Inspired partly by this mornings discussions I just called in at Lidl after being thrown out of the Council gym (closed at 5 - who would want to use the gym after 5 at a weekend?). But found on close inspection that Lidl is significantly cheaper than Asda for some basic foods (potatoes, cold meats, cheese). For instance you can buy 7.5 kilos of baking potatoes for £3. That is a lot of food. Also they have cheap bread etc that the other supermarkets don't stock any more, for 50p a loaf. Cheese is about £5 per kilo. Beans are 28p a can. Tuna is 60p a tin. carrots are 50p /kilo. If you were poor/ on the breadline and have an oven/toaster, you could still eat very cheaply. Probably a weeks food for less than £20? That is what, 2 hours work at the minimum wage?
Compare this with the other costs, council tax, electricity, water, rent... all going up. If you can manage on the above then food is going to be a much less significant cost than other expenditure.
I've banged this drum for years, food was the #1 cost in a families budget decades ago, its not been true for decades.
The #1 cost in a budget today is housing. By miles.
The biggest difference between people's living standards today isn't really whether you earn more or less, its do you pay for your home or not?
For years people who rent have struggled. Now people who have to remortgage are joining them.
Live rent free and mortgage free? You're set for life.
I think this is the first post you have written where I agree completely with you. I believe that a basic level of affordable housing should be made available to everyone. It would solve lots of problems and probably save a lot of money too in the end. It is what exists in Finland and is a big contributory factor in there being hardly any crime.
It used to be available here, until Thatcher enabled the sale of council houses without enabling the revenue raised to be used to build more council houses.
Well indeed. You don't need exactly the same model of Council housing that existed before, but just a decent amount of subsidised housing available at a rate of say £500 per person per month, where the market is not providing it. Also to allow things like local connection to be determinative as to your right to access it.
Inspired partly by this mornings discussions I just called in at Lidl after being thrown out of the Council gym (closed at 5 - who would want to use the gym after 5 at a weekend?). But found on close inspection that Lidl is significantly cheaper than Asda for some basic foods (potatoes, cold meats, cheese). For instance you can buy 7.5 kilos of baking potatoes for £3. That is a lot of food. Also they have cheap bread etc that the other supermarkets don't stock any more, for 50p a loaf. Cheese is about £5 per kilo. Beans are 28p a can. Tuna is 60p a tin. carrots are 50p /kilo. If you were poor/ on the breadline and have an oven/toaster, you could still eat very cheaply. Probably a weeks food for less than £20? That is what, 2 hours work at the minimum wage?
Compare this with the other costs, council tax, electricity, water, rent... all going up. If you can manage on the above then food is going to be a much less significant cost than other expenditure.
I've banged this drum for years, food was the #1 cost in a families budget decades ago, its not been true for decades.
The #1 cost in a budget today is housing. By miles.
The biggest difference between people's living standards today isn't really whether you earn more or less, its do you pay for your home or not?
For years people who rent have struggled. Now people who have to remortgage are joining them.
Live rent free and mortgage free? You're set for life.
I think this is the first post you have written where I agree completely with you. I believe that a basic level of affordable housing should be made available to everyone. It would solve lots of problems and probably save a lot of money too in the end. It is what exists in Finland and is a big contributory factor in there being hardly any crime.
It used to be available here, until Thatcher enabled the sale of council houses without enabling the revenue raised to be used to build more council houses.
Has reverted to that in Scotland, though not recovered to the pre-Mrs Thatcher situation.
The Egyptian government is adamantly opposed to allowing a large number of Gazans into its country . That is partly because Egypt worries that its nation of more than 100 million people — already facing a severe economic crisis — could get sucked deeper into the regional unrest.
But Egypt and other governments in the area also fear that allowing Gazans to flee as refugees could lead to their permanent forced displacement, creating a deep setback for Palestinian rights and the struggle for a Palestinian state.
The Egyptian authorities have deployed military reinforcements along the country’s 8-mile border with the Gaza Strip, according to eyewitnesses, and makeshift cement barriers have been erected on the Egyptian side of the crossing, according to two witnesses on the Palestinian side.
NY Times blog
My bold. Solidarity eh?
Any Palestinians innocents who get caught up in the crossfire during this war are not remotely Israel's fault.
They are the responsibility of Hamas first and foremost who put them in jeopardy, then secondly the rest of the Arab world who are hellbent on denying them safe haven.
Israel are only doing what they have no alternative but to do. Egypt and Hamas are making a choice.
Inspired partly by this mornings discussions I just called in at Lidl after being thrown out of the Council gym (closed at 5 - who would want to use the gym after 5 at a weekend?). But found on close inspection that Lidl is significantly cheaper than Asda for some basic foods (potatoes, cold meats, cheese). For instance you can buy 7.5 kilos of baking potatoes for £3. That is a lot of food. Also they have cheap bread etc that the other supermarkets don't stock any more, for 50p a loaf. Cheese is about £5 per kilo. Beans are 28p a can. Tuna is 60p a tin. carrots are 50p /kilo. If you were poor/ on the breadline and have an oven/toaster, you could still eat very cheaply. Probably a weeks food for less than £20? That is what, 2 hours work at the minimum wage?
Compare this with the other costs, council tax, electricity, water, rent... all going up. If you can manage on the above then food is going to be a much less significant cost than other expenditure.
I've banged this drum for years, food was the #1 cost in a families budget decades ago, its not been true for decades.
The #1 cost in a budget today is housing. By miles.
The biggest difference between people's living standards today isn't really whether you earn more or less, its do you pay for your home or not?
For years people who rent have struggled. Now people who have to remortgage are joining them.
Live rent free and mortgage free? You're set for life.
I think this is the first post you have written where I agree completely with you. I believe that a basic level of affordable housing should be made available to everyone. It would solve lots of problems and probably save a lot of money too in the end. It is what exists in Finland and is a big contributory factor in there being hardly any crime.
It used to be available here, until Thatcher enabled the sale of council houses without enabling the revenue raised to be used to build more council houses.
Its got nothing to do with what Thatcher did, the population was stable under Thatcher and had been stable for decades.
Hence why prices were entirely affordable in the 1990s.
The problem is rampant population growth which began under Blair, for which housing has not kept up. Nothing wrong with population growth if housing and infrastructure keeps up, but it hasn't.
The Egyptian government is adamantly opposed to allowing a large number of Gazans into its country . That is partly because Egypt worries that its nation of more than 100 million people — already facing a severe economic crisis — could get sucked deeper into the regional unrest.
But Egypt and other governments in the area also fear that allowing Gazans to flee as refugees could lead to their permanent forced displacement, creating a deep setback for Palestinian rights and the struggle for a Palestinian state.
The Egyptian authorities have deployed military reinforcements along the country’s 8-mile border with the Gaza Strip, according to eyewitnesses, and makeshift cement barriers have been erected on the Egyptian side of the crossing, according to two witnesses on the Palestinian side.
NY Times blog
My bold. Solidarity eh?
The arab neighbours of Palestine have been doing this for decades. And this is what I feared. Gaza civilians flee south. Egypt maintains its closed border, very soon it will be shooting civilians as well. For their safety you understand...
The platform formerly known as Twitter used to be useful, entertaining, surprising, even joyful ... But last weekend, when news started trickling out about the Hamas attack on Israel, it was glaringly clear how degraded the platform had become ... On Saturday morning X was a putrid mess of fake footage, ideological screeds, lies and deflections. The platform is no longer useful. https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/2023/10/14/its-not-me-twitter-its-you-why-im-saying-goodbye-to-x/
Twitter used to be quite good at following rapidly moving events but has been awful for the last week.
Further evidence, not that it's needed, of Labour's grim determination to win the next election(s) and have no hostages to fortune. Seems to be working. You may not like it, but keeping 'Labour member supports Hamas' (because that's what support for Palestine would be twisted into) out of the tabloids seems a wise strategy.
I'm not sure. All these outrages serve to remind people of the apartheid regime that the Israeli Likud government are running. When nothing's going on we can all ignore it and go on about our business. It's David and Goliath and watching David getting pummelled is not attractive.
This was bound to turn. After the first few days of genuine sympathy we're now being asked to watch Israel reverting to type and it's not a pretty sight. The American support makes it worse. The young Gazan children talking to the TV cameras made you want to cry in a way that the Israelis saying they are determined to crush the Palestinians just doesn't.
What "Victory for Palestine" do the hard left envisage? Specifically?
Rather as the IRA weren't solely interested in unifying Ireland but in unifying Ireland under a Marxist dictatorship, Hamas sees the future Palestine state (incorporating Israel) as a hardline fundamentalist state allied to Iran.
The Egyptian government is adamantly opposed to allowing a large number of Gazans into its country . That is partly because Egypt worries that its nation of more than 100 million people — already facing a severe economic crisis — could get sucked deeper into the regional unrest.
But Egypt and other governments in the area also fear that allowing Gazans to flee as refugees could lead to their permanent forced displacement, creating a deep setback for Palestinian rights and the struggle for a Palestinian state.
The Egyptian authorities have deployed military reinforcements along the country’s 8-mile border with the Gaza Strip, according to eyewitnesses, and makeshift cement barriers have been erected on the Egyptian side of the crossing, according to two witnesses on the Palestinian side.
NY Times blog
My bold. Solidarity eh?
The arab neighbours of Palestine have been doing this for decades. And this is what I feared. Gaza civilians flee south. Egypt maintains its closed border, very soon it will be shooting civilians as well. For their safety you understand...
I think this is just how many other governments around the world view refugees, we are an exception.
Further evidence, not that it's needed, of Labour's grim determination to win the next election(s) and have no hostages to fortune. Seems to be working. You may not like it, but keeping 'Labour member supports Hamas' (because that's what support for Palestine would be twisted into) out of the tabloids seems a wise strategy.
I'm not sure. All these outrages serve to remind people of the apartheid regime that the Israeli Likud government are running. When nothing's going on we can all ignore it and go on about our business. It's David and Goliath and watching David getting pummelled is not attractive.
This was bound to turn. After the first few days of genuine sympathy we're now being asked to watch Israel reverting to type and it's not a pretty sight. The American support makes it worse. The young Gazan children talking to the TV cameras made you want to cry in a way that the Israelis saying they are determined to crush the Palestinians just doesn't.
Well the young Israeli kids in the kibbutz would have loved to talk to the tv cameras but tricky when your throat has been slit.
Further evidence, not that it's needed, of Labour's grim determination to win the next election(s) and have no hostages to fortune. Seems to be working. You may not like it, but keeping 'Labour member supports Hamas' (because that's what support for Palestine would be twisted into) out of the tabloids seems a wise strategy.
I'm not sure. All these outrages serve to remind people of the apartheid regime that the Israeli Likud government are running. When nothing's going on we can all ignore it and go on about our business. It's David and Goliath and watching David getting pummelled is not attractive.
This was bound to turn. After the first few days of genuine sympathy we're now being asked to watch Israel reverting to type and it's not a pretty sight. The American support makes it worse. The young Gazan children talking to the TV cameras made you want to cry in a way that the Israelis saying they are determined to crush the Palestinians just doesn't.
If you didn't cry at what Hamas did in their attack, there's something wrong with you.
The young Gazan children are caught in the crossfire between what their own (Hamas) government are responsible for, and Egypt etc refusing them safe haven.
Israel are not responsible at all. They need to destroy Hamas at any cost. If the rest of the Arab world won't provide Gazan children refuge, and Israel need to destroy Hamas, then what do you expect Israel to do precisely?
I don't know if anybody is still watching it after a disappointing third season, but the trailer for season 4 of "For All Mankind" is up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBcqdqYxZVg
Everyone's favorite Republican Congressman, George Santos, appears to be in even more trouble.
It turns out that not only was his entire backstory fiction, but (according to Prosecutors) he also used his donors credit cards personally.
As in, he "saved" the credit card details that people used to make donations to his campaign, and then used them to buy things for himself.
I remember being asked by a member of staff if we could set up a form for them to collect credit card info for booking something. We said 'no - use the approved process'. Then a few weeks later being in their secretaries office and finding them just taking the CC info over the phone and writing it all down in Notepad on a shared folder.
Still confident of my prediction. Ireland are the better team and will win by 6-9 points
What a brilliant day's entertainment. Truly wonderful stuff.
My prediction is NZ by 10. What was a creaky NZ unit at the start of the tournament has started properly firing. But basically it's just brilliant entertainment.
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
Labour thinks its members shouldn't celebrate the brutal rape, murder and dismemberment of innocent children shock.
That Starmer is a right Bastard. Now if we still had The Jeremy as leader, we would be able to celebrate beheaded babies like all decent people.
Moronic comments
As you know Solidarity with Palestine is not celebrating the brutal rape, murder and dismemberment of innocent children.
"Jeremy as leader, we would be able to celebrate beheaded babies" Oh dear you should grow up Pal
Socialist worker banners today - VICTORY FOR PALESTINE.
Victory for the baby murderers. And don't tell me the PSC lot aren't supporting that - they march together in solidarity.
If you cant tell the difference between Palestine and Hamas you are just showing how ignorant you are
That's like saying "VICTORY FOR GERMANY" in 1939-1945 wasn't pro-Nazi at all.
Bearing pictures of hangliders, and banners proclaiming “from the River to the Sea” is pretty indicative.
If I were Labour leader, and had taken over a party that had been condemned by the EHRC for anti-semitism, I’d do exactly the same.
As I asked, what kind of VICTORY FOR PALESTINE do the anti-semites want us to support?
Why do you call them anti-semites? There are many Jews who support the aspirations of the Palestinians and several Orthodox Rabbis who are not supporters of Zionism. Who exactly are you accusing of being anti semites?
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
It sends out a rather bizarre message that these people can visibly support terrorists without consequence, but Laurence Fox gets arrested for advocating direct action against ULEZ cameras.
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
It sends out a rather bizarre message that these people can visibly support terrorists without consequence, but Laurence Fox gets arrested for advocating direct action against ULEZ cameras.
Don’t forget the guy at the football with the picture of the kid that died of cancer. He was holding a picture and smiling. And he got done for it. Don’t get me wrong, he seems like a horrible scumbag. But we’ve got something wrong where in comparison, people exulting in the systematic and barbaric murder of children get nothing more than a shrug. Why is the British left so (unknowingly?) anti semitic? Bizarre.
Labour thinks its members shouldn't celebrate the brutal rape, murder and dismemberment of innocent children shock.
That Starmer is a right Bastard. Now if we still had The Jeremy as leader, we would be able to celebrate beheaded babies like all decent people.
Moronic comments
As you know Solidarity with Palestine is not celebrating the brutal rape, murder and dismemberment of innocent children.
"Jeremy as leader, we would be able to celebrate beheaded babies" Oh dear you should grow up Pal
Socialist worker banners today - VICTORY FOR PALESTINE.
Victory for the baby murderers. And don't tell me the PSC lot aren't supporting that - they march together in solidarity.
If you cant tell the difference between Palestine and Hamas you are just showing how ignorant you are
That's like saying "VICTORY FOR GERMANY" in 1939-1945 wasn't pro-Nazi at all.
Bearing pictures of hangliders, and banners proclaiming “from the River to the Sea” is pretty indicative.
If I were Labour leader, and had taken over a party that had been condemned by the EHRC for anti-semitism, I’d do exactly the same.
As I asked, what kind of VICTORY FOR PALESTINE do the anti-semites want us to support?
Why do you call them anti-semites? There are many Jews who support the aspirations of the Palestinians and several Orthodox Rabbis who are not supporters of Zionism. Who exactly are you accusing of being anti semites?
Which aspiration do you refer to? Safety and security for Palestinian non-Israeli citizens? We all want that. But "from the River to the Sea"? As in sweeping the holy land clear of the Jew?
Too many of the Palestinian groups cite this genocidal policy. Many non-zionist Jews but none who advocate their own genocide. Which is what Hamas want. What Hezbollah want. What Iran want.
Anyone writing the All Blacks off isn't sensible. Meanwhile. A 23rd Championship for the Mighty Wigan? Don't we have enough already? Oh go on then. If you insist.
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
The point that is being missed is that the Israeli government is now home to fascists. Their minister of Homeland Security and effectively second to Netanyahu is described here;
'Ben-Gvir is a disciple of the late Meir Kahane, who with his rabidly racist Kach party was banned from Israeli politics in 1994 and put on the Israeli and US lists of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). Ben Gvir himself was convicted in 2006 of supporting a terror organization and inciting racism. He’s been seen recently publicly waving a gun at Palestinians in eastern Jerusalem, urging soldiers to shoot demonstrators. An admirer of Hebron mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, he says all Israeli Arabs he deems unloyal to the state must be expelled'
The ignorance about what is going on in Israel seem to be lost in this strange right wing hatred of Palestinians in particular and Arabs in general. If Ben Gvir was a member of Hamas his CV would be trotted out regularly
Why are all the New Zealand players called Barrett?
Same family
Shows how important culture and coaching is when 20% of a national team comes from the same family. Matthew Syed makes this point regarding table tennis. The best players all went to his school because it had a teacher who played and was a good coach.
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
The point that is being missed is that the Israeli government is now home to fascists. Their minister of Homeland Security and effectively second to Netanyahu is described here;
'Ben-Gvir is a disciple of the late Meir Kahane, who with his rabidly racist Kach party was banned from Israeli politics in 1994 and put on the Israeli and US lists of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). Ben Gvir himself was convicted in 2006 of supporting a terror organization and inciting racism. He’s been seen recently publicly waving a gun at Palestinians in eastern Jerusalem, urging soldiers to shoot demonstrators. An admirer of Hebron mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, he says all Israeli Arabs he deems unloyal to the state must be expelled'
The ignorance about what is going on in Israel seem to be lost in this strange right wing hatred of Palestinians in particular and Arabs in general. If Ben Gvir was a member of Hamas his CV would be trotted out regularly
“Strange right wing hatred” is an odd way to characterise those of us disgusted by the inhumanity of burning, raping, dismembering and beheading other humans. I assume most of us here can distinguish pretty clearly between the innocent 8 year old Palestinian and the mass murdering Hamas butcher. Ya know, because we judge people on the content of their character rather than their immutable characteristics.
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
The point that is being missed is that the Israeli government is now home to fascists. Their minister of Homeland Security and effectively second to Netanyahu is described here;
'Ben-Gvir is a disciple of the late Meir Kahane, who with his rabidly racist Kach party was banned from Israeli politics in 1994 and put on the Israeli and US lists of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). Ben Gvir himself was convicted in 2006 of supporting a terror organization and inciting racism. He’s been seen recently publicly waving a gun at Palestinians in eastern Jerusalem, urging soldiers to shoot demonstrators. An admirer of Hebron mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, he says all Israeli Arabs he deems unloyal to the state must be expelled'
The ignorance about what is going on in Israel seem to be lost in this strange right wing hatred of Palestinians in particular and Arabs in general. If Ben Gvir was a member of Hamas his CV would be trotted out regularly
I note you don’t call Hamas out for being fascists. There is a lot of criticism from pro-Israelis about the current Israeli gov but silence on the fascism, misogyny, homophobia and medieval attitudes of Hamas. I’ll take an Israeli world over a Hamas world every day. Come on roger, call out the Hamas fascists.
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
The point that is being missed is that the Israeli government is now home to fascists. Their minister of Homeland Security and effectively second to Netanyahu is described here;
'Ben-Gvir is a disciple of the late Meir Kahane, who with his rabidly racist Kach party was banned from Israeli politics in 1994 and put on the Israeli and US lists of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). Ben Gvir himself was convicted in 2006 of supporting a terror organization and inciting racism. He’s been seen recently publicly waving a gun at Palestinians in eastern Jerusalem, urging soldiers to shoot demonstrators. An admirer of Hebron mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, he says all Israeli Arabs he deems unloyal to the state must be expelled'
The ignorance about what is going on in Israel seem to be lost in this strange right wing hatred of Palestinians in particular and Arabs in general. If Ben Gvir was a member of Hamas his CV would be trotted out regularly
“Strange right wing hatred” is an odd way to characterise those of us disgusted by the inhumanity of burning, raping, dismembering and beheading other humans. I assume most of us here can distinguish pretty clearly between the innocent 8 year old Palestinian and the mass murdering Hamas butcher. Ya know, because we judge people on the content of their character rather than their immutable characteristics.
Yes: 1. I'm not right wing 2. I've decried the Israeli crazies 3. I've decried Netanyahu
But the worst of the worst of the Israeli right wing have done what? I don't want to type the worst of the worst of what VICTORY FOR PALESTINE have done. Its unspeakable. But it makes the likes of Ben Gvir look like a pussycat.
I continue to find it very hard to find a balance in my views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, beyond 100% condemnation of the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas, and an underlying solidarity with civilians on all sides, but particularly Gazans as their lives are torn apart once more.
It feels like this conflict is the very definition of one with no easy answers (the latest Moral Maze is good at navigating this, incidentally). And so when, with apologies for naming names @boulay@BartholomewRoberts@RochdalePioneers and others seem to refusing any complexity whilst happily eliding the cause of Hamas with Palestinian solidarity more generally, and apportioning collective responsibility on a bunch of poor civilians, I find my sympathies swinging away from Israel quite dramatically.
I'm sure this is not fair - Israelis are not responsible for the brainlessness of anonymous posters on the internet. But just as those who are cheerleading a blank cheque for Israel's response seem to lump together anyone who has any qualms about all this as a raging anti-semite, I am finding it very hard not to be suspicious that the outrage of some is being manufactured in order to provide cover for an Israeli response that, in terms of pure human suffering, will vastly outweigh the atrocities that Hamas have perpetrated in the past week or so.
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
The point that is being missed is that the Israeli government is now home to fascists. Their minister of Homeland Security and effectively second to Netanyahu is described here;
'Ben-Gvir is a disciple of the late Meir Kahane, who with his rabidly racist Kach party was banned from Israeli politics in 1994 and put on the Israeli and US lists of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). Ben Gvir himself was convicted in 2006 of supporting a terror organization and inciting racism. He’s been seen recently publicly waving a gun at Palestinians in eastern Jerusalem, urging soldiers to shoot demonstrators. An admirer of Hebron mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, he says all Israeli Arabs he deems unloyal to the state must be expelled'
The ignorance about what is going on in Israel seem to be lost in this strange right wing hatred of Palestinians in particular and Arabs in general. If Ben Gvir was a member of Hamas his CV would be trotted out regularly
I fear we are seeing the sort of situation which caused Churchill to say "“If Hitler invaded Hell, I would at least make a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons."
There's a lot... I mean a lot to dislike about Netanyahu's government. There's also a huge amount to lament about the way that all sorts of people have treated Palestinians over decades. Turning to Hamas is perfectly understandable in that sort of situation.
Both sides can point the finger at the other. Neither side can really be said to be fighting totally justly. But right now (and this might change, my fear is that Israel is going to f@*k this up for want of a better idea that probably doesn't exist), Israel's attitudes and actions are much less flawed than those of Hamas. And part of the tragedy is that the people of Gaza can't disentangle themselves from Hamas, even assuming that they really want to. And plenty probably don't.
I continue to find it very hard to find a balance in my views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, beyond 100% condemnation of the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas, and an underlying solidarity with civilians on all sides, but particularly Gazans as their lives are torn apart once more.
It feels like this conflict is the very definition of one with no easy answers (the latest Moral Maze is good at navigating this, incidentally). And so when, with apologies for naming names @boulay@BartholomewRoberts@RochdalePioneers and others seem to refusing any complexity whilst happily eliding the cause of Hamas with Palestinian solidarity more generally, and apportioning collective responsibility on a bunch of poor civilians, I find my sympathies swinging away from Israel quite dramatically.
I'm sure this is not fair - Israelis are not responsible for the brainlessness of anonymous posters on the internet. But just as those who are cheerleading a blank cheque for Israel's response seem to lump together anyone who has any qualms about all this as a raging anti-semite, I am finding it very hard not to be suspicious that the outrage of some is being manufactured in order to provide cover for an Israeli response that, in terms of pure human suffering, will vastly outweigh the atrocities that Hamas have perpetrated in the past week or so.
You named three posters including me who consistently disagree on political matters for various reasons from various standpoints, social situations, backgrounds and aims. It shows the weakness in your mealy mouthed attempt to try and state some moral equivalence between what has happened in Gaza pre last Saturday and post. We are not a cabal giving a blank cheque to Israel and you can dress up your views however you want but you are a wet useful idiot for murderous terrorists who killed innocent civilians out of the blue in the most horrific ways. Fuck your pathetic moral posturing.
I continue to find it very hard to find a balance in my views on the Israel/Palestine conflict, beyond 100% condemnation of the atrocities perpetrated by Hamas, and an underlying solidarity with civilians on all sides, but particularly Gazans as their lives are torn apart once more.
It feels like this conflict is the very definition of one with no easy answers (the latest Moral Maze is good at navigating this, incidentally). And so when, with apologies for naming names @boulay@BartholomewRoberts@RochdalePioneers and others seem to refusing any complexity whilst happily eliding the cause of Hamas with Palestinian solidarity more generally, and apportioning collective responsibility on a bunch of poor civilians, I find my sympathies swinging away from Israel quite dramatically.
I'm sure this is not fair - Israelis are not responsible for the brainlessness of anonymous posters on the internet. But just as those who are cheerleading a blank cheque for Israel's response seem to lump together anyone who has any qualms about all this as a raging anti-semite, I am finding it very hard not to be suspicious that the outrage of some is being manufactured in order to provide cover for an Israeli response that, in terms of pure human suffering, will vastly outweigh the atrocities that Hamas have perpetrated in the past week or so.
Good evening. I am doing no such thing - the situation is ludicrously complex and nuanced, with decades of suspicion and fear stacked on top of millenia of crap about which version of God gave the place to which group.
There is no good side and no bad side - both sides have blame. Both sides have fault. And innocent civilians are innocent regardless of their side.
But - and its a galaxy-sized but - only one side is pledged to the utter destruction of the other. Only one side has just gone out and committed medieval acts of brutality. So yes, I offer my support to Israel. Because barbarism is inhuman and inexcusable. Hamas has to be eliminated, the same as ISIS did.
Support for peace and security for the Palestinian civilians is not anti-semitism - I've said it and I say it again now. But the hard left wankers do not want the same for the Israelis. From the River to the Sea remember.
Several times NZ failed to win the World Cup when they were clearly the best team.
I wonder if this time they will win it when they clearly aren't the best team.
The stat for metres gained was Ireland 1,100 NZ 700 with 5 mins left and Ireland dominated last 5 mins. So Ireland gained far, far more metres but still lost.
England to be the only European team to make the semis?
England new favourites to win?
I think that's unlikely, but it would be amusing if England got further than any other team in the British Isles, having been widely proclaimed the crappiest team therein.
There was a bunch of these nutters in Manchester today. Kind of hard to explain to my daughter, who naturally thought they were protesting against the baby-killers rather than in favour of them.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
The point that is being missed is that the Israeli government is now home to fascists. Their minister of Homeland Security and effectively second to Netanyahu is described here;
'Ben-Gvir is a disciple of the late Meir Kahane, who with his rabidly racist Kach party was banned from Israeli politics in 1994 and put on the Israeli and US lists of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). Ben Gvir himself was convicted in 2006 of supporting a terror organization and inciting racism. He’s been seen recently publicly waving a gun at Palestinians in eastern Jerusalem, urging soldiers to shoot demonstrators. An admirer of Hebron mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, he says all Israeli Arabs he deems unloyal to the state must be expelled'
The ignorance about what is going on in Israel seem to be lost in this strange right wing hatred of Palestinians in particular and Arabs in general. If Ben Gvir was a member of Hamas his CV would be trotted out regularly
Sounds quite tame compared to the Hamas chaps, Roger - no murdering babies, parading naked raped women in front of jeering crowds, beheading civilians etc. Maybe you can direct him to your friends in Hamas as to how to be proper scum.
Comments
Reduced by 3 on 22 mins
They are the responsibility of Hamas first and foremost who put them in jeopardy, then secondly the rest of the Arab world who are hellbent on denying them safe haven.
Israel are only doing what they have no alternative but to do. Egypt and Hamas are making a choice.
Hence why prices were entirely affordable in the 1990s.
The problem is rampant population growth which began under Blair, for which housing has not kept up. Nothing wrong with population growth if housing and infrastructure keeps up, but it hasn't.
I reckon Ireland are the better team and they will edge this. Then go to the final and lose to France
Feel free to mock me when I am proven wrong. Which is not yet
As you know Solidarity with Palestine is not celebrating the brutal rape, murder and dismemberment of innocent children.
"Jeremy as leader, we would be able to celebrate beheaded babies" Oh dear you should grow up Pal
Ireland are better than NZ. They're gonna win
NZ needed genius to score a try
Ireland just played their game plan: and scored a try
The latter wins
Victory for the baby murderers. And don't tell me the PSC lot aren't supporting that - they march together in solidarity.
But don't dare call them antisemitic. They simply don't like Israel you see for entirely unrelated reasons.
This was bound to turn. After the first few days of genuine sympathy we're now being asked to watch Israel reverting to type and it's not a pretty sight. The American support makes it worse. The young Gazan children talking to the TV cameras made you want to cry in a way that the Israelis saying they are determined to crush the Palestinians just doesn't.
That Hamas?
The young Gazan children are caught in the crossfire between what their own (Hamas) government are responsible for, and Egypt etc refusing them safe haven.
Israel are not responsible at all. They need to destroy Hamas at any cost. If the rest of the Arab world won't provide Gazan children refuge, and Israel need to destroy Hamas, then what do you expect Israel to do precisely?
If I were Labour leader, and had taken over a party that had been condemned by the EHRC for anti-semitism, I’d do exactly the same.
Still confident of my prediction. Ireland are the better team and will win by 6-9 points
It turns out that not only was his entire backstory fiction, but (according to Prosecutors) he also used his donors credit cards personally.
As in, he "saved" the credit card details that people used to make donations to his campaign, and then used them to buy things for himself.
Shared with around 4000 other staff.
My prediction is NZ by 10. What was a creaky NZ unit at the start of the tournament has started properly firing. But basically it's just brilliant entertainment.
I mean, I can totally get on board with, in principle, support for a country for the Palestinians. But these people seem largely excited by violence against Israelis.
There Is a Jewish Hope for Palestinian Liberation. It Must Survive.
Oct. 14, 2023
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/14/opinion/palestinian-ethical-resistance-answers-grief-and-rage.html?unlocked_article_code=KtULgQiWG7iVv7a2kBOO0S_GVv73_YHENW_8R6ondUPDjkeleo0Znhzt5nEtDjsZ5tVOdKBAUeCmHtGEAAD-P8VDo022SNBYUp_aR3RhmkZtLQ7MH7WRKtmacPGsDl2Eb7gBV_LTanbf1nP34QGFw-8XvtA5Ks60JFhykDPVoRD0PVNA2riJ0NjCa9cVJ8UZQHjQdiew-B69b8mnLFVNoi5ce8T5ac1JhYAHjV8wgspFCehtXqCy5oLi8A5IrMaqzIkfO7qoqc8hPH6ZLXrc0_kHWLork5kKDJEuK1A1j1niXLDbcexPsHCjEQSQiYt-UStVkIJ8v7JDIkB40ero2Alabarjub2SvNDhFYF01mNqrvS5-9Be_RCBVeLXdU4&smid=url-share
#BREAKING: Iran has sent a message to Israel: If Israeli operations in Gaza continue, we will have to intervene - Axios
What Iran wanted all along?
What are they threatening now?
Iran would come out worse of an Iran/Israel war. Especially if America gets dragged in.
Destroy the Ayatollahs and Hamas in one go. Could be a good war to have if Iran want to Iran want to be so stupid.
The only snag is, on past form they would probably take out half of Iran's citizens in the process, including most of the pro-Israeli ones.
Too many of the Palestinian groups cite this genocidal policy. Many non-zionist Jews but none who advocate their own genocide. Which is what Hamas want. What Hezbollah want. What Iran want.
Meanwhile.
A 23rd Championship for the Mighty Wigan?
Don't we have enough already?
Oh go on then.
If you insist.
'Ben-Gvir is a disciple of the late Meir Kahane, who with his rabidly racist Kach party was banned from Israeli politics in 1994 and put on the Israeli and US lists of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs). Ben Gvir himself was convicted in 2006 of supporting a terror organization and inciting racism. He’s been seen recently publicly waving a gun at Palestinians in eastern Jerusalem, urging soldiers to shoot demonstrators. An admirer of Hebron mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, he says all Israeli Arabs he deems unloyal to the state must be expelled'
The ignorance about what is going on in Israel seem to be lost in this strange right wing hatred of Palestinians in particular and Arabs in general. If Ben Gvir was a member of Hamas his CV would be trotted out regularly
lol!
Better coached team wins
1. I'm not right wing
2. I've decried the Israeli crazies
3. I've decried Netanyahu
But the worst of the worst of the Israeli right wing have done what? I don't want to type the worst of the worst of what VICTORY FOR PALESTINE have done. Its unspeakable. But it makes the likes of Ben Gvir look like a pussycat.
It feels like this conflict is the very definition of one with no easy answers (the latest Moral Maze is good at navigating this, incidentally). And so when, with apologies for naming names @boulay @BartholomewRoberts @RochdalePioneers and others seem to refusing any complexity whilst happily eliding the cause of Hamas with Palestinian solidarity more generally, and apportioning collective responsibility on a bunch of poor civilians, I find my sympathies swinging away from Israel quite dramatically.
I'm sure this is not fair - Israelis are not responsible for the brainlessness of anonymous posters on the internet. But just as those who are cheerleading a blank cheque for Israel's response seem to lump together anyone who has any qualms about all this as a raging anti-semite, I am finding it very hard not to be suspicious that the outrage of some is being manufactured in order to provide cover for an Israeli response that, in terms of pure human suffering, will vastly outweigh the atrocities that Hamas have perpetrated in the past week or so.
There's a lot... I mean a lot to dislike about Netanyahu's government. There's also a huge amount to lament about the way that all sorts of people have treated Palestinians over decades. Turning to Hamas is perfectly understandable in that sort of situation.
Both sides can point the finger at the other. Neither side can really be said to be fighting totally justly. But right now (and this might change, my fear is that Israel is going to f@*k this up for want of a better idea that probably doesn't exist), Israel's attitudes and actions are much less flawed than those of Hamas. And part of the tragedy is that the people of Gaza can't disentangle themselves from Hamas, even assuming that they really want to. And plenty probably don't.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
There is no good side and no bad side - both sides have blame. Both sides have fault. And innocent civilians are innocent regardless of their side.
But - and its a galaxy-sized but - only one side is pledged to the utter destruction of the other. Only one side has just gone out and committed medieval acts of brutality. So yes, I offer my support to Israel. Because barbarism is inhuman and inexcusable. Hamas has to be eliminated, the same as ISIS did.
Support for peace and security for the Palestinian civilians is not anti-semitism - I've said it and I say it again now. But the hard left wankers do not want the same for the Israelis. From the River to the Sea remember.
They are a genuinely great team. That was cruel
Fuck the Somme, it was like VERDUN
So that means France v NZ final?
This will be very hard for them
".... Keir Starmer appears to have enjoyed a “glitter-bomb bounce” from the Labour conference"
Lab lead up to 16% with Opinium
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/14/glitter-bomb-bounce-makes-keir-starmer-labour-poll-ratings-sparkle
I wonder if this time they will win it when they clearly aren't the best team.
The stat for metres gained was Ireland 1,100 NZ 700 with 5 mins left and Ireland dominated last 5 mins. So Ireland gained far, far more metres but still lost.