The Mid-Beds betting remains very tight – politicalbetting.com

NickPalmer said:

ClippP said:

What Labour really want, as Mr Taz says, is to grab all power unto themselves and impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, which does not have to pay any attention to what ordinary people want. Cue... Labour sneers about NIMBYs. Big Brother knows best.....

People are disgusted by the incompetent and self-serving dictatorship the Conservatives are busy creating, but that is no reason to head for a Socialist dictatorship instead.

It's been a while since I've heard it said that Labour is working for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a Socialist dictatorship - all I can say is that if that's what Keir Starmer secretly wants, he's the most sensational sleeper agent in history. But if that's what you think, it does explain why you're so rigidly partisan in your LibDem posts.

HYUFD said:

Casino_Royale said:

IanB2 said:

Sean_F said:

NickPalmer said:

kjh said:

Northern_Al said:

Labour got nearly twice as many votes as the LDs in the 2019 GE (14,028/8,171). And in 2017 GE nearly five times as many votes (17,593/3,798).
It seems entirely rational for Labour to put everything into winning this particular one, as Nick argues.

Hi @Northern_Al. Agree with the numbers and if Labour want to they should, just as the LDs should if they want to. What's good for the goose as they say.

But the logic of my argument - Any issue with it as to who would be most likely to win in a two way fight with the Tories? That is all I am saying when Nick points out that it is the LDs who are the spoilers.

You're posting about a hypothetical world where Labour and LibDems effectively stand down for each other - as you know, neither party is up for that. However, there is a degree of unofficial understanding that if one of them are clearly the closer challenger, the other one won't try *too* hard. It's that understanding, which benefits the LibDems in places like Guildford, that they are breaking by trying hard in a seat where they are clearly third, and aggressively attacking the Labour candidate.

We all have hardcore types who will go all-out in any election even if they started on 1%, but sensible parties encourage a bit of restraint and focus on winnable seats. By making it harder for second-place Labour to win in mid-Beds, it makes it more difficult for us sensible types to keep the "fight everything everywhere" school of thought in check.

I do recognise that in a month where there are three by-elections, it's understandable that the LibDems want to make a serious effort somewhere rather than just sitting them all out. But a degree of restraint in the face of the polls showing Labour within an inch of beating the Tories would be appreciated.

That's wrong too. If the Lib Dems have a fair chance of winning (and the polling suggests that they do) they should go for it.

Particularly as Labour promised to change the voting system that forces voters into these unwholesome considerations in the first place, and then broke that promise, out of what at the time they saw as their naked self-interest (in the alternative promise-kept universe, the Tories never got a majority again).

But, that's very naïve too.

The Lib Dems and Labour teaming up for PR or a change in the voting system wouldn't guarantee centre-left government forever, anymore than it does in Europe.

In fact, it would be more likely to bring radical fringe parties to power.

Indeed, Italy has PR. Who is in power? The hard right Meloni.

Germany has PR and the hard right AfD is surging. Sweden has PR and a government reliant on the Sweden Democrats for confidence and supply.

New Zealand has PR and the governing Labour party looks headed for defeat

algarkirk said:

AlsoLei said:

Eabhal said:

"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?

We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:

1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time.
2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland.
3) Old age/problems with hands
4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends

This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.

https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1708067400820687265?t=Ewfyp1XZO-02ZwvrxzPEtw&s=19

Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:




That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.

There is a big reason for avoiding bus lanes 'when in use' which appeals to voters of all shades of opinion. When in use you collide with a bus.

NickPalmer said:

ClippP said:

What Labour really want, as Mr Taz says, is to grab all power unto themselves and impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, which does not have to pay any attention to what ordinary people want. Cue... Labour sneers about NIMBYs. Big Brother knows best.....

People are disgusted by the incompetent and self-serving dictatorship the Conservatives are busy creating, but that is no reason to head for a Socialist dictatorship instead.

It's been a while since I've heard it said that Labour is working for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a Socialist dictatorship - all I can say is that if that's what Keir Starmer secretly wants, he's the most sensational sleeper agent in history. But if that's what you think, it does explain why you're so rigidly partisan in your LibDem posts.

Chris said:

Just when you think the quality of BBC reporting can't get any worse:

Green Party plans to double membership fees amid legal woes
...
The Greens are proposing a 50% increase in membership fees to build funds.
If voted through at the Green Party Conference next week, the cost of being a member will rise from £3.33 a month to £5 a month ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66935750

But wait. Maybe "Sam Francis, political reporter & Helen Catt, political correspondent" are right. After all, 100% is double 50%, right?

SouthamObserver said:

Eabhal said:

"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?

We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:

1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time.
2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland.
3) Old age/problems with hands
4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends

This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.

https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1708067400820687265?t=Ewfyp1XZO-02ZwvrxzPEtw&s=19

The smart thing about Sunak's latest wheeze is that drivers don't use the NHS or other public services, don't have mortgage or rent payments to make, don't ever have to walk anywhere, have not been suffering a sustained cost of living crisis and are not concerned about raw turds pouring into our rivers and seas.

bondegezou said:

Chris said:

Just when you think the quality of BBC reporting can't get any worse:

Green Party plans to double membership fees amid legal woes
...
The Greens are proposing a 50% increase in membership fees to build funds.
If voted through at the Green Party Conference next week, the cost of being a member will rise from £3.33 a month to £5 a month ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66935750

But wait. Maybe "Sam Francis, political reporter & Helen Catt, political correspondent" are right. After all, 100% is double 50%, right?

Leaving aside the journalists’ maths, there’s an actual notable story here about the party’s legal fights over trans rights policies with Shahrar Ali et al.

NickPalmer said:

ClippP said:

What Labour really want, as Mr Taz says, is to grab all power unto themselves and impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, which does not have to pay any attention to what ordinary people want. Cue... Labour sneers about NIMBYs. Big Brother knows best.....

People are disgusted by the incompetent and self-serving dictatorship the Conservatives are busy creating, but that is no reason to head for a Socialist dictatorship instead.

It's been a while since I've heard it said that Labour is working for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a Socialist dictatorship - all I can say is that if that's what Keir Starmer secretly wants, he's the most sensational sleeper agent in history. But if that's what you think, it does explain why you're so rigidly partisan in your LibDem posts.

WhisperingOracle said:

I remember the halcyon days of internet optimism of the late '90s.

The internet would be decentralising, democratising, build links and communities between people. Independent, localised control, everyone taking charge of their own destiny. Some of this has come to pass, but possibly more has happened the opposite way around.

kjh said:

NickPalmer said:

IanB2 said:

Certainly, anywhere within easy reach of London, Labour is able to mobilise a lot of resources. And there's truth that the LibDems find it difficult to campaign against both of the main parties at the same time, preferring to establish a two-party contest and then squeeze the support of the other main party, which I suspect is going to be difficult in mid Beds.

The logic of your post, however, is that Labour may well not win - in which case their intervention would simply have saved the seat for the Tories - just as in Finchley at the GE.

My perception, which I've been trying to avoid posting as it's so obviously partisan, is that the LibDems are the spoilers here, by making a major effort in a seat where they started clearly third. I really think that the LibDem habit of fighting every by-election on the basis of "only we can beat the Tories" is unpleasant and ultimately self-defeating (because it undermines their making the same claim in seats where they really ARE the only serious challenger). Describing Labour fighting hard where they're a clear second and the betting favourites as an "intervention" is just, well, partisan.

Not sure of your logic here Nick.

If LDs fight it and Lab don't it is a slam dunk LD win
If Lab fight it and LDs don't it is a possible (just possible) Lab win

Why are the LDs the spoilers? Why is it not that Lab are the spoilers?

Seems to me that the same argument could be put to Labour and even more strongly as if it were a two way fight with the Tories the LDs would be more certain winners not Labour.

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

AlsoLei said:

My comment on August 18th: "Here's a left-field idea to solve the parking app problem: have the government create a single national parking app."

https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4510585#Comment_4510585

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of ministers, wonks and special advisors scan the comments for inspiration or ideas.

The 100-200 people who regularly post on here are an influential bunch.

Stuartinromford said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Given that Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods is a fancy pants way of saying "plan things so that people have shops, GPs, schools, parks and so on a reasonably short walk away", what exactly is the issue?

I can understand the anxiety about LTNs, even if I disagree with it.

But who is going to have their life made worse by a Fifteen Minute Neighbourhood? That Rishi is sticking his tiny nose in there looks crazy.

Casino_Royale said:

Chris said:

RobD said:

Chris said:

AlsoLei said:

Eabhal said:

"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?

We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:

1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time.
2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland.
3) Old age/problems with hands
4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends

This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.

https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1708067400820687265?t=Ewfyp1XZO-02ZwvrxzPEtw&s=19

Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:




That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.

That would definitely require some means of the public reporting overrunning road works.

A hotline, maybe.

I assume the council would be setting start/end dates for roadworks that cause road restrictions or closures. Why would you have to rely on public reporting?

COUNCILS?!!

YOU'D ENTRUST IT TO THE NATURAL ENEMIES OF THE DRIVER???!!?

WHAT KIND OF A COMMIE/PINKO/LIB DEM/PEDESTRIAN ARE YOU!!!??

Commies, pinkos and traitors.

SouthamObserver said:

Make public transport a less attractive proposition by reducing bus lanes, so sending more people to their cars, so making traffic even worse. Just the kind of smart, long-term, joined-up thinking we need right now.

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

AlsoLei said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

I mean, where I live, all of those things are less than 15 mins away right now. Is Sunak going to stand outside my house and force me to walk round the block twice before I'm allowed to go to Sainsburys?

TimS said:

AlsoLei said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

I mean, where I live, all of those things are less than 15 mins away right now. Is Sunak going to stand outside my house and force me to walk round the block twice before I'm allowed to go to Sainsburys?

I’m walking to Tesco express as we speak. We must stop this madness and get me back in the car, speeding to Sydenham big Sainsburys at well over 20mph, ignoring the dastardly camera that snapped me last weekend.

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

OnlyLivingBoy said:

SouthamObserver said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

Yep - like HS2, being able to walk to the shops or the GP surgery in 15 minutes is now woke.

Anyone who walks anywhere is basically now a traitor.

Malmesbury said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

Given the history of planners designing communities, to get away from (and destroy existing examples of) the kind of “village life” that this describes….

nova said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

The conspiracy is a pretty much Covid grifters looking for a new angle.

Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.

The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.

It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.

It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.

Barnesian said:

kjh said:

NickPalmer said:

IanB2 said:

Certainly, anywhere within easy reach of London, Labour is able to mobilise a lot of resources. And there's truth that the LibDems find it difficult to campaign against both of the main parties at the same time, preferring to establish a two-party contest and then squeeze the support of the other main party, which I suspect is going to be difficult in mid Beds.

The logic of your post, however, is that Labour may well not win - in which case their intervention would simply have saved the seat for the Tories - just as in Finchley at the GE.

My perception, which I've been trying to avoid posting as it's so obviously partisan, is that the LibDems are the spoilers here, by making a major effort in a seat where they started clearly third. I really think that the LibDem habit of fighting every by-election on the basis of "only we can beat the Tories" is unpleasant and ultimately self-defeating (because it undermines their making the same claim in seats where they really ARE the only serious challenger). Describing Labour fighting hard where they're a clear second and the betting favourites as an "intervention" is just, well, partisan.

Not sure of your logic here Nick.

If LDs fight it and Lab don't it is a slam dunk LD win
If Lab fight it and LDs don't it is a possible (just possible) Lab win

Why are the LDs the spoilers? Why is it not that Lab are the spoilers?

Seems to me that the same argument could be put to Labour and even more strongly as if it were a two way fight with the Tories the LDs would be more certain winners not Labour.

Also Lib Dems were the favourites until recently when Labour upped their efforts.

dixiedean said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

It's very much targeting the significant minority who don't think those on minimum wage ought to be able to afford pets, mental health care, Netflix, holidays, a decent smartphone or a night out a month.
These amenities are for the likes of us not them.
I found this polling the most eye opening there's been for a long while. It explains much. Scroll past the "people on benefits" bit. They've always been regarded like that. Look at the minimum wage figures.

https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45956-what-should-living-standards-look-people-benefits-?redirect_from=/topics/society/articles-reports/2023/08/02/what-should-living-standards-look-people-benefits-

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

AlsoLei said:

My comment on August 18th: "Here's a left-field idea to solve the parking app problem: have the government create a single national parking app."

https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4510585#Comment_4510585

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of ministers, wonks and special advisors scan the comments for inspiration or ideas.

The 100-200 people who regularly post on here are an influential bunch.

TimS said:

Stuartinromford said:

Thought experiment.

You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.

The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.

What do you advise your boss to say?

I haven't got a bloody clue.

Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.

“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”

“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”

“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”

Etc etc

TimS said:

Stuartinromford said:

Thought experiment.

You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.

The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.

What do you advise your boss to say?

I haven't got a bloody clue.

Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.

“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”

“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”

“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”

Etc etc

Stuartinromford said:

TimS said:

Stuartinromford said:

Thought experiment.

You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.

The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.

What do you advise your boss to say?

I haven't got a bloody clue.

Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.

“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”

“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”

“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”

Etc etc

So, Prime Minister, how does having a school and a GP a short walk away impose restrictions on people?

Farooq said:

kjh said:

Casino_Royale said:

williamglenn said:

AlsoLei said:

My comment on August 18th: "Here's a left-field idea to solve the parking app problem: have the government create a single national parking app."

https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4510585#Comment_4510585

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of ministers, wonks and special advisors scan the comments for inspiration or ideas.

The 100-200 people who regularly post on here are an influential bunch.

My god we could cause havoc by coming up with some batshit ideas. Oh wait....

I've long had the feeling that Marina Hyde has lifted things from here to put in her columns. On one occasion even from me.

TimS said:

Stuartinromford said:

TimS said:

Stuartinromford said:

Thought experiment.

You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.

The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.

What do you advise your boss to say?

I haven't got a bloody clue.

Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.

“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”

“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”

“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”

Etc etc

So, Prime Minister, how does having a school and a GP a short walk away impose restrictions on people?

“Look, the important thing is that we bring the community with us. I’m a strong believer in giving people a voice. Potholes. Bus lanes. 7 bins”

EDIT: “strong believer in giving HARD WORKING FAMILIES a voice”

bondegezou said:

TimS said:

Stuartinromford said:

TimS said:

Stuartinromford said:

Thought experiment.

You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.

The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.

What do you advise your boss to say?

I haven't got a bloody clue.

Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.

“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”

“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”

“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”

Etc etc

So, Prime Minister, how does having a school and a GP a short walk away impose restrictions on people?

“Look, the important thing is that we bring the community with us. I’m a strong believer in giving people a voice. Potholes. Bus lanes. 7 bins”

EDIT: “strong believer in giving HARD WORKING FAMILIES a voice”

Us lazy people with lazy families deserve a voice too!

TimS said:

AlsoLei said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

I mean, where I live, all of those things are less than 15 mins away right now. Is Sunak going to stand outside my house and force me to walk round the block twice before I'm allowed to go to Sainsburys?

I’m walking to Tesco express as we speak. We must stop this madness and get me back in the car, speeding to Sydenham big Sainsburys at well over 20mph, ignoring the dastardly camera that snapped me last weekend.

Carnyx said:

Foxy said:

Tres said:

For Leon

Am I the only one who has never heard of this tree, and really isn't bothered?

A reasonable question, but if someone came and bulldozed, say, New Walk in Leicester, how would you feel? I was really taken with the Walk, and I'm sure the locals would be very upset.

Also the tree symbolises happy outings for so very many folk - such as a holiday Mrs C and I spent staying very near it and roaming the wall.

Leon said:

Please join us for drinks. Manta beach

MattW said:

Eabhal said:

nova said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

The conspiracy is a pretty much Covid grifters looking for a new angle.

Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.

The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.

It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.

It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.

I think you are describing an LTN, not a 15-minute neighbourhood.

For example, modern housing developments are always LTNs, but very much NOT 15-minute neighbourhoods because the developers never invest in local GPs, dentists, pubs, schools, corner shops...

IMO that's not true.

Just looking at one of our smallish local developments which has got PP recently:

"... more than £850,000 in developer contributions – including £481,114 for primary school places – will be provided to shore up local services"
...
“Countryside Properties will be making contributions towards primary school education, open space, healthcare, libraries and improvements to footpaths.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/110-new-homes-built-sutton-5688170

Interesting from Zadrozny, in a huff:
Cllr Zadrozny, the leader of the council, said: “I can promise in future that developers won’t get a greased sausage through my planning committee without building a better relationship [with the council].

Eabhal said:

Malmesbury said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

Given the history of planners designing communities, to get away from (and destroy existing examples of) the kind of “village life” that this describes….

7,000 pubs gone in the last decade. This attack on walking must be the final nail in the coffin for this great British institution.

darkage said:

nova said:

AlsoLei said:

darkage said:

About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.

Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.

So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?

Have I missed something obvious here?

ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?

The conspiracy is a pretty much Covid grifters looking for a new angle.

Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.

The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.

It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.

It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.

This is a fair summary.
The problem is that the 'this is the thin end of the wedge' criticism is both a) a conspiracy theory AND b) not entirely without merit.
If you set off the principle of having cameras recording all traffic movements and only permitting X amount per year, then it isn't too difficult to start changing the rules once the system is in place, using whatever justification you want to come up with.
This is quite a fundamental problem and it is unwise to dismiss it as 'conspiracy theory nonsense'.

Carnyx said:

Foxy said:

Tres said:

For Leon

Am I the only one who has never heard of this tree, and really isn't bothered?

A reasonable question, but if someone came and bulldozed, say, New Walk in Leicester, how would you feel? I was really taken with the Walk, and I'm sure the locals would be very upset.

Also the tree symbolises happy outings for so very many folk - such as a holiday Mrs C and I spent staying very near it and roaming the wall.