The LAB lead continues to stay in double figures – politicalbetting.com
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So unless there is a ministerial statement at 3.30pm, that’s when the very naughty boy debate starts, and continues through into the evening.0
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dixiedean said:
Suspecting you may be trans isn't a mental health issue.Leon said:
If a kid is exhibiting mental health issues it is your duty to alert the parentsdixiedean said:Have read the linked guidance from the Sun.
Hopefully, that's just the Sun's spin on it and the official stuff will be more nuanced.
But if that is anywhere near the policy that will be imposed, then I'll find another job. I won't be alone. My whole career has been about keeping children safe. I will not be outing them to potentially violent
parents for Tory culture war comfort.
Good luck filling the teacher vacancies.
I raise mental health issues every day.
Fuck all is done about them.
Unless you consider putting them on a 2 year plus waiting list to be doing summat.
What it says is that you think that you, as an agent of the state, have primacy over the family unit in child raising
The default should be disclosure. If there is evidenced risk of harm then there could be a case for non disclosure but it shouldn’t be the starting position
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Depends on the parent.rcs1000 said:
Should you alert a parent if their child is gay?Leon said:
If a kid is exhibiting mental health issues it is your duty to alert the parentsdixiedean said:Have read the linked guidance from the Sun.
Hopefully, that's just the Sun's spin on it and the official stuff will be more nuanced.
But if that is anywhere near the policy that will be imposed, then I'll find another job. I won't be alone. My whole career has been about keeping children safe. I will not be outing them to potentially violent
parents for Tory culture war comfort.
Good luck filling the teacher vacancies.0 -
For those who love subtle, character based films, Extraction 2 is out.
Strangely, rather than philosophical debates on the nature of truth and Quantum Mechanics at a dinner party, this sequel concentrates on Chris Hemsworth killing *everyone*. Non stop.1 -
The stench snd stain of Boris will trail after Sunak until polling dayFF43 said:.
Where do you see Tory prospects of success that they can build on and point to at the next election?DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Rishi needs to do something spectacularly good for the voters but what that might be .. I have no.idea ....it deserves a thread in its own right.
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Which is precisely why one group is screaming that there is absolutely no conflict between the rights of groups. Since if there is no conflict, then it’s all about the rights of a single group. And therefore there is no reason for the state to mediate or compromise in any way.Foxy said:0 -
I have never said there is no conflict of rights.Malmesbury said:
Which is precisely why one group is screaming that there is absolutely no conflict between the rights of groups. Since if there is no conflict, then it’s all about the rights of a single group. And therefore there is no reason for the state to mediate or compromise in any way.Foxy said:
The current agenda is not the expansion of rights, but rather the rolling back of existing rights for Transfolk. For example the current rules require someone to live as their desired gender for 2 years in order to get a GRC. How are they to do that without ever going to a toilet or changing room?0 -
There is the kinda sad problem of someone who decries the decline of Main Street America due to opiate addiction, yet feels the need to abuse Tramadol because there is no bar flight side in Cincinnati airport. Cognitive dissonance or just hypocrisy?Malmesbury said:0 -
I didn’t say you did.Foxy said:
I have never said there is no conflict of rights.Malmesbury said:
Which is precisely why one group is screaming that there is absolutely no conflict between the rights of groups. Since if there is no conflict, then it’s all about the rights of a single group. And therefore there is no reason for the state to mediate or compromise in any way.Foxy said:
The current agenda is not the expansion of rights, but rather the rolling back of existing rights for Transfolk. For example the current rules require someone to live as their desired gender for 2 years in order to get a GRC. How are they to do that without ever going to a toilet or changing room?
The actual reality is, of course that it’s a case of whatever for most adults, some evidence based medicine with proper data collection and a small number of issues where the state does need to intervene.
Such as the recent issue with an unfriendly type of person and women’s prisons.
I think the answer to that comes in some kind of “Danger to Group X” order - applied for via the courts, with all the usual options for appeal etc.
Such things shouldn’t be the fiat of a government minister (or First Minister)0 -
Irregular verb time.Foxy said:
There is the kinda sad problem of someone who decries the decline of Main Street America due to opiate addiction, yet feels the need to abuse Tramadol because there is no bar flight side in Cincinnati airport. Cognitive dissonance or just hypocrisy?Malmesbury said:
I’ve previously commented on the hypocrisy of the War on Drugs. Around the Western World, if you have the right money, you can find a doctor who will proscribe exactly what you want, legally. In the U.K. these private prescriptions are sometime re-written as NHS. So we get to pay for them (in part)1 -
I don't think there is much abuse of prescription opiates yet in the UK, but we may well follow America in these things.Malmesbury said:
Irregular verb time.Foxy said:
There is the kinda sad problem of someone who decries the decline of Main Street America due to opiate addiction, yet feels the need to abuse Tramadol because there is no bar flight side in Cincinnati airport. Cognitive dissonance or just hypocrisy?Malmesbury said:
I’ve previously commented on the hypocrisy of the War on Drugs. Around the Western World, if you have the right money, you can find a doctor who will proscribe exactly what you want, legally. In the U.K. these private prescriptions are sometime re-written as NHS. So we get to pay for them (in part)0 -
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
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Fair play to the Commons filling the time with something completely pointless and irrelevant whilst the Test Match reaches a conclusion. I hope the weather doesn't interfere with their efforts.IanB2 said:So unless there is a ministerial statement at 3.30pm, that’s when the very naughty boy debate starts, and continues through into the evening.
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War is the pursuit of philosophy by other means.Malmesbury said:For those who love subtle, character based films, Extraction 2 is out.
Strangely, rather than philosophical debates on the nature of truth and Quantum Mechanics at a dinner party, this sequel concentrates on Chris Hemsworth killing *everyone*. Non stop.0 -
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.0 -
I don’t think we will follow America in that - the NHS is too parsimonious to supply a double digit percentage of the population with whatever the latest version of Oxy is.Foxy said:
I don't think there is much abuse of prescription opiates yet in the UK, but we may well follow America in these things.Malmesbury said:
Irregular verb time.Foxy said:
There is the kinda sad problem of someone who decries the decline of Main Street America due to opiate addiction, yet feels the need to abuse Tramadol because there is no bar flight side in Cincinnati airport. Cognitive dissonance or just hypocrisy?Malmesbury said:
I’ve previously commented on the hypocrisy of the War on Drugs. Around the Western World, if you have the right money, you can find a doctor who will proscribe exactly what you want, legally. In the U.K. these private prescriptions are sometime re-written as NHS. So we get to pay for them (in part)
It’s just that the NU10K have legal uppers and downers on tap. Drugs have been legalised for rich people. And when they fuck up, their chums put pressure on physiatrists to get them off “the punishment track” and into The Priory.0 -
1
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And then kicked him out.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
You should try that with Johnson.0 -
I am not, and never have been, a member of the Conservative party. And he wasn't foisted on the British people by the party, he won an election with a very comfortable majority just over 3 years ago. FWIW I agree some blue wall seats are going to fall but they may well go yellow rather than red.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.1 -
Should you alert the parents if you know the issue is connected to the parents?rcs1000 said:
Should you alert a parent if their child is gay?Leon said:
If a kid is exhibiting mental health issues it is your duty to alert the parentsdixiedean said:Have read the linked guidance from the Sun.
Hopefully, that's just the Sun's spin on it and the official stuff will be more nuanced.
But if that is anywhere near the policy that will be imposed, then I'll find another job. I won't be alone. My whole career has been about keeping children safe. I will not be outing them to potentially violent
parents for Tory culture war comfort.
Good luck filling the teacher vacancies.0 -
See the 2nd verse of Lily Allen’s “Everyone’s At It”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY5r9VYIzFkMalmesbury said:
Irregular verb time.Foxy said:
There is the kinda sad problem of someone who decries the decline of Main Street America due to opiate addiction, yet feels the need to abuse Tramadol because there is no bar flight side in Cincinnati airport. Cognitive dissonance or just hypocrisy?Malmesbury said:
I’ve previously commented on the hypocrisy of the War on Drugs. Around the Western World, if you have the right money, you can find a doctor who will proscribe exactly what you want, legally. In the U.K. these private prescriptions are sometime re-written as NHS. So we get to pay for them (in part)1 -
Well, I'm not a Conservative member, and never have been. So it's not up to 'me'.Nigelb said:
And then kicked him out.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
You should try that with Johnson.
But yes, they should chuck him out.
(Incidentally, I wonder if Sturgeon will be an SNP member in a year's time?)0 -
Ultima ratio regumNigelb said:
War is the pursuit of philosophy by other means.Malmesbury said:For those who love subtle, character based films, Extraction 2 is out.
Strangely, rather than philosophical debates on the nature of truth and Quantum Mechanics at a dinner party, this sequel concentrates on Chris Hemsworth killing *everyone*. Non stop.
Which leads up to the Greatest Hamlet adaption ever
https://youtu.be/YNcN5f3vwro
“Stay thy hand, fair Prince”
“Who said I’m fair?”2 -
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.
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The case for a policy of legalisation, regulation, education and treatment is a very strong one.Malmesbury said:
I don’t think we will follow America in that - the NHS is too parsimonious to supply a double digit percentage of the population with whatever the latest version of Oxy is.Foxy said:
I don't think there is much abuse of prescription opiates yet in the UK, but we may well follow America in these things.Malmesbury said:
Irregular verb time.Foxy said:
There is the kinda sad problem of someone who decries the decline of Main Street America due to opiate addiction, yet feels the need to abuse Tramadol because there is no bar flight side in Cincinnati airport. Cognitive dissonance or just hypocrisy?Malmesbury said:
I’ve previously commented on the hypocrisy of the War on Drugs. Around the Western World, if you have the right money, you can find a doctor who will proscribe exactly what you want, legally. In the U.K. these private prescriptions are sometime re-written as NHS. So we get to pay for them (in part)
It’s just that the NU10K have legal uppers and downers on tap. Drugs have been legalised for rich people. And when they fuck up, their chums put pressure on physiatrists to get them off “the punishment track” and into The Priory.
That for a 'war on drugs' extremely weak.
And yet the latter is the one repeatedly tried by government with varying degrees of futility.
As you say, guilt free tripping for the rich, along with strong incentives for the growth and maintenance of an international criminal industry.
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Isn’t hell raiser to hard line social conservative a standard trope? Any minute now Leon will start selling the Bible to us - probably finding a code in it that shows that UFOs are real.JosiasJessop said:0 -
Apologies - posting too quickly. I didn't intend the insult.JosiasJessop said:
Well, I'm not a Conservative member, and never have been. So it's not up to 'me'.Nigelb said:
And then kicked him out.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
You should try that with Johnson.
But yes, they should chuck him out.
(Incidentally, I wonder if Sturgeon will be an SNP member in a year's time?)1 -
Corbyn’s little helpers were busy pushing out Labour centrists. Why do you think they would have stopped in government? Among other things, they would have been telling themselves that every failure and problem was due to backsliders and traitors with insufficient faith in The Project.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.1 -
Don't believe your own spin. The underlying news of this week is the pitiful state of our economy - if anything Sunak is lucky that Boris's antics relegated that to the finance pages.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.0 -
Too late:Malmesbury said:
Isn’t hell raiser to hard link social conservative a standard trope? Any minute now Leon will start selling the Bible to us - probably finding a code in it that shows that UFOs are real.JosiasJessop said:
Bible of the Dead
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Dead-Tom-Knox/dp/0007344031
The Genesis Secret
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002RI9P9U/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i30 -
Will no one protect The Children from This Kind Of Filth? The Silent Moral Majority must speak up! {insert 500 pages of Mary Whitehouse here}JosiasJessop said:
Too late:Malmesbury said:
Isn’t hell raiser to hard link social conservative a standard trope? Any minute now Leon will start selling the Bible to us - probably finding a code in it that shows that UFOs are real.JosiasJessop said:
Bible of the Dead
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Dead-Tom-Knox/dp/0007344031
The Genesis Secret
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002RI9P9U/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i32 -
Like I said, a shitshow. But not one that could ever have resulted in a majority Corbynite Government. No route for that. If Corbyn won 2017, he would have had to dial it back or the party would have split and the Government fallen.Malmesbury said:
Corbyn’s little helpers were busy pushing out Labour centrists. Why do you think they would have stopped in government? Among other things, they would have been telling themselves that every failure and problem was due to backsliders and traitors with insufficient faith in The Project.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.
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I clicked on the link to read the précis. At the bottom was a click for ‘read less’. It seemed appropriate…JosiasJessop said:
Too late:Malmesbury said:
Isn’t hell raiser to hard link social conservative a standard trope? Any minute now Leon will start selling the Bible to us - probably finding a code in it that shows that UFOs are real.JosiasJessop said:
Bible of the Dead
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Dead-Tom-Knox/dp/0007344031
The Genesis Secret
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002RI9P9U/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i31 -
For more analysis: https://youtu.be/U81wgbYJ7X4 “Explaining UFO Religions”JosiasJessop said:
Too late:Malmesbury said:
Isn’t hell raiser to hard link social conservative a standard trope? Any minute now Leon will start selling the Bible to us - probably finding a code in it that shows that UFOs are real.JosiasJessop said:
Bible of the Dead
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bible-Dead-Tom-Knox/dp/0007344031
The Genesis Secret
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002RI9P9U/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i31 -
Corbyn, conspiracy and Glastonbury:
https://labourlist.org/2023/06/the-big-lie-jeremy-corbyn-glastonbury-screening-film-watch-conspiracy-mason/0 -
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Sunak was lucky last week. Bozo being Bozo meant some seriously bad news - both on Covid deaths at care homes and the real state of the economy was hidden to most people.Luckyguy1983 said:
Don't believe your own spin. The underlying news of this week is the pitiful state of our economy - if anything Sunak is lucky that Boris's antics relegated that to the finance pages.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.1 -
WEAK. WEAK. WEAK...
Rishi Sunak is expected to skip a vote to condemn Boris Johnson today as the former prime minister’s allies prepare to claim that his punishment leaves others ministers “vulnerable to the same treatment”.
Michael Gove, the levelling up secretary, said he disagreed with the 90-day suspension the privileges committee would have imposed on Johnson had he still been an MP, adding that he would abstain in today’s vote.
Most other ministers are also expected to stay away as Sunak attempts to move on from a week of open Tory feuding and call an end to Johnson’s frontline career.0 -
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:2 -
I respect anyone considering a position and changing their mind. I might* have done a few of those myself...CorrectHorseBat said:I am not trolling and everyone who knows me here would agree.
I supported lockdowns at the time. I was wrong, I have changed my mind. Please allow me some respect for being open about it. So many aren’t.
Lockdown was inevitable. You cannot say to people as a virus starts killing large numbers of people that they should ignore it and carry on as normal. The NHS on a repeated basis came perilously close to being completely overwhelmed - so without lockdown we would have had the nightingale "hospitals" manned by a few army medics as the dying were bussed in then directly cremated out the back.
When the government tried to get everyone to carry on there was the inevitable self-locking down, where people simply chose not to go out and spend their money in Starbucks as ordered. That would have happened on a massive scale had lockdown not happened.
In this kind of situation you can control the process, or leave it uncontrolled. Control is always the best option.6 -
We will see inflation falling further on Wednesday and positive PMIs at the end of the week. Its a mixed picture for sure but "pitiful"? I don't think so.Luckyguy1983 said:
Don't believe your own spin. The underlying news of this week is the pitiful state of our economy - if anything Sunak is lucky that Boris's antics relegated that to the finance pages.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.2 -
Plenty more huge turds on their way David. It is over for the Tories.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.0 -
LOL, Boris is a tub of Lard.turbotubbs said:
Presumably it’s mostly bulky muscle, not unlike Johnson’s leaner years?CorrectHorseBat said:I saw SKS in person two days ago, I can tell you he is not fat.
0 -
When Labour was in opposition, the party’s MPs have very little power. Once in government that immediately changes. I doubt Corbyn would have survived impact with actual government. Labour would have split. But that is no excuse for having him in charge of the party in the first place.Monksfield said:
Like I said, a shitshow. But not one that could ever have resulted in a majority Corbynite Government. No route for that. If Corbyn won 2017, he would have had to dial it back or the party would have split and the Government fallen.Malmesbury said:
Corbyn’s little helpers were busy pushing out Labour centrists. Why do you think they would have stopped in government? Among other things, they would have been telling themselves that every failure and problem was due to backsliders and traitors with insufficient faith in The Project.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.
0 -
Half witted Cretin opines.CorrectHorseBat said:Give Ukraine to Russia, time to end this silly war
1 -
Interest rates still going up because the rate of core inflation is still going up. Swathes of voters, Tory and otherwise, facing what even the right wing press are calling the Mortgages time bomb.DavidL said:
We will see inflation falling further on Wednesday and positive PMIs at the end of the week. Its a mixed picture for sure but "pitiful"? I don't think so.Luckyguy1983 said:
Don't believe your own spin. The underlying news of this week is the pitiful state of our economy - if anything Sunak is lucky that Boris's antics relegated that to the finance pages.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
In one brief morning you've dismissed parliament investigating Boris! as irrelevant, and dismissed the mortgage hell facing voters as non-existent. Not sure thats a way to get people voting Tory...5 -
Impossible to say, I think ?Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
While it's fairly clear there have always been trans individuals - see, for example, the fascination of early Victorian newspapers with stories of cross dressing - it's pretty hard to even guess at historic numbers.0 -
So what was with the Russian troll turning up yesterday evening?
Are they trying to vary their shifts to be less noticeable, or are even the troll farms imploding?0 -
Tory MPs knew Johnson was a grifting, lying, bone idle, narcissist. But a majority backed him to be their leader and denied he was any of those things. Boris was just Boris, they quipped. The members lapped it up. They didn’t have to choose him. Other options were available.DavidL said:
I am not, and never have been, a member of the Conservative party. And he wasn't foisted on the British people by the party, he won an election with a very comfortable majority just over 3 years ago. FWIW I agree some blue wall seats are going to fall but they may well go yellow rather than red.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
1 -
Oh, I missed it.ydoethur said:So what was with the Russian troll turning up yesterday evening?
Are they trying to vary their shifts to be less noticeable, or are even the troll farms imploding?
0 -
Johnson's political death throes have bought the government a week. Lucky government.eek said:
Sunak was lucky last week. Bozo being Bozo meant some seriously bad news - both on Covid deaths at care homes and the real state of the economy was hidden to most people.Luckyguy1983 said:
Don't believe your own spin. The underlying news of this week is the pitiful state of our economy - if anything Sunak is lucky that Boris's antics relegated that to the finance pages.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Unfortunately for Sunak, the COVID story is going to run and run.
And the grimness of the economic situation is going to be pretty much the same when the Johnson brouhaha dies down.0 -
As a matter of interest, is it possible to guess at historic numbers of gay/lesbian people? There were a few court cases, but aside from that?Nigelb said:
Impossible to say, I think ?Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
While it's fairly clear there have always been trans individuals - see, for example, the fascination of early Victorian newspapers with stories of cross dressing - it's pretty hard to even guess at historic numbers.0 -
That "everything wrong is Starmer's fault, we think everything is getting better, vote Tory" plan in full:
"Is the Government going to do anything to help people who are facing increases in their mortgage rates? "
Sunak: "No"
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/16706762230961274880 -
India heatwave: nearly 100 dead amid warnings to stay indoors
Temperatures of nearly 45C recorded, with people over 60 particularly at risk, as deaths strike Uttar Pradesh and Bihar states
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/19/india-heatwave-scores-dead-warning-stay-indoors-during-day-heat-wave-uttar-pradesh-eastern-bihar0 -
..
I suspect societal changes. Changing your gender comes with huge challenges. I think people who do so are quite brave. But there does seem to be more acceptance in parts of society, particularly amongst younger people, and some businesses are now taking diversity seriously. An acceptance that Sunak etc are trying to roll back to suit their agenda.Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
There used to be someone posting on here who was transitioning. I think they were middle aged with grown up children and, remarkably, a Conservative supporter.0 -
After all, Labour MPs had a vote of no confidence in Jezza in 2016, which passed overwhelmingly.SouthamObserver said:
When Labour was in opposition, the party’s MPs have very little power. Once in government that immediately changes. I doubt Corbyn would have survived impact with actual government. Labour would have split. But that is no excuse for having him in charge of the party in the first place.Monksfield said:
Like I said, a shitshow. But not one that could ever have resulted in a majority Corbynite Government. No route for that. If Corbyn won 2017, he would have had to dial it back or the party would have split and the Government fallen.Malmesbury said:
Corbyn’s little helpers were busy pushing out Labour centrists. Why do you think they would have stopped in government? Among other things, they would have been telling themselves that every failure and problem was due to backsliders and traitors with insufficient faith in The Project.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.
A combination of Labour's rules and Jezza's ego kept the vain fool in place.0 -
The NHS was better at controlling them and thankfully Napp was semi independent of the evil fuckers at PurdueFoxy said:
I don't think there is much abuse of prescription opiates yet in the UK, but weMalmesbury said:
Irregular verb time.Foxy said:
There is the kinda sad problem of someone who decries the decline of Main Street America due to opiate addiction, yet feels the need to abuse Tramadol because there is no bar flight side in Cincinnati airport. Cognitive dissonance or just hypocrisy?Malmesbury said:
I’ve previously commented on the hypocrisy of the War on Drugs. Around the Western World, if you have the right money, you can find a doctor who will proscribe exactly what you want, legally. In the U.K. these private prescriptions are sometime re-written as NHS. So we get to pay for them (in part)
may well follow America in these things.
0 -
Why would being gay be an "issue" and why could it be connected to teh parents.eek said:
Should you alert the parents if you know the issue is connected to the parents?rcs1000 said:
Should you alert a parent if their child is gay?Leon said:
If a kid is exhibiting mental health issues it is your duty to alert the parentsdixiedean said:Have read the linked guidance from the Sun.
Hopefully, that's just the Sun's spin on it and the official stuff will be more nuanced.
But if that is anywhere near the policy that will be imposed, then I'll find another job. I won't be alone. My whole career has been about keeping children safe. I will not be outing them to potentially violent
parents for Tory culture war comfort.
Good luck filling the teacher vacancies.0 -
Meanwhile, in Selby and Ainsty, that new Tory candidate has her finger on the pulse:
"“I know right now people want an MP who’ll only focus on improving our local communities across Selby and Ainsty – not on political point scoring in Westminster.
“That means I will work with Rishi Sunak and the government on our five clear priorities: halving inflation, growing the economy, reducing debt, cutting hospital waiting lists and stopping the boats.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/18/tories-pick-local-councillor-for-selby-and-ainsty-seat-after-johnson-ally-quits
Slogans work in politics - if they resonate. Morning in America. Education Education Education. Get Brexit Done. Something simple that cuts straight to the issue and is a peg you can hang your hat on.
But the 5 priorities? I don't understand Tories who robotically repeat this list of shit - unless the plan is to lose. The ones at the beginning and end perfectly summarise how much of a car crash this list is.
"halving inflation". Sunak is already making excuses as to why he won't hit 5%. And polls have shown punters think (wrongly) this means prices falling.
"stop the boats". Even if this was a national priority (laughable), they are doing the exact opposite. We keep beating the record for the most boat migrants on a single day. And they can't blame Other People for this mess - last year's Stop The Boats act was supposed to stop the boats, did nothing, and so we have this years No Really Stop The Boats bill currently having the crayon rubbed out and attempts at legal policy being put in during all nighters in the Lords.
A candidate who immediately parrots a discredited shame list is going to lose. Because as soon as you get a politician saying "these are your priorities" and your response is "no they aren't", they won't get your vote...3 -
Has transitioned twice. Eadric into Lady_G into Leon.FF43 said:..
I suspect societal changes. Changing your gender comes with huge challenges. I think people who do so are quite brave. But there does seem to be more acceptance in parts of society, particularly amongst younger people, and some businesses are now taking diversity seriously. An acceptance that Sunak etc are trying to roll back to suit their agenda.Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
There used to be someone posting on here who was transitioning. I think they were middle aged with grown up children and, remarkably, a Conservative supporter.1 -
I agree. I don't think the governments had a choice but to lockdown at the points when they dId. They could have locked down smarter, ie earlier, to control the exponential curves in a less damaging way. They could also have made better trade offs between the need to control the disease and avoid isolation, particularly for children, at least for the second and subsequent lockdowns. They could also have managed their financial support programmes better.RochdalePioneers said:
I respect anyone considering a position and changing their mind. I might* have done a few of those myself...CorrectHorseBat said:I am not trolling and everyone who knows me here would agree.
I supported lockdowns at the time. I was wrong, I have changed my mind. Please allow me some respect for being open about it. So many aren’t.
Lockdown was inevitable. You cannot say to people as a virus starts killing large numbers of people that they should ignore it and carry on as normal. The NHS on a repeated basis came perilously close to being completely overwhelmed - so without lockdown we would have had the nightingale "hospitals" manned by a few army medics as the dying were bussed in then directly cremated out the back.
When the government tried to get everyone to carry on there was the inevitable self-locking down, where people simply chose not to go out and spend their money in Starbucks as ordered. That would have happened on a massive scale had lockdown not happened.
In this kind of situation you can control the process, or leave it uncontrolled. Control is always the best option.
But on the whole they dId what they had to do.2 -
They were expelled for voting against the government on a three line whip. I have sympathy for that decisionMonksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with
Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.0 -
What woukd you suggest they do?RochdalePioneers said:That "everything wrong is Starmer's fault, we think everything is getting better, vote Tory" plan in full:
"Is the Government going to do anything to help people who are facing increases in their mortgage rates? "
Sunak: "No"
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/16706762230961274880 -
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/profile/comments/LandsendAndy_JS said:
What name were they using this time?ydoethur said:So what was with the Russian troll turning up yesterday evening?
Are they trying to vary their shifts to be less noticeable, or are even the troll farms imploding?2 -
It used to be calling a tomboy / going through “a phase”. Most grew up to be well adjusted adults and live as happy lives as anyone else.Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
Teenagers have a lot of hormones and it takes a while for the body to process them. I worry that in pathologising uncertainty we are storing up trouble for the future
6 -
In Bootle, everyone hates the Labour party and will never vote for them again.... except on General Election day.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Conservatives are... what... the oldest party in the world? They never do as bad as you think they should and their opponents never as well as they hope.
1964 - After thirteen years and numerous scandals the Labour party manage a majority of 2.
1970 - Labour are going to win this..... oh they didn't.
1997 - John Major still managed a higher vote share than Michael Foot, Gordon Brown and wasn't far off Miliband's 2015 performance, or Corbyn's 2019. Only FPTP left them with 165 seats.
2015 - Hung parliament all the way. No way back for the Tories... oh wait, they won.
With the possible exception of 2017, the Conservatives always do better than expected.0 -
Not a chance - responsible for overthrowing the first Labour government in a decade?SouthamObserver said:
When Labour was in opposition, the party’s MPs have very little power. Once in government that immediately changes. I doubt Corbyn would have survived impact with actual government. Labour would have split. But that is no excuse for having him in charge of the party in the first place.Monksfield said:
Like I said, a shitshow. But not one that could ever have resulted in a majority Corbynite Government. No route for that. If Corbyn won 2017, he would have had to dial it back or the party would have split and the Government fallen.Malmesbury said:
Corbyn’s little helpers were busy pushing out Labour centrists. Why do you think they would have stopped in government? Among other things, they would have been telling themselves that every failure and problem was due to backsliders and traitors with insufficient faith in The Project.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.
They would have stayed in office and “opposed him from inside the tent”. Why empowering him0 -
You've forgotten Byronic.RochdalePioneers said:
Has transitioned twice. Eadric into Lady_G into Leon.FF43 said:..
I suspect societal changes. Changing your gender comes with huge challenges. I think people who do so are quite brave. But there does seem to be more acceptance in parts of society, particularly amongst younger people, and some businesses are now taking diversity seriously. An acceptance that Sunak etc are trying to roll back to suit their agenda.Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
There used to be someone posting on here who was transitioning. I think they were middle aged with grown up children and, remarkably, a Conservative supporter.0 -
Oh yes.ydoethur said:
https://vf.politicalbetting.com/profile/comments/LandsendAndy_JS said:
What name were they using this time?ydoethur said:So what was with the Russian troll turning up yesterday evening?
Are they trying to vary their shifts to be less noticeable, or are even the troll farms imploding?0 -
I agree with your second para but it implies that teenagers should be allowed to experiment without committing irreversible acts. That would in turn imply that the parents should not be informed, not that they should, yes?StillWaters said:
It used to be calling a tomboy / going through “a phase”. Most grew up to be well adjusted adults and live as happy lives as anyone else.Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
Teenagers have a lot of hormones and it takes a while for the body to process them. I worry that in pathologising uncertainty we are storing up trouble for the future
0 -
Damage caused by Stonewall propaganda. Having won gay equality, they needed another issue to justify their relevance, and chose Trans rights.FF43 said:4 -
We needed lockdowns at the time, and slightly earlier. We failed to lock down our borders in order to keep the Simon Calders happy. We were saved by our excellent progress with vaccines.FF43 said:
I agree. I don't think the governments had a choice but to lockdown at the points when they dId. They could have locked down smarter, ie earlier, to control the exponential curves in a less damaging way. They could also have made better trade offs between the need to control the disease and avoid isolation, particularly for children, at least for the second and subsequent lockdowns. They could also have managed their financial support programmes better.RochdalePioneers said:
I respect anyone considering a position and changing their mind. I might* have done a few of those myself...CorrectHorseBat said:I am not trolling and everyone who knows me here would agree.
I supported lockdowns at the time. I was wrong, I have changed my mind. Please allow me some respect for being open about it. So many aren’t.
Lockdown was inevitable. You cannot say to people as a virus starts killing large numbers of people that they should ignore it and carry on as normal. The NHS on a repeated basis came perilously close to being completely overwhelmed - so without lockdown we would have had the nightingale "hospitals" manned by a few army medics as the dying were bussed in then directly cremated out the back.
When the government tried to get everyone to carry on there was the inevitable self-locking down, where people simply chose not to go out and spend their money in Starbucks as ordered. That would have happened on a massive scale had lockdown not happened.
In this kind of situation you can control the process, or leave it uncontrolled. Control is always the best option.
But on the whole they dId what they had to do.2 -
"But Corbyn" is the last excuse that those who helped to put Johnson into power have left, the last fig leaf of political respectibility to cover their embarrassment for enabling this amoral crook and his shambolic mess of a government. It is true that Corbyn was an awful leader, and it was a disgrace that Labour chose him, but he is still a better human being than Johnson is, and would have been completely contained by Labour moderates in government. The only people for whom Johnson was the better choice are the various Tory-adjacent grifters who emerged from the Covid crisis with a new house in the Cotswolds and arguably the Labour Party who now have the opportunity to gain a majority under a moderate leader rather than face a divisive Corbyn administration.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.3 -
Surely with hindsight we can point to a lot of things that they could have done much better?FF43 said:
I agree. I don't think the governments had a choice but to lockdown at the points when they dId. They could have locked down smarter, ie earlier, to control the exponential curves in a less damaging way. They could also have made better trade offs between the need to control the disease and avoid isolation, particularly for children, at least for the second and subsequent lockdowns. They could also have managed their financial support programmes better.RochdalePioneers said:
I respect anyone considering a position and changing their mind. I might* have done a few of those myself...CorrectHorseBat said:I am not trolling and everyone who knows me here would agree.
I supported lockdowns at the time. I was wrong, I have changed my mind. Please allow me some respect for being open about it. So many aren’t.
Lockdown was inevitable. You cannot say to people as a virus starts killing large numbers of people that they should ignore it and carry on as normal. The NHS on a repeated basis came perilously close to being completely overwhelmed - so without lockdown we would have had the nightingale "hospitals" manned by a few army medics as the dying were bussed in then directly cremated out the back.
When the government tried to get everyone to carry on there was the inevitable self-locking down, where people simply chose not to go out and spend their money in Starbucks as ordered. That would have happened on a massive scale had lockdown not happened.
In this kind of situation you can control the process, or leave it uncontrolled. Control is always the best option.
But on the whole they dId what they had to do.
There were some really extreme measures in place - rules against leaving your house for example were inappropriate for the goal of flattening the curve, and far too draconian I think.2 -
There was a picture on Twitter of the latest improvised Russian tank armour - a cage of rocks round the turret.malcolmg said:
Half witted Cretin opines.CorrectHorseBat said:Give Ukraine to Russia, time to end this silly war
I can’t see that passing the muster in a British cavalry regiment - a rockery is fearfully lower middle class.1 -
No, what it means is it both teenagers and parents should be able to access sensible dispassionate advice.viewcode said:
I agree with your second para but it implies that teenagers should be allowed to experiment without committing irreversible acts. That would in turn imply that the parents should not be informed, not that they should, yes?StillWaters said:
It used to be calling a tomboy / going through “a phase”. Most grew up to be well adjusted adults and live as happy lives as anyone else.Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
Teenagers have a lot of hormones and it takes a while for the body to process them. I worry that in pathologising uncertainty we are storing up trouble for the future
And good morning, one, and all!2 -
The question is not whether being gay is an issue, the question is whether the parents believe being gay is an issue and how they would then treat the child.malcolmg said:
Why would being gay be an "issue" and why could it be connected to teh parents.eek said:
Should you alert the parents if you know the issue is connected to the parents?rcs1000 said:
Should you alert a parent if their child is gay?Leon said:
If a kid is exhibiting mental health issues it is your duty to alert the parentsdixiedean said:Have read the linked guidance from the Sun.
Hopefully, that's just the Sun's spin on it and the official stuff will be more nuanced.
But if that is anywhere near the policy that will be imposed, then I'll find another job. I won't be alone. My whole career has been about keeping children safe. I will not be outing them to potentially violent
parents for Tory culture war comfort.
Good luck filling the teacher vacancies.0 -
The government intervened with furlough when it forced businesses to close. There was no alternative - you can't stop someone earning money and not compensate.RochdalePioneers said:That "everything wrong is Starmer's fault, we think everything is getting better, vote Tory" plan in full:
"Is the Government going to do anything to help people who are facing increases in their mortgage rates? "
Sunak: "No"
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1670676223096127488
With the energy crisis a lot of chickens came home to roost. Transitioning to green energy (a good thing) is not yet cheaper than fossil fuels (for the most part). And we have put ourselves in hoc to some unsavoury nations over the years. And that came back to bite us.
Conservative instinct is that people should be self sufficient - its not the states role to pay their bills. But this shock was so sudden and the prospect of millions potentially unable to pay to heat their homes, and possibly freezing and dying as a result, meant that something had to be done.
With mortgages - conservative instinct is that its up to the customer to manage their affairs. If the rates go up and the mortgage payment increases thats on those who borrowed the money. I have a fair amount of sympathy with that view. But not all those in trouble will be idiots who just overstretched and borrowed the maximum because they could. There will be difficulties for people. But should the government step in? Should mine and your tax money, or more government borrowing, be used for other peoples mortgages? I'm not sure.0 -
Which would in turn be ironic.ydoethur said:
You've forgotten Byronic.RochdalePioneers said:
Has transitioned twice. Eadric into Lady_G into Leon.FF43 said:..
I suspect societal changes. Changing your gender comes with huge challenges. I think people who do so are quite brave. But there does seem to be more acceptance in parts of society, particularly amongst younger people, and some businesses are now taking diversity seriously. An acceptance that Sunak etc are trying to roll back to suit their agenda.Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
There used to be someone posting on here who was transitioning. I think they were middle aged with grown up children and, remarkably, a Conservative supporter.0 -
Its fine to change your mind. Facts change, intelligent people change what they think.RochdalePioneers said:
I respect anyone considering a position and changing their mind. I might* have done a few of those myself...CorrectHorseBat said:I am not trolling and everyone who knows me here would agree.
I supported lockdowns at the time. I was wrong, I have changed my mind. Please allow me some respect for being open about it. So many aren’t.
Lockdown was inevitable. You cannot say to people as a virus starts killing large numbers of people that they should ignore it and carry on as normal. The NHS on a repeated basis came perilously close to being completely overwhelmed - so without lockdown we would have had the nightingale "hospitals" manned by a few army medics as the dying were bussed in then directly cremated out the back.
When the government tried to get everyone to carry on there was the inevitable self-locking down, where people simply chose not to go out and spend their money in Starbucks as ordered. That would have happened on a massive scale had lockdown not happened.
In this kind of situation you can control the process, or leave it uncontrolled. Control is always the best option.
But to say lockdowns were wrong is not about facts changing. There was no real alternative in March 2020. There could have been other approaches later in the year, but realistically without vaccines, opening society in our crowded islands was always going to be tough.
Someone on here (I think @kle4) said that if lockdowns worked, after we would say they weren't needed. Sadly this is becoming the narrative for too many people.7 -
Actually, it isn't, it is to do what is best for the child - sometimes that includes discussing with their parents; sometimes it doesn't.Leon said:
If a kid is exhibiting mental health issues it is your duty to alert the parentsdixiedean said:Have read the linked guidance from the Sun.
Hopefully, that's just the Sun's spin on it and the official stuff will be more nuanced.
But if that is anywhere near the policy that will be imposed, then I'll find another job. I won't be alone. My whole career has been about keeping children safe. I will not be outing them to potentially violent
parents for Tory culture war comfort.
Good luck filling the teacher vacancies.
When I was in my teens my depression was made worse due to my relationship with my dad - the school knew this and decided it was in my best interest to not always include my dad in conversations about these things. That was beneficial to me.
My school also did out 2 boys as gay to their family (because the deputy head was a massive homophobe). One was made homeless at 15.
Being gay was also, once, considered a mental illness.5 -
They nonetheless seem quite content to find underwriters for Conservative Prime Ministers/ National Treasures who require £800,000 but have disastrous credit scores.turbotubbs said:
The government intervened with furlough when it forced businesses to close. There was no alternative - you can't stop someone earning money and not compensate.RochdalePioneers said:That "everything wrong is Starmer's fault, we think everything is getting better, vote Tory" plan in full:
"Is the Government going to do anything to help people who are facing increases in their mortgage rates? "
Sunak: "No"
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1670676223096127488
With the energy crisis a lot of chickens came home to roost. Transitioning to green energy (a good thing) is not yet cheaper than fossil fuels (for the most part). And we have put ourselves in hoc to some unsavoury nations over the years. And that came back to bite us.
Conservative instinct is that people should be self sufficient - its not the states role to pay their bills. But this shock was so sudden and the prospect of millions potentially unable to pay to heat their homes, and possibly freezing and dying as a result, meant that something had to be done.
With mortgages - conservative instinct is that its up to the customer to manage their affairs. If the rates go up and the mortgage payment increases thats on those who borrowed the money. I have a fair amount of sympathy with that view. But not all those in trouble will be idiots who just overstretched and borrowed the maximum because they could. There will be difficulties for people. But should the government step in? Should mine and your tax money, or more government borrowing, be used for other peoples mortgages? I'm not sure.1 -
Like the Bank of England bloke said, as a nation we need to accept that we are poorer. There's no nice way of doing that.turbotubbs said:
The government intervened with furlough when it forced businesses to close. There was no alternative - you can't stop someone earning money and not compensate.RochdalePioneers said:That "everything wrong is Starmer's fault, we think everything is getting better, vote Tory" plan in full:
"Is the Government going to do anything to help people who are facing increases in their mortgage rates? "
Sunak: "No"
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1670676223096127488
With the energy crisis a lot of chickens came home to roost. Transitioning to green energy (a good thing) is not yet cheaper than fossil fuels (for the most part). And we have put ourselves in hoc to some unsavoury nations over the years. And that came back to bite us.
Conservative instinct is that people should be self sufficient - its not the states role to pay their bills. But this shock was so sudden and the prospect of millions potentially unable to pay to heat their homes, and possibly freezing and dying as a result, meant that something had to be done.
With mortgages - conservative instinct is that its up to the customer to manage their affairs. If the rates go up and the mortgage payment increases thats on those who borrowed the money. I have a fair amount of sympathy with that view. But not all those in trouble will be idiots who just overstretched and borrowed the maximum because they could. There will be difficulties for people. But should the government step in? Should mine and your tax money, or more government borrowing, be used for other peoples mortgages? I'm not sure.
The energy bailouts of winter 2022/3 were the last gasp of pretending that the government could just chuck money at us all without side effects. It made for a more comfortable winter, presumably perked up the UK economy a bit (we avoided recession- yay!) and I suspect is feeding into the higher inflation we're seeing now (boo!).0 -
If Corbyn was elected PM in 2019 we might now have a UK government actively supporting Putin and Hamas.OnlyLivingBoy said:
"But Corbyn" is the last excuse that those who helped to put Johnson into power have left, the last fig leaf of political respectibility to cover their embarrassment for enabling this amoral crook and his shambolic mess of a government. It is true that Corbyn was an awful leader, and it was a disgrace that Labour chose him, but he is still a better human being than Johnson is, and would have been completely contained by Labour moderates in government. The only people for whom Johnson was the better choice are the various Tory-adjacent grifters who emerged from the Covid crisis with a new house in the Cotswolds and arguably the Labour Party who now have the opportunity to gain a majority under a moderate leader rather than face a divisive Corbyn administration.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.
Corbyn may also never have even imposed lockdowns or rolled out the vaccines effectively for Covid, his brother is a noted lockdown and vaccine sceptic1 -
Indeed. It was a difficult time and the Government took many decisions when they had inadequate information and all their options would have hard consequences. Despite my loathing of Johnson, I'm inclined to cut him some slack for that.turbotubbs said:
Its fine to change your mind. Facts change, intelligent people change what they think.RochdalePioneers said:
I respect anyone considering a position and changing their mind. I might* have done a few of those myself...CorrectHorseBat said:I am not trolling and everyone who knows me here would agree.
I supported lockdowns at the time. I was wrong, I have changed my mind. Please allow me some respect for being open about it. So many aren’t.
Lockdown was inevitable. You cannot say to people as a virus starts killing large numbers of people that they should ignore it and carry on as normal. The NHS on a repeated basis came perilously close to being completely overwhelmed - so without lockdown we would have had the nightingale "hospitals" manned by a few army medics as the dying were bussed in then directly cremated out the back.
When the government tried to get everyone to carry on there was the inevitable self-locking down, where people simply chose not to go out and spend their money in Starbucks as ordered. That would have happened on a massive scale had lockdown not happened.
In this kind of situation you can control the process, or leave it uncontrolled. Control is always the best option.
But to say lockdowns were wrong is not about facts changing. There was no real alternative in March 2020. There could have been other approaches later in the year, but realistically without vaccines, opening society in our crowded islands was always going to be tough.
Someone on here (I think @kle4) said that if lockdowns worked, after we would say they weren't needed. Sadly this is becoming the narrative for too many people.7 -
Delivering Brexit was not 'a cult', it was what 17 million people and 52% of those who voted in 2016 (ie more than have ever voted Conservative or Labour since universal suffrage) voted forMonksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.0 -
Also, we're at the 'something must be done' point. What actually can or should be done without throwing huge amounts of money to half the population is another point.turbotubbs said:
With mortgages - conservative instinct is that its up to the customer to manage their affairs. If the rates go up and the mortgage payment increases thats on those who borrowed the money. I have a fair amount of sympathy with that view. But not all those in trouble will be idiots who just overstretched and borrowed the maximum because they could. There will be difficulties for people. But should the government step in? Should mine and your tax money, or more government borrowing, be used for other peoples mortgages? I'm not sure.RochdalePioneers said:That "everything wrong is Starmer's fault, we think everything is getting better, vote Tory" plan in full:
"Is the Government going to do anything to help people who are facing increases in their mortgage rates? "
Sunak: "No"
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/16706762230961274880 -
Sunak doing a four week GE campaign is going to be quite a thing. He makes May look relaxed and spontaneous!
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1670669224136650752?s=46&t=rw5lNVUgmRPVyKpxfV_pPQ2 -
Latest poll on Spain sees a slight narrowing of the PP lead to 9% largely due to PSOE gaining at the expense of their coalition partners Sumar.1
-
I think there is a strong possibility Starmer fails to obtain a majority in England and that the Conservatives and the LDs combined have more seats than Labour there even if Labour win most seats.
UK wide though I think Labour gains from the SNP plus Welsh Labour MPs should see him gain a narrow UK majority0 -
There were certainly cultish elements to it: Boris as the messiah, for example, and the belief in his ability to perform miracles.HYUFD said:
Delivering Brexit was not 'a cult', it was what 17 million people and 52% of those who voted in 2016 (ie more than have ever voted Conservative or Labour since universal suffrage) voted forMonksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.1 -
Good morning, sir. Hmmm. Sensible dispassionate advice on this subject does seem to be lacking, with both sides arriving with axe-grinding machines in tow. @StillWaters' point about pathologising uncertainty was valid, but since the only alternative would be *not* pathologising uncertainty and the only way to do that would be to not interfere, that only leaves us with "leave things alone and see what happens". Which, come to think of it, may be the "sensible dispassionate advice" you seek...OldKingCole said:
No, what it means is it both teenagers and parents should be able to access sensible dispassionate advice.viewcode said:
I agree with your second para but it implies that teenagers should be allowed to experiment without committing irreversible acts. That would in turn imply that the parents should not be informed, not that they should, yes?StillWaters said:
It used to be calling a tomboy / going through “a phase”. Most grew up to be well adjusted adults and live as happy lives as anyone else.Foxy said:
I think too there clearly are a rising number of people, particularly youngsters, that identify as Trans. Quite why this is is unclear, but it may well be like the rising recognition of neurodivergence over the last few decades. Was it always there and under recognised previously, or a genuine rise due to factors as yet unknown?FF43 said:
Teenagers have a lot of hormones and it takes a while for the body to process them. I worry that in pathologising uncertainty we are storing up trouble for the future
And good morning, one, and all!
0 -
Corbyn would have been even worse than Boris, indeed actively dangerous, but, like Boris, he would have been ejected in fairly short order once ensconced in office.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn was elected PM in 2019 we might now have a UK government actively supporting Putin and Hamas.OnlyLivingBoy said:
"But Corbyn" is the last excuse that those who helped to put Johnson into power have left, the last fig leaf of political respectibility to cover their embarrassment for enabling this amoral crook and his shambolic mess of a government. It is true that Corbyn was an awful leader, and it was a disgrace that Labour chose him, but he is still a better human being than Johnson is, and would have been completely contained by Labour moderates in government. The only people for whom Johnson was the better choice are the various Tory-adjacent grifters who emerged from the Covid crisis with a new house in the Cotswolds and arguably the Labour Party who now have the opportunity to gain a majority under a moderate leader rather than face a divisive Corbyn administration.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.
Corbyn may also never have even imposed lockdowns or rolled out the vaccines effectively for Covid, his brother is a noted lockdown and vaccine sceptic3 -
HYUFD said:
I think there is a strong possibility Starmer fails to obtain a majority in England and that the Conservatives and the LDs combined have more seats than Labour there even if Labour win most seats.
UK wide though I think Labour gains from the SNP plus Welsh Labour MPs should see him gain a narrow UK majority
If you think the LibDems are likely to go into any sort of coalition or arrangement, with the Conservatives in the foreseeable future, then, in the praise, beloved of so many here, I have a bridge to sell you!HYUFD said:I think there is a strong possibility Starmer fails to obtain a majority in England and that the Conservatives and the LDs combined have more seats than Labour there even if Labour win most seats.
UK wide though I think Labour gains from the SNP plus Welsh Labour MPs should see him gain a narrow UK majority0 -
I don’t think you should judge him by his brother’s even more insane views.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn was elected PM in 2019 we might now have a UK government actively supporting Putin and Hamas.OnlyLivingBoy said:
"But Corbyn" is the last excuse that those who helped to put Johnson into power have left, the last fig leaf of political respectibility to cover their embarrassment for enabling this amoral crook and his shambolic mess of a government. It is true that Corbyn was an awful leader, and it was a disgrace that Labour chose him, but he is still a better human being than Johnson is, and would have been completely contained by Labour moderates in government. The only people for whom Johnson was the better choice are the various Tory-adjacent grifters who emerged from the Covid crisis with a new house in the Cotswolds and arguably the Labour Party who now have the opportunity to gain a majority under a moderate leader rather than face a divisive Corbyn administration.Monksfield said:
Fwiw I disagree on Corbyn. Would have been an utter shitshow of course, but Corbyn’s worst ideas would have been opposed by the Labour centrists. They would have provided a massive brake.JosiasJessop said:
That's all true.Monksfield said:
It isn’t all about how Johnson was an inveterate liar - and a tuppenny con artist to boot.DavidL said:
As I have said in another post I expect Labour to get a small majority. But this confected outrage about Boris is getting wearying. Everyone knew he was a liar. Repeatedly confirming it is pointless.Roger said:
Only an extreme Tory devotee would be generous enough to pen that.DavidL said:Does anybody really believe that Labour are on 48%? I don't.
The Tories had a bad week thanks to Boris, yet again. Hopefully the worst of that is finally over. So far we have had a police report, the Sue Gray report and the Privileges committee report all saying the same things in numbing detail. It's getting beyond dull. But maybe someone else should investigate so we can pretend to be outraged all over again.
Most voters I suspect would hang the lot of them without a second thought. Even twice if that's what it took!
It is that your party saw fit to foist him on the rest of us, whilst knowing all that.
You may not be wrong about the scale of the defeat, it’s the nature of the defeat that will be interesting. Rather like Labour in its red wall, you’ve taken your core vote for granted. You’re going to lose seats that would have been unthinkable 10 years ago.
But remember, Labour put Corbyn forward for two GEs. Someone who is (IMV) far worse than Johnson, and yet the Labour core went out to vote for him, even as he repelled the non-core. And kept him as leader even after he failed.
The exact opposite to what happened with Johnson, where most of the parliamentary party joined the cult. And those that didn’t were expelled.
Corbyn may also never have even imposed lockdowns or rolled out the vaccines effectively for Covid, his brother is a noted lockdown and vaccine sceptic
The risk with Corbyn would have been seeing lockdown and furlough as a great opportunity to nationalise everything and flog the best bits to his mates int he union movement.0 -
I would tend to agree.kamski said:
Surely with hindsight we can point to a lot of things that they could have done much better?FF43 said:
I agree. I don't think the governments had a choice but to lockdown at the points when they dId. They could have locked down smarter, ie earlier, to control the exponential curves in a less damaging way. They could also have made better trade offs between the need to control the disease and avoid isolation, particularly for children, at least for the second and subsequent lockdowns. They could also have managed their financial support programmes better.RochdalePioneers said:
I respect anyone considering a position and changing their mind. I might* have done a few of those myself...CorrectHorseBat said:I am not trolling and everyone who knows me here would agree.
I supported lockdowns at the time. I was wrong, I have changed my mind. Please allow me some respect for being open about it. So many aren’t.
Lockdown was inevitable. You cannot say to people as a virus starts killing large numbers of people that they should ignore it and carry on as normal. The NHS on a repeated basis came perilously close to being completely overwhelmed - so without lockdown we would have had the nightingale "hospitals" manned by a few army medics as the dying were bussed in then directly cremated out the back.
When the government tried to get everyone to carry on there was the inevitable self-locking down, where people simply chose not to go out and spend their money in Starbucks as ordered. That would have happened on a massive scale had lockdown not happened.
In this kind of situation you can control the process, or leave it uncontrolled. Control is always the best option.
But on the whole they dId what they had to do.
There were some really extreme measures in place - rules against leaving your house for example were inappropriate for the goal of flattening the curve, and far too draconian I think.
Well, I would, having bored for Britain on the subject between Lockdown's one and two about "finding the low hanging fruit" that gave the most reduction in spread for the least damage elsewhere, as it's logically impossible for each and every measure to have identical cost/benefit tradeoffs.
They didn't, sadly.
I personally believe that stay-at-home orders on top of the other restrictions had minimal effects. It could be argued that we were in such a bad place at the time that every iota or reduction was necessary, and I'd listen to such arguments, but the counter to that is to impose the other restrictions a few days earlier.
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