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Is Nicola Sturgeon an agent of MI5? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,720
edited August 2023 in General
imageIs Nicola Sturgeon an agent of MI5? – politicalbetting.com

Yes, the headline is a shameless attempt to enter the QTWTAIN hall of fame/shame but it does raise an interesting point. MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world, they have form for infiltrating organisations who wish break up and destroy the United Kingdom, famously with the IRA and prior to that the world changing Double-Cross system in World War II when every German agent in the UK was turned, so it would be no surprise if MI5 infiltrated the SNP in eyes of some SNP supporters not just former MSP Campbell Martin.

Read the full story here

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    Did Prince William go to Holyrood?
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    Polling for Australian Indigenous Voice is interesting.

    Started with huge support for Yes but now looks likely that No will win.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Australian_Indigenous_Voice_referendum

    Yes which would be shock for Australia on a par with Brexit here.

    Looks like Victoria, Tasmania (and NT and ACT will vote for) but South Australia, NSW and overwhelmingly Western Australia and Queensland will vote against
    No, you're showing your lack of knowledge again, it won't be that much of a shock.

    Almost every proposed referendum in Australian history has failed. Referendums failing down-under is the norm, not a shock.

    Robert Menzies famously once said The truth of the matter is that to get an affirmative vote from the Australian people on a referendum proposal is one of the labours of Hercules.
    Of course it would be a shock especially given the big Yes lead at the start of the campaign and also show deep cultural divisions in Australia on the extent of wokeness and its history
    No, it won't.

    The truth is that referenda in Australia have typically followed such a pattern. Its something I studied, in school, down-under in the 90s (ie prior to the republic referendum). Its a well known and well understood phenomenon. The same happened with the republic referendum, started with large Yes poll leads, then became the typical No by the time of the poll.

    So please stop trying to pretend otherwise.
    If you think a No win in the indigenous voice referendum, a cornerstone of his government's platform and key for the left liberal cultural elites in Australia won't send a torpedo through his government then you are being naive.

    It would be even more a populist rejection of urban elites than Brexit. What Albanese should have done is get a cross party commission including Aboriginal leaders to agree a consultative body all could support but he didn't
    I never said it wouldn't be a rejection of Albanese's government or his agenda.

    I said it wouldn't a shock.

    Those are two very different things.

    Australians have a long (for them) tradition of bloody mindedness and rejecting what their leaders want. Between that and the double-majority clause of the constitution requiring 4/6 states to pass it, that's why almost every referendum in Australia's entire history has failed, with 1999 being rather unique in that the PM also wanted it to fail.

    Anyone shocked if this latest referendum fails is only shocked because they're pig-ignorant of Australia's history. Not because it'd be shocking.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,743
    On topic - Sturgeon is an agent of *MI6*, the CIA and the Lizard People.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    I imagine it's hardly a majority view, but I guess for a few people it's just easier to blame state agents than face the reality that Independence remains a tough, division issue which Scotland is split about 50/50 on at the moment.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211
    Yougov has Yes on just 42%, even lower than the 45% they got in 2014 pre Brexit.

    MI5 involvement or not with the SNP also having fallen in the polls and Sturgeon replaced by the hapless Yousaf it does not look good for Scottish Nationalists
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    edited August 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MikeL said:

    Polling for Australian Indigenous Voice is interesting.

    Started with huge support for Yes but now looks likely that No will win.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2023_Australian_Indigenous_Voice_referendum

    Yes which would be shock for Australia on a par with Brexit here.

    Looks like Victoria, Tasmania (and NT and ACT will vote for) but South Australia, NSW and overwhelmingly Western Australia and Queensland will vote against
    No, you're showing your lack of knowledge again, it won't be that much of a shock.

    Almost every proposed referendum in Australian history has failed. Referendums failing down-under is the norm, not a shock.

    Robert Menzies famously once said The truth of the matter is that to get an affirmative vote from the Australian people on a referendum proposal is one of the labours of Hercules.
    Of course it would be a shock especially given the big Yes lead at the start of the campaign and also show deep cultural divisions in Australia on the extent of wokeness and its history
    No, it won't.

    The truth is that referenda in Australia have typically followed such a pattern. Its something I studied, in school, down-under in the 90s (ie prior to the republic referendum). Its a well known and well understood phenomenon. The same happened with the republic referendum, started with large Yes poll leads, then became the typical No by the time of the poll.

    So please stop trying to pretend otherwise.
    If you think a No win in the indigenous voice referendum, a cornerstone of his government's platform and key for the left liberal cultural elites in Australia won't send a torpedo through his government then you are being naive.

    It would be even more a populist rejection of urban elites than Brexit. What Albanese should have done is get a cross party commission including Aboriginal leaders to agree a consultative body all could support but he didn't
    I never said it wouldn't be a rejection of Albanese's government or his agenda.

    I said it wouldn't a shock.

    Those are two very different things.

    Australians have a long (for them) tradition of bloody mindedness and rejecting what their leaders want. Between that and the double-majority clause of the constitution requiring 4/6 states to pass it, that's why almost every referendum in Australia's entire history has failed, with 1999 being rather unique in that the PM also wanted it to fail.

    Anyone shocked if this latest referendum fails is only shocked because they're pig-ignorant of Australia's history. Not because it'd be shocking.
    I only know of it from the occasional BBC write ups, so only really at the superficial level, but if it is rejected then I can imagine their write up being very disappointed indeed.

    The Aussies haven't had a PM last 4 years since 2007 though, so for the sake of stable politics I'd hope for their sakes if it is lost it indeed doesn't derail the PM.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    kle4 said:

    I imagine it's hardly a majority view, but I guess for a few people it's just easier to blame state agents than face the reality that Independence remains a tough, division issue which Scotland is split about 50/50 on at the moment.

    As a related issue I don't recall people thinking Remainers were actually agents of the EU, since the accusation would have been they didn't need to be as they were openly working for them rather the UK or whatever.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    edited August 2023
    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they are infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,377
    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    I did menton Double-Cross from WWII which was better than turning the head of the IRA’s Nutting Squad into an agent of the British State.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    Any newspaper or commentator or PBer who invokes Jim Sillars as a primary source or opinion former is really asking not to be taken seriously.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,377
    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has Yes on just 42%, even lower than the 45% they got in 2014 pre Brexit.

    MI5 involvement or not with the SNP also having fallen in the polls and Sturgeon replaced by the hapless Yousaf it does not look good for Scottish Nationalists


    Questions that HYUFD runs away from answering, part of a long series.

    How much lower is No than the 55% they got in 2014?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    I did menton Double-Cross from WWII which was better than turning the head of the IRA’s Nutting Squad into an agent of the British State.
    Yes, but I don't think today's MI:5 will have much institutional memory on how they managed all that!
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    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has Yes on just 42%, even lower than the 45% they got in 2014 pre Brexit.

    MI5 involvement or not with the SNP also having fallen in the polls and Sturgeon replaced by the hapless Yousaf it does not look good for Scottish Nationalists


    Questions that HYUFD runs away from answering, part of a long series.

    How much lower is No than the 55% they got in 2014?
    Also: always omits the DKs, without making it clear by including the No figure. As again trhis afternoon.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,743
    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they are infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    I think @TSE is pointing out that “British Intelligence” lives, rent free, in heads around the world.

    The number of times they get mentioned on the Moscow comedy programs, for example…
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059
    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    TBF WoS does like to make a speciality of using his opponents' sources to do a hatchet job on them. Complete with links. I used to point this out to anyone who poohpoohed him on PB. It's been quite something to see at least one of those poohpoohers suddenly start regularly citing Wings. Can't think why.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they are infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    I think @TSE is pointing out that “British Intelligence” lives, rent free, in heads around the world.

    The number of times they get mentioned on the Moscow comedy programs, for example…
    I think the Iranians do so quite a bit too.

    I've always thought its part a hangover from the old Imperial days, and part looking to pin blame on a figurehead of the 'The West' without having to blame the americans all the time, so is also even a bit diplomatically useful.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    TBF WoS does like to make a speciality of using his opponents' sources to do a hatchet job on them. Complete with links. I used to point this out to anyone who poohpoohed him on PB. It's been quite something to see at least one of those poohpoohers suddenly start regularly citing Wings. Can't think why.
    In fairness as you say his pieces, often a bit overlong, do tend to come with a lots of images, citations and quotes, so they can have some substance in that regard. But I doubt even the man himself would claim a lack of bias!
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    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they are infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    I think @TSE is pointing out that “British Intelligence” lives, rent free, in heads around the world.

    The number of times they get mentioned on the Moscow comedy programs, for example…
    To be fair, Russian politicians have so debased, ostracised and weakened Russia that it would make sense if it later turned out that Vladimir Putin was a British agent sent to ensure that Russia could be disarmed without starting World War 3.

    It makes about as much sense as anything else Russia has done for decades.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059
    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    I'm actually surprised you've never heard of her. Much touted on PB as the latest hammer of the Nationalists, etc. etc. every time there is a Slab leadership election. Completely at odds with the rest of Slab on Trident and its replacement.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,743
    A
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    TBF WoS does like to make a speciality of using his opponents' sources to do a hatchet job on them. Complete with links. I used to point this out to anyone who poohpoohed him on PB. It's been quite something to see at least one of those poohpoohers suddenly start regularly citing Wings. Can't think why.
    Always take Pooh Pooh seriously…


    General Melchett:
    Is this true, Blackadder? Did Captain Darling pooh-pooh you?

    Captain Blackadder:
    Well, perhaps a little.

    General Melchett:
    Well, then, damn it all! What more evidence do you need? The pooh-poohing alone is a court martial offense!

    Captain Blackadder:
    I can assure you, sir, that the pooh-poohing was purely circumstantial.

    General Melchett:
    Well, I hope so, Blackadder. You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    TBF WoS does like to make a speciality of using his opponents' sources to do a hatchet job on them. Complete with links. I used to point this out to anyone who poohpoohed him on PB. It's been quite something to see at least one of those poohpoohers suddenly start regularly citing Wings. Can't think why.
    In fairness as you say his pieces, often a bit overlong, do tend to come with a lots of images, citations and quotes, so they can have some substance in that regard. But I doubt even the man himself would claim a lack of bias!
    Oh, they're very useful if one remembers something and wants to get back to the original source.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    You are Winnie the Pooh?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,211
    edited August 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has Yes on just 42%, even lower than the 45% they got in 2014 pre Brexit.

    MI5 involvement or not with the SNP also having fallen in the polls and Sturgeon replaced by the hapless Yousaf it does not look good for Scottish Nationalists


    Questions that HYUFD runs away from answering, part of a long series.

    How much lower is No than the 55% they got in 2014?
    Face it, the SNP had maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity to go for Scexit maybe even UDI when Boris was PM and delivered Brexit. Sturgeon failed to do so and has now gone, the SNP poll ratings are collapsing under hapless Yousaf and we are heading for a unionist UK Labour government also making big gains at SNP expense in Scotland in polls.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,087
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    I'm actually surprised you've never heard of her. Much touted on PB as the latest hammer of the Nationalists, etc. etc. every time there is a Slab leadership election. Completely at odds with the rest of Slab on Trident and its replacement.
    I cannot guarantee it had not entered my mind at some point and then been discarded. Unfortunately there's been quite a few such prospects.

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    Supposedly they do look into that as a risk.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,061

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    So being a cunning linguist might be your downfall?
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    boulay said:

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    So being a cunning linguist might be your downfall?
    Often has been.
  • Options

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    You didn't go to Eton, or Oxbridge, and you are not a semi-alcoholic. No way you would be accepted as a spy in this country.

    The Federal Security Services however may well be pleased to hear from you. Why don't you have a word with one of those Russian trolls that pop up here from time to time?
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,552
    The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed one of Russia's 65 Tu-22M3 long range bomber aircraft with a UAV that hit a Russian airbase in Novgorod. These bombers have been used to fire long-range missiles at Ukraine from as far away as the Caspian Sea.

    There's been a large expansion in Ukraine's home-produced drone capability this year. A capability that isn't subject to the restriction not to hit targets in Russia that applies to weapons supplied by NATO countries.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,743

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they are infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    I think @TSE is pointing out that “British Intelligence” lives, rent free, in heads around the world.

    The number of times they get mentioned on the Moscow comedy programs, for example…
    To be fair, Russian politicians have so debased, ostracised and weakened Russia that it would make sense if it later turned out that Vladimir Putin was a British agent sent to ensure that Russia could be disarmed without starting World War 3.

    It makes about as much sense as anything else Russia has done for decades.
    Sidney Riley still haunts them.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,743

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    Who was the politician who asked for a copy of the KGB blackmail movie of him (the politician) with his mistress? So he could publish it himself and become a legend to his people.
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    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    Who was the politician who asked for a copy of the KGB blackmail movie of him (the politician) with his mistress? So he could publish it himself and become a legend to his people.
    Not sure but it sounds like the sort of thing Bob Boothby would have got up to.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,679
    edited August 2023

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    Who was the politician who asked for a copy of the KGB blackmail movie of him (the politician) with his mistress? So he could publish it himself and become a legend to his people.
    My head says John Stonehouse but I have doubts.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,377
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has Yes on just 42%, even lower than the 45% they got in 2014 pre Brexit.

    MI5 involvement or not with the SNP also having fallen in the polls and Sturgeon replaced by the hapless Yousaf it does not look good for Scottish Nationalists


    Questions that HYUFD runs away from answering, part of a long series.

    How much lower is No than the 55% they got in 2014?
    Face it, the SNP had maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity to go for Scexit maybe even UDI when Boris was PM and delivered Brexit. Sturgeon failed to do so and has now gone, the SNP poll ratings are collapsing under hapless Yousaf and we are heading for a unionist UK Labour government also making big gains at SNP expense in Scotland in polls.

    A lorra words, still too cowardly to answer the question.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,743

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed one of Russia's 65 Tu-22M3 long range bomber aircraft with a UAV that hit a Russian airbase in Novgorod. These bombers have been used to fire long-range missiles at Ukraine from as far away as the Caspian Sea.

    There's been a large expansion in Ukraine's home-produced drone capability this year. A capability that isn't subject to the restriction not to hit targets in Russia that applies to weapons supplied by NATO countries.

    #RedStormRising

    In the book, the US/U.K. plan a cruise missile strike to hit the Russian TU-22 bases just as they return from an attack and refuel.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,377
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    I'm actually surprised you've never heard of her. Much touted on PB as the latest hammer of the Nationalists, etc. etc. every time there is a Slab leadership election. Completely at odds with the rest of Slab on Trident and its replacement.
    I believe the same people were swooning over Murdo Fraser during the Salmond enquiry, which tells ypu all you need to know about their judgment.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,059
    edited August 2023

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    I'm actually surprised you've never heard of her. Much touted on PB as the latest hammer of the Nationalists, etc. etc. every time there is a Slab leadership election. Completely at odds with the rest of Slab on Trident and its replacement.
    I believe the same people were swooning over Murdo Fraser during the Salmond enquiry, which tells ypu all you need to know about their judgment.
    And forget the argument about why you and I weren't supporting England - apparently Ra Celtic are supposed to support Rangers now. I'm keeping well out of that argument, though I rather suspect that if I lived in Glasgow I'd buy a Partick Thistle scarf as camouflage.

    https://www.thenational.scot/sport/23733332.celtic-fans-root-rangers-champions-league-play-off/
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    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    I'm actually surprised you've never heard of her. Much touted on PB as the latest hammer of the Nationalists, etc. etc. every time there is a Slab leadership election. Completely at odds with the rest of Slab on Trident and its replacement.
    I believe the same people were swooning over Murdo Fraser during the Salmond enquiry, which tells ypu all you need to know about their judgment.
    I believe it demonstrates that the standard of politics in Scotland is about as high as the standard of Scottish football on the world stage?

    Its hardly as if there's titans on the opposite side to Fraser now, is there?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,743
    FPT

    Just spent some time in Rijeka while wandering around Croatia a bit.

    For those who don’t know, it used to be Fiume. Large Italian population and quite a separate identity from the rest of Croatia.

    The locals wanted (largely) a multi-ethnic Free State. And no, this isn’t to be confused with D'Annunzio little proto Fascist comedy of trying to turn Fiume into a part of Italy (semi-detached).

    After WWII, Tito was initially in favour of autonomy - since the those if favour of that option had fought with the Partisans against the Germans. Then he noticed that ethnic cleansing was in fashion (see movement of Poland, elimination of East Prussia). The leaders of the autonomy movement were murdered, and the local ethnic Italian population were pushed out of the country. All traces of Fiume as a separate identity were wiped out.

    Facts on the ground, eh?

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,231

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed one of Russia's 65 Tu-22M3 long range bomber aircraft with a UAV that hit a Russian airbase in Novgorod. These bombers have been used to fire long-range missiles at Ukraine from as far away as the Caspian Sea.

    There's been a large expansion in Ukraine's home-produced drone capability this year. A capability that isn't subject to the restriction not to hit targets in Russia that applies to weapons supplied by NATO countries.

    Ukraine will come out of this as a major European power in its own right.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,377

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    I'm actually surprised you've never heard of her. Much touted on PB as the latest hammer of the Nationalists, etc. etc. every time there is a Slab leadership election. Completely at odds with the rest of Slab on Trident and its replacement.
    I believe the same people were swooning over Murdo Fraser during the Salmond enquiry, which tells ypu all you need to know about their judgment.
    I believe it demonstrates that the standard of politics in Scotland is about as high as the standard of Scottish football on the world stage?

    Its hardly as if there's titans on the opposite side to Fraser now, is there?
    You swooned over Johnson then Rishi, so mind how you go in your English greenhouse.
    At least whoever we elect in Scotland doesn't govern you, whereas the rsoles you vote for..
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,377

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed one of Russia's 65 Tu-22M3 long range bomber aircraft with a UAV that hit a Russian airbase in Novgorod. These bombers have been used to fire long-range missiles at Ukraine from as far away as the Caspian Sea.

    There's been a large expansion in Ukraine's home-produced drone capability this year. A capability that isn't subject to the restriction not to hit targets in Russia that applies to weapons supplied by NATO countries.

    Ukraine will come out of this as a major European power in its own right.
    Not if Trump and the GOP have anything to do with it.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,743

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed one of Russia's 65 Tu-22M3 long range bomber aircraft with a UAV that hit a Russian airbase in Novgorod. These bombers have been used to fire long-range missiles at Ukraine from as far away as the Caspian Sea.

    There's been a large expansion in Ukraine's home-produced drone capability this year. A capability that isn't subject to the restriction not to hit targets in Russia that applies to weapons supplied by NATO countries.

    Ukraine will come out of this as a major European power in its own right.
    There’s already talk of a joint defence pact with the neighbouring Eastern European countries. If Ukraine can fight Russia to a stand still, such a grouping - which would have access to all the best NATO toys - would be a regional power indeed.
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    Long season for Everton I fear.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed one of Russia's 65 Tu-22M3 long range bomber aircraft with a UAV that hit a Russian airbase in Novgorod. These bombers have been used to fire long-range missiles at Ukraine from as far away as the Caspian Sea.

    There's been a large expansion in Ukraine's home-produced drone capability this year. A capability that isn't subject to the restriction not to hit targets in Russia that applies to weapons supplied by NATO countries.

    Ukraine will come out of this as a major European power in its own right.
    Yes, nothing like a hot war to stimulate development of new military toys, and the work they’ve been doing on drones is brilliant. If nothing else, using a handful of $2,000 toy drones with a couple of grenades attached, to annoy the enemy to the point they’re firing $250,000 air defence missiles at them, is a great strategy of attrition.

    The longer-range drones are also much smaller and cheaper than we’ve seen before, and the naval drones are annoying the hell out of the Black Sea fleet and the Kerch bridge security team.
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,466

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    MI5 recruits the crème de la crème of Cambridge graduates, like Guy Burgess and Sir Anthony Blunt.
    I would have made a fine spy, I am multilingual, I possess great subtlety required for the role, I can think on my feet under pressure.

    I think the only thing that stopped me being recruited was there's an inevitability of me becoming the victim of numerous honeytraps .
    Who was the politician who asked for a copy of the KGB blackmail movie of him (the politician) with his mistress? So he could publish it himself and become a legend to his people.
    Sukarno.

    I had to stop reading 'The Jakarta Method' too depressing.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    100m semi-finals about to start, ahead of tonight’s final. Zharnel Hughes the British interest, he’s the fastest man in the world this year.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,216

    Long season for Everton I fear.

    I thought they might wish they'd gone down last season. Not a good way to sign-off at Goodison Park.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,067
    Netherlands supplying 42 F-16 jets to Ukraine.

    I wonder if Putin and the Donbass thugs might now regret MH17.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    edited August 2023

    Netherlands supplying 42 F-16 jets to Ukraine.

    I wonder if Putin and the Donbass thugs might now regret MH17.

    There’s probably quite a bit they’re regretting right now. They should have been hoisting Russian flags over Kiev before the end of February last year. How’s that going for them, with 250,000 men and 3,000 tanks gone, their currency collapsing, and hundreds of billions of dollars in sanctions and confiscated international assets?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,492
    Sandpit said:

    100m semi-finals about to start, ahead of tonight’s final. Zharnel Hughes the British interest, he’s the fastest man in the world this year.

    In the final but he is going to have to go faster than that. Very slow out the blocks, strong finish.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    100m semi-finals about to start, ahead of tonight’s final. Zharnel Hughes the British interest, he’s the fastest man in the world this year.

    In the final but he is going to have to go faster than that. Very slow out the blocks, strong finish.
    Defending champion Kerley is out though, so one fewer American to beat in the final.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,067
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yougov has Yes on just 42%, even lower than the 45% they got in 2014 pre Brexit.

    MI5 involvement or not with the SNP also having fallen in the polls and Sturgeon replaced by the hapless Yousaf it does not look good for Scottish Nationalists


    Questions that HYUFD runs away from answering, part of a long series.

    How much lower is No than the 55% they got in 2014?
    Face it, the SNP had maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity to go for Scexit maybe even UDI when Boris was PM and delivered Brexit. Sturgeon failed to do so and has now gone, the SNP poll ratings are collapsing under hapless Yousaf and we are heading for a unionist UK Labour government also making big gains at SNP expense in Scotland in polls.

    We've probably bought ourselves 10 years but Scottish secessionism will likely come back particularly since we only seem interested in the preserving the Union when it is in crisis.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,949
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they are infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    I think @TSE is pointing out that “British Intelligence” lives, rent free, in heads around the world.

    The number of times they get mentioned on the Moscow comedy programs, for example…
    I think the Iranians do so quite a bit too.

    I've always thought its part a hangover from the old Imperial days, and part looking to pin blame on a figurehead of the 'The West' without having to blame the americans all the time, so is also even a bit diplomatically useful.
    Maybe James Bond is seen as a documentary.

    Though anyone British would recognise that his expenses claims would exceed Civil Service allowances by a substantial margin, showing it is a work of fiction.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,183
    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
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    tlg86 said:

    Long season for Everton I fear.

    I thought they might wish they'd gone down last season. Not a good way to sign-off at Goodison Park.
    I do fear for the club if they go down, they'll be the new Sunderland.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,882
    edited August 2023
    Great analysis.
    I would extend the disadvantaged age threshold to under 50.

    Anyone 50 or over reached the age of 30 before 2003 and was therefore able to get on the housing ladder before the great inflation of the 2000s.

    I am 44 and only *just* managed to get on to a property that suited me in 2011. It was already probably 2x more expensive than it had been a decade before. It is now 2x more again.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,882

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Brexit messed with him, like it did so many.
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,542
    I am disappointed to learn that MI5 and the CIA needed the help of the lizard people in this effort. (And, were I a Brit, I would be disappointed that MI5 needed the help of the CIA.)
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,067
    I presume 2/3 of children having a parent born outside the UK is in reference to London. It is 1/3 for the UK as a whole I think.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,492
    On topic, of course not. The period of Nicola's premiership as First Minister will no doubt be looked back upon as more than one lost opportunity for Nationalists but she didn't play dice and was never willing to play odds that didn't seem in her favour. She has run out of time as all politicians eventually do but she was no agent.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,949
    Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed one of Russia's 65 Tu-22M3 long range bomber aircraft with a UAV that hit a Russian airbase in Novgorod. These bombers have been used to fire long-range missiles at Ukraine from as far away as the Caspian Sea.

    There's been a large expansion in Ukraine's home-produced drone capability this year. A capability that isn't subject to the restriction not to hit targets in Russia that applies to weapons supplied by NATO countries.

    Ukraine will come out of this as a major European power in its own right.
    Yes, nothing like a hot war to stimulate development of new military toys, and the work they’ve been doing on drones is brilliant. If nothing else, using a handful of $2,000 toy drones with a couple of grenades attached, to annoy the enemy to the point they’re firing $250,000 air defence missiles at them, is a great strategy of attrition.

    The longer-range drones are also much smaller and cheaper than we’ve seen before, and the naval drones are annoying the hell out of the Black Sea fleet and the Kerch bridge security team.
    The drone war has shifted from the big drones (remember Bayraktar?) to insect like swarms of small drones. Russia claims to shoot down 10 000 Ukranian drones a month.

    The air war is no longer pointy nose jets flown by slavic @Dura_Ace stick jockeys.

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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,377

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Brexit messed with him, like it did so many.
    More that Brexiteers messed with him? They were at their most aggressively triumphant at that point I think.
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    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,542
    edited August 2023
    Off topic: The man in charge of the Luna-25 project should stay away from windows in tall buildings, at least for a while.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,136

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    His partner was dependent on medication from the EU. Meeks was angry about this as he feared supplies would be disrupted by Brexit. Leavers were less than sympathetic, and escalation took place. Alastair left and never looked back. PB is frequently - how can I put this - interesting and it can serve as a useful early warning system for whatever the mad fuck politariat are planning this week, but it is not always necessary, and he worked out he could cope perfectly well without us.

    Some PBers have blogs: Cyclefree has one, Alastair has one, Isam has/had one. Are there any others?
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    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,778
    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they are infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    It's a well-known incontrovertible fact that Smiley's People is a documentary history of MI5, written by an insider, with just a few name changes to throw the stupid Russians off the scent. They may not be the best in the world but they are far and away the most entertaining.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,492

    I presume 2/3 of children having a parent born outside the UK is in reference to London. It is 1/3 for the UK as a whole I think.
    My daughter had a brilliant definition of middle class. Middle class people were those that could keep the same alcohol in the house for more than a week. It really works and differentiates between those who genuinely live hand to mouth and those who just have that little band of comfort, even if it is psychological.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,771

    Off topic: The man in charge of the Luna-25 project should stay away from windows in tall buildings, at least for a while.

    This is one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind...
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,771
    viewcode said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    His partner was dependent on medication from the EU. Meeks was angry about this as he feared supplies would be disrupted by Brexit. Leavers were less than sympathetic, and escalation took place. Alastair left and never looked back. PB is frequently - how can I put this - interesting and it can serve as a useful early warning system for whatever the mad fuck politariat are planning this week, but it is not always necessary, and he worked out he could cope perfectly well without us.

    Some PBers have blogs: Cyclefree has one, Alastair has one, Isam has/had one. Are there any others?
    Some PBers also post their shit on Rail Forums.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,377

    viewcode said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    His partner was dependent on medication from the EU. Meeks was angry about this as he feared supplies would be disrupted by Brexit. Leavers were less than sympathetic, and escalation took place. Alastair left and never looked back. PB is frequently - how can I put this - interesting and it can serve as a useful early warning system for whatever the mad fuck politariat are planning this week, but it is not always necessary, and he worked out he could cope perfectly well without us.

    Some PBers have blogs: Cyclefree has one, Alastair has one, Isam has/had one. Are there any others?
    Some PBers also post their shit on Rail Forums.
    And lose it I bet.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,569
    edited August 2023
    Meanwhile, we can at least celebrate the ladies getting what it means to be the English national football team, down to a tee. They have done us proud.

    Disappointment to us Brits is surely worth more than actually winning.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,041
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Ukrainians are claiming to have destroyed one of Russia's 65 Tu-22M3 long range bomber aircraft with a UAV that hit a Russian airbase in Novgorod. These bombers have been used to fire long-range missiles at Ukraine from as far away as the Caspian Sea.

    There's been a large expansion in Ukraine's home-produced drone capability this year. A capability that isn't subject to the restriction not to hit targets in Russia that applies to weapons supplied by NATO countries.

    Ukraine will come out of this as a major European power in its own right.
    Yes, nothing like a hot war to stimulate development of new military toys, and the work they’ve been doing on drones is brilliant. If nothing else, using a handful of $2,000 toy drones with a couple of grenades attached, to annoy the enemy to the point they’re firing $250,000 air defence missiles at them, is a great strategy of attrition.

    The longer-range drones are also much smaller and cheaper than we’ve seen before, and the naval drones are annoying the hell out of the Black Sea fleet and the Kerch bridge security team.
    The drone war has shifted from the big drones (remember Bayraktar?) to insect like swarms of small drones. Russia claims to shoot down 10 000 Ukranian drones a month.

    The air war is no longer pointy nose jets flown by slavic @Dura_Ace stick jockeys.

    They're all sizes.
    You need bigger drones for range and endurance - or to take out the odd Tu22M (cost c.$40m) on a Russian airfield.
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,203

    Great analysis.
    I would extend the disadvantaged age threshold to under 50.

    Anyone 50 or over reached the age of 30 before 2003 and was therefore able to get on the housing ladder before the great inflation of the 2000s.

    I am 44 and only *just* managed to get on to a property that suited me in 2011. It was already probably 2x more expensive than it had been a decade before. It is now 2x more again.
    I'm 47 but probably one of the lucky ones, we bought our first flat in 2002 when we got married, aged 26/27. No bank of mum and dad, just some savings that came out of having a decent paid job and thrifty spending habits, plus the benefit of two incomes. When we sold it about ten years later to buy our current house it had only gone up by £65k so we've not been massive beneficiaries of the great housing inflation - prices went up a lot then came down a bit after the GFC. People in my age group, mid to late 40s, are kind of non combatants in the great generational property war, neither big Winners nor utterly screwed like anyone under 40.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187
    Carnyx said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    Any newspaper or commentator or PBer who invokes Jim Sillars as a primary source or opinion former is really asking not to be taken seriously.
    Asking to be taken away by men in white coats
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,466

    Great analysis.
    I would extend the disadvantaged age threshold to under 50.

    Anyone 50 or over reached the age of 30 before 2003 and was therefore able to get on the housing ladder before the great inflation of the 2000s.

    I am 44 and only *just* managed to get on to a property that suited me in 2011. It was already probably 2x more expensive than it had been a decade before. It is now 2x more again.
    For me its the defined benefit/defined contribution pension gap. Seems to map quite cleanly between those who benefited from high stability (un-globalised) jobs and the generation after.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187
    DavidL said:

    I presume 2/3 of children having a parent born outside the UK is in reference to London. It is 1/3 for the UK as a whole I think.
    My daughter had a brilliant definition of middle class. Middle class people were those that could keep the same alcohol in the house for more than a week. It really works and differentiates between those who genuinely live hand to mouth and those who just have that little band of comfort, even if it is psychological.
    Rules me out of middle class for sure then.
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,262

    Great analysis.
    I would extend the disadvantaged age threshold to under 50.

    Anyone 50 or over reached the age of 30 before 2003 and was therefore able to get on the housing ladder before the great inflation of the 2000s.

    I am 44 and only *just* managed to get on to a property that suited me in 2011. It was already probably 2x more expensive than it had been a decade before. It is now 2x more again.
    I'm 47 but probably one of the lucky ones, we bought our first flat in 2002 when we got married, aged 26/27. No bank of mum and dad, just some savings that came out of having a decent paid job and thrifty spending habits, plus the benefit of two incomes. When we sold it about ten years later to buy our current house it had only gone up by £65k so we've not been massive beneficiaries of the great housing inflation - prices went up a lot then came down a bit after the GFC. People in my age group, mid to late 40s, are kind of non combatants in the great generational property war, neither big Winners nor utterly screwed like anyone under 40.
    You will be if you have children and later downsize, though.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,136
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    I’ve been here a couple of years and Leon has left a few times. A cheap dig at @BartholomewRoberts doesnt mean he’s the one who drove them off the site. Whereas we know some posters have actually driven members off the site. Like Charles.
    Although I do get your point, Charles's complaint was that somebody mentioned a family member, despite the fact that it was Charles who had named them in the first place. I am happy to keep the privacy of commentators, as witnessed by my treatment of @Miklosvar, but others may not be so ethical.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187

    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Alex Neil, Jim Sillars and Campbell who, the throbbing (throbber?) heart of the Indy movement.

    Since Sillars backed Jackie Baillie at the last Holyrood election, we must assume he is a now a neo Unionist and therefore an unimpeachable source.

    I'm glad you mentioned the last part about neo-unionism, since would anyone outside Scotland know who Jackie Baillie was without googling?

    I prefer my SNP news from WingsOverScotland, now there's a source with no axe to grind, nossir.
    I'm actually surprised you've never heard of her. Much touted on PB as the latest hammer of the Nationalists, etc. etc. every time there is a Slab leadership election. Completely at odds with the rest of Slab on Trident and its replacement.
    I believe the same people were swooning over Murdo Fraser during the Salmond enquiry, which tells ypu all you need to know about their judgment.
    I believe it demonstrates that the standard of politics in Scotland is about as high as the standard of Scottish football on the world stage?

    Its hardly as if there's titans on the opposite side to Fraser now, is there?
    You thick bumpkin , do you not read the news or see the clowns, crooks and comic singers in Westminster. You are a really nasty thick piece of work. You and HYFUD are two cheeks of the same Little Englander ARSE.
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    @viewcode

    Have just sent you a private message.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,569
    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    Sadly Leon, as the site’s official designated principal twat, always returns, one way or another…
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,187
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    Sadly Leon, as the site’s official designated principal twat, always returns, one way or another…
    Hopefully he does
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,262
    edited August 2023
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    Sadly Leon, as the site’s official designated principal twat, always returns, one way or another…
    Perhaps, like a principal violinist, he tunes the orchestra - for good or for ill.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,330
    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    I sensed that Leon was becoming increasingly frustrated at the lack of deference he was receiving for the spine-tingling accuracy of some of his prophecies: AI and Lab Leak in particular.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,015
    Just the 800m to go in the Heptathlon, and Katarina Johnson-Thompson is in the lead for Team GB. Very close between the top three though, the medals could go any way.
    https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/athletics/65740170
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,386
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    Sadly Leon, as the site’s official designated principal twat, always returns, one way or another…
    He’s not the only one 😂
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,433
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    I’ve been here a couple of years and Leon has left a few times. A cheap dig at @BartholomewRoberts doesnt mean he’s the one who drove them off the site. Whereas we know some posters have actually driven members off the site. Like Charles.
    Charles posts under a new name, I think.
    (it wasn't a cheap dig btw, just a light josh)
    As for why people leave, only they know for sure and it'll rarely be just one thing.
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    kle4 said:

    I am amused by TSE's patriotism that MI5 are the best intelligence agency in the world. I don't really know how we could judge that, they cannot eat out on infiltrating the IRA forever, but if they are the best I'd love to know how they've avoided the institutional malaise every other part of the state seems to have suffered.

    As it notes in conclusion though No still leads in some polls, so if they are infiltrating could they get around to a coup de grace already.

    It's a well-known incontrovertible fact that Smiley's People is a documentary history of MI5, written by an insider, with just a few name changes to throw the stupid Russians off the scent. They may not be the best in the world but they are far and away the most entertaining.
    That's MI6, Alph, which deals with international security. MI5 is the domestic branch.

    We can be pretty sure from the works of LeCarre, Ben MacIntyre, and the renegade Peter Wright that MI6 was generally next door to useless and may even have been a negative factor in respect of the security of this country.

    MI5 is the domestic version and may possibly have been a bit better but that isn't saying much. The above three writers do touch on it from time to time and again the picture is not wholly flattering.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,386

    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    I sensed that Leon was becoming increasingly frustrated at the lack of deference he was receiving for the spine-tingling accuracy of some of his prophecies: AI and Lab Leak in particular.
    I think he saw the woke thing as being malign and a big issue, when most of us were, and are, concerned about cost of,living.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,418
    ...

    Long season for Everton I fear.

    Being spanked 4 nil by one of the big four or five is one thing, by Villa is utter humiliation.
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    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    Sadly Leon, as the site’s official designated principal twat, always returns, one way or another…
    I think it's a lesser site without Leon and hope he comes back (under whatever name he likes).
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    kinabalu said:

    Agreed. Anyone know why he left? He was prolific, then seemingly disappeared overnight.
    Yes I remember it well. Seems for each poster who leaves there's a very different reason, no theme. Eg Leon, just the other day, it was triggered by a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Bartholomew Roberts. Whereas with Mr Meeks it was after a prolonged and harrowing exchange with Philip Thompson.
    I sensed that Leon was becoming increasingly frustrated at the lack of deference he was receiving for the spine-tingling accuracy of some of his prophecies: AI and Lab Leak in particular.
    Nah, I think he just got a bit bored. Politics is a bit boring at the moment and probably will continue that way for a while, I think.

    He'll be back, but the Site will survive if he isn't.
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,883

    Great analysis.
    I would extend the disadvantaged age threshold to under 50.

    Anyone 50 or over reached the age of 30 before 2003 and was therefore able to get on the housing ladder before the great inflation of the 2000s.

    I am 44 and only *just* managed to get on to a property that suited me in 2011. It was already probably 2x more expensive than it had been a decade before. It is now 2x more again.
    For me its the defined benefit/defined contribution pension gap. Seems to map quite cleanly between those who benefited from high stability (un-globalised) jobs and the generation after.
    There will be a growing divide because of this between private and public sector workers. Personally getting fed up with friends that work public sector telling me that their pensions aren't gold plated as they will give them only 10k to 15k a year. I have contributed more than them and my dc pension will pay me the square root of fuck all due to 20 years of low interest rates....so much for the miracle of cumulative interest
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