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Most GOP voters think there was a lot of voters fraud at WH2020 – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    edited August 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone mentioned that Christie is now polling second to Trump in New Hampshire?

    Yep: DeSantis has managed to drop out of the top two.

    Christie is definitely setting himself up as the old Republican candidate.

    The total implosion of the RDS campaign, is very wierd. I spent months wondering if he’d stand, but then he did and he might as well not bothered. His team have been worse then useless, spending their days online sh!tposting and trashing moderates.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Yes its that time of year again: where a list of 10 unspectacularly "funny" jokes makes you wonder what the rest of the material is like: https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/aug/14/need-a-good-laugh-the-10-best-jokes-from-the-edinburgh-festival-2023

    In fairness, the one about the cat isn't bad.

    The one about inflation has merit, but if it was a top ten it can't have been a field of intense competition.

    Some of the others are literally embarrassing.
    A pal of mine at work today had a better one after we had been listening through the open windows to the racket all day. He said it was really weird how, at certain times of the year, what was a straightforward breach of the peace somehow became a cultural event.
    Quite. Edinburgh's unbearable in August. What really gets me is the way the pubs and cafes sometimes up the prices and reduce the choice on the menu.
    It's where they make the money that subsidises our lunches the rest of the year, I suppose.
    One of my nieces lives in Edinburgh and is in the process of buying a flat. She has worked out that if she takes off in her camper van (solar panels, wifi-enabled, suitable for wfh) during the Festival, renting out her flat will cover two thirds of her yearly mortgage payments.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,365
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,963
    edited August 2023
    Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    .

    Miklosvar said:

    Eabhal said:

    Of the 490 pedestrians injured in collisions on Edinburgh's pavements over the last 20 years, only 9 were hit by a cyclist.

    The 8 that were killed were all hit by drivers, including two children under the age of 5.

    With that, I bid you all good evening.

    Hard to compare like for like figures, but nationwide 1% of transportation mileage is via cycling.

    You are saying 2% of injuries are via cycling.

    Seems that bikes are as likely to result in injury per mile than cars then? 🤔

    I do not propose banning cycles, or restricting them, despite the fact they come with risk. Life has risk.
    Not clever or funny, Bart. 100% of DEATHS caused by motor vehicles.
    So what?

    Life is not without risk.
    You're a hard man, Bart. Those children under the age of 5 definitely knew what they were getting in to when they bought their tickets.
    Shit happens.

    Sometimes kids get leukemia.

    Sometimes kids get in accidents.

    It's a tragedy. Try to lower risks, supervise your kids, teach them road safety etc. It's not a reason to stop living.

    You sound like a zero COVID zealot.
    You sound like a jerk, frankly.

    Not that I don't sympathise, I had an Alfasud and a couple of Golf GTIs in the days before speed cameras were invented. I can't see what fun you are getting crawling round Warrington in the Skoda, but it's all you have ever known. I am not an anti-car militant, I am just pointing out that they are on their way out.
    Not a jerk for knowing life has risk. I sympathise with anyone who has experienced a tragedy, it sucks for them.

    But life having risk is not a reason not to live life.

    I've done a skydive, which has considerably higher risk than driving. Should the risk of that be a reason not to do it too?

    Leaving your home carries risk. Not leaving the home carries risk too. Life is full of risk, you need to be balanced in approaching it.
    You did a tandem skydive, Bart, where the fatality rate is about 1 in 1 million

    https://britishskydiving.org/how-safe/

    and you continue to sound a prat by eliding your devil-may-care shit, with the deaths of very small children.
    1 in a million is still much riskier than driving, or walking.

    I'm not saying devil-may-care, I said its a tragedy and they have my sympathy, not devil-may-care. Your illiteracy does you no favours.

    Life has risk, when that risk happens its a tragedy. But the fact that tragedies happen, is not a reason to shut down life. Its a reason to appreciate life, and live it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    edited August 2023
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

  • Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone mentioned that Christie is now polling second to Trump in New Hampshire?

    Yep: DeSantis has managed to drop out of the top two.

    Christie is definitely setting himself up as the old Republican candidate.

    The total implosion of the RDS campaign, is very wierd. I spend months wondering if he’d stand, but then he did and he might as well not bothered. His team have been worse then useless, spending their days online sh!tposting and trashing moderates.
    The problem is he's trying to out-Trump Trump.

    Sh!tposting and trashing others is what Trump does. He's tried to double down on it by making stupid videos about how Trump is a moderate, something nobody takes credibly.

    It comes across as stupid and fake.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining. The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers.

    The boulangerie type places in Hamburg are excellent.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    The fast mailing trains in France and Germany are generally good. Once you start going on the lesser lines....

    The French, in particular, have some rolling stock that takes me back to my childhood.
    Stop it. You'll be getting Sunil excited.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,635
    edited August 2023
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    They do have a whale of a time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    That’s properly embarrassing.

    It was a genius call, whoever made the decision to use one of the RAF tanker refuellers as a VIP aircraft.

    It leads to videos like this, which is a massive advert for the RAF.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XBAjbzx92wQ
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,569

    Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    .

    Miklosvar said:

    Eabhal said:

    Of the 490 pedestrians injured in collisions on Edinburgh's pavements over the last 20 years, only 9 were hit by a cyclist.

    The 8 that were killed were all hit by drivers, including two children under the age of 5.

    With that, I bid you all good evening.

    Hard to compare like for like figures, but nationwide 1% of transportation mileage is via cycling.

    You are saying 2% of injuries are via cycling.

    Seems that bikes are as likely to result in injury per mile than cars then? 🤔

    I do not propose banning cycles, or restricting them, despite the fact they come with risk. Life has risk.
    Not clever or funny, Bart. 100% of DEATHS caused by motor vehicles.
    So what?

    Life is not without risk.
    You're a hard man, Bart. Those children under the age of 5 definitely knew what they were getting in to when they bought their tickets.
    Shit happens.

    Sometimes kids get leukemia.

    Sometimes kids get in accidents.

    It's a tragedy. Try to lower risks, supervise your kids, teach them road safety etc. It's not a reason to stop living.

    You sound like a zero COVID zealot.
    You sound like a jerk, frankly.

    Not that I don't sympathise, I had an Alfasud and a couple of Golf GTIs in the days before speed cameras were invented. I can't see what fun you are getting crawling round Warrington in the Skoda, but it's all you have ever known. I am not an anti-car militant, I am just pointing out that they are on their way out.
    Not a jerk for knowing life has risk. I sympathise with anyone who has experienced a tragedy, it sucks for them.

    But life having risk is not a reason not to live life.

    I've done a skydive, which has considerably higher risk than driving. Should the risk of that be a reason not to do it too?

    Leaving your home carries risk. Not leaving the home carries risk too. Life is full of risk, you need to be balanced in approaching it.
    You did a tandem skydive, Bart, where the fatality rate is about 1 in 1 million

    https://britishskydiving.org/how-safe/

    and you continue to sound a prat by eliding your devil-may-care shit, with the deaths of very small children.
    1 in a million is still much riskier than driving, or walking.

    I'm not saying devil-may-care, I said its a tragedy and they have my sympathy, not devil-may-care. Your illiteracy does you no favours.

    Life has risk, when that risk happens its a tragedy. But the fact that tragedies happen, is not a reason to shut down life. Its a reason to appreciate life, and live it.
    This is just deaths and injuries on pavements btw.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Christie 2nd amongst republicans in NH. Just taken the remaining £14 at 90 on betfair

    Well, at least he's offering them an alternative option, unlike most of the others. Ok that doesn't get him all that many, but it's more coherent at least.
    He's clearly partly got an eye on the history books. When future generations ask who did anything to try to stop Trump's second term.
    He says a lot of good, punchy stuff, like how even putting aside the potential criminality its just awful conduct.

    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1691502764868669440?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

    He seems furious about it all, possibly since he ignored it all up to that moment! Found his line a bit ealier than some, but still way too late.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Way offtopic, and very funny.

    If you’re in Ukraine, and have the local alert application in English, it says “The alert is over, may the force be with you”.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-star-wars-mark-hamill-1.6793154
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    Thank goodness we got out of the EU when we did.

    Sclerotic Europe has been sinking as a share of the world economy for decades, only Germany has remained strong. With us and Germany shouldering most of the bills for the EU.

    Now Germany is struggling, which might last years, its lucky for us we are out of the building.
  • ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Yes its that time of year again: where a list of 10 unspectacularly "funny" jokes makes you wonder what the rest of the material is like: https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2023/aug/14/need-a-good-laugh-the-10-best-jokes-from-the-edinburgh-festival-2023

    In fairness, the one about the cat isn't bad.

    The one about inflation has merit, but if it was a top ten it can't have been a field of intense competition.

    Some of the others are literally embarrassing.
    It is a woke top ten. I hate to channel my inner Leon but the Guardian has carefully balanced gender, ethnicity and sexuality of its ten comics. I dare say half the jokes were written by AI. But it's a show, or rather ten shows, and live comedy is always good.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,934
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I get the impression PBers travel rather a lot. Not as much as you, because it’s not their job, but way more than the average and to more exotic locations than the average. In fact I think you commented to that effect a few months ago.

    We do tend to look at foreign places through rose tinted spectacles though. Mostly people are on holiday in which case their schedule is relaxed and fairly forgiving, or they’re on expenses so they experience the slicker side of a place.

    The most common time things go 180 degrees in the other direction and people long to be home is where something goes wrong and they come face to face with the local bureaucracy. Then their lack of familiarity with the system makes it feel worse and more impenetrable than Britain even when it isn’t (and it often is).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,007
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    That’s properly embarrassing.

    It was a genius call, whoever made the decision to use one of the RAF tanker refuellers as a VIP aircraft.

    It leads to videos like this, which is a massive advert for the RAF.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XBAjbzx92wQ
    The phrase "United Kingdom" should be in the same font&color as, and line up with the top of, the ZZ336 registration number at the rear. When I am Supreme Commander I shall decree this. Scruffy buggers. :)
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 790
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone mentioned that Christie is now polling second to Trump in New Hampshire?

    Yep: DeSantis has managed to drop out of the top two.

    Christie is definitely setting himself up as the old Republican candidate.

    The total implosion of the RDS campaign, is very wierd. I spent months wondering if he’d stand, but then he did and he might as well not bothered. His team have been worse then useless, spending their days online sh!tposting and trashing moderates.
    De Santis must be absolutely dying inside - the embarrassment of his failure is total.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    edited August 2023
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"






  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,365
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    They do have a whale of a time.
    Yes, they eat everything that flies, walks or swims. Whale is now banned for women of childbearing age because of Mercury toxicity, but still a part of the strong local culture.

    I did have some of the air dried fermented lamb, and rather liked it. There is only a slight whiff of ammonia, but otherwise a bit like serrano ham.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,491
    edited August 2023
    edit
  • Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    .

    Miklosvar said:

    Eabhal said:

    Of the 490 pedestrians injured in collisions on Edinburgh's pavements over the last 20 years, only 9 were hit by a cyclist.

    The 8 that were killed were all hit by drivers, including two children under the age of 5.

    With that, I bid you all good evening.

    Hard to compare like for like figures, but nationwide 1% of transportation mileage is via cycling.

    You are saying 2% of injuries are via cycling.

    Seems that bikes are as likely to result in injury per mile than cars then? 🤔

    I do not propose banning cycles, or restricting them, despite the fact they come with risk. Life has risk.
    Not clever or funny, Bart. 100% of DEATHS caused by motor vehicles.
    So what?

    Life is not without risk.
    You're a hard man, Bart. Those children under the age of 5 definitely knew what they were getting in to when they bought their tickets.
    Shit happens.

    Sometimes kids get leukemia.

    Sometimes kids get in accidents.

    It's a tragedy. Try to lower risks, supervise your kids, teach them road safety etc. It's not a reason to stop living.

    You sound like a zero COVID zealot.
    You sound like a jerk, frankly.

    Not that I don't sympathise, I had an Alfasud and a couple of Golf GTIs in the days before speed cameras were invented. I can't see what fun you are getting crawling round Warrington in the Skoda, but it's all you have ever known. I am not an anti-car militant, I am just pointing out that they are on their way out.
    Not a jerk for knowing life has risk. I sympathise with anyone who has experienced a tragedy, it sucks for them.

    But life having risk is not a reason not to live life.

    I've done a skydive, which has considerably higher risk than driving. Should the risk of that be a reason not to do it too?

    Leaving your home carries risk. Not leaving the home carries risk too. Life is full of risk, you need to be balanced in approaching it.
    Idiot drivers need to be properly punished

    About a third of the cars that drive past my window, in a 20, are going over 35

    I have to cross this road at least ten times a day on average (I deliver mail to it at least three times a week)

    How do we stop these dickheads exercising their freedom in such idiotically dangerous ways?

    I sometimes stop in the middle of the road to gesticulate and mouth obscenities that would occasionally get me banned from PB at the arseholes

    It normally works at slowing them down, but I don't think it's an effective national strategy. Sometimes they sound the horn and accelerate

    I love playing chicken
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Sam Curran 35 off 17. He absolutely has to be in England’s white ball team.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"
    Yes, I prefer surface travel, and so hard to get too far, but both were delightful places to visit.

    Germany will be fine. The Faeroes too, though half the Faeroese live in Denmark now.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,934
    Germany’s biggest challenge in the last 24 months has been energy costs, more than market challenges. 24 months ago is roughly when Gazprom started turning off the taps ahead of the invasion.

    A very significant amount of production has shifted from Germany to France during this time. France is benefitting from its nuclear power base in the same way the US benefited in the last decade from fracked gas. Whoever first finds themselves with a surplus of cheap renewable energy will get a similar industrial boost.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone mentioned that Christie is now polling second to Trump in New Hampshire?

    Yep: DeSantis has managed to drop out of the top two.

    Christie is definitely setting himself up as the old Republican candidate.

    The total implosion of the RDS campaign, is very wierd. I spent months wondering if he’d stand, but then he did and he might as well not bothered. His team have been worse then useless, spending their days online sh!tposting and trashing moderates.
    De Santis must be absolutely dying inside - the embarrassment of his failure is total.
    It makes no sense to me as an outsider. He’s one of the most popular politicians in the country, who gained a massive majority last time out against the national swing.

    But everyone who works for him is a total moron, massively-online and way more interested in sh!tting on Republican opponents than the President.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
  • TimS said:

    Germany’s biggest challenge in the last 24 months has been energy costs, more than market challenges. 24 months ago is roughly when Gazprom started turning off the taps ahead of the invasion.

    A very significant amount of production has shifted from Germany to France during this time. France is benefitting from its nuclear power base in the same way the US benefited in the last decade from fracked gas. Whoever first finds themselves with a surplus of cheap renewable energy will get a similar industrial boost.

    Totally agreed.

    Its why we should continue going hell for leather for wind turbines. Both onshore and offshore.

    Cheap, plentiful, zero-input energy is fantastic and will be great for the economy.

    And electric vehicles and batteries will help resolve the fact that they're intermittent.
  • Entirely off-topic, some words of praise for my new Apple overlords. This MacBook Pro 14 is the most solidly built laptop I have ever owned, with
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    Using trains in this country is a bit like sex with an ex.

    You thought it was a good idea but after the first ten minutes you've filled with immense feelings of regret.
    I travel a three-figure distance each week by train. Hence my air of seething seethiness. Horrible, horrible, horrible.
    Tomorrow I have a nice little excursion planned. Need to be in Coventry for a meeting at 11, but needed to do a there and back due to other diary commitments.

    Loganair wanted £insane for Aberdeen to Birmingham direct flights. So after assessing all of the options and looking for best value I booked easyJet to and from Gatwick.

    Yes that means train to London then out from Euston and reverse. But on paper I can get work done in that time. And even with the additional rail ticket its a whopping £150 cheaper and doesn't involve a longer day...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    That’s properly embarrassing.

    It was a genius call, whoever made the decision to use one of the RAF tanker refuellers as a VIP aircraft.

    It leads to videos like this, which is a massive advert for the RAF.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=XBAjbzx92wQ
    The whining from the journalists when they discovered that they would be travelling in fairly ordinary seats was wonderful. Especially when they'd been attacking the government for creating an "Airforce One" luxury jet.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone mentioned that Christie is now polling second to Trump in New Hampshire?

    Yep: DeSantis has managed to drop out of the top two.

    Christie is definitely setting himself up as the old Republican candidate.

    The total implosion of the RDS campaign, is very wierd. I spent months wondering if he’d stand, but then he did and he might as well not bothered. His team have been worse then useless, spending their days online sh!tposting and trashing moderates.
    De Santis must be absolutely dying inside - the embarrassment of his failure is total.
    It makes no sense to me as an outsider. He’s one of the most popular politicians in the country, who gained a massive majority last time out against the national swing.

    But everyone who works for him is a total moron, massively-online and way more interested in sh!tting on Republican opponents than the President.
    They've looked at Trump and are trying to be Trump^2.

    It isn't working.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644
    Not sure if this has been discussed already, but what exactly is Trump going to produce on Monday? A file of garbage, no doubt but why does he bother? How is it going to help?

    image
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    TimS said:

    Germany’s biggest challenge in the last 24 months has been energy costs, more than market challenges. 24 months ago is roughly when Gazprom started turning off the taps ahead of the invasion.

    A very significant amount of production has shifted from Germany to France during this time. France is benefitting from its nuclear power base in the same way the US benefited in the last decade from fracked gas. Whoever first finds themselves with a surplus of cheap renewable energy will get a similar industrial boost.

    It’s horrible to say it, but France was right on nuclear power.

    I’m not in favour of governments picking winners, but putting in an order for the first half dozen RR SMRs wouldn’t go amiss right now, before the Americans get a monopoly on them.
  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    Sure but by the same token wise heads would say not to bet against rome in ad 450 as they had always muddled through before.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    The key point, that @Leon makes, is that demand from China is falling off a cliff at the moment. Very bad news for Germany. Not great for the whole world economy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"
    Yes, I prefer surface travel, and so hard to get too far, but both were delightful places to visit.

    Germany will be fine. The Faeroes too, though half the Faeroese live in Denmark now.

    I'm not criticising you, I'm just noting that you kinda proved my point. You went to two nice, really rich places and you noticed that they are nicer and richer than the poorer bits of Britain. It is not an insight for the ages

    I do envy your trip to the Faroes. It is on my bucket list. I want to see the cliffs and the tunnels!

    I'm curious, do you not fly any more? Is this an aversion or just a preference?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    The key point, that @Leon makes, is that demand from China is falling off a cliff at the moment. Very bad news for Germany. Not great for the whole world economy.
    Yes, German sales of capital equipment - factory robots - to China have been seriously impressive in recent years. They’re now getting screwed, both by the Chinese copying their designs, and a general slowdown in that economy.
  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    I think where Britain falls behind is significantly down to education and aspiration. Immigrant groups are pro-education and very ambitious for their children.

    Britain seems run by old people who want to squeeze young people till the pips squeak, unless related to them.
    Yes the old problem of the gerontocracy. The UK is a health service with a small country attached.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,569
    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,644
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"
    Any recommendations for Hamburg? I'm likely to be there for a day in October - not somewhere I'd ordinarily opt to visit, I assumed it would be as 'interesting' as, say, Southampton - sounds like I'm wrong.
  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21
    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    Apparently Yorkshire is now on a oar with bucharest in Romania. Not good.
  • Where are we going to get all the copper from to go fully electric?

    Chile and Peru (I think..) are going to have to be raped and pillaged ecologically for us to get halfway there globally

    Do we still have any significant copper ore deposits at places like Coniston that we could exploit?

    If we're going to go "green", we're going to need to do an awful lot of mining and loads of dirty chemical processes that extract metals from ores

    Most Greens I've met aren't ready for this
  • HYUFD said:

    What an utter tool Sunak is.

    Last week was 'small boats week', and perhaps as a result immigration is now the top issue Tory voters see facing the UK:

    Immigration: 67% (+6 from 5-7 Aug)
    Economy: 61% (-8)
    Health: 48% (+8)

    Unfortunately for the govt, 85% of Tory voters say they are handling immigration badly


    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1691489711506829324

    59% of UK voters think offshore barges are an acceptable form of accomodation for asylum seekers though as per government policy, as do 82% of Conservative voters and 80% of Leave voters.

    Labour voters are opposed to using barges to house asylum seekers though 49% to 37% as are Remainers 46% to 44%
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/08/08/45727/1
    There is a problem with the "put them in barges" plan. A shortage of barges. A shortage of places to moor the barges. Apart from that its a top idea.

    What Labour need to be doing is pointing out how badly drawn in crayon these Tory policy initiatives are. No need to oppose barges which do not exist.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Eastside said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    I think where Britain falls behind is significantly down to education and aspiration. Immigrant groups are pro-education and very ambitious for their children.

    Britain seems run by old people who want to squeeze young people till the pips squeak, unless related to them.
    Yes the old problem of the gerontocracy. The UK is a health service with a small country attached.
    That specific sentence is rather familiar, even for those of us who agree with the sentiment.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    But it really DOESN'T

    The graph is nonsensical

    Life expectancy UK: 81.5 years

    Life expectancy Mississippi: 71.9 years (ie lower than Cuba, Peru and - no joke - Syria)

    America's economic stats are way out of whack with the actual quality of life, the lived experience, of tens of millions of Americans
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Eastside said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    Apparently Yorkshire is now on a oar with bucharest in Romania. Not good.
    As opposed to, what, bucharest in Hampshire?

    But anyway, you are right. Yorkshire should paddle its own canoe.
  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Lol a ludicrous property bubble and a failing health service and you call it well run.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,498
    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    The same visualisation shows most of Europe worse off.

    image
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    Germany’s biggest challenge in the last 24 months has been energy costs, more than market challenges. 24 months ago is roughly when Gazprom started turning off the taps ahead of the invasion.

    A very significant amount of production has shifted from Germany to France during this time. France is benefitting from its nuclear power base in the same way the US benefited in the last decade from fracked gas. Whoever first finds themselves with a surplus of cheap renewable energy will get a similar industrial boost.

    It’s horrible to say it, but France was right on nuclear power.

    I’m not in favour of governments picking winners, but putting in an order for the first half dozen RR SMRs wouldn’t go amiss right now, before the Americans get a monopoly on them.
    The RR SMRs are almost certainly related to the AW4 and A1B - the reactors used by American aircraft carriers.

    I think this, because the SMRs are fundamentally a "stretch" of submarine reactor designs - the American reactors for the aircraft carriers were similarly a "stretch" design, when it became clear that the original Enterprise configuration of 8 reactors was way over the top.

    Given the heavy sharing of nuclear technology, it is highly probable that there are serious similarities. You might think that there would be clauses about not using such information in commercial products - but until very, very recently, a commercial use for a submarine type reactor was non-existent.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"
    Any recommendations for Hamburg? I'm likely to be there for a day in October - not somewhere I'd ordinarily opt to visit, I assumed it would be as 'interesting' as, say, Southampton - sounds like I'm wrong.
    Haven't been there in ages, so I'd ask Foxy

    All I recall from 20 years ago is a notably affluent, agreeably organised city, with an attractive waterfront and nice looking blonde girls on bikes, like a Teutonic Amsterdam minus the Prinsengracht, etc

    It is definitely way more compelling than Southampton, tho the food back then was probably as bad as Southampton (it might have improved)



  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    edited August 2023
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"
    Yes, I prefer surface travel, and so hard to get too far, but both were delightful places to visit.

    Germany will be fine. The Faeroes too, though half the Faeroese live in Denmark now.

    I'm not criticising you, I'm just noting that you kinda proved my point. You went to two nice, really rich places and you noticed that they are nicer and richer than the poorer bits of Britain. It is not an insight for the ages

    I do envy your trip to the Faroes. It is on my bucket list. I want to see the cliffs and the tunnels!

    I'm curious, do you not fly any more? Is this an aversion or just a preference?
    I do limit flying, in part because of Co2, but largely because I like surface travel. I took the train to Scotland, then the boat from there. Seeing England change into Scotland, then the Granite of Aberdeen, then into the Norwegian Sea was part of the enjoyment. I don't get seasick.

    Faeroes certainly are expensive, but so much coast and marine life that it is best seen by boat.

    Leicester to Europe by train is easy as the Eurostar goes from St Pancras, so just walk downstairs from Midland Mainline.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,569

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    The same visualisation shows most of Europe worse off.

    image
    Fair. Italy is quite something.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"
    Any recommendations for Hamburg? I'm likely to be there for a day in October - not somewhere I'd ordinarily opt to visit, I assumed it would be as 'interesting' as, say, Southampton - sounds like I'm wrong.
    Haven't been there in ages, so I'd ask Foxy

    All I recall from 20 years ago is a notably affluent, agreeably organised city, with an attractive waterfront and nice looking blonde girls on bikes, like a Teutonic Amsterdam minus the Prinsengracht, etc

    It is definitely way more compelling than Southampton, tho the food back then was probably as bad as Southampton (it might have improved)

    There are some decent hotel restaurants in Southampton now, too
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Eastside said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Lol a ludicrous property bubble and a failing health service and you call it well run.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/the-horror-of-russian-healthcare-a7443121.html

    I am not sure why, when I saw your post, Russia seemed the most obvious comparison

    "Rún was placed in a hospital ward with moldy walls, filthy sheets and screaming nurses who crudely administered an intravenous drip. In the hospital’s corridors, patients sat or lay on grimy floors. But it was the hospital’s restrooms that shocked her most.

    “The floor was soaking wet and muddy, and the toilet was jammed full of urine and faeces,” she wrote in a blog post, since deleted, about what she called her “nightmare” in Penza. Holding her sweater over her nose to keep out the stench, Rún tried not to touch anything in the restroom: “The sink was full of blood,” she wrote. After doctors suggested carrying out an operation to “make sure” her internal organs were “working properly,” Rún decided to leave. It later turned out she had been suffering from heartburn."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"
    Any recommendations for Hamburg? I'm likely to be there for a day in October - not somewhere I'd ordinarily opt to visit, I assumed it would be as 'interesting' as, say, Southampton - sounds like I'm wrong.
    I was there for work, but thought the St Nickolai Church museum worth a look. The botanical gardens were full of red squirrels. There is a pleasant ambience to the city, nicely built around the water. I didn't go to St Pauli, not my scene.
  • Where are we going to get all the copper from to go fully electric?

    Chile and Peru (I think..) are going to have to be raped and pillaged ecologically for us to get halfway there globally

    Do we still have any significant copper ore deposits at places like Coniston that we could exploit?

    If we're going to go "green", we're going to need to do an awful lot of mining and loads of dirty chemical processes that extract metals from ores

    Most Greens I've met aren't ready for this

    Why can't we just stop doing all the bad things and live simple lives on the land?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    darkage said:

    Pulpstar said:

    As an occasional public transport user (Car in for MOT) I can't say having my train randomly cancelled is a particularly good advert for the system

    I've had lots of problems travelling by train this year to work - a journey of less than 50 miles that takes 1.5 hours by car, often the journey is in excess of 3 hours on the train due to delays, cancellations, timetable changes, the excuses are endless. The train fare is £30 return, about 30p / mile. Lots of people abandoned the train and lost their jobs after the strikes in 2016. By car it would be about £10 in petrol. People travel by car because there is no alternative.
    Nothing works in this country any more, it really does feel on the slide back to the 1970s, only with much worse music and worse economic growth.

    The problem with the railways is that - regarding the staff, no one cares anymore - it is total disinterest. They just laugh at you.
    Not just the railways, but in general British customer service is also getting worse, in my business too. Its back to the Seventies again.
    Travel more

    Customer service is an issue all over the world, post pandemic. This is not a uniquely British thing. People have been displaced, veteran workers have retired, migration patterns have altered

    It is probably worse in some aspects of British life than in other countries, but it is better here than elsewhere in other areas

    And urban decay is palpable and visible across the entire western world
    I went to the Faeroes wildlife watching earlier in the year, and Hamburg last year, and couldn't help but notice how much better customer service was in each. Germany used to have quite a reputation for rude shop staff, but it has changed. Hamburg is a lovely city, and great dining.

    The Faeroese were fantastic though. They don't get many tourists and always are curious and interested in travellers, indeed would invite us in for refreshments in the more isolated villages.

    Hamburg is one of the richest regions in all of Europe (and has been for a long time)

    "Hamburg and Oberbayern were among the ten most economically powerful EU regions in 2019. In Hamburg the gross domestic product per capita (adjusted for purchasing power) was 95% above the EU average."

    The Faroe Islands is one of the richest places on earth, with a GDP per capita of $80,000+ ranking it higher than Singapore


    https://forecaststats.com/charting/faroe-islands-gdp-per-capita-current-us-forecast/

    What you've done is basically go to Switzerland and Dubai and say "Gee, these places are doing better than Sunderland"
    Yes, I prefer surface travel, and so hard to get too far, but both were delightful places to visit.

    Germany will be fine. The Faeroes too, though half the Faeroese live in Denmark now.

    I'm not criticising you, I'm just noting that you kinda proved my point. You went to two nice, really rich places and you noticed that they are nicer and richer than the poorer bits of Britain. It is not an insight for the ages

    I do envy your trip to the Faroes. It is on my bucket list. I want to see the cliffs and the tunnels!

    I'm curious, do you not fly any more? Is this an aversion or just a preference?
    I do limit flying, in part because of Co2, but largely because I like surface travel. I took the train to Scotland, then the boat from there. Seeing England change into Scotland, then the Granite of Aberdeen, then into the Norwegian Sea was part of the enjoyment. I don't get seasick.

    Faeroes certainly are expensive, but so much coast and marine life that it is best seen by boat.

    Leicester to Europe by train is easy as the Eurostar goes from St Pancras, so just walk downstairs from Midland Mainline.
    Did you go see the cliffs? Don't they have the highest sea-cliffs in Eurpoe and maybe the world? (I think there is a dispute over the definition of "cliff")

    I have a mild obsession with enormous, terrifying sea-cliffs after visiting St Kilda and Foula
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    A

    Where are we going to get all the copper from to go fully electric?

    Chile and Peru (I think..) are going to have to be raped and pillaged ecologically for us to get halfway there globally

    Do we still have any significant copper ore deposits at places like Coniston that we could exploit?

    If we're going to go "green", we're going to need to do an awful lot of mining and loads of dirty chemical processes that extract metals from ores

    Most Greens I've met aren't ready for this

    Why can't we just stop doing all the bad things and live simple lives on the land?
    I wish to see you doing subsistence farming. From the position of being your feudal overlord.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Eastside said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    Sure but by the same token wise heads would say not to bet against rome in ad 450 as they had always muddled through before.
    If a plane crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border, on which side do you bury the survivors?
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Here we go again

    France fires: 3,000 tourists evacuated from campsites
    600 firefighters have been tackling the blaze, which has destroyed 500 hectares of the Pyrénées-Orientales

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/france-fires-south-west-evacuation-wildfires-blkqjjgzl
  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21
    Trump going on the attack again.

    JUST IN: Donald Trump announces an “irrefutable report” will be dropping next Monday about alleged election fraud that took place in Georgia.

    “A Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia is almost complete & will be presented by me at a major News Conference at 11:00 A.M. on Monday of next week in Bedminster, New Jersey. Based on the results of this conclusive Report, all charges should be dropped against me & others.”

    “There will be a complete exoneration! They never went after those that Rigged the Election. They only went after those that fought to find the RIGGERS!”

    https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1691463006717407232?s=20
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    Germany’s biggest challenge in the last 24 months has been energy costs, more than market challenges. 24 months ago is roughly when Gazprom started turning off the taps ahead of the invasion.

    A very significant amount of production has shifted from Germany to France during this time. France is benefitting from its nuclear power base in the same way the US benefited in the last decade from fracked gas. Whoever first finds themselves with a surplus of cheap renewable energy will get a similar industrial boost.

    It’s horrible to say it, but France was right on nuclear power.

    I’m not in favour of governments picking winners, but putting in an order for the first half dozen RR SMRs wouldn’t go amiss right now, before the Americans get a monopoly on them.
    The RR SMRs are almost certainly related to the AW4 and A1B - the reactors used by American aircraft carriers.

    I think this, because the SMRs are fundamentally a "stretch" of submarine reactor designs - the American reactors for the aircraft carriers were similarly a "stretch" design, when it became clear that the original Enterprise configuration of 8 reactors was way over the top.

    Given the heavy sharing of nuclear technology, it is highly probable that there are serious similarities. You might think that there would be clauses about not using such information in commercial products - but until very, very recently, a commercial use for a submarine type reactor was non-existent.
    The difference is that the military-spec fuel can’t be used in the commercial-spec reactors, so that’s where the development efforts are going.

    There needs to be government funding, or at least underwriting, because no-one else is going to be putting up the development budget, and there’s both a significant export market potential and a domestic market for such small reactors.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    Germany’s biggest challenge in the last 24 months has been energy costs, more than market challenges. 24 months ago is roughly when Gazprom started turning off the taps ahead of the invasion.

    A very significant amount of production has shifted from Germany to France during this time. France is benefitting from its nuclear power base in the same way the US benefited in the last decade from fracked gas. Whoever first finds themselves with a surplus of cheap renewable energy will get a similar industrial boost.

    It’s horrible to say it, but France was right on nuclear power.

    I’m not in favour of governments picking winners, but putting in an order for the first half dozen RR SMRs wouldn’t go amiss right now, before the Americans get a monopoly on them.
    The RR SMRs are almost certainly related to the AW4 and A1B - the reactors used by American aircraft carriers.

    I think this, because the SMRs are fundamentally a "stretch" of submarine reactor designs - the American reactors for the aircraft carriers were similarly a "stretch" design, when it became clear that the original Enterprise configuration of 8 reactors was way over the top.

    Given the heavy sharing of nuclear technology, it is highly probable that there are serious similarities. You might think that there would be clauses about not using such information in commercial products - but until very, very recently, a commercial use for a submarine type reactor was non-existent.
    The difference is that the military-spec fuel can’t be used in the commercial-spec reactors, so that’s where the development efforts are going.

    There needs to be government funding, or at least underwriting, because no-one else is going to be putting up the development budget, and there’s both a significant export market potential and a domestic market for such small reactors.
    The reactors will be higher enrichment than conventional large reactors. The question is how high. The US Navy looked at larger, low enrichment cores*, but didn't go ahead. Mainly because they had tons of HEU kicking about.

    *The actual core in one of these reactors is small. Almost startling so.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,007
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Has anyone mentioned that Christie is now polling second to Trump in New Hampshire?

    Yep: DeSantis has managed to drop out of the top two.

    Christie is definitely setting himself up as the old Republican candidate.

    The total implosion of the RDS campaign, is very wierd. I spent months wondering if he’d stand, but then he did and he might as well not bothered. His team have been worse then useless, spending their days online sh!tposting and trashing moderates.
    De Santis must be absolutely dying inside - the embarrassment of his failure is total.
    It makes no sense to me as an outsider. He’s one of the most popular politicians in the country, who gained a massive majority last time out against the national swing.

    But everyone who works for him is a total moron, massively-online and way more interested in sh!tting on Republican opponents than the President.
    Florida is not America and what works in a state may not work nationwide. Sarah Palin (Alaska) ran into the same problem.
  • Where are we going to get all the copper from to go fully electric?

    Chile and Peru (I think..) are going to have to be raped and pillaged ecologically for us to get halfway there globally

    Do we still have any significant copper ore deposits at places like Coniston that we could exploit?

    If we're going to go "green", we're going to need to do an awful lot of mining and loads of dirty chemical processes that extract metals from ores

    Most Greens I've met aren't ready for this

    Why can't we just stop doing all the bad things and live simple lives on the land?
    Are we going to commit animals or humans to slavery to provide "green" food for everyone?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,491
    edited August 2023
    This person could be Argentina's next president.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Milei
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,493
    Sandpit said:

    Eastside said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    I think where Britain falls behind is significantly down to education and aspiration. Immigrant groups are pro-education and very ambitious for their children.

    Britain seems run by old people who want to squeeze young people till the pips squeak, unless related to them.
    Yes the old problem of the gerontocracy. The UK is a health service with a small country attached.
    That specific sentence is rather familiar, even for those of us who agree with the sentiment.
    It's an excellent line, but 87% of GDP arises from non-health related activity. And most people most of the time go out of their way to avoid doctors as far as they possibly can. The average person sees their GP fewer than 5 times a year. Most people spend more time than that drinking, gambling, feeding the cat and tickling the baby's toes. Which is exactly as it should be.

  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21
    The question as always with the election is the halting of counting round 3am then the sudden massive vote dumps for Biden in states like Wisconsin. Its this that fuels the questions about the result and why so many republicans believe there was election fraud.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,757
    Miklosvar said:

    Eastside said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    Apparently Yorkshire is now on a oar with bucharest in Romania. Not good.
    As opposed to, what, bucharest in Hampshire?

    But anyway, you are right. Yorkshire should paddle its own canoe.
    Lancashire ftw.

    That's Lancashire in England, for the avoidance of doubt.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Eastside said:

    Trump going on the attack again.

    JUST IN: Donald Trump announces an “irrefutable report” will be dropping next Monday about alleged election fraud that took place in Georgia.

    “A Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia is almost complete & will be presented by me at a major News Conference at 11:00 A.M. on Monday of next week in Bedminster, New Jersey. Based on the results of this conclusive Report, all charges should be dropped against me & others.”

    “There will be a complete exoneration! They never went after those that Rigged the Election. They only went after those that fought to find the RIGGERS!”

    https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1691463006717407232?s=20

    Zzzzzz!

    They’ve had two and a half years to show all this alleged fraud . It will though likely go down well with his brain dead supporters on some Nebraska trailer park but anyone with a functioning brain will just roll their eyes at yet more desperate attempts by the orange turd to convince the public the election was stolen .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    Mad but interesting question

    Which is the US state most likely to secede?

    We focus on the left-right, Dem/GOP, coast-flyoverland divide, but I wonder if it might be Hawaii

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66507019


    "'You're kind of raised to hate tourists': Maui fires fan tensions on Hawaiian island"

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,968
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eastside said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    I think where Britain falls behind is significantly down to education and aspiration. Immigrant groups are pro-education and very ambitious for their children.

    Britain seems run by old people who want to squeeze young people till the pips squeak, unless related to them.
    Yes the old problem of the gerontocracy. The UK is a health service with a small country attached.
    That specific sentence is rather familiar, even for those of us who agree with the sentiment.
    It's an excellent line, but 87% of GDP arises from non-health related activity. And most people most of the time go out of their way to avoid doctors as far as they possibly can. The average person sees their GP fewer than 5 times a year. Most people spend more time than that drinking, gambling, feeding the cat and tickling the baby's toes. Which is exactly as it should be.

    My cats are of the opinion that 87% of GDP should be devoted to feeding cats.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    Where are we going to get all the copper from to go fully electric?

    Chile and Peru (I think..) are going to have to be raped and pillaged ecologically for us to get halfway there globally

    Do we still have any significant copper ore deposits at places like Coniston that we could exploit?

    If we're going to go "green", we're going to need to do an awful lot of mining and loads of dirty chemical processes that extract metals from ores

    Most Greens I've met aren't ready for this

    Why can't we just stop doing all the bad things and live simple lives on the land?
    Are we going to commit animals or humans to slavery to provide "green" food for everyone?
    Whenever I hear any one, arguing for slavery subsistence farming, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally.

    With apologies to A. Lincoln
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    But it really DOESN'T

    The graph is nonsensical

    Life expectancy UK: 81.5 years

    Life expectancy Mississippi: 71.9 years (ie lower than Cuba, Peru and - no joke - Syria)

    America's economic stats are way out of whack with the actual quality of life, the lived experience, of tens of millions of Americans
    They are simply the consequence of the US Dollar being too strong.
  • Eastside said:

    The question as always with the election is the halting of counting round 3am then the sudden massive vote dumps for Biden in states like Wisconsin. Its this that fuels the questions about the result and why so many republicans believe there was election fraud.

    Good evening Svetlana. Good to see you doing a weekday shift again.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eastside said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    I think where Britain falls behind is significantly down to education and aspiration. Immigrant groups are pro-education and very ambitious for their children.

    Britain seems run by old people who want to squeeze young people till the pips squeak, unless related to them.
    Yes the old problem of the gerontocracy. The UK is a health service with a small country attached.
    That specific sentence is rather familiar, even for those of us who agree with the sentiment.
    It's an excellent line, but 87% of GDP arises from non-health related activity. And most people most of the time go out of their way to avoid doctors as far as they possibly can. The average person sees their GP fewer than 5 times a year. Most people spend more time than that drinking, gambling, feeding the cat and tickling the baby's toes. Which is exactly as it should be.

    My cats are of the opinion that 87% of GDP should be devoted to feeding cats.
    I am of the opinion that 87% of GDP should be spent on nuclear weapons to guard against the inevitable evolution of opposable thumbs by cats. Then we will really, really need the nukes.
  • Just checked last year’s walking stats

    I’m a bit disappointed with myself


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048

    Just checked last year’s walking stats

    I’m a bit disappointed with myself


    Nice salute.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,491
    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    This just goes to show what a poor measure of quality of life GDP per head is, for the majority of people. No-one really believes that life for the average person is better in, say, Arkansas or Alabama than it is in the UK.
  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21
    nico679 said:

    Eastside said:

    Trump going on the attack again.

    JUST IN: Donald Trump announces an “irrefutable report” will be dropping next Monday about alleged election fraud that took place in Georgia.

    “A Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia is almost complete & will be presented by me at a major News Conference at 11:00 A.M. on Monday of next week in Bedminster, New Jersey. Based on the results of this conclusive Report, all charges should be dropped against me & others.”

    “There will be a complete exoneration! They never went after those that Rigged the Election. They only went after those that fought to find the RIGGERS!”

    https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1691463006717407232?s=20

    Zzzzzz!

    They’ve had two and a half years to show all this alleged fraud . It will though likely go down well with his brain dead supporters on some Nebraska trailer park but anyone with a functioning brain will just roll their eyes at yet more desperate attempts by the orange turd to convince the public the election was stolen .
    Wrong the number of people believing there was election fraud stretches to normal midlle class people. How could it not when so many republicans believe there was fraud.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,048
    Leon said:

    Mad but interesting question

    Which is the US state most likely to secede?

    We focus on the left-right, Dem/GOP, coast-flyoverland divide, but I wonder if it might be Hawaii

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66507019


    "'You're kind of raised to hate tourists': Maui fires fan tensions on Hawaiian island"

    Every area which is a tourist destination has a love/hate relationship with tourism. Especially the kind that brings expensive gentrification.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Eastside said:

    The question as always with the election is the halting of counting round 3am then the sudden massive vote dumps for Biden in states like Wisconsin. Its this that fuels the questions about the result and why so many republicans believe there was election fraud.

    But what about the BA pilots, and their predicilction for taking injections?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,493

    Where are we going to get all the copper from to go fully electric?

    Chile and Peru (I think..) are going to have to be raped and pillaged ecologically for us to get halfway there globally

    Do we still have any significant copper ore deposits at places like Coniston that we could exploit?

    If we're going to go "green", we're going to need to do an awful lot of mining and loads of dirty chemical processes that extract metals from ores

    Most Greens I've met aren't ready for this

    Why can't we just stop doing all the bad things and live simple lives on the land?
    Because Thomas Hobbes (genius):


    Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of war, where every man is enemy to every man, the same consequent to the time wherein men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them withal. In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no
    navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face
    of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282
    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    And that FT graph is orc excrement.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Eastside said:

    The question as always with the election is the halting of counting round 3am then the sudden massive vote dumps for Biden in states like Wisconsin. Its this that fuels the questions about the result and why so many republicans believe there was election fraud.

    There is no question. The GOP aka the US Taliban stopped the postal votes from being counted earlier and these went overwhelmingly towards Biden as they were finally counted.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,039
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    But it really DOESN'T

    The graph is nonsensical

    Life expectancy UK: 81.5 years

    Life expectancy Mississippi: 71.9 years (ie lower than Cuba, Peru and - no joke - Syria)

    America's economic stats are way out of whack with the actual quality of life, the lived experience, of tens of millions of Americans
    They are simply the consequence of the US Dollar being too strong.
    Sure, thats right, but it's not the entire explanation

    GDP per capita obviously doesn't give any clue as to things like: crime, drugs, homicide, homelessness, urban blight, sprawl, obesity, guns, etc

    I have been to the Walmart in Natchez, MS (a few times on different trips, actually, I love the historical and ongoing fucked-up ness of Ntchez). When you have been to the Walmart in Natchez, you have really seen America
  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21
    Andy_JS said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    This just goes to show what a poor measure of quality of life GDP per head is, for the majority of people. No-one really believes that life for the average person is better in, say, Arkansas or Alabama than it is in the UK.
    Disagree when you take into account how much of peoples money in the uk goes on property. Take away the bank of mum and dad and many even middle class people in the uk would be seriously struggling.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282

    Just checked last year’s walking stats

    I’m a bit disappointed with myself


    I wasn't happy with April either.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,493

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eastside said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    I think where Britain falls behind is significantly down to education and aspiration. Immigrant groups are pro-education and very ambitious for their children.

    Britain seems run by old people who want to squeeze young people till the pips squeak, unless related to them.
    Yes the old problem of the gerontocracy. The UK is a health service with a small country attached.
    That specific sentence is rather familiar, even for those of us who agree with the sentiment.
    It's an excellent line, but 87% of GDP arises from non-health related activity. And most people most of the time go out of their way to avoid doctors as far as they possibly can. The average person sees their GP fewer than 5 times a year. Most people spend more time than that drinking, gambling, feeding the cat and tickling the baby's toes. Which is exactly as it should be.

    My cats are of the opinion that 87% of GDP should be devoted to feeding cats.
    I know a couple of domestic economies (older ladies of a certain disposition) where this is pretty much the case.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,757
    edited August 2023

    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eastside said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    I think where Britain falls behind is significantly down to education and aspiration. Immigrant groups are pro-education and very ambitious for their children.

    Britain seems run by old people who want to squeeze young people till the pips squeak, unless related to them.
    Yes the old problem of the gerontocracy. The UK is a health service with a small country attached.
    That specific sentence is rather familiar, even for those of us who agree with the sentiment.
    It's an excellent line, but 87% of GDP arises from non-health related activity. And most people most of the time go out of their way to avoid doctors as far as they possibly can. The average person sees their GP fewer than 5 times a year. Most people spend more time than that drinking, gambling, feeding the cat and tickling the baby's toes. Which is exactly as it should be.

    My cats are of the opinion that 87% of GDP should be devoted to feeding cats.
    I am of the opinion that 87% of GDP should be spent on nuclear weapons to guard against the inevitable evolution of opposable thumbs by cats. Then we will really, really need the nukes.
    Thankfully cats have evolved to realise they just need to look kinda cute near some things that need the dumb monkey-creatures with opposable thumbs to sort out. So much less effort.

    "That fire thing is kinda nice and warm, but also a bit scary. Purrrrrrr purrrrrrrr. Could you just... sort that out? I'll look ever so cute curled up in a furry ball next to it...."
  • EastsideEastside Posts: 21
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    A

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    It's not even in dispute. The Germans admit it themselves. Their train system has gone down the khazi

    Like I said, this does not suddenly mean British trains being a bit shoddy (and often way too expensive) is acceptable, but it IS necessary perspective. Few PB-ers seem to travel much, or, if they do travel, they go to the regular, nice, rich places they always go to, which are - predictably - nice and rich

    Travel further afield and you can see post-pandemic and war-related issues EVERYWHERE. And sometimes arguably worse than that - eg the decline of urban inland America

    In short, Britain is in the doldrums, but we are far from alone, and some are actually sinking
    I think we are just never happier than when we think we are doomed.

    Britain is actually a safe, clean and pretty well run country in most respects.
    Everything outside of London averages out to Mississippi, according to that FT graph.

    Not great.
    But it really DOESN'T

    The graph is nonsensical

    Life expectancy UK: 81.5 years

    Life expectancy Mississippi: 71.9 years (ie lower than Cuba, Peru and - no joke - Syria)

    America's economic stats are way out of whack with the actual quality of life, the lived experience, of tens of millions of Americans
    They are simply the consequence of the US Dollar being too strong.
    Sure, thats right, but it's not the entire explanation

    GDP per capita obviously doesn't give any clue as to things like: crime, drugs, homicide, homelessness, urban blight, sprawl, obesity, guns, etc

    I have been to the Walmart in Natchez, MS (a few times on different trips, actually, I love the historical and ongoing fucked-up ness of Ntchez). When you have been to the Walmart in Natchez, you have really seen America
    Oh i agree you can live in genteel poverty in the uk in some quite nice areas.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Eastside said:

    nico679 said:

    Eastside said:

    Trump going on the attack again.

    JUST IN: Donald Trump announces an “irrefutable report” will be dropping next Monday about alleged election fraud that took place in Georgia.

    “A Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia is almost complete & will be presented by me at a major News Conference at 11:00 A.M. on Monday of next week in Bedminster, New Jersey. Based on the results of this conclusive Report, all charges should be dropped against me & others.”

    “There will be a complete exoneration! They never went after those that Rigged the Election. They only went after those that fought to find the RIGGERS!”

    https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1691463006717407232?s=20

    Zzzzzz!

    They’ve had two and a half years to show all this alleged fraud . It will though likely go down well with his brain dead supporters on some Nebraska trailer park but anyone with a functioning brain will just roll their eyes at yet more desperate attempts by the orange turd to convince the public the election was stolen .
    Wrong the number of people believing there was election fraud stretches to normal midlle class people. How could it not when so many republicans believe there was fraud.
    You can’t be normal middle class if you’re a Trump supporter. Normal is having a functioning brain.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eastside said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    I am afraid the actual facts say that you are wrong

    "Last year, a third of all long-distance trains operated by Germany's national railway company Deutsche Bahn ran late, the worst showing in 10 years, deepening an existential crisis in a country where failing to show up on time is verboten."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-late-trains-national-psyche-7d84166f
    Germany isnt what it was. The Foreign Sec Baerbock has had to cancel her trip midway in Asia because the government plane keeps breaking down

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus246899136/Baerbock-Was-die-gescheiterte-Reise-ueber-Deutschlands-Regierungsflotte-verraet.html
    And Germany, of course, is also in recession. Unlike the UK


    "In late May, confirmation came through of what many had feared. With gross domestic product (GDP) in Europe’s largest economy falling over two consecutive quarters—first by 0.5 percent in last year’s final quarter and then by 0.5 percent in the first quarter of 2023—Germany had officially fallen into a recession. And given its preeminent status as Europe’s leading economy, the implications for the region and the world cannot be underestimated. Is a prompt escape from this gloomy economic territory feasible, and if not, what does that mean for the world?"

    https://internationalbanker.com/finance/will-germany-remain-in-a-recession-for-long/

    Germany MAY be facing what Britain endured in the GFC - a massive challenge and abrupt shock to its fundamental economic model. For us it was our dependence on Financial Services, which suddenly became a serious negative, for them it might be their dependence on high value exports to China, at a time when China is simultaneously slumping, and ALSO trying to replace those high value German exports, worldwide

    We have yet to really recover from the shock of the GFC...
    It is certainly facing a shock. It has a heavy dependence on manufacturing and has been over dependent on Russia for energy. Sectors such as chemicals are openly saying they may have to move.

    However it would be rash to understeimate the resilience of Germany its part of the national psyche to refuse to admit they are beaten.
    It would indeed be rash to underestimate Germany, which is an admirable nation in many ways. Equally, no one got rich betting against the British eventually battling through. It's what we tend to do (in war, at least, if not in association football)

    But before we knock ourselves into shape we generally have a decade or two of pathetic adolescent weeping, and maybe that is where we are now
    I think where Britain falls behind is significantly down to education and aspiration. Immigrant groups are pro-education and very ambitious for their children.

    Britain seems run by old people who want to squeeze young people till the pips squeak, unless related to them.
    Yes the old problem of the gerontocracy. The UK is a health service with a small country attached.
    That specific sentence is rather familiar, even for those of us who agree with the sentiment.
    It's an excellent line, but 87% of GDP arises from non-health related activity. And most people most of the time go out of their way to avoid doctors as far as they possibly can. The average person sees their GP fewer than 5 times a year. Most people spend more time than that drinking, gambling, feeding the cat and tickling the baby's toes. Which is exactly as it should be.

    Fewer than 5?

    Before I got a phone call from the GP - which I had to battle for 2 months ago - I hadn't seen one since 2019.

    I'm not sure I will ever "see" one again.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,491

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    eg If you think British trains are shit, you could try German - yes, German - railways instead


    https://www.economist.com/business/2023/05/25/it-will-take-years-to-get-deutsche-bahn-back-on-track

    "Train to Bavaria — a lovely way to travel, if you can live with the delays
    From London to Altotting, via Augsnurg — Melanie McDonagh finds German trains are no better than our own"

    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/bavaria-train-travel-b1098774.html

    https://www.thelocal.de/20220818/a-disaster-how-did-train-travel-in-germany-get-so-bad

    I travelled on a German train from Berlin to Amsterdam in the summer: while only one trip, it was a pretty good experience.
    My brother who uses them regularly says they have really gone downhill.
    The anecdotes about delays on German trains being very unusual in the past were actually correct AFAIK.
  • Just checked last year’s walking stats

    I’m a bit disappointed with myself


    I wasn't happy with April either.
    That was Girona to Perpignan

    I enjoyed it!
This discussion has been closed.