I have pretty low expectations of Starmer, but the economy will start to grow again next year, and that will create some leeway for him.
Though even if a Starmer government is little different policy wise, heavily constrained by the shackles of Brexit and the poor state of public finances and public services, this government needs to go. It is necessary for democracy to survive that the incompetence, mendacity and corruption that we have seen since 2015 are punished severely at the election.
Right, because Starmer is SOOOOOO competent and honest.
I can understand why people don't like the Conservative government. I don't myself, particularly.
But I'm truly baffled as to why (other than wishful thinking) anybody who has studied his record for more than about five minutes would think he'd be any better, when he lied his way into the leadership, worked for Jeremy Corbyn to be PM, and has no convincing answers to the problems facing the country, other than maybe planning reform, which has defeated better people than him.
He'd be much more likely to be Gordon Brown Mark 2.
Even if you are right - and I think you are exaggerating - if it is time for a change of government, for good reason, then the bottom line is that the only possible option is a Labour or Labour led government. So unless you know that Sir K etc are truly wicked, useless or incompetent, and more so than the present lot, then a rational centrist will vote for the Labour or LD candidate, whichever is more likely to win the seat.
BTW the absence of grandiose schemes in an era when the government possesses -£2trillion and is borrowing £100bn a year is a plus.
I don't think SKS and Reeves are truly incompetent or wicked. But the general pattern is that every time the Tories have been wrong, Labour have been calling for them to be more wrong (lockdown being the obvious example). Do I want the principles I want put into practice without competence, or the principles I don't want possibly put into practice competently? It's really not a great choice, but there's absolutely nothing about Labour which makes me want to vote for them. That said, I'd have walked over broken glass to vote Tory - even for a party led by Boris - when it was all about keeping Corbyn out. I rate Rishi higher than Boris, but I don't fear SKS like I feared Corbyn. Perhaps that will be enough for Labour. (My theory, which I trot out with dull regularity, is that by far the largest factor in the size of the Tory vote is the scariness of the Labour party).
I largely agree. Neither big party is all that clear what its core principles are - ie the ones which genuinely distinguish it from each other and others. Both are (despite all the rhetoric) big government, massive state managed expenditure, total welfare state, mostly state education, NATO, confused over post Brexit arrangements. Both want both more and fewer migrants. Both want housing somewhere else. The differences are all at marginal issues. So for the moment, I suggest, there is little doubt it is time for a change. Sir K is the only change available, and he isn't Corbyn.
Labour might temper the edges of the more disgusting elements of the current regime - Rwanda? International development?
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
Yeah, "Mum and Dad sent me to Ampleforth/Sedbergh and all we could afford to stay in was a coffin in Whitby and battered cods' heads for dinner". "Ay, happen you were lucky lad, we only had plain batter!"
It's a real phenomenon, it's horribly guilt inducing for the children involved, and it's one of the best arguments AGAINST private education. Deprive parents of the opportunity to do this to themselves.
Hmm, interesting perspective!
Strongly felt. Piece in the local paper a bit ago, parents doing exactly this shtick, but we don't begrudge it because our parents did exactly the same for us. The kicker being they were both low level solicitors at the Local Authority. Bus drivers have better paid and more rewarding jobs. It's just intergenerational misery. Say fuck it, send them to the comp and go to Club Med.
It seems to be part of the psychological job that public schools do on their charges. My dad absolutely loathed being a boarder at Edinburgh Academy and being released from that to the care of his Bayble gran and the Nicholson Institute was the best thing that ever happened to him, yet 35 years later he was blathering on about 'getting the boys to Gordonstoun'.
Club Med?!
Not really selling the benefits of state education, there.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Dan Wootton didn’t tell the Nation, and the World, that the Queen had passed on.
Yes, it does appear to be another media scandal, and he’s getting cancelled at best. Let’s hope that the rest of the media remembers to carry on reporting the actual news this time.
Worth bearing in mind that Wootton was executive editor of The Sun for a while (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Wootton), so he wasn't just a writer or performer. How much of a difference that makes and in what direction, I'm not sure.
LOL. Apparently the Russians have put some metal ramps on the less-collapsed half of the Kerch Bridge, and are letting cars go across. What could possibly go wrong there?
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
My parents starved to death to send me to private school. But it was worth it.
My parents kept me in a comp. Didn't even try to send me to a grammar school.
And they never took me abroad until I was 19.
Did it bother me? Not much. Didn't particularly want to go abroad. I suffer from heat migraines very easily so the idea of hot summers was not appealing.
Would I have done better academically at a private school? Almost certainly. There was a significant problem with disruption in my local school that I wouldn't have had elsewhere. And you do see some quite stupid people who went to private schools getting on well in exams and careers.
But would have I enjoyed it? Probably not very much. I don't like commuting and my local comp was literally at the end of my road whereas the nearest private school was a ten mile bus ride.
I think this is probably my main personal issue with private schools - the advancement of the mediocre. We see it most obviously in our current government, half of whom I wouldn’t trust to make a cup of tea.
That I would agree with.
Which is one reason why I've always been adamant the way to get rid of them is to cut class sizes in the state sector dramatically. That would first, eliminate the edge private schools have and second, really improve education outcomes (much though I hate that cliche) for everyone.
The strange element in the debate about private and state education is the lack of interest in the actual issue.
Which is the better educational outcomes achieved by private schools.
At this point the debate generally devolves to Olympic swimming pools, thick poshos and my favourite - “Over education”.
Has anyone actually done a study on the effect of reducing class size without changing anything else?
Edit : The reason for the avoidance of the issue is obvious, to me.
Not in this country.
That would require you to reduce class sizes...
Once worked at a comprehensive that bust an absolute gut to get down to 24 maximum. Basically all the discrecionary spend in the budget went on that. That was probably not enough to really make a difference (you don't really change much by going from 30 to 24 in a well run school... Suspect the threshold is when 24 becomes 18). It ended up as more a selling point than anything else, and some of the consequent austerities (nothing printed full size, ever) were maddening.
Can't find the source, but I've seen it said that the key problem isn't so much staff as buildings. Cut the default class size from 30 to 20 and you need 50% more classrooms for the same number of children. And nobody has any intention of paying for that, especially in one go. Hence the use of TAs in primaries, to improve the adult:child ratio without changing the size of classes.
What are the ranges of class size in private schools? 15 early on, with slack handfuls for some A level subjects?
My eldest has ended up in a class of 2 for A level Spanish…
In my experience, there comes a point where class sizes are too small - 2 for A-level Spanish, for example. That's because the benefits of being in a group large enough to engender healthy debate and discussion are lost. I reckon anything less than 6 is too small for the cut and thrust of teacher-pupil and pupil-pupil interactions and the sharing of different ideas to benefit learning.
My education take that will make everyone hate me is that schools should just get out of the business of teaching A Levels, and do that in sixth form colleges instead. Lots of schools run A Level groups that are too small to be economic and probably aren't ideal from an educational point of view.
Trouble is that teachers like their tiny sixth form class (I know I did) and parents are often up in arms at the very idea.
Totally agree. State sixth-form colleges are the crème de la crème of our education system. Sadly, their numbers have reduced from just under 100 to around 50 as some have had to merge with FE colleges, and others have been academised into federations. Scandalous. Another example of clueless Tory education policies.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
Yeah, "Mum and Dad sent me to Ampleforth/Sedbergh and all we could afford to stay in was a coffin in Whitby and battered cods' heads for dinner". "Ay, happen you were lucky lad, we only had plain batter!"
It's a real phenomenon, it's horribly guilt inducing for the children involved, and it's one of the best arguments AGAINST private education. Deprive parents of the opportunity to do this to themselves.
Hmm, interesting perspective!
Strongly felt. Piece in the local paper a bit ago, parents doing exactly this shtick, but we don't begrudge it because our parents did exactly the same for us. The kicker being they were both low level solicitors at the Local Authority. Bus drivers have better paid and more rewarding jobs. It's just intergenerational misery. Say fuck it, send them to the comp and go to Club Med.
It seems to be part of the psychological job that public schools do on their charges. My dad absolutely loathed being a boarder at Edinburgh Academy and being released from that to the care of his Bayble gran and the Nicholson Institute was the best thing that ever happened to him, yet 35 years later he was blathering on about 'getting the boys to Gordonstoun'.
Club Med?!
Not really selling the benefits of state education, there.
Er, what does Club Med have to do with Lewis? No sign of Leon et al here:
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
Yeah, "Mum and Dad sent me to Ampleforth/Sedbergh and all we could afford to stay in was a coffin in Whitby and battered cods' heads for dinner". "Ay, happen you were lucky lad, we only had plain batter!"
It's a real phenomenon, it's horribly guilt inducing for the children involved, and it's one of the best arguments AGAINST private education. Deprive parents of the opportunity to do this to themselves.
Yep. That's on my (long) list of harms done. Not near the bottom either.
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
My parents starved to death to send me to private school. But it was worth it.
My parents kept me in a comp. Didn't even try to send me to a grammar school.
And they never took me abroad until I was 19.
Did it bother me? Not much. Didn't particularly want to go abroad. I suffer from heat migraines very easily so the idea of hot summers was not appealing.
Would I have done better academically at a private school? Almost certainly. There was a significant problem with disruption in my local school that I wouldn't have had elsewhere. And you do see some quite stupid people who went to private schools getting on well in exams and careers.
But would have I enjoyed it? Probably not very much. I don't like commuting and my local comp was literally at the end of my road whereas the nearest private school was a ten mile bus ride.
I think this is probably my main personal issue with private schools - the advancement of the mediocre. We see it most obviously in our current government, half of whom I wouldn’t trust to make a cup of tea.
That I would agree with.
Which is one reason why I've always been adamant the way to get rid of them is to cut class sizes in the state sector dramatically. That would first, eliminate the edge private schools have and second, really improve education outcomes (much though I hate that cliche) for everyone.
The strange element in the debate about private and state education is the lack of interest in the actual issue.
Which is the better educational outcomes achieved by private schools.
At this point the debate generally devolves to Olympic swimming pools, thick poshos and my favourite - “Over education”.
Has anyone actually done a study on the effect of reducing class size without changing anything else?
Edit : The reason for the avoidance of the issue is obvious, to me.
Not in this country.
That would require you to reduce class sizes...
Once worked at a comprehensive that bust an absolute gut to get down to 24 maximum. Basically all the discrecionary spend in the budget went on that. That was probably not enough to really make a difference (you don't really change much by going from 30 to 24 in a well run school... Suspect the threshold is when 24 becomes 18). It ended up as more a selling point than anything else, and some of the consequent austerities (nothing printed full size, ever) were maddening.
Can't find the source, but I've seen it said that the key problem isn't so much staff as buildings. Cut the default class size from 30 to 20 and you need 50% more classrooms for the same number of children. And nobody has any intention of paying for that, especially in one go. Hence the use of TAs in primaries, to improve the adult:child ratio without changing the size of classes.
What are the ranges of class size in private schools? 15 early on, with slack handfuls for some A level subjects?
My eldest has ended up in a class of 2 for A level Spanish…
In my experience, there comes a point where class sizes are too small - 2 for A-level Spanish, for example. That's because the benefits of being in a group large enough to engender healthy debate and discussion are lost. I reckon anything less than 6 is too small for the cut and thrust of teacher-pupil and pupil-pupil interactions and the sharing of different ideas to benefit learning.
My education take that will make everyone hate me is that schools should just get out of the business of teaching A Levels, and do that in sixth form colleges instead. Lots of schools run A Level groups that are too small to be economic and probably aren't ideal from an educational point of view.
Trouble is that teachers like their tiny sixth form class (I know I did) and parents are often up in arms at the very idea.
Totally agree. State sixth-form colleges are the crème de la crème of our education system. Sadly, their numbers have reduced from just under 100 to around 50 as some have had to merge with FE colleges, and others have been academised into federations. Scandalous. Another example of clueless Tory education policies.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
Yeah, "Mum and Dad sent me to Ampleforth/Sedbergh and all we could afford to stay in was a coffin in Whitby and battered cods' heads for dinner". "Ay, happen you were lucky lad, we only had plain batter!"
It's a real phenomenon, it's horribly guilt inducing for the children involved, and it's one of the best arguments AGAINST private education. Deprive parents of the opportunity to do this to themselves.
Hmm, interesting perspective!
Strongly felt. Piece in the local paper a bit ago, parents doing exactly this shtick, but we don't begrudge it because our parents did exactly the same for us. The kicker being they were both low level solicitors at the Local Authority. Bus drivers have better paid and more rewarding jobs. It's just intergenerational misery. Say fuck it, send them to the comp and go to Club Med.
It seems to be part of the psychological job that public schools do on their charges. My dad absolutely loathed being a boarder at Edinburgh Academy and being released from that to the care of his Bayble gran and the Nicholson Institute was the best thing that ever happened to him, yet 35 years later he was blathering on about 'getting the boys to Gordonstoun'.
Club Med?!
Not really selling the benefits of state education, there.
Er, what does Club Med have to do with Lewis? No sign of Leon et al here:
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
My parents starved to death to send me to private school. But it was worth it.
My parents kept me in a comp. Didn't even try to send me to a grammar school.
And they never took me abroad until I was 19.
Did it bother me? Not much. Didn't particularly want to go abroad. I suffer from heat migraines very easily so the idea of hot summers was not appealing.
Would I have done better academically at a private school? Almost certainly. There was a significant problem with disruption in my local school that I wouldn't have had elsewhere. And you do see some quite stupid people who went to private schools getting on well in exams and careers.
But would have I enjoyed it? Probably not very much. I don't like commuting and my local comp was literally at the end of my road whereas the nearest private school was a ten mile bus ride.
I think this is probably my main personal issue with private schools - the advancement of the mediocre. We see it most obviously in our current government, half of whom I wouldn’t trust to make a cup of tea.
That I would agree with.
Which is one reason why I've always been adamant the way to get rid of them is to cut class sizes in the state sector dramatically. That would first, eliminate the edge private schools have and second, really improve education outcomes (much though I hate that cliche) for everyone.
The strange element in the debate about private and state education is the lack of interest in the actual issue.
Which is the better educational outcomes achieved by private schools.
At this point the debate generally devolves to Olympic swimming pools, thick poshos and my favourite - “Over education”.
Has anyone actually done a study on the effect of reducing class size without changing anything else?
Edit : The reason for the avoidance of the issue is obvious, to me.
Not in this country.
That would require you to reduce class sizes...
Once worked at a comprehensive that bust an absolute gut to get down to 24 maximum. Basically all the discrecionary spend in the budget went on that. That was probably not enough to really make a difference (you don't really change much by going from 30 to 24 in a well run school... Suspect the threshold is when 24 becomes 18). It ended up as more a selling point than anything else, and some of the consequent austerities (nothing printed full size, ever) were maddening.
Can't find the source, but I've seen it said that the key problem isn't so much staff as buildings. Cut the default class size from 30 to 20 and you need 50% more classrooms for the same number of children. And nobody has any intention of paying for that, especially in one go. Hence the use of TAs in primaries, to improve the adult:child ratio without changing the size of classes.
What are the ranges of class size in private schools? 15 early on, with slack handfuls for some A level subjects?
My eldest has ended up in a class of 2 for A level Spanish…
In my experience, there comes a point where class sizes are too small - 2 for A-level Spanish, for example. That's because the benefits of being in a group large enough to engender healthy debate and discussion are lost. I reckon anything less than 6 is too small for the cut and thrust of teacher-pupil and pupil-pupil interactions and the sharing of different ideas to benefit learning.
My education take that will make everyone hate me is that schools should just get out of the business of teaching A Levels, and do that in sixth form colleges instead. Lots of schools run A Level groups that are too small to be economic and probably aren't ideal from an educational point of view.
Trouble is that teachers like their tiny sixth form class (I know I did) and parents are often up in arms at the very idea.
Totally agree. State sixth-form colleges are the crème de la crème of our education system. Sadly, their numbers have reduced from just under 100 to around 50 as some have had to merge with FE colleges, and others have been academised into federations. Scandalous. Another example of clueless Tory education policies.
We have sixth form colleges in our area (Surrey) and, whilst I agree that they are very good, my secondary school was very poor at advising me on what A Levels to pick. I was basically left to figure it out for myself. Sadly, by the time I realised what I should have picked, it was too late.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
Yeah, "Mum and Dad sent me to Ampleforth/Sedbergh and all we could afford to stay in was a coffin in Whitby and battered cods' heads for dinner". "Ay, happen you were lucky lad, we only had plain batter!"
It's a real phenomenon, it's horribly guilt inducing for the children involved, and it's one of the best arguments AGAINST private education. Deprive parents of the opportunity to do this to themselves.
Hmm, interesting perspective!
Strongly felt. Piece in the local paper a bit ago, parents doing exactly this shtick, but we don't begrudge it because our parents did exactly the same for us. The kicker being they were both low level solicitors at the Local Authority. Bus drivers have better paid and more rewarding jobs. It's just intergenerational misery. Say fuck it, send them to the comp and go to Club Med.
It seems to be part of the psychological job that public schools do on their charges. My dad absolutely loathed being a boarder at Edinburgh Academy and being released from that to the care of his Bayble gran and the Nicholson Institute was the best thing that ever happened to him, yet 35 years later he was blathering on about 'getting the boys to Gordonstoun'.
Club Med?!
Not really selling the benefits of state education, there.
Er, what does Club Med have to do with Lewis? No sign of Leon et al here:
LOL. Apparently the Russians have put some metal ramps on the less-collapsed half of the Kerch Bridge, and are letting cars go across. What could possibly go wrong there?
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
Schofield tried to do a “Kevin Spacey”, and bury the story of him grooming a teenager as being that of a brave man coming out. He almost succeeded as well.
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Still a sizeable margin for those in favour of the cap among the key 25 to 49 demographic:
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
There are elements of that for sure, but its also partly not many people know who Dan Wotton is, and with Edwards the slow reveal was the real driver of the story, not what he got up to.
Yep. I suspect 95% of people would not have a clue who Wotton is.
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Interesting, the construct you have created in your head about elderly people.
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Still a sizeable margin for those in favour of the cap among the key 25 to 49 demographic:
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Interesting, the construct you have created in your head about elderly people.
Not my head - but observed in the media.
Given the importance of children for the future ...
David Cameron @David_Cameron It's the 10th anniversary of the Same Sex Marriage Act, one of my proudest achievements as PM. Thousands of gay couples have been able to make their vows over the past decade as a result. It's proof that positive change happens when we all work for it. A very happy anniversary! Jul 17, 2023 · 2:05 PM UTC
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
"Ben Wallace has accused hunt saboteurs who claimed he took cocaine and had an affair with Liz Truss of being “sad”.
The Defence Secretary hit out at a Twitter user who claimed he had conducted an “affair with Liz Truss” and participated in “copious cocaine usage” ... Mr Wallace replied that he was “surprised you didn’t expose that I am really an alien who is from the planet Krypton…!” He added: “You really are sad sabs!”
When Jeremy Vine was defamed on twitter he didn't "hit out," he got a legally-compelled apology in double quick time.
I wonder what lies behind the difference in approach.
David Cameron @David_Cameron It's the 10th anniversary of the Same Sex Marriage Act, one of my proudest achievements as PM. Thousands of gay couples have been able to make their vows over the past decade as a result. It's proof that positive change happens when we all work for it. A very happy anniversary! Jul 17, 2023 · 2:05 PM UTC
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Interesting, the construct you have created in your head about elderly people.
Not my head - but observed in the media.
Given the importance of children for the future ...
Yep. They'll be the ones screwing up the planet in future decades.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
PB rightwing? The number of PBers currently voting Tory can be counted on one hand
Further proof that Australia will soon be a republic.
The Australian state of Victoria has pulled out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games due to projected cost overruns, placing the future of the quadrennial event in doubt.
The Premier of Victoria, Dan Andrews, said the cost of the Games, which would have been held in four regional hubs, could blow out to more than A$7 billion (about £3.7 billion) from a budgeted A$2.6 billion (£1.4 billion) if they went ahead.
“Frankly A$6-A$7 billion for a 12-day sporting event, we’re not doing that,” Andrews said. “I will not take money out of hospitals and schools to fund an event that is three times the cost as estimated and budgeted for last year.”
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Interesting, the construct you have created in your head about elderly people.
Not my head - but observed in the media.
Given the importance of children for the future ...
I find with each day that passes, the importance of the future for me dwindles.
I always answer "selflessness" when asked What's your worst fault in interviews.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
PB rightwing? The number of PBers currently voting Tory can be counted on one hand
Clearly we need more poorly educated people on the site, for balance….
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
PB rightwing? The number of PBers currently voting Tory can be counted on one hand
But lots of PBers are conservative, just that the current "Conservative" Party would be investigated by the Trading Standards Department of Westminster Borough Council and rate a campaign in Which? if it were a breakfast cereal manufacturer.
I went to a lowish achievement state school with an old school headmaster - any thought that a teacher was merely training these kids to be on the dole was strictly verboten and banding and setting was strongly adhered to. I don't remember much disruption in the classroom, though the horizons were narrow.
Went abroad once before I was 19, to the Tirol, with my junior school on one of those little paper orange passports.
State sixth form was very good.
I think it's right that the promotion of mediocrity is the curse of private education that we bear.
My daughter goes to a state grammar school, taking with her average 11+ results (they were ranked) and has soared there. A lot of our decision though was based on her character and the alternatives. However, the mediocrity of those who prep schooled next to the state primary kids is palpable.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
As someone who lived in Oxford and went to UCL - the student bodies were very similar in terms of "poshness". There may be a few more "toffs" at Oxford, but as a proportion of the actual students they are very small. All very middle class, really.
Further proof that Australia will soon be a republic.
The Australian state of Victoria has pulled out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games due to projected cost overruns, placing the future of the quadrennial event in doubt.
The Premier of Victoria, Dan Andrews, said the cost of the Games, which would have been held in four regional hubs, could blow out to more than A$7 billion (about £3.7 billion) from a budgeted A$2.6 billion (£1.4 billion) if they went ahead.
“Frankly A$6-A$7 billion for a 12-day sporting event, we’re not doing that,” Andrews said. “I will not take money out of hospitals and schools to fund an event that is three times the cost as estimated and budgeted for last year.”
Pathetic by the Labor government of Australian, the Liberal Opposition Leader rightfully slammed them as putting future hosting of sport events in Australia and the state at risk. Leftwing woke hatred of Australian history now even extends to the Commonwealth games it seems and no wonder polls for the Voice referendum in the autumn get ever closer as rural Australia and suburban Australia revolts against the left liberal urban elite
Or the Premier of Victoria realised that whilst the Commonwealths are “nice” they are second tier and the money should be spent on more vital things right now. Can you imagine the outrage if Rishi said “it’s ok we’ll take it on and spend a few billion on hosting” whilst the economy is rather uncomfortable right now?
Macron should cancel the Paris 2024 Olympics then and spend the money on French healthcare instead
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Silly misconception on your behalf, there were plenty of working class Northerners at Cambridge, there were very few posho twats.
Israel lent some ancient archaeological artifacts to the White House in 2019. They went missing and are now apparently in Mar-a-Lago, with Israeli authorities unable to get them back from Trump https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1681191003624013824
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Interesting, the construct you have created in your head about elderly people.
Not my head - but observed in the media.
Given the importance of children for the future ...
Yep. They'll be the ones screwing up the planet in future decades.
As opposed to the youngsters at the concerts I go to, who find using a bin 10 feet from them impossible.
At Reading festival, they had bins all over the place. people picking litter and giving way free bin bags. And yet, after the festival was over you'd need to scrape and sieve the topsoil, before letting animals graze there again.
Further proof that Australia will soon be a republic.
The Australian state of Victoria has pulled out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games due to projected cost overruns, placing the future of the quadrennial event in doubt.
The Premier of Victoria, Dan Andrews, said the cost of the Games, which would have been held in four regional hubs, could blow out to more than A$7 billion (about £3.7 billion) from a budgeted A$2.6 billion (£1.4 billion) if they went ahead.
“Frankly A$6-A$7 billion for a 12-day sporting event, we’re not doing that,” Andrews said. “I will not take money out of hospitals and schools to fund an event that is three times the cost as estimated and budgeted for last year.”
Pathetic by the Labor government of Australian, the Liberal Opposition Leader rightfully slammed them as putting future hosting of sport events in Australia and the state at risk. Leftwing woke hatred of Australian history now even extends to the Commonwealth games it seems and no wonder polls for the Voice referendum in the autumn get ever closer as rural Australia and suburban Australia revolts against the left liberal urban elite
Or the Premier of Victoria realised that whilst the Commonwealths are “nice” they are second tier and the money should be spent on more vital things right now. Can you imagine the outrage if Rishi said “it’s ok we’ll take it on and spend a few billion on hosting” whilst the economy is rather uncomfortable right now?
Macron should cancel the Paris 2024 Olympics then and spend the money on French healthcare instead
Nah, the Olympics is the Premier League, the Commonwealth games is the equivalent of the Vanarama National League.
Worst of all, the Commonwealth games encourages Scottish nationalism.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Truss versus HYUFD in the "which is worse, state or private education?" stakes...
Further proof that Australia will soon be a republic.
The Australian state of Victoria has pulled out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games due to projected cost overruns, placing the future of the quadrennial event in doubt.
The Premier of Victoria, Dan Andrews, said the cost of the Games, which would have been held in four regional hubs, could blow out to more than A$7 billion (about £3.7 billion) from a budgeted A$2.6 billion (£1.4 billion) if they went ahead.
“Frankly A$6-A$7 billion for a 12-day sporting event, we’re not doing that,” Andrews said. “I will not take money out of hospitals and schools to fund an event that is three times the cost as estimated and budgeted for last year.”
Pathetic by the Labor government of Australian, the Liberal Opposition Leader rightfully slammed them as putting future hosting of sport events in Australia and the state at risk. Leftwing woke hatred of Australian history now even extends to the Commonwealth games it seems and no wonder polls for the Voice referendum in the autumn get ever closer as rural Australia and suburban Australia revolts against the left liberal urban elite
Or the Premier of Victoria realised that whilst the Commonwealths are “nice” they are second tier and the money should be spent on more vital things right now. Can you imagine the outrage if Rishi said “it’s ok we’ll take it on and spend a few billion on hosting” whilst the economy is rather uncomfortable right now?
Macron should cancel the Paris 2024 Olympics then and spend the money on French healthcare instead
Nah, the Olympics is the Premier League, the Commonwealth games is the equivalent of the Vanarama National League.
Worst of all, the Commonwealth games encourages Scottish nationalism.
As opposed to Great British nationalism? Team GB in the Olympics. (It's not even proper UK nationalism, for the obvious reason of Irish dual nationality.)
Further proof that Australia will soon be a republic.
The Australian state of Victoria has pulled out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games due to projected cost overruns, placing the future of the quadrennial event in doubt.
The Premier of Victoria, Dan Andrews, said the cost of the Games, which would have been held in four regional hubs, could blow out to more than A$7 billion (about £3.7 billion) from a budgeted A$2.6 billion (£1.4 billion) if they went ahead.
“Frankly A$6-A$7 billion for a 12-day sporting event, we’re not doing that,” Andrews said. “I will not take money out of hospitals and schools to fund an event that is three times the cost as estimated and budgeted for last year.”
Pathetic by the Labor government of Australian, the Liberal Opposition Leader rightfully slammed them as putting future hosting of sport events in Australia and the state at risk. Leftwing woke hatred of Australian history now even extends to the Commonwealth games it seems and no wonder polls for the Voice referendum in the autumn get ever closer as rural Australia and suburban Australia revolts against the left liberal urban elite
Or the Premier of Victoria realised that whilst the Commonwealths are “nice” they are second tier and the money should be spent on more vital things right now. Can you imagine the outrage if Rishi said “it’s ok we’ll take it on and spend a few billion on hosting” whilst the economy is rather uncomfortable right now?
Macron should cancel the Paris 2024 Olympics then and spend the money on French healthcare instead
Nah, the Olympics is the Premier League, the Commonwealth games is the equivalent of the Vanarama National League.
Worst of all, the Commonwealth games encourages Scottish nationalism.
As opposed to Great British nationalism? Team GB in the Olympics. (It's not even proper UK nationalism, for the obvious reason of Irish dual nationality.)
British Nationalism is the best, the Scottish electorate said so in 2014.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
PB rightwing? The number of PBers currently voting Tory can be counted on one hand
But lots of PBers are conservative, just that the current "Conservative" Party would be investigated by the Trading Standards Department of Westminster Borough Council and rate a campaign in Which? if it were a breakfast cereal manufacturer.
While every effort has been made to remove them, some traces of members that are not nuts may remain?
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Interesting, the construct you have created in your head about elderly people.
Not my head - but observed in the media.
Given the importance of children for the future ...
Yep. They'll be the ones screwing up the planet in future decades.
As opposed to the youngsters at the concerts I go to, who find using a bin 10 feet from them impossible.
At Reading festival, they had bins all over the place. people picking litter and giving way free bin bags. And yet, after the festival was over you'd need to scrape and sieve the topsoil, before letting animals graze there again.
Japan does I believe have almost no litter bins in public, everyone takes it home with them. I've had to get a new lockable bin at home mind because my 14 month believes everything needs to go in the bin now...
O/T re my current office conversation. Was there a fluffer in Caligula ?
I don't think you ever see an erect penis in the film. Then again, much of it was cut/reframed for the English market so you never get to see in detail the goings-on with the stallion. Your fluffer would be a mare for those purposes obv.
Israel lent some ancient archaeological artifacts to the White House in 2019. They went missing and are now apparently in Mar-a-Lago, with Israeli authorities unable to get them back from Trump https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1681191003624013824
Sounds like we should count ourselves lucky that Obama returned the Churchill bust.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Silly misconception on your behalf, there were plenty of working class Northerners at Cambridge, there were very few posho twats.
No there were fuck loads of posho twats. The place was theirs. I still don't know if I was right to go to Cambridge, a lot of the time I felt quite uncomfortable and unhappy there. I did meet my wife there though, so on balance it was a positive experience.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
As I do not watch GBNews maybe that is why I have not heard of him
Yes he's on that. So neither have I seen him in action. I've hidden that channel so it doesn't appear on the menu. Silly to leave it there and invite a fat finger mishap.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
Schofield tried to do a “Kevin Spacey”, and bury the story of him grooming a teenager as being that of a brave man coming out. He almost succeeded as well.
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
Male or female does make a difference, surely, at least until we see a flurry of stories about men being perverts for paying women on Only Fans or looking at bare breasts on page three.
Further proof that Australia will soon be a republic.
The Australian state of Victoria has pulled out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games due to projected cost overruns, placing the future of the quadrennial event in doubt.
The Premier of Victoria, Dan Andrews, said the cost of the Games, which would have been held in four regional hubs, could blow out to more than A$7 billion (about £3.7 billion) from a budgeted A$2.6 billion (£1.4 billion) if they went ahead.
“Frankly A$6-A$7 billion for a 12-day sporting event, we’re not doing that,” Andrews said. “I will not take money out of hospitals and schools to fund an event that is three times the cost as estimated and budgeted for last year.”
Pathetic by the Labor government of Australian, the Liberal Opposition Leader rightfully slammed them as putting future hosting of sport events in Australia and the state at risk. Leftwing woke hatred of Australian history now even extends to the Commonwealth games it seems and no wonder polls for the Voice referendum in the autumn get ever closer as rural Australia and suburban Australia revolts against the left liberal urban elite
Or the Premier of Victoria realised that whilst the Commonwealths are “nice” they are second tier and the money should be spent on more vital things right now. Can you imagine the outrage if Rishi said “it’s ok we’ll take it on and spend a few billion on hosting” whilst the economy is rather uncomfortable right now?
Macron should cancel the Paris 2024 Olympics then and spend the money on French healthcare instead
Nah, the Olympics is the Premier League, the Commonwealth games is the equivalent of the Vanarama National League.
Worst of all, the Commonwealth games encourages Scottish nationalism.
As opposed to Great British nationalism? Team GB in the Olympics. (It's not even proper UK nationalism, for the obvious reason of Irish dual nationality.)
British Nationalism is the best, the Scottish electorate said so in 2014.
Reconfirmed by the whole British electorate in 2016.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Silly misconception on your behalf, there were plenty of working class Northerners at Cambridge, there were very few posho twats.
No there were fuck loads of posho twats. The place was theirs. I still don't know if I was right to go to Cambridge, a lot of the time I felt quite uncomfortable and unhappy there. I did meet my wife there though, so on balance it was a positive experience.
I loved my time there, no joking, I was quiet and shy before I went to university.
That place gave me a fucktonne of self confidence and belief in myself.
The one thing I am glad about is that I avoided student politics and focussed on my studies.
My mother hates Cambridge though, prior to me going there I was a very good Muslim boy.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Silly misconception on your behalf, there were plenty of working class Northerners at Cambridge, there were very few posho twats.
No there were fuck loads of posho twats. The place was theirs. I still don't know if I was right to go to Cambridge, a lot of the time I felt quite uncomfortable and unhappy there. I did meet my wife there though, so on balance it was a positive experience.
As someone who went from Scouseland to the other place I did encounter a good number of annoying poshos but found them easy to avoid most of the time.
I think it very much depended on your subject. Science and Engineering had far fewer then, eg, PPE.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
Schofield tried to do a “Kevin Spacey”, and bury the story of him grooming a teenager as being that of a brave man coming out. He almost succeeded as well.
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
Male or female does make a difference, surely, at least until we see a flurry of stories about men being perverts for paying women on Only Fans or looking at bare breasts on page three.
Page 3 was stopped a while back - because it became socially unacceptable.
Israel lent some ancient archaeological artifacts to the White House in 2019. They went missing and are now apparently in Mar-a-Lago, with Israeli authorities unable to get them back from Trump https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1681191003624013824
Sounds like they should have lent him something with (reputed) Ark of the Covenant style static electrical properties.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Silly misconception on your behalf, there were plenty of working class Northerners at Cambridge, there were very few posho twats.
No there were fuck loads of posho twats. The place was theirs. I still don't know if I was right to go to Cambridge, a lot of the time I felt quite uncomfortable and unhappy there. I did meet my wife there though, so on balance it was a positive experience.
And you were schooled in posho before going down there, yet it was still a culture shock.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Silly misconception on your behalf, there were plenty of working class Northerners at Cambridge, there were very few posho twats.
If you come from North East you imagine Oxford / Cambridge as a variation of Durham - which is utterly full of posho twats.
And it's blooming expensive to be there now - the cheapest student rental for 23/24 was £6800 - I know because we almost took a friend of twin A in because she could have commuted in with twin A...
This child benefit cap argument feels like quite an important moment for Starmer and Labour. If Starmer backs down, it will receive a lot of media attention. Had they just said they'd scrap it and put that in the manifesto, it might not have received much attention. Sure, the Tories might have tried to make it a big issue in the election campaign, but it's not certain that it would have taken off.
Who are Labour voters going to vote for instead? SKS is pandering, rather, to the kind of elderly voter who hates children except perhaps his own grandchildren, thinks they are weird aliens with prehensile thumbs and their own language, doesn't like the notion of his pension being taxed properly to pay for them, and thinks most of the children in the UK come from culturally or racially unsound backgrounds or belong to the kind of serial adulterer/shag them and leave them type who should support his own children ...
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
Still a sizeable margin for those in favour of the cap among the key 25 to 49 demographic:
Hmm, that's interesting - though that remains part of a very strong age correlation, too, of course.
My guess is that Labour have focussed grouped this with people not affiliated with a political party and they've found paying for other people's children to be toxic.
I bet this is another area where swing voters are more extreme than everyone else.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
Schofield tried to do a “Kevin Spacey”, and bury the story of him grooming a teenager as being that of a brave man coming out. He almost succeeded as well.
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
Male or female does make a difference, surely, at least until we see a flurry of stories about men being perverts for paying women on Only Fans or looking at bare breasts on page three.
If Schofield had been caught f***ing the teenage female intern, he’d have been fired three years ago, rather than getting away with his deflective sob-story about his “bravery” in coming out.
Edwards I don’t know enough detail, and don’t want to speculate and get OGH in trouble - but if a teenage girl on OF came forward alleging a long-running paid relationship with the news anchor, there would still be a problem. At that level, you’re expected to be the squeakiest of the squeaky clean, in practice as well as in theory. That’s what the £400k salary is for, you can afford the type of sex workers who are discreet enough to go away in the morning, no matter who you are.
Wootton, we don’t know yet, but I suspect he’s in big trouble. He was a line manager of the accusers.
Page 3 has gone away, no longer considered acceptable in newspapers since 2015.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Silly misconception on your behalf, there were plenty of working class Northerners at Cambridge, there were very few posho twats.
No there were fuck loads of posho twats. The place was theirs. I still don't know if I was right to go to Cambridge, a lot of the time I felt quite uncomfortable and unhappy there. I did meet my wife there though, so on balance it was a positive experience.
I loved my time there, no joking, I was quiet and shy before I went to university.
That place gave me a fucktonne of self confidence and belief in myself.
The one thing I am glad about is that I avoided student politics and focussed on my studies.
My mother hates Cambridge though, prior to me going there I was a very good Muslim boy.
So your private school was a waste of money on the fucktonne of self confidence and self belief front?
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
Schofield tried to do a “Kevin Spacey”, and bury the story of him grooming a teenager as being that of a brave man coming out. He almost succeeded as well.
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
Male or female does make a difference, surely, at least until we see a flurry of stories about men being perverts for paying women on Only Fans or looking at bare breasts on page three.
If Schofield had been caught f***ing the teenage female intern, he’d have been fired three years ago, rather than getting away with his deflective sob-story about his “bravery” in coming out.
Edwards I don’t know enough detail, and don’t want to speculate and get OGH in trouble - but if a teenage girl on OF came forward alleging a long-running paid relationship with the news anchor, there would still be a problem. At that level, you’re expected to be the squeakiest of the squeaky clean, in practice as well as in theory. That’s what the £400k salary is for, you can afford the type of sex workers who are discreet enough to go away in the morning, no matter who you are.
Wootton, we don’t know yet, but I suspect he’s in big trouble.
Page 3 has gone away, no longer considered acceptable in newspapers since 2015.
Well, there have been stories about heterosexual men shagging women who worked for them, not least in politics, but it did not end their careers (not this century anyway).
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
Schofield tried to do a “Kevin Spacey”, and bury the story of him grooming a teenager as being that of a brave man coming out. He almost succeeded as well.
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
Male or female does make a difference, surely, at least until we see a flurry of stories about men being perverts for paying women on Only Fans or looking at bare breasts on page three.
Page 3 was stopped a while back - because it became socially unacceptable.
Society seems to have become massively puritanical about this sort of stuff unless it has a rainbow flag attached.
Further proof that Australia will soon be a republic.
The Australian state of Victoria has pulled out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games due to projected cost overruns, placing the future of the quadrennial event in doubt.
The Premier of Victoria, Dan Andrews, said the cost of the Games, which would have been held in four regional hubs, could blow out to more than A$7 billion (about £3.7 billion) from a budgeted A$2.6 billion (£1.4 billion) if they went ahead.
“Frankly A$6-A$7 billion for a 12-day sporting event, we’re not doing that,” Andrews said. “I will not take money out of hospitals and schools to fund an event that is three times the cost as estimated and budgeted for last year.”
Pathetic by the Labor government of Australian, the Liberal Opposition Leader rightfully slammed them as putting future hosting of sport events in Australia and the state at risk. Leftwing woke hatred of Australian history now even extends to the Commonwealth games it seems and no wonder polls for the Voice referendum in the autumn get ever closer as rural Australia and suburban Australia revolts against the left liberal urban elite
Or the Premier of Victoria realised that whilst the Commonwealths are “nice” they are second tier and the money should be spent on more vital things right now. Can you imagine the outrage if Rishi said “it’s ok we’ll take it on and spend a few billion on hosting” whilst the economy is rather uncomfortable right now?
Macron should cancel the Paris 2024 Olympics then and spend the money on French healthcare instead
I think even the most one-eyed Empire nostalgic would admit that the Olympics is several orders of magnitude more important than the Commonwealths for everyone concerned, save for the very small Crown dependencies.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Definitely more of a medialand story and obviously Edwards and Schofield are many, many times more famous.
He's a real piece of work though and I hope he gets proper comeuppance.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
Schofield tried to do a “Kevin Spacey”, and bury the story of him grooming a teenager as being that of a brave man coming out. He almost succeeded as well.
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
Male or female does make a difference, surely, at least until we see a flurry of stories about men being perverts for paying women on Only Fans or looking at bare breasts on page three.
If Schofield had been caught f***ing the teenage female intern, he’d have been fired three years ago, rather than getting away with his deflective sob-story about his “bravery” in coming out.
Edwards I don’t know enough detail, and don’t want to speculate and get OGH in trouble - but if a teenage girl on OF came forward alleging a long-running paid relationship with the news anchor, there would still be a problem. At that level, you’re expected to be the squeakiest of the squeaky clean, in practice as well as in theory. That’s what the £400k salary is for, you can afford the type of sex workers who are discreet enough to go away in the morning, no matter who you are.
Wootton, we don’t know yet, but I suspect he’s in big trouble.
Page 3 has gone away, no longer considered acceptable in newspapers since 2015.
Well, there have been stories about heterosexual men shagging women who worked for them, not least in politics, but it did not end their careers (not this century anyway).
Matt Hancock disagrees!
I think the bigger issue is the ages of the people involved, and the power relationship between the partners at the time they met.
Now, it maybe that homosexual relationships are more likely to involve very young (but legal) partners, and from my limited knowledge of gay culture that’s known to be a fetish on both sides - but it doesn’t make it homophobic to call out a relationship between someone in their 50s and a teenager they work alongside, no matter what the sexuality of the participants.
I went to a lowish achievement state school with an old school headmaster - any thought that a teacher was merely training these kids to be on the dole was strictly verboten and banding and setting was strongly adhered to. I don't remember much disruption in the classroom, though the horizons were narrow.
Went abroad once before I was 19, to the Tirol, with my junior school on one of those little paper orange passports.
State sixth form was very good.
I think it's right that the promotion of mediocrity is the curse of private education that we bear.
My daughter goes to a state grammar school, taking with her average 11+ results (they were ranked) and has soared there. A lot of our decision though was based on her character and the alternatives. However, the mediocrity of those who prep schooled next to the state primary kids is palpable.
I don't think state or private education have a monopoly on indifference and incompetence.
I went to a Belgian state school until I was 12 and as far as I can remember it was excellent. Then I went to a (very expensive) private school in DC. I couldn't read or write English very well and they didn't give a fuck so just let me concentrate on sports (shooting, wrestling, baseball). After that I went to a British boarding school and they soon realised they had a fourth Irish literary titan (after Wilde, Beckett and Joyce) on their hands and put tremendous effort into me in general and my English in particular.
It's good that my parents had the social and financial capital to allow all of that. If I had gone to a comp in one of the UK' s un-levelled up northern oblasts I'd be dead or in jail now.
I know averages can be deceptive but how many families who use private schools *don't* have a hol abroad?
In answer to the second question, a very large number. It was one of the things you noticed in the mid-level private schools I worked in and with, that many of the children talked about their camping holidays in Devon.
I don't take foreign holidays myself very often (I haven't left the country since Covid hit) so I don't know how much they cost these days. However, prep school fees often hover around the £5-6,000 mark which doesn't sound ridiculously out of line for a family holiday in a tourist hotspot in say Spain.
Keegan is an idiot but she isn't making a stupid point here. Far too much discourse about private schools is skewed towards the top end, not considering the cheaper end.
That has rather different problems of its own that need addressing but they never get talked about.
Are you sure about your figure of £5k-£6k? From what I can see that is the typical average PER TERM. In which case £15k would get you a good holiday in Europe.
£15k is now about average day school fees. Inflation in school fees has been running a lot higher than inflation in holidays for quite some time. Back in my day(!) three decades ago, a week in Majorca for a family was about the same as the year’s school fees.
Add me to the list of PBers who had one foreign holiday in seven years while attending a private secondary school. It’s a decision made by many, many parents in that boat.
Is there a list of PBers who never set foot outside the UK until they turned 20 and whose parents would never even have considered sending them to private school? (State grammar and a week camping in Wales for me)
It's a bit four Yorkshiremen on here this morning.
You tell PBers today you didn't go to a private school or have a foreign holiday. They won't believe you.
You went to a grammar school, they damage comprehensive school children more than fee paying schools could ever do.
Mrs Thatcher's second finest achievement was closing down so many grammar schools.
If you go to a grammar school, by definition you're not a 'comprehensive school child,' surely?
I know I’m talking grammar schools damaging nearby local comprehensives.
We private school boys much prefer comprehensives as less competition. Only grammars really challenge private schools in terms of Oxbridge entry and top A levels
Strange. I could have sworn that I achieved three grade A A-levels (when that meant something) from a bog-standard comp in the north east.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Silly misconception on your behalf, there were plenty of working class Northerners at Cambridge, there were very few posho twats.
No there were fuck loads of posho twats. The place was theirs. I still don't know if I was right to go to Cambridge, a lot of the time I felt quite uncomfortable and unhappy there. I did meet my wife there though, so on balance it was a positive experience.
I loved my time there, no joking, I was quiet and shy before I went to university.
That place gave me a fucktonne of self confidence and belief in myself.
The one thing I am glad about is that I avoided student politics and focussed on my studies.
My mother hates Cambridge though, prior to me going there I was a very good Muslim boy.
So your private school was a waste of money on the fucktonne of self confidence and self belief front?
A little bit. My teachers told me I had ability and applied myself well.
It was at university where the rocket boosters were added on the self confidence front.
I think I learned that self belief wasn’t synonymous with arrogance, a trait I’ve always avoided.
Igor Strelkov says that Russia can't survive another six years of the "cowardly mediocrity" Putin.
Brilliant. Let the orcs keep fighting with each other.
Now, about that big bridge…
I'd say Prigozhin would have had a shot at the leadership post Putin but the attempted coup has probably nixxed his chances. Muscovites wouldn't tolerate being ruled by a Chechen so the Akhmat sila chap is out to my mind .Medvedev might be the one. I think Putin does stay another term mind.
Igor Strelkov says that Russia can't survive another six years of the "cowardly mediocrity" Putin.
Brilliant. Let the orcs keep fighting with each other.
Now, about that big bridge…
I'd say Prigozhin would have had a shot at the leadership post Putin but the attempted coup has probably nixxed his chances. Medvedev might be the one. I think Putin does stay another term mind.
Israel lent some ancient archaeological artifacts to the White House in 2019. They went missing and are now apparently in Mar-a-Lago, with Israeli authorities unable to get them back from Trump https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1681191003624013824
Israel lent some ancient archaeological artifacts to the White House in 2019. They went missing and are now apparently in Mar-a-Lago, with Israeli authorities unable to get them back from Trump https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1681191003624013824
Bold move to piss off the Israelis.
Send an email to Trump to kick open the crate with burnt off swastika on the side. Bonus points if he has Fucker Carlson in the room when he does.
The Court of Appeal reduces the abortion lady’s sentence from 28 months to 14 months suspended.
I think that's fair. She's going to have an awful lot of difficulties in her life with the sentence still.
Dame Victoria Sharp, sitting with Lord Justice Holroyde and Mrs Justice Lambert, said Foster’s sentence would be reduced to 14 months and that it should be suspended.
“This is a very sad case … It is a case that calls for compassion, not punishment,” Sharp said.
Igor Strelkov says that Russia can't survive another six years of the "cowardly mediocrity" Putin.
Brilliant. Let the orcs keep fighting with each other.
Now, about that big bridge…
I'd say Prigozhin would have had a shot at the leadership post Putin but the attempted coup has probably nixxed his chances. Medvedev might be the one. I think Putin does stay another term mind.
Further proof that Australia will soon be a republic.
The Australian state of Victoria has pulled out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games due to projected cost overruns, placing the future of the quadrennial event in doubt.
The Premier of Victoria, Dan Andrews, said the cost of the Games, which would have been held in four regional hubs, could blow out to more than A$7 billion (about £3.7 billion) from a budgeted A$2.6 billion (£1.4 billion) if they went ahead.
“Frankly A$6-A$7 billion for a 12-day sporting event, we’re not doing that,” Andrews said. “I will not take money out of hospitals and schools to fund an event that is three times the cost as estimated and budgeted for last year.”
Pathetic by the Labor government of Australian, the Liberal Opposition Leader rightfully slammed them as putting future hosting of sport events in Australia and the state at risk. Leftwing woke hatred of Australian history now even extends to the Commonwealth games it seems and no wonder polls for the Voice referendum in the autumn get ever closer as rural Australia and suburban Australia revolts against the left liberal urban elite
Or the Premier of Victoria realised that whilst the Commonwealths are “nice” they are second tier and the money should be spent on more vital things right now. Can you imagine the outrage if Rishi said “it’s ok we’ll take it on and spend a few billion on hosting” whilst the economy is rather uncomfortable right now?
Macron should cancel the Paris 2024 Olympics then and spend the money on French healthcare instead
I think even the most one-eyed Empire nostalgic would admit that the Olympics is several orders of magnitude more important than the Commonwealths for everyone concerned, save for the very small Crown dependencies.
3.7 Billion for an athletics tournament consist of
1) 3.6 Billion in vanity buildings, corruption etc 2) 100 million (maybe) on athlete's accommodation, actually running the games etc
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Two differences are that hardly anyone has heard of Dan Wootton whereas Huw Edwards and Philip Schofield were known across the land, and that there are many more allegations against Wootton so the case is harder to follow, at least for this bear of little brain who gave up halfway through.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
Schofield tried to do a “Kevin Spacey”, and bury the story of him grooming a teenager as being that of a brave man coming out. He almost succeeded as well.
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
Male or female does make a difference, surely, at least until we see a flurry of stories about men being perverts for paying women on Only Fans or looking at bare breasts on page three.
Page 3 was stopped a while back - because it became socially unacceptable.
Society seems to have become massively puritanical about this sort of stuff unless it has a rainbow flag attached.
We're in a really odd place where incredibly hardcore pornography is easily available to all in a few clicks, yet wider society has simultaneously become very puritanical.
Though I'd argue that Page 3 became obsolete a long time before 2015 (roundabout when Eurotrash was on Channel 4).
Igor Strelkov says that Russia can't survive another six years of the "cowardly mediocrity" Putin.
Brilliant. Let the orcs keep fighting with each other.
Now, about that big bridge…
I'd say Prigozhin would have had a shot at the leadership post Putin but the attempted coup has probably nixxed his chances. Medvedev might be the one. I think Putin does stay another term mind.
Igor Strelkov says that Russia can't survive another six years of the "cowardly mediocrity" Putin.
Brilliant. Let the orcs keep fighting with each other.
Now, about that big bridge…
I'd say Prigozhin would have had a shot at the leadership post Putin but the attempted coup has probably nixxed his chances. Medvedev might be the one. I think Putin does stay another term mind.
Medvedev is living in the bottom of a Vodka bottle these days, and only got the presidency *because* he couldn´t use it against the rest of the Vory.
Yup - remember, way, way back when Putin swapped jobs with him for constitutional reasons (PM and President)?
Medvedev tried to do something on his own, that could be seen as slightly not how Putin wanted things. Putin put Medvedev back in his box in about 1 second. Since then, he's been a loyal puppet.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Definitely more of a medialand story and obviously Edwards and Schofield are many, many times more famous.
He's a real piece of work though and I hope he gets proper comeuppance.
But in some ways more significant. Schofield and Edwards are on the screen, but the real power lies with the people we never see.
And having a show on GB News is a good approximation to never being seen.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Dan Wootton didn’t tell the Nation, and the World, that the Queen had passed on.
Yes, it does appear to be another media scandal, and he’s getting cancelled at best. Let’s hope that the rest of the media remembers to carry on reporting the actual news this time.
Worth bearing in mind that Wootton was executive editor of The Sun for a while (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Wootton), so he wasn't just a writer or performer. How much of a difference that makes and in what direction, I'm not sure.
It’s very much an aggravating factor. He was the line manager of his accusers, which is very different to an external ‘talent’ who comes in and does their own thing.
The Court of Appeal reduces the abortion lady’s sentence from 28 months to 14 months suspended.
I think that's fair. She's going to have an awful lot of difficulties in her life with the sentence still.
Dame Victoria Sharp, sitting with Lord Justice Holroyde and Mrs Justice Lambert, said Foster’s sentence would be reduced to 14 months and that it should be suspended.
“This is a very sad case … It is a case that calls for compassion, not punishment,” Sharp said.
That's all well and good, but did the original judge make a mistake in law? I can't see the full judgment online yet.
Igor Strelkov says that Russia can't survive another six years of the "cowardly mediocrity" Putin.
Brilliant. Let the orcs keep fighting with each other.
Now, about that big bridge…
I'd say Prigozhin would have had a shot at the leadership post Putin but the attempted coup has probably nixxed his chances. Medvedev might be the one. I think Putin does stay another term mind.
Medvedev is living in the bottom of a Vodka bottle these days, and only got the presidency *because* he couldn´t use it against the rest of the Vory.
It didn't stop Yeltsin becoming Pres.
Partly he had some real following, before the drink took him, and partly because he had a big faction of the thieves using him as cover.
Putin has created a system of competing factions - classic dictator style - none of who have an overwhelming advantage. So he can play them off against each other, and not risk any of them going for the throne.
The Court of Appeal reduces the abortion lady’s sentence from 28 months to 14 months suspended.
I think that's fair. She's going to have an awful lot of difficulties in her life with the sentence still.
Dame Victoria Sharp, sitting with Lord Justice Holroyde and Mrs Justice Lambert, said Foster’s sentence would be reduced to 14 months and that it should be suspended.
“This is a very sad case … It is a case that calls for compassion, not punishment,” Sharp said.
That's all well and good, but did the original judge make a mistake in law? I can't see the full judgment online yet.
Quite. This was a premeditated infanticide, she knew exactly what she was doing. The trial judge was quite clear in the reasoning for the custodial sentence.
I can't phrase this because I don't know what the Smithsons will allow me to say. But phrasing it in an anodyne manner as possible, the accusations against Dan Wotton involve far more men, more physical contact, more deception and more harassment than Huw Edwards. But despite this PB has a right-wing/anti-BBC slant and will refuse to discuss Wotton with the same glee. This is why Huw Edwards is currently in a mental asylum and Dan Wotton is interviewing Stanley Johnson, a [redacted] who [redacted] his wife and went on foreign holidays during Covid. It is a bad world.
Dan Wootton didn’t tell the Nation, and the World, that the Queen had passed on.
Yes, it does appear to be another media scandal, and he’s getting cancelled at best. Let’s hope that the rest of the media remembers to carry on reporting the actual news this time.
Worth bearing in mind that Wootton was executive editor of The Sun for a while (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Wootton), so he wasn't just a writer or performer. How much of a difference that makes and in what direction, I'm not sure.
It’s very much an aggravating factor. He was the line manager of his accusers, which is very different to an external ‘talent’ who comes in and does their own thing.
Oh bloody hell.
Can I just point out that my test at the time the X (now revealed to be Edwards) story broke was whether or not it was on or off duty, so to speak? By that criterion, this has the potential to be bad.
Comments
Labour might temper the edges of the more disgusting elements of the current regime - Rwanda? International development?
Not really selling the benefits of state education, there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayble#/media/File:Pabail.jpg
Edit: Though, of course, Leon has been to Stornoway - much credit to him.
What mildly disturbs me about these cases is that all involve gay men, and certainly in the first two cases, it is hard to see what was actually illegal or even greatly objectionable. Is there an element of homophobia in there?
https://feweek.co.uk/no-plans-to-exempt-colleges-from-vat-says-treasury-secretary/
Spacey is now on trial for criminal offences, and had Elton John testifying for him in court the other day.
Edwards, whether he was commissioning private porn from an 18-year-old male or female makes no difference, he’s still a pervert.
Wootton actually looks like he might be in more serious trouble. He was a manager, as well as a ‘talent’, and some of the allegations concern people who worked for him directly. It’s only not as much of a story as the others, because most people don’t know of him.
Simpler than trying to drive reality into their heads.
https://nitter.net/rubytrubes/status/1679240800310382593
https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/17/gb-news-star-dan-wootton-unmasked-in-cash-for-sexual-images-catfishing-scandal/
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2023/07/11/fa421/1
Given the importance of children for the future ...
David Cameron
@David_Cameron
It's the 10th anniversary of the Same Sex Marriage Act, one of my proudest achievements as PM. Thousands of gay couples have been able to make their vows over the past decade as a result. It's proof that positive change happens when we all work for it. A very happy anniversary!
Jul 17, 2023 · 2:05 PM UTC
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/1680941773273563142
The Defence Secretary hit out at a Twitter user who claimed he had conducted an “affair with Liz Truss” and participated in “copious cocaine usage” ... Mr Wallace replied that he was “surprised you didn’t expose that I am really an alien who is from the planet Krypton…!” He added: “You really are sad sabs!”
When Jeremy Vine was defamed on twitter he didn't "hit out," he got a legally-compelled apology in double quick time.
I wonder what lies behind the difference in approach.
I always answer "selflessness" when asked What's your worst fault in interviews.
I didn't apply to Cambridge as I didn't want to spend three years surrounded by posho twats. (Mind, there was still a sprinkling of twats at Brum.)
Went abroad once before I was 19, to the Tirol, with my junior school on one of those little paper orange passports.
State sixth form was very good.
I think it's right that the promotion of mediocrity is the curse of private education that we bear.
My daughter goes to a state grammar school, taking with her average 11+ results (they were ranked) and has soared there. A lot of our decision though was based on her character and the alternatives. However, the mediocrity of those who prep schooled next to the state primary kids is palpable.
At Reading festival, they had bins all over the place. people picking litter and giving way free bin bags. And yet, after the festival was over you'd need to scrape and sieve the topsoil, before letting animals graze there again.
Worst of all, the Commonwealth games encourages Scottish nationalism.
That place gave me a fucktonne of self confidence and belief in myself.
The one thing I am glad about is that I avoided student politics and focussed on my studies.
My mother hates Cambridge though, prior to me going there I was a very good Muslim boy.
I think it very much depended on your subject. Science and Engineering had far fewer then, eg, PPE.
Robbing barsteward..... Bzzzzz.
Kids loved deleting files to make him appear...
I didn't have a scooby doo.
And it's blooming expensive to be there now - the cheapest student rental for 23/24 was £6800 - I know because we almost took a friend of twin A in because she could have commuted in with twin A...
I bet this is another area where swing voters are more extreme than everyone else.
Edwards I don’t know enough detail, and don’t want to speculate and get OGH in trouble - but if a teenage girl on OF came forward alleging a long-running paid relationship with the news anchor, there would still be a problem. At that level, you’re expected to be the squeakiest of the squeaky clean, in practice as well as in theory. That’s what the £400k salary is for, you can afford the type of sex workers who are discreet enough to go away in the morning, no matter who you are.
Wootton, we don’t know yet, but I suspect he’s in big trouble. He was a line manager of the accusers.
Page 3 has gone away, no longer considered acceptable in newspapers since 2015.
Now, about that big bridge…
Westminster voting intention:
LAB: 48% (+2)
CON: 24% (-4)
LDEM: 11% (+2)
via
@DeltapollUK, 14 - 17 Jul
https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1681241280842530817?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
I think this story exemplifies what I mean best:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tube-ad-with-topless-man-58-banned-for-objectifying-the-model-who-features-in-it-a4017451.html
He's a real piece of work though and I hope he gets proper comeuppance.
I think the bigger issue is the ages of the people involved, and the power relationship between the partners at the time they met.
Now, it maybe that homosexual relationships are more likely to involve very young (but legal) partners, and from my limited knowledge of gay culture that’s known to be a fetish on both sides - but it doesn’t make it homophobic to call out a relationship between someone in their 50s and a teenager they work alongside, no matter what the sexuality of the participants.
I went to a Belgian state school until I was 12 and as far as I can remember it was excellent. Then I went to a (very expensive) private school in DC. I couldn't read or write English very well and they didn't give a fuck so just let me concentrate on sports (shooting, wrestling, baseball). After that I went to a British boarding school and they soon realised they had a fourth Irish literary titan (after Wilde, Beckett and Joyce) on their hands and put tremendous effort into me in general and my English in particular.
It's good that my parents had the social and financial capital to allow all of that. If I had gone to a comp in one of the UK' s un-levelled up northern oblasts I'd be dead or in jail now.
It was at university where the rocket boosters were added on the self confidence
front.
I think I learned that self belief wasn’t synonymous with arrogance, a trait I’ve always avoided.
BJO please explain.
months to 14 months suspended.
Edit link
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jul/18/carla-foster-woman-jailed-obtaining-tablets-pregnancy-freed-appeal?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Putin is *only* President for Life
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/dc6261a8-b72c-4bf7-a2cb-4007324086af
Hope the Crown appeals that. The judge was quite clear in the reasons for the custodial sentence.
“This is a very sad case … It is a case that calls for compassion, not punishment,” Sharp said.
1) 3.6 Billion in vanity buildings, corruption etc
2) 100 million (maybe) on athlete's accommodation, actually running the games etc
Though I'd argue that Page 3 became obsolete a long time before 2015 (roundabout when Eurotrash was on Channel 4).
Medvedev tried to do something on his own, that could be seen as slightly not how Putin wanted things. Putin put Medvedev back in his box in about 1 second. Since then, he's been a loyal puppet.
And having a show on GB News is a good approximation to never being seen.
Putin has created a system of competing factions - classic dictator style - none of who have an overwhelming advantage. So he can play them off against each other, and not risk any of them going for the throne.
Can I just point out that my test at the time the X (now revealed to be Edwards) story broke was whether or not it was on or off duty, so to speak? By that criterion, this has the potential to be bad.