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The polling that should worry LAB majority punters – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    ...

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    Leon probably loves St Pancras. Yet the building of St Pancras cost the Midland Railway so much, that the northern extension to Manchester a decade later was done on a shoestring. Manchester Central therefore had a brilliant overall roof, but a load of 'temporary' wooden buildings - a wooden 1970s Kings Cross - in front of it. Which were so temporary that they lasted until the closure of the station, eighty years later.
    I have to admit, I also love St Pancras. And Bristol Temple Meads. And the ridiculous Aberystwyth Station. And the Kilsby Vents. And I'm sure I would have stood in awe before the Euston Arch.

    I also consider Birmingham New Street, Gloucester, Euston and Stafford stations to be shitheaps, because they are.

    It's just I love actual railways slightly more than I love good architecture, and wish we could have run them less extravagantly so they made more money. That way, they might have avoided the clutches of the odious pen-pushers of the DfT.
    GWR's Snow Hill Station was stunning, so they razed it to the ground. I remember remnants of the carcass but not the station. New Street never looked like a station in my day just an appendage to a shopping centre.

    http://disused-stations.org.uk/b/birmingham_snow_hill/28_snow_hill_frontage_1925_geoffrey_skelsey.jpg


    That’s lovely and sad. But in the USA they demolished many dozens of stations easily as handsome as that. Beautiful gothic and classical temples. Entire websites are devoted to them

    😓
  • Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    "Charity" shops are mostly a tax dodge anyway.

    Tell Oxfam style shops to pay NNDR on the same basis as every other shop and they would largely vanish.

    Taxes should be low, fair and consistently paid by everyone. Favoured groups not paying their taxes means they have to be higher on everyone else and completely distorts the market.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,125
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    They really don’t want you to hang around. Not even for a pee. Once you understand that it all makes sense. Even the intense ugliness

    Look. I’ve located the actual entrance (where the ground floor lift is). What does that dark scary void say to you? What would it say on a dank January evening?





    Best to buy a car xD
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    "Charity" shops are mostly a tax dodge anyway.

    Tell Oxfam style shops to pay NNDR on the same basis as every other shop and they would largely vanish.

    Taxes should be low, fair and consistently paid by everyone. Favoured groups not paying their taxes means they have to be higher on everyone else and completely distorts the market.
    It is not even about tax, the only time most go to a high street is because they are on there way somewhere else, I have to goto a high street because I use a bus, I get a bus there then I get a bus out to where I actually want to be. I am not going to go shop there. Like most people I can get all I need outside a high street at lower price and with better choice. The only people who use high streets these days are old people.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,981

    A

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    They really don’t want you to hang around. Not even for a pee. Once you understand that it all makes sense. Even the intense ugliness

    Look. I’ve located the actual entrance (where the ground floor lift is). What does that dark scary void say to you? What would it say on a dank January evening?





    Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!

    Actually, that’s unfair. The Empire had serious taste in design. Star Destroyers look awesome.

    Though H&S was not on the priority list. Railings at the edge of bottomless abysses? Controls accessible without free climbing?
    You see this is where a bit of frivolity could really work. Design the train station to look like the side of the Death Star, or the Tardis, or Elsa's ice palace. Would make this particular Thanet suburb a landmark.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    That's a gross exaggeration, but I understand the irritation at all the charity shops - especially given that so many of them are just bric-a-brac outlets full of complete tat. You wonder who even buys stuff from the shelves full of naff old pictures, glass and crockery that looks like it was donated by people clearing the homes of dead elderly relatives who couldn't bring themselves to throw it all in the skip, let alone how they make enough money from it to be worth the bother.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    TimS said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    They really don’t want you to hang around. Not even for a pee. Once you understand that it all makes sense. Even the intense ugliness

    Look. I’ve located the actual entrance (where the ground floor lift is). What does that dark scary void say to you? What would it say on a dank January evening?





    Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!

    Actually, that’s unfair. The Empire had serious taste in design. Star Destroyers look awesome.

    Though H&S was not on the priority list. Railings at the edge of bottomless abysses? Controls accessible without free climbing?
    You see this is where a bit of frivolity could really work. Design the train station to look like the side of the Death Star, or the Tardis, or Elsa's ice palace. Would make this particular Thanet suburb a landmark.
    I actually think the station looks fine when compared to the shit stain of sloughs fairly new bus station
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    They really don’t want you to hang around. Not even for a pee. Once you understand that it all makes sense. Even the intense ugliness

    Look. I’ve located the actual entrance (where the ground floor lift is). What does that dark scary void say to you? What would it say on a dank January evening?





    Best to buy a car xD
    Ironically, that death void/entrance/vagina dentata will be the IDEAL place to have a quick pee when you get off the station (which has no toilets) and you’re desperate

    So the whole station will become a urinal within weeks. Result!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,854
    Afternoon all :)

    Once again I find myself in complete disagreement with the thrust of this argument.

    OGH has selectively chosen one poll - Redfield & Wilton last evening had 56% of the 2019 Conservative voting cohort remaining loyal, 19% Don't Know, 14% going to Labour and 6% to Reform.

    Now, that 19% represents about 9% of the electorate so not an inconsiderable number and half the R&K Don't Knows. The second largest contingent of DKs are those who say they didn't vote last time.

    The legacy of 1992 hangs over 30 years on - those who were psychologically scarred by that experience may hold the view the Conservatives will find something, anything, to bring the waverers back and in the polling booth while the intention going in may be to vote Labour or LD, the pencil will hover and then head back to the blue, the deed will be done and the voter will exit.

    Perhaps - that's not what happened in 1997. It may be a number of the DKs will abstain - that won't bother Starmer and Labour too much while others may vote tactically or wastefully. To assume 100% of 2019 Conservative voting DKs will vote Conservative next time is steetching credibility a bit.

    Last night's polling continued to show big Labour leads and big Labour swings in England but Sunak is right - the election is not a done deal, I'm sure Starmer will agree. Not a single vote has been cast and the Conservatives have a big majority but big swings in General Elections aren't the novelty they once were and if tactical voting can gain any traction (plenty of evidence in S&A and S&F last week and perhaps U&SR as well) whatever damage uniform UNS might incur will be compounded.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Whenever Brits like us lament the loss of beautiful stations and the Euston Arch, we should remember that the Americans contrived to demolish THIS



  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Are you saying the platforms have no canopies?! They are entirely exposed to the weather? Surely not
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    pigeon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    That's a gross exaggeration, but I understand the irritation at all the charity shops - especially given that so many of them are just bric-a-brac outlets full of complete tat. You wonder who even buys stuff from the shelves full of naff old pictures, glass and crockery that looks like it was donated by people clearing the homes of dead elderly relatives who couldn't bring themselves to throw it all in the skip, let alone how they make enough money from it to be worth the bother.
    Actdually, the turnover in my local Oxfam is pretty good from what I can see, so much of it must be bought. It's a useful recycling facility - lots of perfectly useable stuff, clothes, small furniture, crockery and cutlery finds new homes that way. I gave mine a complete run of 8000 Plus (the PCW mag) when I upgraded to PCs years ago and it disappeared within a day, for instance. And the specialist furniture and book shops in big cities are seriously worth exploring.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Anyway, on topic, however awful the Tories are we shouldn't underestimate the probability of them bein rescued from a well deserved oblivion by the grey vote. That, combined with the lack of enthusiasm for the alternative, could well lead to a surprise outcome. A Tory performance above 250 seats and a significant drop in turnout both seem live possibilities to me.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Aren't those spaced out whitish thingies shelters on the platform? aerial view here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,805

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.
    At a number of tube stations in London, staff have been official organised to do gardening stuff. Some platforms have fair sized potted palm trees and some really nice flowers.

    The completely boxed in, brick staircase would get some negative comments from experts in women friendly architecture. Which is a serious thing.
    Gardening at tube stations was traditionally done voluntarily by staff.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    They really don’t want you to hang around. Not even for a pee. Once you understand that it all makes sense. Even the intense ugliness

    Look. I’ve located the actual entrance (where the ground floor lift is). What does that dark scary void say to you? What would it say on a dank January evening?





    Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!

    Actually, that’s unfair. The Empire had serious taste in design. Star Destroyers look awesome.

    Though H&S was not on the priority list. Railings at the edge of bottomless abysses? Controls accessible without free climbing?
    You see this is where a bit of frivolity could really work. Design the train station to look like the side of the Death Star, or the Tardis, or Elsa's ice palace. Would make this particular Thanet suburb a landmark.
    I actually think the station looks fine when compared to the shit stain of sloughs fairly new bus station
    https://architypereview.com/project/slough-bus-station/

    Got a cafe and waiting area at Slough, though I go off it very quickly when I read this

    "When the Heart of Slough master plan is complete the bus station will be surrounded by five 8 to 14 storey office buildings. The Bus Station is an urban object with the design considered from all aspects, passengers underneath and office workers viewing from above. Its sculptural form and the design of the hard landscaping will provide a counterpoint to the rectilinear corporate architecture. It will create an identifiable place within Slough that is a celebration of public transport and is a memorable first and last impression of Slough."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,947
    edited July 2023
    BBC News - Nigel Farage: NatWest boss admits 'serious' error in bank closure row

    The boss of NatWest has admitted a "serious error of judgement" in discussing Nigel Farage's relationship with the bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66307353

    But the board aren't going to fire her....how can you have the boss.of a bank who can't keep their trap shut about the finances of a client.....its then open season on any employee who wants to do the same.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Aren't those spaced out whitish thingies shelters on the platform? aerial view here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station

    Well, they're not exactly PROPER canopies are they? Even Reading Green Park has proper canopies.

    I went to Ramsgate in May, took some shots of Thanet PW from a passing train:



  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Are you saying the platforms have no canopies?! They are entirely exposed to the weather? Surely not
    Almost, just a couple of bus shelters, see pictures above.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Aren't those spaced out whitish thingies shelters on the platform? aerial view here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station

    Well, they're not exactly PROPER canopies are they? Even Reading Green Park has proper canopies.

    I went to Ramsgate in May, took some shots of Thanet PW from a passing train:



    Oh! I thought the shelters were each the full size of each re-entrant in the barrier. That's insulting. Imagine piling into that and someone starts smoking and someone else starts coughing or talking to the clouds or, indeed, pissing in the corner (hopefully the outside one).

    Point raised and decisively resolved!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    The Ye of 2024? Interesting as he is (at least currently) a WAY better shill for Trump that Kanye West ever was.

    Sad but true.
    Nah

    the Democrats are Trumps best shills as they want him as the GOP candidate.
    NOT THIS DEMOCRAT. And I am FAR from alone.
    It's a conservative habit to explain to liberals what they're thinking.
    Despite all the practice, they never got very good at it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Apologies for yet more Super-Blurro-Vision pics, here's Brent Cross West (scheduled for October) from a passing Thameslink train last Monday:







  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Carnyx said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    A

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    They really don’t want you to hang around. Not even for a pee. Once you understand that it all makes sense. Even the intense ugliness

    Look. I’ve located the actual entrance (where the ground floor lift is). What does that dark scary void say to you? What would it say on a dank January evening?





    Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!

    Actually, that’s unfair. The Empire had serious taste in design. Star Destroyers look awesome.

    Though H&S was not on the priority list. Railings at the edge of bottomless abysses? Controls accessible without free climbing?
    You see this is where a bit of frivolity could really work. Design the train station to look like the side of the Death Star, or the Tardis, or Elsa's ice palace. Would make this particular Thanet suburb a landmark.
    I actually think the station looks fine when compared to the shit stain of sloughs fairly new bus station
    https://architypereview.com/project/slough-bus-station/

    Got a cafe and waiting area at Slough, though I go off it very quickly when I read this

    "When the Heart of Slough master plan is complete the bus station will be surrounded by five 8 to 14 storey office buildings. The Bus Station is an urban object with the design considered from all aspects, passengers underneath and office workers viewing from above. Its sculptural form and the design of the hard landscaping will provide a counterpoint to the rectilinear corporate architecture. It will create an identifiable place within Slough that is a celebration of public transport and is a memorable first and last impression of Slough."
    Apart from it doesn't work for customers. The sperm tails are too high to protect from anything except vertical rain and how often is there no wind. So you stand and wait and get soaked everytime it rains and shiver in the wind as there are no windbreaks....looks pretty I guess but from the point of view of customers fulfills little of what they want
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    Nigelb said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    The Ye of 2024? Interesting as he is (at least currently) a WAY better shill for Trump that Kanye West ever was.

    Sad but true.
    Nah

    the Democrats are Trumps best shills as they want him as the GOP candidate.
    NOT THIS DEMOCRAT. And I am FAR from alone.
    It's a conservative habit to explain to liberals what they're thinking.
    Despite all the practice, they never got very good at it.
    And vice versa of course.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Aren't those spaced out whitish thingies shelters on the platform? aerial view here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station

    Well, they're not exactly PROPER canopies are they? Even Reading Green Park has proper canopies.

    I went to Ramsgate in May, took some shots of Thanet PW from a passing train:



    Oh! I thought the shelters were each the full size of each re-entrant in the barrier. That's insulting. Imagine piling into that and someone starts smoking and someone else starts coughing or talking to the clouds or, indeed, pissing in the corner (hopefully the outside one).

    Point raised and decisively resolved!
    Was at Mallaig station the other day in the rain. It has exactly one of those bus shelter things for the whole platform and as far as I know, the whole station.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    Texas A&M suspended a professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) during her lecture.
    https://twitter.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1683872835201105920
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Both Reading Green Park (open May) and Brent Cross West (upcoming) have decent length canopies.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,806
    I know the American right are not very politically correct or tolerant of quotas in the workplace but still surprised that Musk would go quite this far in tackling the problem of women working in IT. "And soon we shall bid adieu to the Twitter brand and, gradually, all the birds."
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,854
    Evening all :)

    Another very strong poll for AfD (21.5%) and they are now a clear second to the CDU/CSU.

    The question is whether Merz will take a Nelsonesque view and turn a blind eye to them or whether he sees them as prospective supporters of a Union minority Government.

    Will AfD be the German version of the Sweden Democrats and support a centre-right minority or will they end up like VOX who had a poor election on Sunday in Spain? There's still a long way before the next German election (late 2025) so it'll be interesting to see how Merz takes his new line of co-operating with the AfD locally.

    He might have some Party management issues as some elements of the CDU are strongly opposed to AfD.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,020

    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
    Change is often necessary but picking someone simply as they are a disruptive influence is a disaster without accompanying political skills and intellect.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Miklosvar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Aren't those spaced out whitish thingies shelters on the platform? aerial view here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station

    Well, they're not exactly PROPER canopies are they? Even Reading Green Park has proper canopies.

    I went to Ramsgate in May, took some shots of Thanet PW from a passing train:



    Oh! I thought the shelters were each the full size of each re-entrant in the barrier. That's insulting. Imagine piling into that and someone starts smoking and someone else starts coughing or talking to the clouds or, indeed, pissing in the corner (hopefully the outside one).

    Point raised and decisively resolved!
    Was at Mallaig station the other day in the rain. It has exactly one of those bus shelter things for the whole platform and as far as I know, the whole station.
    I went to Mallaig in September 2019! Luckily it wasn't raining, but it was pouring when I did the Oban Line two days earlier :lol:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    Miklosvar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Aren't those spaced out whitish thingies shelters on the platform? aerial view here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station

    Well, they're not exactly PROPER canopies are they? Even Reading Green Park has proper canopies.

    I went to Ramsgate in May, took some shots of Thanet PW from a passing train:



    Oh! I thought the shelters were each the full size of each re-entrant in the barrier. That's insulting. Imagine piling into that and someone starts smoking and someone else starts coughing or talking to the clouds or, indeed, pissing in the corner (hopefully the outside one).

    Point raised and decisively resolved!
    Was at Mallaig station the other day in the rain. It has exactly one of those bus shelter things for the whole platform and as far as I know, the whole station.
    Sure, but it has a roofed ticket office and concourse on the same level as the platform.

    Annoyingly it had a canopy over a decent chunk of the platform but it got tatty and taken down to save on refurbishment, presumably - back in the 70s when the future of th eline was in doubt.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.

    I mean trees and canopies in front of the station. The elevation I have provided is the FRONT of the station ffs. Not some ugly loading bay at the back

    And yes, amazingly, I like St Pancras

    I actually get your point about cost. If this station had a budget of £1m I’d say well ok. There wasn’t much they could do

    £35 fucking million. To produce THAT

    Also, why on earth are you defending it? Aren’t you a railway geek? People will support railways if they are beautiful or fast or uplifting or impressive, not if they are deliberately depressing, joyless, mean and off putting

    Ditto all developments
    There is a wider question about why *any* infrastructure projects in the UK cost so much. But if you look at the cost of opening stations on operating railway lines, they're always mahoosively expensive. Partly for the reasons I've gone into below.

    Now, if you want to volunteer to work (get your hands dirty) to build a new station in a *dangerous* environment, feel free to argue for that right. If you want others to build stuff in a dangerous environment so you can save 1/2p on your tax, I might suggest you go to Bakhmut.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,020
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    It might sound harsh, but if there has been a sea change when it comes to high street usage it might not be possible to turn it around.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Both Reading Green Park (open May) and Brent Cross West (upcoming) have decent length canopies.
    What are the estimated usages of the new stations? What are the costs of providing canopies (given that this one is above ground level) ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    Are there any toilets?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,020
    Leon said:

    Whenever Brits like us lament the loss of beautiful stations and the Euston Arch, we should remember that the Americans contrived to demolish THIS



    What did they replace it with?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    It might sound harsh, but if there has been a sea change when it comes to high street usage it might not be possible to turn it around.
    Which was my point. I dont want billions spent on trying to revive something that is as outdated as the buggy whip and won't work
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,020

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    You don't need to go as far as those to be a step above generic awfulness.

    Though I'm pretty indifferent to stations personally. Functional and not outright ugly will do, where victorian grandeur is not viable
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,987
    edited July 2023

    BBC News - Nigel Farage: NatWest boss admits 'serious' error in bank closure row

    The boss of NatWest has admitted a "serious error of judgement" in discussing Nigel Farage's relationship with the bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66307353

    But the board aren't going to fire her....how can you have the boss.of a bank who can't keep their trap shut about the finances of a client.....its then open season on any employee who wants to do the same.

    According to Sky this is a holding position and the government are meeting the banks tomorrow over account closures but the government may use it's 40% shareholding to replace her, notwithstanding the board are threatening her remuneration and bonus package

    Frankly I think her position is untenable
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974


    Nigelb said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    The Ye of 2024? Interesting as he is (at least currently) a WAY better shill for Trump that Kanye West ever was.

    Sad but true.
    Nah

    the Democrats are Trumps best shills as they want him as the GOP candidate.
    NOT THIS DEMOCRAT. And I am FAR from alone.
    It's a conservative habit to explain to liberals what they're thinking.
    Despite all the practice, they never got very good at it.
    And vice versa of course.
    Some, perhaps.
    I must confess many of their mental processes are a complete mystery to me.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Both Reading Green Park (open May) and Brent Cross West (upcoming) have decent length canopies.
    What are the estimated usages of the new stations? What are the costs of providing canopies (given that this one is above ground level) ?
    Reading Green Park:



  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527

    Apologies for yet more Super-Blurro-Vision pics, here's Brent Cross West (scheduled for October) from a passing Thameslink train last Monday:

    (Snip)

    We should surely be overjoyed that new stations are being built. After the drought in the 80s and 90s.

    As for costs, Willington station in Derbyshire opened in 1995 for ... £565,000. We do have to ask why costs have increased so much, although park and rides will always cost more than the small Willington.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willington_railway_station
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Carnyx said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Aren't those spaced out whitish thingies shelters on the platform? aerial view here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station

    Well, they're not exactly PROPER canopies are they? Even Reading Green Park has proper canopies.

    I went to Ramsgate in May, took some shots of Thanet PW from a passing train:



    Oh! I thought the shelters were each the full size of each re-entrant in the barrier. That's insulting. Imagine piling into that and someone starts smoking and someone else starts coughing or talking to the clouds or, indeed, pissing in the corner (hopefully the outside one).

    Point raised and decisively resolved!
    Was at Mallaig station the other day in the rain. It has exactly one of those bus shelter things for the whole platform and as far as I know, the whole station.
    Sure, but it has a roofed ticket office and concourse on the same level as the platform.

    Annoyingly it had a canopy over a decent chunk of the platform but it got tatty and taken down to save on refurbishment, presumably - back in the 70s when the future of th eline was in doubt.
    During office hours it does.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    kle4 said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    You don't need to go as far as those to be a step above generic awfulness.

    Though I'm pretty indifferent to stations personally. Functional and not outright ugly will do, where victorian grandeur is not viable
    London Transport stations of the 1930s weren't a bad compromise, surely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,020
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    It might sound harsh, but if there has been a sea change when it comes to high street usage it might not be possible to turn it around.
    Which was my point. I dont want billions spent on trying to revive something that is as outdated as the buggy whip and won't work
    I was agreeing with you. I don't see it coming back for most places. There isn't the demand.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,026

    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
    RFKjr is NOT a serious candidate/alternative for President.

    No more than Kanye West was. Or Lyndon LaRouche, though at least HE wasn't a 100% GOP Con-job.
    Or Donald Trump in 2015.

    How did that ... oh ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788
    Miklosvar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    Not hellbent to, as its well outside the London area - but it's not exactly been welcome locally, given it's in the middle of nowhere and there is only an intermittent bus service. And there are NO SHELTERS on the platform.

    I'm looking forward to Brent Cross West on the Thameslink line, scheduled for October. To maintain my 100% record of visiting every station in London. It's not far from your patch, so easy for you to visit too :)
    Aren't those spaced out whitish thingies shelters on the platform? aerial view here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station

    Well, they're not exactly PROPER canopies are they? Even Reading Green Park has proper canopies.

    I went to Ramsgate in May, took some shots of Thanet PW from a passing train:



    Oh! I thought the shelters were each the full size of each re-entrant in the barrier. That's insulting. Imagine piling into that and someone starts smoking and someone else starts coughing or talking to the clouds or, indeed, pissing in the corner (hopefully the outside one).

    Point raised and decisively resolved!
    Was at Mallaig station the other day in the rain. It has exactly one of those bus shelter things for the whole platform and as far as I know, the whole station.
    Sure, but it has a roofed ticket office and concourse on the same level as the platform.

    Annoyingly it had a canopy over a decent chunk of the platform but it got tatty and taken down to save on refurbishment, presumably - back in the 70s when the future of th eline was in doubt.
    During office hours it does.
    How many trains outside office hours on that line? It's not a commuter railway or mass transit irban one with late travellers, unless it has changed a lot since my last trips on it.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    It might sound harsh, but if there has been a sea change when it comes to high street usage it might not be possible to turn it around.
    Which was my point. I dont want billions spent on trying to revive something that is as outdated as the buggy whip and won't work
    I was agreeing with you. I don't see it coming back for most places. There isn't the demand.
    Sadly though there are those that will advocate for money to save them
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    BBC News - Nigel Farage: NatWest boss admits 'serious' error in bank closure row

    The boss of NatWest has admitted a "serious error of judgement" in discussing Nigel Farage's relationship with the bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66307353

    But the board aren't going to fire her....how can you have the boss.of a bank who can't keep their trap shut about the finances of a client.....its then open season on any employee who wants to do the same.

    According to Sky this is a holding position and the government are meeting the banks tomorrow over account closures but the government may use it's 40% shareholding to replace her, notwithstanding the board are threatening her remuneration and bonus package

    Frankly I think her position is untenable
    That's OUR 40% shareholding. Putting something of a spoke in the wheel of the "private company, can do what it likes" argument.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807

    BBC News - Nigel Farage: NatWest boss admits 'serious' error in bank closure row

    The boss of NatWest has admitted a "serious error of judgement" in discussing Nigel Farage's relationship with the bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66307353

    But the board aren't going to fire her....how can you have the boss.of a bank who can't keep their trap shut about the finances of a client.....its then open season on any employee who wants to do the same.

    According to Sky this is a holding position and the government are meeting the banks tomorrow over account closures but the government may use it's 40% shareholding to replace her, notwithstanding the board are threatening her remuneration and bonus package

    Frankly I think her position is untenable
    I agree with the final point. No matter what was said or wasn’t said to even give some form of inference about a customer to a journalist isn’t a great look for a banking boss.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,284
    edited July 2023
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Whenever Brits like us lament the loss of beautiful stations and the Euston Arch, we should remember that the Americans contrived to demolish THIS



    What did they replace it with?
    A car park probably.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,396
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.

    I mean trees and canopies in front of the station. The elevation I have provided is the FRONT of the station ffs. Not some ugly loading bay at the back

    And yes, amazingly, I like St Pancras

    I actually get your point about cost. If this station had a budget of £1m I’d say well ok. There wasn’t much they could do

    £35 fucking million. To produce THAT

    Also, why on earth are you defending it? Aren’t you a railway geek? People will support railways if they are beautiful or fast or uplifting or impressive, not if they are deliberately depressing, joyless, mean and off putting

    Ditto all developments
    The absence of any form of shelter is probably deliberate, as the station is un-manned, shelter might attract loiterers.

    The whole thing is a miserable, depressing spectacle.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,284
    Phil said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Whenever Brits like us lament the loss of beautiful stations and the Euston Arch, we should remember that the Americans contrived to demolish THIS



    What did they replace it with?
    A car park probably.
    (actually they replaced it with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden )
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,597
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    It might sound harsh, but if there has been a sea change when it comes to high street usage it might not be possible to turn it around.
    Which was my point. I dont want billions spent on trying to revive something that is as outdated as the buggy whip and won't work
    Same reason cash is dying....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    Cambridge North - a bit of oldy already (2017), but didn't get round to checking it out till Thursday last! Only trouble is the footbridge precludes photography because it has loads of tiny holes in the walls!





    :


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    .
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    Public spaces encompass a lot more than just high streets, of course.
    If you turn city centres into residential areas (which I tend to approve), good public spaces become more important, not less.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    "Charity" shops are mostly a tax dodge anyway.

    Tell Oxfam style shops to pay NNDR on the same basis as every other shop and they would largely vanish.

    Taxes should be low, fair and consistently paid by everyone. Favoured groups not paying their taxes means they have to be higher on everyone else and completely distorts the market.
    Good luck with that one. I think charity shops (especially those supporting development in countries much much poorer than us) should be in the same position re NNDR etc as agricultural land currently is.

    Though ag. land is a very tempting target given that we need to increase the tax take by about £300bn pa (about 30%) if we are to pay out debt interest, stop our addiction to borrowing and pay for even a quarter of the extra things to R4 Today programme tells us the taxpayer needs to pay more for each day.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    Public spaces encompass a lot more than just high streets, of course.
    If you turn city centres into residential areas (which I tend to approve), good public spaces become more important, not less.
    High streets will still have a place, restaurants, cafe's etc. Social life. The sooner we switch to that than assuming every high street should have a dixon's and a supermarket the better.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    "Charity" shops are mostly a tax dodge anyway.

    Tell Oxfam style shops to pay NNDR on the same basis as every other shop and they would largely vanish.

    Taxes should be low, fair and consistently paid by everyone. Favoured groups not paying their taxes means they have to be higher on everyone else and completely distorts the market.
    It is not even about tax, the only time most go to a high street is because they are on there way somewhere else, I have to goto a high street because I use a bus, I get a bus there then I get a bus out to where I actually want to be. I am not going to go shop there. Like most people I can get all I need outside a high street at lower price and with better choice. The only people who use high streets these days are old people.
    Their prevalence is all about tax avoidance though. As far as I understand it ...

    A real shop on the High Street would need to pay high rates of NNDR (commercial Council Tax). This can help make real shops unviable.

    An empty shop would see the Landlord responsible for the NNDR while not getting rent

    Charity shops are exempt from NNDR.

    So a charity gets land the landlord can't let at a cut down rent or even rent free. Landlord avoids being responsible for NNDR anymore, shop opens that doesn't pay taxes and barely has to pay rent if it has to pay any at all.

    Meanwhile commercial rivals have to pay taxes and rent. And taxes go higher on them as not paid by everyone, so they become unviable, so land is unrented, so more charity shops open in a vicious circle.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    Well exactly. Amazingly I believe there is probably a landing zone somewhere between St Pancras and Thanet Parkway. Somewhere with an attempt at decent design, proper shelter, loos, canopies, a nice welcoming entrance. And trees. Maybe some trees

    This should not be impossible with a budget of £35 million

    Yet we have Thanet Parkway, a station so bad even @Sunil_Prasannan won’t go there
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
    "Charity" shops are mostly a tax dodge anyway.

    Tell Oxfam style shops to pay NNDR on the same basis as every other shop and they would largely vanish.

    Taxes should be low, fair and consistently paid by everyone. Favoured groups not paying their taxes means they have to be higher on everyone else and completely distorts the market.
    Good luck with that one. I think charity shops (especially those supporting development in countries much much poorer than us) should be in the same position re NNDR etc as agricultural land currently is.

    Though ag. land is a very tempting target given that we need to increase the tax take by about £300bn pa (about 30%) if we are to pay out debt interest, stop our addiction to borrowing and pay for even a quarter of the extra things to R4 Today programme tells us the taxpayer needs to pay more for each day.

    Most charity shops like oxfam do little more than pay out fat salaries to their executives. It is frightening how many major charities actually spend of their income on the cause they claim to support.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,316
    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    Good design is important. The things we make are part of our daily lives and if they are designed well or lives are easier, more pleasant and safer. Bad design makes people miserable and frustrated.

    Britain deserves better than the design of that station.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,396
    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    Quite.

    This is a good primer on why some buildings are considered 'beautiful' - if all public architecture followed these lines, it could be as sleekly modernist is it wished.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C9pg2j2oGy0&embeds_referring_euri=https://theaestheticcity.com/&feature=emb_logo

    It doesn't have to be St Pancras, but it shouldn't be ugly.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,125
    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    Nigelb said:

    Texas A&M suspended a professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) during her lecture.
    https://twitter.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1683872835201105920

    Right wingers bleat about freedom of speech but only if it’s agreeing with them and they don’t like democracy .

    Around the world you see them wanting to remove checks and balances and ensure continual re-election.

    The right wing need to stfu about woke. The biggest danger to the public are these right wing nutjobs.



  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,396
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Whenever Brits like us lament the loss of beautiful stations and the Euston Arch, we should remember that the Americans contrived to demolish THIS



    What did they replace it with?
    A car park probably.
    (actually they replaced it with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden )
    Hideous.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

  • Phil said:

    Phil said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Whenever Brits like us lament the loss of beautiful stations and the Euston Arch, we should remember that the Americans contrived to demolish THIS



    What did they replace it with?
    A car park probably.
    (actually they replaced it with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Square_Garden )
    An incredibly well used and world famous building. Seems like a sensible upgrade.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    edited July 2023
    Alanbrooke - Since you asked: I would not describe either sitting governor running for president as "mendacious grifters". Florida's Ron DeSantis has his faults, but I would not describe him that way. Former Microsoft exec, and current North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, looks as if he would make a good president.

    Then there are two former governors in the race, Nikki Haley and Asa Hutchinson, both of whom would probably be fine presidents. Incidentally, in part of his long career, Hutchinson prosecuted a number of "mendacious grifters".

    For example: "In 1982, President Ronald Reagan appointed Hutchinson U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Arkansas. At age 31, Hutchinson was the nation's youngest U.S. Attorney. He made national headlines after successfully prosecuting The Covenant, The Sword, and The Arm of the Lord (CSA), a white supremacist organization founded by polygamist James Ellison. The CSA forced a three-day armed standoff with local, state, and federal law enforcement. As U.S. Attorney, Hutchinson personally negotiated a peaceful conclusion to the standoff."
    (Links omitted.)
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asa_Hutchinson

    I hope I am helping you out of your struggles.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    This is precisely it. Besides, the witterings of Ruskin shows how what was once deemed 'ugly' can now been seen as exquisitely beuatiful.

    Then again, brutalism is sh*t. ;)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,795
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    Well exactly. Amazingly I believe there is probably a landing zone somewhere between St Pancras and Thanet Parkway. Somewhere with an attempt at decent design, proper shelter, loos, canopies, a nice welcoming entrance. And trees. Maybe some trees

    This should not be impossible with a budget of £35 million

    Yet we have Thanet Parkway, a station so bad even @Sunil_Prasannan won’t go there
    Heh, actually the reason it's not high up on my bouquet list is simply because it is WAY outside London!

    Two sort of overlapping "missions":

    A) I've visited every station in London,
    and
    B ) been on all "normal everyday" National Rail, Tube, Light Rail and Tram lines in Great Britain.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,363
    ...

    BBC News - Nigel Farage: NatWest boss admits 'serious' error in bank closure row

    The boss of NatWest has admitted a "serious error of judgement" in discussing Nigel Farage's relationship with the bank.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66307353

    But the board aren't going to fire her....how can you have the boss.of a bank who can't keep their trap shut about the finances of a client.....its then open season on any employee who wants to do the same.

    Nigey's hitherto unimpeachable record was sullied beyond repair. Surely he is considering
    whether he can make sure he has enough cash liquidity to keep his Coutts' account open forevermore via some litigation. What the price to satisfy Nige's reputation? £5m, £10m, £20m, £50m. It's not like NatWest can't afford it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,215
    kinabalu said:

    I am fed up of hearing about Rishi's plans.

    He and his jumped up bunch of twats have been in power for 13 years, how much more time are they supposed to have?

    He’s been in a senior role for 3 years and most of that was during the pandemic.

    But you’re a partisan, so no interest in listening to an alternative approach
    You are also a partisan.
    Nah - I’m right of centre generally but not a member or supporter of any party. At the moment likely to spoil my ballot

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865

    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    This is precisely it. Besides, the witterings of Ruskin shows how what was once deemed 'ugly' can now been seen as exquisitely beuatiful.

    Then again, brutalism is sh*t. ;)
    Which is my objection to the new slough bus station it doesn't cater for 1) it wasnt the cheapest design so fails 2). Yes it looks pretty
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,947
    edited July 2023
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/25/dame-alison-rose-statement-in-full-nigel-farage-bbc-coutts/

    The apology isn't really an apology, its essentially blaming the BBC journalist as being a wally.

    Somebody is lying because BBC say they double checked with their source at the bank before running the story.

    Its like the spiderman meme where they are all pointing at one another.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.

    I mean trees and canopies in front of the station. The elevation I have provided is the FRONT of the station ffs. Not some ugly loading bay at the back

    And yes, amazingly, I like St Pancras

    I actually get your point about cost. If this station had a budget of £1m I’d say well ok. There wasn’t much they could do

    £35 fucking million. To produce THAT

    Also, why on earth are you defending it? Aren’t you a railway geek? People will support railways if they are beautiful or fast or uplifting or impressive, not if they are deliberately depressing, joyless, mean and off putting

    Ditto all developments
    The absence of any form of shelter is probably deliberate, as the station is un-manned, shelter might attract loiterers.

    The whole thing is a miserable, depressing spectacle.
    I wonder if Thanet Parkway has these in its design:

    https://londonist.com/london/secret/urine-deflectors
    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/urine-deflectors-of-fleet-street
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,788

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
    Elgin? Not up to much, and not as nice as the old station which went out of use (track changes). But a lot better than Thanet Parkway.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@57.6430163,-3.3109223,3a,75y,228.53h,79.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3y-hSNluV5SUJNQyDFNkzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,650
    edited July 2023

    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    This is precisely it. Besides, the witterings of Ruskin shows how what was once deemed 'ugly' can now been seen as exquisitely beuatiful.

    Then again, brutalism is sh*t. ;)
    Every architect should be forced to live in Cumbernauld.

    After all, they voted it the world's best new town.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    This is precisely it. Besides, the witterings of Ruskin shows how what was once deemed 'ugly' can now been seen as exquisitely beuatiful.

    Then again, brutalism is sh*t. ;)
    Which is my objection to the new slough bus station it doesn't cater for 1) it wasnt the cheapest design so fails 2). Yes it looks pretty
    Slough has been poorly served:
    From this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slough_bus_station#/media/File:Slough_bus_station_berkshire.jpg
    To this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slough_bus_station#/media/File:Side_view_of_Slough_bus_station_(geograph_3459140).jpg

    This may be controversial, but the new one is as bad as the old. Especially if there is a fire:
    https://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/23676591.no-update-slough-bus-station-nine-months-fire/

    In 2011, Hampshire Police moved into a new building in Southampton. It looks cool; but sadly is going to at least partially close after only a decade or so due to floods and a legionnaire outbreak

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:So'ton_Central_Police_Station.jpg

    We can perhaps add a 4) to the above:

    4) Maintainability. The ongoing costs of operating and maintaining the structure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
    I propose DART, Luton

    AND it’s modern. Not Poundbury


  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    This is precisely it. Besides, the witterings of Ruskin shows how what was once deemed 'ugly' can now been seen as exquisitely beuatiful.

    Then again, brutalism is sh*t. ;)
    Which is my objection to the new slough bus station it doesn't cater for 1) it wasnt the cheapest design so fails 2). Yes it looks pretty
    Slough has been poorly served:
    From this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slough_bus_station#/media/File:Slough_bus_station_berkshire.jpg
    To this:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slough_bus_station#/media/File:Side_view_of_Slough_bus_station_(geograph_3459140).jpg

    This may be controversial, but the new one is as bad as the old. Especially if there is a fire:
    https://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/23676591.no-update-slough-bus-station-nine-months-fire/

    In 2011, Hampshire Police moved into a new building in Southampton. It looks cool; but sadly is going to at least partially close after only a decade or so due to floods and a legionnaire outbreak

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:So'ton_Central_Police_Station.jpg

    We can perhaps add a 4) to the above:

    4) Maintainability. The ongoing costs of operating and maintaining the structure.
    4) looks good too but politicians struggle with numbers over 3
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,987
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
    Elgin? Not up to much, and not as nice as the old station which went out of use (track changes). But a lot better than Thanet Parkway.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@57.6430163,-3.3109223,3a,75y,228.53h,79.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3y-hSNluV5SUJNQyDFNkzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
    Lot different to the Elgin Station we were used to but times do change
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
    Elgin? Not up to much, and not as nice as the old station which went out of use (track changes). But a lot better than Thanet Parkway.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@57.6430163,-3.3109223,3a,75y,228.53h,79.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3y-hSNluV5SUJNQyDFNkzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
    That looks like a loo block in a business district...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
    I propose DART, Luton

    AND it’s modern. Not Poundbury


    The most expensive rail journey in the UK, which opened late, and way above budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64944542

    Something has to give.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    edited July 2023
    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    How about the aesthetes in the population who NEED beauty?

    I suspect this is a lot larger as a percentage of the whole than you realise. PB is infested with engineering geek/data types. Beauty is not their thing

    For many people, it matters quite a lot
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
    I propose DART, Luton

    AND it’s modern. Not Poundbury


    The most expensive rail journey in the UK, which opened late, and way above budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64944542

    Something has to give.
    They built an entirely new rai line, with two terminals, for that price

    We got ONLY Thanet Parkway for £35m

    Anyway you asked for a beautiful, new modern station, not in a city centre. I fulfilled the brief
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    How about the aesthetes in the population who NEED beauty?

    I suspect this is a lot larger as a percentage of the whole than you realise. PB is infested with engineering geek/data types. Beauty is not the their thing

    For many people, it matters quite a lot
    Beauty is worthless if it doesn't cater for the people use it. Would you queue up to wait for a bus while being urinated on by tramps just because the building was beautiful? Well maybe you would but I bet most wouldn't.

    I don't claim beauty is not important I am just saying catering for the needs of those using it and cost are more important. Cater for 1 and 2 then make it beautiful not make it beautiful but impractical. Slough's new bus station is a prime example of the latter
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    How about the aesthetes in the population who NEED beauty?

    I suspect this is a lot larger as a percentage of the whole than you realise. PB is infested with engineering geek/data types. Beauty is not the their thing

    For many people, it matters quite a lot
    Beauty is worthless if it doesn't cater for the people use it. Would you queue up to wait for a bus while being urinated on by tramps just because the building was beautiful? Well maybe you would but I bet most wouldn't.

    I don't claim beauty is not important I am just saying catering for the needs of those using it and cost are more important. Cater for 1 and 2 then make it beautiful not make it beautiful but impractical. Slough's new bus station is a prime example of the latter
    You miss my point. Beauty can be a NEED
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2023
    The bloody weather has been awful since I broke up on Friday.
    Headed for the Lakes for a fortnight tomorrow and the forecast is dire.
    Pah!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
    Elgin? Not up to much, and not as nice as the old station which went out of use (track changes). But a lot better than Thanet Parkway.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@57.6430163,-3.3109223,3a,75y,228.53h,79.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3y-hSNluV5SUJNQyDFNkzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu
    Yeah, but no. That looks like a place for shooting up

    Still better than Thanet, mind
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,974
    nico679 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Texas A&M suspended a professor accused of criticizing Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) during her lecture.
    https://twitter.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1683872835201105920

    Right wingers bleat about freedom of speech but only if it’s agreeing with them and they don’t like democracy .

    Around the world you see them wanting to remove checks and balances and ensure continual re-election.

    The right wing need to stfu about woke. The biggest danger to the public are these right wing nutjobs.

    Note she didn't actually criticise the Lt. Governor.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,941
    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It's still possible to build beautiful stuff - I was amazed to find out the "Atlas" bar in Singapore was opened in 2017.

    Design should cater in order for
    1) The needs of people using it
    2) Cost
    3) looking pretty

    How about the aesthetes in the population who NEED beauty?

    I suspect this is a lot larger as a percentage of the whole than you realise. PB is infested with engineering geek/data types. Beauty is not the their thing

    For many people, it matters quite a lot
    Beauty is worthless if it doesn't cater for the people use it. Would you queue up to wait for a bus while being urinated on by tramps just because the building was beautiful? Well maybe you would but I bet most wouldn't.

    I don't claim beauty is not important I am just saying catering for the needs of those using it and cost are more important. Cater for 1 and 2 then make it beautiful not make it beautiful but impractical. Slough's new bus station is a prime example of the latter
    You miss my point. Beauty can be a NEED
    How is AI on the beauty thing? The evidence is on the threadbare to non existent so far.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,527
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Jesus. It seems like people on here want every new station to be St Pancras or Kings Cross.

    ... and then they wonder why so few new stations are built...

    Do they ?
    Or do they just want a bit more attention paid to their design, so they both function better, and are less ugly ?
    How do you know this new station does not 'function' better?

    A question: when was the last 'beautiful' new station built in the UK, on a non-city centre site?
    I propose DART, Luton

    AND it’s modern. Not Poundbury


    The most expensive rail journey in the UK, which opened late, and way above budget.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64944542

    Something has to give.
    They built an entirely new rai line, with two terminals, for that price

    We got ONLY Thanet Parkway for £35m

    Anyway you asked for a beautiful, new modern station, not in a city centre. I fulfilled the brief
    You haven't actualyl shown it from outside.

    And BTW, when it comes to cost, that's a new line. Thanet was built on an existing line, which *really* increases cost.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,529
    12% of Tory voters going to Labour has to be very concerning for the red team. What was the equivalent figure in the lead up to the 1997 election?
This discussion has been closed.