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Can anything shift the polls for Sunak? – politicalbetting.com

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  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    pm215 said:


    Bikes? How about luggage? Lumo is an open-access operator on the London to Edinburgh route. Its trains are 5 coaches long, and have wholly inadequate provision for suitcases. When ordering the trains from Hitachi, First group had to obey a directive issued by the DfT about the number of seats. If they removed some seats for luggage racks, they wouldn't be given an open-access licence by Network Rail.

    The government have fetishised seat numbers as they cut costs. Operators can't have more rolling stock, or run additional services other than the ones directed by the DfT. So the number of seats has to be maximised. Hence the infamous "ironing board" seat used for commuter trains in Europe and as long haul seats here. Just cram them in - that way whichever berk is transport minister can proclaim that statistically all is well. Any bad experience you may be having (lack of space due to piles of luggage etc) must be a figment of your deranged imagination.

    Did you see the RAIB report about the Lumo overspeed traversal of points at Peterborough? One of the things they noted was that because of the reduced luggage rack provision there were more heavy suitcases in the overhead racks which then caused injuries when they fell out as the train lurched sideways...
    Interestingly the latest Modern Railways has a mention of the Peterborough incident - and, very worryingly, a later repetition. But also a long section on ECML n general. One issue being discussed - I forget which article - is the need for proper provision for heavy suitcases near the doors, with physical changes being mooted, right down to CCTV to reassure fretful tourists, and separate sections for Edinburgh and Newcastle. I can't recall which operators - possibly several and posdsibly Lumo - the mag is in the recycling bin - but your comment certainly throws a new light on these proposals.
    There is a tried and tested solution - create a secure space on the train where luggage and bikes and large items can be stored. Ironically the old trains which the Azumas have almost entirely replaced had that exact thing...
    At the risk of going all Yorkie (appropriately enough for the ECML) the even older* trains had a thing called the "guard's van" with a big metal cage and a through corridor next to it and resident guard and all. Many a trip at peak times I spent inside the cage sitting on my rucksack rather than stand in the passenger coaches.

    *admittedly the Deltic hauled ones. Not sure about the 125s.
    You were a wild lad in them days.
    Many moons ago I used to pick up the papers at the station , one night a dog bolted out of the guard's van and legged it up the platform with guard running after it shouting "stop that dug it's a parcel".
    Story made it to the Herald Diary.
    once a dog’s gone, it’s gone. No good the guard bitching about it.
    He was whelpissed off, though.
  • Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
  • Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    TOPPING said:

    Things I learned on PB while catching up with last night's thread: there is an anti-floating-bus-stop brigade.

    "Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing"

    With the crossing only being a yard wide, the pedestrians were all waiting to cross, so the cyclists were breaking the "should" rather than the "must".

    Generally works fine but definitely another challenge for the blind.
    I think BR accused me of not criticising cyclists who don't stop at zebra crossings - of course I do.

    Those kind of accusations are just projection from drivers trying to justify their own law-breaking, and a form of whataboutery given the thousands of pedestrians injured by drivers each year.

    This is obvious - a bike weighs 10kg. An SUV 2,500kg.
    Gentle tip, I get that you love cycling and are a real advocate for it but this is bordering on the fanatical and boring now.

    Actually puts me off.
    The active travel/sustainable travel car hating cycling fanatics/extremists are tedious in the extreme.

    The claim that people who don't cycle do not do so as they are scared of cars, or some such guff, is totally unfounded. Sure, there will be a few, but there are other reasons too.

    Most of us cyclists just enjoy our cycling. I cycle to work daily, I enjoy it. I do not see every cycle journey as a constant battle against motorists, pedestrians or dogs.

    I will jump red lights when I think it safe to do so as I will cycle on the pavement when safe to do so as a fair bit of it round by me is dual use.
    The problem is that the anti-cycling brigade just make stuff up to support their pre-existing prejudice.

    Dangerous driving is a huge deterrent. Particularly for women and children (hence the gender imbalance)

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906698/walking-and-cycling-statistics-england-2019.pdf
    Indeed. My step-daughter recently got a part-time job about a mile and a half away from our home, and, not being a driver, decided to cycle there. She's new to cycling and was too scared to ride on the busy road, so she used the pavement instead (there being no cycling infrastructure at all). Then she was shouted at for riding on the pavement, and then again a couple of weeks later, this time coming home in tears. Now she's packed in the job, partly because of the cycling issues, and is looking for something closer to home. She'll probably never cycle again now :disappointed:
    Cycling on the pavement can be fairly inconsiderate to other users of the pavement. Many pavements are simply not designed for cycling on, being too narrow or with too much street furniture. She should not have been shouted at, though.
    Yes, I wasn't terribly happy about her cycling on the pavement, although it is quite wide for most of the way and not that crowded. But I could well understand her fear of the road traffic and reluctantly condoned her pavement riding, so long as she was considerate to pedestrians. The point of the post was more with to do with the lack of cycling infrastructure for those who fear cycling on the road and the resulting curtailment of their freedom.
    Was there no training your daughter could have taken? When to use or leave cycle paths; the importance of taking primary position; when pedestrians have priority?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,099
    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The difference is the nation is being forced to EVs by the state, the transition from horses as a source of power to oil derivatives was entirely organic.
    I suppose the transition from leaded to unleaded fuel was also state led, though the infrastructure change for that was minimal in terms of fuel infrastructure unlike the ICE to EV move.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    According to the tramway museum in Crich, which I had the pleasure to visit yesterday:



    I think this hereby concludes our transport discussion.

    By the way the Derby dales continue to fascinate. It’s an area I’ve not visited for decades, and strikes me as an English version of la France profonde.

    Everything is at least a couple of decades behind here. The shop fronts, the decor, the cuisine (yesterday I had steak pie, peas and beans with gravy for lunch then “tapas” for dinner which was like some 1980s imagined idea of tapas). The dark wooded valleys and dark sandstone towns, all feeling a little bit “Auvergne”.

    The little Massif Central of England.

    I love the Derbyshire Dales; I feel like explored most of it on foot over the decades, and deeply associate with it.

    But I've never been to Crich tramway museum, oddly enough. Probably a case of it being both too near to visit, and there being other things that interested me more.
    More interesting than the Crich Tramway Museum??
    Crich Tramway Museum sounds like one of those gloriously eccentric places, which must be an absolute jewel, even though you have had no previous interest in tramways and have no idea where Crich is.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,099

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    My 2016 diesel is tax free :D
  • Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    My 2016 diesel is tax free :D
    My point exactly. Crazy.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    TOPPING said:

    Things I learned on PB while catching up with last night's thread: there is an anti-floating-bus-stop brigade.

    "Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing"

    With the crossing only being a yard wide, the pedestrians were all waiting to cross, so the cyclists were breaking the "should" rather than the "must".

    Generally works fine but definitely another challenge for the blind.
    I think BR accused me of not criticising cyclists who don't stop at zebra crossings - of course I do.

    Those kind of accusations are just projection from drivers trying to justify their own law-breaking, and a form of whataboutery given the thousands of pedestrians injured by drivers each year.

    This is obvious - a bike weighs 10kg. An SUV 2,500kg.
    Gentle tip, I get that you love cycling and are a real advocate for it but this is bordering on the fanatical and boring now.

    Actually puts me off.
    The active travel/sustainable travel car hating cycling fanatics/extremists are tedious in the extreme.

    The claim that people who don't cycle do not do so as they are scared of cars, or some such guff, is totally unfounded. Sure, there will be a few, but there are other reasons too.

    Most of us cyclists just enjoy our cycling. I cycle to work daily, I enjoy it. I do not see every cycle journey as a constant battle against motorists, pedestrians or dogs.

    I will jump red lights when I think it safe to do so as I will cycle on the pavement when safe to do so as a fair bit of it round by me is dual use.
    The problem is that the anti-cycling brigade just make stuff up to support their pre-existing prejudice.

    Dangerous driving is a huge deterrent. Particularly for women and children (hence the gender imbalance)

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906698/walking-and-cycling-statistics-england-2019.pdf
    Indeed. My step-daughter recently got a part-time job about a mile and a half away from our home, and, not being a driver, decided to cycle there. She's new to cycling and was too scared to ride on the busy road, so she used the pavement instead (there being no cycling infrastructure at all). Then she was shouted at for riding on the pavement, and then again a couple of weeks later, this time coming home in tears. Now she's packed in the job, partly because of the cycling issues, and is looking for something closer to home. She'll probably never cycle again now :disappointed:
    Cycling on the pavement can be fairly inconsiderate to other users of the pavement. Many pavements are simply not designed for cycling on, being too narrow or with too much street furniture. She should not have been shouted at, though.
    Yes, I wasn't terribly happy about her cycling on the pavement, although it is quite wide for most of the way and not that crowded. But I could well understand her fear of the road traffic and reluctantly condoned her pavement riding, so long as she was considerate to pedestrians. The point of the post was more with to do with the lack of cycling infrastructure for those who fear cycling on the road and the resulting curtailment of their freedom.
    Was there no training your daughter could have taken? When to use or leave cycle paths; the importance of taking primary position; when pedestrians have priority?
    Part of my concern over 'cycling infrastructure' is that it actually prevents cyclists from learning the proper rules of the road. Including obeying traffic signals. Part of a trend of 'safetyism' that actually infantilises the population and makes them less resilient.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,350

    Barclay: We are in trouble with our 40 new hospitals pledge
    PM: That is disappointing [looks at members of the Cabinet] … this isn’t good, any ideas
    Lucy Frazer: I have a plan and it is for a much bigger number
    PM: Go on
    LF: 100 chessboards
    PM: 100 are you sure?
    LF: in parks

    (from https://twitter.com/forwardnotback/status/1686745545182703617 )

    Such a good idea.
    Lucy will probably be Knighted.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    Ha. Thats a recipe for a Tory lead. Cheers!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,373

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    Surely the private sector has provided precisely enough EV charging points to meet demand - why would they not? Either that or there's a serious distortion in the economics of providing power to EVs that needs to be sorted out.
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    Ha. Thats a recipe for a Tory lead. Cheers!
    I'm sure it's coming any day now. 20 points at last count, you'll be in government again by Christmas
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The difference is the nation is being forced to EVs by the state, the transition from horses as a source of power to oil derivatives was entirely organic.
    I suppose the transition from leaded to unleaded fuel was also state led, though the infrastructure change for that was minimal in terms of fuel infrastructure unlike the ICE to EV move.

    The solution then is to stop forcing people to change their behaviours....
  • Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The difference is the nation is being forced to EVs by the state, the transition from horses as a source of power to oil derivatives was entirely organic.
    I suppose the transition from leaded to unleaded fuel was also state led, though the infrastructure change for that was minimal in terms of fuel infrastructure unlike the ICE to EV move.

    The solution then is to stop forcing people to change their behaviours....
    Fuck the environment then.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    I don't know if I'm 'woke' or not (because everyone seems to have their own definition...), but I thoroughly agree with this piccie.

    https://twitter.com/ScouseAtheist/status/1685936162043523073/photo/1

    ;)

    Shit, was that worth 5 seconds of all our lives being sent off to X?

    To save anyone else's time It says "I love being 'woke', it's much nicer than being an ignorant fucking twat," with a picture of Stephen Fry after transitioning. That's it. I mean, it's pretty safe to agree with that, for any value in the quotes: "I love being 胖的, it's much nicer than being an ignorant fucking twat". On the other hand if you admittedly don't know what the word in quotes means you might be agreeing with "I love being 大眾兇手, it's much nicer than being an ignorant fucking twat".

    Back to the tram museum.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    Ha. Thats a recipe for a Tory lead. Cheers!
    I'm sure it's coming any day now. 20 points at last count, you'll be in government again by Christmas
    Not sure if you noticed, but Labour aren't in govt....
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    Ha. Thats a recipe for a Tory lead. Cheers!
    I'm sure it's coming any day now. 20 points at last count, you'll be in government again by Christmas
    Not sure if you noticed, but Labour aren't in govt....
    You'll be re-elected by Christmas then
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The difference is the nation is being forced to EVs by the state, the transition from horses as a source of power to oil derivatives was entirely organic.
    I suppose the transition from leaded to unleaded fuel was also state led, though the infrastructure change for that was minimal in terms of fuel infrastructure unlike the ICE to EV move.

    The solution then is to stop forcing people to change their behaviours....
    Fuck the environment then.
    Not forcing something doesn't mean 'f the environment'.

    It means you encourage, incentivise, rather than dictate.

    Sadly the overbearing public sector seem drunk on power, and yet incapable of understanding who pays their salaries.
  • Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    TOPPING said:

    Things I learned on PB while catching up with last night's thread: there is an anti-floating-bus-stop brigade.

    "Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing"

    With the crossing only being a yard wide, the pedestrians were all waiting to cross, so the cyclists were breaking the "should" rather than the "must".

    Generally works fine but definitely another challenge for the blind.
    I think BR accused me of not criticising cyclists who don't stop at zebra crossings - of course I do.

    Those kind of accusations are just projection from drivers trying to justify their own law-breaking, and a form of whataboutery given the thousands of pedestrians injured by drivers each year.

    This is obvious - a bike weighs 10kg. An SUV 2,500kg.
    Gentle tip, I get that you love cycling and are a real advocate for it but this is bordering on the fanatical and boring now.

    Actually puts me off.
    The active travel/sustainable travel car hating cycling fanatics/extremists are tedious in the extreme.

    The claim that people who don't cycle do not do so as they are scared of cars, or some such guff, is totally unfounded. Sure, there will be a few, but there are other reasons too.

    Most of us cyclists just enjoy our cycling. I cycle to work daily, I enjoy it. I do not see every cycle journey as a constant battle against motorists, pedestrians or dogs.

    I will jump red lights when I think it safe to do so as I will cycle on the pavement when safe to do so as a fair bit of it round by me is dual use.
    The problem is that the anti-cycling brigade just make stuff up to support their pre-existing prejudice.

    Dangerous driving is a huge deterrent. Particularly for women and children (hence the gender imbalance)

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906698/walking-and-cycling-statistics-england-2019.pdf
    Indeed. My step-daughter recently got a part-time job about a mile and a half away from our home, and, not being a driver, decided to cycle there. She's new to cycling and was too scared to ride on the busy road, so she used the pavement instead (there being no cycling infrastructure at all). Then she was shouted at for riding on the pavement, and then again a couple of weeks later, this time coming home in tears. Now she's packed in the job, partly because of the cycling issues, and is looking for something closer to home. She'll probably never cycle again now :disappointed:
    Cycling on the pavement can be fairly inconsiderate to other users of the pavement. Many pavements are simply not designed for cycling on, being too narrow or with too much street furniture. She should not have been shouted at, though.
    Yes, I wasn't terribly happy about her cycling on the pavement, although it is quite wide for most of the way and not that crowded. But I could well understand her fear of the road traffic and reluctantly condoned her pavement riding, so long as she was considerate to pedestrians. The point of the post was more with to do with the lack of cycling infrastructure for those who fear cycling on the road and the resulting curtailment of their freedom.
    Was there no training your daughter could have taken? When to use or leave cycle paths; the importance of taking primary position; when pedestrians have priority?
    Not daughter, step-daughter, and that's not the point. The point is that there are no cycle paths that she could use, and no amount of training is going to stop her being fearful of riding along a busy road with heavy traffic thundering by next to her. Hell, it scares me sometimes.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited August 2023
    Magnus Carlsen plays in the park:

    https://tv.vg.no/video/73842/se-carlsen-knuse-new-yorks-34-chess-hustlers-34

    I think there's another video where he plays in Central Park in New York, against these guys, some of them homeless, who could beat almost anybody in the world at 1-minute chess but Carlsen wins a few games and fast. Someone asks them afterwards whether they knew who they were playing, and that it was Magnus Carlsen, and they go "Yeah, we knew it was someone strong. Doesn't surprise me that it was him." There seems to be a culture there of respect for good play, doesn't matter who you are, homeless or whatever. No posing, no holding your expensive skis up to the camera, all that kinda crap.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,749
    Peck said:

    "I’ve been trying to pin it down but there is something lacking in his approach and how it comes out on TV."

    He's softly spoken and he doesn't come across as strong. Many gumbies whichever of Britain's castes they belong to prefer a strong leader who they can imagine sorting everyone out, giving 'em what for, and doing things like travelling all the way to "Europe" and telling foreigners where to get off. That's one of the prime minister's problems.

    There's also the fact that many habitual Tory voters think they've voted Tory all their lives and they're f*cked if they'll continue if the guy the Tories give them as prime minister isn't white.

    50-50 Penny Mordaunt, Union Jack-face, Order of the Loud Voice and True Confidence, takes over before the election?

    Mordaunt is too Woke for most Tories
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,749
    Greenpeace protestors climb the roof of Sunak's North Yorkshire home

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-66391947
  • Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The difference is the nation is being forced to EVs by the state, the transition from horses as a source of power to oil derivatives was entirely organic.
    I suppose the transition from leaded to unleaded fuel was also state led, though the infrastructure change for that was minimal in terms of fuel infrastructure unlike the ICE to EV move.

    The solution then is to stop forcing people to change their behaviours....
    Fuck the environment then.
    Not forcing something doesn't mean 'f the environment'.

    It means you encourage, incentivise, rather than dictate.

    Sadly the overbearing public sector seem drunk on power, and yet incapable of understanding who pays their salaries.
    ROFL then it's the Tories you have a problem with, they've been in Government for 13 years.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    HYUFD said:

    Peck said:

    "I’ve been trying to pin it down but there is something lacking in his approach and how it comes out on TV."

    He's softly spoken and he doesn't come across as strong. Many gumbies whichever of Britain's castes they belong to prefer a strong leader who they can imagine sorting everyone out, giving 'em what for, and doing things like travelling all the way to "Europe" and telling foreigners where to get off. That's one of the prime minister's problems.

    There's also the fact that many habitual Tory voters think they've voted Tory all their lives and they're f*cked if they'll continue if the guy the Tories give them as prime minister isn't white.

    50-50 Penny Mordaunt, Union Jack-face, Order of the Loud Voice and True Confidence, takes over before the election?

    Mordaunt is too Woke for most Tories
    That's a problem for the Tories.

    And what do you mean by "Woke" ?
  • Mortimer said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    TOPPING said:

    Things I learned on PB while catching up with last night's thread: there is an anti-floating-bus-stop brigade.

    "Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing"

    With the crossing only being a yard wide, the pedestrians were all waiting to cross, so the cyclists were breaking the "should" rather than the "must".

    Generally works fine but definitely another challenge for the blind.
    I think BR accused me of not criticising cyclists who don't stop at zebra crossings - of course I do.

    Those kind of accusations are just projection from drivers trying to justify their own law-breaking, and a form of whataboutery given the thousands of pedestrians injured by drivers each year.

    This is obvious - a bike weighs 10kg. An SUV 2,500kg.
    Gentle tip, I get that you love cycling and are a real advocate for it but this is bordering on the fanatical and boring now.

    Actually puts me off.
    The active travel/sustainable travel car hating cycling fanatics/extremists are tedious in the extreme.

    The claim that people who don't cycle do not do so as they are scared of cars, or some such guff, is totally unfounded. Sure, there will be a few, but there are other reasons too.

    Most of us cyclists just enjoy our cycling. I cycle to work daily, I enjoy it. I do not see every cycle journey as a constant battle against motorists, pedestrians or dogs.

    I will jump red lights when I think it safe to do so as I will cycle on the pavement when safe to do so as a fair bit of it round by me is dual use.
    The problem is that the anti-cycling brigade just make stuff up to support their pre-existing prejudice.

    Dangerous driving is a huge deterrent. Particularly for women and children (hence the gender imbalance)

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906698/walking-and-cycling-statistics-england-2019.pdf
    Indeed. My step-daughter recently got a part-time job about a mile and a half away from our home, and, not being a driver, decided to cycle there. She's new to cycling and was too scared to ride on the busy road, so she used the pavement instead (there being no cycling infrastructure at all). Then she was shouted at for riding on the pavement, and then again a couple of weeks later, this time coming home in tears. Now she's packed in the job, partly because of the cycling issues, and is looking for something closer to home. She'll probably never cycle again now :disappointed:
    Cycling on the pavement can be fairly inconsiderate to other users of the pavement. Many pavements are simply not designed for cycling on, being too narrow or with too much street furniture. She should not have been shouted at, though.
    Yes, I wasn't terribly happy about her cycling on the pavement, although it is quite wide for most of the way and not that crowded. But I could well understand her fear of the road traffic and reluctantly condoned her pavement riding, so long as she was considerate to pedestrians. The point of the post was more with to do with the lack of cycling infrastructure for those who fear cycling on the road and the resulting curtailment of their freedom.
    Was there no training your daughter could have taken? When to use or leave cycle paths; the importance of taking primary position; when pedestrians have priority?
    Part of my concern over 'cycling infrastructure' is that it actually prevents cyclists from learning the proper rules of the road. Including obeying traffic signals. Part of a trend of 'safetyism' that actually infantilises the population and makes them less resilient.
    Utter bollocks. The lack of cycling infrastructure simply stops a lot of people from cycling and puts more cars on the road.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    According to the tramway museum in Crich, which I had the pleasure to visit yesterday:



    I think this hereby concludes our transport discussion.

    By the way the Derby dales continue to fascinate. It’s an area I’ve not visited for decades, and strikes me as an English version of la France profonde.

    Everything is at least a couple of decades behind here. The shop fronts, the decor, the cuisine (yesterday I had steak pie, peas and beans with gravy for lunch then “tapas” for dinner which was like some 1980s imagined idea of tapas). The dark wooded valleys and dark sandstone towns, all feeling a little bit “Auvergne”.

    The little Massif Central of England.

    I love the Derbyshire Dales; I feel like explored most of it on foot over the decades, and deeply associate with it.

    But I've never been to Crich tramway museum, oddly enough. Probably a case of it being both too near to visit, and there being other things that interested me more.
    More interesting than the Crich Tramway Museum??
    Crich Tramway Museum sounds like one of those gloriously eccentric places, which must be an absolute jewel, even though you have had no previous interest in tramways and have no idea where Crich is.
    I know what you mean. For 3-4 years I used to take my eldest kid on mad roadtrips out of London, picnic ready on the backseat kind of thing (with all necessary condiments!) and.... we'd just see what we found. We could end up looking at a celebrated church in Suffolk or a weird half-demolished stately home in Beds or (briefly) examining the tedious town centre of Guldford. The whole idea was to be spontaneous. One day we happened upon this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvedon_Hatch_Secret_Nuclear_Bunker

    No words can really capture the magnificent eccentricity of this place. It is simultaneously cringe yet compelling, naff yet amazing. It really was our big UK nuclear bunker - clearly run on an NHS style shoestring - where the PM would be spirited if it all Kicked Off. They have a terrible waxwork of Margaret Thatcher hiding under a dingy blanket in one room. That just about sums it up

    Go!




  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,350

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    Surely the private sector has provided precisely enough EV charging points to meet demand - why would they not? Either that or there's a serious distortion in the economics of providing power to EVs that needs to be sorted out.
    Or, the absence of charging points suppresses demand?
    Where I live (terraced house, city, on-street parking somewhere near the house if I'm lucky) an EV simply wouldn't be viable unless the charging points multiplied hugely.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The difference is the nation is being forced to EVs by the state, the transition from horses as a source of power to oil derivatives was entirely organic.
    I suppose the transition from leaded to unleaded fuel was also state led, though the infrastructure change for that was minimal in terms of fuel infrastructure unlike the ICE to EV move.

    The solution then is to stop forcing people to change their behaviours....
    Fuck the environment then.
    Not forcing something doesn't mean 'f the environment'.

    It means you encourage, incentivise, rather than dictate.

    Sadly the overbearing public sector seem drunk on power, and yet incapable of understanding who pays their salaries.
    ROFL then it's the Tories you have a problem with, they've been in Government for 13 years.
    It's the culture of a big state. It would only get worse under Labour, because of the unions....
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,330

    Mortimer said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The difference is the nation is being forced to EVs by the state, the transition from horses as a source of power to oil derivatives was entirely organic.
    I suppose the transition from leaded to unleaded fuel was also state led, though the infrastructure change for that was minimal in terms of fuel infrastructure unlike the ICE to EV move.

    The solution then is to stop forcing people to change their behaviours....
    Fuck the environment then.
    We can merrily do what we want, meanwhile

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/china-s-2023-coal-approvals-grow-over-50-gw-greenpeace-says/ar-AA1eIGQS
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,686

    Barclay: We are in trouble with our 40 new hospitals pledge
    PM: That is disappointing [looks at members of the Cabinet] … this isn’t good, any ideas
    Lucy Frazer: I have a plan and it is for a much bigger number
    PM: Go on
    LF: 100 chessboards
    PM: 100 are you sure?
    LF: in parks

    (from https://twitter.com/forwardnotback/status/1686745545182703617 )

    Such a good idea.
    Lucy will probably be Knighted.
    I feel like we may as well get all the puns out of the way at once.

    Let me check, mate... It's more likely a rook(ie) error, I'd say. Daftest gambit since the Queen died at that Castle and the King was crowned. They're treating us like pawns, it's the kind of idea Harold Bishop would have come up with. Still, it matches the checkered history of this government.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,972
    edited August 2023
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    According to the tramway museum in Crich, which I had the pleasure to visit yesterday:



    I think this hereby concludes our transport discussion.

    By the way the Derby dales continue to fascinate. It’s an area I’ve not visited for decades, and strikes me as an English version of la France profonde.

    Everything is at least a couple of decades behind here. The shop fronts, the decor, the cuisine (yesterday I had steak pie, peas and beans with gravy for lunch then “tapas” for dinner which was like some 1980s imagined idea of tapas). The dark wooded valleys and dark sandstone towns, all feeling a little bit “Auvergne”.

    The little Massif Central of England.

    I love the Derbyshire Dales; I feel like explored most of it on foot over the decades, and deeply associate with it.

    But I've never been to Crich tramway museum, oddly enough. Probably a case of it being both too near to visit, and there being other things that interested me more.
    More interesting than the Crich Tramway Museum??
    Crich Tramway Museum sounds like one of those gloriously eccentric places, which must be an absolute jewel, even though you have had no previous interest in tramways and have no idea where Crich is.
    It's a physical manifestation of one of those weird jigsaw puzzles of "ye olde" English scenes with morris dancers, pubs, old sweet shoppes, classic cars and Nigel Farage smoking a cigar in the corner.

    Indeed it feels very much like a certain vision of post-Brexit Britain. At one point one of the punters congratulated the young dressed up tram guard saying "good on you, you're keeping history alive son". I later saw the same visitor in the gift shop(pe) regaling the lady behind the counter about children self-identifying as cats.
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    My 2016 diesel is tax free :D
    The "You are now entering X Zone" signs have a psychological effect that's much more important than raising a bit of money from drivers of older diesel cars and encouraging owners of said cars to trade them in.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,330
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    Wealth tax on the 1% ?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,686
    HYUFD said:

    Greenpeace protestors climb the roof of Sunak's North Yorkshire home

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-66391947

    Interesting that - neither him nor the family there, but isn't there a police guard anyway? Or does that just follow him/family around? It seems like the kind of thing that shouldn't be possible for security issues - if greenpeace can get up there with a banner, it would be possible for someone to hide with a weapon to to leave some kind of explosive device, you'd think.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,806
    HYUFD said:

    Peck said:

    "I’ve been trying to pin it down but there is something lacking in his approach and how it comes out on TV."

    He's softly spoken and he doesn't come across as strong. Many gumbies whichever of Britain's castes they belong to prefer a strong leader who they can imagine sorting everyone out, giving 'em what for, and doing things like travelling all the way to "Europe" and telling foreigners where to get off. That's one of the prime minister's problems.

    There's also the fact that many habitual Tory voters think they've voted Tory all their lives and they're f*cked if they'll continue if the guy the Tories give them as prime minister isn't white.

    50-50 Penny Mordaunt, Union Jack-face, Order of the Loud Voice and True Confidence, takes over before the election?

    Mordaunt is too Woke for most Tories
    Just remember the sword. What more can you want in a leader?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,955
    .

    Carnyx said:

    Talking about bicycles not being suitable for over 50s in some folks' opinion...

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/03/over-50s-could-deliver-takeaways-says-work-and-pensions-secretary-mel-stride

    'Over-50s looking for work should consider delivering takeaways and other flexible jobs typically occupied by younger people, the work and pensions secretary has said.

    Mel Stride’s comments came during a visit to the London headquarters of the food delivery firm Deliveroo, which has recorded a 62% increase in riders aged over 50 since 2021.

    In an interview with the Times during his visit to the food delivery company, Stride said these flexible jobs offered “great opportunities” and that it was “good for people to consider options they might not have otherwise thought of”.'

    He may need a new job next year so great to see him looking ahead. Well done, Mel.
    The next step for Stride ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,330
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:
    Agreed.

    Greenpeace should disband and the money be put towards useful projects, like developing carbon capture systems.
    They're too busy performing meaningless stunts and grifting for cash with pointless polls on social media that simply serve as data harvesting excercises.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Greenpeace protestors climb the roof of Sunak's North Yorkshire home

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-66391947

    Interesting that - neither him nor the family there, but isn't there a police guard anyway? Or does that just follow him/family around? It seems like the kind of thing that shouldn't be possible for security issues - if greenpeace can get up there with a banner, it would be possible for someone to hide with a weapon to to leave some kind of explosive device, you'd think.
    Very concerning indeed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    edited August 2023
    I hesitate to butt into the tram v cycling v tunderground maglev trolleybus debate - there is so much EXPERTISE - but I actually have an opinion on trams. And that opinion is NO. Trams = BAD

    Why? Coz they are so frigging ugly. They demand rails in the middle of the road and hideous loops of cables and wires overhead and tramstops of concrete in the middle of potentially lovely streets

    I'm in a beautiful Habsburg city in Ukraine, as I have mentioned. Chernovtsi. Yet despite the lovely architecture it is very hard to take a satisfying photo because every frame is laced with these big black cables everywhere, like the place is only half built and the wiring hasn't been finished

    We've already uglified Britain enough. We should now be beautifying. NO TRAMS - unless a city is so ugly it doesn't matter. So yeah Manc or Sheffield OK

  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Barclay: We are in trouble with our 40 new hospitals pledge
    PM: That is disappointing [looks at members of the Cabinet] … this isn’t good, any ideas
    Lucy Frazer: I have a plan and it is for a much bigger number
    PM: Go on
    LF: 100 chessboards
    PM: 100 are you sure?
    LF: in parks

    (from https://twitter.com/forwardnotback/status/1686745545182703617 )

    Such a good idea.
    Lucy will probably be Knighted.
    They should make her a baroness, like Barbara Castle.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123
    Taz said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    Wealth tax on the 1% ?
    People always want their pet projects funded by other people.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,955
    If the Republican Party responds to the Trump indictment solely by attacking courts and judges, and if its leaders continue to work to de-legitimize the legal system, I am not sure how we recover.
    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1687013751378046976
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,330

    Am I the only one on here who still believes in low taxes?

    You can't tax yourself into prosperity - that's like standing in a bucket and trying to pull yourself up by the handles - and tax levels on earners are already obscene, and fiscal drag is making them worse.

    Instead, we need to accept the State doing less. I think we spend far too much on older voters and they need to take more personal responsibility, work a bit longer, save a bit more, and make more provision for themselves.

    You have forgotten about growth. If the economy expands we can have low taxes and high government spending.
    I haven't, and I would like that.

    I just don't think increasing the tax burden is going to do anything other than reduce that.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,104
    A
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    a



    If you want to support public transport (buses), support new roads.

    Everyone wins with new roads. Cyclists and drivers.

    The thing is the cost of, say, 10 miles of new dual carriageway on average per parliamentary consituency (of course good luck finding available land in many of the most congested areas), would pay for:

    - Everyone in the country to have a new high-spec bike, and
    - Free buses for the duration of the next Parliament, and
    - A 50% reduction in train fares, for the duration of the next Parliament, and
    - £250 a year in 'taxi tokens' for every rural dweller who won't benefit from better public tranport, for the duration of the next Parliament, and
    - A 25% annual rebate on council tax, for the duration of the next Parliament, and
    - The free installation of EV charging points for 1 in 10 homes, and
    - HS2, and HS3.
    Please explain your figures.

    £20m is a rough estimate of the cost per mile of dual carriageway. So 10x £20m = £200m, for 650 constituencies is about the same cost as HS2 alone.

    And 10 miles of dual carriageway per constituency would do massively more than all of your suggestions combined. Let alone HS2 alone.

    And not all new roads would need to be dual carriageway either.
    £20m is the lower bound. £40m seems to be an accepted average figure, with the range anything from £18m to £100m.

    So that's 40*650*10 millions = £260bn.

    - Everyone in the country to have a new high-spec bike: £400 for 70m people = £28bn, £232bn left.
    - Free buses for the duration of the next Parliament: annual fares income £2.3bn, times five, £220.5bn left
    - A 50% reduction in train fares, for the duration of the next Parliament: annual fares income £10.2b, times 2.5, £195bn left
    - £250 a year in 'taxi tokens' for every rural dweller who won't benefit from better public tranport, for the duration of the next Parliament: 10 million rural dwellers, times £250, times 5, £182.5bn left
    - A 25% annual rebate on council tax, for the duration of the next Parliament: Council tax raised £44bn annual, divide by 4 times by 5, £127.5bn left
    - The free installation of EV charging points for 1 in 10 homes: domestic charging point around £1k, times 2.5 million, £125bn left which covers pretty much all of the cost of building HS2 with the HS3 elements reinstated.
    OK, I think you've overestimated the cost of construction and you've massively underestimated the cost of your proposals. Its fair to go with a higher estimate for your figures, but then you need to do the same with all your other figures.

    £400 is a fairly low spec new bike, 4-figures for a pretty basic high spec bike. £1000 for 70m people = £70bn which is a bit of a difference.

    Free buses for the duration of the next Parliament (absolutely zero investment, pure expense) - this would cost much more than the cost of annual fares income, since if buses became free then more people would use them, so the policy would be more expensive. Moderate assumption cost £4.6bn of which £0 would be investment.

    A reduction in train fares - Again £0 in investment whatsoever and a policy that does not apply at all to 95% of transportation in the UK. Why would you even consider this as a proposal? And again you've not counted the fact that if fares halved then the cost would rise.

    Taxi tokens - again £0 in investment whatsoever. Why would you even consider this?

    Rebate on Council Tax - again £0 in investment whatsoever. Why would you even consider this?

    EV Charging points - OK finally some actual investment! Thank you. Though investment that only helps those with driveways/off-road parking, which are the ones who least need support as we transition to EV vehicles.

    So overall you've taken a proposal that would vastly improve the infrastructure in this country for decades to come, and turned it into a five year piss-up purely on consumption that after five years would have no investment at all to show for it apart from some EV Charging Points and some bikes that go idle for most people. Great job.
    On EV charging.

    It is clear that the future is fast charging. We are down to 15 minutes for 20-80 charges for high end vehicles. At the current rate of progress, it will be sub 10 minutes for all EVs in a couple of years.

    In the US, Tesla has just won the connector standards war. Why? Well, the opposition to using the Tesla plug was only the government, and all the other car makers.

    One problem was that they weren’t into actually building chargers. Meanwhile the charger arm of Tesla is profitable and expanding at a compound rate.

    The other problem was the shit experience of using the non-Tesla chargers. They seem to have been designed by people who thought that U.K. parking ticket machines/apps are too user friendly.

    Lastly. the “standard” plug was insanely bad. Committee design all the way.

    What does this tell us :

    - Build the fucking super chargers.
    - Make the system user friendly. Plug in and charge is perfectly possible.
    - Imposing a standard only works if th standard is good, the implementation is good and it is actually widespread.
    Happily the UK didn't go down the Type 1 connector rabbit hole. We use the effective global standard of CCS2. Yes its a big connector but it is universal. And the new v4 superchargers now being installed have a tap to pay feature for non-Tesla drivers.
    The payment should be automatic via a handshake with the car's systems.

    Tesla are still miles ahead in chargers that exist and work. Installing one small charger in a supermarket car park and then leaving it broken is fuckwittery. The problem is that it's "We have EV chargers" presentee'ism - alot of the providers still see it as a cost, and problem. So minimum effort.

    The Tesla charger outfit actually makes a profit. So they, as an organisation are wired (ha!) to think "Lets get some more of that".

    I fear that getting that kind of handshake for payment is impossible with so many different car and charger manufacturer combinations.

    The joy of superchargers is that they manage to be simplicity itself to use, deliver a far quicker charge than almost every other charger / car in most uses, and is a lot cheaper than most other chargers. Like 25 - 50% cheaper.
    Is there any particular reason the payment system just be the same as pay at pump for ICE fuelling ?
    No reason other than the free market. 40 different charging networks, each with a different tariff, different rules and so often a different app. They want your details so they can make revenue from user data. A few of them let you tap a credit card - usually at a higher price than if you hand over all your data.

    I've made several videos featuring the joys of public charging. Park up. Get the cable out the frunk, plug it in. Go to the app (or download the app!) for the network you're plugged into. Make sure you have a credit card registered. Select the correct charger. Ask it to start. You then have to wait for the app to communicate to the company whose charger it is (often the back office payment company is not the one who own the actual charger) which hopefully then starts a charge.
    Good Lord, what a nonsense.
    And that's just what we call The Happy Path in IT. Meaning it works.

    Tesla - Your car knows it's an approaching a supercharger. So it is getting the battery the optimum charging temperature, automatically. You park. You plugin. Charging starts. If you want to go and get a coffee, the app on your phone will tell you the exact state of the charging
  • Leon said:

    I hesitate to butt into the tram v cycling v tunderground maglev trolleybus debate - there is so much EXPERTISE - but I actually have an opinion on trams. And that opinion is NO. Trams = BAD

    Why? Coz they are so frigging ugly. They demand rails in the middle of the road and hideous loops of cables and wires overhead and tramstops of concrete in the middle of potentially lovely streets

    I'm in a beautiful Habsburg city in Ukraine, as I have mentioned. Chernovtsi. Yet despite the lovely architecture it is very hard to take a satisfying photo because every frame is laced with these big black cables everywhere, like the place is only half built and the wiring hasn't been finished

    We've already uglified Britain enough. We should now be beautifying. NO TRAMS - unless a city is so ugly it doesn't matter. So yeah Manc or Sheffield OK

    Pish and tish. As with many things, it all depends how you do it.

    This is Helsinki;



    https://twitter.com/createstreets/status/1413854365752991744
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,955
    Miklosvar said:

    Barclay: We are in trouble with our 40 new hospitals pledge
    PM: That is disappointing [looks at members of the Cabinet] … this isn’t good, any ideas
    Lucy Frazer: I have a plan and it is for a much bigger number
    PM: Go on
    LF: 100 chessboards
    PM: 100 are you sure?
    LF: in parks

    (from https://twitter.com/forwardnotback/status/1686745545182703617 )

    Such a good idea.
    Lucy will probably be Knighted.
    They should make her a baroness, like Barbara Castle.
    Nice one, mate.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,099
    Peck said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    My 2016 diesel is tax free :D
    The "You are now entering X Zone" signs have a psychological effect that's much more important than raising a bit of money from drivers of older diesel cars and encouraging owners of said cars to trade them in.
    My diesel is ULEZ compliant :)
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:
    Agreed.

    Greenpeace should disband and the money be put towards useful projects, like developing carbon capture systems.
    They're too busy performing meaningless stunts and grifting for cash with pointless polls on social media that simply serve as data harvesting excercises.
    Greenpeace are a front organisation. Don't take them at face value.

    I've met senior government environmental figures who say that whenever they go to international conferences they always expect Greenpeace to have better access to up-to-the-minute information than they do.
  • mickydroymickydroy Posts: 316

    HYUFD said:

    Peck said:

    "I’ve been trying to pin it down but there is something lacking in his approach and how it comes out on TV."

    He's softly spoken and he doesn't come across as strong. Many gumbies whichever of Britain's castes they belong to prefer a strong leader who they can imagine sorting everyone out, giving 'em what for, and doing things like travelling all the way to "Europe" and telling foreigners where to get off. That's one of the prime minister's problems.

    There's also the fact that many habitual Tory voters think they've voted Tory all their lives and they're f*cked if they'll continue if the guy the Tories give them as prime minister isn't white.

    50-50 Penny Mordaunt, Union Jack-face, Order of the Loud Voice and True Confidence, takes over before the election?

    Mordaunt is too Woke for most Tories
    Just remember the sword. What more can you want in a leader?
    I think this a good point, the party membership voted for the moron that is Liz Truss, basically because the alternative had brown skin
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    edited August 2023
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    According to the tramway museum in Crich, which I had the pleasure to visit yesterday:



    I think this hereby concludes our transport discussion.

    By the way the Derby dales continue to fascinate. It’s an area I’ve not visited for decades, and strikes me as an English version of la France profonde.

    Everything is at least a couple of decades behind here. The shop fronts, the decor, the cuisine (yesterday I had steak pie, peas and beans with gravy for lunch then “tapas” for dinner which was like some 1980s imagined idea of tapas). The dark wooded valleys and dark sandstone towns, all feeling a little bit “Auvergne”.

    The little Massif Central of England.

    I love the Derbyshire Dales; I feel like explored most of it on foot over the decades, and deeply associate with it.

    But I've never been to Crich tramway museum, oddly enough. Probably a case of it being both too near to visit, and there being other things that interested me more.
    More interesting than the Crich Tramway Museum??
    Crich Tramway Museum sounds like one of those gloriously eccentric places, which must be an absolute jewel, even though you have had no previous interest in tramways and have no idea where Crich is.
    I know what you mean. For 3-4 years I used to take my eldest kid on mad roadtrips out of London, picnic ready on the backseat kind of thing (with all necessary condiments!) and.... we'd just see what we found. We could end up looking at a celebrated church in Suffolk or a weird half-demolished stately home in Beds or (briefly) examining the tedious town centre of Guldford. The whole idea was to be spontaneous. One day we happened upon this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvedon_Hatch_Secret_Nuclear_Bunker

    No words can really capture the magnificent eccentricity of this place. It is simultaneously cringe yet compelling, naff yet amazing. It really was our big UK nuclear bunker - clearly run on an NHS style shoestring - where the PM would be spirited if it all Kicked Off. They have a terrible waxwork of Margaret Thatcher hiding under a dingy blanket in one room. That just about sums it up

    Go!
    I saw an infographic of a 1960s US bunker the other day. As with Threads and this place (and for all I know Oppenheimer), it gave the vibe that the threat of nuclear war was as quaint and outdated as bakelite telephones. I hope we can go on thinking that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,406
    Leon said:

    I hesitate to butt into the tram v cycling v tunderground maglev trolleybus debate - there is so much EXPERTISE - but I actually have an opinion on trams. And that opinion is NO. Trams = BAD

    Why? Coz they are so frigging ugly. They demand rails in the middle of the road and hideous loops of cables and wires overhead and tramstops of concrete in the middle of potentially lovely streets

    I'm in a beautiful Habsburg city in Ukraine, as I have mentioned. Chernovtsi. Yet despite the lovely architecture it is very hard to take a satisfying photo because every frame is laced with these big black cables everywhere, like the place is only half built and the wiring hasn't been finished

    We've already uglified Britain enough. We should now be beautifying. NO TRAMS - unless a city is so ugly it doesn't matter. So yeah Manc or Sheffield OK

    If you want to see a city centre clogged with overhead cables, go to Bangkok.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,104
    A
    Leon said:

    I hesitate to butt into the tram v cycling v tunderground maglev trolleybus debate - there is so much EXPERTISE - but I actually have an opinion on trams. And that opinion is NO. Trams = BAD

    Why? Coz they are so frigging ugly. They demand rails in the middle of the road and hideous loops of cables and wires overhead and tramstops of concrete in the middle of potentially lovely streets

    I'm in a beautiful Habsburg city in Ukraine, as I have mentioned. Chernovtsi. Yet despite the lovely architecture it is very hard to take a satisfying photo because every frame is laced with these big black cables everywhere, like the place is only half built and the wiring hasn't been finished

    We've already uglified Britain enough. We should now be beautifying. NO TRAMS - unless a city is so ugly it doesn't matter. So yeah Manc or Sheffield OK

    Given the ludicrous infrastructure costs, trams will be made extinct by EV buses. Yes, a little less efficient etc.

    But by the time that the planning enquiry for the trams has reached 7 years, the first set of EV buses will be being replaced with newer models.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,330

    I don't know if I'm 'woke' or not (because everyone seems to have their own definition...), but I thoroughly agree with this piccie.

    https://twitter.com/ScouseAtheist/status/1685936162043523073/photo/1

    ;)

    Kathy Burke is a deeply unpleasant individual.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,972
    Leon said:

    I hesitate to butt into the tram v cycling v tunderground maglev trolleybus debate - there is so much EXPERTISE - but I actually have an opinion on trams. And that opinion is NO. Trams = BAD

    Why? Coz they are so frigging ugly. They demand rails in the middle of the road and hideous loops of cables and wires overhead and tramstops of concrete in the middle of potentially lovely streets

    I'm in a beautiful Habsburg city in Ukraine, as I have mentioned. Chernovtsi. Yet despite the lovely architecture it is very hard to take a satisfying photo because every frame is laced with these big black cables everywhere, like the place is only half built and the wiring hasn't been finished

    We've already uglified Britain enough. We should now be beautifying. NO TRAMS - unless a city is so ugly it doesn't matter. So yeah Manc or Sheffield OK

    I can't agree with this. The mere sound of trams, the scrapy metal noises and rumbling, the little dinging bell: they transport me directly to Mitteleuropa. They lend Manchester city centre a certain continental chic. Even Croydon. It would be helpful if the destination on the front read something like "Krankenhaus hohendorf" rather than "Beckenham Junction" but you can't have everything.

    Cobbled roads have the same aural effect when cars roll over them at speed. Like you boarded Wizz Air from Luton and embarked on a weekend city break.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,686
    Mortimer said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    TOPPING said:

    Things I learned on PB while catching up with last night's thread: there is an anti-floating-bus-stop brigade.

    "Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing"

    With the crossing only being a yard wide, the pedestrians were all waiting to cross, so the cyclists were breaking the "should" rather than the "must".

    Generally works fine but definitely another challenge for the blind.
    I think BR accused me of not criticising cyclists who don't stop at zebra crossings - of course I do.

    Those kind of accusations are just projection from drivers trying to justify their own law-breaking, and a form of whataboutery given the thousands of pedestrians injured by drivers each year.

    This is obvious - a bike weighs 10kg. An SUV 2,500kg.
    Gentle tip, I get that you love cycling and are a real advocate for it but this is bordering on the fanatical and boring now.

    Actually puts me off.
    The active travel/sustainable travel car hating cycling fanatics/extremists are tedious in the extreme.

    The claim that people who don't cycle do not do so as they are scared of cars, or some such guff, is totally unfounded. Sure, there will be a few, but there are other reasons too.

    Most of us cyclists just enjoy our cycling. I cycle to work daily, I enjoy it. I do not see every cycle journey as a constant battle against motorists, pedestrians or dogs.

    I will jump red lights when I think it safe to do so as I will cycle on the pavement when safe to do so as a fair bit of it round by me is dual use.
    The problem is that the anti-cycling brigade just make stuff up to support their pre-existing prejudice.

    Dangerous driving is a huge deterrent. Particularly for women and children (hence the gender imbalance)

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906698/walking-and-cycling-statistics-england-2019.pdf
    Indeed. My step-daughter recently got a part-time job about a mile and a half away from our home, and, not being a driver, decided to cycle there. She's new to cycling and was too scared to ride on the busy road, so she used the pavement instead (there being no cycling infrastructure at all). Then she was shouted at for riding on the pavement, and then again a couple of weeks later, this time coming home in tears. Now she's packed in the job, partly because of the cycling issues, and is looking for something closer to home. She'll probably never cycle again now :disappointed:
    Cycling on the pavement can be fairly inconsiderate to other users of the pavement. Many pavements are simply not designed for cycling on, being too narrow or with too much street furniture. She should not have been shouted at, though.
    Yes, I wasn't terribly happy about her cycling on the pavement, although it is quite wide for most of the way and not that crowded. But I could well understand her fear of the road traffic and reluctantly condoned her pavement riding, so long as she was considerate to pedestrians. The point of the post was more with to do with the lack of cycling infrastructure for those who fear cycling on the road and the resulting curtailment of their freedom.
    Was there no training your daughter could have taken? When to use or leave cycle paths; the importance of taking primary position; when pedestrians have priority?
    Part of my concern over 'cycling infrastructure' is that it actually prevents cyclists from learning the proper rules of the road. Including obeying traffic signals. Part of a trend of 'safetyism' that actually infantilises the population and makes them less resilient.
    Sure, there will always be a need to cycle on roads and cyclists need to know how to do that properly (maybe a short form adult verson of the cycling proficiency badges we did at school?). But, some of that comes from practice and confidence, signalling and moving confidently - making the driver understand by signal and positioning that you are coming out (and even then, you get the odd arse who just must overtake as you're moving out). Getting people cycling is easier if there are 'safe' routes where they can get confident on the bike before being thrown into traffic.

    Also, on many roads cyclists not on delineated cycle tracks are a problem for traffic. Getting past them can be tricky to do safely and again you get the odd arse (I've been overtaken on blind bends, while in a car and following a cyclist, waiting for the visibility to overtake). For the most part (certainly anything relatively busy and over 30mph limit) cyclists off of roads or in proper cycle lanes on roads, with space for car overtaking, is better for everyone. There are of course the 60mph country roads and the hardcore road cyclists and that's fine, but this is about your casual errand runner/commuter.

    On lights, mentioned upthread - I never run a red when on the road on a bike. I'm on the road, the rules apply to me just as if I'm driving. I also rarely under/overtake stationary traffic waiting at lights - those same cars will just have to overtake me again so it's a bit pointless and a pain for them (exception being where the queue is long enough that overtaking will get me through the next green light, while staying put will not - then I'm overtaking cars that may well not have to overtake me again and it makes sense).
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    I hear layla moran can be a bit punchy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,749
    edited August 2023

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    The LDs have more chance of winning in the Home Counties than London outside of the Surrey borders.

    Inner London won't vote LD because of its role in austerity when in the Coalition, much of Outer London won't vote LD because it was so anti Brexit
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,104
    a
    Mortimer said:

    Taz said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    Wealth tax on the 1% ?
    People always want their pet projects funded by other people.
    The simpler plan is to come up with a payment standard to add to the charging standards. The actual charging standards are pretty good in the UK.

    The other thing is subsidies for EV charging points as a function of working and being available 99% of the time.

    If they want the money, make them work.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,123

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,330
    Mortimer said:

    Taz said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    Wealth tax on the 1% ?
    People always want their pet projects funded by other people.
    Of course. It was a key demand of the "Green New Deal Rising" brigade who are aligned with labour that the wealth tax on the 1% funds their pet projects.

    However is that any different to Jeremy Hunt demanding Pension funds "invest in Britain" by committing 5% of their DC pots to invest in, largely, illiquid investments to "turbo charge" investment.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,749
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Greenpeace protestors climb the roof of Sunak's North Yorkshire home

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-66391947

    Interesting that - neither him nor the family there, but isn't there a police guard anyway? Or does that just follow him/family around? It seems like the kind of thing that shouldn't be possible for security issues - if greenpeace can get up there with a banner, it would be possible for someone to hide with a weapon to to leave some kind of explosive device, you'd think.
    Officers were at the scene, presumably as it is a private not public residence though the main police guards are at No 10 and Chequers
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,972
    edited August 2023
    Mortimer said:

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
    I agree, it's not going to happen. The only hope would be a celebrity not previously associated with the party. Not Brian Paddick, a proper celeb. Hugh Grant, say. Our closest equivalent to Zelensky having already played the part of political leader in a comedy. Twice, including once as a Liberal albeit a dog murdering one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,749

    HYUFD said:

    Peck said:

    "I’ve been trying to pin it down but there is something lacking in his approach and how it comes out on TV."

    He's softly spoken and he doesn't come across as strong. Many gumbies whichever of Britain's castes they belong to prefer a strong leader who they can imagine sorting everyone out, giving 'em what for, and doing things like travelling all the way to "Europe" and telling foreigners where to get off. That's one of the prime minister's problems.

    There's also the fact that many habitual Tory voters think they've voted Tory all their lives and they're f*cked if they'll continue if the guy the Tories give them as prime minister isn't white.

    50-50 Penny Mordaunt, Union Jack-face, Order of the Loud Voice and True Confidence, takes over before the election?

    Mordaunt is too Woke for most Tories
    That's a problem for the Tories.

    And what do you mean by "Woke" ?
    Her views on Trans are certainly too liberal for most Tory MPs and Tory members
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,749
    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
    I agree, it's not going to happen. The only hope would be a celebrity not previously associated with the party. Not Brian Paddick, a proper celeb. Hugh Grant, say. Our closest equivalent to Zelensky having already played the part of political leader in a comedy.
    Lord Sugar could have won it as an Independent next year, plus he hates Khan.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,406

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    TOPPING said:

    Things I learned on PB while catching up with last night's thread: there is an anti-floating-bus-stop brigade.

    "Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing"

    With the crossing only being a yard wide, the pedestrians were all waiting to cross, so the cyclists were breaking the "should" rather than the "must".

    Generally works fine but definitely another challenge for the blind.
    I think BR accused me of not criticising cyclists who don't stop at zebra crossings - of course I do.

    Those kind of accusations are just projection from drivers trying to justify their own law-breaking, and a form of whataboutery given the thousands of pedestrians injured by drivers each year.

    This is obvious - a bike weighs 10kg. An SUV 2,500kg.
    Gentle tip, I get that you love cycling and are a real advocate for it but this is bordering on the fanatical and boring now.

    Actually puts me off.
    The active travel/sustainable travel car hating cycling fanatics/extremists are tedious in the extreme.

    The claim that people who don't cycle do not do so as they are scared of cars, or some such guff, is totally unfounded. Sure, there will be a few, but there are other reasons too.

    Most of us cyclists just enjoy our cycling. I cycle to work daily, I enjoy it. I do not see every cycle journey as a constant battle against motorists, pedestrians or dogs.

    I will jump red lights when I think it safe to do so as I will cycle on the pavement when safe to do so as a fair bit of it round by me is dual use.
    The problem is that the anti-cycling brigade just make stuff up to support their pre-existing prejudice.

    Dangerous driving is a huge deterrent. Particularly for women and children (hence the gender imbalance)

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906698/walking-and-cycling-statistics-england-2019.pdf
    Indeed. My step-daughter recently got a part-time job about a mile and a half away from our home, and, not being a driver, decided to cycle there. She's new to cycling and was too scared to ride on the busy road, so she used the pavement instead (there being no cycling infrastructure at all). Then she was shouted at for riding on the pavement, and then again a couple of weeks later, this time coming home in tears. Now she's packed in the job, partly because of the cycling issues, and is looking for something closer to home. She'll probably never cycle again now :disappointed:
    Cycling on the pavement can be fairly inconsiderate to other users of the pavement. Many pavements are simply not designed for cycling on, being too narrow or with too much street furniture. She should not have been shouted at, though.
    Yes, I wasn't terribly happy about her cycling on the pavement, although it is quite wide for most of the way and not that crowded. But I could well understand her fear of the road traffic and reluctantly condoned her pavement riding, so long as she was considerate to pedestrians. The point of the post was more with to do with the lack of cycling infrastructure for those who fear cycling on the road and the resulting curtailment of their freedom.
    Was there no training your daughter could have taken? When to use or leave cycle paths; the importance of taking primary position; when pedestrians have priority?
    Not daughter, step-daughter, and that's not the point. The point is that there are no cycle paths that she could use, and no amount of training is going to stop her being fearful of riding along a busy road with heavy traffic thundering by next to her. Hell, it scares me sometimes.
    I used to cycle to the gym, part of the route being along a narrow-ish country road which was also used by heavy lorries going to a couple of small industrial estates.
    It worried my wife so much that I gave up cycling that route and went to the gym by car.
    And before you ask, there wasn’t a safer route to run along, either!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Taz said:

    Mortimer said:

    Taz said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    Wealth tax on the 1% ?
    People always want their pet projects funded by other people.
    Of course. It was a key demand of the "Green New Deal Rising" brigade who are aligned with labour that the wealth tax on the 1% funds their pet projects.

    However is that any different to Jeremy Hunt demanding Pension funds "invest in Britain" by committing 5% of their DC pots to invest in, largely, illiquid investments to "turbo charge" investment.

    I would like the money in my pension to be invested where it makes maximum return personally, not where governement insists it be invested. It is not like it is growing enough currently to afford me a decent retirement as it is. I have little faith that what governements of any colour insist that 5% is invested in will actually grow my pot and would not be at all suprised if the net effect was to diminish my pot by 5%
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    I hesitate to butt into the tram v cycling v tunderground maglev trolleybus debate - there is so much EXPERTISE - but I actually have an opinion on trams. And that opinion is NO. Trams = BAD

    Why? Coz they are so frigging ugly. They demand rails in the middle of the road and hideous loops of cables and wires overhead and tramstops of concrete in the middle of potentially lovely streets

    I'm in a beautiful Habsburg city in Ukraine, as I have mentioned. Chernovtsi. Yet despite the lovely architecture it is very hard to take a satisfying photo because every frame is laced with these big black cables everywhere, like the place is only half built and the wiring hasn't been finished

    We've already uglified Britain enough. We should now be beautifying. NO TRAMS - unless a city is so ugly it doesn't matter. So yeah Manc or Sheffield OK

    I can't agree with this. The mere sound of trams, the scrapy metal noises and rumbling, the little dinging bell: they transport me directly to Mitteleuropa. They lend Manchester city centre a certain continental chic. Even Croydon. It would be helpful if the destination on the front read something like "Krankenhaus hohendorf" rather than "Beckenham Junction" but you can't have everything.

    Cobbled roads have the same aural effect when cars roll over them at speed. Like you boarded Wizz Air from Luton and embarked on a weekend city break.
    I did say they SHOULD be allowed in ugly British cities and towns. So that's about 60% of them, sadly

    But Winchester, Oxford, York, Edinburgh, most of London, etc: NO
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,806
    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Greenpeace protestors climb the roof of Sunak's North Yorkshire home

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-66391947

    Interesting that - neither him nor the family there, but isn't there a police guard anyway? Or does that just follow him/family around? It seems like the kind of thing that shouldn't be possible for security issues - if greenpeace can get up there with a banner, it would be possible for someone to hide with a weapon to to leave some kind of explosive device, you'd think.
    We really should post Mordaunt on guard.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,406
    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
    I agree, it's not going to happen. The only hope would be a celebrity not previously associated with the party. Not Brian Paddick, a proper celeb. Hugh Grant, say. Our closest equivalent to Zelensky having already played the part of political leader in a comedy. Twice, including once as a Liberal albeit a dog murdering one.
    Jeremy Thorpe never murdered any dogs. It was the chap who was acting on his behalf.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,330

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    I'd increase taxation on polluting petrol and diesel cars.
    Ha. Thats a recipe for a Tory lead. Cheers!
    I'm sure it's coming any day now. 20 points at last count, you'll be in government again by Christmas
    Not sure if you noticed, but Labour aren't in govt....
    You'll be re-elected by Christmas then
    Have you noticed how unpopular the left-wing German government has become just 22 months into office?

    People don't like being taxed or regulated into changing their behaviour by the State.

    If you use a stick don't be surprised if people don't want to vote for more of it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,527
    Peck said:

    Magnus Carlsen plays in the park:

    https://tv.vg.no/video/73842/se-carlsen-knuse-new-yorks-34-chess-hustlers-34

    I think there's another video where he plays in Central Park in New York, against these guys, some of them homeless, who could beat almost anybody in the world at 1-minute chess but Carlsen wins a few games and fast. Someone asks them afterwards whether they knew who they were playing, and that it was Magnus Carlsen, and they go "Yeah, we knew it was someone strong. Doesn't surprise me that it was him." There seems to be a culture there of respect for good play, doesn't matter who you are, homeless or whatever. No posing, no holding your expensive skis up to the camera, all that kinda crap.

    There’s hundreds of videos out there of New York park chess, it’s brilliant! There’s everyone from the homeless, to casual players, to masters and GMs, to Magnus blooming Carlsen, all with the love of the game in common and a great equaliser.

    Magnus himself is a great advert for the game, he spends loads of time playing in parks and online against anyone who shows up, often several at a time, and doesn’t care if people stream their games with him. His win rate is astonishing though, very few can say they’ve beaten him, even at 1m blitz games.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
    I agree, it's not going to happen. The only hope would be a celebrity not previously associated with the party. Not Brian Paddick, a proper celeb. Hugh Grant, say. Our closest equivalent to Zelensky having already played the part of political leader in a comedy. Twice, including once as a Liberal albeit a dog murdering one.
    Jeremy Thorpe never murdered any dogs. It was the chap who was acting on his behalf.
    Conspiracy/accessory charges are available.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,686

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Greenpeace protestors climb the roof of Sunak's North Yorkshire home

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-66391947

    Interesting that - neither him nor the family there, but isn't there a police guard anyway? Or does that just follow him/family around? It seems like the kind of thing that shouldn't be possible for security issues - if greenpeace can get up there with a banner, it would be possible for someone to hide with a weapon to to leave some kind of explosive device, you'd think.
    We really should post Mordaunt on guard.
    Hmm, conflicted loyalties for her, though? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,330

    HYUFD said:

    Peck said:

    "I’ve been trying to pin it down but there is something lacking in his approach and how it comes out on TV."

    He's softly spoken and he doesn't come across as strong. Many gumbies whichever of Britain's castes they belong to prefer a strong leader who they can imagine sorting everyone out, giving 'em what for, and doing things like travelling all the way to "Europe" and telling foreigners where to get off. That's one of the prime minister's problems.

    There's also the fact that many habitual Tory voters think they've voted Tory all their lives and they're f*cked if they'll continue if the guy the Tories give them as prime minister isn't white.

    50-50 Penny Mordaunt, Union Jack-face, Order of the Loud Voice and True Confidence, takes over before the election?

    Mordaunt is too Woke for most Tories
    That's a problem for the Tories.

    And what do you mean by "Woke" ?
    What do you mean by "Woke" is something only Woke people ask, who then either pretend that they don't understand the answer or get on their high-horse and say the person answering it is malignant.

    It's thus a complete waste of time engaging with them.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280

    a

    Mortimer said:

    Taz said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    We need a publicly-owned national EV charging network.

    Why? We don't have publicly owned filling stations.

    Remember how often your gut reaction calls ('Lockdown, now') are wrong?
    The private sector has manifestly failed to deliver enough EV charging capability, the public sector needs to step in.

    I actually think my calls are quite good, I called a 20 point lead when people were asking for Starmer to resign, I said he'd be innocent of beergate, I said Sunak wouldn't over-turn the rot.

    I think you don't like my calls - which is fair enough but it doesn't mean they're wrong. Shall we have a look at your record?
    What are you going to cut to fund the massive infrastructure spend?
    Wealth tax on the 1% ?
    People always want their pet projects funded by other people.
    The simpler plan is to come up with a payment standard to add to the charging standards. The actual charging standards are pretty good in the UK.

    The other thing is subsidies for EV charging points as a function of working and being available 99% of the time.

    If they want the money, make them work.
    Decide a model that will work and run with it.

    If there is a nationalised element to it, e.g. in areas the commercial providers don't seem interested in, or through public lampposts etc. be clear where the task is to stand things up and where is a longer term. Build it yourself with an eye to selling off in future is a perfectly honourable model for a government wishing to push things forward.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,806
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Greenpeace protestors climb the roof of Sunak's North Yorkshire home

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-66391947

    Interesting that - neither him nor the family there, but isn't there a police guard anyway? Or does that just follow him/family around? It seems like the kind of thing that shouldn't be possible for security issues - if greenpeace can get up there with a banner, it would be possible for someone to hide with a weapon to to leave some kind of explosive device, you'd think.
    We really should post Mordaunt on guard.
    Hmm, conflicted loyalties for her, though? Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
    All that foreign lingo seems very woke to me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,330
    We need to stop asking about what more we are going to tax and starting asking about how we are going to expand the tax base.

    Mass immigration is a lazy, and self-defeating, answer.

    I'd like to hear far more about entrepreneurship and encouraging people to start and grow their own businesses, and climb the career ladder.

    Let's have more British success stories please.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,160
    NEW THREAD
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,580
    edited August 2023

    A

    Leon said:

    I hesitate to butt into the tram v cycling v tunderground maglev trolleybus debate - there is so much EXPERTISE - but I actually have an opinion on trams. And that opinion is NO. Trams = BAD

    Why? Coz they are so frigging ugly. They demand rails in the middle of the road and hideous loops of cables and wires overhead and tramstops of concrete in the middle of potentially lovely streets

    I'm in a beautiful Habsburg city in Ukraine, as I have mentioned. Chernovtsi. Yet despite the lovely architecture it is very hard to take a satisfying photo because every frame is laced with these big black cables everywhere, like the place is only half built and the wiring hasn't been finished

    We've already uglified Britain enough. We should now be beautifying. NO TRAMS - unless a city is so ugly it doesn't matter. So yeah Manc or Sheffield OK

    Given the ludicrous infrastructure costs, trams will be made extinct by EV buses. Yes, a little less efficient etc.

    But by the time that the planning enquiry for the trams has reached 7 years, the first set of EV buses will be being replaced with newer models.
    There are other benefits to trams - very smooth, easy to get a bike/wheelchair/pram onto, they stop for about 30 seconds even when very busy, much bigger capacity, don't get held up by car traffic as on different signals and have designated lanes at junctions.

    The extension to Newhaven has been a huge success here. Standing room only. >200 people every 7 minutes. Need to get them down to Gorgie, RIE, Portobello ASAP.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,143
    Miklosvar said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    According to the tramway museum in Crich, which I had the pleasure to visit yesterday:



    I think this hereby concludes our transport discussion.

    By the way the Derby dales continue to fascinate. It’s an area I’ve not visited for decades, and strikes me as an English version of la France profonde.

    Everything is at least a couple of decades behind here. The shop fronts, the decor, the cuisine (yesterday I had steak pie, peas and beans with gravy for lunch then “tapas” for dinner which was like some 1980s imagined idea of tapas). The dark wooded valleys and dark sandstone towns, all feeling a little bit “Auvergne”.

    The little Massif Central of England.

    I love the Derbyshire Dales; I feel like explored most of it on foot over the decades, and deeply associate with it.

    But I've never been to Crich tramway museum, oddly enough. Probably a case of it being both too near to visit, and there being other things that interested me more.
    More interesting than the Crich Tramway Museum??
    Crich Tramway Museum sounds like one of those gloriously eccentric places, which must be an absolute jewel, even though you have had no previous interest in tramways and have no idea where Crich is.
    I know what you mean. For 3-4 years I used to take my eldest kid on mad roadtrips out of London, picnic ready on the backseat kind of thing (with all necessary condiments!) and.... we'd just see what we found. We could end up looking at a celebrated church in Suffolk or a weird half-demolished stately home in Beds or (briefly) examining the tedious town centre of Guldford. The whole idea was to be spontaneous. One day we happened upon this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvedon_Hatch_Secret_Nuclear_Bunker

    No words can really capture the magnificent eccentricity of this place. It is simultaneously cringe yet compelling, naff yet amazing. It really was our big UK nuclear bunker - clearly run on an NHS style shoestring - where the PM would be spirited if it all Kicked Off. They have a terrible waxwork of Margaret Thatcher hiding under a dingy blanket in one room. That just about sums it up

    Go!
    I saw an infographic of a 1960s US bunker the other day. As with Threads and this place (and for all I know Oppenheimer), it gave the vibe that the threat of nuclear war was as quaint and outdated as bakelite telephones. I hope we can go on thinking that.
    One of the most terrifying things I have done these last few years is visit this place in Arizona

    https://titanmissilemuseum.org/

    I mentioned it at the time on PB. It is - I think - the only place in the world you can see a big-ass city-busting ICBM in its actual silo. Ready to go. You can also visit the green room (green for soothing) where the missile controllers would flick the switch. The woman guide talks you through the process, and the exact moment when the command from the president would become legally then practically irreversible

    Once the telephone calls were received from the presudent, and the codes verified, launch would then officially begin and could not legally be reversed. in practise another few minutes would pass and then the keys would be turned and communication stopped and from then on the missiles were gonna fire whatever. From codes to launch would be 5-10 excruciating yet inexorable minutes

    It was accepted that these minutes would be psychological torture for the operators - the urge NOT to go through the process of destroying the world would be intense - so they were carefully selected for intelligence, mental healthy, loyalty, coolness

    My whole visit was rendered near-intolerable coz by the fact it was was at the height of Putin's Ukraine nuke scare and everyone in the guided group was hyper aware of this. Yet the guide had her set spiel and she said "now we have nuclear peace treaties and this can never happen, thank God" and everyone laughed, bitterly and nervously


  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,927

    Barclay: We are in trouble with our 40 new hospitals pledge
    PM: That is disappointing [looks at members of the Cabinet] … this isn’t good, any ideas
    Lucy Frazer: I have a plan and it is for a much bigger number
    PM: Go on
    LF: 100 chessboards
    PM: 100 are you sure?
    LF: in parks

    (from https://twitter.com/forwardnotback/status/1686745545182703617 )

    Such a good idea.
    Lucy will probably be Knighted.
    Now the family silver has been pawned all is left is for the the electorate to be pwnd.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,330

    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
    I agree, it's not going to happen. The only hope would be a celebrity not previously associated with the party. Not Brian Paddick, a proper celeb. Hugh Grant, say. Our closest equivalent to Zelensky having already played the part of political leader in a comedy. Twice, including once as a Liberal albeit a dog murdering one.
    Jeremy Thorpe never murdered any dogs. It was the chap who was acting on his behalf.
    RIP Rinka
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,406
    Miklosvar said:

    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
    I agree, it's not going to happen. The only hope would be a celebrity not previously associated with the party. Not Brian Paddick, a proper celeb. Hugh Grant, say. Our closest equivalent to Zelensky having already played the part of political leader in a comedy. Twice, including once as a Liberal albeit a dog murdering one.
    Jeremy Thorpe never murdered any dogs. It was the chap who was acting on his behalf.
    Conspiracy/accessory charges are available.
    At the conclusion of the trial one of my junior staff came back into work to report that “They’ve let Jeremy Thorpe off”.
    Which seemed an accurate resume!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,999
    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
    I agree, it's not going to happen. The only hope would be a celebrity not previously associated with the party. Not Brian Paddick, a proper celeb. Hugh Grant, say. Our closest equivalent to Zelensky having already played the part of political leader in a comedy. Twice, including once as a Liberal albeit a dog murdering one.
    The party wanted Floella Benjamin to run.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,373
    Peck said:

    "I’ve been trying to pin it down but there is something lacking in his approach and how it comes out on TV."

    He's softly spoken and he doesn't come across as strong. Many gumbies whichever of Britain's castes they belong to prefer a strong leader who they can imagine sorting everyone out, giving 'em what for, and doing things like travelling all the way to "Europe" and telling foreigners where to get off. That's one of the prime minister's problems.

    There's also the fact that many habitual Tory voters think they've voted Tory all their lives and they're f*cked if they'll continue if the guy the Tories give them as prime minister isn't white.

    50-50 Penny Mordaunt, Union Jack-face, Order of the Loud Voice and True Confidence, takes over before the election?

    Fatuous codswallop, based on a complete failure on your part to understand the motivations of those you disagree with. The Tory membership would have liked Kemi Badenoch, who (if you haven't noticed) is less white than Sunak.

    As a Tory supporter and sometime voter, I don't particularly want the leader to be rude, and give us 'Up yours Delors' moments - that was what Cameron and Osborne tried to do 'I won't pay this bill', 'I won't have Juncker' before inevitably caving. What I do want is a quiet determination to defend the national interest, which Rishi has patently failed to do in his negotiations on the Windsor Framework. He can be as softly spoken as he likes, as long as what he's saying is OK.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,999
    No. But hopefully it will help treat many cancers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,748
    edited August 2023
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    I really don’t like Sadiq Khan.
    My contempt for him has merely grown over the years.

    He is an awful bed-blocker, with no good ideas.
    The Maaaate campaign is an absurd and grotesque waste of money.

    If only the LDs could attract someone punchy and high-profile.

    Me neither.

    But the LDs are never going to win in London IMO.
    I agree, it's not going to happen. The only hope would be a celebrity not previously associated with the party. Not Brian Paddick, a proper celeb. Hugh Grant, say. Our closest equivalent to Zelensky having already played the part of political leader in a comedy. Twice, including once as a Liberal albeit a dog murdering one.
    Jeremy Thorpe never murdered any dogs. It was the chap who was acting on his behalf.
    RIP Rinka
    Memories of Bron Waugh's Dog-lovers' Party.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,022
    Miklosvar said:

    I don't know if I'm 'woke' or not (because everyone seems to have their own definition...), but I thoroughly agree with this piccie.

    https://twitter.com/ScouseAtheist/status/1685936162043523073/photo/1

    ;)

    Shit, was that worth 5 seconds of all our lives being sent off to X?

    To save anyone else's time It says "I love being 'woke', it's much nicer than being an ignorant fucking twat," with a picture of Stephen Fry after transitioning....
    I have to ask. Did you genuinely think that that picture was a picture of Stephen Fry after transitioning? Or did you know that it's actually a picture of the actress Kathy Burke (who was also the author of the tweet)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,104

    Peck said:

    "I’ve been trying to pin it down but there is something lacking in his approach and how it comes out on TV."

    He's softly spoken and he doesn't come across as strong. Many gumbies whichever of Britain's castes they belong to prefer a strong leader who they can imagine sorting everyone out, giving 'em what for, and doing things like travelling all the way to "Europe" and telling foreigners where to get off. That's one of the prime minister's problems.

    There's also the fact that many habitual Tory voters think they've voted Tory all their lives and they're f*cked if they'll continue if the guy the Tories give them as prime minister isn't white.

    50-50 Penny Mordaunt, Union Jack-face, Order of the Loud Voice and True Confidence, takes over before the election?

    Fatuous codswallop, based on a complete failure on your part to understand the motivations of those you disagree with. The Tory membership would have liked Kemi Badenoch, who (if you haven't noticed) is less white than Sunak.

    As a Tory supporter and sometime voter, I don't particularly want the leader to be rude, and give us 'Up yours Delors' moments - that was what Cameron and Osborne tried to do 'I won't pay this bill', 'I won't have Juncker' before inevitably caving. What I do want is a quiet determination to defend the national interest, which Rishi has patently failed to do in his negotiations on the Windsor Framework. He can be as softly spoken as he likes, as long as what he's saying is OK.
    The trick is to not give things away in advance.

    "We are not going to discuss the CAP after all? That really is a shame. Especially since the ending of the British Rebate is automatically tied to a successful deal. I'm sorry, but my hands are tied. Port?"
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,022
    Nigelb said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Barclay: We are in trouble with our 40 new hospitals pledge
    PM: That is disappointing [looks at members of the Cabinet] … this isn’t good, any ideas
    Lucy Frazer: I have a plan and it is for a much bigger number
    PM: Go on
    LF: 100 chessboards
    PM: 100 are you sure?
    LF: in parks

    (from https://twitter.com/forwardnotback/status/1686745545182703617 )

    Such a good idea.
    Lucy will probably be Knighted.
    They should make her a baroness, like Barbara Castle.
    Nice one, mate.
    I thought it was a bit stale, mate
This discussion has been closed.