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Is Rishi Sunak set to be hoist with his own petard? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,216
edited August 2023 in General
Is Rishi Sunak set to be hoist with his own petard? – politicalbetting.com

% of Britons who think the government is doing well on Rishi Sunak's 5 pledgesReducing inflation: 14% (+7 from 20-21 June)Encouraging economic growth: 17% (+3)Reducing national debt: 10% (+2)Cutting waiting lists: 5% (=)Tackling small boats: 6% (=)https://t.co/TMGvop8VRG pic.twitter.com/mF25KjL9iQ

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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    The ultimate total non-story about rich rich cabinet ministers was George Osborne getting widespread grief for eating a Byron Burger rather than a McDonalds late at night before the budget.....because it cost £7. Those were the days when a "posh" burger was just £7. You are lucky to get change from £15 if you go to Five Guys these days.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,936
    edited July 2023
    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,990
    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969
    edited July 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2023
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Also falling inflation does not obviously mean falling prices, it means falling rate of increase in prices......it still means further pain. It is why the target is always 2%, because slow and steady increase is much more manageable all round.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters don't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    Financial literacy is a huge problem....we all remember Deficit vs Debt....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% this month.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The question isn't about the facts - it's about perceptions.

    Like ULEZ - everyone thinks it's going to cost them financially until they find out their car is compliant and then it becomes a non-issue.

    Even if inflation does fall (which it no doubt will), many voters will still see their costs rising especially as annual insurance renewals are put up 20% or more by gouging insurance companies and energy bills remain high while utility companies make enormous profits.
    Also falling inflation does not obviously mean falling prices, it means falling rate of increase in prices......it still means further pain. It is why the target is always 2%, because slow and steady increase is much more manageable all round.
    Indeed. Actual Deflation is dangerous - and can become dismally unpleasant
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,406
    edited July 2023
    viewcode said:

    It's Sunday, and that can only mean... Perun day! (claps like a seal)

    Now calm down children. What has our antipodean War Santa bought in his sack this week?

    Perun 20230730: "The Black Sea & The Naval War in Ukraine - Drones, Grain, Blockades & the Bridge to Crimea": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8D7ioiW0JA (1hr 1min 49sec)

    FPT
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I just want it noted that I, for one, never gave two hoots about the cricket, anyway. A silly boring game
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    edited July 2023
    By sleight of hand, on paper Sunak will meet all his targets. Whether the voter believes a word of it is the question.

    Anyway all those pledges mean not a jot. Sunak is now the motorist's friend. His success can be measured on declining road safety and air pollution. Targets he should easily achieve if he crosses swords with the automotive green lobby.

    I have been quite impressed with Sunak of late, but this car nonsense is just absurd, base politics. What a tit!

  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    FPT:

    What we should be doing is finding creative ways to reduce our greenhouse gas output, including (as Casino Royale mentioned the other day) changing cow feed to reduce methane emissions, dressing fields with rock dust that that they sequester more carbon, use tidal energy, a cheap, dependable source of zero carbon energy, get behind small modular reactors properly and ensure that all current nuclear stations are recommissioned as small modular reactor stations.

    Don't forget bionic duckweed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969
    Leon said:

    I just want it noted that I, for one, never gave two hoots about the cricket, anyway. A silly boring game

    Same, I'm watching the Grand Prix.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    I just want it noted that I, for one, never gave two hoots about the cricket, anyway. A silly boring game

    Well there is no more of the boring long form of it another 6 months.....so you don't need to worry about that. And nobody gives a shit about the Trent Turbos vs Yorkshire Yorkie Bars in the Hundred.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    And that includes massive portions of the media.....We saw it with debt vs deficit "debates" and COVID stats, all far too confusing.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,856

    FPT:

    What we should be doing is finding creative ways to reduce our greenhouse gas output, including (as Casino Royale mentioned the other day) changing cow feed to reduce methane emissions, dressing fields with rock dust that that they sequester more carbon, use tidal energy, a cheap, dependable source of zero carbon energy, get behind small modular reactors properly and ensure that all current nuclear stations are recommissioned as small modular reactor stations.

    Don't forget bionic duckweed.
    Quite a poorly written article, and given that most of the things mentioned above are very 'old tech', that's why we know they work, not very relevant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Leon said:

    I just want it noted that I, for one, never gave two hoots about the cricket, anyway. A silly boring game

    Same, I'm watching the Grand Prix.
    That's currently very dull too.

    The only interesting thing so far is Hamilton pushing Sainz into Piastri and smashing them both up.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    52% at the last count.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969
    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    And that includes massive portions of the media.....We saw it with debt vs deficit "debates" and COVID stats.
    And really quite an alarming number of MPs, as well

    Worse, IQs are declining fast across the West (and perhaps elsewhere). I see evidence of this all the time, now

    AI can’t happen fast enough

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    We could increase average IQ by about 8% by reclassifying all civil servants at the DfE, DfT, DoH and associated agencies as 'pond life.'

    Wouldn't solve the problem of people not grasping inflation, of course.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    I just want it noted that I, for one, never gave two hoots about the cricket, anyway. A silly boring game

    Same, I'm watching the Grand Prix.
    That's currently very dull too.

    The only interesting thing so far is Hamilton pushing Sainz into Piastri and smashing them both up.
    Rain coming up in 15-20 mins.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,856

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    Not sure that is fair - inflation is encountered on the street as an actual increase in prices, rather than the differential thereof (or the differential of the differential if we are talking about, say, Mr Sunak saying that inflation is slowing down).

    Also: that assumes that numbers of voters with the different IQ scores are a pure normal curve in their distribution. Which doesn't make sense, if only because many people are effectively zero IQ (e.g. dementia).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    And that includes massive portions of the media.....We saw it with debt vs deficit "debates" and COVID stats.
    And really quite an alarming number of MPs, as well

    Worse, IQs are declining fast across the West (and perhaps elsewhere). I see evidence of this all the time, now

    AI can’t happen fast enough

    Well MPs being thick is a given.....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I suppose democracy is slightly self correcting in that the really really really thick voters are too thick to vote. Esp the young who have lower IQs due to the Reverse Flynn Effect

    Some small consolation there
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    It’s unfair to single out Brits. Half the people across the world have an IQ under 100. And most countries where this has been measured now have declining IQ
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited July 2023

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Quite a few of us post on here too!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Even Nelson doesn't bring a wicket :disappointed:
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    We could increase average IQ by about 8% by reclassifying all civil servants at the DfE, DfT, DoH and associated agencies as 'pond life.'

    Wouldn't solve the problem of people not grasping inflation, of course.
    Unfair on watery tarts distributing cutlery from ponds.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,990
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    And that includes massive portions of the media.....We saw it with debt vs deficit "debates" and COVID stats.
    And really quite an alarming number of MPs, as well

    Worse, IQs are declining fast across the West (and perhaps elsewhere). I see evidence of this all the time, now

    AI can’t happen fast enough

    I would like to see some evidence of declining (or should it be falling) IQs.

    Perhaps, like @SeanT, you are blessed with a very high IQ. One can only hope unlike him, you have above average levels of modesty and humility.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969
    ydoethur said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
    A new front on the culture wars.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about how 48% of brits couldnt beat a bus in an argument ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    ydoethur said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
    Like Radiohead, Python?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,245
    edited July 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    ydoethur said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
    A new front on the culture wars.
    Ther are people out there who like Suella Braverman :hushed:
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,463
    One hint that the targets aren't going well is Sunak's pivot from talking about them at every opportunity to all this motorist's friend stuff.

    Five months to go, what's his likely score?

    Technical passes (but nothing to write home about) on the fiscal ones?
    NHS queues unshortened?
    Boats unstopped?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    ...
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about Welsh rugby, pineapple on pizza, Die Hard, the awesomeness of Max Verstappen or - horror! - that they think AV is shit?
    A new front on the culture wars.
    Ther are people out there who like Suella Braverman :hushed:
    Mr Braverman, Mr and Mrs Fernandez, err....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    Lap 17 for the sweepstake.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    And that includes massive portions of the media.....We saw it with debt vs deficit "debates" and COVID stats.
    And really quite an alarming number of MPs, as well

    Worse, IQs are declining fast across the West (and perhaps elsewhere). I see evidence of this all the time, now

    AI can’t happen fast enough

    I would like to see some evidence of declining (or should it be falling) IQs.

    Perhaps, like @SeanT, you are blessed with a very high IQ. One can only hope unlike him, you have above average levels of modesty and humility.
    Sure

    https://thedebrief.org/new-study-reveals-sharp-decline-in-american-iq-scores-as-the-reverse-flynn-effect-takes-center-stage/

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/iq-rates-are-dropping-many-developed-countries-doesn-t-bode-ncna1008576


    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/health/falling-iq-scores-study-intl/index.html

    I mean, you coulda googled that in 1 minute for yourself, but I’ll just take your inability to do that as more evidence of declining IQ
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,969
    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    You may like this thread.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,245
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    Those dim or very dim Britons include the prime minister himself. This is his exact pledge:

    We will halve inflation this year to ease the cost of living and give people financial security.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    ydoethur said:

    Even Nelson doesn't bring a wicket :disappointed:

    More chance of CON winning the election than us getting a wicket!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,133

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Is it about how 48% of brits couldnt beat a bus in an argument ?
    52% were fooled into voting Leave, myself included :grimace:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    You may like this thread.
    It would make a good provocative Spectator or Telegraph piece

    ARE WOKE PEOPLE JUST STUPID?

    That would get the clicks. And it’s not unknown for these vultures to steal ideas from us
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    The fuel price spike from last year is about to drop out of the inflation numbers. Petrol and diesel are now 25% cheaper than a year ago.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    You may like this thread.
    It would make a good provocative Spectator or Telegraph piece

    ARE WOKE PEOPLE JUST STUPID?

    That would get the clicks. And it’s not unknown for these vultures to steal ideas from us
    The Telegraph might well go for that, though any newspaper which employs Allister Heath probably ought to be a bit circumspect about calling others stupid.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,415
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    The fuel price spike from last year is about to drop out of the inflation numbers. Petrol and diesel are now 25% cheaper than a year ago.
    Creeping up slightly now though. Diesel up to 135.9 from 132.9 at Costco (Best price)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,245

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    Nominal fallacy, as in calling people out as woke, isn't necessarily a sign of intelligence I suggest, even less that they should be arbiters of intelligence.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    You may like this thread.
    It would make a good provocative Spectator or Telegraph piece

    ARE WOKE PEOPLE JUST STUPID?

    That would get the clicks. And it’s not unknown for these vultures to steal ideas from us
    The Telegraph might well go for that, though any newspaper which employs Allister Heath probably ought to be a bit circumspect about calling others stupid.
    In m y experience, trying to turn political and moral positions into a religion occurs across the political spectrum.

    A friend once asked why I wasn’t a Pastafarian. I told him that within a century or 2, the Defenders Of Penne would be murdering the Advocates of Tagliatelle. And vs.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,245
    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    Indeed it could be 5 misses out of 5 on criteria that Sunak chose to suit himself.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,140
    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    Inflation measured monthly over those 7 months is 3.9% so inflation of 1.5% over the next five months meets his target. Possible, but unlikely.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumerpriceinflation/june2023#:~:text=On a monthly basis, CPIH,of 0.8% in June 2022.

  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    The Sunak list does seem a bit cackhanded. Which part of the electorate gives a toss whether there's economic growth according to statisticians, or what happens to the size of the national debt? Practically nobody. Or maybe graduate Liberal Democrat recycler "active members of the community" care about this kind of thing in about ten constituencies, plus totally out of touch academics in saddo cities like Cambridge and Oxford.

    But there's universal suffrage nowadays. Gotta look good to the plebs. Gotta do that by appealing to emotions.

    What's left is cut waiting lists, reduce inflation, and stop the boats.

    Presumably they'll get experts to say in the media before the election that waiting lists have been cut, and they'll fiddle the figures over the preceding months so they can assert with straight faces that this is true. Of course it won't really be true. It will be a lie. Unfortunately I'm not sure that many in Britain have the confidence to say that Our Heroes who run the state health service (oh thank you, thank you) are a bunch of f***ing liars, though. On the other hand, whereas John Major might have got away with wrapping himself in the NHS flag, Sunak won't. So maybe a small pull away from the Tories here. But this is all less relevant than many think, because many in the population have given up hope. Nobody's ever won a British election on health.

    Inflation? The published figures bear little reality to people's lives, and so do the changes in published figures, but I guess there's still some mileage in saying the CPI has gone down from 8.7% to 6.2% (or something to do with percent anyway, illustrated by an arrow) because most people don't think hey let's compare that with the fact that the packet of fruit slice biscuits I buy in Tesco's now has four packs of three in it when it used to have five packs of three, but the price is the same.

    Stop the boats. <-- This is by far the most important. It tugs hard on emotional hooks for many people, people who haven't got much in their lives other than their white skins. This is how the Tories will win the election. They will stop the boats. And they will make sure they are perceived as having a big fight for a few months against a rainbow coalition of humanitarian types who are trying to stop them. Then they win that fight and romp across the finishing line.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    The fuel price spike from last year is about to drop out of the inflation numbers. Petrol and diesel are now 25% cheaper than a year ago.
    The peak was June-July lat year - about a year ago. Doesn't that mean the fall in fuel prices is about to start dropping out of the annualised inflation rate?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,483
    BTW, the following is both worrying and hilarious.

    A scientific study on honesty was found to use faked data:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/07/francesca-gino-harvard-research-retraction/674630/

    Part of a much larger problem, which is the reason why it's important for results to be replicated by other groups - something that can be fairly difficult in certain sciences.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,133
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    The fuel price spike from last year is about to drop out of the inflation numbers. Petrol and diesel are now 25% cheaper than a year ago.
    Creeping up slightly now though. Diesel up to 135.9 from 132.9 at Costco (Best price)
    144.9 Ilford, A12 Eastern Avenue!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,140

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    You may like this thread.
    It would make a good provocative Spectator or Telegraph piece

    ARE WOKE PEOPLE JUST STUPID?

    That would get the clicks. And it’s not unknown for these vultures to steal ideas from us
    The Telegraph might well go for that, though any newspaper which employs Allister Heath probably ought to be a bit circumspect about calling others stupid.
    In m y experience, trying to turn political and moral positions into a religion occurs across the political spectrum.

    A friend once asked why I wasn’t a Pastafarian. I told him that within a century or 2, the Defenders Of Penne would be murdering the Advocates of Tagliatelle. And vs.
    That’s what happens when actual religion becomes less popular.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    To achieve Premium Stupidity, great intelligence is required.

    LTCM, for example.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,879
    Reducing debt is tricky when borrowing currently well over £100 billion per year(23/24)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed
  • PeckPeck Posts: 517
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    Those last two sentences sum up much of what appears in PB comments threads very well. And it's not just "data" that is dismissed or ignored, either.

    And the fact that every healthy baby can learn to read by the age of 15-18 months (and they love it) blows the f***ing concept of IQ completely out of the water. BANG! DEAD!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,025
    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    The fuel price spike from last year is about to drop out of the inflation numbers. Petrol and diesel are now 25% cheaper than a year ago.
    The peak was June-July lat year - about a year ago. Doesn't that mean the fall in fuel prices is about to start dropping out of the annualised inflation rate?
    It means that the headline inflation rate is about to drop precipitously.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,936
    edited July 2023

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,406

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    They thought that the pattern they detected was eternal and universal. It was in fact specific to a time and place and based on underlying assumptions. When those assumptions changed, their predictions failed and they could not cope.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,406
    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That door swings both ways. :)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Chris said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    The inflation rate has essentially nothing to do with Sunak of course, but it is the only one of five pledges that Sunak is on track for. 4 misses out of 5 is impressively hopeless given Sunak chose his own KPIs
    Is it clear that inflation is on track to halve in a year? When the pledge was made, the CPI inflation rate figure was 10.7%. Seven months later it is 7.9%. That rate of decrease isn't quite fast enough, and history suggests that the rate of decrease will more likely slow over the next five months.
    The fuel price spike from last year is about to drop out of the inflation numbers. Petrol and diesel are now 25% cheaper than a year ago.
    The peak was June-July lat year - about a year ago. Doesn't that mean the fall in fuel prices is about to start dropping out of the annualised inflation rate?
    It means that the headline inflation rate is about to drop precipitously.
    Think about it, though. The current annualised rate is comparing prices now to prices a year ago. So it includes a hefty negative contribution owing to the 25% decrease in fuel prices that you're talking about. The decrease over the last 6 months is only about 5% or so. Even to maintain the current negative contribution, fuel prices would need to drop by more than 20% over the next 6 months.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,406
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    You have no idea how happy that just made me... :)

    [basks in smugness]
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Smart people will generally get into positions of power. So most good or bad things that happen in life are going to be the fault of smart people.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,910
    edited July 2023

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    We are back to the Farage formula again. I am having a personal banking crisis+ I am anti-woke= banks are woke.

    A bit stereotypical of you assuming white van man is a tattooed anti-woke hero.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    And how many arts (and classics) graduates working as journalists are banging on about the menace of wokeness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,936
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    Concern about climate change isn't particularly Woke, even Thatcher and John McCain warned about it and neither were exactly Woke
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,300
    Peck said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    Those last two sentences sum up much of what appears in PB comments threads very well. And it's not just "data" that is dismissed or ignored, either.

    And the fact that every healthy baby can learn to read by the age of 15-18 months (and they love it) blows the f***ing concept of IQ completely out of the water. BANG! DEAD!
    I don't believe you responded to my objection to this argument the last time you made it. Every healthy child is able to run, but that doesn't mean that every child has the same athletic ability.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    We are back to the Farage formula again. I am having a personal banking crisis+ I am anti-woke= banks are woke.

    A bit stereotypical of you assuming white van man is a tattooed anti-woke hero.
    It’s the age old salt of the earth fallacy. Politicians have indulged in it since time immemorial.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    Tories: Vote for us! You might inherit a stairwell in Twickenham without paying IHT!

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/30/step-to-riches-disused-stairwell-in-london-could-be-yours-for-just-20000
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,215
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    Concern about climate change isn't particularly woke, even Thatcher and John McCain warned about it and neither were exactly Woke
    I’m afraid that’s the direction politics is now taking us, courtesy as always of our American friends.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    Concern about climate change isn't particularly woke, even Thatcher and John McCain warned about it and neither were exactly Woke
    Climate change - only briefly. The ozone layer, for which she does deserve credit, is a different matter altogether.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-green-hero
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet the facts show one of his key pledges is starting to be met. Inflation fell to 7.9% last month from 8.7%.
    https://news.sky.com/story/inflation-falls-to-7-9-in-bigger-than-expected-drop-12922655

    The CBI also expects the UK economy to grow by 0.4% in 2023, firming to 1.8% in 2024.

    https://www.cbi.org.uk/media-centre/articles/uk-economy-set-to-grow-and-business-investment-to-rise-following-brush-with-recession-cbi-economic-forecast/
    Bush Snr also left Clinton with a falling deficit by raising taxes, even if it partly cost him the election as some of his base went to Buchanan in the GOP primaries and Perot in the main 1992 Presidential election

    But for most voters that doesn't count that as falling inflation.

    When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)

    Prices to decrease 47%
    Prices to increase more slowly 42%
    Don't know 11%


    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/06/11/deflating-rishi-sunak/
    That’s a brilliant bit of data. It is sublimely good evidence of a rather uncomfortable truth - 50% of people have an IQ below 100. By definition. Half of Britons are either quite dim or very dim - they think “halving inflation” = prices going DOWN

    I do sometimes have my doubts about democracy when I remember this important fact. Half the country is thick
    Of course there is former Democratic presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson's famous quip to a supporter in the 1950s.

    The supporter told him “Every thinking person in America will be voting for you!”

    “I’m afraid that won’t do,” Stevenson retorted. “I need a majority.”
    That’s a great quip. Surely apocryphal. Still great
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    TimS said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    Given how many scientists and medics are worried about climate change and the inequality caused by "Conservative" Party policies, HYUFD's analysis is decidedly off kilter.
    And how many arts (and classics) graduates working as journalists are banging on about the menace of wokeness.
    I think HYUFD's analysis would regard an Oxford Greats second class degree as quite different from a First in PPE at, say, Manchester.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,027
    Leon said:

    I just want it noted that I, for one, never gave two hoots about the cricket, anyway. A silly boring game

    I, for one, never gave 2 hoots about the grand prix, anyway. A silly boring "race" in which the winner was completely predictable before it started.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    It looks like @HYUFD inhabits Planet Reality


    “Since 1946, five major exams that quantify intelligence (including ACT, SAT, and GRE) have shown a steady pattern in which students who choose majors in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics are generally more intelligent.”

    https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/your-college-major-indicates-your-intelligence/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,138
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
    The SD for example.

    Guess what they master minded?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,364
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    It looks like @HYUFD inhabits Planet Reality


    “Since 1946, five major exams that quantify intelligence (including ACT, SAT, and GRE) have shown a steady pattern in which students who choose majors in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics are generally more intelligent.”

    https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/your-college-major-indicates-your-intelligence/
    On the other hand, do any of those measure IQ? He was talking about IQ.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    We are back to the Farage formula again. I am having a personal banking crisis+ I am anti-woke= banks are woke.

    A bit stereotypical of you assuming white van man is a tattooed anti-woke hero.
    So you dont actually have an explanation.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    I doubt it, the most woke tend to be arts and humanities and politics and sociology graduates and even then more some form of cultural studies or creative arts than Medieval or Renaissance historians.

    STEM graduates are generally not any more woke than the average member of the population and they tend to have the highest IQs.
    What world do you inhabit? It certainly isn't on planet earth.
    It looks like @HYUFD inhabits Planet Reality


    “Since 1946, five major exams that quantify intelligence (including ACT, SAT, and GRE) have shown a steady pattern in which students who choose majors in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics are generally more intelligent.”

    https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/your-college-major-indicates-your-intelligence/
    On the other hand, do any of those measure IQ? He was talking about IQ.
    SATs are very definitely based on classic IQ tests. It’s one reason they are newly controversial in the USA
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    This Ukrainian hotel continues to fascinate. There is now an influx of wealthy-looking, English-speaking Italians. All male

    🧐

    I suspect they are not “on holiday”. So: what are they here for?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,708
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    I do have a thread coming up at 7pm showing just how thick some Brits are.

    Don't get like that, I am sure it will be fine.
    This is the new hill I am going to die on.

    It is actually quite worrying reflection on Brits.
    Is this a uniquely British thing or effecting the whole of the West?
    I have only seen polling for Brits.
    Woke is, I believe, one symptom of declining western IQ. A return to naive, quasi-religious credulity. People want to be told what to think, and they find contrary opinions uncomfortable instead of stimulating. And they simply dismiss troubling data as wrongthink, otherwise it would overwhelm them
    That's nonsense. The well educated tofu eating elitist liberal wokerati have higher IQs that your tattooed anti-woke heroes.
    And yet the Global Financial Crisis wasnt caused by blokes driving white vans but by people with Oxford degrees and Harvard MBAs, How do you explain that ?
    Having a high IQ has never meant having integrity or empathy for other people.
    Indeed. A lot of the senior Nazis were genuinely smart
    Intelligence is no measure of being wise. It merely means you are able to deploy more sophisticated arguments.

    A lot of very intelligent people in Sweden advocated eugenics in the 1930s on the basis it was 'progressive', as well.

    Think. You must always think.
This discussion has been closed.