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Sunak – are we approaching the end days? – politicalbetting.com

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  • eekeek Posts: 27,963
    boulay said:



    Hypothetically if there was an empty office block relatively near a school, maybe awaiting permission to be turned into flats or just empty due to WFH changes, how quickly could a school take it over for a temporary period?

    For example would there have to be a million surveys and studies etc for health and safety etc (assuming it was clear of RAAC) and then would there have to be planning meetings for change of use and people nearby complaining about more traffic or is there the possibility to ride a bit roughshod and say “ok it’s not ideal but it’s for a year and we can fit the equivalent of 30 classrooms and a cafeteria set up in it” and just get on with it rather than months of admin and consultations?

    A few special needs schools around here have taken over old office buildings. The conversion still takes over a year...
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,121
    eek said:

    Regarding Birmingham the bill for the equal pay lawsuit is £760m.

    That would bankrupt anyone..

    I would imagine quite a few councils are in a similar position.

    Also there is a case going through against ASDA for the same thing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,603
    Phil said:

    boulay said:

    Phil said:

    Something else that I’d like to see journalists pushing on: there are something like 32,000 state schools in the UK. Replacing 50 a year means it takes 650 years to get through them all. How many school buildings do you know that have a 650 year design life?

    It’s plainly ridiculous on its face. A replacement rate of 50 a year is a joke, a sop to claim that the government is doing something when in fact it is inevitably storing up vast trouble for the future, RAAC or no RAAC.

    Not yet 650 years by my old place still using school buildings that are 636 years old. Oxbridge colleges even older still in use so it can be done - just maybe not glass, steel and concrete boxes that look the part.
    Oxbridge colleges cost a sodding fortune to keep running. Without their endowments, they’d all be bankrupt from the maintenance burden.
    Lovely stone though - especially the Stonesfield "Slate" roofs. I've been to the Stonesfield mine sites for the roofing stuff - still scatters of it visible from the later workings (into the 1920s?). It was once a practical option for the local village schools. Now, not so much.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    eek said:

    Regarding Birmingham the bill for the equal pay lawsuit is £760m.

    That would bankrupt anyone..

    Not the Sunaks, tbf.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,036

    Michael Crick
    @MichaelLCrick
    ·
    11h
    Sad news. Psephologist Michael Steed has died. A research student under David Butler, he later developed a rival type of swing - "Steed swing", as opposed to traditional "Butler swing" - & from 1964 to 2005 helped edit the statistical appendix to the Nuffield election books.

    https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1698831774619410676

    Sad news. He also stood as a Liberal candidate in Manchester Central and Truro in the 1970s.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,588

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    It has AI-art hands. Or TMay has strange hands...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,920
    edited September 2023
    Leon said:

    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel you're a bad loser trying to drain the joy from the victors.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407
    Phil said:

    boulay said:

    Phil said:

    Something else that I’d like to see journalists pushing on: there are something like 32,000 state schools in the UK. Replacing 50 a year means it takes 650 years to get through them all. How many school buildings do you know that have a 650 year design life?

    It’s plainly ridiculous on its face. A replacement rate of 50 a year is a joke, a sop to claim that the government is doing something when in fact it is inevitably storing up vast trouble for the future, RAAC or no RAAC.

    Not yet 650 years by my old place still using school buildings that are 636 years old. Oxbridge colleges even older still in use so it can be done - just maybe not glass, steel and concrete boxes that look the part.
    Oxbridge colleges cost a sodding fortune to keep running. Without their endowments, they’d all be bankrupt from the maintenance burden.
    My comment was slightly tongue in cheek but my less silly point is that I wonder if there has been the wrong philosophy on building schools for a long time. A new school near me opened up two years ago - fabulously modern looking thing with all the bells and whistles except the air con can’t cope in the summer so they were having to send the kids home as the giant walls of glass were slowly roasting the children, which was good for baby eating Tories but less so for the children.

    Maybe school designers should be thinking less of style and awards for design than building very practical buildings out of quality materials that will potential last, if not for 650 years, for 150 years.

    Someone has mentioned here a couple of times having a Macdonalds approach to modular and standard design which I think is a good idea - perhaps the gov should set one up, remaining as majority shareholder and finance the building of a factory that produces the modular parts and trains and employs teams of builders and fitters. If the gov are going to have to pay for x number of schools per year then do it properly and have an element of control over the actual delivery and costs from the inside.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,057
    boulay said:

    Phil said:

    Something else that I’d like to see journalists pushing on: there are something like 32,000 state schools in the UK. Replacing 50 a year means it takes 650 years to get through them all. How many school buildings do you know that have a 650 year design life?

    It’s plainly ridiculous on its face. A replacement rate of 50 a year is a joke, a sop to claim that the government is doing something when in fact it is inevitably storing up vast trouble for the future, RAAC or no RAAC.

    Not yet 650 years by my old place still using school buildings that are 636 years old. Oxbridge colleges even older still in use so it can be done - just maybe not glass, steel and concrete boxes that look the part.
    I'm prepared to bet that in those 630 years some new buildings have been built at that school and the old beuildings have been renovated.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,920
    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel like my assessment of SKS and his handling of the Labour party is correct
    He's trolling.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,603
    edited September 2023
    eristdoof said:

    boulay said:

    Phil said:

    Something else that I’d like to see journalists pushing on: there are something like 32,000 state schools in the UK. Replacing 50 a year means it takes 650 years to get through them all. How many school buildings do you know that have a 650 year design life?

    It’s plainly ridiculous on its face. A replacement rate of 50 a year is a joke, a sop to claim that the government is doing something when in fact it is inevitably storing up vast trouble for the future, RAAC or no RAAC.

    Not yet 650 years by my old place still using school buildings that are 636 years old. Oxbridge colleges even older still in use so it can be done - just maybe not glass, steel and concrete boxes that look the part.
    I'm prepared to bet that in those 630 years some new buildings have been built at that school and the old beuildings have been renovated.
    They don't all sleep together in one big room any more, I'm sure. Or roast each other at the open fireplace. Plus they might even have something as revolutionary as a "science laboratory".
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315
    edited September 2023
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel you're a bad loser trying to drain the joy from the victors.
    How is more Sunakism a victory ?

    Youve just swapped Tweedle Dum for Tweedle Dee it wont actually change anything.
  • eek said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Post Office Inquiry has just got underway again after the summer break.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgijUpaux8X4Nvjx3TmrHhg

    Has Paula Vennells appeared yet? She must be an interesting character.
    No. None of the people one would really like to see at the inquiry have appeared so far. Recently it seems to be mostly legal experts.
    For all the slightly silly ‘force convicts to attend sentencing’ legislation, you’d think compelling fairly obviously culpable people to submit to public enquiry would be at least as pressing an issue.

    It is an incredibly complex case and beyond my tiny smooth brain to comprehend. What isn’t hard to comprehend is the scale of the impact in terms of lives ruined.
    It's not really that complex.

    Software was written and released that had bugs in it.....
    That is a known characteristic of software. It is like saying the sea has fish in it :wink:
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    kinabalu said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel like my assessment of SKS and his handling of the Labour party is correct
    He's trolling.
    I mean, he doesn't have to be. Starmer keeps going out of his way to say he won't reverse the worst of Tory policies. He has ruled out raising money through taxes, slashed the budget for his green investment plans, and was unwilling to back pay rises that even Sunak conceded. I have no reason to believe that Starmer's government will do anything positive - it will try to stabilise and institutionalise the policies the Tories have pushed. What positive policies is he suggesting? What left wing position has he taken (that he hasn't later reneged on)?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,222
    .
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulwaugh

    “We put in a bid for 200 buildings but what Rishi agreed to was to continue the rebuilding programme at 50 a year." Schools minister Nick Gibb on
    @BBCr4today
    .

    Fucking hell. That's quite a thing for a minister to say.

    Can I dream that Gibb will be fired by lunchtime?
    That’s somewhat reminiscent of Sunak’s friends in government, briefing against Truss this time last year.

    Good to see the PM get a taste of his own medicine.
  • 148grss said:

    kinabalu said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel like my assessment of SKS and his handling of the Labour party is correct
    He's trolling.
    I mean, he doesn't have to be. Starmer keeps going out of his way to say he won't reverse the worst of Tory policies. He has ruled out raising money through taxes, slashed the budget for his green investment plans, and was unwilling to back pay rises that even Sunak conceded. I have no reason to believe that Starmer's government will do anything positive - it will try to stabilise and institutionalise the policies the Tories have pushed. What positive policies is he suggesting? What left wing position has he taken (that he hasn't later reneged on)?
    British steel for British warships?
  • eekeek Posts: 27,963

    eek said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Post Office Inquiry has just got underway again after the summer break.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgijUpaux8X4Nvjx3TmrHhg

    Has Paula Vennells appeared yet? She must be an interesting character.
    No. None of the people one would really like to see at the inquiry have appeared so far. Recently it seems to be mostly legal experts.
    For all the slightly silly ‘force convicts to attend sentencing’ legislation, you’d think compelling fairly obviously culpable people to submit to public enquiry would be at least as pressing an issue.

    It is an incredibly complex case and beyond my tiny smooth brain to comprehend. What isn’t hard to comprehend is the scale of the impact in terms of lives ruined.
    It's not really that complex.

    Software was written and released that had bugs in it.....
    That is a known characteristic of software. It is like saying the sea has fish in it :wink:
    If only Post Office management grasped that point and called Fujitsu out on their assertions..
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    eek said:

    boulay said:



    Hypothetically if there was an empty office block relatively near a school, maybe awaiting permission to be turned into flats or just empty due to WFH changes, how quickly could a school take it over for a temporary period?

    For example would there have to be a million surveys and studies etc for health and safety etc (assuming it was clear of RAAC) and then would there have to be planning meetings for change of use and people nearby complaining about more traffic or is there the possibility to ride a bit roughshod and say “ok it’s not ideal but it’s for a year and we can fit the equivalent of 30 classrooms and a cafeteria set up in it” and just get on with it rather than months of admin and consultations?

    A few special needs schools around here have taken over old office buildings. The conversion still takes over a year...
    Depending on the nature of the school, that isn’t necessarily surprising. SEND schools often require a lot of very specialised equipment and access arrangements etc.

    Given the pig’s breakfast this government have made of the SEN/D system (which started reasonably well with proper training and statutory roles for SENCOs that they’ve now decided to completely back track on) a lot of mainstream settings will also change often be catering for kids with serious and complex needs.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
    Am I the only person who likes it and thinks it is far too cool a painting to be for Theresa May?
  • For those saying Slalom Sir Keir has no policies, he has fucking loads of them

    @BenObeseJecty

    Labour’s Policy pledges; a LONG thread 🧵1 /???

    Since 2020 Labour have been writing policy cheques their manifesto can’t cash.

    Hundreds of pledges, most of which they hope you’ll forget about, solely intended to create the feeling of change rather than actually delivering it; the politics of vibes.

    So far I don’t think anybody has tracked them all. I’ve trawled through them so that you don’t have to. Given Keir Starmer’s penchant for reneging on his pledges, most of these have no chance.

    Might be worth bookmarking:

    https://twitter.com/BenObeseJecty/status/1694448649013510165

    He's up to 139 so far

  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel you're a bad loser trying to drain the joy from the victors.
    Unfortunately - for you - it’s true. No income tax rise. No wealth tax. Keeping the two child cap. Lots of flags and patriotism. On and on. They are likely to be more careful with the frightened Tories with the public purse, and MUCH more likely to do audacious privatisationy reforms of the NHS and the welfare system

    They may well get my vote for the very first time

    Sorry

  • TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Very funny but actually if anyone bothered to think about it, it's absolutely true and counts against Lab's point. Or should do for thinking people. Or are you saying that all (or even a huge majority of) beachgoers should be worried about big sharks and mitigation actions put in place on all beaches?
    It’s pretty obviously a Jaws reference and as such right on the nose.
    Jaws did a huge amount of damage or have influence on the public perception of sharks. Poor little sharky warkies getting blamed for everything. That and cellists.
    Aren’t the Tories the mayor in this comparison, and therefore deserving of all the shit currently being pumped into rivers and seas?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    148grss said:

    kinabalu said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel like my assessment of SKS and his handling of the Labour party is correct
    He's trolling.
    I mean, he doesn't have to be. Starmer keeps going out of his way to say he won't reverse the worst of Tory policies. He has ruled out raising money through taxes, slashed the budget for his green investment plans, and was unwilling to back pay rises that even Sunak conceded. I have no reason to believe that Starmer's government will do anything positive - it will try to stabilise and institutionalise the policies the Tories have pushed. What positive policies is he suggesting? What left wing position has he taken (that he hasn't later reneged on)?
    I know. I love it. Go Starmer
  • For those saying Slalom Sir Keir has no policies, he has fucking loads of them

    @BenObeseJecty

    Labour’s Policy pledges; a LONG thread 🧵1 /???

    Since 2020 Labour have been writing policy cheques their manifesto can’t cash.

    Hundreds of pledges, most of which they hope you’ll forget about, solely intended to create the feeling of change rather than actually delivering it; the politics of vibes.

    So far I don’t think anybody has tracked them all. I’ve trawled through them so that you don’t have to. Given Keir Starmer’s penchant for reneging on his pledges, most of these have no chance.

    Might be worth bookmarking:

    https://twitter.com/BenObeseJecty/status/1694448649013510165

    He's up to 139 so far

    Chairman
    @HWGCA
    | PPC GE2019 | Bylines:
    @Telegraph

    @TheTimes

    @ConHome
    | Contributor
    @GBNews
    | Ex-British Army Officer
    @RYORKS_Regt
    |
    @VeteransGovUK
    Member VAPC

    Surely a very impartial observer.

    I recall when Rishi said he'd stop the boats this year, has that been dropped?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,603
    edited September 2023
    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
    Am I the only person who likes it and thinks it is far too cool a painting to be for Theresa May?
    I might actually agree with you. I do wonder however what schools of art would be appropriate for Mr Johnson and Ms Truss.
  • boulay said:

    Phil said:

    boulay said:

    Phil said:

    Something else that I’d like to see journalists pushing on: there are something like 32,000 state schools in the UK. Replacing 50 a year means it takes 650 years to get through them all. How many school buildings do you know that have a 650 year design life?

    It’s plainly ridiculous on its face. A replacement rate of 50 a year is a joke, a sop to claim that the government is doing something when in fact it is inevitably storing up vast trouble for the future, RAAC or no RAAC.

    Not yet 650 years by my old place still using school buildings that are 636 years old. Oxbridge colleges even older still in use so it can be done - just maybe not glass, steel and concrete boxes that look the part.
    Oxbridge colleges cost a sodding fortune to keep running. Without their endowments, they’d all be bankrupt from the maintenance burden.
    My comment was slightly tongue in cheek but my less silly point is that I wonder if there has been the wrong philosophy on building schools for a long time. A new school near me opened up two years ago - fabulously modern looking thing with all the bells and whistles except the air con can’t cope in the summer so they were having to send the kids home as the giant walls of glass were slowly roasting the children, which was good for baby eating Tories but less so for the children.

    Maybe school designers should be thinking less of style and awards for design than building very practical buildings out of quality materials that will potential last, if not for 650 years, for 150 years.

    Someone has mentioned here a couple of times having a Macdonalds approach to modular and standard design which I think is a good idea - perhaps the gov should set one up, remaining as majority shareholder and finance the building of a factory that produces the modular parts and trains and employs teams of builders and fitters. If the gov are going to have to pay for x number of schools per year then do it properly and have an element of control over the actual delivery and costs from the inside.
    I think that makes perfect sense. It is effectively what the Victorians and Edwardians did with school buildings in urban areas. There is a tendency to focus on the bells and whistles and not the core aim i.e. teach children in a healthy and practical environment.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,036
    "Benjamin Netanyahu plans to deport all African migrants from Israel after Eritrean groups involved in violent clashes

    The Israeli prime minister's remarks came a day after violent protests in Tel Aviv left more than 140 people wounded."

    https://news.sky.com/story/benjamin-netanyahu-says-he-wants-all-eritrean-migrants-involved-in-israel-clashes-deported-12953989
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Carnyx said:

    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
    Am I the only person who likes it and thinks it is far too cool a painting to be for Theresa May?
    I might actually agree with you. I do wonder however what schools of art would be appropriate for Mr Johnson and Ms Truss.
    Gerald Scarfe
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,635
    eristdoof said:

    boulay said:

    Phil said:

    Something else that I’d like to see journalists pushing on: there are something like 32,000 state schools in the UK. Replacing 50 a year means it takes 650 years to get through them all. How many school buildings do you know that have a 650 year design life?

    It’s plainly ridiculous on its face. A replacement rate of 50 a year is a joke, a sop to claim that the government is doing something when in fact it is inevitably storing up vast trouble for the future, RAAC or no RAAC.

    Not yet 650 years by my old place still using school buildings that are 636 years old. Oxbridge colleges even older still in use so it can be done - just maybe not glass, steel and concrete boxes that look the part.
    I'm prepared to bet that in those 630 years some new buildings have been built at that school and the old beuildings have been renovated.
    I think that's part of the point.

    Older buildings are in general far simpler in their construction techniques, and so there are fewer surprised beyond the impact of wear and tear.

    The most difficult that may happen is that beam ends could rot, for example - or "updates" have been done which do not reflect the basic way the building is designed to work.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,768
    edited September 2023
    Selebian said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    It has AI-art hands. Or TMay has strange hands...
    It falls into the category of you can see what the painter was trying to do, a bit of a Vorticist 1920s vibe. Unfortunately Wyndham Lewis was a v.good painter, this person isn’t.

    Presumably the painting is Theresa approved?
  • kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Foxy said:

    Cicero said:

    I think Keegan is safe.
    It’s a fuck-up, but she does “human” reasonably ok, which is a rare thing in Tory politics.

    As for Sunak, he is of course fucked.
    Unlike Keegan, he’s *personally* responsible for slashing school repair budgets.

    The Mail AND the Telegraph are turning against him.
    Not just with these front pages, you can see the commentariat start to re-position itself, too.

    Meanwhile, Keir’s re-shuffle has quietly impressed the more thoughtful analysts with its decisive and lack of sentimental focus on being a government-in-waiting.

    I would not rule out a kamikaze leadership bid by Suella Braverman, but not until after next year’s locals.

    In the shorter-term, I think the Tories lose Mid-Beds even if Labour/LD cannot agree who to rally behind.

    Tories third? If so, they are not even in for a 97 shellacking, but something worse...
    Third is very possible. It would be interesting to see a betting market on that.

    Why would anyone vote for this shitshow?
    Because it's in me and my family's interests to do so.

    I don't share the values of SKS, or their hangers-on quite frankly, and I know Labour will be coming for me.
    Playing devil's advocate: why is it bad for Labour to come for you?

    You're apparently in a well-paid job, and have a comfortable life. You live in a society where lots - millions, in fact - of people don't have the advantages you have. Yes, you pay lots of tax. But many of the things that are wrong with this country can only be fixed with an increased tax take - and the question is where that comes from.

    Someone has to pay tax - the question, as always, is how much of the burden falls on which individuals.
    I pay 62% marginal rate on my income at the moment.

    How much would you like me to pay? 70%? 80%? 100%?

    Sentiments like this are stagnating the country and will lead to a brain drain from Britain, which will cost the exchequer not add to it.
    If you're paying the 62% marginal tax rate you earn between £100k and £120k; your take home pay will be around £70-75k? That's double the median average household income; double the average income of a nurse or teacher.
    And about 1/10th that of a senior consultant performing also in private practice.

    So what? Nurses can become investment bankers if they so wish, or project managers.

    It's not like the nursing payscales are a state secret, only revealed upon qualification.
    I am reminded of the Oscar Wilde quote: you know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

    If every nurse had decided to be an investment banker instead, our society wouldn't function. If every investment banker had instead decided to be nurses, whilst I'm sure society would be wildly different, I think it would still function.
    Again, so what. People make choices. Nurses decided to be nurses, knowing the pay scale. If they want to overthrow the current system and pay themselves £1m/yr then go for their lives. Form that party and agitate for it.

    But as it stands, as an 18yr old (or 16yr old) you have the choice of being anything you want.

    Lecherous banker = $$$
    Saintly nurse = not much enough to scrape by, perhaps.


    I don't see what the whining is about. "Oh but nurses earn XX% less than investment bankers (or project managers)" is fatuous in
    the extreme.
    I'd have some time for that argument if being a merchant banker was open to all. It isn't: it's still very much in the who-you-know or which-school-you-went-to style of job.
    Not in my experience
    Privilege is often blind to privilege. That's how it soothes itself.
    Or the fact that I have spent upwards of 25 years in the industry and know who I have hired and who I work with.

    I’m the only English public school kid in my team…
  • For those saying Slalom Sir Keir has no policies, he has fucking loads of them

    @BenObeseJecty

    Labour’s Policy pledges; a LONG thread 🧵1 /???

    Since 2020 Labour have been writing policy cheques their manifesto can’t cash.

    Hundreds of pledges, most of which they hope you’ll forget about, solely intended to create the feeling of change rather than actually delivering it; the politics of vibes.

    So far I don’t think anybody has tracked them all. I’ve trawled through them so that you don’t have to. Given Keir Starmer’s penchant for reneging on his pledges, most of these have no chance.

    Might be worth bookmarking:

    https://twitter.com/BenObeseJecty/status/1694448649013510165

    He's up to 139 so far

    Chairman
    @HWGCA
    | PPC GE2019 | Bylines:
    @Telegraph

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    Member VAPC

    Surely a very impartial observer.

    I recall when Rishi said he'd stop the boats this year, has that been dropped?
    Oh, the xtweeter is certainly not a neutral observer, but every single one of the links in the thread that I’ve seen have been from Labour Party sources

    He’s not making this stuff up

  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,204
    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I doubt there's any prominent political candidate you haven't flirted with voting for. Have little doubt you'll revert to Tory come the election.
  • On topic, part of me increasingly thinks Sunak will not last until the election.

    After Beds, the next by-election is likely to be Tamworth post-Chris Pincher. That will be a hard one for Labour to take - a Red Wall seat with a large Tory majority and in an area where Labour struggled in the local elections. And I do not think they would. If the Conservatives were to keep both Mid-Beds and Tamworth, then there would a decent indication that Labour has not sealed the deal with the electorate.

    Ironically though, that may make Sunak more vulnerable. If Tory MPs think they will lose anyway, they would probably be resigned to keeping Sunak on. However, if they think there is a chance the election is still up for grabs, they are likely to want someone who does well in a GE campaign which is unlikely to be Sunak.

    In that scenario, I would see Hunt stepping up to PM (to solidify the Blue Wall) and appointing a Red Waller as Deputy PM (he teamed up with Esther McVey on his PM campaign for leader last year), and seeing what happens.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,603
    148grss said:

    Carnyx said:

    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
    Am I the only person who likes it and thinks it is far too cool a painting to be for Theresa May?
    I might actually agree with you. I do wonder however what schools of art would be appropriate for Mr Johnson and Ms Truss.
    Gerald Scarfe
    Hadn't thought of that!
  • Don't look at the top bottom line and say we need more top line.

    Look at the top line, look at the bottom, then ask "where is the money going".

    I agree that those who are in crisis are struggling. The problem is that our modern welfare state is not a safety net for those in temporary crisis.

    Our modern welfare state is giving well off individuals, some of whom post on this page, our taxes because "they've paid for it" and they vote.

    Public sector contracts aren't taking the money. The money is going on welfare to those who literally do not need it, while those who do get bugger all.

    First party that accepts that truth, will be able to fund their preference. Whether it is Labour boosting spending, or Tories cutting taxes, stop increasing the rate out taxes go to those who don't need it and you can fund those who do.

    Mega snip to fix Vanilla.

    The big thing we could fix is making work pay. A vast amount of money is spent subsidising crap employers like Asda. Whilst I understand why Brown brought in Tax Credits, they have to go. Corporation Tax is very low yet these big employers are asked for nothing in return.

    CTax is to rise from 19% to 25%. Tell companies they can have it back to 19% if they behave. A 4% cut if they pay a living wage (and thus remove the need for tax credits) and a further 2% cut if they invest in skills.

    Make employers good corporate citizens again, and the welfare bill collapses. Stop subsidising Asda.
    Except that's a myth. How much are you suggesting it should be?

    A childless couple, both full time employees working for ASDA get how much Universal Credit each? Any? None?

    A Part Time single parent working 16 hours a week gets how much?

    Are you suggesting that ASDA should pay a 16 hour a week shelf stacker enough to pay for children without benefits?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,301

    On topic, part of me increasingly thinks Sunak will not last until the election.

    After Beds, the next by-election is likely to be Tamworth post-Chris Pincher. That will be a hard one for Labour to take - a Red Wall seat with a large Tory majority and in an area where Labour struggled in the local elections. And I do not think they would. If the Conservatives were to keep both Mid-Beds and Tamworth, then there would a decent indication that Labour has not sealed the deal with the electorate.

    Ironically though, that may make Sunak more vulnerable. If Tory MPs think they will lose anyway, they would probably be resigned to keeping Sunak on. However, if they think there is a chance the election is still up for grabs, they are likely to want someone who does well in a GE campaign which is unlikely to be Sunak.

    In that scenario, I would see Hunt stepping up to PM (to solidify the Blue Wall) and appointing a Red Waller as Deputy PM (he teamed up with Esther McVey on his PM campaign for leader last year), and seeing what happens.

    Did Labour struggle in the last locals in Tamworth? I thought last time they’d done better, although after a run of doing badly.
  • Catching up on the debate on here this morning the thought has entered my mind for the first time that I might have to seriously consider leaving the country.

    @MaxPB and @Gardenwalker are onto something. And I'm probably a mug.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,588
    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I stayed for a long weekend in early 2017. To be honest, I had forgotten that stretch, although it is very pretty.

    It's lovely, but there are other places I would put on a similar rating.

    (Ludlow was a somewhat accidental location - meetup for uni friends and we Ludlow turned out to be about in the middle of everyone's locations)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,588
    edited September 2023
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I stayed for a long weekend in early 2017. To be honest, I had forgotten that stretch, although it is very pretty.

    It's lovely, but there are other places I would put on a similar rating.

    (Ludlow was a somewhat accidental location - meetup for uni friends and we Ludlow turned out to be about in the middle of everyone's locations)
    ETA: Re Starmer, we'll see. I fear he'll do much the same but look more regretful while doing it (and possibly dial down the rhetoric and have fewer loons in cabinet). I'll take it, for now, before the glorious yellow-peril revolution of 2029 :wink: Who knows, maybe he'll surprise on the upside.

    ETA: Clearly I hit the reply rather than edit button, so edited to remove the first, erroneous, 'ETA' :disappointed:
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,119
    148grss said:

    kinabalu said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel like my assessment of SKS and his handling of the Labour party is correct
    He's trolling.
    I mean, he doesn't have to be. Starmer keeps going out of his way to say he won't reverse the worst of Tory policies. He has ruled out raising money through taxes, slashed the budget for his green investment plans, and was unwilling to back pay rises that even Sunak conceded. I have no reason to believe that Starmer's government will do anything positive - it will try to stabilise and institutionalise the policies the Tories have pushed. What positive policies is he suggesting? What left wing position has he taken (that he hasn't later reneged on)?
    Surely Starmer is just doing the 'don't frighten the voters' act right now. As soon as the 100+ majority is in the bag, a quick review of government finances reveals 'its all far worse than we thought, so sorry folks, but tax has to go up to pay for it. Blame Sunak'.
  • So this am we have one PB righty suggesting he may leave the UK because of SKS’s red in tooth and claw socialism while another might consider voting for SKS* because of his crypto Toryism. Funny ol world as Anabozina might say.

    *dear reader, he did not.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,501
    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Post Office Inquiry has just got underway again after the summer break.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgijUpaux8X4Nvjx3TmrHhg

    Has Paula Vennells appeared yet? She must be an interesting character.
    No. None of the people one would really like to see at the inquiry have appeared so far. Recently it seems to be mostly legal experts.
    For all the slightly silly ‘force convicts to attend sentencing’ legislation, you’d think compelling fairly obviously culpable people to submit to public enquiry would be at least as pressing an issue.

    It is an incredibly complex case and beyond my tiny smooth brain to comprehend. What isn’t hard to comprehend is the scale of the impact in terms of lives ruined.
    Is actually really fucking simple

    1) they commissioned a new accounting system
    2) it was shit and multiple/phantom transaction s were being recorded all over the place
    3) based on the bullshit data they started prosecuting people
    4) some people suggested there was a problem with the system
    5) they were stamped on by managers who’d nailed their trousers to the success of the new system.
    6) more of 4)
    7) more of 5)
    8) keep looping for a while
    :
    126) the problem is now totally obvious and the managers are lying to everyone. Including concealing evidence from courts.

    In my professional opinion, Vir said all that needs to be said.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,301
    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I stayed for a long weekend in early 2017. To be honest, I had forgotten that stretch, although it is very pretty.

    It's lovely, but there are other places I would put on a similar rating.

    (Ludlow was a somewhat accidental location - meetup for uni friends and we Ludlow turned out to be about in the middle of everyone's locations)
    Went to a wedding there a few years ago. Lovely place, and memorable church, if only because the church warden congratulated us on keeping more or less to time; the last time they’d had “stranger” wedding it had run about two hours over.
    The marriage didn’t last though.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,501

    So this am we have one PB righty suggesting he may leave the UK because of SKS’s red in tooth and claw socialism while another might consider voting for SKS* because of his crypto Toryism. Funny ol world as Anabozina might say.

    *dear reader, he did not.

    Starmer is mastering Blairite triangulation.
  • Catching up on the debate on here this morning the thought has entered my mind for the first time that I might have to seriously consider leaving the country.

    @MaxPB and @Gardenwalker are onto something. And I'm probably a mug.

    Man up. I've had to put up with your lot for 13 years.
    At least if you do leave please promise you will maintain the venerable expat PB tradition of commenting vociferously on British political affairs that don't affect you at all from your low tax bolthole.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,603

    So this am we have one PB righty suggesting he may leave the UK because of SKS’s red in tooth and claw socialism while another might consider voting for SKS* because of his crypto Toryism. Funny ol world as Anabozina might say.

    *dear reader, he did not.

    What's the point of Brexit when the Brexiters emigrate? A koan to compare with the sound of one hand clapping.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,588
    Carnyx said:

    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
    Am I the only person who likes it and thinks it is far too cool a painting to be for Theresa May?
    I might actually agree with you. I do wonder however what schools of art would be appropriate for Mr Johnson and Ms Truss.
    Surrealism in the case of Truss.

    Ceci n'est pas un PM
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,204

    Catching up on the debate on here this morning the thought has entered my mind for the first time that I might have to seriously consider leaving the country.

    @MaxPB and @Gardenwalker are onto something. And I'm probably a mug.

    You've left it 10 years too late I reckon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,501

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Foxy said:

    Cicero said:

    I think Keegan is safe.
    It’s a fuck-up, but she does “human” reasonably ok, which is a rare thing in Tory politics.

    As for Sunak, he is of course fucked.
    Unlike Keegan, he’s *personally* responsible for slashing school repair budgets.

    The Mail AND the Telegraph are turning against him.
    Not just with these front pages, you can see the commentariat start to re-position itself, too.

    Meanwhile, Keir’s re-shuffle has quietly impressed the more thoughtful analysts with its decisive and lack of sentimental focus on being a government-in-waiting.

    I would not rule out a kamikaze leadership bid by Suella Braverman, but not until after next year’s locals.

    In the shorter-term, I think the Tories lose Mid-Beds even if Labour/LD cannot agree who to rally behind.

    Tories third? If so, they are not even in for a 97 shellacking, but something worse...
    Third is very possible. It would be interesting to see a betting market on that.

    Why would anyone vote for this shitshow?
    Because it's in me and my family's interests to do so.

    I don't share the values of SKS, or their hangers-on quite frankly, and I know Labour will be coming for me.
    Playing devil's advocate: why is it bad for Labour to come for you?

    You're apparently in a well-paid job, and have a comfortable life. You live in a society where lots - millions, in fact - of people don't have the advantages you have. Yes, you pay lots of tax. But many of the things that are wrong with this country can only be fixed with an increased tax take - and the question is where that comes from.

    Someone has to pay tax - the question, as always, is how much of the burden falls on which individuals.
    I pay 62% marginal rate on my income at the moment.

    How much would you like me to pay? 70%? 80%? 100%?

    Sentiments like this are stagnating the country and will lead to a brain drain from Britain, which will cost the exchequer not add to it.
    If you're paying the 62% marginal tax rate you earn between £100k and £120k; your take home pay will be around £70-75k? That's double the median average household income; double the average income of a nurse or teacher.
    And about 1/10th that of a senior consultant performing also in private practice.

    So what? Nurses can become investment bankers if they so wish, or project managers.

    It's not like the nursing payscales are a state secret, only revealed upon qualification.
    I am reminded of the Oscar Wilde quote: you know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

    If every nurse had decided to be an investment banker instead, our society wouldn't function. If every investment banker had instead decided to be nurses, whilst I'm sure society would be wildly different, I think it would still function.
    Again, so what. People make choices. Nurses decided to be nurses, knowing the pay scale. If they want to overthrow the current system and pay themselves £1m/yr then go for their lives. Form that party and agitate for it.

    But as it stands, as an 18yr old (or 16yr old) you have the choice of being anything you want.

    Lecherous banker = $$$
    Saintly nurse = not much enough to scrape by, perhaps.


    I don't see what the whining is about. "Oh but nurses earn XX% less than investment bankers (or project managers)" is fatuous in
    the extreme.
    I'd have some time for that argument if being a merchant banker was open to all. It isn't: it's still very much in the who-you-know or which-school-you-went-to style of job.
    Not in my experience
    Privilege is often blind to privilege. That's how it soothes itself.
    Or the fact that I have spent upwards of 25 years in the industry and know who I have hired and who I work with.

    I’m the only English public school kid in my team…
    I’m the only born British passport holder in my team. And that isn’t especially uncommon these days in the City.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,963

    Don't look at the top bottom line and say we need more top line.

    Look at the top line, look at the bottom, then ask "where is the money going".

    I agree that those who are in crisis are struggling. The problem is that our modern welfare state is not a safety net for those in temporary crisis.

    Our modern welfare state is giving well off individuals, some of whom post on this page, our taxes because "they've paid for it" and they vote.

    Public sector contracts aren't taking the money. The money is going on welfare to those who literally do not need it, while those who do get bugger all.

    First party that accepts that truth, will be able to fund their preference. Whether it is Labour boosting spending, or Tories cutting taxes, stop increasing the rate out taxes go to those who don't need it and you can fund those who do.

    Mega snip to fix Vanilla.

    The big thing we could fix is making work pay. A vast amount of money is spent subsidising crap employers like Asda. Whilst I understand why Brown brought in Tax Credits, they have to go. Corporation Tax is very low yet these big employers are asked for nothing in return.

    CTax is to rise from 19% to 25%. Tell companies they can have it back to 19% if they behave. A 4% cut if they pay a living wage (and thus remove the need for tax credits) and a further 2% cut if they invest in skills.

    Make employers good corporate citizens again, and the welfare bill collapses. Stop subsidising Asda.
    Except that's a myth. How much are you suggesting it should be?

    A childless couple, both full time employees working for ASDA get how much Universal Credit each? Any? None?

    A Part Time single parent working 16 hours a week gets how much?

    Are you suggesting that ASDA should pay a 16 hour a week shelf stacker enough to pay for children without benefits?
    No but a full time worker should be paid enough...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,301

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The Post Office Inquiry has just got underway again after the summer break.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgijUpaux8X4Nvjx3TmrHhg

    Has Paula Vennells appeared yet? She must be an interesting character.
    No. None of the people one would really like to see at the inquiry have appeared so far. Recently it seems to be mostly legal experts.
    For all the slightly silly ‘force convicts to attend sentencing’ legislation, you’d think compelling fairly obviously culpable people to submit to public enquiry would be at least as pressing an issue.

    It is an incredibly complex case and beyond my tiny smooth brain to comprehend. What isn’t hard to comprehend is the scale of the impact in terms of lives ruined.
    Is actually really fucking simple

    1) they commissioned a new accounting system
    2) it was shit and multiple/phantom transaction s were being recorded all over the place
    3) based on the bullshit data they started prosecuting people
    4) some people suggested there was a problem with the system
    5) they were stamped on by managers who’d nailed their trousers to the success of the new system.
    6) more of 4)
    7) more of 5)
    8) keep looping for a while
    :
    126) the problem is now totally obvious and the managers are lying to everyone. Including concealing evidence from courts.

    In my professional opinion, Vir said all that needs to be said.

    You’ll divert Ms Cyclefree from whatever she’s involved with at the moment!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,635

    On topic, part of me increasingly thinks Sunak will not last until the election.

    After Beds, the next by-election is likely to be Tamworth post-Chris Pincher. That will be a hard one for Labour to take - a Red Wall seat with a large Tory majority and in an area where Labour struggled in the local elections. And I do not think they would. If the Conservatives were to keep both Mid-Beds and Tamworth, then there would a decent indication that Labour has not sealed the deal with the electorate.

    Ironically though, that may make Sunak more vulnerable. If Tory MPs think they will lose anyway, they would probably be resigned to keeping Sunak on. However, if they think there is a chance the election is still up for grabs, they are likely to want someone who does well in a GE campaign which is unlikely to be Sunak.

    In that scenario, I would see Hunt stepping up to PM (to solidify the Blue Wall) and appointing a Red Waller as Deputy PM (he teamed up with Esther McVey on his PM campaign for leader last year), and seeing what happens.

    Did Labour struggle in the last locals in Tamworth? I thought last time they’d done better, although after a run of doing badly.
    Since Tamworth was Labour 1997-2010, I can see it flipping to a centrist Labour individual, if that is what they have as candidate.
  • So this am we have one PB righty suggesting he may leave the UK because of SKS’s red in tooth and claw socialism while another might consider voting for SKS* because of his crypto Toryism. Funny ol world as Anabozina might say.

    *dear reader, he did not.

    Starmer is mastering Blairite triangulation.
    He’s trying to replicate it, dunno if he’s mastering it. I don’t think he’s got the left corner on board as much as the master did.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,036
    "@SimonClarkeMP

    Birmingham joins a long list of Labour run councils that have gone bust - Croydon, Nottingham, Slough.
    This year councils’ core spending power rose 9.2%.
    It is not good enough for councils to claim poverty - they need proper leadership and innovation."

    https://twitter.com/SimonClarkeMP/status/1699009786711269463
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    rkrkrk said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I doubt there's any prominent political candidate you haven't flirted with voting for. Have little doubt you'll revert to Tory come the election.
    No I won’t

    I seldom vote Tory because I live in Camden and St Pancras. A Tory vote is entirely wasted

    I sometimes go Lib Dem in a bid to unseat Labour but it never works

    This time I won’t vote Lib Dem because

    1. They are even Wokier than Labour
    2. They are more likely to sabotage brilliant Brexit

    Also I’m increasingly minded to give Starmer a massive majority. So he can push through much needed reforms. The country needs a reboot. I don’t mind who does it. Starmer sounds serious about public sector revamps. As does Streeting - “the NHS is not a religion”

    Also Starmer would be my MP which is neat

    So I am absolutely serious. As things stand I will vote Labour as the better alternative of two centre right parties. Ta-da

  • Off-topic:

    Just came back from a short bike ride and nipped into my local shop. Cash only, as their Internet system was down again (not because of cable thieves this time...)

    But on leaving, I came across a man with a Boa Constrictor around his neck. We chatted, and for the first time in my life I held a snake. Not how I expected it to feel, and I'm still smiling.

    People are weird - who takes their snake on a walk to the shop? But people are also awesome. :)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,301
    Andy_JS said:

    "@SimonClarkeMP

    Birmingham joins a long list of Labour run councils that have gone bust - Croydon, Nottingham, Slough.
    This year councils’ core spending power rose 9.2%.
    It is not good enough for councils to claim poverty - they need proper leadership and innovation."

    https://twitter.com/SimonClarkeMP/status/1699009786711269463

    Don’t forget Tory run Thurrock!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,036
    edited September 2023

    On topic, part of me increasingly thinks Sunak will not last until the election.

    After Beds, the next by-election is likely to be Tamworth post-Chris Pincher. That will be a hard one for Labour to take - a Red Wall seat with a large Tory majority and in an area where Labour struggled in the local elections. And I do not think they would. If the Conservatives were to keep both Mid-Beds and Tamworth, then there would a decent indication that Labour has not sealed the deal with the electorate.

    Ironically though, that may make Sunak more vulnerable. If Tory MPs think they will lose anyway, they would probably be resigned to keeping Sunak on. However, if they think there is a chance the election is still up for grabs, they are likely to want someone who does well in a GE campaign which is unlikely to be Sunak.

    In that scenario, I would see Hunt stepping up to PM (to solidify the Blue Wall) and appointing a Red Waller as Deputy PM (he teamed up with Esther McVey on his PM campaign for leader last year), and seeing what happens.

    Did Labour struggle in the last locals in Tamworth? I thought last time they’d done better, although after a run of doing badly.
    They did better this year than previous years, but still only won the popular vote in the town itself by 43.9% to 36.5%, and the constituency also includes about 15,000 voters in very safe Tory areas which would certainly wipe out that lead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Tamworth_Borough_Council_election
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,710

    Selebian said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    It has AI-art hands. Or TMay has strange hands...
    It falls into the category of you can see what the painter was trying to do, a bit of a Vorticist 1920s vibe. Unfortunately Wyndham Lewis was a v.good painter, this person isn’t.

    Presumably the painting is Theresa approved?
    Yes it's hardly Praxitella.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557

    148grss said:

    kinabalu said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel like my assessment of SKS and his handling of the Labour party is correct
    He's trolling.
    I mean, he doesn't have to be. Starmer keeps going out of his way to say he won't reverse the worst of Tory policies. He has ruled out raising money through taxes, slashed the budget for his green investment plans, and was unwilling to back pay rises that even Sunak conceded. I have no reason to believe that Starmer's government will do anything positive - it will try to stabilise and institutionalise the policies the Tories have pushed. What positive policies is he suggesting? What left wing position has he taken (that he hasn't later reneged on)?
    Surely Starmer is just doing the 'don't frighten the voters' act right now. As soon as the 100+ majority is in the bag, a quick review of government finances reveals 'its all far worse than we thought, so sorry folks, but tax has to go up to pay for it. Blame Sunak'.
    I’m resigned to taxes going up anyway. But I increasingly believe Starmer is serious about wealth creation and growing the economy so he won’t overdo it. Look at all his new Blairite appointments

    What do the Tories offer? The Lib Dems? Fuck all

    Let’s all get together and give Starmer a 150 seat majority and say Go on then, you have the tools, now fix it

  • Carnyx said:

    148grss said:

    Carnyx said:

    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
    Am I the only person who likes it and thinks it is far too cool a painting to be for Theresa May?
    I might actually agree with you. I do wonder however what schools of art would be appropriate for Mr Johnson and Ms Truss.
    Gerald Scarfe
    Hadn't thought of that!
    Nothing new under the sun:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_Winston_Churchill_(Sutherland)

    "In 1978, it was reported that Lady Spencer-Churchill had destroyed the painting within a year of its arrival at Chartwell, by breaking it into pieces and having them incinerated to prevent it from causing further distress to her husband."

    Arise Sir Philip. You know you want to...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,588
    edited September 2023

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I stayed for a long weekend in early 2017. To be honest, I had forgotten that stretch, although it is very pretty.

    It's lovely, but there are other places I would put on a similar rating.

    (Ludlow was a somewhat accidental location - meetup for uni friends and we Ludlow turned out to be about in the middle of everyone's locations)
    Went to a wedding there a few years ago. Lovely place, and memorable church, if only because the church warden congratulated us on keeping more or less to time; the last time they’d had “stranger” wedding it had run about two hours over.
    The marriage didn’t last though.
    An acquaintance of mine says he married in Haste* and repents at leisure (he is still married - as far as I know, happily)

    *a real place in Germany; he has a German wife - the German pronunciation wouldn't work, clearly
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407

    Catching up on the debate on here this morning the thought has entered my mind for the first time that I might have to seriously consider leaving the country.

    @MaxPB and @Gardenwalker are onto something. And I'm probably a mug.

    Man up. I've had to put up with your lot for 13 years.
    At least if you do leave please promise you will maintain the venerable expat PB tradition of commenting vociferously on British political affairs that don't affect you at all from your low tax bolthole.
    Cool, so this needs to be a British site for British people. Will you avoid commenting on foreign political affairs that don’t affect you as well - going to be a bit quiet during the US presidential election here.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,036
    "Have the Tories learned anything from Liz Truss?
    The party is set to repeat the pattern that led to her election a year ago.
    By David Gauke"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2023/09/liz-truss-one-year
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,338
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    kinabalu said:

    148grss said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel like my assessment of SKS and his handling of the Labour party is correct
    He's trolling.
    I mean, he doesn't have to be. Starmer keeps going out of his way to say he won't reverse the worst of Tory policies. He has ruled out raising money through taxes, slashed the budget for his green investment plans, and was unwilling to back pay rises that even Sunak conceded. I have no reason to believe that Starmer's government will do anything positive - it will try to stabilise and institutionalise the policies the Tories have pushed. What positive policies is he suggesting? What left wing position has he taken (that he hasn't later reneged on)?
    Surely Starmer is just doing the 'don't frighten the voters' act right now. As soon as the 100+ majority is in the bag, a quick review of government finances reveals 'its all far worse than we thought, so sorry folks, but tax has to go up to pay for it. Blame Sunak'.
    I’m resigned to taxes going up anyway. But I increasingly believe Starmer is serious about wealth creation and growing the economy so he won’t overdo it. Look at all his new Blairite appointments

    What do the Tories offer? The Lib Dems? Fuck all

    Let’s all get together and give Starmer a 150 seat majority and say Go on then, you have the tools, now fix it

    You sound serious, I'll give you that.

    However, I'd wager a fair amount that you will find some reason to revert come the GE.

    I guess there's a chance I might be wrong, though.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,338

    Off-topic:

    Just came back from a short bike ride and nipped into my local shop. Cash only, as their Internet system was down again (not because of cable thieves this time...)

    But on leaving, I came across a man with a Boa Constrictor around his neck. We chatted, and for the first time in my life I held a snake. Not how I expected it to feel, and I'm still smiling.

    People are weird - who takes their snake on a walk to the shop? But people are also awesome. :)

    In brief:

    You went to a shop, had a horrible experience, and also held a snake.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315
    Andy_JS said:

    "Have the Tories learned anything from Liz Truss?
    The party is set to repeat the pattern that led to her election a year ago.
    By David Gauke"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2023/09/liz-truss-one-year

    LOL Gauke is a bit of a slug and more than happy to knife his colleagues when it suits him
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,036
    edited September 2023
    "£100m cost of botched IT system
    Birmingham Council leader John Cotton has said he wants to be transparent over costs

    Another issue adding to the council's financial woes is its Oracle IT system. Council leader John Cotton said earlier this year "the total cost may run to £100m" in order to fix problems. The IT issues have been affecting payments, data management and background checks. The Oracle system was brought in to overhaul internal functions including payments and HR processes. According to a council report, the authority was meant to change such processes to fit Oracle's requirements. Instead, another approach was taken and the problems emerged. It is estimated the final cost to put things right is in the region of £100m, with the report requesting £46.53m this year to fund."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-birmingham-66717957


    "A flawed IT system at Birmingham City Council has led to a primary school being visited by bailiffs and staff not being paid, a governor says.

    Oracle deals with payroll, invoices and HR, and other council-run schools in the city are facing similar issues, governor Nigel Smith said. A lease firm tried to seize minibuses used by the school via the council after payments were not made or lost. The council accepted there had been issues and was trying to correct them."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-65715415
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,301
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I stayed for a long weekend in early 2017. To be honest, I had forgotten that stretch, although it is very pretty.

    It's lovely, but there are other places I would put on a similar rating.

    (Ludlow was a somewhat accidental location - meetup for uni friends and we Ludlow turned out to be about in the middle of everyone's locations)
    Went to a wedding there a few years ago. Lovely place, and memorable church, if only because the church warden congratulated us on keeping more or less to time; the last time they’d had “stranger” wedding it had run about two hours over.
    The marriage didn’t last though.
    An acquaintance of mine says he married in Haste* and repents at leisure (he is still married - as far as I know, happily)

    *a real place in Germany, he has a German wife - the German pronunciation wouldn't work, clearly
    Like. The bride at the wedding we went to was the daughter of a cousin. The groom was Irish. His family were great; he was obviously the black sheep. Never liked him.
    Still, she got well away and seems happy now.
  • Carnyx said:

    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
    Am I the only person who likes it and thinks it is far too cool a painting to be for Theresa May?
    I might actually agree with you. I do wonder however what schools of art would be appropriate for Mr Johnson and Ms Truss.
    Please refer to my avatar.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,121

    Andy_JS said:

    "@SimonClarkeMP

    Birmingham joins a long list of Labour run councils that have gone bust - Croydon, Nottingham, Slough.
    This year councils’ core spending power rose 9.2%.
    It is not good enough for councils to claim poverty - they need proper leadership and innovation."

    https://twitter.com/SimonClarkeMP/status/1699009786711269463

    Don’t forget Tory run Thurrock!
    Tory run Northamptonshire too, IIRC.

    Hardly fair to blame Labour for the mess in Birmingham, this affects the council going back many years over various different regimes.

    Central govt should not bail them out. The local council tax payers should foot the bill.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,121
    Leon said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I doubt there's any prominent political candidate you haven't flirted with voting for. Have little doubt you'll revert to Tory come the election.
    No I won’t

    I seldom vote Tory because I live in Camden and St Pancras. A Tory vote is entirely wasted

    I sometimes go Lib Dem in a bid to unseat Labour but it never works

    This time I won’t vote Lib Dem because

    1. They are even Wokier than Labour
    2. They are more likely to sabotage brilliant Brexit

    Also I’m increasingly minded to give Starmer a massive majority. So he can push through much needed reforms. The country needs a reboot. I don’t mind who does it. Starmer sounds serious about public sector revamps. As does Streeting - “the NHS is not a religion”

    Also Starmer would be my MP which is neat

    So I am absolutely serious. As things stand I will vote Labour as the better alternative of two centre right parties. Ta-da

    It's rNHS, not the NHS !!!!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,204
    Leon said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Leon said:

    Ludlow not getting any uglier. Pevsner called this stretch of street “unforgettable”



    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    I doubt there's any prominent political candidate you haven't flirted with voting for. Have little doubt you'll revert to Tory come the election.
    No I won’t

    I seldom vote Tory because I live in Camden and St Pancras. A Tory vote is entirely wasted

    I sometimes go Lib Dem in a bid to unseat Labour but it never works

    This time I won’t vote Lib Dem because

    1. They are even Wokier than Labour
    2. They are more likely to sabotage brilliant Brexit

    Also I’m increasingly minded to give Starmer a massive majority. So he can push through much needed reforms. The country needs a reboot. I don’t mind who does it. Starmer sounds serious about public sector revamps. As does Streeting - “the NHS is not a religion”

    Also Starmer would be my MP which is neat

    So I am absolutely serious. As things stand I will vote Labour as the better alternative of two centre right parties. Ta-da

    You came out for Corbyn too at one point I think.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,920

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel you're a bad loser trying to drain the joy from the victors.
    How is more Sunakism a victory ?

    Youve just swapped Tweedle Dum for Tweedle Dee it wont actually change anything.
    C'mon. 'Two cheeks of the same arse' yada yada yawn yawn.

    I do understand the ‘not inspired by Labour’ sentiment. They are following the NL playbook (for opposing the dying fag-end of a period of Tory rule) to the letter except with a far less charismatic leader. It’s about taking no risks. ‘This is our election to lose. Let’s not oblige.’ This is what Keir says to himself last thing at night and first thing every morning. It makes total sense, it’s going to pay off in spades with a big majority, but bazball (stazball?) it isn’t. So, yes, I get the lack of enthusiasm. I feel it myself tbh.

    But what I’m not having is this ‘they’ll be no better than the tories’ nonsense. After the scandal of Johnson and the farce of Truss the bar is so low it’s underground. A new Labour government under SKS clears it simply by not being a shambolic cesspit. To predict they’ll not manage even this is a stupid thing to say. It’s either pure partisanship from dedicated tory supporters and right wing ideologues, or sour grapes from sulking Corbynites, or (and I think there’s quite a lot of this) it’s ‘unaligned moderate’ types channelling Shania to signal their ‘that don’t impress me much’ lofty detachment from any political party.
  • Off-topic:

    Just came back from a short bike ride and nipped into my local shop. Cash only, as their Internet system was down again (not because of cable thieves this time...)

    But on leaving, I came across a man with a Boa Constrictor around his neck. We chatted, and for the first time in my life I held a snake. Not how I expected it to feel, and I'm still smiling.

    People are weird - who takes their snake on a walk to the shop? But people are also awesome. :)

    In brief:

    You went to a shop, had a horrible experience, and also held a snake.
    Nope. It wasn't a horrible experience, as I keep an emergency £20 with my mobile phone. And the staff, as always, were very pleasant to chat to. Quite a pleasant experience, in fact.

    If you want to try to abridge something, at least get the substance correct. ;)
  • IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    I’m not sure exactly what the problem is with Heathener’s posts according to some. Yes they’re very Labour-biased/anti-Tory but then lots of posts are pro-Tory and they don’t have the same predictable replies.

    This site is as its best when we have a variety of opinions, I really think the attacking of Heathener really has gone on too long when the posts are far more interesting to read than “why is everything so woke” or “aliens” or “COVID was started in a lab this far-right blog post says so”.

    Heathener has been saying for some time that things are worse for the Tories than the consensus accepts.

    I think that may well be the case. Not least because even though Starmer lacks charisma, he has a ruthlessness and organisational ability that gets stronger all the time.

    I don't think that bodes well for government, as all governments need to listen, but it is going to win him a significant majority.
    Stepping back from the immediate scandal, and the bigger news is the contrast between Starmer promoting a bunch of his moderates - some of them pretty unpopular with the rank and file - into an election-winning team while Sunak is still lumbered with most of the ideological dross and numpties that he inherited from the clown, and is apparently powerless to dump them.

    How many times has Sunak’s promised reshuffle been postponed now?
    Oh do piss off. Sunak owns this. 'The adults' came back into the room, and effed it up worse than 'the kids' - trying to blame this on the remnants of Bojo's cabinet is truly desperate spin.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315
    edited September 2023
    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@SimonClarkeMP

    Birmingham joins a long list of Labour run councils that have gone bust - Croydon, Nottingham, Slough.
    This year councils’ core spending power rose 9.2%.
    It is not good enough for councils to claim poverty - they need proper leadership and innovation."

    https://twitter.com/SimonClarkeMP/status/1699009786711269463

    Don’t forget Tory run Thurrock!
    Tory run Northamptonshire too, IIRC.

    Hardly fair to blame Labour for the mess in Birmingham, this affects the council going back many years over various different regimes.

    Central govt should not bail them out. The local council tax payers should foot the bill.
    It might not be fair but isnt that what Labour is doing on RAAC ? Sauce for the goose etc.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,603
    edited September 2023

    Carnyx said:

    148grss said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JAHeale
    Theresa May’s parliamentary painting just dropped


    The new Doctor Who looks shit.
    Unbelievable. When this popped up on PB last night I thought it was some AI generated thing our @Leon had set up.

    Seems it is the real official portrait for HoC.
    The state of this country!
    Am I the only person who likes it and thinks it is far too cool a painting to be for Theresa May?
    I might actually agree with you. I do wonder however what schools of art would be appropriate for Mr Johnson and Ms Truss.
    Please refer to my avatar.
    TJhis might be a suitable line of thought for Mr JOhnson's portrait ...

    https://fineartamerica.com/featured/yelloways-seagull-coach-mike-jeffries.html
  • boulay said:

    Catching up on the debate on here this morning the thought has entered my mind for the first time that I might have to seriously consider leaving the country.

    @MaxPB and @Gardenwalker are onto something. And I'm probably a mug.

    Man up. I've had to put up with your lot for 13 years.
    At least if you do leave please promise you will maintain the venerable expat PB tradition of commenting vociferously on British political affairs that don't affect you at all from your low tax bolthole.
    Cool, so this needs to be a British site for British people. Will you avoid commenting on foreign political affairs that don’t affect you as well - going to be a bit quiet during the US presidential election here.
    Yes I am so against him commenting on British politics if he moves abroad that I (checks post) literally asked him to do it. Epic comprehension and sense of humour fail on your part, keep up the good work!
  • IanB2 said:

    A stunning day to be in the Alps, not a cloud anywhere, brilliantly clear, and just enough breeze to make hiking a pleasure.

    I hope the UK is by now enjoying the heat


    Took me a while to realise that wasn’t a rock in the foreground 😁
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,315
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel you're a bad loser trying to drain the joy from the victors.
    How is more Sunakism a victory ?

    Youve just swapped Tweedle Dum for Tweedle Dee it wont actually change anything.
    C'mon. 'Two cheeks of the same arse' yada yada yawn yawn.

    I do understand the ‘not inspired by Labour’ sentiment. They are following the NL playbook (for opposing the dying fag-end of a period of Tory rule) to the letter except with a far less charismatic leader. It’s about taking no risks. ‘This is our election to lose. Let’s not oblige.’ This is what Keir says to himself last thing at night and first thing every morning. It makes total sense, it’s going to pay off in spades with a big majority, but bazball (stazball?) it isn’t. So, yes, I get the lack of enthusiasm. I feel it myself tbh.

    But what I’m not having is this ‘they’ll be no better than the tories’ nonsense. After the scandal of Johnson and the farce of Truss the bar is so low it’s underground. A new Labour government under SKS clears it simply by not being a shambolic cesspit. To predict they’ll not manage even this is a stupid thing to say. It’s either pure partisanship from dedicated tory supporters and right wing ideologues, or sour grapes from sulking Corbynites, or (and I think there’s quite a lot of this) it’s ‘unaligned moderate’ types channelling Shania to signal their ‘that don’t impress me much’ lofty detachment from any political party.
    Have what you will, but Starmer is a manager type same as Sunak. Hell get a short honeymoon as they all do and then hell be stuck with the same problems as Sunak and the same responses. And since this time the buck stops with him the weight of the media will be calling him out for all sorts of things.

    Shambolic cesspit ahoy.
  • I can't see "Don't vote Labour - they're just as bad as we are" being a winning strategy for the Conservatives.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    Ludlow was the headquarters of a Commodore 64 user magazine called Zzap 64 that I read between the ages of 11 and 13 and so in my mind it is impossibly modern and cool. I've never been there.

    One of the editors went on to found TED Talks and the guy who did the cover art, I recently discovered, was known for his illustrations in gay porn mags in the same period. Which retrospectively makes my immediate pre-teen years sound far more exciting than they actually were.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407

    boulay said:

    Catching up on the debate on here this morning the thought has entered my mind for the first time that I might have to seriously consider leaving the country.

    @MaxPB and @Gardenwalker are onto something. And I'm probably a mug.

    Man up. I've had to put up with your lot for 13 years.
    At least if you do leave please promise you will maintain the venerable expat PB tradition of commenting vociferously on British political affairs that don't affect you at all from your low tax bolthole.
    Cool, so this needs to be a British site for British people. Will you avoid commenting on foreign political affairs that don’t affect you as well - going to be a bit quiet during the US presidential election here.
    Yes I am so against him commenting on British politics if he moves abroad that I (checks post) literally asked him to do it. Epic comprehension and sense of humour fail on your part, keep up the good work!
    I think it was quite clear that you were criticising “expats” commenting on British political affairs with the resulting subtext that we should mind our own business.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,920

    So this am we have one PB righty suggesting he may leave the UK because of SKS’s red in tooth and claw socialism while another might consider voting for SKS* because of his crypto Toryism. Funny ol world as Anabozina might say.

    *dear reader, he did not.

    Starmer is mastering Blairite triangulation.
    He’s trying to replicate it, dunno if he’s mastering it. I don’t think he’s got the left corner on board as much as the master did.
    I'd say he has the party under control but the 'left corner' are still bubbling. I guess because they had the reins not that long ago. The change has been pretty quick and brutal.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,709
    @paulwaugh

    @RachelReevesMP
    fires a Treasury Qs zinger:
    "I know that in the lead up to the 2021 spending review the DFE made a submission to the Treasury about the dangerous deteriorating school estate, including from RAAC. These warnings were ignored by the then Chancellor, the current PM”

    Reeves asked Hunt to publish that DfE submission in full. Feels like Labour have been briefed on the contents of the submission....and that this will come out one way or another.
  • kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Foxy said:

    Cicero said:

    I think Keegan is safe.
    It’s a fuck-up, but she does “human” reasonably ok, which is a rare thing in Tory politics.

    As for Sunak, he is of course fucked.
    Unlike Keegan, he’s *personally* responsible for slashing school repair budgets.

    The Mail AND the Telegraph are turning against him.
    Not just with these front pages, you can see the commentariat start to re-position itself, too.

    Meanwhile, Keir’s re-shuffle has quietly impressed the more thoughtful analysts with its decisive and lack of sentimental focus on being a government-in-waiting.

    I would not rule out a kamikaze leadership bid by Suella Braverman, but not until after next year’s locals.

    In the shorter-term, I think the Tories lose Mid-Beds even if Labour/LD cannot agree who to rally behind.

    Tories third? If so, they are not even in for a 97 shellacking, but something worse...
    Third is very possible. It would be interesting to see a betting market on that.

    Why would anyone vote for this shitshow?
    Because it's in me and my family's interests to do so.

    I don't share the values of SKS, or their hangers-on quite frankly, and I know Labour will be coming for me.
    Playing devil's advocate: why is it bad for Labour to come for you?

    You're apparently in a well-paid job, and have a comfortable life. You live in a society where lots - millions, in fact - of people don't have the advantages you have. Yes, you pay lots of tax. But many of the things that are wrong with this country can only be fixed with an increased tax take - and the question is where that comes from.

    Someone has to pay tax - the question, as always, is how much of the burden falls on which individuals.
    I pay 62% marginal rate on my income at the moment.

    How much would you like me to pay? 70%? 80%? 100%?

    Sentiments like this are stagnating the country and will lead to a brain drain from Britain, which will cost the exchequer not add to it.
    If you're paying the 62% marginal tax rate you earn between £100k and £120k; your take home pay will be around £70-75k? That's double the median average household income; double the average income of a nurse or teacher.
    And about 1/10th that of a senior consultant performing also in private practice.

    So what? Nurses can become investment bankers if they so wish, or project managers.

    It's not like the nursing payscales are a state secret, only revealed upon qualification.
    I am reminded of the Oscar Wilde quote: you know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

    If every nurse had decided to be an investment banker instead, our society wouldn't function. If every investment banker had instead decided to be nurses, whilst I'm sure society would be wildly different, I think it would still function.
    Again, so what. People make choices. Nurses decided to be nurses, knowing the pay scale. If they want to overthrow the current system and pay themselves £1m/yr then go for their lives. Form that party and agitate for it.

    But as it stands, as an 18yr old (or 16yr old) you have the choice of being anything you want.

    Lecherous banker = $$$
    Saintly nurse = not much enough to scrape by, perhaps.


    I don't see what the whining is about. "Oh but nurses earn XX% less than investment bankers (or project managers)" is fatuous in
    the extreme.
    I'd have some time for that argument if being a merchant banker was open to all. It isn't: it's still very much in the who-you-know or which-school-you-went-to style of job.
    Not in my experience
    Privilege is often blind to privilege. That's how it soothes itself.
    Or the fact that I have spent upwards of 25 years in the industry and know who I have hired and who I work with.

    I’m the only English public school kid in my team…
    I’m the only born British passport holder in my team. And that isn’t especially uncommon these days in the City.
    We are around 15-20% British

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,338

    Off-topic:

    Just came back from a short bike ride and nipped into my local shop. Cash only, as their Internet system was down again (not because of cable thieves this time...)

    But on leaving, I came across a man with a Boa Constrictor around his neck. We chatted, and for the first time in my life I held a snake. Not how I expected it to feel, and I'm still smiling.

    People are weird - who takes their snake on a walk to the shop? But people are also awesome. :)

    In brief:

    You went to a shop, had a horrible experience, and also held a snake.
    Nope. It wasn't a horrible experience, as I keep an emergency £20 with my mobile phone. And the staff, as always, were very pleasant to chat to. Quite a pleasant experience, in fact.

    If you want to try to abridge something, at least get the substance correct. ;)
    Yeah, it was a joke. I had thought that much was obvious...
  • Good afternoon

    Having been very busy this morning the first story I read when I go back online is Birmingham City Council have gone bankrupt

    Where on earth is this all going to end

    Birmingham City Council effectively declares bankruptcy after being hit by £760m bill

    Birmingham City Council has formally declared itself in financial distress - confirming in a statement that all new spending, with the exception of protecting vulnerable people and statutory services, must stop immediately.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407

    boulay said:

    Catching up on the debate on here this morning the thought has entered my mind for the first time that I might have to seriously consider leaving the country.

    @MaxPB and @Gardenwalker are onto something. And I'm probably a mug.

    Man up. I've had to put up with your lot for 13 years.
    At least if you do leave please promise you will maintain the venerable expat PB tradition of commenting vociferously on British political affairs that don't affect you at all from your low tax bolthole.
    Cool, so this needs to be a British site for British people. Will you avoid commenting on foreign political affairs that don’t affect you as well - going to be a bit quiet during the US presidential election here.
    Yes I am so against him commenting on British politics if he moves abroad that I (checks post) literally asked him to do it. Epic comprehension and sense of humour fail on your part, keep up the good work!
    Actually I am wrong and did jump to wrong end of stick so sorry.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,121

    Good afternoon

    Having been very busy this morning the first story I read when I go back online is Birmingham City Council have gone bankrupt

    Where on earth is this all going to end

    Birmingham City Council effectively declares bankruptcy after being hit by £760m bill

    Birmingham City Council has formally declared itself in financial distress - confirming in a statement that all new spending, with the exception of protecting vulnerable people and statutory services, must stop immediately.

    The Brummie Council Tax Payers need to put their hands in their pockets.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,920
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, Starmer’s Labour are now so right wing I am tempted to vote for them as ideologically preferable to the Tories. I dunno how that makes PB lefties feel….

    It makes me feel you're a bad loser trying to drain the joy from the victors.
    Unfortunately - for you - it’s true. No income tax rise. No wealth tax. Keeping the two child cap. Lots of flags and patriotism. On and on. They are likely to be more careful with the frightened Tories with the public purse, and MUCH more likely to do audacious privatisationy reforms of the NHS and the welfare system

    They may well get my vote for the very first time

    Sorry
    Lol - and my name's Miranda. Don't want that vote and am rather confident of not getting it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,121

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@SimonClarkeMP

    Birmingham joins a long list of Labour run councils that have gone bust - Croydon, Nottingham, Slough.
    This year councils’ core spending power rose 9.2%.
    It is not good enough for councils to claim poverty - they need proper leadership and innovation."

    https://twitter.com/SimonClarkeMP/status/1699009786711269463

    Don’t forget Tory run Thurrock!
    Tory run Northamptonshire too, IIRC.

    Hardly fair to blame Labour for the mess in Birmingham, this affects the council going back many years over various different regimes.

    Central govt should not bail them out. The local council tax payers should foot the bill.
    It might not be fair but isnt that what Labour is doing on RAAC ? Sauce for the goose etc.
    Isn't the current RAAC issue more the govt knew about it and did not plan for it. Sunak cutting the budget, for example, more they contributed to the issue.

    I feel sorry for Keegan, she has just been handed the shit end of the stick and is trying to deal with something that is not her fault.

    It was a cheap thing of ITV news to do yesterday as well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,920

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    TOPPING said:

    148grss said:

    Foxy said:

    Cicero said:

    I think Keegan is safe.
    It’s a fuck-up, but she does “human” reasonably ok, which is a rare thing in Tory politics.

    As for Sunak, he is of course fucked.
    Unlike Keegan, he’s *personally* responsible for slashing school repair budgets.

    The Mail AND the Telegraph are turning against him.
    Not just with these front pages, you can see the commentariat start to re-position itself, too.

    Meanwhile, Keir’s re-shuffle has quietly impressed the more thoughtful analysts with its decisive and lack of sentimental focus on being a government-in-waiting.

    I would not rule out a kamikaze leadership bid by Suella Braverman, but not until after next year’s locals.

    In the shorter-term, I think the Tories lose Mid-Beds even if Labour/LD cannot agree who to rally behind.

    Tories third? If so, they are not even in for a 97 shellacking, but something worse...
    Third is very possible. It would be interesting to see a betting market on that.

    Why would anyone vote for this shitshow?
    Because it's in me and my family's interests to do so.

    I don't share the values of SKS, or their hangers-on quite frankly, and I know Labour will be coming for me.
    Playing devil's advocate: why is it bad for Labour to come for you?

    You're apparently in a well-paid job, and have a comfortable life. You live in a society where lots - millions, in fact - of people don't have the advantages you have. Yes, you pay lots of tax. But many of the things that are wrong with this country can only be fixed with an increased tax take - and the question is where that comes from.

    Someone has to pay tax - the question, as always, is how much of the burden falls on which individuals.
    I pay 62% marginal rate on my income at the moment.

    How much would you like me to pay? 70%? 80%? 100%?

    Sentiments like this are stagnating the country and will lead to a brain drain from Britain, which will cost the exchequer not add to it.
    If you're paying the 62% marginal tax rate you earn between £100k and £120k; your take home pay will be around £70-75k? That's double the median average household income; double the average income of a nurse or teacher.
    And about 1/10th that of a senior consultant performing also in private practice.

    So what? Nurses can become investment bankers if they so wish, or project managers.

    It's not like the nursing payscales are a state secret, only revealed upon qualification.
    I am reminded of the Oscar Wilde quote: you know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

    If every nurse had decided to be an investment banker instead, our society wouldn't function. If every investment banker had instead decided to be nurses, whilst I'm sure society would be wildly different, I think it would still function.
    Again, so what. People make choices. Nurses decided to be nurses, knowing the pay scale. If they want to overthrow the current system and pay themselves £1m/yr then go for their lives. Form that party and agitate for it.

    But as it stands, as an 18yr old (or 16yr old) you have the choice of being anything you want.

    Lecherous banker = $$$
    Saintly nurse = not much enough to scrape by, perhaps.


    I don't see what the whining is about. "Oh but nurses earn XX% less than investment bankers (or project managers)" is fatuous in
    the extreme.
    I'd have some time for that argument if being a merchant banker was open to all. It isn't: it's still very much in the who-you-know or which-school-you-went-to style of job.
    Not in my experience
    Privilege is often blind to privilege. That's how it soothes itself.
    Or the fact that I have spent upwards of 25 years in the industry and know who I have hired and who I work with.

    I’m the only English public school kid in my team…
    Who heads that team then?
  • Something else that might usefully be transferred to the British Museum for safe keeping:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-66714547
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    On topic, part of me increasingly thinks Sunak will not last until the election.

    After Beds, the next by-election is likely to be Tamworth post-Chris Pincher. That will be a hard one for Labour to take - a Red Wall seat with a large Tory majority and in an area where Labour struggled in the local elections. And I do not think they would. If the Conservatives were to keep both Mid-Beds and Tamworth, then there would a decent indication that Labour has not sealed the deal with the electorate.

    Ironically though, that may make Sunak more vulnerable. If Tory MPs think they will lose anyway, they would probably be resigned to keeping Sunak on. However, if they think there is a chance the election is still up for grabs, they are likely to want someone who does well in a GE campaign which is unlikely to be Sunak.

    In that scenario, I would see Hunt stepping up to PM (to solidify the Blue Wall) and appointing a Red Waller as Deputy PM (he teamed up with Esther McVey on his PM campaign for leader last year), and seeing what happens.

    Did Labour struggle in the last locals in Tamworth? I thought last time they’d done better, although after a run of doing badly.
    Again points to the relatively uselessness of ‘Red Wall’ as a descriptor. Tamworth is a bellwether seat, as was its predecessor.

    Just lazy journalese for shithole place north of Watford (in their view).

    The closest you’d get to a real definition would be somewhere like Don Valley (I type this at my my dad’s house, a few doors down from Nick Fletcher’s constituency office). Somewhere working class that had always been reliably Labour but with 20%+ Shire Tory rump and a proclivity to small-C conservativism manifesting in votes for UKIP or other fringe right wingers.

    Places like Bury, Tamworth, Pudsey,

This discussion has been closed.