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A selection of the front pages as more horror stories seep out – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited October 2023 in General
imageA selection of the front pages as more horror stories seep out – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,709
    First, like Labour.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    The dilemma facing media luvvies, usually so quick to jump on any trendy cause for likes and retweets

    https://x.com/mericamemed/status/1712453064790274095?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Taz said:

    The dilemma facing media luvvies, usually so quick to jump on any trendy cause for likes and retweets

    https://x.com/mericamemed/status/1712453064790274095?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ

    Possibly the best take of the whole week.

    The world is a better place for having comedians.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303
    Foxy said:
    And when (if) those 1.1 million have left and Israel has occupied Gaza City, will it withdraw and let them go back?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Probably yes.

    Geoff Marshall's did an experiment on his video and concluded that you had to do more than 3 journies in London on an oyster or tap card before you started losing out.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Obviously 9 is far too old for this but is there a "free" age for travel on the underground. I imagine if I went down there my 17 month old would prefer to be carried anyway (Including over the barriers)
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Probably yes.

    Geoff Marshall's did an experiment on his video and concluded that you had to do more than 3 journies in London on an oyster or tap card before you started losing out.
    That's not what really bothers me. It's the inconvenience for occasional travellers - especially those with kids.
  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389
    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    He has to recoup losses from covid times as that was the small print for the bail out loan from the government. Same as the ULEZ decision to extend to outer london early.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    He has to recoup losses from covid times as that was the small print for the bail out loan from the government. Same as the ULEZ decision to extend to outer london early.
    Or... he has to recoup losses from his fair freeze wheeze. (sorry, electoral bribe).
  • Options
    lintolinto Posts: 32

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    You can get him a free travel pass. Just got my 2 one. You pay £10 and provide a photo and then free to travel for him.

    https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,360

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Work be long b4 pensioner bus passes are withdrawn in london
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    edited October 2023
    linto said:

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    You can get him a free travel pass. Just got my 2 one. You pay £10 and provide a photo and then free to travel for him.

    https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572
    So it's more inconvenient than the old system, in that we need to keep a card for him? And it costs us to get it?

    And the card will only be needed for a few months until he is ten, and then we'll need to get another card?

    As I said, Khan evidently does not want people from those dark, Satanic areas outside the M25 to travel to London...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,303
    OK, who had 'Australia to be below the Netherlands after two rounds of the World Cup' as a bet?

    Whoever it was deserves to be renamed Nostradamus.

    Or perhaps Cassandra if you're an Aussie.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654
    edited October 2023

    linto said:

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    You can get him a free travel pass. Just got my 2 one. You pay £10 and provide a photo and then free to travel for him.

    https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572
    So it's more inconvenient than the old system, in that we need to keep a card for him? And it costs us to get it?

    And the card will only be needed for a few months until he is ten, and then we'll need to get another card?

    As I said, Khan evidently does not want people from those dark, Satanic areas outside the M25 to travel to London...
    You can just pay for the underground by contactless, and with a 9 year old you just walk them in free - my 10 year old daughter doesn’t have a zip card, she just goes free, and we use it all the time. Oyster cards aren’t needed anymore for adults and haven’t been for years.

    It’s just about the easiest metro system in the world to access for visitors.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    TimS said:

    linto said:

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    You can get him a free travel pass. Just got my 2 one. You pay £10 and provide a photo and then free to travel for him.

    https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572
    So it's more inconvenient than the old system, in that we need to keep a card for him? And it costs us to get it?

    And the card will only be needed for a few months until he is ten, and then we'll need to get another card?

    As I said, Khan evidently does not want people from those dark, Satanic areas outside the M25 to travel to London...
    You can just pay for the underground by contactless, and with a 9 year old you just walk them in free - my 10 year old daughter doesn’t have a zip card, she just goes free, and we use it all the time. Oyster cards aren’t needed anymore for adults and haven’t been for years.

    It’s just about the easiest metro system in the world to access for visitors.
    Yep, reading it in detail the zip oyster is for if your 5-10 year old needs to get round London by themselves.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,992
    TimS said:

    linto said:

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    You can get him a free travel pass. Just got my 2 one. You pay £10 and provide a photo and then free to travel for him.

    https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572
    So it's more inconvenient than the old system, in that we need to keep a card for him? And it costs us to get it?

    And the card will only be needed for a few months until he is ten, and then we'll need to get another card?

    As I said, Khan evidently does not want people from those dark, Satanic areas outside the M25 to travel to London...
    You can just pay for the underground by contactless, and with a 9 year old you just walk them in free - my 10 year old daughter doesn’t have a zip card, she just goes free, and we use it all the time. Oyster cards aren’t needed anymore for adults and haven’t been for years.

    It’s just about the easiest metro system in the world to access for visitors.
    The card is for 5-10 you don’t need the next one until they are 11 and even then you don’t need that one provide you use the accessible exits ‘ entrances and you children aren’t too slow.

    Our girls are now 21. They had Oyster cards from the age of 11 - easy to get and a nice momento of London
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654
    I know people love to knock London, but ease of buying transport on the tube (and other modes of transport) is really not the way to knock it. It’s an extremely user friendly system.
  • Options
    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    edited October 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Work be long b4 pensioner bus passes are withdrawn in london
    Good riddance.

    It's always been absurd that multi-millionaire pensioners travel for free while poor workers pay full price and students only get 30% off. I have some relatives in that category, both of whom admit its ridiculous.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,014

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Probably yes.

    Geoff Marshall's did an experiment on his video and concluded that you had to do more than 3 journies in London on an oyster or tap card before you started losing out.
    For that reason I rarely get a travelcard any more. Central London is eminently walkable, anyway.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    TimS said:

    I know people love to knock London, but ease of buying transport on the tube (and other modes of transport) is really not the way to knock it. It’s an extremely user friendly system.

    So why are they removing something that made it user friendly, so that it will now be less user friendly?
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    The last square inch is going to be pretty crowded.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
  • Options
    Chris said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    The last square inch is going to be pretty crowded.
    Hence the need for safe havens.

    Or its going to get pretty bloody but hopefully somewhere that claims to support Palestinians has seen some humanity and offers refuge by then.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    "Microsoft's revised offer to buy Call of Duty-maker Activision Blizzard has been approved by UK regulators."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67080391
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    Another day, another article from Simon Jenkins in The Guardian pouring scorn on Labours plans to actually provide the homes people need.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/labour-s-supposedly-bold-new-towns-idea-has-been-tried-before-and-it-failed/ar-AA1i6Zwr?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=7a3b2af16c884cd4b9845a74629e93cb&ei=16
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    How do you shift 1.1 million people in 24 hours?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,992

    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
    How has Khan mucked up TfLs finances? Covid did that and the cost of that is the treasury and the Department of Transport playing games.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Work be long b4 pensioner bus passes are withdrawn in london
    Good riddance.

    It's always been absurd that multi-millionaire pensioners travel for free while poor workers pay full price and students only get 30% off. I have some relatives in that category, both of whom admit its ridiculous.
    And what about pensioners on the state pension who have very little disposable income. Not all pensioners are multi millionaires.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654

    TimS said:

    I know people love to knock London, but ease of buying transport on the tube (and other modes of transport) is really not the way to knock it. It’s an extremely user friendly system.

    So why are they removing something that made it user friendly, so that it will now be less user friendly?
    Because you can just touch in and out with a credit card or phone. That’s as simple as it gets. It wouldn’t even cross my mind to get a combined travelcard.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930

    "Microsoft's revised offer to buy Call of Duty-maker Activision Blizzard has been approved by UK regulators."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67080391

    Is it being blocked by the EU or US ?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,709
    edited October 2023
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    How do you shift 1.1 million people in 24 hours?
    Along destroyed roads, without fuel, food, water, including the hospitalised, and without stopping the bombing and artillery fire.
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,203

    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
    Seriously, what is easier than tap on, tap off. If a Tory Mayor was delivering these changes you’d be nodding sagely and saying something about public transport having to pay its way.

  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    I know people love to knock London, but ease of buying transport on the tube (and other modes of transport) is really not the way to knock it. It’s an extremely user friendly system.

    So why are they removing something that made it user friendly, so that it will now be less user friendly?
    Because you can just touch in and out with a credit card or phone. That’s as simple as it gets. It wouldn’t even cross my mind to get a combined travelcard.
    It’s the way other transit systems are going, too. In Rotterdam the other week it was exactly the same - tap in and out with a UK bank card.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    How do you shift 1.1 million people in 24 hours?
    They’ve not managed the messaging well, but consider the options here.

    Israel is going to invade and occupy Gaza in response to the slaughter this weekend. Either it just goes ahead and does this, as most armies at war do, with a high risk of collateral damage, or it sends prior warning (despite the risk of losing the element of surprise) to reduce the risk of civilian casualties.

    The trouble is they’ve said it in such a way it sounds like they’re going to flatten Gaza city. So now people on the airwaves are talking about this being ethnic cleansing. Instead of what it is, an attempt to reduce the number of people in the way during the advance. Ukraine has made similar requests multiple times when it was recapturing settlements, including Kherson.
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    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    Mandated by that evil Tory Mr Grant Shapps...
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,134

    Chris said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    The last square inch is going to be pretty crowded.
    Hence the need for safe havens.

    Or its going to get pretty bloody but hopefully somewhere that claims to support Palestinians has seen some humanity and offers refuge by then.
    Do you think the UK should provide a safe haven for everyone from the Gaza Strip who say they are civilians, or just other countries?
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    Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 595
    So we are finally at the knockout stages of the RWC - and my predictions below are in order of predictability.....

    The most predictable game is Wales Argentina. While Argentina started the tournament poorly, they have gradually improved and should provide Wales with stiff competion. But Wales have had a strong performance so far, and apart from their traditional 60 minute wobble have generally been dominant in their matches. Wales by +10.

    France v South Africa. This was my original prediction for the final, but Ireland spoilt that, and this game will be very close. France looked very good in their New Zealand match but have not been tested since. South Africa have had two tough games and will be fully prepared for this match. Home advantage will help and I predict France by +6

    Ireland v New Zealand. Ireland are fully deserving of their #1 world ranking, and are almost perfect in every aspect of the game. New Zealand have had a couple of poor games (by their standards) but will have done their homework on Ireland. New Zealand could continue Ireland's quarter final curse, but I predict Ireland to win by +3.

    England v Fiji. This game is very difficult to predict, and very dependent on which teams turn up. England have not impressed but seem to have developed a simple game plan - this worked well against Argentina but not so much against Samoa. Fiji played well against Wales and Australia but were poor against Portugal. I predict this game will follow a similar pattern to the Wales Fiji game - with England cruising to an early lead based on their kicking, but with Fiji countering with some punching tries. My prediction is Fiji by +6 but this could equally be England by +6.
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    edited October 2023
    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Work be long b4 pensioner bus passes are withdrawn in london
    Good riddance.

    It's always been absurd that multi-millionaire pensioners travel for free while poor workers pay full price and students only get 30% off. I have some relatives in that category, both of whom admit its ridiculous.
    And what about pensioners on the state pension who have very little disposable income. Not all pensioners are multi millionaires.
    The point is, it's completely the wrong criterion to choose, since whether you are a pensioner or not is a terrible predictor of your wealth, or the extent to which you travel. Some pensioners need free travel, some don't - some are wealthy, some aren't, some travel every day and some never travel. It is a lousy proxy for those variables. Some blue-eyed people need free travel, some don't, but we don't give blue-eyed people free travel.

    Giving specific discounts is a stupid way to help particular groups, because the amount they use the service differs widely. Much better to spend the money on cash handouts directly rather than tie it to specific consumption of a service, which they may or may not use. But it's a popular gimmick for politicians, so of course we're stuck with it for a while.
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    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
    What bemuses me is that Covid is the catch-all excuse for the Tories, but doesn't exist when it is Labour politicians...
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,040
    Penddu2 said:

    So we are finally at the knockout stages of the RWC - and my predictions below are in order of predictability.....

    You are predicting all 4 winners will be Northern Hemisphere, specifically 6 Nations teams

    Could have had good odds on that at the start of the tournament...
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    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
    Take a step back. Kids travel free, even your 9-year-old from outside London. As a matter of interest, how much are child fares round your way? As an adult, you can use any contactless payment card or phone. The important point is always to use the same contactless card to benefit from daily fare capping and also free travel if you change buses quickly. You do have that where you live? Thought not.
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    Scott_xP said:

    Penddu2 said:

    So we are finally at the knockout stages of the RWC - and my predictions below are in order of predictability.....

    You are predicting all 4 winners will be Northern Hemisphere, specifically 6 Nations teams

    Could have had good odds on that at the start of the tournament...
    Won't do now though, I suspect Pen is calling this right.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
    Take a step back. Kids travel free, even your 9-year-old from outside London. As a matter of interest, how much are child fares round your way? As an adult, you can use any contactless payment card or phone. The important point is always to use the same contactless card to benefit from daily fare capping and also free travel if you change buses quickly. You do have that where you live? Thought not.
    No; but then we are not blessed with the marvellous public transport system London has.

    But what you're talking about is more complex. Buying a ticket means the job is jobbed; if you don't know the arcane system in London then it's blooming confusing.

    I fear the problem is that people who live in London and use the system regularly are used to it. The problem occurs with us plebs who only go into London a few times a year.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,709
    Yvette listening to Victoria Atkins on BBCQT catches the mood of the nation by her body language.


  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045

    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
    What bemuses me is that Covid is the catch-all excuse for the Tories, but doesn't exist when it is Labour politicians...
    Covid undoubtedly affected TfL's finances. But the fare's wheeze put the finances in a poorer situation before Covid hit. Blaming the current situation on Covid and ignoring Khan's blatant electoral bribe is just as bad as the situation you mention.

    (And I went on about the stupidity of the fare freeze well before Covid struck...)
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    I know it is a few days on, but I am still agog at the news that our prisons are so full that judges have been told that they cannot sentence rapists and other serious offenders.

    You want an example of Broken Britain, of the so-called party of law and order failing to make anything work, and here it is. The country is crumbling around us and everyone can see it. And yet the happy few still insist that we must vote Tory because Labour would ruin things.

    Open your eyes. Its ruined already.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Penddu2 said:

    So we are finally at the knockout stages of the RWC - and my predictions below are in order of predictability.....

    The most predictable game is Wales Argentina. While Argentina started the tournament poorly, they have gradually improved and should provide Wales with stiff competion. But Wales have had a strong performance so far, and apart from their traditional 60 minute wobble have generally been dominant in their matches. Wales by +10.

    France v South Africa. This was my original prediction for the final, but Ireland spoilt that, and this game will be very close. France looked very good in their New Zealand match but have not been tested since. South Africa have had two tough games and will be fully prepared for this match. Home advantage will help and I predict France by +6

    Ireland v New Zealand. Ireland are fully deserving of their #1 world ranking, and are almost perfect in every aspect of the game. New Zealand have had a couple of poor games (by their standards) but will have done their homework on Ireland. New Zealand could continue Ireland's quarter final curse, but I predict Ireland to win by +3.

    England v Fiji. This game is very difficult to predict, and very dependent on which teams turn up. England have not impressed but seem to have developed a simple game plan - this worked well against Argentina but not so much against Samoa. Fiji played well against Wales and Australia but were poor against Portugal. I predict this game will follow a similar pattern to the Wales Fiji game - with England cruising to an early lead based on their kicking, but with Fiji countering with some punching tries. My prediction is Fiji by +6 but this could equally be England by +6.

    I have South Africans over on Sunday to watch the game, so I hope your prediction for that game is wrong :smile:
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,880
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    How do you shift 1.1 million people in 24 hours?
    Along destroyed roads, without fuel, food, water, including the hospitalised, and without stopping the bombing and artillery fire.
    Israel are about to walk into the trap cheered on by SKS and Sunak Biden et al.

    How can they believe killing tens of thousands of civilians will make them safer?
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    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    The last square inch is going to be pretty crowded.
    Hence the need for safe havens.

    Or its going to get pretty bloody but hopefully somewhere that claims to support Palestinians has seen some humanity and offers refuge by then.
    Do you think the UK should provide a safe haven for everyone from the Gaza Strip who say they are civilians, or just other countries?
    Other countries.

    We stand with Israel.

    Let those who stand with Palestine take them.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,500
    edited October 2023

    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
    What bemuses me is that Covid is the catch-all excuse for the Tories, but doesn't exist when it is Labour politicians...
    This is how the maths was looking in May 2020;

    TfL are currently running approximately 80% of scheduled bus services and 50% of Tube services. The number of passengers carried, however, has dropped by 85% on buses and 95% on the Tube. This means that it is currently costing TfL £600m a month to operate services.

    That leaves an anticipated revenue gap for 2020/21 of roughly £4bn and climbing...

    Some mitigating measures (such as the government furlough scheme) and existing emergency funds can be used to offset this, but TfL’s new emergency budget anticipates at least a £3.2bn funding shortfall for this year. This is unsustainable, for a number of reasons, so it is no surprise that TfL are now turning to the government for help...

    What is true, however is that the Fare Freeze has no real impact on the unprecedented situation today. TfL do not have £12bn of debt because Sadiq Khan decided to forego £650m of farebox revenue over the last four years. Claiming otherwise is the kind of basic mathematical failure that would make a Year 3 schoolchild blush.


    https://www.londonreconnections.com/2020/tfl-the-impossible-finances-of-fighting-a-pandemic/

    Long story short, central government have TfL over a barrel and everyone knows it. See also the sharp edges of ULEZ expansion (e.g. stingy scrappage) which TfL can't afford to mitigate.
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    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    Mandated by that evil Tory Mr Grant Shapps...
    ULEZ = Tory policy :lol:
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    And when (if) those 1.1 million have left and Israel has occupied Gaza City, will it withdraw and let them go back?
    The Palestinians won't believe so, as since 1948 that's not tended to be the case.
    Which is of course one of the reasons why 'Egypt should just take them all' isn't likely to be an easy solution.

    It might seem odd to us to be so passionately attached to somewhere like Gaza, but many are.
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    Ghedebrav said:

    Re kids on the Tube - it is still kind of confusing to know how to get through the gates for people who don’t have great English (E.g. tourists) or for people who aren’t used to using public transport (E.g. people from lots of the rest of the uk where public transport is either bobbins or non-existent).

    I'm all for different ways of doing things like Oystercard or contactless. But they are also more complex until you know the system, esp. compared to ticketed systems, which pretty much anyone who has used public transport worldwide knows. Buy a ticket, get on.

    Khan has mucked up TfL's finances, and he's trying to make anyone but Londoners pay.
    Take a step back. Kids travel free, even your 9-year-old from outside London. As a matter of interest, how much are child fares round your way? As an adult, you can use any contactless payment card or phone. The important point is always to use the same contactless card to benefit from daily fare capping and also free travel if you change buses quickly. You do have that where you live? Thought not.
    No; but then we are not blessed with the marvellous public transport system London has.

    But what you're talking about is more complex. Buying a ticket means the job is jobbed; if you don't know the arcane system in London then it's blooming confusing.

    I fear the problem is that people who live in London and use the system regularly are used to it. The problem occurs with us plebs who only go into London a few times a year.
    Possibly but Transport for London has an excellent website on which all is made clear.
    https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard
    https://tfl.gov.uk/

    If I were you, I'd get Oyster cards for your child and yourself. It will make your son feel more grown-up to have his own ticket; you can use the normal gates rather than having to look for the special ones at the side; if you drop your card, there is not the risk of a thief making off with your credit card or phone.
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    Talking about ruins. We now have a test for the arab world, for the Palestinian and Ottoman diaspora.

    YOU MUST SUPPORT THE PALESTINIANS people say. Yet the Palestinians outside of Gaza refuse to do so. Egypt has tightly restricted the Rafa border crossing since 2007, as afeared of Hamas as Israel is. Even now, its policy on Gazans fleeing the war is don't come here.

    Sorry, not good enough. Hamas started this war, you were a key player in turning up the heat which led up to it, now you need to take some responsibility.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    Foxy said:

    Yvette listening to Victoria Atkins on BBCQT catches the mood of the nation by her body language.


    Shouldn't she have fingers in both ears, then ?
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122
    How come we're not talking about the car that caught fire in Luton any more? For some reason that whole discussion suddenly went dead. Weird.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,452
    Penddu2 said:

    So we are finally at the knockout stages of the RWC - and my predictions below are in order of predictability.....

    The most predictable game is Wales Argentina. While Argentina started the tournament poorly, they have gradually improved and should provide Wales with stiff competion. But Wales have had a strong performance so far, and apart from their traditional 60 minute wobble have generally been dominant in their matches. Wales by +10.

    France v South Africa. This was my original prediction for the final, but Ireland spoilt that, and this game will be very close. France looked very good in their New Zealand match but have not been tested since. South Africa have had two tough games and will be fully prepared for this match. Home advantage will help and I predict France by +6

    Ireland v New Zealand. Ireland are fully deserving of their #1 world ranking, and are almost perfect in every aspect of the game. New Zealand have had a couple of poor games (by their standards) but will have done their homework on Ireland. New Zealand could continue Ireland's quarter final curse, but I predict Ireland to win by +3.

    England v Fiji. This game is very difficult to predict, and very dependent on which teams turn up. England have not impressed but seem to have developed a simple game plan - this worked well against Argentina but not so much against Samoa. Fiji played well against Wales and Australia but were poor against Portugal. I predict this game will follow a similar pattern to the Wales Fiji game - with England cruising to an early lead based on their kicking, but with Fiji countering with some punching tries. My prediction is Fiji by +6 but this could equally be England by +6.

    Agree with all of that. I've been slightly unimpressed with South Africa - I think their refusal to select a proper flyhalf or hooker will do for them.
    The way to beat Fiji is to play fast and creative rugby, like Portugal did. England have some creative players but seem reluctant to use them. Farrell is certainly not a bad player but England never play creatively when he is at flyhalf. Can't see England winning.
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    Talking about ruins. We now have a test for the arab world, for the Palestinian and Ottoman diaspora.

    YOU MUST SUPPORT THE PALESTINIANS people say. Yet the Palestinians outside of Gaza refuse to do so. Egypt has tightly restricted the Rafa border crossing since 2007, as afeared of Hamas as Israel is. Even now, its policy on Gazans fleeing the war is don't come here.

    Sorry, not good enough. Hamas started this war, you were a key player in turning up the heat which led up to it, now you need to take some responsibility.

    Egypt might well be afraid of admitting Palestinians but it claims this is to preserve Palestinians' right to, erm, Palestine and stop Israel simply absorbing Gaza. Probably a little of column A and a little of column B.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,430
    edited October 2023

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    The last square inch is going to be pretty crowded.
    Hence the need for safe havens.

    Or its going to get pretty bloody but hopefully somewhere that claims to support Palestinians has seen some humanity and offers refuge by then.
    Do you think the UK should provide a safe haven for everyone from the Gaza Strip who say they are civilians, or just other countries?
    Other countries.

    We stand with Israel.

    Let those who stand with Palestine take them.
    You are a total plonker [...]
    No doxxing please, not even of people who are obviously wrong.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667

    I know it is a few days on, but I am still agog at the news that our prisons are so full that judges have been told that they cannot sentence rapists and other serious offenders.

    You want an example of Broken Britain, of the so-called party of law and order failing to make anything work, and here it is. The country is crumbling around us and everyone can see it. And yet the happy few still insist that we must vote Tory because Labour would ruin things.

    Open your eyes. Its ruined already.

    It is a predictable consequence (which was predicted by the former Chief Inspector of Prisons) of the rapid increase in length of sentences outpacing the planned building of new prison places.

    And it's likely to get worse without a change in policy.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Ukraine: that Russian push on Avdiivka is coming at a mighty cost, so far for little gain.

    Todays casualty numbers: 1,030 military personnel, 26 tanks, 49 armoured fighting vehicles, 44 artillery. That's 3,000 troops lost in 3 days. If this was being driven by the military - well, it wouldn't have been started as these levels of losses would have been obvious. Somone in the Kremlin - someone running for re-election in March - has said he needs a win before winter closes the campaign. A win to put before the voters. Regardless of cost.

    And regardless of the weaknesses it might cause elsewhere along the line, where they have robbed Peter to pay Paul. Especially when the F-16s and ATACMS come out to play to exploit those weaknesses.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    The last square inch is going to be pretty crowded.
    Hence the need for safe havens.

    Or its going to get pretty bloody but hopefully somewhere that claims to support Palestinians has seen some humanity and offers refuge by then.
    Do you think the UK should provide a safe haven for everyone from the Gaza Strip who say they are civilians, or just other countries?
    Other countries.

    We stand with Israel.

    Let those who stand with Palestine take them.
    You're saying that our standing with Israel exempts us from any responsibility for the couple of million refugees that you have been arguing should leave Gaza ?

    Interesting argument.
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    Betting post:

    Labour continue to drift and Cons shorten in Mid Beds. I’m not sure if we’ll actually get crossover though.

    I cracked last week and put £8 on the Tories at 2/1.

    The value might actually now be with the LDs at this stage.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,709

    I know it is a few days on, but I am still agog at the news that our prisons are so full that judges have been told that they cannot sentence rapists and other serious offenders.

    You want an example of Broken Britain, of the so-called party of law and order failing to make anything work, and here it is. The country is crumbling around us and everyone can see it. And yet the happy few still insist that we must vote Tory because Labour would ruin things.

    Open your eyes. Its ruined already.

    NHS waiting list hit a new all time high in England yesterday. It barely made the news. This is the country we live in now.

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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654

    How come we're not talking about the car that caught fire in Luton any more? For some reason that whole discussion suddenly went dead. Weird.

    I'm quite relieved it was a short lived story as I'm flying out from Luton airport tomorrow morning.
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122
    Taz said:

    Another day, another article from Simon Jenkins in The Guardian pouring scorn on Labours plans to actually provide the homes people need.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/labour-s-supposedly-bold-new-towns-idea-has-been-tried-before-and-it-failed/ar-AA1i6Zwr?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=7a3b2af16c884cd4b9845a74629e93cb&ei=16

    Jenkins is elite level Boomer nimbyism.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,009

    How come we're not talking about the car that caught fire in Luton any more? For some reason that whole discussion suddenly went dead. Weird.

    We only have finite energy and attention. We've now moved on to a witch-hunt for people and organisations who aren't displaying sufficiently morose or correctly worded expressions of emotion over events in the Levant.

    And some baffling shit about London Underground tickets or something.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,015

    Ukraine: that Russian push on Avdiivka is coming at a mighty cost, so far for little gain.

    Todays casualty numbers: 1,030 military personnel, 26 tanks, 49 armoured fighting vehicles, 44 artillery. That's 3,000 troops lost in 3 days. If this was being driven by the military - well, it wouldn't have been started as these levels of losses would have been obvious. Somone in the Kremlin - someone running for re-election in March - has said he needs a win before winter closes the campaign. A win to put before the voters. Regardless of cost.

    And regardless of the weaknesses it might cause elsewhere along the line, where they have robbed Peter to pay Paul. Especially when the F-16s and ATACMS come out to play to exploit those weaknesses.

    yanks are dragging their feet big time or it could have been over by now
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122
    Nigelb said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    The last square inch is going to be pretty crowded.
    Hence the need for safe havens.

    Or its going to get pretty bloody but hopefully somewhere that claims to support Palestinians has seen some humanity and offers refuge by then.
    Do you think the UK should provide a safe haven for everyone from the Gaza Strip who say they are civilians, or just other countries?
    Other countries.

    We stand with Israel.

    Let those who stand with Palestine take them.
    You're saying that our standing with Israel exempts us from any responsibility for the couple of million refugees that you have been arguing should leave Gaza ?

    Interesting argument.
    If the Gazans leave Gaza they won't be going back. I think everyone knows this.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,232

    I know it is a few days on, but I am still agog at the news that our prisons are so full that judges have been told that they cannot sentence rapists and other serious offenders.

    You want an example of Broken Britain, of the so-called party of law and order failing to make anything work, and here it is. The country is crumbling around us and everyone can see it. And yet the happy few still insist that we must vote Tory because Labour would ruin things.

    Open your eyes. Its ruined already.

    Alex Chalk explained yesterday this was the fault of the New Labour Government.

    Liam Byrne's note has let the Tories off the hook for 13 years and counting.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667

    How come we're not talking about the car that caught fire in Luton any more? For some reason that whole discussion suddenly went dead. Weird.

    An opportunity lost for another revolution in soft furnishings moment.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,996
    Fishing said:

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    Sandpit said:

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    He thinks he can make more money from people who can’t vote him out.
    That's exactly it. Currently, if we go to London (which we do a few times a year), we just get a train ticket plus travelcard - often a family ticket (which is cheapest can vary from which station we travel from). It's really easy.

    I've no idea what we do now - especially as our son, who is nine, does not have an Oystercard, mobile, or bank card. Will we have to get him an Oystercard and keep money on it just in case we want to travel to London?
    Work be long b4 pensioner bus passes are withdrawn in london
    Good riddance.

    It's always been absurd that multi-millionaire pensioners travel for free while poor workers pay full price and students only get 30% off. I have some relatives in that category, both of whom admit its ridiculous.
    And what about pensioners on the state pension who have very little disposable income. Not all pensioners are multi millionaires.
    The point is, it's completely the wrong criterion to choose, since whether you are a pensioner or not is a terrible predictor of your wealth, or the extent to which you travel. Some pensioners need free travel, some don't - some are wealthy, some aren't, some travel every day and some never travel. It is a lousy proxy for those variables. Some blue-eyed people need free travel, some don't, but we don't give blue-eyed people free travel.

    Giving specific discounts is a stupid way to help particular groups, because the amount they use the service differs widely. Much better to spend the money on cash handouts directly rather than tie it to specific consumption of a service, which they may or may not use. But it's a popular gimmick for politicians, so of course we're stuck with it for a while.
    Free travel and the fuel allowance for pensioners should be taxed. Poor pensioners will pay nothing extra. Wealthy ones will pay up to 45% back. And apply NI to pensioners while you're at it. Again poorer pensioners will pay nothing extra. Simple.
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    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    And when (if) those 1.1 million have left and Israel has occupied Gaza City, will it withdraw and let them go back?
    The Palestinians won't believe so, as since 1948 that's not tended to be the case.
    Which is of course one of the reasons why 'Egypt should just take them all' isn't likely to be an easy solution.

    It might seem odd to us to be so passionately attached to somewhere like Gaza, but many are.
    There won't be anything much left in Gaza to be attached to. Hamas are not these poor downtrodden innocents imprisoned by the beastly Jew (ssshhhhh don't mention Egypt). The are genocidal terrorist psychopaths.

    Like ISIS before them they need to be eradicated. That means killing most of them. Because they aren't going to just give up or reform - like Jake and Ellwood they are on a Mission from God. They have no interest in the innocents in Gaza other than using them as human shields. And as for Egypt and the rest - they have no interest in the civilians either. They are political pawns left to suffer *by them* for regional points scoring.,

    This has to end. The status quo can't be sustained, there is no viable status quo ante to wind the clock back to. We need a long-term solution for the diaspora issue and with respect to Egypt and Jordan and Syria their mission of leaving people in multi-generational refugee camps as Someone Else's Problem is also over.

    Israel has demonstrated in recent years that it wants diplomatic solutions. Reaching out to make all kinds of previously unlikely alliances. But if diplomacy doesn't work, it will impose a settlement militarily. And as wounded as it is, and as armed as it is, woe betide any of the powers around it who think they still get to disrupt this.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    How do you shift 1.1 million people in 24 hours?
    I don' know why you bother. He's obviously a robot. Just a really unpleasant one
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122
    Nigelb said:

    How come we're not talking about the car that caught fire in Luton any more? For some reason that whole discussion suddenly went dead. Weird.

    An opportunity lost for another revolution in soft furnishings moment.
    That's the kind of revolution that would be televised.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    Cookie said:

    Penddu2 said:

    So we are finally at the knockout stages of the RWC - and my predictions below are in order of predictability.....

    The most predictable game is Wales Argentina. While Argentina started the tournament poorly, they have gradually improved and should provide Wales with stiff competion. But Wales have had a strong performance so far, and apart from their traditional 60 minute wobble have generally been dominant in their matches. Wales by +10.

    France v South Africa. This was my original prediction for the final, but Ireland spoilt that, and this game will be very close. France looked very good in their New Zealand match but have not been tested since. South Africa have had two tough games and will be fully prepared for this match. Home advantage will help and I predict France by +6

    Ireland v New Zealand. Ireland are fully deserving of their #1 world ranking, and are almost perfect in every aspect of the game. New Zealand have had a couple of poor games (by their standards) but will have done their homework on Ireland. New Zealand could continue Ireland's quarter final curse, but I predict Ireland to win by +3.

    England v Fiji. This game is very difficult to predict, and very dependent on which teams turn up. England have not impressed but seem to have developed a simple game plan - this worked well against Argentina but not so much against Samoa. Fiji played well against Wales and Australia but were poor against Portugal. I predict this game will follow a similar pattern to the Wales Fiji game - with England cruising to an early lead based on their kicking, but with Fiji countering with some punching tries. My prediction is Fiji by +6 but this could equally be England by +6.

    Agree with all of that. I've been slightly unimpressed with South Africa - I think their refusal to select a proper flyhalf or hooker will do for them.
    The way to beat Fiji is to play fast and creative rugby, like Portugal did. England have some creative players but seem reluctant to use them. Farrell is certainly not a bad player but England never play creatively when he is at flyhalf. Can't see England winning.
    Frankly with so dismal a policy of coaching and selection, they deserve to lose.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,062
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    And when (if) those 1.1 million have left and Israel has occupied Gaza City, will it withdraw and let them go back?
    I suspect yes.

    They want to go into the rats* nest and destroy every tunnel and bunker. And you can’t do that with civilians around

    * Hamas just to be clear

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    maxhmaxh Posts: 826
    edited October 2023
    1,500 Palestinians dead.
    1,200 Israelis dead.
    1.1 million Palestinians forcibly displaced if Israel’s warning is heeded.
    400,000 already displaced.
    6000 bombs dropped on Gaza.
    What is it about the current situation that makes a civilian Israeli life worth more than a civilian Palestinian one to justify such numbers?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,880
    Foxy said:

    I know it is a few days on, but I am still agog at the news that our prisons are so full that judges have been told that they cannot sentence rapists and other serious offenders.

    You want an example of Broken Britain, of the so-called party of law and order failing to make anything work, and here it is. The country is crumbling around us and everyone can see it. And yet the happy few still insist that we must vote Tory because Labour would ruin things.

    Open your eyes. Its ruined already.

    NHS waiting list hit a new all time high in England yesterday. It barely made the news. This is the country we live in now.

    If you don't like it move to Gaza
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,654
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    And when (if) those 1.1 million have left and Israel has occupied Gaza City, will it withdraw and let them go back?
    The Palestinians won't believe so, as since 1948 that's not tended to be the case.
    Which is of course one of the reasons why 'Egypt should just take them all' isn't likely to be an easy solution.

    It might seem odd to us to be so passionately attached to somewhere like Gaza, but many are.
    Short term I think I can see the Israeli tactic as being to create a buffer zone, like the Golan heights, to push any military activity far enough away from the Israeli border that they can't launch rockets or stage future incursions. Presumably the plan is to occupy Gaza city, not necessarily bother with the more rural bits to the South, and station a permanent military presence there. Frankly speaking I can't see any alternative strategy that would ensure security in the South.

    Yes I expect Gazans may see this as a precursor to settlers moving in. Hopefully not. Pretty risky business if you're one of those settlers too.

    If they do occupy half of Gaza then the question is do we see a flow of Gazans from North to South, to get out of the way of the occupiers, or a flow in the opposite direction if living conditions are better in the occupied zone.
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    Ukraine: that Russian push on Avdiivka is coming at a mighty cost, so far for little gain.

    Todays casualty numbers: 1,030 military personnel, 26 tanks, 49 armoured fighting vehicles, 44 artillery. That's 3,000 troops lost in 3 days. If this was being driven by the military - well, it wouldn't have been started as these levels of losses would have been obvious. Somone in the Kremlin - someone running for re-election in March - has said he needs a win before winter closes the campaign. A win to put before the voters. Regardless of cost.

    And regardless of the weaknesses it might cause elsewhere along the line, where they have robbed Peter to pay Paul. Especially when the F-16s and ATACMS come out to play to exploit those weaknesses.

    Bloody Hamas and Israel, distracting us from Ukraine!
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,330
    World War 3 it is, then
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,205

    Thanks to whoever linked to the video about TfL stopping one-day travelcards next year.

    With this and the Ulez extension, it really does seem as though Khan wants to stop visitors from those weird places called "out of London".

    Mandated by that evil Tory Mr Grant Shapps...
    Not the ULEZ expansion

    https://fullfact.org/online/ulez-expansion-letter/
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    An eye for an eye and the whole world should've gone to Specsavers!
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    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    And when (if) those 1.1 million have left and Israel has occupied Gaza City, will it withdraw and let them go back?
    The Palestinians won't believe so, as since 1948 that's not tended to be the case.
    Which is of course one of the reasons why 'Egypt should just take them all' isn't likely to be an easy solution.

    It might seem odd to us to be so passionately attached to somewhere like Gaza, but many are.
    There won't be anything much left in Gaza to be attached to. Hamas are not these poor downtrodden innocents imprisoned by the beastly Jew (ssshhhhh don't mention Egypt). The are genocidal terrorist psychopaths.

    Like ISIS before them they need to be eradicated. That means killing most of them. Because they aren't going to just give up or reform - like Jake and Ellwood they are on a Mission from God. They have no interest in the innocents in Gaza other than using them as human shields. And as for Egypt and the rest - they have no interest in the civilians either. They are political pawns left to suffer *by them* for regional points scoring.,

    This has to end. The status quo can't be sustained, there is no viable status quo ante to wind the clock back to. We need a long-term solution for the diaspora issue and with respect to Egypt and Jordan and Syria their mission of leaving people in multi-generational refugee camps as Someone Else's Problem is also over.

    Israel has demonstrated in recent years that it wants diplomatic solutions. Reaching out to make all kinds of previously unlikely alliances. But if diplomacy doesn't work, it will impose a settlement militarily. And as wounded as it is, and as armed as it is, woe betide any of the powers around it who think they still get to disrupt this.
    Israel would like to kill everyone in Hamas but is happy enough to see them flee Gaza along with all the other Palestinians. You can see why some are cynical about Israel's primary aim. You are right that decades-old refugee camps ought to be unacceptable but in practice these were more like thriving cities until a few days ago when the Israeli air force started flattening the place.
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    Nigelb said:

    How come we're not talking about the car that caught fire in Luton any more? For some reason that whole discussion suddenly went dead. Weird.

    An opportunity lost for another revolution in soft furnishings moment.
    I've done a video on it (live at 4pm). Here's what happened:
    Diesel Range Rover catches fire on the way into the car park. Is abandoned in the middle of a floor and burns fiercely.
    Other cars catch fire as the heat is contained by the structure and amplified.
    Fire is so intense that the structure partially collapses.
    Doesn't look to have been as big a fire as Liverpool, but looks very similar.

    Then we have the social media / right wing media response.

    EV. EV. EV. EV. Khan and Starmer and Net Zero.

    Then video is released showing the back of the RR Sport burning. Some tosser says its an iPace and puts up a comparison pic showing it isn't. Now its iPace Pace iPace. Then someone accepts its a Range Rover.

    But its a HYBRID ONE. With the flames out from its Lion battery. Hybrid Hybrid Hybrid. Then video is released showing the car burning from the front. With a number plate. Its a diesel. A 2014 diesel. With zero hybrid models available for that generation of RRS.

    At which point the hysteria gets worse. Its a coverup. #fakenews makes an appearance, The BBC and MSM and even the Fire Brigade are lying.

    There were still fresh tweets going out late yesterday from this lot. Desperate to maintain the EV connection to stop NetZero/Starmer/Khan. Small dick syndrome in full effect.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,205

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Foxy said:
    Generous of Israel to give such a clear warning to Gazans, which of course is also a warning to Hamas.

    Glad that Israel is seeking to maintain its humanity and do it's level best to minimise civilian casualties as it seeks to eradicate Hamas.

    It needs to do the same across every square inch of Gaza until Hamas is destroyed but trying not to kill civilians.

    Hopefully the rest of the world, especially the world that claims to support Palestinians, steps up to the plate and offers safe haven for civilians, as happens in other such conflicts, before Israel needs to give the same warning to the Southern half of Gaza.
    The last square inch is going to be pretty crowded.
    Hence the need for safe havens.

    Or its going to get pretty bloody but hopefully somewhere that claims to support Palestinians has seen some humanity and offers refuge by then.
    Do you think the UK should provide a safe haven for everyone from the Gaza Strip who say they are civilians, or just other countries?
    Other countries.

    We stand with Israel.

    Let those who stand with Palestine take them.
    You are a total plonker Philip Thomson
    I suspect you might be in hot water for doxxing a former Liverpool and England defender, but if your point refers to @BartholomewRoberts you are not wrong.
    Absolutely agree with this. He is a complete plonker over this. A relic of the Neocon mindset that infested politics in tbe Blair-Bush era. When you see some of the drivel he spouts on this and Ukraine it is no wonder he does not want to post under his real name. However he should not be doxxed.

    As for being in trouble. Why should he be. How many people here doxx Leon ? Before he was banned (not for doxxing) resident Anglophobe Stuart Dickson doxxed him on a daily basis. Never a murmur for that
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    maxhmaxh Posts: 826

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    And when (if) those 1.1 million have left and Israel has occupied Gaza City, will it withdraw and let them go back?
    The Palestinians won't believe so, as since 1948 that's not tended to be the case.
    Which is of course one of the reasons why 'Egypt should just take them all' isn't likely to be an easy solution.

    It might seem odd to us to be so passionately attached to somewhere like Gaza, but many are.
    There won't be anything much left in Gaza to be attached to. Hamas are not these poor downtrodden innocents imprisoned by the beastly Jew (ssshhhhh don't mention Egypt). The are genocidal terrorist psychopaths.

    Like ISIS before them they need to be eradicated. That means killing most of them. Because they aren't going to just give up or reform - like Jake and Ellwood they are on a Mission from God. They have no interest in the innocents in Gaza other than using them as human shields. And as for Egypt and the rest - they have no interest in the civilians either. They are political pawns left to suffer *by them* for regional points scoring.,

    This has to end. The status quo can't be sustained, there is no viable status quo ante to wind the clock back to. We need a long-term solution for the diaspora issue and with respect to Egypt and Jordan and Syria their mission of leaving people in multi-generational refugee camps as Someone Else's Problem is also over.

    Israel has demonstrated in recent years that it wants diplomatic solutions. Reaching out to make all kinds of previously unlikely alliances. But if diplomacy doesn't work, it will impose a settlement militarily. And as wounded as it is, and as armed as it is, woe betide any of the powers around it who think they still get to disrupt this.
    Genuine, not loaded question.
    Why is your and others’ entirely appropriate horror at the actions of Hamas not matched by a horror of indiscriminate bombing and killing of civilians in Gaza?
    I can think of a few reasons, and am trying to understand whether my moral equivalence between a civilian Palestinian death and a civilian Israeli one is mistaken.
    How do you justify this to yourself? (Again, this sounds loaded, it isn’t).
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,232

    @PBModerator please can you delete the doxxing post? It's been made explicitly clear that doxxing is against the rules.

    Want to have a healthy disagreement, fine, don't doxx.

    Mentioning a name that everyone on here associates with you seems a rather mild breach of the rules compared to your advocacy of genocide in Gaza.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,205

    @PBModerator please can you delete the doxxing post? It's been made explicitly clear that doxxing is against the rules.

    Want to have a healthy disagreement, fine, don't doxx.

    Agree, however no one should be in trouble over this. Leon is doxxed daily and there are no reprisals.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,704
    TimS said:

    How come we're not talking about the car that caught fire in Luton any more? For some reason that whole discussion suddenly went dead. Weird.

    I'm quite relieved it was a short lived story as I'm flying out from Luton airport tomorrow morning.
    There was some idle speculation it was started by an electric car; electric cars were surely involved in the full blaze.

    Of course, a tank full of 60 or 70 litres of petrol is hardly a zero fire-risk but I do wonder whether the fire risks from lithium batteries is being fully recognised yet.
This discussion has been closed.