Tories take 4% lead in the “Blue Wall” – politicalbetting.com

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

That is articulate and potent

Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.

My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

Crossrail is brilliant. And it is reviving Oxford Street. The God awful candy store next to Bond Street station has closed, and HMV is soon to return to the building.

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).

Andy_JS said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).

Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.

Eabhal said:

Andy_JS said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).

Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.

...probably by removing the hard shoulder.

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.

Probably a danger in overanalysing a conference poll. Let’s see where we are in a fortnight.

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

Build and they will come
Build and they will come
Build and they will come

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/commuters-face-years-of-chaos-on-the-elizabeth-line-as-network-rail-plans-engineering-works-on-tfl-route-until-2029-following-12-months-of-strikes-and-rising-fares-after-opening-to-fanfare-from-sadiq-khan/ar-AA1i1x1V

Commuters face YEARS of chaos on the Elizabeth line as Network Rail plans engineering works on TfL route until 2029 - following 12 months of strikes and rising fares after opening to fanfare from Sadiq Khan

viewcode said:

Is this @MoonRabbit 's Dutch Salute? Give it a few more polls to settle down, methinks.

Er... Labour's lead is up 2% from last week's R&W (16% v 14%) It's all MOE stuff though, shirley?

TimS said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

Build and they will come
Build and they will come
Build and they will come

The Humber Bridge and M6 Toll say hello.

Eabhal said:

Andy_JS said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).

Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.

Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

We should get new motorways.

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.

I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?

Not that I know of, save for Brent Cross West station, opening December.

On topic: No, Starmer does

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

Andy_JS said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).

Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.

Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

We should get new motorways.

Only you could look at the extraordinary success of Crossrail and the subsequent economic growth in those areas served by it and think:

"Warrington would be Singapore with one extra motorway"

Cookie said:

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

How can they justify cancelling HS2 because "travel patterns have changed", when the change is that DOUBLE the number of people are using Crossrail????!!!

I'm entirely on your side, but it is true that travel patterns have changed. Trips for commuting and business are down and trips for leisure and 'other' are up.
Which actually is great if you're trying to run a railway. Commuters are a pain in the arse. They all want to travel in the same direction at the same time. Leisure travellers spread themselves out, allowing you to nake much more efficient use of yoir assets.

Yes, true. Hence ScotRail getting rid of peak tickets and putting longer trains in at the weekend. People are pivoting to using public transport to boost the economy, not as a unnecessary time and financial cost for getting to work.

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

How can they justify cancelling HS2 because "travel patterns have changed", when the change is that DOUBLE the number of people are using Crossrail????!!!

You won't hear an argument from me

I would never have built HS2 as it was spec'd. We don't need 400kph for fuck's sake. England is tiny. We just need more capacity and bigger trains, and we need a Crossrail across the north, connecting all the major northern cities like the Liz Line. I am convinced that would add squillions to our GDP

Instead a combo of rail geeks who wanted the best fastest rail conceivable, NIMBYs, idiots, nerds, spads, and cretinous MPs have contrived to nearly fuck it all up

I hope that Kir Royale at least builds the Northern Power rail. Just do it!

Really we need to be 30% clear in the 'Blue Wall'. Not that I have ever subscribed to the 'Blue Wall' or 'Red Wall' definitions, each constituency is different.

Looks like LAB overall soon, maybe with just a small majority 1964 style.

Andy_JS said:

The Gaza Strip is densely populated but not as much as "Inner London".

Inner London: area = 123 sq mi, pop = 3.4m
Gaza Strip: area = 141 sq mi, pop = 2.4m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_London
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

A quick look at the Gaza strip on Google maps satellite will show it is indeed very built up - but there are also large numbers of fields and orchards, and suburban neighbourhoods with large gardens. From the news, you would think it like a broke manhattan with no central park.

Eabhal said:

On topic: No, Starmer does

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

Andy_JS said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).

Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.

Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

We should get new motorways.

Only you could look at the extraordinary success of Crossrail and the subsequent economic growth in those areas served by it and think:

"Warrington would be Singapore with one extra motorway"

Crossrail is fine for those who want to use it, but its not an alternative for everyone. Not everyone wants to live in an overcrowded city where people can't afford their own homes.

Warrington is a fantastic place to live as it has not one but three motorways. The M62 across the north, the M6 across the East, the M56 across the South. Plus of course Warrington Central heading to Liverpool and Manchester, and Warrington Bank Quay heading express to London or Edinburgh too, if you're that way inclined.

The rest of the North should have the same opportunities.

Though if it were up to me one other motorway (I've mentioned many others before) I'd build is an M59 in the West, going at least from the M56, up North to the East of Runcorn, across the Mersey, north between West Warrington and Runcorn, continuing north past Saint Helens, then NW past Skelmersdale, across the Ribble and up to the M55.

The fact that there'd then be an effective Ring Road using the 4 motorways is an incidental bonus.

Labour could build some of its promised new towns off a new motorway, win/win.

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

That is articulate and potent

Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.

My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality

He really isn't. He's just generally been better at hiding the nastier side of his politics than some, well until Corbyn came along. If only there were someone who were the things you say. Jones rose in the media as this bright young righteous thing, people largely ignored that he was sympathetic to some of the views of the crackpot section of the left, because he was too good to be true, and those things were irrelevant or very much on the 'right' side. It didn't matter much that he had a history of making dodgy edits to Israel-related Wikipedia pages, and would inevitably write the same 'Hamas is bad but when you think about it Israel is worse' article whenever the Middle East flared up. Or that he went out of his way to praise the Venezuelan Maduro regime when the first cracks started to appear. But he was part of the new wave of idealistic young writers, man? Who'd change the world by visiting Occupy, reading David Graeber, hobnobbing with Yanis Varoufakis and cosying up to Russell Brand. Then absolutely couldn't take it during the Corbyn years when at the moment of greatest triumph, people began putting those kind of views under greater scrutiny, taking them seriously, and began taking him and his new hero to task. Ended up saying "no one was killed by a wreath" and claiming the BBC were photoshopping Russian hats. It's always who he was, it was just when the hot issue of the day was being anti-austerity and it was easy to agree with him on that, and the wilder views of the far left were often seen as odd, harmless eccentricities by most rather than ones with consequences, it was easier to ignore his obnoxious side.

Eabhal said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

How can they justify cancelling HS2 because "travel patterns have changed", when the change is that DOUBLE the number of people are using Crossrail????!!!

Spanish High Speed Rail has drawn massive increases in passengers too.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/11/spains-high-speed-trains-arent-just-efficient-they-have-transformed-peoples-lives?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Even allowing that Spain has a lot more open space (though also has mountains), building 4000 km for the price of our 110 km is quite impressive.

Leon said:

Andy_JS said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).

Is the population THAT much smaller? Extend Northern Liz Line from Liverpool/Manc to Leeds/Sheffield and you have 10m people, surely, within striking distance

We need to weaponise our population density. We don't need high speed trains, our country is too small: we need dense, efficient, fast urban networks like Crossrail

Not really true - the faster trains on separate lines free up space for goods and slow trains as much rehearsed. And your statement is only true in the Liverpool-London core and not even that really, because travel one way takes a lot of time still. Make it Bristol to Newcastle, and it's still a long drag - one reason it is so annoying that HS didn't invovle a diagonal line crossing at Brum.

MJW said:

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

That is articulate and potent

Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.

My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality

He really isn't. He's just generally been better at hiding the nastier side of his politics than some, well until Corbyn came along. If only there were someone who were the things you say. Jones rose in the media as this bright young righteous thing, people largely ignored that he was sympathetic to some of the views of the crackpot section of the left, because he was too good to be true, and those things were irrelevant or very much on the 'right' side. It didn't matter much that he had a history of making dodgy edits to Israel-related Wikipedia pages, and would inevitably write the same 'Hamas is bad but when you think about it Israel is worse' article whenever the Middle East flared up. Or that he went out of his way to praise the Venezuelan Maduro regime when the first cracks started to appear. But he was part of the new wave of idealistic young writers, man? Who'd change the world by visiting Occupy, reading David Graeber, hobnobbing with Yanis Varoufakis and cosying up to Russell Brand. Then absolutely couldn't take it during the Corbyn years when at the moment of greatest triumph, people began putting those kind of views under greater scrutiny, taking them seriously, and began taking him and his new hero to task. Ended up saying "no one was killed by a wreath" and claiming the BBC were photoshopping Russian hats. It's always who he was, it was just when the hot issue of the day was being anti-austerity and it was easy to agree with him on that, and the wilder views of the far left were often seen as odd, harmless eccentricities by most rather than ones with consequences, it was easier to ignore his obnoxious side.

Minor correction: he was against Corbyn before he was for him.

biggles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

On topic: No, Starmer does

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

Andy_JS said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).

Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.

Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

We should get new motorways.

Only you could look at the extraordinary success of Crossrail and the subsequent economic growth in those areas served by it and think:

"Warrington would be Singapore with one extra motorway"

Crossrail is fine for those who want to use it, but its not an alternative for everyone. Not everyone wants to live in an overcrowded city where people can't afford their own homes.

Warrington is a fantastic place to live as it has not one but three motorways. The M62 across the north, the M6 across the East, the M56 across the South. Plus of course Warrington Central heading to Liverpool and Manchester, and Warrington Bank Quay heading express to London or Edinburgh too, if you're that way inclined.

The rest of the North should have the same opportunities.

Though if it were up to me one other motorway (I've mentioned many others before) I'd build is an M59 in the West, going at least from the M56, up North to the East of Runcorn, across the Mersey, north between West Warrington and Runcorn, continuing north past Saint Helens, then NW past Skelmersdale, across the Ribble and up to the M55.

The fact that there'd then be an effective Ring Road using the 4 motorways is an incidental bonus.

Labour could build some of its promised new towns off a new motorway, win/win.

Much (most?) of Crossrail isn’t in “overcrowded city”. Together with the Thameslink north/south link it basically makes “London” spread from Bedford to Brighton and Reading to deepest darkest Essex (or is it Kent?), taking in Heathrow, Gatwick and (yuck) Luton.

As @leon says, we need that linking Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds/Newcastle.

We do indeed.

As well as motorways, not instead of it.

We need both.

Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

Isn't that telling?

Eabhal said:

Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

Isn't that telling?

Just drive when pished, is presumably the local solution.

Sky still doing their weird sanitising...

"heavily armed men intent on killing and kidnapping"....you missing some rather crucial bits there mate, it was more than that, it was barbarism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Yj3yrg6Iw

Uncle Barty always makes Warrington sound bloody awful, soulless identikit housing surrounded by motorways. I have been to Warrington, it’s not that bad in real life. At least not the bit I visited.

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.

I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?

In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.

Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.

It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.

FrancisUrquhart said:

During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

Exterminate all the brutes.

FrancisUrquhart said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

The Mail has helpfully compiled a list of Lineker's controversial tweets and you'd be hard pressed to apply the label "world affairs" to any of them. Domestic politics on the other hand...

Gary Lineker won't be allowed to share his political views on social media while MOTD is on air under new BBC guidelines - but stars will be free to express opinions 'about issues that matter to them'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12570503/gary-lineker-bbc-stars-climate-change-opinions-social-media.html

He has been quite happy to talk about world affairs in the past e.g.

Gary Lineker has spoken up about the situation in Ukraine,
https://www.indy100.com/news/gary-lineker-russia-ukraine

Football star sparked fury after tweeting that killing of West Bank gunman Ahmed Daraghmeh was ‘awful’
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/bbc-hit-with-complaint-over-gary-lineker-tweet-about-killing-10UXjXnXqTRoy5kpKOIjoT

Now he can't even manage a "my heart goes out to the Jewish victims of terrorism"....and of course it isn't just him, it lots of the other usual loud mouth suspects on the tw@tters. They are obviously shit scared to appear to virtue signal support for something that their echo chamber might not be 100% onboard with.

So you've got one deleted tweet and one about a footballer. In any case, depending what is meant by "when MOTD is on air" he might be barred. But does "on air" mean an hour a week or the whole season?

FrancisUrquhart said:

The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

This is exposing the moral depravity of Gary Lineker?

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

Exterminate all the brutes.

It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.

MJW said:

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Leon said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

That is articulate and potent

Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.

My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality

He really isn't. He's just generally been better at hiding the nastier side of his politics than some, well until Corbyn came along. If only there were someone who were the things you say. Jones rose in the media as this bright young righteous thing, people largely ignored that he was sympathetic to some of the views of the crackpot section of the left, because he was too good to be true, and those things were irrelevant or very much on the 'right' side. It didn't matter much that he had a history of making dodgy edits to Israel-related Wikipedia pages, and would inevitably write the same 'Hamas is bad but when you think about it Israel is worse' article whenever the Middle East flared up. Or that he went out of his way to praise the Venezuelan Maduro regime when the first cracks started to appear. But he was part of the new wave of idealistic young writers, man? Who'd change the world by visiting Occupy, reading David Graeber, hobnobbing with Yanis Varoufakis and cosying up to Russell Brand. Then absolutely couldn't take it during the Corbyn years when at the moment of greatest triumph, people began putting those kind of views under greater scrutiny, taking them seriously, and began taking him and his new hero to task. Ended up saying "no one was killed by a wreath" and claiming the BBC were photoshopping Russian hats. It's always who he was, it was just when the hot issue of the day was being anti-austerity and it was easy to agree with him on that, and the wilder views of the far left were often seen as odd, harmless eccentricities by most rather than ones with consequences, it was easier to ignore his obnoxious side.

His books are really poor as well, or at least the two I’ve tried to plough through (Chavs and The Establishment).

Eabhal said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Eabhal said:

Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

Isn't that telling?

If the demand was there, it wouldn't take any construction to operate later trains.

From Reddit:

I grew up in Warrington. It’s a dead end town for dead end people. Harsh but (mostly) true. How about a suburb in north Manchester / greater Manchester? Somewhere near the metro, rather than the trains perhaps?

All sorts of idiots on Reddit.

stodge said:

Evening all

On topic - given its Redfield & Wilton with their curious sub samples, probably not.

It's still a 12.5% swing to Labour and a 6% swing to the LDs.

Let's see if this is more than Conference Season "noise" in a fortnight.

My first thoughts as well. 12.5% swing. Wow.

Oblivion if country-wide surely???

FT

Labour admit their 28 billion green annual spend will not be met before the end of the next Parliament

https://news.sky.com/story/sundays-national-newspaper-front-pages-12427754?postid=6567296#liveblog-body

Carnyx said:

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.

I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?

In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.

Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.

It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.

Electrification? Greenford, Henley, Marlow, and Windsor Central are all EAST of Reading!

Anabobazina said:

Uncle Barty always makes Warrington sound bloody awful, soulless identikit housing surrounded by motorways. I have been to Warrington, it’s not that bad in real life. At least not the bit I visited.

Hmm, a look at TripAdvisor throws up cultural activities like Zombie Scavenger Hunts (not sure if the undead are doinf the scavenging or being eaten), though there is a nice looking trad municipal museum with mummy and paintings and dino and all. Okay. Walton Hall is No 1 Best Thing to Do in Warrington, and the Museum is No 3., but it 's a bit worrying that Gullivers World Theme Park is no 2 and an alpaca farm is no 4. Really trad Lanc culture that, of a part with parkin and faggot and so on. It thins out a bit later, No 105 being a bcobblestoned street, which at least doesn't take long to inspect.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

Exterminate all the brutes.

It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.

Given what Biden's been saying I think there's no prospect of him stopping Israel from wiping out Hamas.

glw said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

Exterminate all the brutes.

It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.

Given what Biden's been saying I think there's no prospect of him stopping Israel from wiping out Hamas.

That was my take, but I know nought....but it should concern us all that then all the other players start getting involved.

londonpubman said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Carnyx said:

It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.

Electrification? Greenford, Henley, Marlow, and Windsor Central are all EAST of Reading!

Would have been a good idea to electrify these and to Oxford to eliminate local diesel working from Paddington

Total cost £2bn??

And then there's the Chiltern Main Line. Marylebone (main line), Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Sudbury Hill Harrow and Northolt Park are the only stations in Greater London not served by any electric trains or trams.

FrancisUrquhart said:

glw said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Foxy said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

Exterminate all the brutes.

It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.

Given what Biden's been saying I think there's no prospect of him stopping Israel from wiping out Hamas.

That was my take, but I know nought....but it should concern us all that then all the other players start getting involved.

It’s not a good time in the US electoral cycle for a US President notionally seeking re-election to urge restraint.

Carnyx said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Carnyx said:

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

rcs1000 said:

biggles said:

Leon said:

Eabhal said:

Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come

The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.

I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?

In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.

Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.

It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.

Electrification? Greenford, Henley, Marlow, and Windsor Central are all EAST of Reading!

Sorry, thought C|rossrail was leccy all the way to Reading Main.

Yes it is, BUT they missed electrifying the above BRANCH lines when they did the GWR main line.

rcs1000 said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Anabobazina said:

Uncle Barty always makes Warrington sound bloody awful, soulless identikit housing surrounded by motorways. I have been to Warrington, it’s not that bad in real life. At least not the bit I visited.

Only an idiot thinks that surrounded by motorways is a bad thing.

And the only reason houses are identikit in our current system is the planning system resulting in an oligopoly building estates en-bloc.

Look at Japan where planning permission isn't needed to build a home (or demolish an existing one and rebuild it to your desires) and they don't have identikit homes. Or a housing shortage.

I quite like motorways (freeways), but I'm not entirely convinced I want to be surrounded by them:

Why I advocate them being around towns, not buildings . . .

. . . unless anyone thought that building was a town? Is that all that Sir Keir Starmer meant when he promised new towns?