Labour got nearly twice as many votes as the LDs in the 2019 GE (14,028/8,171). And in 2017 GE nearly five times as many votes (17,593/3,798). It seems entirely rational for Labour to put everything into winning this particular one, as Nick argues.
Hi @Northern_Al. Agree with the numbers and if Labour want to they should, just as the LDs should if they want to. What's good for the goose as they say.
But the logic of my argument - Any issue with it as to who would be most likely to win in a two way fight with the Tories? That is all I am saying when Nick points out that it is the LDs who are the spoilers.
You're posting about a hypothetical world where Labour and LibDems effectively stand down for each other - as you know, neither party is up for that. However, there is a degree of unofficial understanding that if one of them are clearly the closer challenger, the other one won't try *too* hard. It's that understanding, which benefits the LibDems in places like Guildford, that they are breaking by trying hard in a seat where they are clearly third, and aggressively attacking the Labour candidate.
We all have hardcore types who will go all-out in any election even if they started on 1%, but sensible parties encourage a bit of restraint and focus on winnable seats. By making it harder for second-place Labour to win in mid-Beds, it makes it more difficult for us sensible types to keep the "fight everything everywhere" school of thought in check.
I do recognise that in a month where there are three by-elections, it's understandable that the LibDems want to make a serious effort somewhere rather than just sitting them all out. But a degree of restraint in the face of the polls showing Labour within an inch of beating the Tories would be appreciated.
That's wrong too. If the Lib Dems have a fair chance of winning (and the polling suggests that they do) they should go for it.
Particularly as Labour promised to change the voting system that forces voters into these unwholesome considerations in the first place, and then broke that promise, out of what at the time they saw as their naked self-interest (in the alternative promise-kept universe, the Tories never got a majority again).
But, that's very naïve too.
The Lib Dems and Labour teaming up for PR or a change in the voting system wouldn't guarantee centre-left government forever, anymore than it does in Europe.
In fact, it would be more likely to bring radical fringe parties to power.
Not necessarily, and I certainly wasn't saying there'd be centre-left government for ever. But there wouldn't be parties handed majority power on the back of 38-42% of the vote.
It’s an academic debate anyway. Labour, in Government, will always find an excuse to avoid PR. Too many, by that stage, sitting MPs would lose jobs because of it. The best they might do is the crappy AV model.
NB: Were they ever to get a majority, the LibDems would stop wanting PR too. It’s human nature.
The last Liberal Government was in the middle of changing the voting system over to PR, when it was interrupted by the First World War.
So I think you are wrong on that one, Mr Biggles.
See, they found an excuse not to…
More seriously, the rise of the Labour Party was by then predictable and baked in. PR would have saved more seats that it lost. Pure self interest.
In my hypothetical, the LibDems would have risen to power via FTP so they’d stick with it.
To be fair, plenty of Conservative members of the coalition were as much in favour of STV as the Lloyd George Liberals during the 1916-17 Speakers Conference process - when they realised that universal (male) suffrage was inevitable, they saw it as being their only hope of retaining influence
It was only after the 1922 election proved they could continue to win that they turned decisively against.
Certainly, anywhere within easy reach of London, Labour is able to mobilise a lot of resources. And there's truth that the LibDems find it difficult to campaign against both of the main parties at the same time, preferring to establish a two-party contest and then squeeze the support of the other main party, which I suspect is going to be difficult in mid Beds.
The logic of your post, however, is that Labour may well not win - in which case their intervention would simply have saved the seat for the Tories - just as in Finchley at the GE.
My perception, which I've been trying to avoid posting as it's so obviously partisan, is that the LibDems are the spoilers here, by making a major effort in a seat where they started clearly third. I really think that the LibDem habit of fighting every by-election on the basis of "only we can beat the Tories" is unpleasant and ultimately self-defeating (because it undermines their making the same claim in seats where they really ARE the only serious challenger). Describing Labour fighting hard where they're a clear second and the betting favourites as an "intervention" is just, well, partisan.
Not sure of your logic here Nick.
If LDs fight it and Lab don't it is a slam dunk LD win If Lab fight it and LDs don't it is a possible (just possible) Lab win
Why are the LDs the spoilers? Why is it not that Lab are the spoilers?
Seems to me that the same argument could be put to Labour and even more strongly as if it were a two way fight with the Tories the LDs would be more certain winners not Labour.
Labour got nearly twice as many votes as the LDs in the 2019 GE (14,028/8,171). And in 2017 GE nearly five times as many votes (17,593/3,798). It seems entirely rational for Labour to put everything into winning this particular one, as Nick argues.
Hi @Northern_Al. Agree with the numbers and if Labour want to they should, just as the LDs should if they want to. What's good for the goose as they say.
But the logic of my argument - Any issue with it as to who would be most likely to win in a two way fight with the Tories? That is all I am saying when Nick points out that it is the LDs who are the spoilers.
As you agree with the numbers, the numbers (2015, 2017 and 2019 GEs) suggest that Labour is more likely than the LDs to beat the Tories in a two-way fight. As somebody once said:
I agree with Nick.
Given that it starts as a safe Tory seat, winning is far less to do with how many people voted for you last time, and mostly to do with who disgruntled previous supporters of the government are inclined (and indeed willing) to vote for this time. The LibDems can win from third because, often, unhappy Tories simply aren't prepared to vote Labour.
The question is whether Starmer has jettisoned so much of what Labour has previously stood for, and signed up to keeping so much of the Tories' stuff, that he's now seen as essentially harmless. The risk being that harmless isn't a long way from pointless.
There’s a popular (in some parts of the constituency - same flavour as the indies that run the council) local independent (ex-Tory obviously). That changes a lot of the balance you are talking about. You can start from 60% leak 20%, and still win, so long as it doesn’t go to your main rival.
Not really. Candidates like that almost always just bring in a few hundred votes, a thousand at most.
Mike Jordan got 1502 votes in the Selby & Ainsty by-election as a sort of independent. (He was the Yorkshire Party candidate, but they didn’t manage to get “Yorkshire Party” on the ballot paper.) An independent got 2090 votes in the Wakefield by-election, coming third (above David Herdson). An independent got 2904 in Hartlepool, another third place.
Just got a speeding notice through the post for exceeding the limit in a 20mph zone.
I’m voting Rishi now.
Sympathies, Tim. May I enquire just how fast you were going?
My understanding is that you are allowed 10% plus 2 over the limiti, so the 20 is effectively 24.
Just curious, nothing else.
You're still breaking the law if you are over the speed limit, it's just that the police guidelines for issuing a ticket take into account error in their cameras etc.
What Labour really want, as Mr Taz says, is to grab all power unto themselves and impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, which does not have to pay any attention to what ordinary people want. Cue... Labour sneers about NIMBYs. Big Brother knows best.....
People are disgusted by the incompetent and self-serving dictatorship the Conservatives are busy creating, but that is no reason to head for a Socialist dictatorship instead.
It's been a while since I've heard it said that Labour is working for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a Socialist dictatorship - all I can say is that if that's what Keir Starmer secretly wants, he's the most sensational sleeper agent in history. But if that's what you think, it does explain why you're so rigidly partisan in your LibDem posts.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
The last two ideas are decent.* There should also be large fines for not returning the street to the original condition after roadworks - telecoms companies regularly dig up setts in Edinburgh and fill the gaps with tarmac. Rose Street the most egregious example.
*Though, given that austerity hit Local Authorities the hardest, I suspect this is a way to hit one of their few remaining funding streams. Expect more closed libraries, swimming pools, and a yet more decrepit public realm.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:
That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.
That would definitely require some means of the public reporting overrunning road works.
A hotline, maybe.
I assume the council would be setting start/end dates for roadworks that cause road restrictions or closures. Why would you have to rely on public reporting?
What Labour really want, as Mr Taz says, is to grab all power unto themselves and impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, which does not have to pay any attention to what ordinary people want. Cue... Labour sneers about NIMBYs. Big Brother knows best.....
People are disgusted by the incompetent and self-serving dictatorship the Conservatives are busy creating, but that is no reason to head for a Socialist dictatorship instead.
It's been a while since I've heard it said that Labour is working for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a Socialist dictatorship - all I can say is that if that's what Keir Starmer secretly wants, he's the most sensational sleeper agent in history. But if that's what you think, it does explain why you're so rigidly partisan in your LibDem posts.
Though TBF, as the Economist was pointing out recently, Sir K's policy cynicism is very high level and successful stuff. As to his actual personal views I have no idea. A lot of the best politicians (SFAICS) don't have any, beyond doing what might attain and retain power.
The current Tory promotion of simultaneous contradictions exemplifies this, though they don't do it very well.
He gets my vote as the best option available by far, but over the years he has promoted and defended varying positions to say the least.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Labour got nearly twice as many votes as the LDs in the 2019 GE (14,028/8,171). And in 2017 GE nearly five times as many votes (17,593/3,798). It seems entirely rational for Labour to put everything into winning this particular one, as Nick argues.
Hi @Northern_Al. Agree with the numbers and if Labour want to they should, just as the LDs should if they want to. What's good for the goose as they say.
But the logic of my argument - Any issue with it as to who would be most likely to win in a two way fight with the Tories? That is all I am saying when Nick points out that it is the LDs who are the spoilers.
You're posting about a hypothetical world where Labour and LibDems effectively stand down for each other - as you know, neither party is up for that. However, there is a degree of unofficial understanding that if one of them are clearly the closer challenger, the other one won't try *too* hard. It's that understanding, which benefits the LibDems in places like Guildford, that they are breaking by trying hard in a seat where they are clearly third, and aggressively attacking the Labour candidate.
We all have hardcore types who will go all-out in any election even if they started on 1%, but sensible parties encourage a bit of restraint and focus on winnable seats. By making it harder for second-place Labour to win in mid-Beds, it makes it more difficult for us sensible types to keep the "fight everything everywhere" school of thought in check.
I do recognise that in a month where there are three by-elections, it's understandable that the LibDems want to make a serious effort somewhere rather than just sitting them all out. But a degree of restraint in the face of the polls showing Labour within an inch of beating the Tories would be appreciated.
That's wrong too. If the Lib Dems have a fair chance of winning (and the polling suggests that they do) they should go for it.
Particularly as Labour promised to change the voting system that forces voters into these unwholesome considerations in the first place, and then broke that promise, out of what at the time they saw as their naked self-interest (in the alternative promise-kept universe, the Tories never got a majority again).
But, that's very naïve too.
The Lib Dems and Labour teaming up for PR or a change in the voting system wouldn't guarantee centre-left government forever, anymore than it does in Europe.
In fact, it would be more likely to bring radical fringe parties to power.
Indeed, Italy has PR. Who is in power? The hard right Meloni.
Germany has PR and the hard right AfD is surging. Sweden has PR and a government reliant on the Sweden Democrats for confidence and supply.
New Zealand has PR and the governing Labour party looks headed for defeat
I think people can exaggerate the impact of changes in the voting system. More extreme parties can win under PR, as per your examples, and under FPTP (Trump, Modi, Cummings).
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:
That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.
That would definitely require some means of the public reporting overrunning road works.
A hotline, maybe.
I assume the council would be setting start/end dates for roadworks that cause road restrictions or closures. Why would you have to rely on public reporting?
COUNCILS?!!
YOU'D ENTRUST IT TO THE NATURAL ENEMIES OF THE DRIVER???!!?
WHAT KIND OF A COMMIE/PINKO/LIB DEM/PEDESTRIAN ARE YOU!!!??
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
What Labour really want, as Mr Taz says, is to grab all power unto themselves and impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, which does not have to pay any attention to what ordinary people want. Cue... Labour sneers about NIMBYs. Big Brother knows best.....
People are disgusted by the incompetent and self-serving dictatorship the Conservatives are busy creating, but that is no reason to head for a Socialist dictatorship instead.
It's been a while since I've heard it said that Labour is working for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a Socialist dictatorship - all I can say is that if that's what Keir Starmer secretly wants, he's the most sensational sleeper agent in history. But if that's what you think, it does explain why you're so rigidly partisan in your LibDem posts.
It is possible. After all the LDs sneaked Liz Truss into the Conservative Party and got her elected PM.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:
That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.
When is a bus lane “not in use”? Will they be open during the middle of the night when the other lanes are notoriously rammed?
It would be fine if the government had solved all our real problems and were fannying about with this kind of nonsense because they had nothing better to do. They actually think that "Bus Lanes" is the problem the country faces. Extraordinary.
Just when you think the quality of BBC reporting can't get any worse:
Green Party plans to double membership fees amid legal woes ... The Greens are proposing a 50% increase in membership fees to build funds. If voted through at the Green Party Conference next week, the cost of being a member will rise from £3.33 a month to £5 a month ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66935750
But wait. Maybe "Sam Francis, political reporter & Helen Catt, political correspondent" are right. After all, 100% is double 50%, right?
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:
That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.
When is a bus lane “not in use”? Will they be open during the middle of the night when the other lanes are notoriously rammed?
It would be fine if the government had solved all our real problems and were fannying about with this kind of nonsense because they had nothing better to do. They actually think that "Bus Lanes" is the problem the country faces. Extraordinary.
Introducing a national parking tax doesn't sound very pro motorist.
Just when you think the quality of BBC reporting can't get any worse:
Green Party plans to double membership fees amid legal woes ... The Greens are proposing a 50% increase in membership fees to build funds. If voted through at the Green Party Conference next week, the cost of being a member will rise from £3.33 a month to £5 a month ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66935750
But wait. Maybe "Sam Francis, political reporter & Helen Catt, political correspondent" are right. After all, 100% is double 50%, right?
Leaving aside the journalists’ maths, there’s an actual notable story here about the party’s legal fights over trans rights policies with Shahrar Ali et al.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
The smart thing about Sunak's latest wheeze is that drivers don't use the NHS or other public services, don't have mortgage or rent payments to make, don't ever have to walk anywhere, have not been suffering a sustained cost of living crisis and are not concerned about raw turds pouring into our rivers and seas.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
The smart thing about Sunak's latest wheeze is that drivers don't use the NHS or other public services, don't have mortgage or rent payments to make, don't ever have to walk anywhere, have not been suffering a sustained cost of living crisis and are not concerned about raw turds pouring into our rivers and seas.
I think who go on about “wild swimming” are annoying as well, but it’s a bit harsh to call them “raw turds”.
Just when you think the quality of BBC reporting can't get any worse:
Green Party plans to double membership fees amid legal woes ... The Greens are proposing a 50% increase in membership fees to build funds. If voted through at the Green Party Conference next week, the cost of being a member will rise from £3.33 a month to £5 a month ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66935750
But wait. Maybe "Sam Francis, political reporter & Helen Catt, political correspondent" are right. After all, 100% is double 50%, right?
Leaving aside the journalists’ maths, there’s an actual notable story here about the party’s legal fights over trans rights policies with Shahrar Ali et al.
Indeed. Has it occurred to Liz Truss that she could sue the Conservative Party because her political beliefs are a protected characteristic?
Just when you think the quality of BBC reporting can't get any worse:
Green Party plans to double membership fees amid legal woes ... The Greens are proposing a 50% increase in membership fees to build funds. If voted through at the Green Party Conference next week, the cost of being a member will rise from £3.33 a month to £5 a month ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66935750
But wait. Maybe "Sam Francis, political reporter & Helen Catt, political correspondent" are right. After all, 100% is double 50%, right?
Leaving aside the journalists’ maths, there’s an actual notable story here about the party’s legal fights over trans rights policies with Shahrar Ali et al.
I like the idea of "Journalist Maths". I have just typed up a Journalist Proof of the Riemann Hypothesis and I hope to win a Journalist's Abel Prize. (I'm too old for the Journalist's Fields Prize.)
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
What Labour really want, as Mr Taz says, is to grab all power unto themselves and impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, which does not have to pay any attention to what ordinary people want. Cue... Labour sneers about NIMBYs. Big Brother knows best.....
People are disgusted by the incompetent and self-serving dictatorship the Conservatives are busy creating, but that is no reason to head for a Socialist dictatorship instead.
It's been a while since I've heard it said that Labour is working for a dictatorship of the proletariat and a Socialist dictatorship - all I can say is that if that's what Keir Starmer secretly wants, he's the most sensational sleeper agent in history. But if that's what you think, it does explain why you're so rigidly partisan in your LibDem posts.
Very interesting that, when I say Labour Party, Mr Palmer replies Starmer.
The Labour Party is made up of many strands, some of which would like nothing more than to see the dictatorship of the proletariat. I wonder if Mr Palmer remembers the government of Jim Callaghan, which was undermined in its final days by the hard left Socialists and their Winter of Discontent? Undermined because Callaghan wasn't being socialist enough for them - and so they paved the way for the disaster that was Thatcherism.
Or indeed the recent leadership of Jeremy Corbyn who posed as the saviour of our relationship with the EU, even though he spent his whole political life opposing it, because it would prevent him fom carrying out a thoroughly Socialist programme?
I do not think there are many disenchanted former Conservatives voters in Mid Beds who are likely to go straight over to voting Labour. Because, quite simply, Labour are not to be trusted. So where do disenchanted Conservative voters go, if not the Lib Dems?
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:
That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.
When is a bus lane “not in use”? Will they be open during the middle of the night when the other lanes are notoriously rammed?
It would be fine if the government had solved all our real problems and were fannying about with this kind of nonsense because they had nothing better to do. They actually think that "Bus Lanes" is the problem the country faces. Extraordinary.
Yeah, it does look as if the government has run out of proper ideas and is jumping the shark.
I remember the halcyon days of internet optimism of the late '90s.
The internet would be decentralising, democratising, build links and communities between people. Independent, localised control, everyone taking charge of their own destiny. Some of this has come to pass, but possibly more has happened the opposite way around.
And some of us grinned cynically at the bar of the Gentlemen Loser. Outside, in the ally, The Finn’s construct scanned the snow…
Make public transport a less attractive proposition by reducing bus lanes, so sending more people to their cars, so making traffic even worse. Just the kind of smart, long-term, joined-up thinking we need right now.
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:
That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.
That would definitely require some means of the public reporting overrunning road works.
A hotline, maybe.
I assume the council would be setting start/end dates for roadworks that cause road restrictions or closures. Why would you have to rely on public reporting?
COUNCILS?!!
YOU'D ENTRUST IT TO THE NATURAL ENEMIES OF THE DRIVER???!!?
WHAT KIND OF A COMMIE/PINKO/LIB DEM/PEDESTRIAN ARE YOU!!!??
Certainly, anywhere within easy reach of London, Labour is able to mobilise a lot of resources. And there's truth that the LibDems find it difficult to campaign against both of the main parties at the same time, preferring to establish a two-party contest and then squeeze the support of the other main party, which I suspect is going to be difficult in mid Beds.
The logic of your post, however, is that Labour may well not win - in which case their intervention would simply have saved the seat for the Tories - just as in Finchley at the GE.
My perception, which I've been trying to avoid posting as it's so obviously partisan, is that the LibDems are the spoilers here, by making a major effort in a seat where they started clearly third. I really think that the LibDem habit of fighting every by-election on the basis of "only we can beat the Tories" is unpleasant and ultimately self-defeating (because it undermines their making the same claim in seats where they really ARE the only serious challenger). Describing Labour fighting hard where they're a clear second and the betting favourites as an "intervention" is just, well, partisan.
Not sure of your logic here Nick.
If LDs fight it and Lab don't it is a slam dunk LD win If Lab fight it and LDs don't it is a possible (just possible) Lab win
Why are the LDs the spoilers? Why is it not that Lab are the spoilers?
Seems to me that the same argument could be put to Labour and even more strongly as if it were a two way fight with the Tories the LDs would be more certain winners not Labour.
Also Lib Dems were the favourites until recently when Labour upped their efforts.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Given that Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods is a fancy pants way of saying "plan things so that people have shops, GPs, schools, parks and so on a reasonably short walk away", what exactly is the issue?
I can understand the anxiety about LTNs, even if I disagree with it.
But who is going to have their life made worse by a Fifteen Minute Neighbourhood? That Rishi is sticking his tiny nose in there looks crazy.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of ministers, wonks and special advisors scan the comments for inspiration or ideas.
The 100-200 people who regularly post on here are an influential bunch.
Your 53,000th post.
Tory astroturfers were a feature of Cameron's days, and the great man himself is said to have lurked. A question for @rcs1000 is how many posters' IP addresses change during each party's conference, and then change back?
I remember the halcyon days of internet optimism of the late '90s.
The internet would be decentralising, democratising, build links and communities between people. Independent, localised control, everyone taking charge of their own destiny. Some of this has come to pass, but possibly more has happened the opposite way around.
At the same time the internet pessimists were contented with email and could not believe the internet would catch on. Many were asking, 'how can anyone possibly make money from the internet except maybe for a few specialist retailers?'.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Given that Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods is a fancy pants way of saying "plan things so that people have shops, GPs, schools, parks and so on a reasonably short walk away", what exactly is the issue?
I can understand the anxiety about LTNs, even if I disagree with it.
But who is going to have their life made worse by a Fifteen Minute Neighbourhood? That Rishi is sticking his tiny nose in there looks crazy.
I don’t see how this disproves there are conspiracy theories. Rather, it shows how powerful those conspiracy theories are that Sunak thinks he can capitalise on them.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:
That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.
That would definitely require some means of the public reporting overrunning road works.
A hotline, maybe.
I assume the council would be setting start/end dates for roadworks that cause road restrictions or closures. Why would you have to rely on public reporting?
COUNCILS?!!
YOU'D ENTRUST IT TO THE NATURAL ENEMIES OF THE DRIVER???!!?
WHAT KIND OF A COMMIE/PINKO/LIB DEM/PEDESTRIAN ARE YOU!!!??
"We are a nation of drivers". Is "driver" going to end up as a protected characteristic?
We've gone over this a number of times, but in my own group of friends and family there are a number of people who this new "British value" excludes:
1) Challenges with diabetes - isn't able to drive all the time. 2) Epilepsy. Particularly tricky in the north of Scotland. 3) Old age/problems with hands 4) Entry costs are too high (lessons, test etc) - about a third of my friends
This isn't to comment on the political effectiveness of this messaging. It may well be a good move by Sunak. But there are openings to exploit for Labour.
Ahahahahahahahaha. I was joking earlier when I said their new policies were centred on bus lanes and bollards... and now:
That's hilarious. Dogshit Rishi is Prime Minister.
That would definitely require some means of the public reporting overrunning road works.
A hotline, maybe.
I assume the council would be setting start/end dates for roadworks that cause road restrictions or closures. Why would you have to rely on public reporting?
COUNCILS?!!
YOU'D ENTRUST IT TO THE NATURAL ENEMIES OF THE DRIVER???!!?
WHAT KIND OF A COMMIE/PINKO/LIB DEM/PEDESTRIAN ARE YOU!!!??
Commies, pinkos and traitors.
Free up pavements when not in use.
Could be a vote winner.
PS To Rishi or any of his advisors who may be looking in - I was only kidding!!
Make public transport a less attractive proposition by reducing bus lanes, so sending more people to their cars, so making traffic even worse. Just the kind of smart, long-term, joined-up thinking we need right now.
It’s what they are doing in West London - turn the bus lane into a rather awkward cycle lane. Which means the buses stop and start moving with the traffic. Used to be that the bus was noticeably faster than a car.
Meanwhile the e-bike deliveroo riders are doing their best to scare people out of the new cycle lane.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
Yep - like HS2, being able to walk to the shops or the GP surgery in 15 minutes is now woke.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
I mean, where I live, all of those things are less than 15 mins away right now. Is Sunak going to stand outside my house and force me to walk round the block twice before I'm allowed to go to Sainsburys?
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
I mean, where I live, all of those things are less than 15 mins away right now. Is Sunak going to stand outside my house and force me to walk round the block twice before I'm allowed to go to Sainsburys?
I’m walking to Tesco express as we speak. We must stop this madness and get me back in the car, speeding to Sydenham big Sainsburys at well over 20mph, ignoring the dastardly camera that snapped me last weekend.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
The conspiracy theory was that 'they are a “socialist”, or even “Stalinist”, attempt to control the population by actively preventing citizens from straying more than 15 minutes from their homes.'
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
I mean, where I live, all of those things are less than 15 mins away right now. Is Sunak going to stand outside my house and force me to walk round the block twice before I'm allowed to go to Sainsburys?
I’m walking to Tesco express as we speak. We must stop this madness and get me back in the car, speeding to Sydenham big Sainsburys at well over 20mph, ignoring the dastardly camera that snapped me last weekend.
I wonder if you'll do a speed awareness course and be taught about how much safer it is to drive at 20 mph than 30 mph!
The one I did recently was basically all about that. Government approved, of course.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
I mean, where I live, all of those things are less than 15 mins away right now. Is Sunak going to stand outside my house and force me to walk round the block twice before I'm allowed to go to Sainsburys?
I have three Greggs within 15 minutes walk of my flat in Edinburgh. RIP
Countless churches in rural England are going to have be demolished too. Those Methodist chapels get everywhere.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
Given the history of planners designing communities, to get away from (and destroy existing examples of) the kind of “village life” that this describes….
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
The conspiracy theory is "you'll have to Stay In Your Sector, on pain of being fined."
But that is also unhinged.
The thing about an AI is that, if you give it the wrong training set of data, it goes off the rails. Rishibot appears to have been fed the more bonkers bits of the right wing internet.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
Yep - like HS2, being able to walk to the shops or the GP surgery in 15 minutes is now woke.
Anyone who walks anywhere is basically now a traitor.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
Yep - like HS2, being able to walk to the shops or the GP surgery in 15 minutes is now woke.
Anyone who walks anywhere is basically now a traitor.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
The conspiracy is a pretty much Covid grifters looking for a new angle.
Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.
The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.
It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.
It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
Given the history of planners designing communities, to get away from (and destroy existing examples of) the kind of “village life” that this describes….
7,000 pubs gone in the last decade. This attack on walking must be the final nail in the coffin for this great British institution.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
The conspiracy is a pretty much Covid grifters looking for a new angle.
Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.
The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.
It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.
It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.
I think you are describing an LTN, not a 15-minute neighbourhood.
For example, modern housing developments are always LTNs, but very much NOT 15-minute neighbourhoods because the developers never invest in local GPs, dentists, pubs, schools, corner shops...
They expect you to drive to the existing ones on the other side of town, rather undermining the whole point of their LTN development.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
It's very much targeting the significant minority who don't think those on minimum wage ought to be able to afford pets, mental health care, Netflix, holidays, a decent smartphone or a night out a month. These amenities are for the likes of us not them. I found this polling the most eye opening there's been for a long while. It explains much. Scroll past the "people on benefits" bit. They've always been regarded like that. Look at the minimum wage figures.
Certainly, anywhere within easy reach of London, Labour is able to mobilise a lot of resources. And there's truth that the LibDems find it difficult to campaign against both of the main parties at the same time, preferring to establish a two-party contest and then squeeze the support of the other main party, which I suspect is going to be difficult in mid Beds.
The logic of your post, however, is that Labour may well not win - in which case their intervention would simply have saved the seat for the Tories - just as in Finchley at the GE.
My perception, which I've been trying to avoid posting as it's so obviously partisan, is that the LibDems are the spoilers here, by making a major effort in a seat where they started clearly third. I really think that the LibDem habit of fighting every by-election on the basis of "only we can beat the Tories" is unpleasant and ultimately self-defeating (because it undermines their making the same claim in seats where they really ARE the only serious challenger). Describing Labour fighting hard where they're a clear second and the betting favourites as an "intervention" is just, well, partisan.
Not sure of your logic here Nick.
If LDs fight it and Lab don't it is a slam dunk LD win If Lab fight it and LDs don't it is a possible (just possible) Lab win
Why are the LDs the spoilers? Why is it not that Lab are the spoilers?
Seems to me that the same argument could be put to Labour and even more strongly as if it were a two way fight with the Tories the LDs would be more certain winners not Labour.
Also Lib Dems were the favourites until recently when Labour upped their efforts.
If the Tories retain Mid Beds, then the 2nd placed party could reasonably accuse the 3rd placed party of being spoilers. However, the real spoiler will have been FPTP, which the Lib Dems oppose and Labour (at least their leadership) support. So until Labour ditch FPTP they have no right to call any other party spoilers.
My view on Mid Beds is that the result will not tell us very much because there aren't that many 3 way marginals and even fewer that have been involved in By Elections where Labour and the Lib Dems have both been going all out to win. Maybe Eastleigh 1994 and even more so Brecon & Radnor 1985.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of ministers, wonks and special advisors scan the comments for inspiration or ideas.
The 100-200 people who regularly post on here are an influential bunch.
Your 53,000th post.
Tory astroturfers were a feature of Cameron's days, and the great man himself is said to have lurked. A question for @rcs1000 is how many posters' IP addresses change during each party's conference, and then change back?
This absurdly sentimental article about the felled Sycamore seems to have been lifted straight from the PB commentary
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
Yep - like HS2, being able to walk to the shops or the GP surgery in 15 minutes is now woke.
Anyone who walks anywhere is basically now a traitor.
I love the 9% who think those on minimum wage shouldn't be able to afford to get to work. Presumably the moral choice would be to stay at home? Grasping bastards.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
It's very much targeting the significant minority who don't think those on minimum wage ought to be able to afford pets, mental health care, Netflix, holidays, a decent smartphone or a night out a month. These amenities are for the likes of us not them. I found this polling the most eye opening there's been for a long while. It explains much. Scroll past the "people on benefits" bit. They've always been regarded like that. Look at the minimum wage figures.
Are the 15% who think those on benefits should be able to afford private medical care those who think benefits should be much more generous, or extreme libertarians who think that the state shouldn't be involved in healthcare?
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.
“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”
“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”
“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of ministers, wonks and special advisors scan the comments for inspiration or ideas.
The 100-200 people who regularly post on here are an influential bunch.
It's not a great idea, though, as it would be better left to the market. Which is already rapidly consolidating.
If government were serious about improving transport, then it would interest itself in doing something serious about EV charging infrastructure - which is a growing problem.
Or integrating public transport rather than balkanising it.
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.
“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”
“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”
“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”
Etc etc
So, Prime Minister, how does having a school and a GP a short walk away impose restrictions on people?
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.
“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”
“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”
“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”
Etc etc
Surely it is still mandatory that hard working families appears in every phrase the PM utters, or have they u-turned on this too?
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.
“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”
“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”
“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”
Etc etc
So, Prime Minister, how does having a school and a GP a short walk away impose restrictions on people?
“Look, the important thing is that we bring the community with us. I’m a strong believer in giving people a voice. Potholes. Bus lanes. 7 bins”
EDIT: “strong believer in giving HARD WORKING FAMILIES a voice”
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
He'll bring up congestion charges.
There will be something about hard working Brits being fined, when all they want to do is drive to work, take their kids to football practice, or take their Grandma to hospital.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if a lot of ministers, wonks and special advisors scan the comments for inspiration or ideas.
The 100-200 people who regularly post on here are an influential bunch.
My god we could cause havoc by coming up with some batshit ideas. Oh wait....
I've long had the feeling that Marina Hyde has lifted things from here to put in her columns. On one occasion even from me.
Oh, missed that poster. Sure a comedown from halving inflation, stopping the boats and all. But bus lanes? How do we know they're not in use? Till the bus comes along and then gets stuck in the traffic? In which case the lane is no longer in use by a bus?
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
The conspiracy is a pretty much Covid grifters looking for a new angle.
Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.
The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.
It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.
It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.
This is a fair summary. The problem is that the 'this is the thin end of the wedge' criticism is both a) a conspiracy theory AND b) not entirely without merit. If you set off the principle of having cameras recording all traffic movements and only permitting X amount per year, then it isn't too difficult to start changing the rules once the system is in place, using whatever justification you want to come up with. This is quite a fundamental problem and it is unwise to dismiss it as 'conspiracy theory nonsense'.
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.
“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”
“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”
“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”
Etc etc
So, Prime Minister, how does having a school and a GP a short walk away impose restrictions on people?
“Look, the important thing is that we bring the community with us. I’m a strong believer in giving people a voice. Potholes. Bus lanes. 7 bins”
EDIT: “strong believer in giving HARD WORKING FAMILIES a voice”
Us lazy people with lazy families deserve a voice too!
Am I the only one who has never heard of this tree, and really isn't bothered?
A reasonable question, but if someone came and bulldozed, say, New Walk in Leicester, how would you feel? I was really taken with the Walk, and I'm sure the locals would be very upset.
Also the tree symbolises happy outings for so very many folk - such as a holiday Mrs C and I spent staying very near it and roaming the wall.
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.
“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”
“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”
“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”
Etc etc
So, Prime Minister, how does having a school and a GP a short walk away impose restrictions on people?
“Look, the important thing is that we bring the community with us. I’m a strong believer in giving people a voice. Potholes. Bus lanes. 7 bins”
EDIT: “strong believer in giving HARD WORKING FAMILIES a voice”
Us lazy people with lazy families deserve a voice too!
Plus the Tories seem to be much more interested in pensioners anyway, who by definition don't "work"*. He'd need to do something like merging NI and income tax to be taken at all seriously.
* I know, and you know, about the quantity of voluntary work, caring for children and other family members, etc. they do. But this isn't what Mr Sunak would mean by "hard-working" (I assume).
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
Easy, he can (and will) just invent what they’re about and conflate them with LTNs.
“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”
“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”
“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”
Etc etc
So, Prime Minister, how does having a school and a GP a short walk away impose restrictions on people?
“Look, the important thing is that we bring the community with us. I’m a strong believer in giving people a voice. Potholes. Bus lanes. 7 bins”
EDIT: “strong believer in giving HARD WORKING FAMILIES a voice”
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
I mean, where I live, all of those things are less than 15 mins away right now. Is Sunak going to stand outside my house and force me to walk round the block twice before I'm allowed to go to Sainsburys?
I’m walking to Tesco express as we speak. We must stop this madness and get me back in the car, speeding to Sydenham big Sainsburys at well over 20mph, ignoring the dastardly camera that snapped me last weekend.
Brockley is absolutely chocka this afternoon anyway, walking is probably quicker than driving.
Am I the only one who has never heard of this tree, and really isn't bothered?
It's a bit sad but not the end of the world, it is really a local issue though. There is a significant crossover between the people that go on about the climate emergency and those who are distraught by the loss of this tree, they struggle to get things in perspective.
Restaurant owner in UK ‘lost for words’ after digger rams into historic building Harriet Bolland offers reward and Nottinghamshire police appeal for information over incident at Grade II-listed Mucky Duck https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/30/mucky-duck-restaurant-digger-nottinghamshire-police ...Police said the heavy-duty construction vehicle was stolen from Town Street in nearby Clayworth before being used to drive over a pub bench.
The driver then drove into the 18th-century restaurant six times in four different places, leaving a hole in the side of the building.
“We have thought about how and why somebody would do this and it just seems that they were desperate to get us shut down. There’s no other explanation for it,” Bolland said...
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
The conspiracy is a pretty much Covid grifters looking for a new angle.
Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.
The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.
It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.
It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.
I think you are describing an LTN, not a 15-minute neighbourhood.
For example, modern housing developments are always LTNs, but very much NOT 15-minute neighbourhoods because the developers never invest in local GPs, dentists, pubs, schools, corner shops...
IMO that's not true.
Just looking at one of our smallish local developments which has got PP recently:
"... more than £850,000 in developer contributions – including £481,114 for primary school places – will be provided to shore up local services" ... “Countryside Properties will be making contributions towards primary school education, open space, healthcare, libraries and improvements to footpaths. https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/110-new-homes-built-sutton-5688170
Interesting from Zadrozny, in a huff: Cllr Zadrozny, the leader of the council, said: “I can promise in future that developers won’t get a greased sausage through my planning committee without building a better relationship [with the council].
Am I the only one who has never heard of this tree, and really isn't bothered?
A reasonable question, but if someone came and bulldozed, say, New Walk in Leicester, how would you feel? I was really taken with the Walk, and I'm sure the locals would be very upset.
Also the tree symbolises happy outings for so very many folk - such as a holiday Mrs C and I spent staying very near it and roaming the wall.
But little concern is expressed here over other trees, including those planned for the chop for HS2, also centuries old.
I suppose it is symbolic of how much of a decline we are in in some obscure way.
About 6 months ago I was having arguments with 'professionals' who sought to characterise all opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as 'conspiracy theorists' peddeling 'misinformation'. They tried to do the familiar thing where they characterise anyone they disagree with as being abusive with the idea that they should be shut down on the basis of hate speech. In this context it is quite interesting to now see opposition to 15 minute neighbourhoods as forming government policy. Some people just cannot come to terms with democracy.
Er. As I understand it, a 15 minute city is one in which there's a GP surgery, a bus stop, a supermarket, and a pub or cafe within about 15 minutes walk - like a traditional British city. And not building American-style super suburbs without any element of commercial or retail mixed in.
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
The conspiracy is a pretty much Covid grifters looking for a new angle.
Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.
The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.
It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.
It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.
This is a fair summary. The problem is that the 'this is the thin end of the wedge' criticism is both a) a conspiracy theory AND b) not entirely without merit. If you set off the principle of having cameras recording all traffic movements and only permitting X amount per year, then it isn't too difficult to start changing the rules once the system is in place, using whatever justification you want to come up with. This is quite a fundamental problem and it is unwise to dismiss it as 'conspiracy theory nonsense'.
Although the logical extension of that would be no traffic cameras whatsoever. And a ban on CCTV. After all. Where will it end?
Comments
It was only after the 1922 election proved they could continue to win that they turned decisively against.
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4510585#Comment_4510585
*Though, given that austerity hit Local Authorities the hardest, I suspect this is a way to hit one of their few remaining funding streams. Expect more closed libraries, swimming pools, and a yet more decrepit public realm.
A hotline, maybe.
The current Tory promotion of simultaneous contradictions exemplifies this, though they don't do it very well.
He gets my vote as the best option available by far, but over the years he has promoted and defended varying positions to say the least.
YOU'D ENTRUST IT TO THE NATURAL ENEMIES OF THE DRIVER???!!?
WHAT KIND OF A COMMIE/PINKO/LIB DEM/PEDESTRIAN ARE YOU!!!??
Green Party plans to double membership fees amid legal woes
...
The Greens are proposing a 50% increase in membership fees to build funds.
If voted through at the Green Party Conference next week, the cost of being a member will rise from £3.33 a month to £5 a month ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66935750
But wait. Maybe "Sam Francis, political reporter & Helen Catt, political correspondent" are right. After all, 100% is double 50%, right?
https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/helicopter-parking-platform-at-the-oil-plant-helipad-gm1338563122-419103253
Radiotherapy doses for prostate cancer could be cut by three-quarters, trial finds
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/30/radiotherapy-doses-for-prostate-cancer-could-be-cut-by-three-quarters-trial-finds
The Labour Party is made up of many strands, some of which would like nothing more than to see the dictatorship of the proletariat. I wonder if Mr Palmer remembers the government of Jim Callaghan, which was undermined in its final days by the hard left Socialists and their Winter of Discontent? Undermined because Callaghan wasn't being socialist enough for them - and so they paved the way for the disaster that was Thatcherism.
Or indeed the recent leadership of Jeremy Corbyn who posed as the saviour of our relationship with the EU, even though he spent his whole political life opposing it, because it would prevent him fom carrying out a thoroughly Socialist programme?
I do not think there are many disenchanted former Conservatives voters in Mid Beds who are likely to go straight over to voting Labour. Because, quite simply, Labour are not to be trusted. So where do disenchanted Conservative voters go, if not the Lib Dems?
The 100-200 people who regularly post on here are an influential bunch.
I can understand the anxiety about LTNs, even if I disagree with it.
But who is going to have their life made worse by a Fifteen Minute Neighbourhood? That Rishi is sticking his tiny nose in there looks crazy.
Tory astroturfers were a feature of Cameron's days, and the great man himself is said to have lurked. A question for @rcs1000 is how many posters' IP addresses change during each party's conference, and then change back?
So... why would that be subject to conspiracy theories?
Have I missed something obvious here?
ETA: Oh, obviously I have - the BBC are reporting that Dogshit Rishi is going to 'Stop councils implementing "15-minute cities", where essential amenities are always within a 15-minute walk'. WTF?
Could be a vote winner.
Meanwhile the e-bike deliveroo riders are doing their best to scare people out of the new cycle lane.
The one I did recently was basically all about that. Government approved, of course.
Countless churches in rural England are going to have be demolished too. Those Methodist chapels get everywhere.
But that is also unhinged.
The thing about an AI is that, if you give it the wrong training set of data, it goes off the rails. Rishibot appears to have been fed the more bonkers bits of the right wing internet.
Some of the 15 minute City plans involve restrictions on where you can drive. I think Oxford had it that you could drive through the centre of town a couple of hundred times a year, but after that you'd be fined. They wanted people going from one outer zone to another to use ring roads and avoid the centre to cut down congestion.
The conspiracy is that this is a precursor to a "stay in your zone" plan. If we have everything within 15 minutes, they will then stop anyone leaving the zone at all, so the state knows where we are at all times.
It's obviously bollocks, but so many people are down the rabbit hole already, that it's taken a real hold in the post-covid conspiracy theory community.
It's embarrassing that the PM is latching onto it, as it's clearly a dog whistle for conspiracy theorists.
For example, modern housing developments are always LTNs, but very much NOT 15-minute neighbourhoods because the developers never invest in local GPs, dentists, pubs, schools, corner shops...
They expect you to drive to the existing ones on the other side of town, rather undermining the whole point of their LTN development.
These amenities are for the likes of us not them.
I found this polling the most eye opening there's been for a long while. It explains much. Scroll past the "people on benefits" bit. They've always been regarded like that. Look at the minimum wage figures.
https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/45956-what-should-living-standards-look-people-benefits-?redirect_from=/topics/society/articles-reports/2023/08/02/what-should-living-standards-look-people-benefits-
However, the real spoiler will have been FPTP, which the Lib Dems oppose and Labour (at least their leadership) support.
So until Labour ditch FPTP they have no right to call any other party spoilers.
My view on Mid Beds is that the result will not tell us very much because there aren't that many 3 way marginals and even fewer that have been involved in By Elections where Labour and the Lib Dems have both been going all out to win. Maybe Eastleigh 1994 and even more so Brecon & Radnor 1985.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-we-lost-with-the-fallen-sycamore/
Presumably the moral choice would be to stay at home? Grasping bastards.
Imagine Sunak waterskiing the Queensland coast, live, on tv, trying to jump a great white shark just after Bake Off
He’d win the election by a mile. What could Starmer do to beat that? Ride a polar bear to Newent?
You're one of Rishi's advisors, prepping him for a big conference interview.
The question "why are you stopping councils planning Fifteen Minute Neighbourhoods? What's so awful about them?" comes up.
What do you advise your boss to say?
I haven't got a bloody clue.
"So that's two people arrested for Sycamore Gap... just one more and they'll have the tree fellers they're after"
Plan with no downside, only considerable upside.
“Look, I’m a strong believer that you need to bring the community along with you, and there’s a lot of concern about restrictions being imposed on people in towns and villages without their consent. I want to stop that”
“But what exactly is the problem with 15 minute neighbourhoods?”
“Look, as I said I believe strongly that you need to consult with the community rather than just imposing restrictions on them…”
Etc etc
If government were serious about improving transport, then it would interest itself in doing something serious about EV charging infrastructure - which is a growing problem.
Or integrating public transport rather than balkanising it.
But they are not.
What could Starmer do to beat that ?
Ignore it ?
EDIT: “strong believer in giving HARD WORKING FAMILIES a voice”
There will be something about hard working Brits being fined, when all they want to do is drive to work, take their kids to football practice, or take their Grandma to hospital.
The problem is that the 'this is the thin end of the wedge' criticism is both a) a conspiracy theory AND b) not entirely without merit.
If you set off the principle of having cameras recording all traffic movements and only permitting X amount per year, then it isn't too difficult to start changing the rules once the system is in place, using whatever justification you want to come up with.
This is quite a fundamental problem and it is unwise to dismiss it as 'conspiracy theory nonsense'.
Also the tree symbolises happy outings for so very many folk - such as a holiday Mrs C and I spent staying very near it and roaming the wall.
* I know, and you know, about the quantity of voluntary work, caring for children and other family members, etc. they do. But this isn't what Mr Sunak would mean by "hard-working" (I assume).
How a 180km ‘railway to nowhere’ came to symbolize British decline.
https://www.politico.eu/article/united-kingdom-train-hs2-costs-rishi-sunak-david-cameron-keir-starmer/
Harriet Bolland offers reward and Nottinghamshire police appeal for information over incident at Grade II-listed Mucky Duck
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/sep/30/mucky-duck-restaurant-digger-nottinghamshire-police
...Police said the heavy-duty construction vehicle was stolen from Town Street in nearby Clayworth before being used to drive over a pub bench.
The driver then drove into the 18th-century restaurant six times in four different places, leaving a hole in the side of the building.
“We have thought about how and why somebody would do this and it just seems that they were desperate to get us shut down. There’s no other explanation for it,” Bolland said...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/29/kosovo-serbian-troops-buildup-us-uk
Just looking at one of our smallish local developments which has got PP recently:
"... more than £850,000 in developer contributions – including £481,114 for primary school places – will be provided to shore up local services"
...
“Countryside Properties will be making contributions towards primary school education, open space, healthcare, libraries and improvements to footpaths.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/110-new-homes-built-sutton-5688170
Interesting from Zadrozny, in a huff:
Cllr Zadrozny, the leader of the council, said: “I can promise in future that developers won’t get a greased sausage through my planning committee without building a better relationship [with the council].
I suppose it is symbolic of how much of a decline we are in in some obscure way.
After all. Where will it end?