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The polling that should worry LAB majority punters – politicalbetting.com

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  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Nothing to worry about for Starmer.

    The more the country see him during the election campaign these figures will improve as the country loves a lawyer.

    Lol. It's just the way you tell them . Cracks me up.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    Very productive day here anyway. I had to assemble a 'Big Green Egg' barbecue. Risibly meant to take 20 minutes. Yes if you're Jimbob Walton. Me, close to 4 hours. But this only adds to the sense of achievement. I'm looking at it now - fully assembled.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,030

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    kinabalu said:

    Very productive day here anyway. I had to assemble a 'Big Green Egg' barbecue. Risibly meant to take 20 minutes. Yes if you're Jimbob Walton. Me, close to 4 hours. But this only adds to the sense of achievement. I'm looking at it now - fully assembled.

    Enjoy it while you can, even now some twat is eyeing your fun and wishing to ban bbq as a global warming threat,
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,131
    A
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    When I become UnDictator, chain gangs of planners and architects will be forced to demolish Architecturally Award Winning buildings by hand. Good behaviour and they get a tea spoon.

    Think of it as putting the Brutality in Brutalism.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    From the betting pov yes - he's shorter for the WH (13) than the Nom (15). I've laid that 13 for free right up to my Trump exposure.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    kinabalu said:

    Very productive day here anyway. I had to assemble a 'Big Green Egg' barbecue. Risibly meant to take 20 minutes. Yes if you're Jimbob Walton. Me, close to 4 hours. But this only adds to the sense of achievement. I'm looking at it now - fully assembled.

    Enjoy it while you can, even now some twat is eyeing your fun and wishing to ban bbq as a global warming threat,
    Ah but the 'BGE' is environmentally friendly. You keep the lid on and can cook in all weathers.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,081

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Ron de Santis has just been interviewed by Russell Brand.

    He is done.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/21/us/politics/desantis-russell-brand-jan-6-insurrection.html
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,030

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    Indeed. Luckily, he is chock full of different viewpoints... :)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Very productive day here anyway. I had to assemble a 'Big Green Egg' barbecue. Risibly meant to take 20 minutes. Yes if you're Jimbob Walton. Me, close to 4 hours. But this only adds to the sense of achievement. I'm looking at it now - fully assembled.

    Enjoy it while you can, even now some twat is eyeing your fun and wishing to ban bbq as a global warming threat,
    Ah but the 'BGE' is environmentally friendly. You keep the lid on and can cook in all weathers.
    Well good luck !

    Theyll then try it a different way and only let you bbq turnips.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    Indeed. Luckily, he is chock full of different viewpoints... :)
    He most certainly is :smiley:
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,030
    Anyhoo, have we talked bout this:

    "...UK to run up highest debt interest bill in developed world: Treasury on course to spend 10% of government revenue on bond costs this year, according to forecast by Fitch", FT 2023/07/25, see https://www.ft.com/content/b25903fd-2ebe-4f65-aa20-c21d873946f3 ..."
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Switzerland as the mark of efficiency has surely privatised their railways.

    Oh dear.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,806
    viewcode said:

    Anyhoo, have we talked bout this:

    "...UK to run up highest debt interest bill in developed world: Treasury on course to spend 10% of government revenue on bond costs this year, according to forecast by Fitch", FT 2023/07/25, see https://www.ft.com/content/b25903fd-2ebe-4f65-aa20-c21d873946f3 ..."

    If only we had recently enjoyed a period of ultra low interest rates where any halfwit could have tied us into long term fixed cost cheap borrowing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    I'm usually more inclined to agree with viewcode than you, but in this case, you're 100% correct.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Is Leon still in Ukraine?

    If so, then am interpreting his sandwich screed, as yet another sign of hope and optimism!

    For UKR, anyway.

    I am still in Lviv. Where the weather has turned stormy and rainy. So I’m thinking of moving on

    My choice is Kyiv: fascinating, the capital, quite dramatic, but also iffy weather

    Or Odesa: lovely weather, fascinating, but I could die in a missile strike (so REALLY dramatic)

    Or go home
    Odesa is surely worth a visit ?
    The risk is probably not much greater than that of being involved in a traffic accident. Not exactly Bakhmut.

    And they've beefed up the air defences a bit.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,397
    Ghedebrav said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Lock up all the architects until we can figure out what the hell is going on.

    It made it through planning.

    Imagine what we would get if the planning system did not exist !
    I actually want people that make things like that to go to jail

    This is why we all want Poundbury. If architects and planners are incapable of beauty, and far too many of them are, then it must be imposed on them, and all agency taken away from them. There will be style books they have to follow. Traditional station architecture. Nice gables and arches and canopies. Victoriana

    I don’t care if it is pastiche it will be MILES BETTER THAN THAT

    At the risk of giving myself high blood pressure, what are you referring to?

    This



    Yikes.

    Architects (or an influential chunk of them) are the most egotistical wankers around, or at least the wankers who have the greatest ability to inflict aesthetic misery on millions.

    At some point this weirdo coterie decided that true beauty was sparse ugliness, ideally covered in rust. The concrete ego-monuments you see on Grand Designs - you know, the kind of house that wouldn't last ten minutes with kids in - are testament to the decadence of that profession.

    There's a reason why normal people actually aspire to nice Victorian terraces, Edwardian semis or cosy cottages. They are _homes_ above all else. Not Nordic-hued shrines to absence. Poundbury isn't ideal, but (a) pastiche and homage have been part of art and design since forever, and (b) PEOPLE LIKE IT.
    Research has shown that architects' taste in ugly buildings gets progressively worse as they pass through their studies.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Is Leon still in Ukraine?

    If so, then am interpreting his sandwich screed, as yet another sign of hope and optimism!

    For UKR, anyway.

    I am still in Lviv. Where the weather has turned stormy and rainy. So I’m thinking of moving on

    My choice is Kyiv: fascinating, the capital, quite dramatic, but also iffy weather

    Or Odesa: lovely weather, fascinating, but I could die in a missile strike (so REALLY dramatic)

    Or go home
    Odesa is surely worth a visit ?
    The risk is probably not much greater than that of being involved in a traffic accident. Not exactly Bakhmut.

    And they've beefed up the air defences a bit.
    Odesa also means I can avoid doubling back. I hate going over old ground. From Odesa I can get to Moldova. And fly home from there, or Romania
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,806
    MattW said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Ron de Santis has just been interviewed by Russell Brand.

    He is done.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/21/us/politics/desantis-russell-brand-jan-6-insurrection.html
    I'm sure Borat or one of his aliases will have tried to interview the 2024 Presidential field, I wonder which of them will have been both dumb enough and badly advised to get involved.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,397
    viewcode said:

    Anyhoo, have we talked bout this:

    "...UK to run up highest debt interest bill in developed world: Treasury on course to spend 10% of government revenue on bond costs this year, according to forecast by Fitch", FT 2023/07/25, see https://www.ft.com/content/b25903fd-2ebe-4f65-aa20-c21d873946f3 ..."

    Good job we've got Rishi, not that awful Truss who raised bond yields to... Oh.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    The Ye of 2024? Interesting as he is (at least currently) a WAY better shill for Trump that Kanye West ever was.

    Sad but true.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,204
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,837
    MattW said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Ron de Santis has just been interviewed by Russell Brand.

    He is done.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/21/us/politics/desantis-russell-brand-jan-6-insurrection.html
    Russell Brand has gone from interviewing and backing Ed Miliband in 2015 to interviewing DeSantis now having become very anti lockdown and vax sceptic. Quite the u turn
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2015/apr/29/ed-miliband-russell-brand-video-highlights
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,837
    kle4 said:

    There's an interesting divide in American between NeverTrumpers who are that way because they think he is a loser, and those who think he could win but that is bad.

    I keep hearing Republicans say that Republican voters shouldn’t vote for Trump in the primaries because he’ll likely lose the general election.

    NO. The reason Republicans shouldn’t nominate Trump is that he can WIN and go back to the WH

    https://nitter.net/RpsAgainstTrump?cursor=1683686976594104320

    Some Republicans like Romney didn't even vote for Trump in 2020
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    IMF Growth forecast is out.

    UK 0.4% in 2023, but Germany -0.3%, so everything is fine, no problems whatsoever.

    https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/07/10/world-economic-outlook-update-july-2023
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    edited July 2023
    Off topic (but it is about politics): Here are the ratings for all 50 US governors. Republican Phil Scott of Vermont leads the list: https://pro.morningconsult.com/analysis/governor-approval-ratings-july-2023 (Not all that long ago, Republicans dominated the top ten.)

    I think it fair to say that California's Gavin Newsom under performs, given how Democratic that state is. (Perhaps he should invite more people to join him at the French Laundry.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,837
    edited July 2023
    CatMan said:

    IMF Growth forecast is out.

    UK 0.4% in 2023, but Germany -0.3%, so everything is fine, no problems whatsoever.

    https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/07/10/world-economic-outlook-update-july-2023

    Spain forecast to have the fastest growth of major advanced economies this year there, then the US. Next year Canada, France and Germany as well as Spain expected to grow faster than the USA.

    India projected to have the fastest global growth overall
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Is Leon still in Ukraine?

    If so, then am interpreting his sandwich screed, as yet another sign of hope and optimism!

    For UKR, anyway.

    I am still in Lviv. Where the weather has turned stormy and rainy. So I’m thinking of moving on

    My choice is Kyiv: fascinating, the capital, quite dramatic, but also iffy weather

    Or Odesa: lovely weather, fascinating, but I could die in a missile strike (so REALLY dramatic)

    Or go home
    Odesa is surely worth a visit ?
    Tchaikovsky Street down by the port is as rough as fuck. Also, the Russophone porn capital.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    edited July 2023

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    The Ye of 2024? Interesting as he is (at least currently) a WAY better shill for Trump that Kanye West ever was.

    Sad but true.
    Nah

    the Democrats are Trumps best shills as they want him as the GOP candidate.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,528

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
    I shall refuse that bait :smiley:
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,397
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
    That is sub-judice.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    IMF Growth forecast is out.

    UK 0.4% in 2023, but Germany -0.3%, so everything is fine, no problems whatsoever.

    https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/07/10/world-economic-outlook-update-july-2023

    Spain forecast to have the fastest growth of major advanced economies this year there, then the US. Next year Canada, France and Germany as well as Spain expected to grow faster than the USA.

    India projected to have the fastest global growth overall
    Given the mess France is in I struggle to see how they will hit the forecast
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Someone crunched the numbers. It cost a minimum of £35 MILLION

    No joke. And it looks like it cost £30k max

    For £35 MILLION they could have put in a few trees? And maybe a shelter of some kind? So you don’t get wet waiting for the non existent bus link?

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,318
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66300209

    This is the sort of stuff that @DavidL has to deal with. It must be so difficult to cope with such depravity, over and again..
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,406
    edited July 2023
    In this small Essex town a town centre building burned down about 60 years. It was around 200 years old.
    It was replaced by a building of such stunning ugliness and incompatibility with its surroundings that, I’m told, architectural students are brought here to be shown what not to do!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,789
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    https://twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1683782095213035522

    This is what we’re up against.

    The Labour Party, a subset of lawyers, criminal gangs - they're all on the same side, propping up a system of exploitation that profits from getting people to the UK illegally.


    Rishi Sunak is a fucktard.

    His [Sunak's] plan on how to stop it involves [checks notes] letting them in legally instead to be baristas.

    I wish I was making that up.

    1300 or so landed last week from small boats. Enough for 2 1/2 more barges.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats/migrants-detected-crossing-the-english-channel-in-small-boats-last-7-days
    1300 a week is about 67,000 per year. They are talking about letting in a million per year. 67,000 is around 7% of the whole.
    KNock some of that off - it's summer now, not the winter weather.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,528
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    Leon probably loves St Pancras. Yet the building of St Pancras cost the Midland Railway so much, that the northern extension to Manchester a decade later was done on a shoestring. Manchester Central therefore had a brilliant overall roof, but a load of 'temporary' wooden buildings - a wooden 1970s Kings Cross - in front of it. Which were so temporary that they lasted until the closure of the station, eighty years later.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    viewcode said:

    Anyhoo, have we talked bout this:

    "...UK to run up highest debt interest bill in developed world: Treasury on course to spend 10% of government revenue on bond costs this year, according to forecast by Fitch", FT 2023/07/25, see https://www.ft.com/content/b25903fd-2ebe-4f65-aa20-c21d873946f3 ..."

    First thought: We are post bank crisis, post covid and post Brexit. By now we should be balancing the books on current account and starting to pay off some of the £2trillion we owe.

    The facts are that in Q1 (April-June) of 2023-4 financial year we borrowed an additional £54.4 billion.

    Essentially we are paying the high interest cost of debt by borrowing, at high rates, the money to pay the interest, so that the debt and the repayments continue to rise.

    That's like dealing with CO2 by reopening a coal fired electricity programme.

    Except that Truss would have borrowed a little more, no-one in politics has much to say. Does anyone know Labour's approach to this? They aren't drawing much attention to it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
    I shall refuse that bait :smiley:
    Good call since here's what the words mean:

    Mendacious = An habitual liar.
    Grifter = Interested only in personal gain and gratification.

    Biden fits neither. He just doesn't. It's not even a matter of opinion.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,528
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
    That is sub-judice.
    It isn't. There's 50 years of evidence. He's been in public life since 1970.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
    I shall refuse that bait :smiley:
    Good call since here's what the words mean:

    Mendacious = An habitual liar.
    Grifter = Interested only in personal gain and gratification.

    Biden fits neither. He just doesn't. It's not even a matter of opinion.
    It quite clearly is as millions of americans will testify.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980
    .

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Sure, there are similarities to Trump, but otherwise you're just trolling.
    Not interesting.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,546

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    IMF Growth forecast is out.

    UK 0.4% in 2023, but Germany -0.3%, so everything is fine, no problems whatsoever.

    https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/07/10/world-economic-outlook-update-july-2023

    Spain forecast to have the fastest growth of major advanced economies this year there, then the US. Next year Canada, France and Germany as well as Spain expected to grow faster than the USA.

    India projected to have the fastest global growth overall
    Given the mess France is in I struggle to see how they will hit the forecast
    All of the clean up after the riots will add to GDP.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,789
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    It is a Parkway - meant to serve the hinterland (and the airport if/when it reopens). The car park is a giveaway. Not just a halt for the residents of Cliffsend.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,222

    I am fed up of hearing about Rishi's plans.

    He and his jumped up bunch of twats have been in power for 13 years, how much more time are they supposed to have?

    He’s been in a senior role for 3 years and most of that was during the pandemic.

    But you’re a partisan, so no interest in listening to an alternative approach
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
    That is sub-judice.
    No, it isn't.
    The laughable Republican House investigation is not a judicial process, and in any event has proved completely empty.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Is Leon still in Ukraine?

    If so, then am interpreting his sandwich screed, as yet another sign of hope and optimism!

    For UKR, anyway.

    I am still in Lviv. Where the weather has turned stormy and rainy. So I’m thinking of moving on

    My choice is Kyiv: fascinating, the capital, quite dramatic, but also iffy weather

    Or Odesa: lovely weather, fascinating, but I could die in a missile strike (so REALLY dramatic)

    Or go home
    Odesa is surely worth a visit ?
    Tchaikovsky Street down by the port is as rough as fuck. Also, the Russophone porn capital.
    I see you're trying to persuade him, too.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Sure, there are similarities to Trump, but otherwise you're just trolling.
    Not interesting.
    Im not a Trump fan, the whole of the US is in a political mess and needs to get its shit together or else theyre Venezuala with hot dogs
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,131
    A

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Someone one posted a list of the facilities at that station above. It seemed very ableist.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    IMF Growth forecast is out.

    UK 0.4% in 2023, but Germany -0.3%, so everything is fine, no problems whatsoever.

    https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/07/10/world-economic-outlook-update-july-2023

    Spain forecast to have the fastest growth of major advanced economies this year there, then the US. Next year Canada, France and Germany as well as Spain expected to grow faster than the USA.

    India projected to have the fastest global growth overall
    Given the mess France is in I struggle to see how they will hit the forecast
    All of the clean up after the riots will add to GDP.
    Yes but there will then be more strikes and riots so GDP heads south
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    I am fed up of hearing about Rishi's plans.

    He and his jumped up bunch of twats have been in power for 13 years, how much more time are they supposed to have?

    He’s been in a senior role for 3 years and most of that was during the pandemic.

    But you’re a partisan, so no interest in listening to an alternative approach
    You are also a partisan.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.

    I mean trees and canopies in front of the station. The elevation I have provided is the FRONT of the station ffs. Not some ugly loading bay at the back

    And yes, amazingly, I like St Pancras

    I actually get your point about cost. If this station had a budget of £1m I’d say well ok. There wasn’t much they could do

    £35 fucking million. To produce THAT

    Also, why on earth are you defending it? Aren’t you a railway geek? People will support railways if they beautiful or fast or uplifting or impressive, not if they are deliberately depressing, joyless, mean and off putting

    Ditto all developments
    Not exactly Adlestrop.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,131

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.
    At a number of tube stations in London, staff have been official organised to do gardening stuff. Some platforms have fair sized potted palm trees and some really nice flowers.

    The completely boxed in, brick staircase would get some negative comments from experts in women friendly architecture. Which is a serious thing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,980
    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,789
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.

    I mean trees and canopies in front of the station. The elevation I have provided is the FRONT of the station ffs. Not some ugly loading bay at the back

    And yes, amazingly, I like St Pancras

    I actually get your point about cost. If this station had a budget of £1m I’d say well ok. There wasn’t much they could do

    £35 fucking million. To produce THAT

    Also, why on earth are you defending it? Aren’t you a railway geek? People will support railways if they beautiful or fast or uplifting or impressive, not if they are deliberately depressing, joyless, mean and off putting

    Ditto all developments
    Not exactly Adlestrop.
    Which would have had at least a stationmaster, tocket office clerk or two, and a porter or two, plus probably a couple of signalmen on shift, when it was built.

    Imagine being there, or at Thanet Parkway, in a dark winter evening with nobody around.

    Edit: except that at Adlestrop there was the resident stationmaster with his family in his house, and probably some other staff.

    https://www.modelrailforum.com/threads/buildings-for-adlestrop.26356/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
    I shall refuse that bait :smiley:
    Good call since here's what the words mean:

    Mendacious = An habitual liar.
    Grifter = Interested only in personal gain and gratification.

    Biden fits neither. He just doesn't. It's not even a matter of opinion.
    It quite clearly is as millions of americans will testify.
    The MAGA crowd, yes. They probably do believe Biden lies all the time and has a billion dollars stashed away from 50 years of venal corruption in public life. They believe lots of palpable nonsense, let's face it. But this is not what I mean by 'opinion'. For me an opinion is a view (fruity or not) that's defensible and grounded in reality. 'Joe Biden is a mendacious grifter' doesn't qualify. It just doesn't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,020
    edited July 2023

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,346

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    Because they would have had higher passenger numbers and lower running costs.

    That's really not difficult...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,947
    edited July 2023
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    edited July 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.
    At a number of tube stations in London, staff have been official organised to do gardening stuff. Some platforms have fair sized potted palm trees and some really nice flowers.

    The completely boxed in, brick staircase would get some negative comments from experts in women friendly architecture. Which is a serious thing.
    Yes. If it’s raining and you’re waiting for a taxi you’d have to shelter in the boxed in staircase. Inviting assault or rape

    Obviously the £35 MILLION budget couldn’t run to a simple, well lit external canopy with a camera where criminals might feel less able and likely to mug or rape you
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    If you count mendacious grifters, sure.
    Im struggling to think of a US politician who doesnt fit your catch all.
    Joe Biden isn't.
    I shall refuse that bait :smiley:
    Good call since here's what the words mean:

    Mendacious = An habitual liar.
    Grifter = Interested only in personal gain and gratification.

    Biden fits neither. He just doesn't. It's not even a matter of opinion.
    It quite clearly is as millions of americans will testify.
    The MAGA crowd, yes. They probably do believe Biden lies all the time and has a billion dollars stashed away from 50 years of venal corruption in public life. They believe lots of palpable nonsense, let's face it. But this is not what I mean by 'opinion'. For me an opinion is a view (fruity or not) that's defensible and grounded in reality. 'Joe Biden is a mendacious grifter' doesn't qualify. It just doesn't.
    Really ? Well good luck.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,837

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    IMF Growth forecast is out.

    UK 0.4% in 2023, but Germany -0.3%, so everything is fine, no problems whatsoever.

    https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/07/10/world-economic-outlook-update-july-2023

    Spain forecast to have the fastest growth of major advanced economies this year there, then the US. Next year Canada, France and Germany as well as Spain expected to grow faster than the USA.

    India projected to have the fastest global growth overall
    Given the mess France is in I struggle to see how they will hit the forecast
    Conservatives supporting Macron's economic reforms in the French Parliament even if Socialists and Le Pen's party opposed
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,346

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    Leon probably loves St Pancras. Yet the building of St Pancras cost the Midland Railway so much, that the northern extension to Manchester a decade later was done on a shoestring. Manchester Central therefore had a brilliant overall roof, but a load of 'temporary' wooden buildings - a wooden 1970s Kings Cross - in front of it. Which were so temporary that they lasted until the closure of the station, eighty years later.
    I have to admit, I also love St Pancras. And Bristol Temple Meads. And the ridiculous Aberystwyth Station. And the Kilsby Vents. And I'm sure I would have stood in awe before the Euston Arch.

    I also consider Birmingham New Street, Gloucester, Euston and Stafford stations to be shitheaps, because they are.

    It's just I love actual railways slightly more than I love good architecture, and wish we could have run them less extravagantly so they made more money. That way, they might have avoided the clutches of the odious pen-pushers of the DfT.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,947
    edited July 2023
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited July 2023

    Nigelb said:

    Labour urged to work with Tories to counter ‘ignorant’ climate policy attacks
    Tory former minister and chair of Climate Change Committee condemns ‘absolutely unacceptable’ attacks on Labour stance
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/25/labour-urged-to-work-with-tories-to-counter-ignorant-climate-policy-attacks

    But Shappsy is getting some big anti- green wins against woke Labour.

    They might be disingenuous wins, but a win is a win.
    Kicking a ball into an empty net is easy, unless you're Diana Ross.

    Labour needs to find the backbone to defend its policies and to explain them. The Tories might have more trouble then.
    Indeed. ULEZ for instance isn't a particularly difficult sell. Sell it to breathers of air, not drivers of cars. Wouldn't you like to go out and about and not be poisoned by deadly particulates?

    Complaining about having to justify your own policy isn't a good look.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,079

    Off topic (but it is about politics): Here are the ratings for all 50 US governors. Republican Phil Scott of Vermont leads the list: https://pro.morningconsult.com/analysis/governor-approval-ratings-july-2023 (Not all that long ago, Republicans dominated the top ten.)

    I think it fair to say that California's Gavin Newsom under performs, given how Democratic that state is. (Perhaps he should invite more people to join him at the French Laundry.)

    What I find interesting is that three of the most popular Governors are in States that don't - errr... - swing their way:

    Andy Bashear (D) in Kentucky
    Chris Sununu (R) in New Hampshire
    Phil Scott (R) in Vermont

    It's also interesting that not a single Governor has negative net approval ratings.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    I don’t think it has any toilets. That’s the point. It has no waiting room, no proper entrance, no refreshment, no sheltered seating, no trees, no landscaping, no canopy, nothing at all: the whole design is - I believe - meant to be as ugly and uninviting as possible so no one is tempted to linger a moment more than they have to

    How nice for the local commuters. Going there every day
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,528

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,947
    edited July 2023
    What so this new station has no bogs at all... how does that get planning permission?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CatMan said:

    IMF Growth forecast is out.

    UK 0.4% in 2023, but Germany -0.3%, so everything is fine, no problems whatsoever.

    https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/Issues/2023/07/10/world-economic-outlook-update-july-2023

    Spain forecast to have the fastest growth of major advanced economies this year there, then the US. Next year Canada, France and Germany as well as Spain expected to grow faster than the USA.

    India projected to have the fastest global growth overall
    Given the mess France is in I struggle to see how they will hit the forecast
    Conservatives supporting Macron's economic reforms in the French Parliament even if Socialists and Le Pen's party opposed
    LR are shit scared of being dragged down by Macron, their support is tenuous at best.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,079

    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
    RFK believes that Covid was engineered not to kill Jews.

    Think about that for a second.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,131
    A
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    Leon probably loves St Pancras. Yet the building of St Pancras cost the Midland Railway so much, that the northern extension to Manchester a decade later was done on a shoestring. Manchester Central therefore had a brilliant overall roof, but a load of 'temporary' wooden buildings - a wooden 1970s Kings Cross - in front of it. Which were so temporary that they lasted until the closure of the station, eighty years later.
    I have to admit, I also love St Pancras. And Bristol Temple Meads. And the ridiculous Aberystwyth Station. And the Kilsby Vents. And I'm sure I would have stood in awe before the Euston Arch.

    I also consider Birmingham New Street, Gloucester, Euston and Stafford stations to be shitheaps, because they are.

    It's just I love actual railways slightly more than I love good architecture, and wish we could have run them less extravagantly so they made more money. That way, they might have avoided the clutches of the odious pen-pushers of the DfT.
    Crystal Palace was the cheap railway shed option - they ran out of time to build it “properly”,

    Some magnificent stuff has been done with permanent awning style structures, for example.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,942
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    I struggle to see how that could be the case. They would surely have been closed and demolished with less fuss than their more invested-in counterparts.
    But ugly stations would have added to the sum of human unhappiness, which apparently is what at least 1/3 of PB desires
    Unfortunately, there is a slice of human psyche that finds satisfaction in unhappiness. Plenty of media products, factual and fictional, have grown fat on that insight.

    There's also a streak of selfishness and stinginess that says that the public deserve no more than the minimal functionality.

    @JosiasJessop is probably right- this was done to a budget, and that budget wasn't enough to stretch to civilising features.
    Disabled people might say that being able to access the platforms is a 'civilising' feature. IMO that's what most of the complaints about the structure is: the footbridge, ramps and lifts to allow accessibility to what are already raised platforms.

    Architects love this sort of thing. They would have designed a station that cost a billion pounds to build, and would have Leon flooding it with his little man-babies from as far as Lviv. The the client adds constraints. It needs to be accessible. We got fined because some scrote dropped a brick onto the head of someone below. Potential future overhead electrification means we need x amount of headroom. Most of all: we need it for y amount.

    And hence architects are *really* limited in what they can do. If you want to (say) drop accessibility requirements, that would both save a lot of money and make it look a lot better. But would also lead to the station not opening because it did not meet requirements.

    Again, I'd love people to come up with their alternatives.
    Maybe some trees? And a canopy?
    How do you get trees on an elevated platform?

    Canopies: fair enough, but they are costly. And probably would not be seen on the elevation you first complained about.

    I mean trees and canopies in front of the station. The elevation I have provided is the FRONT of the station ffs. Not some ugly loading bay at the back

    And yes, amazingly, I like St Pancras

    I actually get your point about cost. If this station had a budget of £1m I’d say well ok. There wasn’t much they could do

    £35 fucking million. To produce THAT

    Also, why on earth are you defending it? Aren’t you a railway geek? People will support railways if they beautiful or fast or uplifting or impressive, not if they are deliberately depressing, joyless, mean and off putting

    Ditto all developments
    Not exactly Adlestrop.
    But good for an addled strop.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    The Ye of 2024? Interesting as he is (at least currently) a WAY better shill for Trump that Kanye West ever was.

    Sad but true.
    Nah

    the Democrats are Trumps best shills as they want him as the GOP candidate.
    NOT THIS DEMOCRAT. And I am FAR from alone.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392
    edited July 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
    RFK believes that Covid was engineered not to kill Jews.

    Think about that for a second.
    Oh Ive read all of that but loads of politicians come up with daft nonsense and then have to correct themselves when the are in power. Biden is so far out of it he could be thinking anything and yet people will vote for him.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,612
    edited July 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
    RFKjr is NOT a serious candidate/alternative for President.

    No more than Kanye West was. Or Lyndon LaRouche, though at least HE wasn't a 100% GOP Con-job.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392

    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
    RFKjr is NOT a serious candidate/alternative for President.

    No more than Kanye West was. Or Lyndon LaRouche, though at least HE wasn't a 100% GOP Con-job.
    And democrats said that of Trump and then he got elected.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,125

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Alanbrooke said that he is struggling to think of an American politician who isn't a mendacious grifter.

    This may help Alanbrooke, and those who are similarly struggling:
    https://pro.morningconsult.com/analysis/governor-approval-ratings-july-2023

    From those ratings I would conclude that most Americans believe that their governor is not a mendacious grifter. (No doubt a few Americans like mendacious grifters as governors, but not enough to show up in those polls.)

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
    RFK believes that Covid was engineered not to kill Jews.

    Think about that for a second.
    Oh Ive read all of that but loads of politicians come up with daft nonsense and then have to correct themselves when the are in power. Biden is so far out of it he could be thinking anything and yet people will vote for him.
    If you think that RFKjr's rantings are just occasional "daft nonsense" then you clearly know diddly-squat about his so-called career the last decade or so.

    He once was a powerful advocate for the environment, where he made some truly significant contributions; for example, his role in helping clean up the open sewer that was the Hudson River.

    However, he's subsequently gone full nut-bag 24/7/365 + leap days.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,162
    edited July 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    They really don’t want you to hang around. Not even for a pee. Once you understand that it all makes sense. Even the intense ugliness

    Look. I’ve located the actual entrance (where the ground floor lift is). What does that dark scary void say to you? What would it say on a dank January evening?





  • viewcode said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Interesting? Yes. Yes, he is certainly that. :)
    Ah yes, I forgot, in leftiyland diversity = more conformity. Wouldnt do to have different viewpoints,
    Batshit crazy certainly is an alternative viewpoint.

    Sadly it'd be mainstream for today's GOP.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    Hoorah, never knew there was one: because, I now learn, there wasn't until February this year. I am flying to Inverness tomorrow, and I am here to tell you, contra Leon, that I don't give a tupenny feck what it looks like provided there are trains there.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Also, what the fuck is this:

    “It's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate”

    Did the Victorians ever think like that? Did the early designers of the Tube? “Oh it’s only for the locals, put up a brick shed that looks like a prison toilet block”

    No. They took care. They also wanted to sell their train lines as things to use. The uplifting or cosy or welcoming station said “come in here, let us whisk you away”

    Thanet Parkway…. Does not
    Which was in many ways unfortunate, as it meant the railways, particularly lightly used country railways, became much more expensive and inflexible than they needed to be.
    Are you actually arguing it was unfortunate they built beautiful stations and it would have been better if they’d thrown up toilet blocks? Coz they are easier to demolish? Or what?
    I am saying that if they had made railways cheaper to run by - for example - building wooden halts at regular intervals rather than Gothic fantasies at distances the economics of rural branch lines might have been rather more helpful and perhaps not quite so many of them would have been shut.
    Leon probably loves St Pancras. Yet the building of St Pancras cost the Midland Railway so much, that the northern extension to Manchester a decade later was done on a shoestring. Manchester Central therefore had a brilliant overall roof, but a load of 'temporary' wooden buildings - a wooden 1970s Kings Cross - in front of it. Which were so temporary that they lasted until the closure of the station, eighty years later.
    I have to admit, I also love St Pancras. And Bristol Temple Meads. And the ridiculous Aberystwyth Station. And the Kilsby Vents. And I'm sure I would have stood in awe before the Euston Arch.

    I also consider Birmingham New Street, Gloucester, Euston and Stafford stations to be shitheaps, because they are.

    It's just I love actual railways slightly more than I love good architecture, and wish we could have run them less extravagantly so they made more money. That way, they might have avoided the clutches of the odious pen-pushers of the DfT.
    GWR's Snow Hill Station was stunning, so they razed it to the ground. I remember remnants of the carcass but not the station. New Street never looked like a station in my day just an appendage to a shopping centre.

    http://disused-stations.org.uk/b/birmingham_snow_hill/28_snow_hill_frontage_1925_geoffrey_skelsey.jpg

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Bit of a bummer as I recently started a monthly (unpaid) column there.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    re; Ron DeSantis, hope that anyone who was injured in automobile accident is OK, and wish them speedy recovery.

    That said, rather ironic seeing has how RDS campaign IS a car crash, politically speaking.

    Worth noting that so was John McCain's campaign in 2007 . . . before he made his major course correction that led to JMcC winning the 2008 GOP nomination.

    On the OTHER hand, the car crash that was Rudy Giuliani's campaign that same cycle, led to . . . a truly spectacular pile-up just over a decade later, featuring an actual junk-yard . . . and a pack of truly vicious junk-yard curs . . .

    The most interesting candidate atm is RFK,
    Is he though? He seems like a pretty bog standard conspiracist anti-establishment type. Unconventional compared to others (less so than it used to be, given the election deniers etc), but predictable all the same.
    The question is who will give the US the change it needs, Biden and Trump both are status quo men, RDS or RFK might change something. who knows ?
    RFK believes that Covid was engineered not to kill Jews.

    Think about that for a second.
    Oh Ive read all of that but loads of politicians come up with daft nonsense and then have to correct themselves when the are in power. Biden is so far out of it he could be thinking anything and yet people will vote for him.
    If you think that RFKjr's rantings are just occasional "daft nonsense" then you clearly know diddly-squat about his so-called career the last decade or so.

    He once was a powerful advocate for the environment, where he made some truly significant contributions; for example, his role in helping clean up the open sewer that was the Hudson River.

    However, he's subsequently gone full nut-bag 24/7/365 + leap days.
    I freely admit I dont follow the guy I am interested in my own country not yours. But seen from this side of the Atlantic the US is a monumental shitshow and heading to Banana Republic territiry,
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,865
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Have you ever wondered why some cities are just so much nicer than others?

    Well, it's probably because they have good "Third Places."

    What is a Third Place? It's wherever you go when you're not at home or at work...

    https://twitter.com/culturaltutor/status/1683631168711798784

    I brought this up yesterday - the public realm is so important to people's wellbeing, particularly in a economy where millions are WFH in a tiny flat or new build copy and paste.

    HS2 must not water down its station designs. If you think the station above is bad, check out the new ones in suburban Scotland (Inverness Airport, for example). The redevelopment of High Streets is also an essential public investment.
    High streets are not important to most people, we never fucking go there. Redeveloping them is a total waste of money. Turn them residential and tell the oxfam shops to fuck off
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,392

    Alanbrooke said that he is struggling to think of an American politician who isn't a mendacious grifter.

    This may help Alanbrooke, and those who are similarly struggling:
    https://pro.morningconsult.com/analysis/governor-approval-ratings-july-2023

    From those ratings I would conclude that most Americans believe that their governor is not a mendacious grifter. (No doubt a few Americans like mendacious grifters as governors, but not enough to show up in those polls.)

    And how many of those are standing for President ?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,131
    A
    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Hey @Sunil_Prasannan are you going to visit Britain’s newest railway station?

    It’s a thing of beauty alright. Look at that bench. It’s our version of St Pancras


    It's just a car park with a station attached. [Edit] Who wants to look at it? You can't even see anything from the platforms cos noise barriers. Or may be wind barriers. No namby pamby canopied roof for the hardy Commuters of Kent, or perhaps they are Kentich Commuters, I can never remember which. Just a few surplus shelters left over from the last but three Brexit processing camp plans.

    See air photo here

    https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/more-travel-help/thanet-parkway-station
    It’s extraordinarily hideous and unfriendly. How can architects and planners still get away with buildings this bad?

    As you note, there is no shelter from the weather. So if you alight from the train and have to wait for a car, taxi (highly likely) and it’s raining: tough shit

    Mind boggling
    I have seen worse, tbh. Stations east of That London aren't great.
    It's also unnecessary now apparently, due to WFH.

    But it's in keeping with the utterly thoughtless over-development which is ruining Thanet.
    More pictures: https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/

    Ngk, I dunno. It isn't great - as you correctly point out, that flat expanse will be bleak and bitter in winter. But it's a parkway, and it's only there to serve the commuters in the local estate. It'll never be loved, but it's functional enough. It's similar to some others I've seen, and better in some cases.

    Tell you what. I'll wait for Sunil or Geoff Marshal to go to it and see what they say
    Why the fuck is “functional enough” ever acceptable?!

    I find mindsets like yours entirely incomprehensible
    When I am working away I travel hundreds of miles by train at inconvenient hours with unpleasant people each week. You fly from point to point on expenses. When you go cattle-truck class it's an adventure. When I go cattle-truck class it's Sunday. Things like being clean, dry, warm, arriving on time, having a friendly guard, possibly a place to sit down and have a cup of tea and not be stabbed/panhandled/shit myself are priorities for me. Things like chocolates on pillows and the nearest whorehouse are priorities for you.

    Yes, we are mutually incomprehensible. Why is this a surprise?
    But you won’t be clean dry and warm at that station, as Thanet Parkway has no waiting room, and no place to shelter from the weather, and nowhere to get a cup of tea

    So even by your bizarre, lowbrow, masochistic and dreary standards, it fails as architecture
    "no place to shelter from the weather,"

    That's not what the Network Rail site indicates.
    https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/kent/thanet-parkway-station/
    It doesn’t have any covered waiting area. I checked the station website



    NO ACCESSIBLE TOILETS!!!

    Fuck it. Bomb it flat.

    (Have disabled rellies)
    I didn't think that was even legal. I thought all new buildings had to have them.
    Aiui only if the building has toilets. If it does not, it does not need accessible toilets.
    35 million quid and they couldn't even stick in a single disabled bog ???
    They really don’t want you to hang around. Not even for a pee. Once you understand that it all makes sense. Even the intense ugliness

    Look. I’ve located the actual entrance (where the ground floor lift is). What does that dark scary void say to you? What would it say on a dank January evening?





    Open the blast doors! Open the blast doors!

    Actually, that’s unfair. The Empire had serious taste in design. Star Destroyers look awesome.

    Though H&S was not on the priority list. Railings at the edge of bottomless abysses? Controls accessible without free climbing?
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