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The Tories tighter than evens to retain Mid Bedfordshire – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    edited October 2023
    AlistairM said:

    No idea of the veracity of these posts but there seems to be some evidence that it may have come from inside Gaza. Videos in the links

    . First clear footage from the Al Ahli tragedy in Gaza, but what do you notice?
    this is a surface explosion, almost no soil is thrown up, so it's not an air bomb.
    Looks like a failed Hamas rocket that landed there, what a tragedy has Hamas brought to the people of Gaza!

    https://twitter.com/david_lisovtsev/status/1714337392520249522

    Gaza hospital bombed. IDF was not operating in the area.

    It appears to have come from a failed Hamas rocket.

    https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1714351611110154288

    That first one makes no sense "almost no soil is thrown up, so it's not an air bomb. Looks like a failed Hamas rocket that landed there"

    An air bomb would throw up soil but a rocket wouldn't?

    Edit: a failed Hamas rocket launch might make sense though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited October 2023

    Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.

    "and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"

    Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.

    As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
    Israel not Hamas has the technology to prove who did it. If it wasn't them it'll be in their own interests to show that.
    Technology, but not access. Say part of an Israeli bomb casing was found at the site: is that a slam-dunk piece of evidence, or something Hamas salted? etc, etc.
    I would be shocked if Israel don't have cameras, drones, planes, etc all focused on Gaza...if nothing to be prewarned about the constant incoming rockets that are still being sent by Hamas.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    BREAKING: Initial investigation by IDF shows explosion in hospital in Gaza was caused by a failed Hamas rocket launch

    https://x.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1714348101748559883?s=20
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,672

    Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.

    "and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"

    Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.

    As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
    Israel not Hamas has the technology to prove who did it. If it wasn't them it'll be in their own interests to show that.
    Technology, but not access. Say part of an Israeli bomb casing was found at the site: is that a slam-dunk piece of evidence, or something Hamas salted? etc, etc.
    I would be shocked if Israel don't have cameras, drones, planes, etc all focused on Gaza...if nothing to be prewarned about the constant incoming rockets that are still being sent by Hamas.
    Even in an area the size of Gaza, you cannot be looking everywhere at once.

    Still, it's a developing story, and there are conflicting accounts incoming.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    edited October 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    BREAKING: Initial investigation by IDF shows explosion in hospital in Gaza was caused by a failed Hamas rocket launch

    https://x.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1714348101748559883?s=20

    Take your pick. But if it's the first that's not going to excuse Israel.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    AlistairM said:

    No idea of the veracity of these posts but there seems to be some evidence that it may have come from inside Gaza. Videos in the links

    . First clear footage from the Al Ahli tragedy in Gaza, but what do you notice?
    this is a surface explosion, almost no soil is thrown up, so it's not an air bomb.
    Looks like a failed Hamas rocket that landed there, what a tragedy has Hamas brought to the people of Gaza!

    https://twitter.com/david_lisovtsev/status/1714337392520249522

    Gaza hospital bombed. IDF was not operating in the area.

    It appears to have come from a failed Hamas rocket.

    https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1714351611110154288

    Does any of this mean anything? Is it a surface explosion and how do you tell? What does that indicate and why does it point to Israeli or Palestinian weapons? Why is everybody quotetweeting things without thought?

    If I ever fire a weapon at somebody, I will get a bot to tweet a hundred times that Rishi Sunak did it with a unicorn horn. And everybody on PB will breathlessly repost it here. And the press will go "unicorn horn killer at large!!!"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667

    Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.

    "and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"

    Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.

    As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
    Israel not Hamas has the technology to prove who did it. If it wasn't them it'll be in their own interests to show that.
    Technology, but not access. Say part of an Israeli bomb casing was found at the site: is that a slam-dunk piece of evidence, or something Hamas salted? etc, etc.
    I would be shocked if Israel don't have cameras, drones, planes, etc all focused on Gaza...if nothing to be prewarned about the constant incoming rockets that are still being sent by Hamas.
    Even in an area the size of Gaza, you cannot be looking everywhere at once.

    Still, it's a developing story, and there are conflicting accounts incoming.
    The fog of war.
  • Apparently 30% of Hamas rockets fail....clearly those EU funded water pipes are of piss poor quality.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    .
    viewcode said:

    Does any of this mean anything? Is it a surface explosion and how do you tell? What does that indicate and why does it point to Israeli or Palestinian weapons? Why is everybody quotetweeting things without thought?

    Generally speaking a bomb dropped from a plane will penetrate the ground and then explode, a bomb in say a truck will explode at ground level. People who know a lot more than me could probably eyeball the difference in a video.


  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Before it was accidentally hit by a malfunctioning Hamas rocket that unluckily hit a hidden ammo dump that they knew was there despite never having visited the site?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    viewcode said:

    AlistairM said:

    No idea of the veracity of these posts but there seems to be some evidence that it may have come from inside Gaza. Videos in the links

    . First clear footage from the Al Ahli tragedy in Gaza, but what do you notice?
    this is a surface explosion, almost no soil is thrown up, so it's not an air bomb.
    Looks like a failed Hamas rocket that landed there, what a tragedy has Hamas brought to the people of Gaza!

    https://twitter.com/david_lisovtsev/status/1714337392520249522

    Gaza hospital bombed. IDF was not operating in the area.

    It appears to have come from a failed Hamas rocket.

    https://twitter.com/TheMossadIL/status/1714351611110154288

    Does any of this mean anything? Is it a surface explosion and how do you tell? What does that indicate and why does it point to Israeli or Palestinian weapons? Why is everybody quotetweeting things without thought?

    If I ever fire a weapon at somebody, I will get a bot to tweet a hundred times that Rishi Sunak did it with a unicorn horn. And everybody on PB will breathlessly repost it here. And the press will go "unicorn horn killer at large!!!"
    Don't be silly.

    Nobody will ever believe Sunak is capable of lifting a unicorn horn.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Meanwhile England are keeping Italy under pressure in the early minutes of tonight’s Euro 24 qualifier
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Spectator index saying same thing.

    Others indicating Hamas misfire
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814

    nico679 said:

    Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.

    "and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"

    Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.

    As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
    Hamas are evil and I wouldn’t put it passed them to target their own civilians . I’ve not made my mind up and will wait to see what proof gets released either way . I notice Justin Trudeau is already blaming Israel which could be very embarrassing if it wasn’t . If it was Israel then that would be very serious .
    Shit. (Not your comment, just a general excalamation). If I, as a keyboard warrior/pacifist* sat in the wilds of Lincolnshire, can see we need to wait until we have some solid facts then what the feckety feck is a supposedly intelligent and well informed world leader doing jumping to conclusions this early in the process.

    Trudeau is a fecking idiot.

    *delete as preferred
    Never been a fan of Trudeau but his skills in diplomacy have been pretty non existent of late.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,348
    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .

    I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.

    Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
    No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .

    If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .

    Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.

    It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.

    This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
    That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".

    I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
    One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.

    Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.

    On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
    If we are going to invade nuclear armed countries, why not do Russia as well?
    Just to reiterate, I wasn’t being entirely serious!
    I am

    Global Thermonuclear War Now!
  • Oooops!

    1-0 to Italy :grimace:
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 694
    Italy take lead.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited October 2023
    Oh dear, Italy 1-0

    Should make for a better game
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,059
    IanB2 said:

    Meanwhile England are keeping Italy under pressure in the early minutes of tonight’s Euro 24 qualifier

    Thanks for that.. :angry:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    It's really sad Sri Lanka lost yesterday.

    If they'd won, Australia would right now be the only winless team at the World Cup.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited October 2023

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .

    I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.

    Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
    No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .

    If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .

    Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.

    It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.

    This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
    That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".

    I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
    One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.

    Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.

    On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
    If we are going to invade nuclear armed countries, why not do Russia as well?
    Just to reiterate, I wasn’t being entirely serious!
    I am

    Global Thermonuclear War Now!
    Are you sure you wouldn't like to play another game.....
  • maxh said:

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .

    I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.

    Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
    No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .

    If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .

    Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.

    It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.

    This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
    That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".

    I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
    One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.

    Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.

    On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
    If we are going to invade nuclear armed countries, why not do Russia as well?
    Just to reiterate, I wasn’t being entirely serious!
    I am

    Global Thermonuclear War Now!
    Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of Bomb The Hospital Chess?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    glw said:

    .

    viewcode said:

    Does any of this mean anything? Is it a surface explosion and how do you tell? What does that indicate and why does it point to Israeli or Palestinian weapons? Why is everybody quotetweeting things without thought?

    Generally speaking a bomb dropped from a plane will penetrate the ground and then explode, a bomb in say a truck will explode at ground level. People who know a lot more than me could probably eyeball the difference in a video.


    Unless they are bunker busters, a bomb will detonate on impact. They're bombs. The damage will extend further downwards than a static bomb because the missile is travelling. But in both cases the damage will extend down and out. I think the critical factor is the size of the bomb and the speed of the missile.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    IanB2 said:

    Oh dear, Italy 1-0

    Are you @DavidL in disguise?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Before it was accidentally hit by a malfunctioning Hamas rocket that unluckily hit a hidden ammo dump that they knew was there despite never having visited the site?
    Only the dimwitted or desperate would cling to the hidden munitions cache under the hospital car park story.

    Having said that, the 'decapitated babies' Israeli psy-op was a roaring success among the dimwitted and desperate despite the lack of any corroborating evidence so maybe this will work too.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Spectator index saying same thing.

    Others indicating Hamas misfire
    Speccy index does have 2.6 million followers so you think it'd check sources.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited October 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Spectator index saying same thing.

    Others indicating Hamas misfire
    Speccy index does have 2.6 million followers so you think it'd check sources.

    It original claim was made on Al-Jazeera, they are just repeating the claim.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    edited October 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Spectator index saying same thing.

    Others indicating Hamas misfire
    Speccy index does have 2.6 million followers so you think it'd check sources.

    The IDF seem to be playing their cards pretty close to their chest at this moment, which suggests to me they think it might be their fault even if it wasn't deliberate.

    And this is exactly the sort of thing that was always going to happen if they attacked Gaza in strength, which, of course, is why Hamas attacked them to provoke it in the first place.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Spectator index saying same thing.

    Others indicating Hamas misfire
    Speccy index does have 2.6 million followers so you think it'd check sources.

    Spectator writers are never jittery conspiracy mongers are they?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Spectator index saying same thing.

    Others indicating Hamas misfire
    Speccy index does have 2.6 million followers so you think it'd check sources.

    Spectator writers are never jittery conspiracy mongers are they?
    Only when taking a knap.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    Which TV channel is the football on?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,080
    edited October 2023
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Israeli spokesman is stating that the IDF had given sufficient warning concerning the Al Ahli Baptist Hospital to enable its evacuation. #IsraelPalestineWar

    @Pkurzin (Source, X)

    Spectator index saying same thing.

    Others indicating Hamas misfire
    Speccy index does have 2.6 million followers so you think it'd check sources.

    Spectator writers are never jittery conspiracy mongers are they?
    Its nothing to do with The Spectator...The Spectator Index is the name of a popular Twitter account and website run by Abdul-Latif Halimi, a doctor from Melbourne, Australia.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Which TV channel is the football on?

    CH4.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    edited October 2023
    So to summarise.

    * The IDF gave the hospital warnings to evacuate
    * Before the IDF could bomb it, Hamas bombed it first by accident
    * The Hamas bomb set off a secret ammo dump in the hospital

    Some questions
    * Why did the IDF warn the hospital to evacuate? Before what exactly?
    * Why do people think there was an ammo site there? Presumably to account for the discrepancy between the putative Hamas missile and the explosion. But nobody knows the size of the Hamas missile.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,201
    BBC reckons the size of the explosion means likely to have been air strike
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202

    Whoever bombed the hospital, and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it, are guilty of a war crime. Telling Gazans to move south, and then bombing the south, isn’t a good look either. Israel need not to lose the moral high ground, or they will lose the support of reasonable people, which obviously excludes the GOP, HYUFD, etc.

    "and Israel are the ones who are going to have to prove they didn’t do it,"

    Why? Hamas are the ones who have been smuggling weapons and rockets into Gaza rather than food and water its citizens require. Why is the onus on Israel to prove its innocence? Surely Hamas also have the same responsibility to prove innocence.

    As we saw with the safe route blast; people who dislike Israel have made up their minds that they bombed it when the evidence is far from clear. Israel, not Hamas, automatically gets the blame.
    Israel issued a evacuation order to hospitals: https://www.who.int/news/item/14-10-2023-evacuation-orders-by-israel-to-hospitals-in-northern-gaza-are-a-death-sentence-for-the-sick-and-injured

    That's from three days ago.

    Doesn't mean it was Israel - as Mr Tyndall has pointed out they usually give a shit about civilian casualties - but it is strongly suggestive that they knew that Hamas was using hospitals to hide things they didn't want hit.
  • NEW THREAD

  • New Thread

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Pulpstar said:

    BBC reckons the size of the explosion means likely to have been air strike

    It is also quite possible there really was an ammunition dump at the hospital, which would be entirely consistent with Hamas' modus operandi going back decades.

    But that isn't going to help the Israelis much in PR terms if it turns out they've deliberately or even accidentally blown up a hospital.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Penalty!
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,749
    Had ITV news on while waiting for the footy. I only have “telly” on when there’s live sport so it’s always jarring when I catch it.

    ITV reported “we are just learning from social media that hundreds are dead at a hospital in Gaza after it was hit by Israeli air strikes”.

    And itv won’t be alone. That is now the truth, no matter what the facts of the matter of this horrific incident eventually turn out to be.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,799

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    maxh said:

    nico679 said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico679 said:

    We still haven’t had this report confirmed but if it was an air strike by the Israelis it’s unforgivable to target a hospital .

    I suspect there was Hamas there too, you can't see the full picture until all evidence emerged.

    Hamas of course murdered Israeli women, children and babies deliberately targeted so if the Israelis want to wipe out Hamas they won't give much quarter
    No ones disputing that Hamas are evil and they couldn’t care less how many civilians die in Gaza and would if they could murder as many Jews as possible .

    If Israel have hit a hospital and killed anything like that report then public opinion will soon turn against them in the west .

    Yeah I have been unsure about my views so far, but if this turns out to be true, any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone.

    It doesn’t matter if Hamas are there. It doesn’t matter if Israel have warned Gazans to move. It is so blindingly obvious that hospital patients cannot move, whether to respond to an Israeli warning or to get away from Hamas.

    This is simply unconscionable. Is it fair to say it is worse than anything Hamas have done? Not sure.
    That's fair enough: although the other side of the equation is that "any sympathy I have for the Israeli state is gone" should not become "I don't care if the Israeli state exists".

    I'd also make another point. Russia has made a habit - in fact, a policy - of hitting hospitals in Syria and Ukraine. I hope everyone who would rightly condemn an Israeli strike on this hospital (if that is what happened) would not dream of excuse the many, many such Russian attacks.
    One your first point, completely agree. If this turns out to be true, and clearly we don’t know that yet, it is the government of Israel that deserves to be obliterated, not the state.

    Though, if confirmed, I think it would be legitimate for a UN mandated peacekeeping force to invade Israel to subdue the IDF and enforce the Oslo accords.

    On your second point, I can’t speak for anyone else but my condemnation of Russian actions has been just as vociferous as these two posts.
    If we are going to invade nuclear armed countries, why not do Russia as well?
    Just to reiterate, I wasn’t being entirely serious!
    I am

    Global Thermonuclear War Now!
    Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of Bomb The Hospital Chess?
    My favourite bit of dialogue from that :

    Jennifer: Well, what kind of an asshole grows up in Seattle and doesn't even know how to swim?
    David: I never got around to it, okay? I always thought there was gonna be plenty of time!
This discussion has been closed.