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Is Rishi Sunak set to be hoist with his own petard? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    It looks like @HYUFD inhabits Planet Reality


    “Since 1946, five major exams that quantify intelligence (including ACT, SAT, and GRE) have shown a steady pattern in which students who choose majors in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics are generally more intelligent.”

    https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/your-college-major-indicates-your-intelligence/
    @Leon, the thinking man's @HYUFD.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    It looks like @HYUFD inhabits Planet Reality


    “Since 1946, five major exams that quantify intelligence (including ACT, SAT, and GRE) have shown a steady pattern in which students who choose majors in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics are generally more intelligent.”

    https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/your-college-major-indicates-your-intelligence/
    On the other hand, do any of those measure IQ? He was talking about IQ.
    SATs are very definitely based on classic IQ tests. It’s one reason they are newly controversial in the USA
    SATs in this country do not measure IQ. They are designed to measure attainment in English and maths. The way they are set they couldn't possibly measure IQ.*

    You are I know talking about America, but I just wanted to avoid any confusion.

    *They don't actually measure anything to be truthful but they are part of the gravy train so carry on regardless.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
    Intelligence is no measure of being wise. It merely means you are able to deploy more sophisticated arguments.

    A lot of very intelligent people in Sweden advocated eugenics in the 1930s on the basis it was 'progressive', as well.

    Think. You must always think.
    So did Aldous and Julian Huxley, neither of whom was exactly stupid - or Swedish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    And how many arts (and classics) graduates working as journalists are banging on about the menace of wokeness.
    I think HYUFD's analysis would regard an Oxford Greats second class degree as quite different from a First in PPE at, say, Manchester.
    Having a good degree in classics would suggest you have a well above average score on the verbal element of IQ certainly, it would depend how much logic and maths was in the PPE course as to what your IQ would likely then be
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,759
    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    Interesting mystery. But maybe they are wondering the same about a Cornish flint knapper?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    Was at a lunch with some Ukrainian refugees yesterday in attendance, all spoke near perfect English, very well turned out and most already have paid jobs here too
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
    Intelligence is no measure of being wise. It merely means you are able to deploy more sophisticated arguments.

    A lot of very intelligent people in Sweden advocated eugenics in the 1930s on the basis it was 'progressive', as well.

    Think. You must always think.
    Shite as it was, even "Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones" (2002) touched on this:


    Dexter: Huh! I should think that you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and... heh heh heh... wisdom.
    Obi-Wan : Well if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    Interesting mystery. But maybe they are wondering the same about a Cornish flint knapper?
    I am definitely the subject of staff speculation. The lone Englishman who uses his phone and laptop A LOT
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
    Nor does it necessarily lead to great leadership and management skills. The highest IQ PM this century was probably Gordon Brown whose premiership was hardly a resounding success
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,341
    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Tipping down with rain in da North Ilford Ghetto!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Yes. Unthinking backing of the fashionable/socially acceptable cause is simply dangerous.

    Hence my anger at people whom object to asking questions like “Why was slavery wrong?”…

    See the anecdotes of former Reichbanner members being recognised by the people they were beating up, while in the SA.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Absolutely right. They are too dim to realise the tables can be turned - then suddenly everything THEY believe will be punished as wrongthink and deemed “haram” by the Woke 2.0 - and they won’t be allowed to argue their case, just as they’re refusing to allow dissenting opinions while they are in charge

    It’s the end of the Enlightenment, in essence

    And Andrew Tate is a good example of the mad shit that can suddenly arise when you rule out reasonable debate. The unreasonable will rush to fill the void
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    3.4 England 6.4 the draw 1.8 Australia
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Sure. And the causes of the Lancashire Cotton Famine remain a modern woke invention. Noting to do with reliance on Confederate cotton. Nothing. The definition of woke I think you’re struggling for is “anything that doesn’t fit my comfortable world-view”.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Miklosvar said:

    3.4 England 6.4 the draw 1.8 Australia

    Are those the actual odds?

    They are mad if so. Australia have done really well but they still have to get a huge total, one of the biggest run chases in the history of the sport

    A couple of sudden wickets and it could all look very different

    I’d have England as favourites still - but Oz definitely getting uncomfortably closer
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Absolutely right. They are too dim to realise the tables can be turned - then suddenly everything THEY believe will be punished as wrongthink and deemed “haram” by the Woke 2.0 - and they won’t be allowed to argue their case, just as they’re refusing to allow dissenting opinions while they are in charge

    It’s the end of the Enlightenment, in essence

    And Andrew Tate is a good example of the mad shit that can suddenly arise when you rule out reasonable debate. The unreasonable will rush to fill the void
    Look at all of the people who said “They’re a private company, they can do what they want”, as anyone slightly right of Joe Biden got banned from Twitter.

    Then there was a change of management, and the same people all said that a private company shouldn’t be able to do what the want, and that ‘problematic’ people shouldnt have ‘a platform’.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,526
    Yesterday I went up to south Derbyshire to drop something off to my family. My watch demanded I do a fast run, so I decided to run into Nottingham from the nearest park and ride - there's a good path alongside most of the new line, and it was just under ten km.

    Once in Nottingham, I had to slow down as the city was packed with people, many dressed very colourfully. It happened to be Nottingham Pride, and I spent an hour chatting to various strangers on the street, despite being somewhat sweaty after my run and not exactly dressed for the festivities.

    Everyone seemed happy, and there was a great atmosphere.

    If that was woke, then we need more of it. :)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    Why is s/he a *former* political strategist?

    Lost an election after making erroneous predictions?

    :smile:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Absolutely right. They are too dim to realise the tables can be turned - then suddenly everything THEY believe will be punished as wrongthink and deemed “haram” by the Woke 2.0 - and they won’t be allowed to argue their case, just as they’re refusing to allow dissenting opinions while they are in charge

    It’s the end of the Enlightenment, in essence

    And Andrew Tate is a good example of the mad shit that can suddenly arise when you rule out reasonable debate. The unreasonable will rush to fill the void
    Look at all of the people who said “They’re a private company, they can do what they want”, as anyone slightly right of Joe Biden got banned from Twitter.

    Then there was a change of management, and the same people all said that a private company shouldn’t be able to do what the want, and that ‘problematic’ people shouldnt have ‘a platform’.
    One amusing feature of the Elon comedy is the adoption of MAGA talking points regarding Elon and his companies. Often word for word.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,526
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Absolutely right. They are too dim to realise the tables can be turned - then suddenly everything THEY believe will be punished as wrongthink and deemed “haram” by the Woke 2.0 - and they won’t be allowed to argue their case, just as they’re refusing to allow dissenting opinions while they are in charge

    It’s the end of the Enlightenment, in essence

    And Andrew Tate is a good example of the mad shit that can suddenly arise when you rule out reasonable debate. The unreasonable will rush to fill the void
    Look at all of the people who said “They’re a private company, they can do what they want”, as anyone slightly right of Joe Biden got banned from Twitter.

    Then there was a change of management, and the same people all said that a private company shouldn’t be able to do what the want, and that ‘problematic’ people shouldnt have ‘a platform’.
    "... as anyone slightly right of Joe Biden got banned from Twitter."

    That's bullshit. :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich




    At night it is crazy
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    We need Jackson Lamb to join the cast.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Sure. And the causes of the Lancashire Cotton Famine remain a modern woke invention. Noting to do with reliance on Confederate cotton. Nothing. The definition of woke I think you’re struggling for is “anything that doesn’t fit my comfortable world-view”.
    “anything that doesn’t fit my comfortable world-view”.

    That fits

    - Woke
    - anti woke
    - Anti anti woke
    - Anti anti anti woke

    Generally, people are very comfortable with their own worldview. And very often believe that the possess the Actual Truth.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Not to worry, TSE. It's not your fault you went to Cambridge.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    ydoethur said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
    Add one letter, and Max Verstrappen would be a killer brand for a dominatrix.

    Max and Strappen (= to strap) speak for themselves.

    Ver is a German prefix meaning "some kind of extreme or excess of the root verb".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    If only I could write novels. I’d turn this hotel into a novel. I believe there are precedents
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,805
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    You may like this thread.
    It would make a good provocative Spectator or Telegraph piece

    ARE WOKE PEOPLE JUST STUPID?

    That would get the clicks. And it’s not unknown for these vultures to steal ideas from us
    Paradoxically it is the right that has launched anti-woke culture wars. Trump, DeSantis, Braverman and Farage are not engaged in any high-minded battle of ideas. When was the last time a Conservative or Republican front-runner made an intellectual defence of liberty or the free market?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    edited July 2023

    Yesterday I went up to south Derbyshire to drop something off to my family. My watch demanded I do a fast run, so I decided to run into Nottingham from the nearest park and ride - there's a good path alongside most of the new line, and it was just under ten km.

    Once in Nottingham, I had to slow down as the city was packed with people, many dressed very colourfully. It happened to be Nottingham Pride, and I spent an hour chatting to various strangers on the street, despite being somewhat sweaty after my run and not exactly dressed for the festivities.

    Everyone seemed happy, and there was a great atmosphere.

    If that was woke, then we need more of it. :)

    Now you're saying your militant Lycra Lout was some form of Out and Proud Gimp?

    :wink:
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Leon said:

    If only I could write novels. I’d turn this hotel into a novel. I believe there are precedents

    Stand down Ashenden, Ambler, Greene, Herron....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    Leon said:

    If only I could write novels. I’d turn this hotel into a novel. I believe there are precedents

    Didn’t the late, iconic, DM Thomas, once write about an hotel?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Hotel
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Leon said:

    Miklosvar said:

    3.4 England 6.4 the draw 1.8 Australia

    Are those the actual odds?

    They are mad if so. Australia have done really well but they still have to get a huge total, one of the biggest run chases in the history of the sport

    A couple of sudden wickets and it could all look very different

    I’d have England as favourites still - but Oz definitely getting uncomfortably closer
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/cricket/inplay

    Yes

    Bloke on telly pointing out this morning and indeed @DavidL yesterday the old stats are a bit irrelevant, unusual in the past to have 2 whole days for 4th innings. And given there's no wicket yet we can compare the 249 now needed with previous records, and 249 would be 3rd highest successful run chase at oval
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,028

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
    Intelligence is no measure of being wise. It merely means you are able to deploy more sophisticated arguments.

    A lot of very intelligent people in Sweden advocated eugenics in the 1930s on the basis it was 'progressive', as well.

    Think. You must always think.
    Shite as it was, even "Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones" (2002) touched on this:


    Dexter: Huh! I should think that you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and... heh heh heh... wisdom.
    Obi-Wan : Well if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there?
    Given the debate in Star Wars fandom over whether droids are sentient and/or slaves, I'd be careful about bringing that up... :)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
    Intelligence is no measure of being wise. It merely means you are able to deploy more sophisticated arguments.

    A lot of very intelligent people in Sweden advocated eugenics in the 1930s on the basis it was 'progressive', as well.

    Think. You must always think.
    So did Aldous and Julian Huxley, neither of whom was exactly stupid - or Swedish.
    Very intelligent people are often also very stupid.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,805
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    And how many arts (and classics) graduates working as journalists are banging on about the menace of wokeness.
    I think HYUFD's analysis would regard an Oxford Greats second class degree as quite different from a First in PPE at, say, Manchester.
    Having a good degree in classics would suggest you have a well above average score on the verbal element of IQ certainly, it would depend how much logic and maths was in the PPE course as to what your IQ would likely then be
    Actually, I should need to be convinced of that particular case. I've seen it suggested that classics is often correlated with mathematics, suggesting dead languages can be mastered by those with a capacity for the patterns of declension and conjugation rather than the creativity of live, modern languages. BUT as I say, I've not seen evidence of that, just the suggestion.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,469
    Leon said:

    If only I could write novels. I’d turn this hotel into a novel. I believe there are precedents

    A novel about a whacky writer typing his thoughts out all day whilst drinking more and more until madness takes over? Seen the film.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,331

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Absolutely right. They are too dim to realise the tables can be turned - then suddenly everything THEY believe will be punished as wrongthink and deemed “haram” by the Woke 2.0 - and they won’t be allowed to argue their case, just as they’re refusing to allow dissenting opinions while they are in charge

    It’s the end of the Enlightenment, in essence

    And Andrew Tate is a good example of the mad shit that can suddenly arise when you rule out reasonable debate. The unreasonable will rush to fill the void
    Look at all of the people who said “They’re a private company, they can do what they want”, as anyone slightly right of Joe Biden got banned from Twitter.

    Then there was a change of management, and the same people all said that a private company shouldn’t be able to do what the want, and that ‘problematic’ people shouldnt have ‘a platform’.
    "... as anyone slightly right of Joe Biden got banned from Twitter."

    That's bullshit. :)
    True, they didn’t as long as they didn’t express the wrong opinion 👍
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    You may like this thread.
    It would make a good provocative Spectator or Telegraph piece

    ARE WOKE PEOPLE JUST STUPID?

    That would get the clicks. And it’s not unknown for these vultures to steal ideas from us
    Paradoxically it is the right that has launched anti-woke culture wars. Trump, DeSantis, Braverman and Farage are not engaged in any high-minded battle of ideas. When was the last time a Conservatives or Republican front-runner made an intellectual defence of liberty or the free market?
    Daniel Hannan? But he’s not a front runner now if
    he ever was. And he has said some dumb stuff recently

    It’s a fair point. It is depressing there aren’t more intellectual heavyweights on the active political right willing to stand against all things Left and Woke. There is certainly a need for them

    The best anti-Woke right wing thinkers go into writing/journalism. Douglas Murray is sharp. Niall Ferguson writes well. Scruton was a genius
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
    Intelligence is no measure of being wise. It merely means you are able to deploy more sophisticated arguments.

    A lot of very intelligent people in Sweden advocated eugenics in the 1930s on the basis it was 'progressive', as well.

    Think. You must always think.
    Shite as it was, even "Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones" (2002) touched on this:


    Dexter: Huh! I should think that you Jedi would have more respect for the difference between knowledge and... heh heh heh... wisdom.
    Obi-Wan : Well if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there?
    Given the debate in Star Wars fandom over whether droids are sentient and/or slaves, I'd be careful about bringing that up... :)
    "Don't you call me a mindless philosopher, you overweight glob of grease!"
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    If only I could write novels. I’d turn this hotel into a novel. I believe there are precedents

    A novel about a whacky writer typing his thoughts out all day whilst drinking more and more until madness takes over? Seen the film.
    Under the Volcano or The Shining?
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    And how many arts (and classics) graduates working as journalists are banging on about the menace of wokeness.
    I think HYUFD's analysis would regard an Oxford Greats second class degree as quite different from a First in PPE at, say, Manchester.
    Having a good degree in classics would suggest you have a well above average score on the verbal element of IQ certainly, it would depend how much logic and maths was in the PPE course as to what your IQ would likely then be
    Actually, I should need to be convinced of that particular case. I've seen it suggested that classics is often correlated with mathematics, suggesting dead languages can be mastered by those with a capacity for the patterns of declension and conjugation rather than the creativity of live, modern languages. BUT as I say, I've not seen evidence of that, just the suggestion.
    That doesn't look like a real distinction to me. There's modern languages every bit as inflected as Latin and Greek and you don't get to be creative with the rules if you want to understand and be understood
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,526
    MattW said:

    Yesterday I went up to south Derbyshire to drop something off to my family. My watch demanded I do a fast run, so I decided to run into Nottingham from the nearest park and ride - there's a good path alongside most of the new line, and it was just under ten km.

    Once in Nottingham, I had to slow down as the city was packed with people, many dressed very colourfully. It happened to be Nottingham Pride, and I spent an hour chatting to various strangers on the street, despite being somewhat sweaty after my run and not exactly dressed for the festivities.

    Everyone seemed happy, and there was a great atmosphere.

    If that was woke, then we need more of it. :)

    Now you're saying your militant Lycra Lout was some form of Out and Proud Gimp?

    :wink:
    :)

    I doubt it. For one thing, he was going in the other direction. Perhaps that's why he was in a hurry; he wanted to get away from the happiness in case he get infected...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,469
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    If only I could write novels. I’d turn this hotel into a novel. I believe there are precedents

    A novel about a whacky writer typing his thoughts out all day whilst drinking more and more until madness takes over? Seen the film.
    Under the Volcano or The Shining?
    The Shining. I could have written the post better!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich

    At night it is crazy
    There will be all sorts around a border city like that - and there’s always a steady supply of pretty young women around rich men, even in the middle of a war. Those ladies look like they’re dressed for Friday brunch in the sandpit.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    edited July 2023
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
    Add one letter, and Max Verstrappen would be a killer brand for a dominatrix.

    Max and Strappen (= to strap) speak for themselves.

    Ver is a German prefix meaning "some kind of extreme or excess of the root verb".
    Which sleb ripoff quite reminds me of the offie in Sunderland that used to be called Amy's Winehouse.


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    If only I could write novels. I’d turn this hotel into a novel. I believe there are precedents

    A novel about a whacky writer typing his thoughts out all day whilst drinking more and more until madness takes over? Seen the film.
    Under the Volcano or The Shining?
    All work and no play makes Leon a dull boy
    All work and
    no play makes Leon a dull boy
    All work and no play makes
    Leon
    a dull boy

    All work and no play makes Leon a dull boy
    All work and
    no play makes Leon a dull boy
    All work and no play makes
    Leon
    a dull boy

    All work and no play makes Leon a dull boy
    All work and
    no play makes Leon a dull boy
    All work and no play makes
    Leon
    a dull boy
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    Your shopping used to cost £100. Then it went up to £110. Well, we have kept our pledge, so now it just costs £115.

    Vote Conservative.

    That'll work.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Life expectancy in the US: It has increased steadily, except during wars and pandemics (of which the 1918 flu pandemic is the most important). (For those obsessed with race, I will observe that blacks had been gaining in life expectancy faster than whites, and reducing the gap between races, for decades. As I recall, black women passed white men in life expectancy some time in the 1980s.)

    Until 2014: "The average life expectancy in the United States has been on a decline since 2014. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cites three main reasons: a 72% increase in overdoses in the last decade (including a 30% increase in opioid overdoses from July 2016 to September 2017, but did not differentiate between accidental overdose with a legal prescription and overdose with opioids obtained illegally and/or combined with illegal drugs i.e., heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, etc.), a ten-year increase in liver disease (the rate for men age 25 to 34 increased by 8% per year; for women, by 11% per year), and a 33% increase in suicide rates since 1999."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

    Since this is a political site, I will observe that the decline began when Barack Obama was president -- and that he was not a supporter of the war on drugs. Despite the horrible impact the crack epidemic had in the 1980s on the black population.

    Some Democrats are beginning to realize this is a problem for them. Recently, Washington state's junior senator, Maria Cantwell, has been doing a "listening tour", in which she tries to show concern about the fentanyl problem. (I would say better late than never, were I certain her concern is genuine.)

    (Full disclosure: I think anyone who wants to discuss life expectancy in the US should read about the "Hispanic paradox" before they say anything publicly.)
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,331
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
    Add one letter, and Max Verstrappen would be a killer brand for a dominatrix.

    Max and Strappen (= to strap) speak for themselves.

    Ver is a German prefix meaning "some kind of extreme or excess of the root verb".
    Which sleb ripoff quite reminds me of the offie in Sunderland that used to be called Amy's Winehouse.



    There is, or was, an IT shop called Alan Cartridge.

    A-ha
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694

    Life expectancy in the US: It has increased steadily, except during wars and pandemics (of which the 1918 flu pandemic is the most important). (For those obsessed with race, I will observe that blacks had been gaining in life expectancy faster than whites, and reducing the gap between races, for decades. As I recall, black women passed white men in life expectancy some time in the 1980s.)

    Until 2014: "The average life expectancy in the United States has been on a decline since 2014. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cites three main reasons: a 72% increase in overdoses in the last decade (including a 30% increase in opioid overdoses from July 2016 to September 2017, but did not differentiate between accidental overdose with a legal prescription and overdose with opioids obtained illegally and/or combined with illegal drugs i.e., heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, etc.), a ten-year increase in liver disease (the rate for men age 25 to 34 increased by 8% per year; for women, by 11% per year), and a 33% increase in suicide rates since 1999."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

    Since this is a political site, I will observe that the decline began when Barack Obama was president -- and that he was not a supporter of the war on drugs. Despite the horrible impact the crack epidemic had in the 1980s on the black population.

    Some Democrats are beginning to realize this is a problem for them. Recently, Washington state's junior senator, Maria Cantwell, has been doing a "listening tour", in which she tries to show concern about the fentanyl problem. (I would say better late than never, were I certain her concern is genuine.)

    (Full disclosure: I think anyone who wants to discuss life expectancy in the US should read about the "Hispanic paradox" before they say anything publicly.)

    Anyone who wants to discuss life expectancy should be aware of the long-term trends affecting mortality are completely uncorrelated with the party holding the presidency.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich

    At night it is crazy
    There will be all sorts around a border city like that - and there’s always a steady supply of pretty young women around rich men, even in the middle of a war. Those ladies look like they’re dressed for Friday brunch in the sandpit.
    But this is Ukraine. And they’re at war! And it’s a small poor city not Dubai!

    I love it. I’m having a gin

    Laisser Les Bon Temps Rouler



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,341
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    What they fail to understand is that it turn on the head of a pin too, and the root cause of that is a willingness to blindly follow fashion and a lack of critical thinking.

    Beware: fashions can change as soon as a more fashionable and trendy sentiment than the one you favour displaces the old.

    So, you might applaud Woke sentiment being enthusiastically echoed amongst the under 25s one minute and then act aghast the next when you discover that:

    "The Savanta survey of 1,214 people in the UK aged between 16 and 25 showed that 41 percent of Black respondents and 31 percent of Asian respondents viewed Tate positively"

    https://savanta.com/eu/knowledge-centre/view/1-in-3-have-a-positive-view-of-andrew-tate/

    "A third (34%) of young men find no issue with his view of masculinity and a quarter say his views on women (26%) and sexual assault/violence (24%) are not problematic either.

    While his influence may not be as large as his subscriber count, Tate has managed to capture the admiration of a portion of young people – disproportionately male, straight and from ethnic minority backgrounds – who find his views on women, masculinity and violence palatable."


    The only protection we have for our values (real values that is of the rights of the individual and free expression to arrive at well-considered democratic conclusions) is moderation, and critical thinking, and that means we should applaud when ultra-liberal shibboleths are challenged as much as reactionary ones.

    It's the Paul Scofield speech for the modern age, except in reasoning rather than law.
    Sure. And the causes of the Lancashire Cotton Famine remain a modern woke invention. Noting to do with reliance on Confederate cotton. Nothing. The definition of woke I think you’re struggling for is “anything that doesn’t fit my comfortable world-view”.
    Are you ok, Hun?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    It looks like @HYUFD inhabits Planet Reality


    “Since 1946, five major exams that quantify intelligence (including ACT, SAT, and GRE) have shown a steady pattern in which students who choose majors in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics are generally more intelligent.”

    https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/your-college-major-indicates-your-intelligence/
    On the other hand, do any of those measure IQ? He was talking about IQ.
    SATs are very definitely based on classic IQ tests. It’s one reason they are newly controversial in the USA
    Newly? Always were. As was IQ. Decades ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    Currently haggling with Sky.

    They've offered to forego the increase. Now I've told them I can get everything for £35 a month less and that's floored them.

    They tried to tell me I couldn't get free view through an aerial (!) so they're clearly rattled.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    And how many arts (and classics) graduates working as journalists are banging on about the menace of wokeness.
    I think HYUFD's analysis would regard an Oxford Greats second class degree as quite different from a First in PPE at, say, Manchester.
    Having a good degree in classics would suggest you have a well above average score on the verbal element of IQ certainly, it would depend how much logic and maths was in the PPE course as to what your IQ would likely then be
    Someone with PPE would have higher visibility.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,341
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich




    At night it is crazy
    Do they smile?

    One thing I've noticed in Eastern Europe (for decades actually) is that no-one smiles.

    Learned under Communism no doubt, when showing your emotions could be actively dangerous, but there's no doubt it's not particularly attractive when no-one smiles at you.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich

    At night it is crazy
    There will be all sorts around a border city like that - and there’s always a steady supply of pretty young women around rich men, even in the middle of a war. Those ladies look like they’re dressed for Friday brunch in the sandpit.
    But this is Ukraine. And they’re at war! And it’s a small poor city not Dubai!

    I love it. I’m having a gin

    Laisser Les Bon Temps Rouler



    It's away from the missiles.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,202
    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladys Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Up to a point.

    There are many reasons why Nurse Gladys Emmanuel isn't cycling around, but one is the number of cars on roads that can't really cope with them.

    The strand of Conservatism that is all about 50s/60s nostalgia for community and whatnot ought to be all for car light, fifteen minute neighbourhoods.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    edited July 2023
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
    Add one letter, and Max Verstrappen would be a killer brand for a dominatrix.

    Max and Strappen (= to strap) speak for themselves.

    Ver is a German prefix meaning "some kind of extreme or excess of the root verb".
    Which sleb ripoff quite reminds me of the offie in Sunderland that used to be called Amy's Winehouse.



    There is, or was, an IT shop called Alan Cartridge.

    A-ha
    But Douglas Adams did it backwards, and created a celebrity.


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,341
    kjh said:

    @HYUFD I have given you more likes today than I think I have ever done before.

    Whatever it is you are doing stop it. It is unnerving me.

    My post should have got about 3 million likes, because it's utterly bang-on and describes the intellectual bankruptcy at the heart of the West today, but it's obviously too taxingly thought-provoking for most to decide what to do with it.

    Maybe I should play to the gallery and try cat memes instead.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,888
    Seems topical...

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080
    edited July 2023

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladys Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Up to a point.

    There are many reasons why Nurse Gladys Emmanuel isn't cycling around, but one is the number of cars on roads that can't really cope with them.

    The strand of Conservatism that is all about 50s/60s nostalgia for community and whatnot ought to be all for car light, fifteen minute neighbourhoods.
    I think I 've argued before that the transformer will be relatively reduced house prices in areas which suffer from through traffic.

    More strategically, I think that current Conservative Towns in the South-East will be left behind and less attractive if they fail to invest in active travel. The old maids cycling to evensong will want to ride their E-bikes and E-trikes without being mown down at a Toucan Crossing by a dozy driver on their mobile phone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,341

    Yesterday I went up to south Derbyshire to drop something off to my family. My watch demanded I do a fast run, so I decided to run into Nottingham from the nearest park and ride - there's a good path alongside most of the new line, and it was just under ten km.

    Once in Nottingham, I had to slow down as the city was packed with people, many dressed very colourfully. It happened to be Nottingham Pride, and I spent an hour chatting to various strangers on the street, despite being somewhat sweaty after my run and not exactly dressed for the festivities.

    Everyone seemed happy, and there was a great atmosphere.

    If that was woke, then we need more of it. :)

    Or, it was just a function of people out to mutually celebrate something and have a good time?

    You could say that about generic carnivals (whatever happened to those? Kids in my day would each band together to make their own float) or, indeed, street parties to celebrate Royal weddings or jubilees?

    Not sure the mechanism is really the function of it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich

    At night it is crazy
    There will be all sorts around a border city like that - and there’s always a steady supply of pretty young women around rich men, even in the middle of a war. Those ladies look like they’re dressed for Friday brunch in the sandpit.
    But this is Ukraine. And they’re at war! And it’s a small poor city not Dubai!

    I love it. I’m having a gin

    Laisser Les Bon Temps Rouler



    During WWI and WWII many people observed and commented on the lifestyle of rich people in London. Lots of unfavourable comments about grossly rich blokes, over dressed young women, conspicuous consumption etc.

    Similar stuff in Paris, Berlin etc…
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,854

    Seems topical...

    Of far more interest in that area ia Yi-Ban near Royal Albert DLR and the Newham Riverside building. Absolutely superb dim sum - far better than the tourists get in Chinatown.

    I was there yesterday and wondered what an e-prix was - now I know.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788

    MattW said:

    Yesterday I went up to south Derbyshire to drop something off to my family. My watch demanded I do a fast run, so I decided to run into Nottingham from the nearest park and ride - there's a good path alongside most of the new line, and it was just under ten km.

    Once in Nottingham, I had to slow down as the city was packed with people, many dressed very colourfully. It happened to be Nottingham Pride, and I spent an hour chatting to various strangers on the street, despite being somewhat sweaty after my run and not exactly dressed for the festivities.

    Everyone seemed happy, and there was a great atmosphere.

    If that was woke, then we need more of it. :)

    Now you're saying your militant Lycra Lout was some form of Out and Proud Gimp?

    :wink:
    :)

    I doubt it. For one thing, he was going in the other direction. Perhaps that's why he was in a hurry; he wanted to get away from the happiness in case he get infected...
    I think I've met him. In my experience the nasty kind of cyclists and runners tend to fall into two categories - young and mostly male neds, or a certain kind of middle aged professional male always equipped just so with all the right Lycra, headwear, footwear, and vibrators or whatever electronics they need to prove their timings to the hundredth of a second, so it's a direct insult to expect them to lose 0.02sec on that day's run/cycle by having any consideration at all for others. They always seem to have that anally plugged constipated look. The last but one time I encountered one of the latter (the runner variety), he frightened me so much by flashing past on the inside that I shouted in sheer surprise, and he wanted to know what I could possibly find to complain about, and started squaring up to me when I explained. Very fortunately Mrs C was there and managed to cool things down. He's possibly the same man I saw nearly knock an old lady into the wall at the height of covid by refusing to divert two feet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    ULEZ compliant cars, just ignore the 1MW of diesel generators at the back of the paddock.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,469

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich

    At night it is crazy
    There will be all sorts around a border city like that - and there’s always a steady supply of pretty young women around rich men, even in the middle of a war. Those ladies look like they’re dressed for Friday brunch in the sandpit.
    But this is Ukraine. And they’re at war! And it’s a small poor city not Dubai!

    I love it. I’m having a gin

    Laisser Les Bon Temps Rouler



    During WWI and WWII many people observed and commented on the lifestyle of rich people in London. Lots of unfavourable comments about grossly rich blokes, over dressed young women, conspicuous consumption etc.

    Similar stuff in Paris, Berlin etc…
    It is touched on poignantly in “The Cruel Sea” where Morel’s wife is cheating on him whilst he is at sea and she is partying it up with a fast crowd whilst he risks death.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    Of course there is former Democratic presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson's famous quip to a supporter in the 1950s.

    The supporter told him “Every thinking person in America will be voting for you!”

    “I’m afraid that won’t do,” Stevenson retorted. “I need a majority.”
    That’s a great quip. Surely apocryphal. Still great
    Also goes loooooooooong way to explaining why Adlai Stevenson won exactly ONE general election in his life.

    In 1948 for Governor of Illinois, running against one of the most incompetent Republican incumbents in the history of the great Prairie State (and that is REALLY saying something!) that year.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    kjh said:

    @HYUFD I have given you more likes today than I think I have ever done before.

    Whatever it is you are doing stop it. It is unnerving me.

    What really is unnerving me is the faith in IQ tests. But of course grammar schools, so IQ tests must be perfect.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,341
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Yesterday I went up to south Derbyshire to drop something off to my family. My watch demanded I do a fast run, so I decided to run into Nottingham from the nearest park and ride - there's a good path alongside most of the new line, and it was just under ten km.

    Once in Nottingham, I had to slow down as the city was packed with people, many dressed very colourfully. It happened to be Nottingham Pride, and I spent an hour chatting to various strangers on the street, despite being somewhat sweaty after my run and not exactly dressed for the festivities.

    Everyone seemed happy, and there was a great atmosphere.

    If that was woke, then we need more of it. :)

    Now you're saying your militant Lycra Lout was some form of Out and Proud Gimp?

    :wink:
    :)

    I doubt it. For one thing, he was going in the other direction. Perhaps that's why he was in a hurry; he wanted to get away from the happiness in case he get infected...
    I think I've met him. In my experience the nasty kind of cyclists and runners tend to fall into two categories - young and mostly male neds, or a certain kind of middle aged professional male always equipped just so with all the right Lycra, headwear, footwear, and vibrators or whatever electronics they need to prove their timings to the hundredth of a second, so it's a direct insult to expect them to lose 0.02sec on that day's run/cycle by having any consideration at all for others. They always seem to have that anally plugged constipated look. The last but one time I encountered one of the latter (the runner variety), he frightened me so much by flashing past on the inside that I shouted in sheer surprise, and he wanted to know what I could possibly find to complain about, and started squaring up to me when I explained. Very fortunately Mrs C was there and managed to cool things down. He's possibly the same man I saw nearly knock an old lady into the wall at the height of covid by refusing to divert two feet.
    I know exactly what you mean.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    edited July 2023
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich

    At night it is crazy
    There will be all sorts around a border city like that - and there’s always a steady supply of pretty young women around rich men, even in the middle of a war. Those ladies look like they’re dressed for Friday brunch in the sandpit.
    But this is Ukraine. And they’re at war! And it’s a small poor city not Dubai!

    I love it. I’m having a gin

    Laisser Les Bon Temps Rouler



    During WWI and WWII many people observed and commented on the lifestyle of rich people in London. Lots of unfavourable comments about grossly rich blokes, over dressed young women, conspicuous consumption etc.

    Similar stuff in Paris, Berlin etc…
    It is touched on poignantly in “The Cruel Sea” where Morel’s wife is cheating on him whilst he is at sea and she is partying it up with a fast crowd whilst he risks death.
    I can see why - if you are young and beautiful - or just young - or just alive - you might be minded to party right now in Ukraine. Whenever you get the fleeting chance

    I’ve read estimates that 50,000 Ukrainian men have died on the lines so far

    That’s another 200,000 injured or kidnapped or whatever? And a lot of young women left alone and sad and maybe inclined to HAVE FUN BECAUSE WAR
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,854

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD I have given you more likes today than I think I have ever done before.

    Whatever it is you are doing stop it. It is unnerving me.

    My post should have got about 3 million likes, because it's utterly bang-on and describes the intellectual bankruptcy at the heart of the West today, but it's obviously too taxingly thought-provoking for most to decide what to do with it.

    Maybe I should play to the gallery and try cat memes instead.
    The problem with your post was the insight you thought it contained was no insight at all.

    Had PB existed in the 1920s, we'd have had posters extolling the virtues of Communism and Fascism and claiming democracy was old-fashioned and finished.

    The intellectual bankruptcy of the West has been forecast for a century and yet here we are.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,469
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich

    At night it is crazy
    There will be all sorts around a border city like that - and there’s always a steady supply of pretty young women around rich men, even in the middle of a war. Those ladies look like they’re dressed for Friday brunch in the sandpit.
    But this is Ukraine. And they’re at war! And it’s a small poor city not Dubai!

    I love it. I’m having a gin

    Laisser Les Bon Temps Rouler



    During WWI and WWII many people observed and commented on the lifestyle of rich people in London. Lots of unfavourable comments about grossly rich blokes, over dressed young women, conspicuous consumption etc.

    Similar stuff in Paris, Berlin etc…
    It is touched on poignantly in “The Cruel Sea” where Morel’s wife is cheating on him whilst he is at sea and she is partying it up with a fast crowd whilst he risks death.
    I can see why - if you are young and beautiful - or just young - or just alive - you might be minded to party right now in Ukraine. Whenever you get the fleeting chance

    I’ve read estimates that 50,000 Ukrainian men have died on the lines so far

    That’s another 200,000 injured or kidnapped or whatever? And a lot of young women left alone and sad and maybe inclined to HAVE FUN BECAUSE WAR
    Not great for morale though whilst you are at the front being shot at and shelled to save your country, your wife and family and you get back scarred and find out the woman you were fighting for just shagged a bunch of Italian travel journalists/mafiosi/intelligence officers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    @TSE
    Thank you for your advice, it's worked. £35 off my next bill.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129
    edited July 2023
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    More seriously, your Italians are going to be either deniable ‘government operatives’, private ‘military consultants’, or mafiosi with business to do.

    Waitresses (and other patrons) who just start crying, well they all have a story to tell. There’s lots of fathers, husbands, and boyfriends, suffering from an actual war not far away from where you are now.
    Yes that’s my analysis. The Italians don’t look like mafiosi so I’m going with “private military consultants”

    An example of the gangsters’ molls, sorry, the girls that drift in and out. This is on Sunday afternoon FFS - in a city which, I have worked out, is the Ukrainian equivalent of Norwich

    At night it is crazy
    There will be all sorts around a border city like that - and there’s always a steady supply of pretty young women around rich men, even in the middle of a war. Those ladies look like they’re dressed for Friday brunch in the sandpit.
    But this is Ukraine. And they’re at war! And it’s a small poor city not Dubai!

    I love it. I’m having a gin

    Laisser Les Bon Temps Rouler



    During WWI and WWII many people observed and commented on the lifestyle of rich people in London. Lots of unfavourable comments about grossly rich blokes, over dressed young women, conspicuous consumption etc.

    Similar stuff in Paris, Berlin etc…
    It is touched on poignantly in “The Cruel Sea” where Morel’s wife is cheating on him whilst he is at sea and she is partying it up with a fast crowd whilst he risks death.
    I can see why - if you are young and beautiful - or just young - or just alive - you might be minded to party right now in Ukraine. Whenever you get the fleeting chance

    I’ve read estimates that 50,000 Ukrainian men have died on the lines so far

    That’s another 200,000 injured or kidnapped or whatever? And a lot of young women left alone and sad and maybe inclined to HAVE FUN BECAUSE WAR
    Not great for morale though whilst you are at the front being shot at and shelled to save your country, your wife and family and you get back scarred and find out the woman you were fighting for just shagged a bunch of Italian travel journalists/mafiosi/intelligence officers.
    Has anyone told @Leon about how in Ukrainian culture, someone who makes tools with rocks is a special insult? So if someone thinks he is carrying on with the local ladies… well, they will use a blunt knife…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    King Charles III writing in his diary: Stayed in, reigned all day.

    Perhaps he did, but I'm sceptrecal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,569
    ydoethur said:

    @TSE
    Thank you for your advice, it's worked. £35 off my next bill.

    Hurrah, Martin Lewis wishes he was me.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    . . . the latest "Woke gone wild' outrage . . .

    Seattle Times ($) - U.S. Navy ship will honor Billy Frank Jr., WA tribal rights leader

    Billy Frank Jr. was arrested over 50 times trying to preserve his and his tribe’s treaty right to fish in their ancestral waters.

    Now, the legendary Nisqually elder who was a central figure in the fight for tribal fishing rights and environmental protections in the Pacific Northwest will have a U.S. Navy ship named after him.

    A future U.S. Navy Navajo-class towing, salvage and rescue ship — TATS-11 — will be named the USNS Billy Frank Jr., officials announced this month. . . .

    Starting in 2019, the Navy began naming a new class of ships after prominent Native Americans or Native American tribes in honor of their contributions to the armed forces — American Indians and Alaska Natives serve in the U.S. military at a higher rate than any other ethnic group in the country. Frank served in the Marine Corps for two years. . . .

    William “Billy” Frank Jr. was born in 1931 as a member of the Nisqually tribe in Washington, and he grew up fishing on his tribal land.

    He began his long career as an activist in 1945 as a boy, when he was arrested for catching steelhead and chum with his net in the Nisqually River. Over the years, he would become the face of a defining civil rights movement in the Pacific Northwest.

    After serving as a military policeman in the Marine Corps during the Korean War, Frank returned to Washington, where he continued to fight for the right to fish Chinook and other salmon in his tribe’s historical waters.

    Despite 19th century treaties guaranteeing Northwest tribes access to historical waters, commercial and sport fishing had led to a drop in stocks at local salmon fisheries. In response, state game agents began harassing and targeting tribal fishermen, including Frank and his father.

    Over the years, Frank and others staged “fish-ins” at the Washington state Capitol, protesting the arrests and raids against Indigenous fishermen blamed for the decline.

    That organizing culminated in a landmark decision in 1974, when U.S. District Judge George Boldt affirmed the tribes’ right to half of the fish harvest — as well as the country’s obligation to honor treaties. That ruling was extended to the harvest of shellfish in 1993. . . .

    Frank would go on to serve as chair of the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission for over three decades and receive numerous accolades. In the later half of his life, Frank turned his activism toward protecting forests and salmon streams from excessive timber harvest and development. He died in 2014 at age 83. A statue of Frank is set to be placed in the Statuary Hall in the U.S. Capitol, a revered civic space where each state is represented by two figures deserving of national commemoration. . . .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,363

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    We are back to the Farage formula again. I am having a personal banking crisis+ I am anti-woke= banks are woke.

    A bit stereotypical of you assuming white van man is a tattooed anti-woke hero.
    So you dont actually have an explanation.

    Leon's original point was "woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity". To which I suggested that the "woke" have higher IQs than the self-assumed victims of woke.

    I didn't see anything that would lead me to consider "and yet the Global Financial Crisis wasn't caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?"

    I would argue Leon's analysis is right to a point, but not in relation to people he calls "woke" but rather to those who consider themselves to be victims of "woke". Voters who are taken in by Brexit, Johnson and Trump.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD I have given you more likes today than I think I have ever done before.

    Whatever it is you are doing stop it. It is unnerving me.

    My post should have got about 3 million likes, because it's utterly bang-on and describes the intellectual bankruptcy at the heart of the West today, but it's obviously too taxingly thought-provoking for most to decide what to do with it.

    Maybe I should play to the gallery and try cat memes instead.
    If I may comment, I didn't understand your argument. Are the young people with the woke thoughts you object to the same as those supporting Andrew Tate? It seems unlikely given Tate's public comments but maybe Tate is woke on your definition. It's a slippery concept.


    But if those "woke" young people are opposed to Tate, can't we at least say they are not bad in the same way as Tate is, even if they are not actually good in your view?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/30/exploitation-of-care-workers-in-england-is-appalling-says-government-adviser

    Re Mr Sunak's targets, if i had put them to my boss under SMART he'd have told me to clear off and redo them.

    Boats are all very well ... but what about immigration? Or the wages issue implicit in inflation and national economic growth? An interesting report on the mess that is social care, its wages and recruitment.


    'In a strongly worded intervention, Prof Brian Bell, who has just been reappointed by the home secretary, Suella Braverman, as chair of the migration advisory committee (MAC), called the government’s tacit acceptance of exploitation in the sector “appalling”.

    He said the failure to tackle chronically low wages suggested the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) had “no interest” in improving the lives of care workers.

    “They may not say it explicitly, but I think they basically believe that care workers should be paid less than people who stack shelves for Aldi – because that’s what their policy is,” he told the Guardian.
    [...]

    But Bell and his colleagues insisted migration must be only a temporary solution, and in April last year published a robust report, urging the government to raise wages to attract more UK staff.

    Since then, he says, ministers have sat back while the care system has sucked in thousands of low-paid overseas workers – despite the government’s anti-migration rhetoric.'
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    FPT, specifically the discussion of Coutts Bank's internal report on Nigel Farage which cited his recommendation of the comedy piece by Ricky Gervais as among the reasons to close his bank account...

    ...Today I learnt there has actually been a case in Wacko Trans-Cult Britain in which a woman who was punched in the face by a man who claimed to be a woman was ordered by a judge in court to refer to the man as "she". (She submitted to the judge's demand but wishes she hadn't.)

    Her account is here:

    https://www.peaktrans.org/district-judge-kenneth-grant/#more-6838
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,363
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    Was at a lunch with some Ukrainian refugees yesterday in attendance, all spoke near perfect English, very well turned out and most already have paid jobs here too
    What was Brexit for if it wasn't to get rid of highly educated, high attaining Eastern Europeans? Send 'em back to the EU!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    Was at a lunch with some Ukrainian refugees yesterday in attendance, all spoke near perfect English, very well turned out and most already have paid jobs here too
    What was Brexit for if it wasn't to get rid of highly educated, high attaining Eastern Europeans? Send 'em back to the EU!
    The highly educated, high attaining, Eastern Europeans, can still easily get UK work visas.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    Was at a lunch with some Ukrainian refugees yesterday in attendance, all spoke near perfect English, very well turned out and most already have paid jobs here too
    What was Brexit for if it wasn't to get rid of highly educated, high attaining Eastern Europeans? Send 'em back to the EU!
    Actually it was sold as ending the infinite supply of low skilled workers, while retaining the high skilled immigration.

    The reality is both, of course.

    Note the comments above. In the *Guardian*. About the attempts to keep wages down in the care sector. Apparently the Guardian is buying into the Neon Fascist Racist Imperialist line that the supply of labour effects wages.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,981
    I was very woke last night. My broken ribs which had been healing nicely seem to be having a change of mind and spent all last night delivering shooting neuralgia pains up into my neck. 30 minutes sleep all night - the very definition of woke.

    If anyone knows of a miracle cure to this godawful condition please let me know. Otherwise my anti-woke fight back will consist of codeine and attempting to sleep sitting up.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    A rather depressing article on the Ukraine war outlook

    In essence: Moscow is preparing for a longer and bigger war. And Russia can afford it, helped by China. And it has 4 times the manpower of Ukraine


    https://www.ft.com/content/861a8955-924e-4d3e-8c59-73a13403e191


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,077
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    Was at a lunch with some Ukrainian refugees yesterday in attendance, all spoke near perfect English, very well turned out and most already have paid jobs here too
    What was Brexit for if it wasn't to get rid of highly educated, high attaining Eastern Europeans? Send 'em back to the EU!
    The highly educated, high attaining, Eastern Europeans, can still easily get UK work visas.
    Of course they can: but they can also travel to Frankfurt and interview for jobs, without worrying about the need to apply for a visa.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited July 2023
    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Yes - I've been pointing out to a few people on X today that we have been building LTNs everywhere since the 1960s, and arguably since the 1930/40s. Plus that we have been applying them to existing housing areas since the 1970s to my personal knowledge.

    They don't like it very much !

    They seem to want to live in Open All Hours with nurse Gladice Emmanuel cycling along to soothe their knitted brows.
    Indeed. The anti-LTN campaigners in Oxford generally live or work in historic LTNs of the type you describe. The guy from "Reconnecting Oxford" lives in a cul-de-sac estate. The most egregious, Clinton Pugh (father of Florence Pugh, as the Oxford Mail never ceases to remind us), actually got Oxfordshire County Council to convert the street outside his cafe into an LTN back in the 1990s so there was more space for outdoor tables. But anyone else's street becoming an LTN so Clinton can't drive his SUV up it? Fetch the pitchforks.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    Was at a lunch with some Ukrainian refugees yesterday in attendance, all spoke near perfect English, very well turned out and most already have paid jobs here too
    What was Brexit for if it wasn't to get rid of highly educated, high attaining Eastern Europeans? Send 'em back to the EU!
    The highly educated, high attaining, Eastern Europeans, can still easily get UK work visas.
    Of course they can: but they can also travel to Frankfurt and interview for jobs, without worrying about the need to apply for a visa.
    And yet a German company, I work for, has given up trying to hire new IT staff in Germany. They are expanding in London instead.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,854
    Not much talk about the King George at Ascot tomorrow either. I'm on WESTOVER each way at 20/1.

    I'm sure we've all discussed at length about what a fantastic tipster @stodge is - and why not?

    The dim sum yesterday had to be paid for somehow....
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,395
    TimS said:

    I was very woke last night. My broken ribs which had been healing nicely seem to be having a change of mind and spent all last night delivering shooting neuralgia pains up into my neck. 30 minutes sleep all night - the very definition of woke.

    If anyone knows of a miracle cure to this godawful condition please let me know. Otherwise my anti-woke fight back will consist of codeine and attempting to sleep sitting up.

    I would suggest that a red led light/near infrared light device could give you a lot of relief - and there's a fair amount of evidence that it promotes long term healing too. They are widely available, but something on these lines could work for ribs: https://amzn.eu/d/bolx4MF
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,077

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?

    They’ve come to admire the cathedral.
    Hah!

    Honestly. This place has the best people watching EVER

    On one side you’ve got wealthy local families just here for tea. Than the overdressed beautiful Ukrainian girls. Too many of them to make sense. Then the mysteriously, stupidly rich Ukrainians who drive Rolls Royce SUVs. Now tough looking but affluent Italian men

    Than the silent obviously military types who give nothing away at all. Then the odd poor Bukovinan peasant couple who have wandered in by mistake and look completely bewildered. Then waitresses who start crying over nothing - it’s happened twice now. Boyfriends just killed or injured in the war?

    And your correspondent, sitting in the corner
    Was at a lunch with some Ukrainian refugees yesterday in attendance, all spoke near perfect English, very well turned out and most already have paid jobs here too
    What was Brexit for if it wasn't to get rid of highly educated, high attaining Eastern Europeans? Send 'em back to the EU!
    The highly educated, high attaining, Eastern Europeans, can still easily get UK work visas.
    Of course they can: but they can also travel to Frankfurt and interview for jobs, without worrying about the need to apply for a visa.
    And yet a German company, I work for, has given up trying to hire new IT staff in Germany. They are expanding in London instead.
    I'm glad to hear that.

    My point was a very simple one: applying for a visa is friction. Even if it is very minor friction, it is still friction, and it will therefore deter at least some number of skilled people.

    Now, maybe that's not a big deal in the general scheme of things. Or maybe it is.

    And, of course, the rise of remote working also has an impact here. (We have a UK operation, and it contains a number of remote Poles.)
This discussion has been closed.