Steve Scalise received 7 votes, and 5 others received a total of 7 votes. Jim Jordan has fallen short of winning the gavel this round.
The question is, will Jordan pick up support in the next round, or not? If he loses support, then it's hard to see how he becomes speaker.
I understand that some of Jordan’s pledged support only said they would definitely support him on the first vote, but wouldn’t commit to future rounds if he fell short. If that’s any way true, it’s hard to see how he makes it.
It is starting to feel like something nuts might happen and we might need a Dem/GOP deal to resolve. Not sure what is really in it for the Dems though.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Well it is not good no but Israel is fighting for its own survival and to avenge the worst terrorist attack against it in his history and Israelis certainly won't care what left leaning PB bloggers think about it
It's also short-sighted. Attacks like this create the next generation of radicals and prospective martyrs who will begin the cycle of violence again.
I'm not disputing the justification merely citing the consequences.
There is a excellent practical reason that a very famous man from the Nazareth area said all that stuff about loving your enemies 2000 years ago.
If it was Hamas rocket, given Israel have drones, satellites, aircraft (including Western Spy planes) focused on Gaza, I would hope that there will be footage to show this. Otherwise, it will become epicentre of disputed case used to drive extremism.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Assad of course gassed a hospital, he had some western condemnation, rode it out, is still in power and has largely beaten back Syrian rebels
Republican voters are not really grounded in any morality so not sure that’s a good example . And you’re now using Assad as a comparison . Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel .
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
True but that is probably what Hamas intended, to provoke Israel into a revenge so ghastly as to shift world opinion and sympathy away from Israel and towards the Palestinians. If so, the Israeli air force may have blundered into that trap.
The only reaction outside Israel Netanyahu will care about is the US reaction but Middle America will still be with Israel against Hamas.
My guess is Netanyahu will be furious with his air force for undermining Israeli-American diplomacy just as President Biden is due to land tomorrow.
Coked up twat waves a picture of a kid who died of cancer, straight away no messing, charged, loses job, wall to wall coverage by the media....
Al-Qaeda, al-Shabab, Boko Haram, Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in Iraq, jihadist fighters in Chechnya, Hizb al-Tahrir and Islamic State have all adopted versions of the flag.
They wait until after the demo. The camera footage of those taking part is used to charge with various offences. The masking up usually doesn’t help - the twats generally have distinctive jewellery, tats and clothing.
Instead of getting the riot they hope for, they get arrested in the attic room of their mums house.
This has been done for many, many such demos by wannabe scum of a number of different varieties.
Except...
Pro-Palestine protesters filmed waving what appears to be a flag used by jihadist groups at a march in central London did not commit an offence, police have said.
They have form for changing their minds. Remember, the decision to charge will not be by the police themselves.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Lost what? This isn't an internet argument, it's not a popularity contest. What are Israel's goals and does this act further them or negate them?
They'll have lost support across the West, and they do need that.
Fair point, but I don't think it's a war goal. I assume that Netanyahu is a rational actor so the IDF actions must serve his goals and what he sees as the goals of Israel. Firing at populated areas serves those goals, which I assume are:
I) Preserve his government support amongst the Israeli people and the Knesset Ii) Inflict sufficient violence against Hamas to prevent a rapid repeat of the initial attack Iii) Retain allies amongst the world
The hospital attack, although horrific, will not cause a Western ally to split with Israel. It retains popular and parliamentary approval in Israel. The only problem (from his POV) is that it won't be enough to deter Hamas.
Well if that is true it was a Hamas missile not the Israelis that hit the hospital anyway
It's certainly a plausible and credible theory but as we know the first casualty of any war is truth. At the moment, we don't know but what we do know is there has been enormous loss of life.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
NYT blog - Temporary Speaker Patrick McHenry says Jordan won 200 votes; Jeffries 212. Kevin McCarthy received 6 votes, Steve Scalise received 7 votes, and 5 others received a total of 7 votes. Jim Jordan has fallen short of winning the gavel this round.
The question is, will Jordan pick up support in the next round, or not? If he loses support, then it's hard to see how he becomes speaker.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
True but that is probably what Hamas intended, to provoke Israel into a revenge so ghastly as to shift world opinion and sympathy away from Israel and towards the Palestinians. If so, the Israeli air force may have blundered into that trap.
The only reaction outside Israel Netanyahu will care about is the US reaction but Middle America will still be with Israel against Hamas.
My guess is Netanyahu will be furious with his air force for undermining Israeli-American diplomacy just as President Biden is due to land tomorrow.
Firstly it may well have been a Hamas missile on latest reports not his airforce, secondly he sees Biden as weak and knows Biden cannot ignore Middle American and Jewish lobby support in the US for Israel
Just wait, it could be a rocket system misfire, it could be a stock of kit that went off due to whatever, it could be an Israeli strike on something, an Israeli misfire or it could be Israeli wrong targeting.
As a note the core explosion is reported at the ambulance parking area.
NYT live blog - Representative Mario Díaz-Balart, a Florida Republican who voted for Scalise, said his position had not changed, even after speaking with Jordan on the floor following the vote. “I will not be pressured or intimidated,” he told reporters, predicting Jordan would lose votes on the next ballot.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
You'll not find much support on here for Russian strikes of any sort let alone Russian strikes on hospitals.
If it was Hamas rocket, given Israel have drones, satellites, aircraft (including Western Spy planes) focused on Gaza, I would hope that there will be footage to show this. Otherwise, it will become epicentre of disputed case used to drive extremism.
As I said the other day, rushing to big up atrocity stories just gets you more atrocities in the cycle.
What happened here is that there was a big explosion - or several.
Targeting a hospital, even if the other side is using it as a military base, is unacceptable.
Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.
Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.
'Reasonable people' won't defeat Hamas is the brutal reality
If it was Hamas rocket, given Israel have drones, satellites, aircraft (including Western Spy planes) focused on Gaza, I would hope that there will be footage to show this. Otherwise, it will become epicentre of disputed case used to drive extremism.
As I said the other day, rushing to big up atrocity stories just gets you more atrocities in the cycle.
What happened here is that there was a big explosion - or several.
Targeting a hospital, even if the other side is using it as a military base, is unacceptable.
IF this is the footage... if, it sounds like a missile.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
As someone who has been arguing that Israel needs to be careful to avoid civilian casualties, I think it is also now worth saying, as Yokes and others have, that we need to wait and see what the actual cause was.
Would I be surpised if it was an intentional targetting of the hospital by Israel - yes, I actually think that is the least likely scenario.
Would I be surprised if it was an intentional act by Hamas - No. They don't care about civilian lives whether they are Israeli or Palestinian as long as they have propaganda value.
Do I think this is most likely a cock up by either Israel or Hamas - yes but of course I have no way of actually knowing that.
It is shit, whatever the cause but right at this moment it proves nothing about anything.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
As opposed to a UN Mandated peacekeeping force not doing anything when Hamas attached.
The US would of course veto any such action anyway
If it was Hamas rocket, given Israel have drones, satellites, aircraft (including Western Spy planes) focused on Gaza, I would hope that there will be footage to show this. Otherwise, it will become epicentre of disputed case used to drive extremism.
As I said the other day, rushing to big up atrocity stories just gets you more atrocities in the cycle.
What happened here is that there was a big explosion - or several.
Targeting a hospital, even if the other side is using it as a military base, is unacceptable.
IF this is the footage... if, it sounds like a missile.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Well it is not good no but Israel is fighting for its own survival and to avenge the worst terrorist attack against it in his history and Israelis certainly won't care what left leaning PB bloggers think about it
True but they, and certainly their allies, will care what the rest of the world thinks. At the moment Israel has a lot of goodwill globally after the horrors of the Hamas incursion.
Like the US post 911 that can go very quickly.
Post 9/11 the US didn't care what the rest of the world thought and eventually killed Bin Laden and has had no further big jihadi terrorist attacks on US soil.
So the ends justify the means….
America have still suffered numerous terror attacks from Islamists both on its own solid and abroad. Mission creep to Iraq destabilised the whole region.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
As someone who has been arguing that Israel needs to be careful to avoid civilian casualties, I think it is also now worth saying, as Yokes and others have, that we need to wait and see what the actual cause was.
Would I be surpised if it was an intentional targetting of the hospital by Israel - yes, I actually think that is the least likely scenario.
Would I be surprised if it was an intentional act by Hamas - No. They don't care about civilian lives whether they are Israeli or Palestinian as long as they have propaganda value.
Do I think this is most likely a cock up by either Israel or Hamas - yes but of course I have no way of actually knowing that.
It is shit, whatever the cause but right at this moment it proves nothing about anything.
Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.
"and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"
Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.
As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.
"and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"
Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.
As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
Israel not Hamas has the technology to prove who did it. If it wasn't them it'll be in their own interests to show that.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
None of those are going to happen, are they.
No of course not. I’m not quite sure tongue-in-cheek is the appropriate phrase right now, but particularly my second para was not intended as a serious practical proposition!
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
And that's a big issue for Israel: if they are seen as descending as far as Russia then it's a disaster for them. Some will have made up their minds already; there are plenty more who could become anti-Israel.
As it happens, I know someone who is *very* keen to excuse Russian attacks in Syria and Ukraine. It's all the victims' fault, apparently. And ours.
Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.
"and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"
Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.
As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
Israel not Hamas has the technology to prove who did it. If it wasn't them it'll be in their own interests to show that.
Technology, but not access. Say part of an Israeli bomb casing was found at the site: is that a slam-dunk piece of evidence, or something Hamas salted? etc, etc.
Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.
"and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"
Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.
As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
Hamas are evil and I wouldn’t put it passed them to target their own civilians . I’ve not made my mind up and will wait to see what proof gets released either way . I notice Justin Trudeau is already blaming Israel which could be very embarrassing if it wasn’t . If it was Israel then that would be very serious .
No idea of the veracity of these posts but there seems to be some evidence that it may have come from inside Gaza. Videos in the links
. First clear footage from the Al Ahli tragedy in Gaza, but what do you notice? this is a surface explosion, almost no soil is thrown up, so it's not an air bomb. Looks like a failed Hamas rocket that landed there, what a tragedy has Hamas brought to the people of Gaza! https://twitter.com/david_lisovtsev/status/1714337392520249522
Gaza hospital bombed. IDF was not operating in the area.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
And that's a big issue for Israel: if they are seen as descending as far as Russia then it's a disaster for them. Some will have made up their minds already; there are plenty more who could become anti-Israel.
As it happens, I know someone who is *very* keen to excuse Russian attacks in Syria and Ukraine. It's all the victims' fault, apparently. And ours.
As someone who has been arguing that Israel needs to be careful to avoid civilian casualties, I think it is also now worth saying, as Yokes and others have, that we need to wait and see what the actual cause was.
Would I be surpised if it was an intentional targetting of the hospital by Israel - yes, I actually think that is the least likely scenario.
Would I be surprised if it was an intentional act by Hamas - No. They don't care about civilian lives whether they are Israeli or Palestinian as long as they have propaganda value.
Do I think this is most likely a cock up by either Israel or Hamas - yes but of course I have no way of actually knowing that.
It is shit, whatever the cause but right at this moment it proves nothing about anything.
I think this is right, other than the likelihood of it being deliberate by Hamas. Whilst I have no doubt that the organisation would be capable of such an act, as Yokes has said all signs are that Hamas is trying to deescalate and, if shown to be a deliberate act by them, this would put huge pressure on many actors to entirely disown them. Which would be poor strategy from Hamas, to put it mildly.
Do I think they are that idiotic? Perhaps, but I’d be surprised.
Cock up seems by far the most likely scenario but, as others have said, Israel should have the means to bring the truth to light, should they so choose.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
Come off it HY, even you must be able to see that a strike on a hospital with potentially 500+ casualties is outrageous?
If Israel are proved to have done this they have just lost.
Well it is not good no but Israel is fighting for its own survival and to avenge the worst terrorist attack against it in his history and Israelis certainly won't care what left leaning PB bloggers think about it
True but they, and certainly their allies, will care what the rest of the world thinks. At the moment Israel has a lot of goodwill globally after the horrors of the Hamas incursion.
Like the US post 911 that can go very quickly.
Post 9/11 the US didn't care what the rest of the world thought and eventually killed Bin Laden and has had no further big jihadi terrorist attacks on US soil.
So the ends justify the means….
America have still suffered numerous terror attacks from Islamists both on its own solid and abroad. Mission creep to Iraq destabilised the whole region.
On US soil virtually none and sometimes yes ends do have to justify the means
Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.
"and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"
Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.
As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
Israel not Hamas has the technology to prove who did it. If it wasn't them it'll be in their own interests to show that.
Technology, but not access. Say part of an Israeli bomb casing was found at the site: is that a slam-dunk piece of evidence, or something Hamas salted? etc, etc.
Both sides will blame the other. Their home audiences will each believe their own side.
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
If we are going to invade nuclear armed countries, why not do Russia as well?
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
If we are going to invade nuclear armed countries, why not do Russia as well?
Just to reiterate, I wasn’t being entirely serious!
We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .
I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.
Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
True but that is probably what Hamas intended, to provoke Israel into a revenge so ghastly as to shift world opinion and sympathy away from Israel and towards the Palestinians. If so, the Israeli air force may have blundered into that trap.
The only reaction outside Israel Netanyahu will care about is the US reaction but Middle America will still be with Israel against Hamas.
My guess is Netanyahu will be furious with his air force for undermining Israeli-American diplomacy just as President Biden is due to land tomorrow.
Firstly it may well have been a Hamas missile on latest reports not his airforce, secondly he sees Biden as weak and knows Biden cannot ignore Middle American and Jewish lobby support in the US for Israel
Yes of course Israel could tell Biden where to get off but back in this world, the Americans do seem to have persuaded Netanyahu to postpone if not cancel the full-scale invasion. Take a step back.
Comments
If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .
They wait until after the demo. The camera footage of those taking part is used to charge with various offences. The masking up usually doesn’t help - the twats generally have distinctive jewellery, tats and clothing.
Instead of getting the riot they hope for, they get arrested in the attic room of their mums house.
This has been done for many, many such demos by wannabe scum of a number of different varieties.
So far the people outraged about it are all pro-Palestinian or rabid anti-Semites
However I am seeing some initial sheepish remarks from pro-Israel people, which suggests it might indeed be true. That would be a catastrophe for Israeli PR - as well as a human tragedy, of course
What it will do to their war plans, who knows. I am filled with foreboding
Pro-Palestine protesters filmed waving what appears to be a flag used by jihadist groups at a march in central London did not commit an offence, police have said.
I'm not disputing the justification merely citing the consequences.
How long can they maintain this position . Are we at the point where people support effectively starving civilians ?
Personally I hope this is a despicable 'false flag' operation by Hamas or Iran but we need confirmation.
And god knows that's needed right now.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4255413-most-americans-us-government-support-israel/.
Assad of course gassed a hospital, he had some western condemnation, rode it out, is still in power and has largely beaten back Syrian rebels
If it was a mistake. Even if there were ten gun batteries embedded in the children's ward this is one they should have left.
Like the US post 911 that can go very quickly.
I'm hoping it's not true. I wouldn't discount Hamas targeting the hospital to implicate the Israelis.
@HYUFD - call a spade a spade you f•cking halfwit!
Could be a pivotal moment. Hideous. I need the gym, then the gin
https://x.com/obornetweets/status/1714340327035641909?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
More than 500 people were k*lled in a strike on a hospital in the Gaza Strip.
Israeli media report that a Hamas rocket misfired and hit a hospital in Gaza, where there was a secret ammunition depot that detonated.
https://twitter.com/Heroiam_Slava/status/1714338101861007780
It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.
This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
It is starting to feel like something nuts might happen and we might need a Dem/GOP deal to resolve. Not sure what is really in it for the Dems though.
I) Preserve his government support amongst the Israeli people and the Knesset
Ii) Inflict sufficient violence against Hamas to prevent a rapid repeat of the initial attack
Iii) Retain allies amongst the world
The hospital attack, although horrific, will not cause a Western ally to split with Israel. It retains popular and parliamentary approval in Israel. The only problem (from his POV) is that it won't be enough to deter Hamas.
I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
As a note the core explosion is reported at the ambulance parking area.
What happened here is that there was a big explosion - or several.
Targeting a hospital, even if the other side is using it as a military base, is unacceptable.
https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1714337776873640216
"A senior Hamas official has told NBC News that Hamas is willing to release all civilian hostages in one hour if Israel stops its bombing of Gaza."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/oct/17/israel-hamas-war-live-gaza-city-update-news-today-joe-biden-visit-aid-plan-latest-updates?page=with:block-652ed2498f08269fdea76108#block-652ed2498f08269fdea76108
Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.
On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
Would I be surpised if it was an intentional targetting of the hospital by Israel - yes, I actually think that is the least likely scenario.
Would I be surprised if it was an intentional act by Hamas - No. They don't care about civilian lives whether they are Israeli or Palestinian as long as they have propaganda value.
Do I think this is most likely a cock up by either Israel or Hamas - yes but of course I have no way of actually knowing that.
It is shit, whatever the cause but right at this moment it proves nothing about anything.
The US would of course veto any such action anyway
America have still suffered numerous terror attacks from Islamists both on its own solid and abroad. Mission creep to Iraq destabilised the whole region.
Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.
As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
As it happens, I know someone who is *very* keen to excuse Russian attacks in Syria and Ukraine. It's all the victims' fault, apparently. And ours.
. First clear footage from the Al Ahli tragedy in Gaza, but what do you notice?
this is a surface explosion, almost no soil is thrown up, so it's not an air bomb.
Looks like a failed Hamas rocket that landed there, what a tragedy has Hamas brought to the people of Gaza!
https://twitter.com/david_lisovtsev/status/1714337392520249522
Gaza hospital bombed. IDF was not operating in the area.
It appears to have come from a failed Hamas rocket.
https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1714351611110154288
Do I think they are that idiotic? Perhaps, but I’d be surprised.
Cock up seems by far the most likely scenario but, as others have said, Israel should have the means to bring the truth to light, should they so choose.