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Tories take 4% lead in the “Blue Wall” – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited October 2023 in General
imageTories take 4% lead in the “Blue Wall” – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    First like Labour
  • Options
    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    edited October 2023
    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,695
    The Gaza Strip is densely populated but not as much as "Inner London".

    Inner London: area = 123 sq mi, pop = 3.4m
    Gaza Strip: area = 141 sq mi, pop = 2.4m

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_London
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,302

    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
    My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

    The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

    I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,986
    "Should Starmer being to worry?"
    I'm off work, but see me afterwards anyways.
    Dear, dear.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,980
    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    Crossrail is brilliant. And it is reviving Oxford Street. The God awful candy store next to Bond Street station has closed, and HMV is soon to return to the building.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864
    Evening all :)

    On topic - given its Redfield & Wilton with their curious sub samples, probably not.

    It's still a 12.5% swing to Labour and a 6% swing to the LDs.

    Let's see if this is more than Conference Season "noise" in a fortnight.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,302
    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
  • Options
    Redfield & Wilton always sound like a firm of Jermyn Street shirt-makers. This must surely give them privileged access to Blue Wall opinion.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,695
    edited October 2023
    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,551
    There is no such thing as a trend against you that isn't a worry. So, yes, Sir K needs to think.

    However, a question from ignorance: The Blue Wall. Is this a set of seats in which the Tories come first, with a division between those where Labour and those where LD come second and are the challenger?

    If that is so then the figures mislead. The Tory 36 represents, a fortiori, the Tory support in each seat held by them, on average.

    The LD and Labour figures average together those seats where they are the challenger, and those where they are third, so failing to compare like with like.

    The real question is where do the figures go seat by seat in relation to (a) Tory and (b) the challenger party.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
    Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,688
    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
    Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.
    ...probably by removing the hard shoulder.
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    nico679nico679 Posts: 4,849
    I think Starmer made a mistake today with his comments around planning .

    He could have been more conciliatory in tone rather than suggesting he was going to just ignore local concerns.

    Telling people to like it or lump it I don’t thinks going to play well and he has gifted the Tories an attack line.

    And there’s a wider context here , Lib Dems in those Tory marginals need Labour to not come up with a policy that’s toxic to the Blue Wall .

    Otherwise you’ll get the “ we’d like to vote for you but can’t risk letting Starmer in “ response .

    The Lib Dems Electoral prospects are very much entwined with Starmer remaining non-threatening .
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    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,347
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,508
    Manhattan's population is now about 1.7 million. (It has been more than two million in the past.) The area is just under 23 square miles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,011
    Probably a danger in overanalysing a conference poll. Let’s see where we are in a fortnight.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,837
    Is this @MoonRabbit 's Dutch Salute? Give it a few more polls to settle down, methinks.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,650
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

    Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

    I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"
    Build and they will come
    Build and they will come
    Build and they will come
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,302

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    Crossrail is brilliant. And it is reviving Oxford Street. The God awful candy store next to Bond Street station has closed, and HMV is soon to return to the building.
    I an witnessing the same thing, and the prosperity spreads outwards. eg Camden is now sometimes so busy they have to ration access to the Tube via the gates, and this is on midweek afternoons, not weekends

    It's surely brilliant if you are a trader, it's annoying if you want to get somewhere, it is a conundrum for town planners, it is definitely better than the fate of many other cities, nationwide and worldwide, which are not recovering from Covid
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    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/commuters-face-years-of-chaos-on-the-elizabeth-line-as-network-rail-plans-engineering-works-on-tfl-route-until-2029-following-12-months-of-strikes-and-rising-fares-after-opening-to-fanfare-from-sadiq-khan/ar-AA1i1x1V

    Commuters face YEARS of chaos on the Elizabeth line as Network Rail plans engineering works on TfL route until 2029 - following 12 months of strikes and rising fares after opening to fanfare from Sadiq Khan
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,688
    viewcode said:

    Is this @MoonRabbit 's Dutch Salute? Give it a few more polls to settle down, methinks.

    Er... Labour's lead is up 2% from last week's R&W (16% v 14%) It's all MOE stuff though, shirley?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,215
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
    My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

    The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

    I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality
    An overhyped rancid misogynist who comes out with the sort of drearily predictable opinions always found in the Guardian.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

    Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

    I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"
    Build and they will come
    Build and they will come
    Build and they will come
    The Humber Bridge and M6 Toll say hello.
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
    Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.
    Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

    We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

    We should get new motorways.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,688

    viewcode said:

    Is this @MoonRabbit 's Dutch Salute? Give it a few more polls to settle down, methinks.

    Er... Labour's lead is up 2% from last week's R&W (16% v 14%) It's all MOE stuff though, shirley?
    Edit: Just spotted that the latest R&W has SNP down to 1% (!)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
    Not that I know of, save for Brent Cross West station, opening December.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,797
    FPT
    Leon said:

    darkage said:

    The one comment I would make is this: If Israel gets goaded in to a disproportionate response, ie one that involves the killing and starving of civilians, then the whole thing just becomes a fog of war situation, and people will not necessarily side with Israel the way they seem to be expected to. I would also say that I think there is a lot of quiet support for the Palestinian cause. I think there is a risk this situation will ultimately backfire enormously on Israel and weaken it.

    The Israelis don't care any more. Do you not understand this?

    It's like asking the Brits in 1940 to pay attention to editorials in the Los Angeles Times, it's absurd

    They have the manpower and the materiel, and they are entirely minded to end this, whatever the world says
    They can of course do it , but they can also destroy themselves in the process - ruin their international reputation, turn public opinion against them, etc.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    On topic: No, Starmer does

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
    Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.
    Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

    We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

    We should get new motorways.
    Only you could look at the extraordinary success of Crossrail and the subsequent economic growth in those areas served by it and think:

    "Warrington would be Singapore with one extra motorway"
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,347
    edited October 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
    In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

    It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    edited October 2023
    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

    Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

    I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

    How can they justify cancelling HS2 because "travel patterns have changed", when the change is that DOUBLE the number of people are using Crossrail????!!!
    I'm entirely on your side, but it is true that travel patterns have changed. Trips for commuting and business are down and trips for leisure and 'other' are up.
    Which actually is great if you're trying to run a railway. Commuters are a pain in the arse. They all want to travel in the same direction at the same time. Leisure travellers spread themselves out, allowing you to nake much more efficient use of yoir assets.
    Yes, true. Hence ScotRail getting rid of peak tickets and putting longer trains in at the weekend. People are pivoting to using public transport to boost the economy, not as a unnecessary time and financial cost for getting to work.
  • Options

    The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

    Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

    It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

    In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

    But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

    The Mail has helpfully compiled a list of Lineker's controversial tweets and you'd be hard pressed to apply the label "world affairs" to any of them. Domestic politics on the other hand...

    Gary Lineker won't be allowed to share his political views on social media while MOTD is on air under new BBC guidelines - but stars will be free to express opinions 'about issues that matter to them'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12570503/gary-lineker-bbc-stars-climate-change-opinions-social-media.html
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,302
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

    Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

    I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

    How can they justify cancelling HS2 because "travel patterns have changed", when the change is that DOUBLE the number of people are using Crossrail????!!!
    You won't hear an argument from me

    I would never have built HS2 as it was spec'd. We don't need 400kph for fuck's sake. England is tiny. We just need more capacity and bigger trains, and we need a Crossrail across the north, connecting all the major northern cities like the Liz Line. I am convinced that would add squillions to our GDP

    Instead a combo of rail geeks who wanted the best fastest rail conceivable, NIMBYs, idiots, nerds, spads, and cretinous MPs have contrived to nearly fuck it all up

    I hope that Kir Royale at least builds the Northern Power rail. Just do it!
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,772
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
    My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

    The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

    I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality
    An overhyped rancid misogynist who comes out with the sort of drearily predictable opinions always found in the Guardian.
    I don't think Leon writes for The Guardian.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,197
    Really we need to be 30% clear in the 'Blue Wall'. Not that I have ever subscribed to the 'Blue Wall' or 'Red Wall' definitions, each constituency is different.

    Looks like LAB overall soon, maybe with just a small majority 1964 style.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
    In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

    It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.
    Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

    And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,219
    Andy_JS said:

    The Gaza Strip is densely populated but not as much as "Inner London".

    Inner London: area = 123 sq mi, pop = 3.4m
    Gaza Strip: area = 141 sq mi, pop = 2.4m

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_London
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

    A quick look at the Gaza strip on Google maps satellite will show it is indeed very built up - but there are also large numbers of fields and orchards, and suburban neighbourhoods with large gardens. From the news, you would think it like a broke manhattan with no central park.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2023

    The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

    Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

    It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

    In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

    But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

    The Mail has helpfully compiled a list of Lineker's controversial tweets and you'd be hard pressed to apply the label "world affairs" to any of them. Domestic politics on the other hand...

    Gary Lineker won't be allowed to share his political views on social media while MOTD is on air under new BBC guidelines - but stars will be free to express opinions 'about issues that matter to them'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12570503/gary-lineker-bbc-stars-climate-change-opinions-social-media.html
    He has been quite happy to talk about world affairs in the past e.g.

    Gary Lineker has spoken up about the situation in Ukraine,
    https://www.indy100.com/news/gary-lineker-russia-ukraine

    Football star sparked fury after tweeting that killing of West Bank gunman Ahmed Daraghmeh was ‘awful’
    https://www.thejc.com/news/news/bbc-hit-with-complaint-over-gary-lineker-tweet-about-killing-10UXjXnXqTRoy5kpKOIjoT

    Now he can't even manage a "my heart goes out to the Jewish victims of terrorism"....and of course it isn't just him, it lots of the other usual loud mouth suspects on the tw@tters. They are obviously shit scared to appear to virtue signal support for something that their echo chamber might not be 100% onboard with.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,726
    edited October 2023
    Eabhal said:

    On topic: No, Starmer does

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
    Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.
    Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

    We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

    We should get new motorways.
    Only you could look at the extraordinary success of Crossrail and the subsequent economic growth in those areas served by it and think:

    "Warrington would be Singapore with one extra motorway"
    Crossrail is fine for those who want to use it, but its not an alternative for everyone. Not everyone wants to live in an overcrowded city where people can't afford their own homes.

    Warrington is a fantastic place to live as it has not one but three motorways. The M62 across the north, the M6 across the East, the M56 across the South. Plus of course Warrington Central heading to Liverpool and Manchester, and Warrington Bank Quay heading express to London or Edinburgh too, if you're that way inclined.

    The rest of the North should have the same opportunities.

    Though if it were up to me one other motorway (I've mentioned many others before) I'd build is an M59 in the West, going at least from the M56, up North to the East of Runcorn, across the Mersey, north between West Warrington and Runcorn, continuing north past Saint Helens, then NW past Skelmersdale, across the Ribble and up to the M55.

    The fact that there'd then be an effective Ring Road using the 4 motorways is an incidental bonus.

    Labour could build some of its promised new towns off a new motorway, win/win.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    We bought a place near Tottenham Court Road station know that Crossrail was coming. It makes getting to Heathrow (direct, 35 minutes) easy, and Gatwick (change at Farringdon, 45-50 minutes) dramatically easier.

    Come to mention it, it makes getting to Bedford to see OGH much easier too.

    I :heart: Elizabeth Line
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,356
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
    My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

    The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

    I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality
    He really isn't. He's just generally been better at hiding the nastier side of his politics than some, well until Corbyn came along. If only there were someone who were the things you say. Jones rose in the media as this bright young righteous thing, people largely ignored that he was sympathetic to some of the views of the crackpot section of the left, because he was too good to be true, and those things were irrelevant or very much on the 'right' side. It didn't matter much that he had a history of making dodgy edits to Israel-related Wikipedia pages, and would inevitably write the same 'Hamas is bad but when you think about it Israel is worse' article whenever the Middle East flared up. Or that he went out of his way to praise the Venezuelan Maduro regime when the first cracks started to appear. But he was part of the new wave of idealistic young writers, man? Who'd change the world by visiting Occupy, reading David Graeber, hobnobbing with Yanis Varoufakis and cosying up to Russell Brand. Then absolutely couldn't take it during the Corbyn years when at the moment of greatest triumph, people began putting those kind of views under greater scrutiny, taking them seriously, and began taking him and his new hero to task. Ended up saying "no one was killed by a wreath" and claiming the BBC were photoshopping Russian hats. It's always who he was, it was just when the hot issue of the day was being anti-austerity and it was easy to agree with him on that, and the wilder views of the far left were often seen as odd, harmless eccentricities by most rather than ones with consequences, it was easier to ignore his obnoxious side.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,694
    edited October 2023
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

    Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

    I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

    How can they justify cancelling HS2 because "travel patterns have changed", when the change is that DOUBLE the number of people are using Crossrail????!!!
    Spanish High Speed Rail has drawn massive increases in passengers too.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/11/spains-high-speed-trains-arent-just-efficient-they-have-transformed-peoples-lives?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Even allowing that Spain has a lot more open space (though also has mountains), building 4000 km for the price of our 110 km is quite impressive.
  • Options
    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
    Is the population THAT much smaller? Extend Northern Liz Line from Liverpool/Manc to Leeds/Sheffield and you have 10m people, surely, within striking distance

    We need to weaponise our population density. We don't need high speed trains, our country is too small: we need dense, efficient, fast urban networks like Crossrail
    Not really true - the faster trains on separate lines free up space for goods and slow trains as much rehearsed. And your statement is only true in the Liverpool-London core and not even that really, because travel one way takes a lot of time still. Make it Bristol to Newcastle, and it's still a long drag - one reason it is so annoying that HS didn't invovle a diagonal line crossing at Brum.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,347
    edited October 2023

    Eabhal said:

    On topic: No, Starmer does

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
    Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.
    Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

    We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

    We should get new motorways.
    Only you could look at the extraordinary success of Crossrail and the subsequent economic growth in those areas served by it and think:

    "Warrington would be Singapore with one extra motorway"
    Crossrail is fine for those who want to use it, but its not an alternative for everyone. Not everyone wants to live in an overcrowded city where people can't afford their own homes.

    Warrington is a fantastic place to live as it has not one but three motorways. The M62 across the north, the M6 across the East, the M56 across the South. Plus of course Warrington Central heading to Liverpool and Manchester, and Warrington Bank Quay heading express to London or Edinburgh too, if you're that way inclined.

    The rest of the North should have the same opportunities.

    Though if it were up to me one other motorway (I've mentioned many others before) I'd build is an M59 in the West, going at least from the M56, up North to the East of Runcorn, across the Mersey, north between West Warrington and Runcorn, continuing north past Saint Helens, then NW past Skelmersdale, across the Ribble and up to the M55.

    The fact that there'd then be an effective Ring Road using the 4 motorways is an incidental bonus.

    Labour could build some of its promised new towns off a new motorway, win/win.
    Much (most?) of Crossrail isn’t in an “overcrowded city”. Together with the Thameslink north/south link it basically makes “London” spread from Bedford to Brighton and Reading to deepest darkest Essex (or is it Kent?), taking in Heathrow, Gatwick and (yuck) Luton. Oh and Thameslink for one runs all night so supports London’s nightlife.

    As @leon says, we need that linking Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds/Newcastle.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,219
    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
    My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

    The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

    I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality
    He really isn't. He's just generally been better at hiding the nastier side of his politics than some, well until Corbyn came along. If only there were someone who were the things you say. Jones rose in the media as this bright young righteous thing, people largely ignored that he was sympathetic to some of the views of the crackpot section of the left, because he was too good to be true, and those things were irrelevant or very much on the 'right' side. It didn't matter much that he had a history of making dodgy edits to Israel-related Wikipedia pages, and would inevitably write the same 'Hamas is bad but when you think about it Israel is worse' article whenever the Middle East flared up. Or that he went out of his way to praise the Venezuelan Maduro regime when the first cracks started to appear. But he was part of the new wave of idealistic young writers, man? Who'd change the world by visiting Occupy, reading David Graeber, hobnobbing with Yanis Varoufakis and cosying up to Russell Brand. Then absolutely couldn't take it during the Corbyn years when at the moment of greatest triumph, people began putting those kind of views under greater scrutiny, taking them seriously, and began taking him and his new hero to task. Ended up saying "no one was killed by a wreath" and claiming the BBC were photoshopping Russian hats. It's always who he was, it was just when the hot issue of the day was being anti-austerity and it was easy to agree with him on that, and the wilder views of the far left were often seen as odd, harmless eccentricities by most rather than ones with consequences, it was easier to ignore his obnoxious side.
    Minor correction: he was against Corbyn before he was for him.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    Some really good comments today.
  • Options
    biggles said:

    Eabhal said:

    On topic: No, Starmer does

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    A crossrail between Liverpool and Manchester would probably be just as popular as the London one (taking the smaller population into account).
    Of course. But the north of England will get an extra lane on a motorway somewhere.
    Yes, absurdly pointless investment.

    We shouldn't get new lanes on pre-existing motorways, especially from removing hard shoulders.

    We should get new motorways.
    Only you could look at the extraordinary success of Crossrail and the subsequent economic growth in those areas served by it and think:

    "Warrington would be Singapore with one extra motorway"
    Crossrail is fine for those who want to use it, but its not an alternative for everyone. Not everyone wants to live in an overcrowded city where people can't afford their own homes.

    Warrington is a fantastic place to live as it has not one but three motorways. The M62 across the north, the M6 across the East, the M56 across the South. Plus of course Warrington Central heading to Liverpool and Manchester, and Warrington Bank Quay heading express to London or Edinburgh too, if you're that way inclined.

    The rest of the North should have the same opportunities.

    Though if it were up to me one other motorway (I've mentioned many others before) I'd build is an M59 in the West, going at least from the M56, up North to the East of Runcorn, across the Mersey, north between West Warrington and Runcorn, continuing north past Saint Helens, then NW past Skelmersdale, across the Ribble and up to the M55.

    The fact that there'd then be an effective Ring Road using the 4 motorways is an incidental bonus.

    Labour could build some of its promised new towns off a new motorway, win/win.
    Much (most?) of Crossrail isn’t in “overcrowded city”. Together with the Thameslink north/south link it basically makes “London” spread from Bedford to Brighton and Reading to deepest darkest Essex (or is it Kent?), taking in Heathrow, Gatwick and (yuck) Luton.

    As @leon says, we need that linking Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds/Newcastle.
    We do indeed.

    As well as motorways, not instead of it.

    We need both.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,694

    Really we need to be 30% clear in the 'Blue Wall'. Not that I have ever subscribed to the 'Blue Wall' or 'Red Wall' definitions, each constituency is different.

    Looks like LAB overall soon, maybe with just a small majority 1964 style.

    Well, let's see. We have only a week before we find out in Mid Beds what the Blue Wall thinks about the Conservatives.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    edited October 2023
    Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

    Isn't that telling?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,264
    TimS said:

    People talk loosely about orgies of violence but I think there’s a definite psychological state that, in certain circumstances, people enter into that is not dissimilar from orgiastic. I suspect that’s what happened at the weekend with a lot of the Hamas attackers. It seems to be what has happened in most genocides. There’s a danger it will afflict the IDF now too.

    The preconditions are: a strong, unshakeable belief in the rightness of the cause; the physical means to commit violent acts; a dehumanisation and resentment of the victim population (through long held grudges or more recent events); and the - I think there’s no other way to describe it - esprit de corps, the team spirit, that involves each participant giving tacit permission to their fellow combatants to indulge in ever more extreme acts of violence. In for a penny in for a pound.

    That’s how babies end up beheaded and women gang raped. I think it’s what happened in Bucha, Rwanda, and at small scale in every beating that happens daily in police stations around the world. It’s something I suspect is deeply embedded in our evolutionary makeup.

    The possibility of becoming a participant in this sort of orgy of violence haunts many of our worst nightmares, as much as the possibility of being a victim. We should be glad none of us will probably ever be in that sort of situation.

    With the Russian behaviour there is also vast quantities of alcohol.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801
    Eabhal said:

    Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

    Isn't that telling?

    Just drive when pished, is presumably the local solution.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,246
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
    My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

    The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

    I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality
    Yes there's quite a few people using the Hamas atrocity and Israeli response to indulge their inner prejudices.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2023
    Sky still doing their weird sanitising...

    "heavily armed men intent on killing and kidnapping"....you missing some rather crucial bits there mate, it was more than that, it was barbarism.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9Yj3yrg6Iw
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,197
    Foxy said:

    Really we need to be 30% clear in the 'Blue Wall'. Not that I have ever subscribed to the 'Blue Wall' or 'Red Wall' definitions, each constituency is different.

    Looks like LAB overall soon, maybe with just a small majority 1964 style.

    Well, let's see. We have only a week before we find out in Mid Beds what the Blue Wall thinks about the Conservatives.
    By elections are not GE but I know you will be celebrating when Keir gets the overall majority 👍
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

    Isn't that telling?

    If the demand was there, it wouldn't take any construction to operate later trains.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,011
    edited October 2023
    Uncle Barty always makes Warrington sound bloody awful, soulless identikit housing surrounded by motorways. I have been to Warrington, it’s not that bad in real life. At least not the bit I visited.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,219
    edited October 2023
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    It's approaching DOUBLE the patronage we expected. DOUBLE.

    Exactly the same story in Edinburgh for a £120 million tram extension. DOUBLE, and that's just on the existing bit of the line! And in a city with already brilliant public transport!

    I'm convinced that HS2 has been sabotaged by a pessimism bias for public transport. How can our government look at our rammed trains and not think - "huh, maybe people will leave the car at home if they have an alternative?"

    How can they justify cancelling HS2 because "travel patterns have changed", when the change is that DOUBLE the number of people are using Crossrail????!!!
    Spanish High Speed Rail has drawn massive increases in passengers too.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/11/spains-high-speed-trains-arent-just-efficient-they-have-transformed-peoples-lives?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Even allowing that Spain has a lot more open space (though also has mountains), building 4000 km for the price of our 110 km is quite impressive.
    They're great on the popular routes. Where they connect cities where the long travel time (and mountains!) historically meant little contact, the timetables can be poor.

    Seville to Granada has 4 direct trains a day in each direction, for example. Everything else involves a change. Hopefully this will improve with time.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801
    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
    In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

    It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.
    Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

    And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.
    It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    Eabhal said:

    Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

    Isn't that telling?

    Last trains from both directions arrive at Warrington Central at gone midnight:

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:WAC/2023-10-13/2350?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

    That seems reasonable to me.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,694

    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

    Exterminate all the brutes.

  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906

    Eabhal said:

    Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

    Isn't that telling?

    If the demand was there, it wouldn't take any construction to operate later trains.
    From Reddit:

    I grew up in Warrington. It’s a dead end town for dead end people. Harsh but (mostly) true. How about a suburb in north Manchester / greater Manchester? Somewhere near the metro, rather than the trains perhaps?
  • Options

    The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

    Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

    It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

    In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

    But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

    The Mail has helpfully compiled a list of Lineker's controversial tweets and you'd be hard pressed to apply the label "world affairs" to any of them. Domestic politics on the other hand...

    Gary Lineker won't be allowed to share his political views on social media while MOTD is on air under new BBC guidelines - but stars will be free to express opinions 'about issues that matter to them'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12570503/gary-lineker-bbc-stars-climate-change-opinions-social-media.html
    He has been quite happy to talk about world affairs in the past e.g.

    Gary Lineker has spoken up about the situation in Ukraine,
    https://www.indy100.com/news/gary-lineker-russia-ukraine

    Football star sparked fury after tweeting that killing of West Bank gunman Ahmed Daraghmeh was ‘awful’
    https://www.thejc.com/news/news/bbc-hit-with-complaint-over-gary-lineker-tweet-about-killing-10UXjXnXqTRoy5kpKOIjoT

    Now he can't even manage a "my heart goes out to the Jewish victims of terrorism"....and of course it isn't just him, it lots of the other usual loud mouth suspects on the tw@tters. They are obviously shit scared to appear to virtue signal support for something that their echo chamber might not be 100% onboard with.
    So you've got one deleted tweet and one about a footballer. In any case, depending what is meant by "when MOTD is on air" he might be barred. But does "on air" mean an hour a week or the whole season?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,688

    The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

    Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

    It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

    In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

    But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

    The Mail has helpfully compiled a list of Lineker's controversial tweets and you'd be hard pressed to apply the label "world affairs" to any of them. Domestic politics on the other hand...

    Gary Lineker won't be allowed to share his political views on social media while MOTD is on air under new BBC guidelines - but stars will be free to express opinions 'about issues that matter to them'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12570503/gary-lineker-bbc-stars-climate-change-opinions-social-media.html
    He has been quite happy to talk about world affairs in the past e.g.

    Gary Lineker has spoken up about the situation in Ukraine,
    https://www.indy100.com/news/gary-lineker-russia-ukraine

    Football star sparked fury after tweeting that killing of West Bank gunman Ahmed Daraghmeh was ‘awful’
    https://www.thejc.com/news/news/bbc-hit-with-complaint-over-gary-lineker-tweet-about-killing-10UXjXnXqTRoy5kpKOIjoT

    Now he can't even manage a "my heart goes out to the Jewish victims of terrorism"....and of course it isn't just him, it lots of the other usual loud mouth suspects on the tw@tters. They are obviously shit scared to appear to virtue signal support for something that their echo chamber might not be 100% onboard with.
    Hang-on, you want to see people virtue signalling now?

    Shades of poppy fascism, which now I think of it is just a week or two away.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,246

    The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

    Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

    It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

    In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

    But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

    This is exposing the moral depravity of Gary Lineker?
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,508
    edited October 2023
    Cyclefree - As you have pointed out, governments can fail on legal matters by doing too little. Here's an example of a protest against those failures that touches my heart:
    "In June 2022, a year after her auntie went missing, Seraphine Warren readied herself to take the first steps on a 2,400-mile walk from Arizona to Washington, D.C.

    It was 2:30 in the morning — the same time her aunt Ella Mae Begay had disappeared a year earlier. Warren, a 41-year-old Diné mother and ironworker, had packed a bag and told her boss she wasn’t coming back until her aunt was found. She carried with her photos of her aunt, a ribbon skirt and one of Begay’s weaved rugs with her."
    source: https://nativenewsonline.net/sovereignty/prayer-justice-and-remembrance-dine-woman-reclaims-the-past-as-she-walks-to-bring-her-missing-aunt-home

    The Navajo (Diné as they call themselves) are one of the larger US tribes, so they have their own police force, but it needs more resources. (The FBI handle more serious crimes on the reservation. It's not a popular assignment.)

    (Washington state has started to do a litle more for a smaller tribe, the Yakama, which has even worse problems, proportionately, than the Navajo. Their problems get about 1/100 of the news coverage of Orca problems -- at most.)
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2023
    Foxy said:

    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

    Exterminate all the brutes.

    It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

    Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

    I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.
  • Options

    Uncle Barty always makes Warrington sound bloody awful, soulless identikit housing surrounded by motorways. I have been to Warrington, it’s not that bad in real life. At least not the bit I visited.

    Only an idiot thinks that surrounded by motorways is a bad thing.

    And the only reason houses are identikit in our current system is the planning system resulting in an oligopoly building estates en-bloc.

    Look at Japan where planning permission isn't needed to build a home (or demolish an existing one and rebuild it to your desires) and they don't have identikit homes. Or a housing shortage.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,001
    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
    My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

    The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

    I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality
    He really isn't. He's just generally been better at hiding the nastier side of his politics than some, well until Corbyn came along. If only there were someone who were the things you say. Jones rose in the media as this bright young righteous thing, people largely ignored that he was sympathetic to some of the views of the crackpot section of the left, because he was too good to be true, and those things were irrelevant or very much on the 'right' side. It didn't matter much that he had a history of making dodgy edits to Israel-related Wikipedia pages, and would inevitably write the same 'Hamas is bad but when you think about it Israel is worse' article whenever the Middle East flared up. Or that he went out of his way to praise the Venezuelan Maduro regime when the first cracks started to appear. But he was part of the new wave of idealistic young writers, man? Who'd change the world by visiting Occupy, reading David Graeber, hobnobbing with Yanis Varoufakis and cosying up to Russell Brand. Then absolutely couldn't take it during the Corbyn years when at the moment of greatest triumph, people began putting those kind of views under greater scrutiny, taking them seriously, and began taking him and his new hero to task. Ended up saying "no one was killed by a wreath" and claiming the BBC were photoshopping Russian hats. It's always who he was, it was just when the hot issue of the day was being anti-austerity and it was easy to agree with him on that, and the wilder views of the far left were often seen as odd, harmless eccentricities by most rather than ones with consequences, it was easier to ignore his obnoxious side.
    His books are really poor as well, or at least the two I’ve tried to plough through (Chavs and The Establishment).
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

    Exterminate all the brutes.

    "We need to destroy Gaza to save it!"
  • Options
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Just had a look through some Warrington forums and the best thing about the place is the train station that lets you access Liverpool/Manchester. Sadly, the timing of the last train means you can't have a decent night out.

    Isn't that telling?

    If the demand was there, it wouldn't take any construction to operate later trains.
    From Reddit:

    I grew up in Warrington. It’s a dead end town for dead end people. Harsh but (mostly) true. How about a suburb in north Manchester / greater Manchester? Somewhere near the metro, rather than the trains perhaps?
    All sorts of idiots on Reddit.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,837
    edited October 2023
    For all those of you who like following the minutae of Government formation, the Wikipedia article for the 38th government of Israel is now up. Still under its old title but may change in future.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-seventh_government_of_Israel
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_cabinet

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,264
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    On topic - given its Redfield & Wilton with their curious sub samples, probably not.

    It's still a 12.5% swing to Labour and a 6% swing to the LDs.

    Let's see if this is more than Conference Season "noise" in a fortnight.

    My first thoughts as well. 12.5% swing. Wow.

    Oblivion if country-wide surely???
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Very powerful piece to camera from Casey Neistat,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVHGhdUDjPU

    That is articulate and potent
    Its also spot on. Amazing how your Owen Jones of the world struggle with this, much easier to shout liar at Margaret Hodge.
    My God. Owen Jones. I used to rather like him, yet he becomes increasingly serpentine and questionable, justifying inner prejudices

    The Margaret Hodge thing was a low, worst of all he later portrayed himself as a victim of bullying, in that encounter

    I still have hopes he will return to the light. He is eloquent, clever, gay, leftwing, candid, he could be a real and worthwhile voice, positively marked by his unusuality
    An overhyped rancid misogynist who comes out with the sort of drearily predictable opinions always found in the Guardian.
    Otoh it is not easy to take Margaret Hodge seriously since the Islington children's homes scandal.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,323
    edited October 2023
    FT

    Labour admit their 28 billion green annual spend will not be met before the end of the next Parliament

    https://news.sky.com/story/sundays-national-newspaper-front-pages-12427754?postid=6567296#liveblog-body
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2023

    The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

    Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

    It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

    In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

    But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

    The Mail has helpfully compiled a list of Lineker's controversial tweets and you'd be hard pressed to apply the label "world affairs" to any of them. Domestic politics on the other hand...

    Gary Lineker won't be allowed to share his political views on social media while MOTD is on air under new BBC guidelines - but stars will be free to express opinions 'about issues that matter to them'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12570503/gary-lineker-bbc-stars-climate-change-opinions-social-media.html
    He has been quite happy to talk about world affairs in the past e.g.

    Gary Lineker has spoken up about the situation in Ukraine,
    https://www.indy100.com/news/gary-lineker-russia-ukraine

    Football star sparked fury after tweeting that killing of West Bank gunman Ahmed Daraghmeh was ‘awful’
    https://www.thejc.com/news/news/bbc-hit-with-complaint-over-gary-lineker-tweet-about-killing-10UXjXnXqTRoy5kpKOIjoT

    Now he can't even manage a "my heart goes out to the Jewish victims of terrorism"....and of course it isn't just him, it lots of the other usual loud mouth suspects on the tw@tters. They are obviously shit scared to appear to virtue signal support for something that their echo chamber might not be 100% onboard with.
    Hang-on, you want to see people virtue signalling now?

    Shades of poppy fascism, which now I think of it is just a week or two away.
    No, I am saying he is a massive hypocrite.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
    In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

    It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.
    Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

    And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.
    It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.
    Electrification? Greenford, Henley, Marlow, and Windsor Central are all EAST of Reading!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2023

    The BBC and Black Lives Matter have exposed the virtue-signalling class’s moral depravity

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/11/bbc-and-blm-exposed-virtue-signalling-class-moral-depravity/

    Its very strange how the likes of Gary Lineker appear to have nothing to say on the matter, when they normally can't shut up about world affairs.

    It really isn't hard, in the way you can criticise Israel actions and particular the (alleged) corruption of their PM / previous statements of some ministers in the government without being an antisemite....you can call Hamas depraved terrorists up their with ISIS, with an agenda not dissimilar to the Nazis, without being an Islamophobe or hating all of Palestine.

    In fact when we have had Islamic terrorism in the West, normally the same people being totally silent are the first to say wow wow wow, and bring out the standard lines of don't blame all Muslims, religion of peace, think of the increase in hate crimes etc etc etc.

    But against the Jews....tumbleweed.

    The Mail has helpfully compiled a list of Lineker's controversial tweets and you'd be hard pressed to apply the label "world affairs" to any of them. Domestic politics on the other hand...

    Gary Lineker won't be allowed to share his political views on social media while MOTD is on air under new BBC guidelines - but stars will be free to express opinions 'about issues that matter to them'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12570503/gary-lineker-bbc-stars-climate-change-opinions-social-media.html
    He has been quite happy to talk about world affairs in the past e.g.

    Gary Lineker has spoken up about the situation in Ukraine,
    https://www.indy100.com/news/gary-lineker-russia-ukraine

    Football star sparked fury after tweeting that killing of West Bank gunman Ahmed Daraghmeh was ‘awful’
    https://www.thejc.com/news/news/bbc-hit-with-complaint-over-gary-lineker-tweet-about-killing-10UXjXnXqTRoy5kpKOIjoT

    Now he can't even manage a "my heart goes out to the Jewish victims of terrorism"....and of course it isn't just him, it lots of the other usual loud mouth suspects on the tw@tters. They are obviously shit scared to appear to virtue signal support for something that their echo chamber might not be 100% onboard with.
    So you've got one deleted tweet and one about a footballer. In any case, depending what is meant by "when MOTD is on air" he might be barred. But does "on air" mean an hour a week or the whole season?
    Its not political in the slightest to say I have sympathy with the victims of terrorism.

    Tweeting about what Israel or Palestine should do, yes that is political.

    He will be back tweeting about other causes, where he doesn't have to worry about with his mates disagreeing in due course. The rules have been deliberately written not to really impact him.

    And as I say, it isn't just him, its loads of the usual suspects, who are straight out the blocks with their take, virtue signalling left, right and centre.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801

    Uncle Barty always makes Warrington sound bloody awful, soulless identikit housing surrounded by motorways. I have been to Warrington, it’s not that bad in real life. At least not the bit I visited.

    Hmm, a look at TripAdvisor throws up cultural activities like Zombie Scavenger Hunts (not sure if the undead are doinf the scavenging or being eaten), though there is a nice looking trad municipal museum with mummy and paintings and dino and all. Okay. Walton Hall is No 1 Best Thing to Do in Warrington, and the Museum is No 3., but it 's a bit worrying that Gullivers World Theme Park is no 2 and an alpaca farm is no 4. Really trad Lanc culture that, of a part with parkin and faggot and so on. It thins out a bit later, No 105 being a bcobblestoned street, which at least doesn't take long to inspect.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,197

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
    In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

    It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.
    Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

    And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.
    It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.
    Electrification? Greenford, Henley, Marlow, and Windsor Central are all EAST of Reading!
    Would have been a good idea to electrify these and to Oxford to eliminate local diesel working from Paddington

    Total cost £2bn??
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Foxy said:

    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

    Exterminate all the brutes.

    It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

    Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

    I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.
    Given what Biden's been saying I think there's no prospect of him stopping Israel from wiping out Hamas.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,801

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
    In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

    It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.
    Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

    And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.
    It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.
    Electrification? Greenford, Henley, Marlow, and Windsor Central are all EAST of Reading!
    Sorry, thought C|rossrail was leccy all the way to Reading Main.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2023
    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

    Exterminate all the brutes.

    It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

    Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

    I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.
    Given what Biden's been saying I think there's no prospect of him stopping Israel from wiping out Hamas.
    That was my take, but I know nought....but it should concern us all that then all the other players start getting involved.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,695
    Did the Finns give that 3pm press conference about the pipeline?
  • Options

    Carnyx said:


    It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.

    Electrification? Greenford, Henley, Marlow, and Windsor Central are all EAST of Reading!
    Would have been a good idea to electrify these and to Oxford to eliminate local diesel working from Paddington

    Total cost £2bn??
    And then there's the Chiltern Main Line. Marylebone (main line), Wembley Stadium, Sudbury & Harrow Road, Sudbury Hill Harrow and Northolt Park are the only stations in Greater London not served by any electric trains or trams.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,347

    glw said:

    Foxy said:

    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

    Exterminate all the brutes.

    It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

    Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

    I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.
    Given what Biden's been saying I think there's no prospect of him stopping Israel from wiping out Hamas.
    That was my take, but I know nought....but it should concern us all that then all the other players start getting involved.
    It’s not a good time in the US electoral cycle for a US President notionally seeking re-election to urge restraint.
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

    Exterminate all the brutes.

    It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

    Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

    I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.
    The situation has been snowballing for decades.

    This time Hamas have gone too far and bitten off more than they could chew. They were counting on the fact Israel would be held back so there would be no major retaliation, just a few pointless airstrikes and that's that.

    They were wrong.

    Hamas need to be destroyed, and should be.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Cancelling HS2 and transferring cash to motorists in the south of England is popular in the Shires shock. Meanwhile, these are extraordinary numbers for Crossrail. Plenty now left over for Crossrail 2 👍👍👍👍

    https://twitter.com/Matt_building/status/1712070937741279416?t=OaFEMgL-GzNPERbyXHSThQ&s=19

    We northerners drive, of course, so this could never happen in Liverpool etc

    This is now noticeable. Soho. Tott Ct Road, all that, is now RAMMED with people at all times of the day. Much of this, I am sure, is down to the Liz Line

    I was in Soho last night (a mild Tuesday night in October, nothing exceptional) and it was totally chocka in ways I have not seen before 2022. And I have lived in London for nearly 40 years

    This has been the case on all my recent visits to Soho: so many people it is nearly impossible to drive down the streets. This used to happen on occasional hot summer weekends, now it is standard

    It's great for central London, why can't we do this across the North? Do it. If you build, they genuinely will come
    The link to Thameslink, as that hopefully goes up to full capacity, is a game changer too. The sum is greater than the parts.
    I've connected (many times) between Thameslink and the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon. How is it changing?
    In theory, as the industrial action ends and the last works complete, TL will have more trains per hour in the central core. 24 an hour in peak time, from memory, is the plan.

    It’s just a shame the walk across to Crossrail is a bit of an arse.
    Wow: one every 100 seconds. That's incredible.

    And yes, getting from Thameslink to Crossrail is a bit of a pain. But only a bit.
    It's great. But the more the Tories take photo ops on Crossrail the more it pisses off everyone north of Cricklewood or wherever it goes near. Or for that matter west of Reading, given that that electrification was messed up.
    Electrification? Greenford, Henley, Marlow, and Windsor Central are all EAST of Reading!
    Sorry, thought C|rossrail was leccy all the way to Reading Main.
    Yes it is, BUT they missed electrifying the above BRANCH lines when they did the GWR main line.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited October 2023

    Foxy said:

    During a Press Conference by the newly formed Emergency Government of Israel the Current-Minister of Defence, Yoav Gallant said, “We will wipe Hamas off the Face of the Earth;” while the Former-Minister of Defense, Benny Gantz said, “Hamas is an Enemy that needs to be Exterminated by all means.”

    https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1712206467997004061

    Exterminate all the brutes.

    It might all be bluster, but it seemed to be repeated by numerous different government officials, and then they look weak if they don't follow through.

    Are the Americans going to talk them down? Again it might all be for show, but Sleepy Joe didn't sound like he was going to come in and say "Bibi, leave it, leave it, its not worth, lets get a kebab instead" anytime soon.

    I think it should worry everybody that obviously the situation could snowball.
    The situation has been snowballing for decades.

    This time Hamas have gone too far and bitten off more than they could chew. They were counting on the fact Israel would be held back so there would be no major retaliation, just a few pointless airstrikes and that's that.

    They were wrong.

    Hamas need to be destroyed, and should be.
    The situation in the region as a whole though has been going the other way, towards normalising relations with other Arab countries.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Uncle Barty always makes Warrington sound bloody awful, soulless identikit housing surrounded by motorways. I have been to Warrington, it’s not that bad in real life. At least not the bit I visited.

    Only an idiot thinks that surrounded by motorways is a bad thing.

    And the only reason houses are identikit in our current system is the planning system resulting in an oligopoly building estates en-bloc.

    Look at Japan where planning permission isn't needed to build a home (or demolish an existing one and rebuild it to your desires) and they don't have identikit homes. Or a housing shortage.
    I quite like motorways (freeways), but I'm not entirely convinced I want to be surrounded by them:


    Why I advocate them being around towns, not buildings . . .

    . . . unless anyone thought that building was a town? Is that all that Sir Keir Starmer meant when he promised new towns?
This discussion has been closed.