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Starmer’s flawed strategy? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,316
    Foxy said:

    Rejoin won't be on offer at the next GE in England, though at least LD are planning to join the SM.

    Parties cannot ignore the electorate forever, and polls increasingly show growing support so I think it likely to be on offer in 2028/9.

    I think rejoin is going to end up as one of those things - like STV/PR - where you can probably find a majority of the electorate in favour of it with the rightly worded question, and the status quo is viewed very negatively by a core group of people, but it never comes close to happening because the Tories are implacably opposed, Labour are equivocal, and it's not something over which people will change their vote.

    If the Lib Dems were to start winning by-elections due to the issue, or the Tories were to conclude that the path to revived British greatness lay in EU membership, then I can see how it would happen.

    Neither of those things are going to happen, mostly because Farage was a much more effective political campaigner than anyone on the pro-EU side of the argument. Pro-EU/ant-Brexit sentiment within the electorate will therefore remain in opinion polls, and will fail to be activated in politics generally.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    They spoiled his Strava segment.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795

    Heathener said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    I reckon Sunak has now seriously begun to formulate an election-winning strategy that he thinks will secure victory. It's based around transport. It consists of:

    - Save the motorist. Abandon HS2, ban LTNs and ULEZ.
    - Stop the boats.
    - A helipad in every neighbourhood.

    Abandoning HS2 only makes sense if he's given up all hope of winning seats in the north.
    Northerners use roads not railways.
    That would surprise anyone using the Tyneside metro, or the Sheffield trams.
    Yes. Tyneside Metro is awesome. And very well used.
    It's on its knees. The new trains are desperately needed.

    Frequent cancellations, and all too often a complete collapse of the service.

    Ilford Road!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    .
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Our more strident leavers seem to get a bad case of sand in the vag whenever brexit is mentioned these days. Generally, not an indication of a signal success.

    I’d vote Leave again
    You wouldn't and everybody knows it.
    I believe standard operating practice for journalists is to write two essays on the eve of the vote, then publish the one you believe will benefit your career the most.

    Joking aside, the highly polarised positions everyone has taken post vote seems to forget just how deeply conflicted a lot of people felt before casting their vote, with many people thinking both options on the table were a bit of a curate's egg.
    Well, quite. I was basically 50/50. Heart v head. Money v democracy. I could see very plausible arguments for both sides (the Remain side were inferior at making those plausible arguments). Also arguments against both sides

    In the end I titled, personally, 52/48 towards Leave, so I voted Leave. Now I’m probably about 55/45. I’ve got slightly LeaviER
    Stridently 55/45.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,963

    the Tories are implacably opposed

    The UKIP proportion of the electorate is only ever declining
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    I see the GOP are still concentrating on matters of the greatest national importance.

    Mike Pence tells @daveweigel that Biden acknowledging Hunter's daughter is "a welcome step" but says he should have acted sooner
    https://twitter.com/BenjySarlin/status/1685401034577870849
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    I find this polling fascinating because Labour’s current polling lead could shrink if the government stops becoming quite so unpopular between now and election.

    Secondly no great support for Labour’s policies means they risk becoming rapidly very unpopular if and when they take power.


    Statements of the obvious. Labour's entire election strategy is being Not-Tory. As I've complained often enough before in recent months, they appear to offer nothing except to manage decline less incompetently than Rishi Sunak. It's a vision and inspiration free zone, in which most of the initiatives they did tentatively advance have been watered down or ditched under the cover of an ailing economy - which isn't going to stop ailing unless you actively try to fix it.

    Nobody is going to vote Labour because they're wetting themselves with excitement at the thought of charging Eton VAT on its fees and using the money to fund school breakfast clubs, which appears presently to constitute the limits of Labour's ambitions for the country.

    And that policy won't even raise revenue anyway, and may cost it as it throws more children into an overstretched state system.

    Also, don't forget their other policies like nationalising utilities and banning new UK oil and gas exploration that will cost the exchequer money too.
    The IFS says it's revenue positive. And the reason the state system is already overstretched is that the Tories have defunded it, safe in the knowledge that Benedict and Tabitha will be fine at their lovely independent school.
    The IFS says many things that turn out to be wrong.

    And while it is true the state system is underfunded that is not just a Tory problem. Many of the reasons for its underfunding - the removal of non-mainstream provision which wastefully concentrates children who cannot cope in mainstream schools, centralisation, academy chains and a punitive inspection regime which suck resources away from where they might be useful - were begun under Labour.
    I thought ofsted inspections started in 1990.
    Yes, but the single word report system we have now started under Labour.

    Not that what went before was any better, being essentially an ego trip for Chris Woodhead.
    I’ve heard it claimed that a report suggested that 95% of the money spent on centralised enforcement and regulation in schools was written in the early 2000s.

    That is, the Nation Curriculum etc isn’t too bad, but that the attempts to control schools centrally are just pissing up a rope.

    Having watched a school being built up from the first class of primary kids and known the admins well, I can believe it. They spent a lot of time
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Three points:

    1. Welcome to first-past-the-post. How do these numbers compare to previous change elections? I have no idea, but suspect they’re similar.

    2. Going into government on the back of low expectations is a positive, not a negative.

    3. Given the first two points, if the Tories do lose, much will depend on their reaction. As things stand, a swing to the right looks much more likely than a tack back to the centre.

    All that said, I wish Labour would stop being so scared. The party’s fear of the Tory press and how it dictates the wider broadcast media narrative is a fair one - the Farage story is the latest example - but that fear can become paralysing. That seems to be where we are now.

    I think too much caution could end up doing more harm than good from a Labour perspective. But I also think that if Labour does make it into office, it’s likely to be there for at least a couple of terms.

    I think my concern about Labour is not so much their caution, but have they identified the problems correctly?

    I would argue not, and that's the real issue.

    So, for example, their two big education policies are VAT on private schools and get rid of the one word inspection reports from OFSTED. Neither is indefensible, but leaving aside the question of what either will achieve in practice, they both rather miss the point.

    Poor administration and over-examination are killing the state sector just as much as underfunding, for example, but I see no plans to abolish useless SATs, league tables, and academy chains.

    Similarly, the inspection regime is deeply flawed, to the extent many OFSTED inspectors say in private they don't understand what the 'curriculum framework' actually means. And I don't blame them, because it's a slogan not a policy. Having a report card instead of a frequently wrong or at least, misleading single word judgement may help, but until we can get beyond the banal clichés beloved by Spielman and before her Wilshaw and Gilbert and actually consider the strengths and weaknesses of a school in realistic way, and Labour have announced no plan for that.

    Finally, eliminating the difficulty schools have in removing highly disruptive children because there is nowhere for them to go is a quick and easy win - open more PRUs and SEND schools. That would make a colossal difference on all levels. But I see no policy for that either.

    As Sir Arnold said good governance is about finding the right questions to ask. The Tories have failed at this, truly catastrophically, but so far Labour are showing no signs of doing better.
    Totally agree on over-examination and poor inspection. Both leave little time for teachers to engage in actual education. And there’s another problem: where are all the teachers we need going to come from?

    Given current UK demographic trends its more likely we have a shortage of pupils than a shortage of teachers
    We do not have a shortage of teachers. There are loads of us about.

    We have a shortage of teachers willing to work in the classroom for current pay and conditions. The latter being, in my experience, actually more important than the former.

    Again, we should be asking the question 'why is that?' rather than saying VAT on private school fees to fund a pay rise will solve the problem.
    Anyone who thinks that increasing productivity is about working harder, needs setting on fire, incidentally.

    A common theme - you talk to teachers, they have tons of shit to do. All of them say that it not the teaching, but the other stuff.

    Increase teacher productivity by offloading paperwork to admin assistants.

    An example from the Evul Private Sector - at a couple of the big consultancies, they sketch the ideas in a meeting with the client. The sketch get emailed to a remote outfit that turns the sketches into a glossy presentation. Within hours.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,356
    edited July 2023

    Foxy said:

    Rejoin won't be on offer at the next GE in England, though at least LD are planning to join the SM.

    Parties cannot ignore the electorate forever, and polls increasingly show growing support so I think it likely to be on offer in 2028/9.

    Pretty much. And then the question becomes whether the UK is happy to align with SM with, at best, indirect say on what happens. It's one thing accepting that if you're a small country who knows what they've carved out, such as Norway or Switzerland. The prospect sent the British right potty in 2016-20, and I don't see that changing.
    The reality is that we may as well align with the standards of the single market because unless the product is 100% domestic consumption only it needs to meet those standards anyway.

    Literally the only benefit of imposing our own standards would be if they are tougher but I suspect if we were to do that we would end up on the wrong side of an international trade treaty anyway...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited July 2023
    The LTN announcement has cheered me up immeasurably. If Sunak goes through with it then that's Oxfordshire County Council remaining very safely in LD/Lab/Green hands at the next election.

    Most voters like LTNs. Those who don't are by and large voting Tory anyway. So it's a strategy for hanging onto Uxbridge, not a strategy for regaining any losses or reversing the polls. Like the French generals, Sunak is fighting the last war.

    (On a technical note, I'm not convinced councils actually need access to the DVLA database for ANPR-enforced LTNs anyway. If you're letting a bus through, you don't need the DVLA database, you just need Stagecoach to tell you the registration plates of its buses. Otherwise, you just pass the imagery on to Thames Valley Police with a note saying "ello ello ello, here's a car going through the LTN".)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Foxy said:

    Rejoin won't be on offer at the next GE in England, though at least LD are planning to join the SM.

    Parties cannot ignore the electorate forever, and polls increasingly show growing support so I think it likely to be on offer in 2028/9.

    I think rejoin is going to end up as one of those things - like STV/PR - where you can probably find a majority of the electorate in favour of it with the rightly worded question, and the status quo is viewed very negatively by a core group of people, but it never comes close to happening because the Tories are implacably opposed, Labour are equivocal, and it's not something over which people will change their vote.

    If the Lib Dems were to start winning by-elections due to the issue, or the Tories were to conclude that the path to revived British greatness lay in EU membership, then I can see how it would happen.

    Neither of those things are going to happen, mostly because Farage was a much more effective political campaigner than anyone on the pro-EU side of the argument. Pro-EU/ant-Brexit sentiment within the electorate will therefore remain in opinion polls, and will fail to be activated in politics generally.
    I don't think that's the useful question. It's what damage limitation are people willing to accept for Brexit? If you make a mistake you can either reverse the mistake or learn to live with it. Currently neither is happening.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,202
    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129

    Just read that the Americans paid a huge economic price for independence: per capita income collapsed by 46% between 1774 and 1790, and as late as 1805 per capita wealth was still around 14% lower than it had been in 1774.

    Of course, it had all paid off about a century later but breaking up integrated empires and trading blocs does come at a price - sometimes for many decades.

    They still got massive immigration in that period.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States

    Poor immigrants moving to the Appalachian backwoods to be subsistence farmers or to the cities to be an urban proletariat wouldn't help per capita income.

    I suspect that the USA's economic advance came with the twin forces of industrialisation and settlement of the mid-West and Mississippi valley.
    Yes. This kicked off, big time, in the middle of the 19th cent. Part of the reason that the Fire Eaters launched the Civil War was their fear of the transformation of the North - growing in population and wealth at an increasing rate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    edited July 2023
    Foxy said:

    Rejoin won't be on offer at the next GE in England, though at least LD are planning to join the SM.

    Parties cannot ignore the electorate forever, and polls increasingly show growing support so I think it likely to be on offer in 2028/9.

    I doubt it will ever be on offer, not least as it means join the Euro, Schengen etc which even many Remain voters would have voted against.

    Plus under FPTP the redwall and Tory Leave marginal seats are now the key swing seats, the strongest rejoin seats are safe Labour or LD seats anyway so even rejoin the single market would not be on the table until Labour had not only won a general election but been re elected
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,963

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Just rejoice that something like this exists. Rejoice



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Harrison Ford was a roadie for the Doors in 1968
    https://twitter.com/crockpics/status/1685311720225488896
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If the Remain campaign had put out just one positive PPB during the campaign I think they might have won the referendum.

    Most of them were part of Bettertogether who won by not putting out one positive PPB during the campaign, and were in fact the originators of the Project Fear concept. They complacently thought they could repeat that.
    Which was a bit stupid of them given the polls in SindyRef closed markedly over the course of the campaign, suggesting actually negative campaigning was counterproductive.
    On the economic and currency risks it was negative campaigning that got No to 55%, remember Yes had a brief lead mid campaign
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,526
    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
    It's really about slack ear defender discipline on '40s ranges

    Trinity [explodes]

    Oppenheimer: I am become deaf, the destroyer of worlds

    Gen Leslie Groves: Nice bomb, Bobby

    Oppenheimer: YOU'LL HAVE TO SPEAK UP
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Just rejoice that something like this exists. Rejoice



    That spike thing on the breast plate looks like an accident waiting to happen.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,963

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    Nippy used a helicopter. It didn't help her do anything quicker or better.

    And the problem for Richi is that he can afford his own helicopter. And Starmer can't.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
    Haven't seen it.
    I prefer Bainbridge.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 929
    To me all this is piffle and irrelevant.
    13 years plus almost inevitably means CHANGE.
    There is nothing the government can do about it, it is the way of the world.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    Mmm. I rather think the point is that he doesn't have to be in different places quickly - even the sclerotic incompetence that is Government IT is presumably capable of installing Teams on his laptop.

    But those photo opportunities aren't going to shoot themselves. If Sunak takes a helicopter to be photographed next to a bunch of grinning schoolchildren or Ben Houchen in a hard hat or whatever, it's absolutely fair game for Labour to rip into him.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,080

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    Generally agree with you on that.

    How wide is the path at that point?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823

    ydoethur said:

    Anecdote alert.

    On Friday I went to the Game Fair at Ragley Hall. So on Thursday we stayed at Avoncote near Henley in Arden. My wife wanted an early evening visit to John Lewis, so we ventured into Solihull. A tail of two towns really. On the Touchwood shopping centre, where John Lewis is sited you could buy yourself high end Miele consumer electronics or a Polestar electric car from their own exclusive retail spaces. Old Solihull was a little bit tired. Not helped by House of Fraser closing, nonetheless one could smell the money. On the way back to the Hotel we stopped at the Boot in Lapworth, the car park was like the Geneva Motor show and the place was buzzing. All the little towns and villages around Henley looked like they were doing very, very well. I thought to myself, there is no way the Conservatives are going to lose the next GE.

    The game fair also oozed conspicuous consumption. If this is England, what's not to like? I had a table booked in Ross-on-Wye for the evening, so had a few hours to kill. We decided to stop at Evesham, which during my childhood was a day out by the river and an idyllic place. Not any more. There was real and obvious poverty, obesity and in broad daylight low level drug dealing from the passenger seat of an old Seat Leon. It wasn't much better in Upton upon Severn and Great Malvern. All solid Tory areas where decay is prevalent. If the Conservatives win this election which to my mind seems likely, with more of the same, they will surely lose the next.

    There have always been some grim areas of Malvern, especially the area around Malvern Link. I used to work in Dyson Perrins school many years ago and it was easy to spot the social problems.

    I suspect the difference there is wealthy people are no longer coming in to pump up the money as spa towns are no longer fashionable.
    Some are and some wont be.

    Many of the rural areas which are fashionable have the problems of housing being bought by retirees / second homers / holiday leters.

    With the locals, especially the young, being forced to leave for work and housing opportunities.

    Its something that Sunak should be well aware of:

    The Richmondshire district of North Yorkshire may be as picturesque as they come, but it also has one of the most rapidly declining populations in the UK, according to the latest government census.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-61981623
    It is also expensive so attracts wealthy retirees who with farmer and second homers make up most of the local community. 'The average cost of a property in the historic market town is £285,889, according to Zoopla, while properties in the nearby military town of Catterick - where Mrs Uludole lives - are more than £100,000 cheaper.'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-61981623
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    HYUFD said:


    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If the Remain campaign had put out just one positive PPB during the campaign I think they might have won the referendum.

    Most of them were part of Bettertogether who won by not putting out one positive PPB during the campaign, and were in fact the originators of the Project Fear concept. They complacently thought they could repeat that.
    Which was a bit stupid of them given the polls in SindyRef closed markedly over the course of the campaign, suggesting actually negative campaigning was counterproductive.
    On the economic and currency risks it was negative campaigning that got No to 55%, remember Yes had a brief lead mid campaign
    I agree entirely.

    Shame it started at well north of 60%...
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    How do you know the guy in lycra was "part of the cycling lobby"?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694
    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
    Haven't seen it.
    I prefer Bainbridge.
    Favourite physicists? Has to be Marie Curie was polish born but french bread.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,316
    Scott_xP said:

    the Tories are implacably opposed

    The UKIP proportion of the electorate is only ever declining
    That may be true, but they have a firm grip on the Conservative Party, and most voters will not determine their vote based on what they think about Brexit.

    When the generation of europhobes loses its grip on the Tories, and are replaced by people more pragmatic on the EU, I'd anticipate a certain amount of neighbourly co-operation with the EU - but Rejoin? I don't see it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,759
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anecdote alert.

    On Friday I went to the Game Fair at Ragley Hall. So on Thursday we stayed at Avoncote near Henley in Arden. My wife wanted an early evening visit to John Lewis, so we ventured into Solihull. A tail of two towns really. On the Touchwood shopping centre, where John Lewis is sited you could buy yourself high end Miele consumer electronics or a Polestar electric car from their own exclusive retail spaces. Old Solihull was a little bit tired. Not helped by House of Fraser closing, nonetheless one could smell the money. On the way back to the Hotel we stopped at the Boot in Lapworth, the car park was like the Geneva Motor show and the place was buzzing. All the little towns and villages around Henley looked like they were doing very, very well. I thought to myself, there is no way the Conservatives are going to lose the next GE.

    The game fair also oozed conspicuous consumption. If this is England, what's not to like? I had a table booked in Ross-on-Wye for the evening, so had a few hours to kill. We decided to stop at Evesham, which during my childhood was a day out by the river and an idyllic place. Not any more. There was real and obvious poverty, obesity and in broad daylight low level drug dealing from the passenger seat of an old Seat Leon. It wasn't much better in Upton upon Severn and Great Malvern. All solid Tory areas where decay is prevalent. If the Conservatives win this election which to my mind seems likely, with more of the same, they will surely lose the next.

    There have always been some grim areas of Malvern, especially the area around Malvern Link. I used to work in Dyson Perrins school many years ago and it was easy to spot the social problems.

    I suspect the difference there is wealthy people are no longer coming in to pump up the money as spa towns are no longer fashionable.
    Some are and some wont be.

    Many of the rural areas which are fashionable have the problems of housing being bought by retirees / second homers / holiday leters.

    With the locals, especially the young, being forced to leave for work and housing opportunities.

    Its something that Sunak should be well aware of:

    The Richmondshire district of North Yorkshire may be as picturesque as they come, but it also has one of the most rapidly declining populations in the UK, according to the latest government census.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-61981623
    It is also expensive so attracts wealthy retirees who with farmer and second homers make up most of the local community. 'The average cost of a property in the historic market town is £285,889, according to Zoopla, while properties in the nearby military town of Catterick - where Mrs Uludole lives - are more than £100,000 cheaper.'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-61981623
    It also has, I think, the largest male/female imbalance, due to the garrison at Catterick.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    The row about the Chancellor of the Exchequer travelling First on a train, with his red box, was one of the funnier ones.

    He’s a bloody Cabinet minister, of course he’s not showing his work to random people who might sit next to him.

    That said, if I were Rishi Rich’s diary secretary, I’d be doing my best to avoid taking the helicopter. It reinforces negative stereotypes around him being too weathly to understand regular people.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    theakes said:

    To me all this is piffle and irrelevant.
    13 years plus almost inevitably means CHANGE.
    There is nothing the government can do about it, it is the way of the world.

    That’s what many thought in 1992.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,526

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    How do you know the guy in lycra was "part of the cycling lobby"?
    I don't, for sure. But the way he was dressed - as though he was part of a TdF team - and the way he argued with the people, highly indicates it. ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    The row about the Chancellor of the Exchequer travelling First on a train, with his red box, was one of the funnier ones.

    He’s a bloody Cabinet minister, of course he’s not showing his work to random people who might sit next to him.

    That said, if I were Rishi Rich’s diary secretary, I’d be doing my best to avoid taking the helicopter. It reinforces negative stereotypes around him being too weathly to understand regular people.
    Perhaps, to make him look less elitist, he could share it with Starmer?

    Maybe they could use it on a rotor?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    The row about the Chancellor of the Exchequer travelling First on a train, with his red box, was one of the funnier ones.

    He’s a bloody Cabinet minister, of course he’s not showing his work to random people who might sit next to him.

    That said, if I were Rishi Rich’s diary secretary, I’d be doing my best to avoid taking the helicopter. It reinforces negative stereotypes around him being too weathly to understand regular people.
    Perhaps, to make him look less elitist, he could share it with Starmer?

    Maybe they could use it on a rotor?
    Yaw puns aren’t getting any better.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,028
    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
    Haven't seen it.
    I prefer Bainbridge.
    Favourite physicists? Has to be Marie Curie was polish born but french bread.
    A dough-ty woman. :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    The row about the Chancellor of the Exchequer travelling First on a train, with his red box, was one of the funnier ones.

    He’s a bloody Cabinet minister, of course he’s not showing his work to random people who might sit next to him.

    That said, if I were Rishi Rich’s diary secretary, I’d be doing my best to avoid taking the helicopter. It reinforces negative stereotypes around him being too weathly to understand regular people.
    Perhaps, to make him look less elitist, he could share it with Starmer?

    Maybe they could use it on a rotor?
    Yaw puns aren’t getting any better.
    I shall rise above that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    viewcode said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
    Haven't seen it.
    I prefer Bainbridge.
    Favourite physicists? Has to be Marie Curie was polish born but french bread.
    A dough-ty woman. :)
    I was going to try for that, but you decided to baguette.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,202
    Sandpit said:

    theakes said:

    To me all this is piffle and irrelevant.
    13 years plus almost inevitably means CHANGE.
    There is nothing the government can do about it, it is the way of the world.

    That’s what many thought in 1992.
    Major was sufficient change.

    And the key change he made- ditching the Community Charge- was the ultimate example of stripping a barnacle off the boat.

    What's Rishi offering?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
    Haven't seen it.
    I prefer Bainbridge.
    Favourite physicists? Has to be Marie Curie was polish born but french bread.
    His comment -
    "Now we're all sons of bitches."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    So far, England have looked as likely to take a wicket as TSE is to declare his admiration for Max Verstappen.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    kinabalu said:

    On topic:

    Starmer is doing just fine. Oppositions don't win elections, remember?, governments lose them and this one is doing it in spades, imo already has. Labour have a large and solid poll lead. They can withstand some swingback and still achieve a decisive majority.

    The continual negative comparison to Tony Blair is becoming a bit of a trope. Was the 97 landslide really delivered by a country fired up by enthusiasm for him and his policies rather wanting rid of the Tories? I don't think so. I bet if you polled floating voters and Con/Lab switchers back then on whether they were driven by a liking for Labour or being sick to the bones of the Conservatives you'd find it was the latter. Bit of both, obviously, but mainly the latter. Just like now.

    The most important thing Blair did was make Labour a safe (in their eyes) repository for those votes. This, plus tactical voting, secured his big win. Keir Starmer is doing exactly the same and with just as much success. On the key metrics he IS Tony Blair and he's on track for a similarly dramatic election victory.

    In the 1995 local elections Blair's New Labour got 47% and the Tories just 25%, in the 2023 locals however Starmer Labour got just 35% NEV despite the Tories on just 26%.

    That suggests while the Tories are nearly as unpopular as the mid 1990s, Starmer Labour is significantly less popular than Blair's New Labour were then

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_United_Kingdom_local_elections#:~:text=The 2023 United Kingdom local,local councils in Northern Ireland.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,526
    edited July 2023
    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    Generally agree with you on that.

    How wide is the path at that point?
    I just had a look, at sadly it's not on Google Streetview yet. AFACIR it was a dual-use path coming south off Wilford Bridge towards one of the tram stops, and had no central line to delineate what was cycle path and what was footpath.

    From memory, I'd say it was wide enough for four people to walk side-by-side. So there was plenty of room on the other side for him to pass if he had been going a little slower. He stopped beside them, and I passed him on the tramway side.

    Edit: I think it was about here. The cyclist was coming off the bridge; the people were walking towards it from the tram stop, and I was running behind them. They were on the left, the cyclist on the right.
    https://goo.gl/maps/gZLu2JoWE9oxqru58
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,202
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
    Haven't seen it.
    I prefer Bainbridge.
    Favourite physicists? Has to be Marie Curie was polish born but french bread.
    A dough-ty woman. :)
    I was going to try for that, but you decided to baguette.
    I'm going to leaven this one alone.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Douglas Carswell has written about the superior economy of Mississippi over the UK




    I just checked the life expectancy stats. UK life expectancy is 81.8

    Mississippi life expectancy is - wait for it - no, wait - a rather eye-opening 71.9

    It is lower than Colombia, Bangladesh and SYRIA
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    F1: track is dry, and the suggestion is that there might not be rain during the race.

    In which case, Lewis Hamilton might be a good each-way bet, he set up his car to be better in the dry. He starts 3rd behind Perez and Leclerc. Verstappen starts 6th after a penalty for a gearbox replacement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    That life expectancy stat in Mississippi is mind boggling. Lower than Peru, Palestine and NORTH KOREA
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    Generally agree with you on that.

    How wide is the path at that point?
    I just had a look, at sadly it's not on Google Streetview yet. AFACIR it was a dual-use path coming south off Wilford Bridge towards one of the tram stops, and had no central line to delineate what was cycle path and what was footpath.

    From memory, I'd say it was wide enough for four people to walk side-by-side. So there was plenty of room on the other side for him to pass if he had been going a little slower. He stopped beside them, and I passed him on the tramway side.
    He is a wanker. On dual use paths on summer school holiday weekends you expect to have to negotiate traffic.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929


    I prefer Nolan's take on that quotation!
    Haven't seen it.
    I prefer Bainbridge.
    Favourite physicists? Has to be Marie Curie was polish born but french bread.
    A dough-ty woman. :)
    I was going to try for that, but you decided to baguette.
    I'm going to leaven this one alone.
    Rather a rye comment.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,569
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    So far, England have looked as likely to take a wicket as TSE is to declare his admiration for Max Verstappen.

    I admire Max Verstappen.

    It takes a lot of effort to be that much of a bell end*.


    *Bell end was chosen as this is a family friendly site otherwise I would be calling him an utter Mark Reckless who deserves a red hot poker up his arse.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:


    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    If the Remain campaign had put out just one positive PPB during the campaign I think they might have won the referendum.

    Most of them were part of Bettertogether who won by not putting out one positive PPB during the campaign, and were in fact the originators of the Project Fear concept. They complacently thought they could repeat that.
    Which was a bit stupid of them given the polls in SindyRef closed markedly over the course of the campaign, suggesting actually negative campaigning was counterproductive.
    On the economic and currency risks it was negative campaigning that got No to 55%, remember Yes had a brief lead mid campaign
    I agree entirely.

    Shame it started at well north of 60%...
    As did Remain in 2016 but Remain lost unlike No perhaps as it wasn't hard hitting enough.

    Referendums almost always favour the populist side over the course of the campaign, which is why I am sceptical of referendums
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    Miklosvar said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    Generally agree with you on that.

    How wide is the path at that point?
    I just had a look, at sadly it's not on Google Streetview yet. AFACIR it was a dual-use path coming south off Wilford Bridge towards one of the tram stops, and had no central line to delineate what was cycle path and what was footpath.

    From memory, I'd say it was wide enough for four people to walk side-by-side. So there was plenty of room on the other side for him to pass if he had been going a little slower. He stopped beside them, and I passed him on the tramway side.
    He is a wanker. On dual use paths on summer school holiday weekends you expect to have to negotiate traffic.
    And if you're not willing to, you shouldn't be using them.

    When I cycle on a shared way, I start with the assumption every pedestrian has right of way and work from there. Take your time, pass slowly, and give plenty of warning especially if there are dogs or small children. If there's an oncoming cyclist, pull in and wait.

    And when they move aside for me, I always say 'thank you.'

    It's not really that hard.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    ydoethur said:

    So far, England have looked as likely to take a wicket as TSE is to declare his admiration for Max Verstappen.

    I admire Max Verstappen.
    Fuxsake, why did you have to ruin my genius strategy?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,759
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Our more strident leavers seem to get a bad case of sand in the vag whenever brexit is mentioned these days. Generally, not an indication of a signal success.

    I’d vote Leave again
    You wouldn't and everybody knows it.
    I believe standard operating practice for journalists is to write two essays on the eve of the vote, then publish the one you believe will benefit your career the most.

    Joking aside, the highly polarised positions everyone has taken post vote seems to forget just how deeply conflicted a lot of people felt before casting their vote, with many people thinking both options on the table were a bit of a curate's egg.
    Well, quite. I was basically 50/50. Heart v head. Money v democracy. I could see very plausible arguments for both sides (the Remain side were inferior at making those plausible arguments). Also arguments against both sides

    In the end I titled, personally, 52/48 towards Leave, so I voted Leave. Now I’m probably about 55/45. I’ve got slightly LeaviER
    Stridently 55/45.
    I started out about 55% Leave. In principle I was leave, but, gosh, a big decision isn't it? Change is scary. Now I'm about 90% stay out. Post Brexit negotiations, covid, and Ukraine all pushed me leavier. The short term economic hit has been far less than I feared. The risks of membership only appear to have got greater. And going full Euro-and Schengen - which appears to be the only option - would be insane.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,288

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    Not when it is as quick to take a train or drive, just out of touch billionaire Tory normality.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,903
    edited July 2023

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    It's the same kind of idiot "thinking" that attacks the PM or other senior ministers for being driven half a mile in a luxurious armoured Jaguar, as though they have any real say in the matter.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    It's the same kind of idiot "thinking" that attacks the PM or other senior ministers for being driven half a mile in an luxurious armoured Jaguar, as though they have any real say in the matter.
    John Prescott using one each for himself and his wife still seems excessive though.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,569
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    So far, England have looked as likely to take a wicket as TSE is to declare his admiration for Max Verstappen.

    I admire Max Verstappen.
    Fuxsake, why did you have to ruin my genius strategy?
    I may have laid England this morning.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    So far, England have looked as likely to take a wicket as TSE is to declare his admiration for Max Verstappen.

    I admire Max Verstappen.
    Fuxsake, why did you have to ruin my genius strategy?
    I may have laid England this morning.
    There are times when the good of the planet trumps the good of your book Mr Eagles.

    Although I don't think there will be much more play today, they're only about 300 away now and looking much too comfortable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    So far, England have looked as likely to take a wicket as TSE is to declare his admiration for Max Verstappen.

    I admire Max Verstappen.
    Fuxsake, why did you have to ruin my genius strategy?
    They're going to knock the runs off in a day, aren't they ?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,903
    Leon said:

    That life expectancy stat in Mississippi is mind boggling. Lower than Peru, Palestine and NORTH KOREA

    I'm pretty sure Carswell won't be living and working in an average bit of Mississippi. America looks great if you only look at the richest bits.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,288
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    Nippy used a helicopter. It didn't help her do anything quicker or better.

    And the problem for Richi is that he can afford his own helicopter. And Starmer can't.
    Nippy at least was election campaigning and not charging the public and Rishi does not pay for the helicopter it is us that pay it DUMBO.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,345
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    So far, England have looked as likely to take a wicket as TSE is to declare his admiration for Max Verstappen.

    I admire Max Verstappen.
    Fuxsake, why did you have to ruin my genius strategy?
    They're going to knock the runs off in a day, aren't they ?
    No, because it will piss it down this afternoon.

    But they look set to knock them off tomorrow.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,129
    A
    ydoethur said:

    Miklosvar said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    Generally agree with you on that.

    How wide is the path at that point?
    I just had a look, at sadly it's not on Google Streetview yet. AFACIR it was a dual-use path coming south off Wilford Bridge towards one of the tram stops, and had no central line to delineate what was cycle path and what was footpath.

    From memory, I'd say it was wide enough for four people to walk side-by-side. So there was plenty of room on the other side for him to pass if he had been going a little slower. He stopped beside them, and I passed him on the tramway side.
    He is a wanker. On dual use paths on summer school holiday weekends you expect to have to negotiate traffic.
    And if you're not willing to, you shouldn't be using them.

    When I cycle on a shared way, I start with the assumption every pedestrian has right of way and work from there. Take your time, pass slowly, and give plenty of warning especially if there are dogs or small children. If there's an oncoming cyclist, pull in and wait.

    And when they move aside for me, I always say 'thank you.'

    It's not really that hard.
    As ever, it’s the human factor.

    A polite, considerate HGV driver is one thing…

    A toss pot road hog, in jogging shoes, is still a toss pot road hog.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    ydoethur said:

    Miklosvar said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    Tres said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lib Dem councillor suggests he’d gas anti-Ulez campaigners
    Michael Tarling says he would ‘happily fill the room with carbon monoxide’ in response to post about meeting against new zone"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/07/29/lib-dem-suggests-he-would-gas-anti-ulez-campaigners/

    Bromley mum’s window smashed after making ULEZ post online
    https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/23615444.bromley-mums-window-smashed-making-ulez-post-online/
    Yep, you have to be a bit cautious with the anti-ULEZ folk. There is someone in Edinburgh going around with an angle-grinder and cutting down cameras, and some of the cycle campaigners have had physical/death threats.
    I ran along the Notts tram route from Clifton into the city centre yesterday. Near the river, three people were walking along the path; two side-by-side, one in front, in the same direction as me. A pepperami in lycra came zooming from ahead, and had to slow down to pass the two people. He stopped and argued with them.

    I reckon he had been doing over 20 MPH as he approached (this is a WAG, but it was fast). There was plenty of space to pass if he had been going at a slower speed.

    Yes, there are a problem with cars and car drivers. But there is a serious attitude problem amongst parts of the cycling lobby as well.
    Generally agree with you on that.

    How wide is the path at that point?
    I just had a look, at sadly it's not on Google Streetview yet. AFACIR it was a dual-use path coming south off Wilford Bridge towards one of the tram stops, and had no central line to delineate what was cycle path and what was footpath.

    From memory, I'd say it was wide enough for four people to walk side-by-side. So there was plenty of room on the other side for him to pass if he had been going a little slower. He stopped beside them, and I passed him on the tramway side.
    He is a wanker. On dual use paths on summer school holiday weekends you expect to have to negotiate traffic.
    And if you're not willing to, you shouldn't be using them.

    When I cycle on a shared way, I start with the assumption every pedestrian has right of way and work from there. Take your time, pass slowly, and give plenty of warning especially if there are dogs or small children. If there's an oncoming cyclist, pull in and wait.

    And when they move aside for me, I always say 'thank you.'

    It's not really that hard.
    But in his head he is a TDF star trying to stay in zone 2 or something
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Trump’s PAC spent over $40 million in first half of 2023 on legal costs for former president and others in investigations, as prosecutors ask about possible conflicts of interest
    https://twitter.com/PhilipRucker/status/1685421469721874432
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,288
    glw said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    It's the same kind of idiot "thinking" that attacks the PM or other senior ministers for being driven half a mile in a luxurious armoured Jaguar, as though they have any real say in the matter.
    Tories all jumping out of their pools/stables to support Rishi rinsing the public rather than having to be within 5 yards of a pleb.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    The row about the Chancellor of the Exchequer travelling First on a train, with his red box, was one of the funnier ones.

    He’s a bloody Cabinet minister, of course he’s not showing his work to random people who might sit next to him.

    That said, if I were Rishi Rich’s diary secretary, I’d be doing my best to avoid taking the helicopter. It reinforces negative stereotypes around him being too weathly to understand regular people.
    There is nothing to "avoid". There is nowhere that the little shit needs to go that is only accessible by helicopter.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823

    Starmer's coalition lasts until the day after the election.

    I don't see any evidence this is solid or good for 10+ years.

    Only if the Tories detoxify themselves, which doesn't seem probable.

    It took eight years between losing power in 1997 and David Cameron being elected in 2005 for the Tories to start thinking properly about why they were toxic and how to detoxify themselves.

    It took ten years between losing power in 2010 and Keir Starmer being elected in 2020 for Labour to make the same journey.

    And even after a party stops being repulsive to the voters, you still have to wait for the next election which is probably a good few years afterwards.

    So a decade in power for Labour looks like a rather small-c conservative estimate based on recent history.
    'Detoxofication' is overrated and seen in the light of Cameron or Blair when John Smith in 1997 or even David Davis in 2010 may have won anyway even if by a lesser margin.

    It also ignores the economy. If the economy is doing poorly then the opposition can lead polls no matter how extreme they are.

    Remember Thatcher was seen as too rightwing and unelectable in 1975 but still won in 1979 at a time of high inflation and strikes.

    Foot too was the most leftwing Labour leader ever before Corbyn but even he had poll leads in 1980 and 1981 at a time of high unemployment
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    The row about the Chancellor of the Exchequer travelling First on a train, with his red box, was one of the funnier ones.

    He’s a bloody Cabinet minister, of course he’s not showing his work to random people who might sit next to him.

    That said, if I were Rishi Rich’s diary secretary, I’d be doing my best to avoid taking the helicopter. It reinforces negative stereotypes around him being too weathly to understand regular people.
    There is nothing to "avoid". There is nowhere that the little shit needs to go that is only accessible by helicopter.
    Some idiot booked him meetings 100 miles apart with an hour between them, and they didn’t have the option of using you as his driver.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile, in Conservatives only talking to themselves news, here's the Prime Minister's special happy face.

    Talking about freedom, sat in Margaret Thatcher’s old Rover.

    Earlier I spoke to @Telegraph about how important cars are for families to live their lives. It’s something anti-motorist Labour just don’t seem to get.

    And it’s why I’m reviewing anti-car schemes across the country.


    A campaign to appeal to car drivers fronted by a man who would rather take a helicopter.

    And doesn't know how petrol pumps work.

    Genius...
    The 'helicopter' jibes seem ridiculous to me. When Starmer's PM, he'll be taking helicopters as well. It makes sense for someone who has to run the country, and often has to be in different places quickly.

    And when Starmer does take helicopters, the Conservatives will throw jibes at him about it. It's all ridiculous.

    Being PM is not an ordinary job. And if going by helicopter allows them to do it quicker and better, then so be it.
    The row about the Chancellor of the Exchequer travelling First on a train, with his red box, was one of the funnier ones.

    He’s a bloody Cabinet minister, of course he’s not showing his work to random people who might sit next to him.

    That said, if I were Rishi Rich’s diary secretary, I’d be doing my best to avoid taking the helicopter. It reinforces negative stereotypes around him being too weathly to understand regular people.
    There is nothing to "avoid". There is nowhere that the little shit needs to go that is only accessible by helicopter.
    I fully expect his next PPB to be from an oil platform.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    glw said:

    Leon said:

    That life expectancy stat in Mississippi is mind boggling. Lower than Peru, Palestine and NORTH KOREA

    I'm pretty sure Carswell won't be living and working in an average bit of Mississippi. America looks great if you only look at the richest bits.
    When MP for Clacton he lived in posher Frinton I believe, not Jaywick
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    Leon said:

    Douglas Carswell has written about the superior economy of Mississippi over the UK




    I just checked the life expectancy stats. UK life expectancy is 81.8

    Mississippi life expectancy is - wait for it - no, wait - a rather eye-opening 71.9

    It is lower than Colombia, Bangladesh and SYRIA

    Average house price in Mississippi is only $162,000 but in the UK is £286,000

    https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-house-price-state/

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/april2023#:~:text=Average UK house prices increased,recent peak in September 2022.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694
    Leon said:

    Douglas Carswell has written about the superior economy of Mississippi over the UK




    I just checked the life expectancy stats. UK life expectancy is 81.8

    Mississippi life expectancy is - wait for it - no, wait - a rather eye-opening 71.9

    It is lower than Colombia, Bangladesh and SYRIA

    Part of my wife's family are from Mississippi, a cousin of hers on that side just suffered a stillbirth - https://www.wlbt.com/2022/08/06/mississippi-moms-suffer-another-grim-statistic-nations-highest-rate-stillbirths/
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,242
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Douglas Carswell has written about the superior economy of Mississippi over the UK




    I just checked the life expectancy stats. UK life expectancy is 81.8

    Mississippi life expectancy is - wait for it - no, wait - a rather eye-opening 71.9

    It is lower than Colombia, Bangladesh and SYRIA

    Average house price in Mississippi is only $162,000 but in the UK is £286,000

    https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-house-price-state/

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/april2023#:~:text=Average UK house prices increased,recent peak in September 2022.
    Furthermore the average house in Mississippi is made of ticky-tacky and in the event of a tornado would make landfall in Alabama.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Sandpit said:

    F1: track is dry, and the suggestion is that there might not be rain during the race.

    In which case, Lewis Hamilton might be a good each-way bet, he set up his car to be better in the dry. He starts 3rd behind Perez and Leclerc. Verstappen starts 6th after a penalty for a gearbox replacement.

    I was hoping it would be wet because the FIA haven't ever worked out that DRS isn't actually required at Spa.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    If you’re looking for a good budget holiday in the sun I think I’ve found it


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/africa/egypt/adrere-amellal-hotel-egyptian-desert-mud-hut/

    Just £7,150 per person excluding flights. Go now before they raise prices
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    An election with the theme Tory vs Anti-Tory is good for the Lib Dems.

    Labour inclined voters will be willing to vote tactically for the Lib Dems. There will be less stickiness of the Labour vote.

    The messaging to identify the appropriate Tory challenger in each seat will be important.

    Green voters will be voting Green to send a message.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Douglas Carswell has written about the superior economy of Mississippi over the UK




    I just checked the life expectancy stats. UK life expectancy is 81.8

    Mississippi life expectancy is - wait for it - no, wait - a rather eye-opening 71.9

    It is lower than Colombia, Bangladesh and SYRIA

    Part of my wife's family are from Mississippi, a cousin of hers on that side just suffered a stillbirth - https://www.wlbt.com/2022/08/06/mississippi-moms-suffer-another-grim-statistic-nations-highest-rate-stillbirths/
    Mississippi is fucked in multiple ways. The problems in Jackson alone are astounding for any Brit. Horrendous murder rate. Basic utilities failing
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,395

    In 2022, police unions, right-wing orgs and big tech joined forces to recall San Francisco’s district attorney Chesa Boudin.

    A year since he was replaced with someone who was "tough on crime," here are SF's crime stats:

    Vehicle Theft: ⬆️ 10.5%
    Homicide: ⬆️ 23%
    Robbery: ⬆️ 13%

    https://twitter.com/robertgreenwald/status/1684708632150302720

    Do we take it that the other crimes declined, given that they're not mentioned?
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,284
    I’m kind of surprised Leon hasn’t jumped on the room temperature superconductor hype train yet. Did I miss it?

    My twitter feed is abuzz with analysis & speculation: It may yet turn out to be a damp squib, but hope springs eternal & this time around they’ve actually published the synthesis, so it will be replicated one way or another within the next week or two. Can’t wait!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Phil said:

    I’m kind of surprised Leon hasn’t jumped on the room temperature superconductor hype train yet. Did I miss it?

    My twitter feed is abuzz with analysis & speculation: It may yet turn out to be a damp squib, but hope springs eternal & this time around they’ve actually published the synthesis, so it will be replicated one way or another within the next week or two. Can’t wait!

    Bit busy with aliens, AI, the cricket and BEING IN UKRAINE

    TBH
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,028
    Leon said:

    If you’re looking for a good budget holiday in the sun I think I’ve found it


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/africa/egypt/adrere-amellal-hotel-egyptian-desert-mud-hut/

    Just £7,150 per person excluding flights. Go now before they raise prices

    "budget"

    Coral Compostela Golf, Playa de las Americas, Tenerife
    7 nights, Self Catering, £689 total price for two adults

    https://www.thomascook.com/holidays/canary-islands/tenerife/playa-de-las-americas/coral-compostela-golf-5308/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,363
    edited July 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Anecdote alert.

    On Friday I went to the Game Fair at Ragley Hall. So on Thursday we stayed at Avoncote near Henley in Arden. My wife wanted an early evening visit to John Lewis, so we ventured into Solihull. A tail of two towns really. On the Touchwood shopping centre, where John Lewis is sited you could buy yourself high end Miele consumer electronics or a Polestar electric car from their own exclusive retail spaces. Old Solihull was a little bit tired. Not helped by House of Fraser closing, nonetheless one could smell the money. On the way back to the Hotel we stopped at the Boot in Lapworth, the car park was like the Geneva Motor show and the place was buzzing. All the little towns and villages around Henley looked like they were doing very, very well. I thought to myself, there is no way the Conservatives are going to lose the next GE.

    The game fair also oozed conspicuous consumption. If this is England, what's not to like? I had a table booked in Ross-on-Wye for the evening, so had a few hours to kill. We decided to stop at Evesham, which during my childhood was a day out by the river and an idyllic place. Not any more. There was real and obvious poverty, obesity and in broad daylight low level drug dealing from the passenger seat of an old Seat Leon. It wasn't much better in Upton upon Severn and Great Malvern. All solid Tory areas where decay is prevalent. If the Conservatives win this election which to my mind seems likely, with more of the same, they will surely lose the next.

    There have always been some grim areas of Malvern, especially the area around Malvern Link. I used to work in Dyson Perrins school many years ago and it was easy to spot the social problems.

    I suspect the difference there is wealthy people are no longer coming in to pump up the money as spa towns are no longer fashionable.
    The Link isn't too bad these days. Belle Vue Terrace and Worcester Road, opposite the Foley are very tired, and that used to be really nice. My first girlfriend went to Dyson Perrin's School (I lived in Cradley- married in the same church as Graeme Hick)! Ledbury children who failed the 11 plus would often go there or the Chase which were Comprehensive whilst Herefordshire was not to avoid the grimness of Mr Gray's Ledbury Secondary. Conversely posh people from the wrong side of the Wyche came to the Grammar School instead of the Chase.

    Evesham however was quite shockingly grim on Friday. Pershore on the other hand is quite pleasant. The contrast between Henley in Arden and Evesham in the next County was marked. Conspicuous consumption plays conspicuous poverty.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,548
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    If you’re looking for a good budget holiday in the sun I think I’ve found it


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/africa/egypt/adrere-amellal-hotel-egyptian-desert-mud-hut/

    Just £7,150 per person excluding flights. Go now before they raise prices

    That makes Burj-al-Arab sound like the budget hotel option!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Phil said:

    I’m kind of surprised Leon hasn’t jumped on the room temperature superconductor hype train yet. Did I miss it?

    My twitter feed is abuzz with analysis & speculation: It may yet turn out to be a damp squib, but hope springs eternal & this time around they’ve actually published the synthesis, so it will be replicated one way or another within the next week or two. Can’t wait!

    Falsifiable science isn't really his thing.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,026
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Douglas Carswell has written about the superior economy of Mississippi over the UK




    I just checked the life expectancy stats. UK life expectancy is 81.8

    Mississippi life expectancy is - wait for it - no, wait - a rather eye-opening 71.9

    It is lower than Colombia, Bangladesh and SYRIA

    Average house price in Mississippi is only $162,000 but in the UK is £286,000

    https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-house-price-state/

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/april2023#:~:text=Average UK house prices increased,recent peak in September 2022.
    Also the houses are doubtless twice the size, so you get far more for your money.

    Our housing is the definition of masochistic self-help.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    In 2022, police unions, right-wing orgs and big tech joined forces to recall San Francisco’s district attorney Chesa Boudin.

    A year since he was replaced with someone who was "tough on crime," here are SF's crime stats:

    Vehicle Theft: ⬆️ 10.5%
    Homicide: ⬆️ 23%
    Robbery: ⬆️ 13%

    https://twitter.com/robertgreenwald/status/1684708632150302720

    Do we take it that the other crimes declined, given that they're not mentioned?
    "Other than that, how did you enjoy the play Mrs Lincoln?"
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,026
    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Douglas Carswell has written about the superior economy of Mississippi over the UK




    I just checked the life expectancy stats. UK life expectancy is 81.8

    Mississippi life expectancy is - wait for it - no, wait - a rather eye-opening 71.9

    It is lower than Colombia, Bangladesh and SYRIA

    Average house price in Mississippi is only $162,000 but in the UK is £286,000

    https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-house-price-state/

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/april2023#:~:text=Average UK house prices increased,recent peak in September 2022.
    Also the houses are doubtless twice the size, so you get far more for your money.

    Our housing is the definition of masochistic self-help.
    ... self-harm - damn autocorrect...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,213
    Nigelb said:

    Turns out Oppenheimer's most famous quote probably wasn't.

    1: It took me a while to hunt down my copy (buried three stacks deep) of Arthur Ryder’s 1929 version of the Bhagavad Gita which Oppenheimer presumably quoted from. “I am become death, destroyer of worlds” isn’t in there. “Death I am, and my present task Destruction” is.
    https://twitter.com/curiouswavefn/status/1685311747245436929

    So he checked one possible source?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Douglas Carswell has written about the superior economy of Mississippi over the UK




    I just checked the life expectancy stats. UK life expectancy is 81.8

    Mississippi life expectancy is - wait for it - no, wait - a rather eye-opening 71.9

    It is lower than Colombia, Bangladesh and SYRIA

    Average house price in Mississippi is only $162,000 but in the UK is £286,000

    https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/research/average-house-price-state/

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/housepriceindex/april2023#:~:text=Average UK house prices increased,recent peak in September 2022.
    Also the houses are doubtless twice the size, so you get far more for your money.

    Our housing is the definition of masochistic self-help.
    ... self-harm - damn autocorrect...
    I quite liked it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,823
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    If you’re looking for a good budget holiday in the sun I think I’ve found it


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/africa/egypt/adrere-amellal-hotel-egyptian-desert-mud-hut/

    Just £7,150 per person excluding flights. Go now before they raise prices

    £7,150 per person excluding flights? What is this? Budget holidays for residents of Kensington and Chelsea, Mayfair and Belgravia? Looks very pleasant otherwise if you can afford it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,092
    At Northampton M1 services, which is every bit as good as I remember it. Nothing flashy but it absolutely does the job.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    kinabalu said:

    At Northampton M1 services, which is every bit as good as I remember it. Nothing flashy but it absolutely does the job.

    #accidentalpartridge
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,166
    kinabalu said:

    At Northampton M1 services, which is every bit as good as I remember it. Nothing flashy but it absolutely does the job.

    Why did they change its name from Rothersthorpe?
This discussion has been closed.