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A Missed Opportunity – politicalbetting.com

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  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,932
    Leon said:

    You read one book. This guy read 200 and is “considerably smarter than you”
    The guy who wrote Case Closed, Gerald Posner, has read about 2,000.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    RobD said:

    That they briefed against him to the press?
    That it happens to very many people as well?

    https://press.which.co.uk/whichpressreleases/some-banks-wrongly-closing-customer-accounts-in-more-than-three-in-10-disputed-cases/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    The sleeping guards and broken cameras were notorious at that holding facility. The US specialities in having lot and lots of really badly maintained and run prisons.
    And yet he was the one guy who should have been on Ultra Suicide watch and in Total Protection, given the significance of the allegations and names surrounding him

    I don’t know if he topped himself or was offed. I know I can’t breezily dismiss the idea he was conveniently silenced by simply saying “oh American prisons are rubbish”


    QED. Weak thinking

  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    CIFAS warnings and the fact he has substantial income from America.

    Open a new bank account with any bank* in the UK one of the eligibility questions they ask you are do you have income from America.
    Not newsworthy though, presumably banks can bank for people or not as they choose, provided they don't make the decision on the basis of a protected characteristic.

    But what is Coutts for anyway? It's just extreme snobbery, and now that cheques are no longer a thing it has lost 98% of its flex value anyway.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    You have to fill in a shit tonne of paper work to send to the Yank regulators.
    Thanks. So not just the punter who has to deal with US tax people, then.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505

    I struggle to find Coutts's policy on customers interesting. I'm equally fine with them giving Farage an account or not giving one. I don't care if they have political views, or what they are, and I only mildly care if they allegedly told a fib to him.

    What am I missing?
    I could go into work tomorrow. I could (actually, I could ask someone I know) to put a flag on certain systems about any dealings with a certain ex-Communist former MP. This flag would be picked up several agencies used by a number of banks to decide whether you are a risk or not.

    Within a day his bank would close the former MPs accounts without telling him why. He would find it fairly difficult to find a bank that would take his business, short of spending a fair bit of money on a lawyer.

    Always worry about what they are doing to shitheads and scumbags.

    Because they will do it, next, to black people after breakfast, Jews by lunchtime and they will do it to you before supper.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    Leon said:

    You honestly don’t think there was a conspiracy to take out JFK?

    It likely involved organised crime - mafia - and some low level government intel enemies of jfk

    As I say, I found 'Case Closed' compelling. It knocked every theory into a cocked hat. Just nailed it all down. Terrific piece of work imo.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Leon said:

    And yet he was the one guy who should have been on Ultra Suicide watch and in Total Protection, given the significance of the allegations and names surrounding him

    I don’t know if he topped himself or was offed. I know I can’t breezily dismiss the idea he was conveniently silenced by simply saying “oh American prisons are rubbish”


    QED. Weak thinking

    It's helpful to analyse these questions by asking, would I bet on them? And subdivide the no bets into just don't know, or have a view but wouldn't stake money on it. For me this is a just don't know. There were an unbelievable number of unbelievably rich and powerful men wanting him dead, but OTOH if he foresaw happening to him what's happened to Maxwell suicide looks a reasonable reaction.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited July 2023

    I could go into work tomorrow. I could (actually, I could ask someone I know) to put a flag on certain systems about any dealings with a certain ex-Communist former MP. This flag would be picked up several agencies used by a number of banks to decide whether you are a risk or not.

    Within a day his bank would close the former MPs accounts without telling him why. He would find it fairly difficult to find a bank that would take his business, short of spending a fair bit of money on a lawyer.

    Always worry about what they are doing to shitheads and scumbags.

    Because they will do it, next, to black people after breakfast, Jews by lunchtime and they will do it to you before supper.
    Or they'll do it to you because a scumbag has tried to defraud you.

    A more informal Which piece on the problem.

    https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/locked-out-how-your-bank-could-shut-down-your-financial-life-aKeMd1g3G2XH
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    Leon said:

    And yet he was the one guy who should have been on Ultra Suicide watch and in Total Protection, given the significance of the allegations and names surrounding him

    I don’t know if he topped himself or was offed. I know I can’t breezily dismiss the idea he was conveniently silenced by simply saying “oh American prisons are rubbish”


    QED. Weak thinking

    Read some accounts of how the prison system in the US works. A few places like the Supermaxes are actually properly funded, run and staffed.

    The Prison Industrial Complex, as a whole, is crap and heavily, heavily documented as that.

    For example, the guards in that prison took legal action about the number of cameras that didn't work - on the grounds of personal safety. Repeatedly, over the years.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,270
    felix said:

    Plenty of Labour MPs educate their children privately. And who can forget Harriet Harman who sent her child from Dulwich to St Olaves Grammar a super selective grammar. She had the gall to say she wanted every state school to be like St Olaves!😂
    This kind of shit pisses me off too, believe me.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    Epstein could, of course, be explained by both theories together

    Ie he was persuaded to kill himself at a certain time and in a certain way, with the inducement that some people close to him would then be spared further horrible persecution

    He was assured that despite being on suicide watch “we’ll make sure the guards are sleeping and the cameras aren’t working, you will have two hours to do this”

    That seems quite plausible. Explains everything

    Let’s face it, a lot of extremely powerful people wanted him permanently silenced before the trial

    Is that suicide or murder?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    Carnyx said:

    Or they'll do it to you because a scumbag has tried to defraud you.

    A more informal Which piece on the problem.

    https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/locked-out-how-your-bank-could-shut-down-your-financial-life-aKeMd1g3G2XH
    Indeed.

    This can happen to anyone. It's why I care about Post Office staff. Even though I have no intention of ever being one.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    This kind of shit pisses me off too, believe me.
    I do. I'm more comfortable being a cynical Conservative than any of the alternatives I've encountered on the political field.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    edited July 2023
    Miklosvar said:

    It's helpful to analyse these questions by asking, would I bet on them? And subdivide the no bets into just don't know, or have a view but wouldn't stake money on it. For me this is a just don't know. There were an unbelievable number of unbelievably rich and powerful men wanting him dead, but OTOH if he foresaw happening to him what's happened to Maxwell suicide looks a reasonable reaction.
    See my later comment. A highly plausible explanation is that he was persuaded to top himself and given a specific time when he could do it, “unwatched” without anyone else getting into trouble

    He was simultaneously offered far worse alternatives. A life of terror in jail and his loved ones assailed
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888
    On conspiracy theories:

    It is rare for vast reams of data to be recorded during noteworthy events. There are often a few photos or grainy videos, some phone call data, perhaps nowadays some emails. Witness statements are often contradictory and jumbled, even from the same person.

    These contradictions - and even blatant unknowns the authorities have not been able to sort out - are fertile ground for people with perverse minds or ill-intent to invent theories that proclaim that only *they* know the truth.

    As an example, look at 9/11 and the way conspiracy theorists have jumped on every witness statement that backs whatever their view is that day. And the way those theories are often utterly contradictory with each other.

    IMV the time to suspect something is up is when everything looks too clean and tidy, as if evidence has been invented to fit a story.

    In most of the cases @Leon mentions, the evidence is muddy and unclear. That makes fertile ground for conspiracy theories, but also fits the way things usually happens.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Indeed.

    This can happen to anyone. It's why I care about Post Office staff. Even though I have no intention of ever being one.

    "Perhaps the most extraordinary aspect of Cifas markers is that your provider doesn’t have to tell you if it’s recording one. This means you may only discover its existence after having applications to other firms declined. And this in itself can dent your credit score.

    Cifas is able to behave in this way because it’s a membership body for the financial industry. It has no statutory footing and little oversight beyond the FOS, which mainly scrutinises individual decisions."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,228

    🚨 GB News are once again promoting Covid conspiracy theories.

    Beverley Turner, GB News presenter, pushing an antisemitic conspiracy theory that Jews engineered Covid.

    This is clearly antisemitic - will @GBNEWS be taking action? We doubt it.

    Last week we called out GB News for platforming the far right and individuals with histories of racism and crank conspiracy theories.

    This week a presenter is sharing an antisemitic conspiracy theory.

    What's coming next?




    https://twitter.com/hopenothate/status/1681310878447312897

    I find it deeply implausible that it harms certain ethnicities less.

    This reminds me that one of the best weapons against Covid was invented by a lady from Israel. She developed an inhaler that destroyed Covid whilst it was incubating in the upper respiratory tract (I believe it does this for 24 hours). An amazing invention for all forms of coronavirus and all sorts of respiratory diseases I'd imagine - it did not require a specific targeted compound. This was being tested, including tests in the UK but then all went quiet. Is there a conspiracy in that? *That* wouldn't suprise me, but not a 'racist' disease - sounds like something out of that godawful Bond film.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,204
    Sandpit said:

    Farage’s assumption is that the BBC and FT were replying on sources inside the bank, reported as being “familiar with” the decision, who were breaching client confidentiality to do so.

    I’m sure other Coutts clients are happy to know that bank employees will tip off journalists, if they became the story.
    It seems to me that after Farage made his video, journalists went to Coutts looking for a quote and were given a fairly generic statement about eligibility criteria which then became the story, even though there was never an explicit claim that this was the reason for closing Farage's accounts.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,923
    ydoethur said:

    I was five years after you. Thinking back, there were some who were '99' that were undergrads, so it must have changed in 2000.

    The only curious anomaly was it was the date you started, not the date you started the current degree. So I was 1 then 01 all the way to 2009 when I got my one with initials only.
    My fog induced brain showing.
    No, you were right. I don't know how I misremembered, but I did.
    We were sov6@aber.ac.uk
    And post graduates sov96@aber.ac.uk

    But I have some vague recollection about not changing even if you graduated.
    It was all so long ago now I completely forget.

    I did think, a few years ago, that there have probably been a few subsequent sov6's (in 2006 and 2016) but hey ho...........
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Carnyx said:


    "Perhaps the most extraordinary aspect of Cifas markers is that your provider doesn’t have to tell you if it’s recording one. This means you may only discover its existence after having applications to other firms declined. And this in itself can dent your credit score.

    Cifas is able to behave in this way because it’s a membership body for the financial industry. It has no statutory footing and little oversight beyond the FOS, which mainly scrutinises individual decisions."
    Isn't this all part and parcel of what is REALLY meant by "deregulation of the financial sector"?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Carnyx said:


    "Perhaps the most extraordinary aspect of Cifas markers is that your provider doesn’t have to tell you if it’s recording one. This means you may only discover its existence after having applications to other firms declined. And this in itself can dent your credit score.

    Cifas is able to behave in this way because it’s a membership body for the financial industry. It has no statutory footing and little oversight beyond the FOS, which mainly scrutinises individual decisions."
    That comes across as cartel behaviour, blacklisting someone across an entire industry, no discussion allowed with the victim.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 5,173
    ydoethur said:

    Hmmm.

    The county membership will be happy to see the back of the Hundred, less so the county boards.

    I suspect that getting rid of the Blast will be much less popular.
    To the casual observer it all seems a bit deckchairs on the Titanic. Cricket suffers from the same problem that the large majority of sports do in England, other of course than the almighty football: a terminal lack of cash. Quite how replacing one T20 competition with another is going to solve that problem is quite beyond me. About the best that can be said is that at least they're not doing as badly as athletics.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,700

    There's so much I want to say about this case but cannot but LOL at the Telegraph graphic.


    If that quote is a true representation of their position it is absolutely acceptable. Organisations should be allowed to consider whether someone's reputation and views would be deleterious to their own reputation by association. It is not just his views on Brexit, it is his broader positions on immigrants and also accusations of racism that he seems not to deny (Alan Sked quote in this article) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/26/ukip-founder-alan-sked-party-become-frankensteins-monster

    I wouldn't have him as a client. I value the reputation of my business.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,497

    Give state schools more resources and see what they can do. Right now you are simply saying that someone on a motorbike can go faster than someone who is running. Of course they can.
    Right now the people who are being abandoned are the kids growing up under a government that is cutting spending per pupil.
    What do you want to cut to provide the extra spending? Each extra 1000£ spending per head is going to cost about 12 billion
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,850
    ydoethur said:

    The conspiracy theories I came across are Holocaust Denial, the Eleanor Butler pre-contract, the Christ Myth theory and Shakespeare authorship.

    None of them have a 'tiny seed of truth' in them.
    Or "Jews knew about 9/11 before it happened and didn't go to work that day."
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,497

    Happy to oblige.

    What do they need cash for?

    Is it

    a) to buy illegal drugs
    b) to take illegal drugs or
    c) to pay someone outside the glare of HMRC

    ?
    To keep my spending private from companies like tesco's and the government. Which part do you fail to understand? It is none of their business
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    A

    Isn't this all part and parcel of what is REALLY meant by "deregulation of the financial sector"?
    It's actually a response to regulation and scandals. You don't want to be accidentally running an account for Le Grande Fromage in Le Milieu - big penalties for the bank, you lose your bonus, rude things in the press.

    So you setup a system that if you get a warning, no matter how slight, then you close the accounts instantly.

    Of course a percentage of these alerts are going to be false alarms. But there is no reason to worry about a tiny percentage of people, is there?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    Leon said:

    You read one book. This guy read 200 and is “considerably smarter than you”
    Lol. So insecure. Try the book when you have the time. Case Closed. It's best of breed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    A
    Pagan2 said:

    To keep my spending private from companies like tesco's and the government. Which part do you fail to understand? It is none of their business
    Too right. A chap purchasing plutonium for his own deterrent is no-one else's business. Pshaw!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    pigeon said:

    To the casual observer it all seems a bit deckchairs on the Titanic. Cricket suffers from the same problem that the large majority of sports do in England, other of course than the almighty football: a terminal lack of cash. Quite how replacing one T20 competition with another is going to solve that problem is quite beyond me. About the best that can be said is that at least they're not doing as badly as athletics.
    But there isn’t a lack of cash in cricket per se. T20 means money is flooding into the game, and lots of English players are doing very nicely

    The ashes shows that the right Tests can still generate major money

    Etc

    The problem is the structure of English cricket hasn’t caught up with the Indian revolution

    We need to accept that the domestic season (internationals apart) will now revolve around the Indian calendar. Just as other continents have had to accept that europe is supreme in football and the EPL dominant on top of that (for now)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    A
    Pagan2 said:

    What do you want to cut to provide the extra spending? Each extra 1000£ spending per head is going to cost about 12 billion
    If we sell the DfE into slavery, how much would that raise?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,850
    Carnyx said:

    On that last point, it's obviously a shite job of virus design: just noticed this

    https://twitter.com/daverich1/status/1681316430317494273
    Surely that's just evidence that the Jews control the ONS?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,080

    A

    If we sell the DfE into slavery, how much would that raise?
    If we go on the value of their capabilities, about 38p?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    Leon said:

    Here’s another one that can’t be easily dismissed (unlike Baconism and QAnon etc)

    Epstein. Suicide or not?

    The @kinabalu school of witless middlebrow retired-accountant Radio 4 Brian of Britain skepticism will chortle and say Oh of course that’s a mad conspiracy theory

    Really? There are, to say the least, quite a few jarring elements. The sleeping guards. The miraculously malfunctioning cameras. And so forth

    'And so forth'

    I'm with milkybar on this one actually. Maybe suicide, maybe not. But if pushed I'd say yep suicide. God knows he had reason.

    As for middlebrow, you flatter me there. I'm more nobrow really.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    kinabalu said:

    Lol. So insecure. Try the book when you have the time. Case Closed. It's best of breed.
    I’m not claiming I’m smarter than you. We know this. I’m claiming I have a hunch that HE is smarter than you. Which he is

    Without giving his identity away the fact he he a multi multi millionaire from an ongoing career in TV and movies and you are a retired accountant with a golf handicap gives me the sense my hunch might just be right
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    .
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, I now have a regular column in a Regulatory/Compliance newsletter, with a worldwide audience. With my first column tomorrow - on crisis management!

    Of course I have to endure the indignity of American spelling but the photo they've taken of me is rather nice. So I shall endure this as stoically as I can.

    If anyone is professionally interested just VM me.

    Congratulations, and good luck with the column!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,850

    There's so much I want to say about this case but cannot but LOL at the Telegraph graphic.


    Wait: didn't Farage campaign that businesses have the right to choose their customers?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    A
    Leon said:

    I’m not claiming I’m smarter than you. We know this. I’m claiming I have a hunch that HE is smarter than you. Which he is

    Without giving his identity away the fact he he a multi multi millionaire from an ongoing career in TV and movies and you are a retired accountant with a golf handicap gives me the sense my hunch might just be right
    So you are backing a chap whose skill is in making stories sell... OK.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,080
    Meanwhile, in WFH news,

    During the year-long period of lockdown, researchers scrutinized misconduct reports relating to 162 traders. The resulting data unveiled a startling truth: traders working from home had a modest 7.3% chance of sparking a misconduct alert, while their office-going brethren had a spine-chilling 37.6% probability.


    https://fortune.com/2023/07/18/new-research-suggests-bankers-are-5-times-less-likely-engage-financial-misconduct-working-home-careers-finance-gleb-tsipursky/amp/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,291
    Leon said:

    I’d be curious if there is any evidence to back up this apparently outlandish claim. Covid sparing East Asians and Jews?!

    Seems unlikely. But is there a kernel of truth from which they’ve confected the walnut whip of nonsense?
    There was a paper about varying response to the virus based on ethnicity, but it doesn’t say what he claims.
    https://twitter.com/GenomeNathan/status/1680492167331020800

    That’s not a ‘kernel of truth’, but rather a wild conclusion drawn from a result of no great statistical significance.

    The idea that it’s possible to engineer a virus with such a purpose is even madder - since even if we had the required knowledge of worldwide population genetics, which we don’t, and the technology to target pathogenic viruses in such a manner, which we don’t, any such virus will start to mutate as soon as it’s released anyway.

    If viruses can jump species, what kind of hurdle is the minor variation across difference groups of people ?

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    Leon said:

    I’m not claiming I’m smarter than you. We know this. I’m claiming I have a hunch that HE is smarter than you. Which he is

    Without giving his identity away the fact he he a multi multi millionaire from an ongoing career in TV and movies and you are a retired accountant with a golf handicap gives me the sense my hunch might just be right
    Is it Bruce Willis?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,700
    felix said:

    I do. I'm more comfortable being a cynical Conservative than any of the alternatives I've encountered on the political field.
    Anecdotal experience: I went to a bog standard comp which was shit. Good fortune in my business career meant I was able to privately educate my kids. My view based on that limited experience (but also through speaking with others) that the gulf of difference between the sectors has a lot less to do with funding (though this obviously has influence) but more to do with attitude. Bog standard comps are happy with mediocrity. The school I went to revelled in it! Independent schools have higher expectations and this (together with more pushy parents) results in a cumulative advantage. I suspect if you experimented by giving a crap comp the same funds per pupil it would still remain a crap comp.

    In the end, whether businesses or state sector institutions, it is all about ethos. I am sure there are plenty of state schools (I can think of at least one in my area) that get equal results to some independents even though they have lower funding. It is achieved by good leadership and ethos and teachers with high expectations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    A

    Meanwhile, in WFH news,

    During the year-long period of lockdown, researchers scrutinized misconduct reports relating to 162 traders. The resulting data unveiled a startling truth: traders working from home had a modest 7.3% chance of sparking a misconduct alert, while their office-going brethren had a spine-chilling 37.6% probability.


    https://fortune.com/2023/07/18/new-research-suggests-bankers-are-5-times-less-likely-engage-financial-misconduct-working-home-careers-finance-gleb-tsipursky/amp/

    That’s because the ones WFH can get up to all kinds of shit, unnoticed.

    Remember - a drop in reported crimes can me that crimes are not being reported.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,080
    rcs1000 said:

    Wait: didn't Farage campaign that businesses have the right to choose their customers?

    You know the meme about face-eating leopards?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,286

    A

    That’s because the ones WFH can get up to all kinds of shit, unnoticed.

    Remember - a drop in reported crimes can me that crimes are not being reported.
    Exactly. The headline should be that they are five times less likely to trigger a "misconduct alert", whatever that is. No statistics on how often misconduct is actually happening.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    The guy who wrote Case Closed, Gerald Posner, has read about 2,000.
    People are (understandably) reluctant to accept that a Sun King was blotted out by a no-mark dweeb but such is life sometimes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,228
    Sandpit said:

    His account with the Coutts was closed by the bank, and he’s been unable to open an account with any other bank. Coutts apparently briefed the media that his account was closed because he was insufficiently wealthy, but internal documents disclosed to Farage under freedom of information laws suggest that he was specifically targeted for account closure because of his political views.

    Telegraph are now running this as their lead story. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/18/nigel-farage-coutts-bank-account-closed-align-with-values/
    I'm certainly not in the market, but is there a new 'classy' bank that the upper crust uses now that Coutts seems to be going chavvy?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    rcs1000 said:

    Or "Jews knew about 9/11 before it happened and didn't go to work that day."
    Father of a friend of mine got into conspiracy theories via 9/11. It was his gateway drug

    Was perfectly sane before that. No interest in crackpot theories. Then he started to read around 9/11, became convinced it was hoaxed, and is now so far down Lunatic Boulevard he’s beyond Flat Earth and he believes the entire universe is a
    Hoax and nothing existed before 1920

    He laughs at QAnon-ers as “gullible dupes swallowing establishment lies”

    All this is only going to get worse as AI makes objective truth redundant. It’s a serious problem (on top of deepfakes etc)

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,196
    ydoethur said:

    The more perturbing part about this story is not that Coutts closed his account - which given their rules on amounts was probably inevitable - but the suggestion he can't open an account elsewhere.

    There are two possibilities:

    1) That he's lying about being blacklisted to get sympathy;
    2) That he really is being blacklisted for some reason.

    In the case of the latter, it's worth remembering banks have always been able to refuse clients. My grandfather was once offered a large case of whisky to take a client whose account he had refused to transfer from Barclays, because the manager of Barclays was so desperate to get rid of him.

    But he still refused. Bad payer, always in overdraft.
    I have no idea which of your two possibilities is true. But having learned from PB today about the existence of the CIFAS markers - something I was unaware of before now - the second possibility goes from being 'unikely' in my mind to at least a reasonable possibility. Mainly because it stops being a 'conspiracy' which was how I would previously have interpreted it and now becomes the possible result of the action of an individual person or institution which then has far reaching knock on effects with otherwise un-involved institutions.

    Lloyds (to pick a bank at random) don't have to be actively working against Farage. They merely have to be following the guidance of the CIFAS marker. I still have no idea of whether that is what actually happened or not but the fact it is a possibility does seem disturbing to me.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,700

    You know the meme about face-eating leopards?
    Thinking about it, you could make an appropriate bank for Farage by taking the name Coutts and simply removing one vowel and replacing one consonant.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,228
    Nigelb said:

    There was a paper about varying response to the virus based on ethnicity, but it doesn’t say what he claims.
    https://twitter.com/GenomeNathan/status/1680492167331020800

    That’s not a ‘kernel of truth’, but rather a wild conclusion drawn from a result of no great statistical significance.

    The idea that it’s possible to engineer a virus with such a purpose is even madder - since even if we had the required knowledge of worldwide population genetics, which we don’t, and the technology to target pathogenic viruses in such a manner, which we don’t, any such virus will start to mutate as soon as it’s released anyway.

    If viruses can jump species, what kind of hurdle is the minor variation across difference groups of people ?

    Also, Covid picked off the weak. The 'worst affected' populations would, in theory, receive the biggest evolutionary boost.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,683
    Leon said:

    I’m not claiming I’m smarter than you. We know this. I’m claiming I have a hunch that HE is smarter than you. Which he is

    Without giving his identity away the fact he he a multi multi millionaire from an ongoing career in TV and movies and you are a retired accountant with a golf handicap gives me the sense my hunch might just be right
    Generally I have no time for conspiracy theories; and notice that their increasing popularity is extraordinary. Cock up is a far better bet.

    Here are a couple of suspicions that have a bit of legs:

    JFK: The single fact that LHO was placed in a position in which a randomer could effortless kill him before he talked when at that moment he should be the most protected person in the world shouts out.

    Post Office: I find it almost impossible to believe that with all those prosecutions going on of 'people like us' and presumably so many more than usual that somebodies didn't know perfectly well they were sending innocent people to prison.

    Wealth orders: Why are unexplained wealth orders so little used against the unconvicted Mr Bigs?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    I'm certainly not in the market, but is there a new 'classy' bank that the upper crust uses now that Coutts seems to be going chavvy?
    Not an expert either, but I suspect the Swiss banks. The richest person I know banks with UBS.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505

    Also, Covid picked off the weak. The 'worst affected' populations would, in theory, receive the biggest evolutionary boost.
    {Mr Morden has entered the chat, creepily drinking tea with invisible friends}
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773
    Really hard to disagree with @Cyclefree. This was a clear opportunity to support the little guys and girls, take up a populist stance and, oh yes, do the right thing. It’s sad it was not taken up.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    kinabalu said:

    People are (understandably) reluctant to accept that a Sun King was blotted out by a no-mark dweeb but such is life sometimes.
    They said the same about Jesus
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,562
    kinabalu said:

    Yes, disappointing from Badenoch. Despite disliking her politics I'd formed a tentative impression of her as a tough, independently minded, able person. Turns out she's none of those things. Or if she is, the evidence isn't there to demonstrate it. The evidence is more that she's a shallow egotistical politician looking to surf culture war nonsense for advancement in the party. Ah well. It's the easier way, I suppose.

    Yes - I had thought that she might - possibly - be worth paying attention to. But her silence over this has disappointed me.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Anecdotal experience: I went to a bog standard comp which was shit. Good fortune in my business career meant I was able to privately educate my kids. My view based on that limited experience (but also through speaking with others) that the gulf of difference between the sectors has a lot less to do with funding (though this obviously has influence) but more to do with attitude. Bog standard comps are happy with mediocrity. The school I went to revelled in it! Independent schools have higher expectations and this (together with more pushy parents) results in a cumulative advantage. I suspect if you experimented by giving a crap comp the same funds per pupil it would still remain a crap comp.

    In the end, whether businesses or state sector institutions, it is all about ethos. I am sure there are plenty of state schools (I can think of at least one in my area) that get equal results to some independents even though they have lower funding. It is achieved by good leadership and ethos and teachers with high expectations.
    Correct. The idea that more money is always the answer means you're asking the wrong questions, or you're a socialist... and probably both.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,270
    Leon said:

    Father of a friend of mine got into conspiracy theories via 9/11. It was his gateway drug

    Was perfectly sane before that. No interest in crackpot theories. Then he started to read around 9/11, became convinced it was hoaxed, and is now so far down Lunatic Boulevard he’s beyond Flat Earth and he believes the entire universe is a
    Hoax and nothing existed before 1920

    He laughs at QAnon-ers as “gullible dupes swallowing establishment lies”

    All this is only going to get worse as AI makes objective truth redundant. It’s a serious problem (on top of deepfakes etc)

    Why 1920?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    algarkirk said:

    Generally I have no time for conspiracy theories; and notice that their increasing popularity is extraordinary. Cock up is a far better bet.

    Here are a couple of suspicions that have a bit of legs:

    JFK: The single fact that LHO was placed in a position in which a randomer could effortless kill him before he talked when at that moment he should be the most protected person in the world shouts out.

    Post Office: I find it almost impossible to believe that with all those prosecutions going on of 'people like us' and presumably so many more than usual that somebodies didn't know perfectly well they were sending innocent people to prison.

    Wealth orders: Why are unexplained wealth orders so little used against the unconvicted Mr Bigs?
    On the Post Office - the Boiled Frog. The new system was supposed to find fraud. It did. Awesome. Senior people attached themselves to its success. More fraud found. Even more awesome. The few doubters are just haters. And so on, until the shattering realisation that they bet on bullshit. Than the coverup.

    Wealth orders - they are a blunder bus capable of creating massive injustice. See the US, where such confiscations have become legalised theft by the police.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,700
    Leon said:

    Father of a friend of mine got into conspiracy theories via 9/11. It was his gateway drug

    Was perfectly sane before that. No interest in crackpot theories. Then he started to read around 9/11, became convinced it was hoaxed, and is now so far down Lunatic Boulevard he’s beyond Flat Earth and he believes the entire universe is a
    Hoax and nothing existed before 1920

    He laughs at QAnon-ers as “gullible dupes swallowing establishment lies”

    All this is only going to get worse as AI makes objective truth redundant. It’s a serious problem (on top of deepfakes etc)

    Does it not concern you that you are on a similar slippery slope? I would say you are quite vulnerable to such journey. You are not a scientist (clearly) so do not follow Scientific Method and generally stop at the hypothesis stage because the scrutiny and objective data analysis is too unexciting for your journalistic mind. You also spend a lot of time alone. This enables your creative mind to look at anything fanciful and hope that it might be true so much that eventually you convince yourself.

    @kinabalu may well be an accountant (for which I have cruelly teased him - it s a professional peril that he must endure), but I suspect that while you might consider him boring and unimaginative, his analysis is more reliable, probably by a factor of several thousand.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,683
    Leon said:

    Father of a friend of mine got into conspiracy theories via 9/11. It was his gateway drug

    Was perfectly sane before that. No interest in crackpot theories. Then he started to read around 9/11, became convinced it was hoaxed, and is now so far down Lunatic Boulevard he’s beyond Flat Earth and he believes the entire universe is a
    Hoax and nothing existed before 1920

    He laughs at QAnon-ers as “gullible dupes swallowing establishment lies”

    All this is only going to get worse as AI makes objective truth redundant. It’s a serious problem (on top of deepfakes etc)

    There are of course crackpot theories and crackpot theories. It is central to Kant's thinking that time and space don't really exist outside of our experience of them. The great empiricist (and bishop) Berkeley didn't believe any material objects existed at all. Hume believed there was no objective moral difference between destroying the world and scratching his finger.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,270
    felix said:

    Correct. The idea that more money is always the answer means you're asking the wrong questions, or you're a socialist... and probably both.
    Or you've noticed that funding per pupil at private schools is double that at state schools, or that many state schools are in danger of actually falling down, or that teacher retention is at record lows, or...
    Life must be so easy when you can just harrumph "socialist" and not engage your brain in the slightest.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,110
    I know not much the JFK case.

    However, it’s v interesting that, inter alia, LHO had dealings with the Russians, the Cubans, and perhaps the Mafia. And LHO’s own death is very odd.

    America bombed Afghanistan after 9/11 on more tenuous connections.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    felix said:

    Correct. The idea that more money is always the answer means you're asking the wrong questions, or you're a socialist... and probably both.
    Felix, that's tat. It's totally totally tat.
  • The post is very true but Badenoch is concentrating on more important matters like fictional children who are acting as cats.

    I wish someone would take up this issue but while the Business Minister has her attention elsewhere that is less than likely to happen
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,789
    Carnyx said:

    What is the problem with that?
    Money laundering. Tax avoidance
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970

    Why 1920?
    I honestly have no idea. Nor does he as far as I can see

    This kind of theory is not unknown. A university friend of mine has fallen down the Zeitgeist hole (the movie) and is now a serious anti semite (amongst other sad things - it’s caused family ructions). One of his theories is that all history between 400-800AD is “fake”. Charlemagne etc

    Again I’ve no idea why


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    Cyclefree said:

    Yes - I had thought that she might - possibly - be worth paying attention to. But her silence over this has disappointed me.
    I couldn't believe the PO details when I took the time (belatedly) to read properly about it.

    Well done on your various headers about it - and on your new column.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    DavidL said:

    Really hard to disagree with @Cyclefree. This was a clear opportunity to support the little guys and girls, take up a populist stance and, oh yes, do the right thing. It’s sad it was not taken up.

    Why hasn't she, do we think?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,700
    felix said:

    Correct. The idea that more money is always the answer means you're asking the wrong questions, or you're a socialist... and probably both.
    Interestingly, independent schools have engaged in a kind of arms race over the years that have pushed up fees dramatically so that the cost per pupil is probably massively distorted anyway. This "arms race" was/is for more and more luxurious facilities, often in the sporting or arts areas. Many parents I have known have questioned whether another floodlit astroturf hockey pitch or revolving stage and theatre lighting that would rival the West End was really what they wanted their fees spent on. I suspect that even with Starmer's cynical socialist raids on the independent sector they will (hopefully) survive, though probably with a lot less bursaries and community benefits that their charitable status currently requires. The facilities arms race will not be missed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    Sandpit said:

    Not an expert either, but I suspect the Swiss banks. The richest person I know banks with UBS.
    Hoare's is a favourite. When you call them they pick up the phone saying "hello Mr [your name]".

    Plenty of very, very rich people I know have First Direct accounts.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,562

    Happy to oblige.

    What do they need cash for?

    Is it

    a) to buy illegal drugs
    b) to take illegal drugs or
    c) to pay someone outside the glare of HMRC

    ?
    Oh do fuck off dear boy (in the nicest possible way) about this.

    I paid cash at the butcher's today because he does not take cards for purchases less than £10. I paid cash last week for some home-grown plants at the local village Plant Fair (raising money for a local hospice). I pay cash for coffee and cake at our regular Make Do and Mend meet up (our version of The Great British Sewing Bee).

    And so on.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,850
    My UK bank was recently folded in Coutts, so now I am a Coutts customer. It was not a conscious decision.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    edited July 2023

    Does it not concern you that you are on a similar slippery slope? I would say you are quite vulnerable to such journey. You are not a scientist (clearly) so do not follow Scientific Method and generally stop at the hypothesis stage because the scrutiny and objective data analysis is too unexciting for your journalistic mind. You also spend a lot of time alone. This enables your creative mind to look at anything fanciful and hope that it might be true so much that eventually you convince yourself.

    @kinabalu may well be an accountant (for which I have cruelly teased him - it s a professional peril that he must endure), but I suspect that while you might consider him boring and unimaginative, his analysis is more reliable, probably by a factor of several thousand.
    Let me think. Ok I’ve thunk

    In answer, no, no, no, no aaaaand…… No

    I have a imagination, I keep an open mind, I travel the world all the time

    @kinabalu, bless him, has no imagination, has an absurdly narrow mind, and hasn’t left Britain in fifteen years, apart from a weekend in Antwerp

    CASE CLOSED, as, I believe, they say
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,505
    kinabalu said:

    Why hasn't she, do we think?
    Take a look at the resistance Cameron and others encountered with respect to Hillsborough.

    She’d have to go to war with a chunk of people who were either involved or see the people involved as, like them, Good And Proper People Doing a Difficult Job.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,080
    felix said:

    Correct. The idea that more money is always the answer means you're asking the wrong questions, or you're a socialist... and probably both.
    Or the bursar at a private school, given what's happened to school fees over the last decade and a bit.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,422
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-passports-will-be-issued-in-the-name-of-his-majesty

    For the first time in 70 years, British passports bearing the title of ‘His Majesty’ will start being issued this week in the name of His Majesty King Charles III, the Home Secretary has today (18 July) announced. 

    I might get one of the first passports with "His Majesty" on as my renewal was approved today.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    Really hard to disagree with @Cyclefree. This was a clear opportunity to support the little guys and girls, take up a populist stance and, oh yes, do the right thing. It’s sad it was not taken up.

    Because nobody in current HMG and today's "true" Tory Party gives a blind fiddler's final farewell fuck about "the little guys and girls"?

    More likely, the kind most likely to get their jollies, by Bullingdonian trashing small post offices. . . or better yet, getting the PO to do it for them.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,563
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-passports-will-be-issued-in-the-name-of-his-majesty

    For the first time in 70 years, British passports bearing the title of ‘His Majesty’ will start being issued this week in the name of His Majesty King Charles III, the Home Secretary has today (18 July) announced. 

    I might get one of the first passports with "His Majesty" on as my renewal was approved today.

    How comes your passport renewal had to be "approved"?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    edited July 2023

    Or you've noticed that funding per pupil at private schools is double that at state schools, or that many state schools are in danger of actually falling down, or that teacher retention is at record lows, or...
    Life must be so easy when you can just harrumph "socialist" and not engage your brain in the slightest.
    That's one kooky belief - that private schools get better results due to their 'ethos'.

    Still, we are discussing softhead conspiracy theories so I guess it's bang on topic!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Suggest that PBers eager to discuss JFK assassination, first read Posner and/or Bugliosi.

    Because IF you haven't then basically a waste of time, yours and ours.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773
    kinabalu said:

    Why hasn't she, do we think?
    It may prove expensive and the RM is tottering as it is. But that is a poor excuse.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    Suggest that PBers eager to discuss JFK assassination, first read Posner and/or Bugliosi.

    Because IF you haven't then basically a waste of time, yours and ours.

    Yep.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    Or you've noticed that funding per pupil at private schools is double that at state schools, or that many state schools are in danger of actually falling down, or that teacher retention is at record lows, or...
    Life must be so easy when you can just harrumph "socialist" and not engage your brain in the slightest.
    Throughout my long teaching career all of those things were true for much of the time. Throughout what stood out for me is that good leadership and good teaching were way more important than money. No need for the abuse btw. We view the world differently, that's all.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,223
    rcs1000 said:

    My UK bank was recently folded in Coutts, so now I am a Coutts customer. It was not a conscious decision.

    Drummonds?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,773
    That rain break has favoured Australia but it’s yet another really close game.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,228
    kinabalu said:

    That's one kooky belief - that private schools get better results due to their 'ethos'.

    Still, we are discussing softhead conspiracy theories so I guess it's bang on topic!
    Isn't it just a simple case of incentives? Public schools need to produce pupils who perform well academically and get into good unis, otherwise nobody would pay to put their kids through. Schools that are are funded centrally have targets and inspections and suchlike, but fundamentally, will still exist if pupils fail, and indeed perversely may be given more funding.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347
    Leon said:


    Let me think. Ok I’ve thunk

    In answer, no, no, no, no aaaaand…… No

    I have a imagination, I keep an open mind, I travel the world all the time

    @kinabalu, bless him, has no imagination, has an absurdly narrow mind, and hasn’t left Britain in fifteen years, apart from a weekend in Antwerp

    CASE CLOSED, as, I believe, they say
    Bruges.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,422
    TOPPING said:

    How comes your passport renewal had to be "approved"?
    I guess they thought I was a bit dodgy :wink:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,970
    The ability to discern interesting if surprising/challenging new truths, as against conspiratorial nonsense, is going to be a prized skill in the future

    Because obvious objective truth is coming to an end. You won’t be able to rely on photographs, videos, “your own eyes”; the voices of your own children will be faked, supposed experts will turn out to be deepfakes, and besides we now know experts lie, when it suits - lab leak

    So where you will get the actual truth? It’s going to be incredibly hard. You will need intuition. It may even then be impossible

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,228
    edited July 2023
    As everyone on PB will be slightly bored by, I usually share John Redwood's stuff here - I find his solutions populist and sensible. He's done a series of posts on what he wants in the King's Speech - I don't agree with them all (eg I don't see the point of selling off Channel 4) but in totality I would be extremely impressed if the Government launched a programme like this, and all of it is possible if not downright reasonable. If this were the programme, the next election might be in contention again.

    Yet once again we're likely get a total pile of toss from the SKS seat warmers.

    https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2023/07/15/the-kings-speech/

    Part 1 - Foreign policy

    1. Stop all overseas aid to any country with a nuclear weapons programme or with a defence budget greater than 2.5% of GDP. We should not be grant aiding rearmament by the back door.

    2. Allocate more of the Overseas Aid budget to meet first year set up costs of asylum seekers and economic migrants.

    3. Renegotiate the Windsor Agreement so that the more important Good Friday Agreement can be restored, with Unionists returning to Stormont.

    4. Tell the EU that if they put a tariff on our cars exported to the EU for insufficient local content we will place one on their exports of cars to us.

    5. Strengthen the small boats legislation by adding a notwithstanding clause to exclude further legal challenges

    6 Intensify actions to arrest and prosecute people smugglers.

    7 Return more foreign prisoners to their own countries.

    8. Decriminalise non payment of tv licence fee

    9. Raise income thresholds for economic migrants

    Part 2 - Boost economical growth

    1. Postpone ban on new petrol and diesel cars to 2040 from 2030 to allow investment and continued use of existing factories.

    2. Postpone the ban on new gas boilers for home heating

    3. Cut Corporation tax to 12.5%

    4. Switch wilding and sustainable farming grants to grants and loans to grow more food with more labour saving machinery

    5. Issue licences to produce more oil and gas from known North Sea fields and reserves

    6. Keep all existing fossil fuel power stations to help meet demand in periods of low wind and sun

    7. End grants for anti motorist schemes that cause more delay and congestion on main roads

    8. Put in more bypasses and roundabouts in place of more traffic lights and road restrictions

    9. Amend Housing Bill to avoid losing more landlords

    10. Remove 2017 and 2021 changes to IR 35 to foster more self employment

    11. Raise VAT threshold for small business to £ 250,000

    12. Get regulator to allow more reservoir capacity by water companies

    13. Suspend carbon tax and emissions trading to cut energy costs for high energy using industries like steel

    14. Auction government run rail franchises to get better service for lower subsidy

    15. Sell Channel 4

    16. Work with private sector to complete roll out of fast broadband

    Part 3 - Productivity in public services

    1. Repeal the independent management of NHS England, as everyone still blames Ministers for management failings.

    2. Reduce layers of management in NHS and strengthen powers of Trust CEOs and Boards

    3. Strengthen rights to free speech in universities and Colleges

    4. Amend public procurement rules to give proper recognition to the tax and job contributions to UK made by UK based suppliers

    5. Require Ministers to hold annual meetings with quangos to 1. Set objectives for the year ahead and agree budgets; 2 to review annual report and accounts; 3 to review performance.

    6. Grant NHS patients the right to free treatment in the private sector if the NHS fails to deliver in a stated time

    7. Block loans to Councils wanting to make commercial investments given the big losses some of them are recording on past attempts at property and green ventures

    8. Review and consolidate government property holdings to cut costs and reduce dominance of expensive London

    9. Cut energy use in public sector

    10. Charge foreign visitors for using public services
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,347

    Isn't it just a simple case of incentives? Public schools need to produce pupils who perform well academically and get into good unis, otherwise nobody would pay to put their kids through. Schools that are are funded centrally have targets and inspections and suchlike, but fundamentally, will still exist if pupils fail, and indeed perversely may be given more funding.
    No that's not it. Damn. I was really hoping it would be.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,228
    kinabalu said:

    No that's not it. Damn. I was really hoping it would be.
    Yet it happens.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    One new spanish poll from Key data their first since 6th July. PP lead identical at nearly 7% but both extreme parties Vox and Sumar are down while both PP and PSOE are up. The squeeze continues.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,935

    As everyone on PB will be slightly bored by, I usually share John Redwood's stuff here - I find his solutions populist and sensible. He's done a series of posts on what he wants in the King's Speech - I don't agree with them all (eg I don't see the point of selling off Channel 4) but in totality I would be extremely impressed if the Government launched a programme like this, and all of it is possible if not downright reasonable. If this were the programme, the next election might be in contention again.

    Yet once again we're likely get a total pile of toss from the SKS seat warmers.

    https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2023/07/15/the-kings-speech/

    TV license fee is not foreign policy.
    Tax rates are for a budget, not a King's Speech.
    The only way NHS patients could get free treatment in the private sector is if we imported an extra half a million health care workers and raised taxes to pay the costs, which seems to be the exact opposite of his other putrid points.......

    I'd like to say otherwise all good, but that is a step too far. All for cutting energy use in the public sector though, so well done John, better luck next year, eh?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,888
    "Musk, Tesla board to return $735M after being sued for overpaying themselves"

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/07/musk-tesla-board-to-return-735m-after-being-sued-for-overpaying-themselves/
This discussion has been closed.