Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Sunak needs to sack Braverman – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited May 2023 in General
Sunak needs to sack Braverman – politicalbetting.com

The arrangement, which the Home Secretary sought after being caught speeding last summer, would have meant she would not have to attend an in-person course with other motorists, or an online one where her name and face would be visible to other participants 2/4

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    Cruella out.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    FPT
    ydoethur said:

    If you have written a post in admiration of Spielman, Cummings, Gibb or Freedman I'm coming up to Manchester to force feed you a pineapple pizza while wearing a Max Verstappen face mask.

    All I am going to say is I am glad I live in Sheffield.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,905
    edited May 2023
    Second, like... urm... that guy.

    Edit: third.
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,440
    'We define corruption as the abuse of entrusted power for private gain. Corruption erodes trust, weakens democracy, hampers economic development and further exacerbates inequality, poverty, social division and the environmental crisis.'

    https://www.transparency.org/en/what-is-corruption#:~:text=We define corruption as the,division and the environmental crisis.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    If you have written a post in admiration of Spielman, Cummings, Gibb or Freedman I'm coming up to Manchester to force feed you a pineapple pizza while wearing a Max Verstappen face mask.

    All I am going to say is I am glad I live in Sheffield.
    Sheffield is easier to get to than Manchester...
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,135
    Things are not developing to Sunak's advantage.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    edited May 2023
    On topic, that headline is wrong.

    As with Spielman or Cummings (or indeed Gibb and Freedman) the issue is not that she needs sacking.

    The issue is, as the last paragraph notes, what the hell does it say about the boss's judgement that people so manifestly useless were appointed in the first place?
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,135
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, that headline is wrong.

    As with Spielman or Cummings (or indeed Gibb and Freedman) the issue is not that she needs sacking.

    The issue is, as the last paragraph notes, what the hell does it say about the boss's judgement that people so manifestly useless were appointed in the first place?

    What does it tell us about power in the Conservative Party that he clearly had to do so?
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,761
    "Form a square around the Suellaster"
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,048
    Just lifting my jaw off the floor.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    Congratulations to the Forest fans. I know there are 2 or 3 on here.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    edited May 2023
    Oh. And Braverman can't be sacked easily.
    She'll be a nightmare on the backbenches. (Not that that stopped her being semi-independent anyways).
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,127
     
    carnforth said:
    Heavens. Oesophageal cancer. Was he a heavy smoker? Somehow I think so

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    edited May 2023
    mwadams said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, that headline is wrong.

    As with Spielman or Cummings (or indeed Gibb and Freedman) the issue is not that she needs sacking.

    The issue is, as the last paragraph notes, what the hell does it say about the boss's judgement that people so manifestly useless were appointed in the first place?

    What does it tell us about power in the Conservative Party that he clearly had to do so?
    Nothing good.

    But he even appointed people he *didn't* need to politically. Raab. Williamson. Zahawi.

    He's clearly not a good judge of talent.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,048
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited May 2023

    'We define corruption as the abuse of entrusted power for private gain. Corruption erodes trust, weakens democracy, hampers economic development and further exacerbates inequality, poverty, social division and the environmental crisis.'

    https://www.transparency.org/en/what-is-corruption#:~:text=We define corruption as the,division and the environmental crisis.

    I think Martin Amis a great writer at times.

    On the above post by Transparency International, I think this needs a follow-up of thirty years of cuttings from Private Eye about the revolving door between former politicians and nice-earning Private Monopolies. That is the kind of reason we are much further down the list than some of our near neighbours.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    Well that likely sinks Braverman's Cabinet place and hopes of becoming Leader of the Opposition if Sunak loses the next general election.

    Sunak does need to take heed of her message of reducing crossings across the Channel though if he is to stem losses in the redwall and Tory marginal seats which voted Leave
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,161
    geoffw said:

     

    carnforth said:
    Heavens. Oesophageal cancer. Was he a heavy smoker? Somehow I think so

    Yes, but spirits can do it too. And heartburn. Also drinking too much tea too hot: Japan has quite high rates.

    Stick to beer and wine, don't smoke, get heartburn treated properly, and let your hot drinks cool a little.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Suella did what Arsenal could not, and got 3 points.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,195

    Cruella out.

    It would take a braver man!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    HYUFD said:

    Well that likely sinks Braverman's Cabinet place and hopes of becoming Leader of the Opposition if Sunak loses the next general election.

    That's the first good news about the Tory leadership I've heard since Johnson was shoved aside in 2016.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    At least two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code:

    5.1 Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil Service, and not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code...

    7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited May 2023
    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    I feel like this is not quite a sackable offence for Braverman.

    But Sunak might sack her anyway.
    The fact that is leaked now is a clue that he might.
    Although the risk of his being ousted would increase significantly if he did.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    edited May 2023
    Amis was a heavy smoker.
    He went the same way as Chris Hitchens, it seems.

    Notable that two of Britain’s most prominent intellectuals of the 80s/90s both died of throat cancer, in the USA; Hitchens in Texas, Amis in Florida.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,788
    Oh dear.

    Sue-Ellen's career prospects seem to be about as bright as Pip Schofield's...
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,127
    HYUFD said:

    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/

    Because the pork barrel is empty

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543

    I feel like this is not quite a sackable offence for Braverman.

    But Sunak might sack her anyway.
    The fact that is leaked now is a clue that he might.
    Although the risk of his being ousted would increase significantly if he did.

    Two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code? (Assuming the Times story stands up)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/

    Because the pork barrel is empty

    A rasher statement has rarely been made.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    At least two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code:

    5.1 Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil Service, and not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code...

    7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.

    5.1 she didn’t. She just asked if it was possible for them to do it or not, and they explained they couldn’t, against their rules and ministerial code, so it stopped there.

    7.1 and it didn’t, because she didn’t get a 1:1, she simply asked if such a thing was possible, and was told no.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,961
    edited May 2023
    Amis was a heavy smoker, but still shocking news. Someone one always thought of as of the younger generation.
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    How depressing.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    edited May 2023

    I feel like this is not quite a sackable offence for Braverman.

    But Sunak might sack her anyway.
    The fact that is leaked now is a clue that he might.
    Although the risk of his being ousted would increase significantly if he did.

    Two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code? (Assuming the Times story stands up)
    I can see wiggle room.
    I’m no Braverman fan, not at all, I think she’s a dangerous fruitcake, but this is a pretty minor lapse.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,127
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/

    Because the pork barrel is empty

    A rasher statement has rarely been made.
    by an oink I must confess

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Cruella out.

    If we want to talk up scandal, this first is probably one of the sleaziest in history.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094

    At least two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code:

    5.1 Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil Service, and not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code...

    7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.

    5.1 she didn’t. She just asked if it was possible for them to do it or not, and they explained they couldn’t, against their rules and ministerial code, so it stopped there.

    7.1 and it didn’t, because she didn’t get a 1:1, she simply asked if such a thing was possible, and was told no.
    Merely asking such a very stupid question is in itself a possible way of bringing the CS into politics. She was asking them if it was possible for something to be arranged for political reasons.

    And incidentally as a lawyer herself although apparently not a very good one, surely she should have known the answer would be 'no?'
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,343
    Lest we forget...

    Just think it through from my perspective. You are the prime minister, with a majority of 18, a party that is still harking back to a golden age that never was, and is now invented. You have three rightwing members of the Cabinet who actually resign. What happens in the parliamentary party?

    I could bring in other people. But where do you think most of this poison is coming from? From the dispossessed and the never-possessed. You can think of ex-ministers who are going around causing all sorts of trouble.

    We don't want another three more of the bastards out there. What's Lyndon Johnson's maxim?


    And a Suella who doesn't have to compromise with reality over the next 18 months, who wipes the slate clean by winning in Fareham in 2024 (likely, unfortunately), might be quite handily placed for a leadership election post-Sunak.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,088

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration ...

    It will be a sad day when a leading politician can't exploit their office for personal advantage.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,961
    Braverman should have been sacked for her speech last week, rather than this episode.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,788
    Sue-Ellen's fall could well be good news for Kemi in next years Tory leadership contest...
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,088
    Perhaps Sunak now has an opportunity to demonstrate his strength and judgment, by sacking her and then reappointing her next week.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,127
    The Braverman story is not even an inverted pyramid of puffle
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094

    Lest we forget...

    Just think it through from my perspective. You are the prime minister, with a majority of 18, a party that is still harking back to a golden age that never was, and is now invented. You have three rightwing members of the Cabinet who actually resign. What happens in the parliamentary party?

    I could bring in other people. But where do you think most of this poison is coming from? From the dispossessed and the never-possessed. You can think of ex-ministers who are going around causing all sorts of trouble.

    We don't want another three more of the bastards out there. What's Lyndon Johnson's maxim?


    And a Suella who doesn't have to compromise with reality over the next 18 months, who wipes the slate clean by winning in Fareham in 2024 (likely, unfortunately), might be quite handily placed for a leadership election post-Sunak.

    He has a majority of 76, surely?
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    Chris said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration ...

    It will be a sad day when a leading politician can't exploit their office for personal advantage.
    One of the prettiest, one of the most distinguished politicians ever to rise to high office in this country - or not...
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,000
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/

    Because the pork barrel is empty

    A rasher statement has rarely been made.
    He did have a streaky record tbf (just to add some perSpecktive).

  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,325
    Has she been sacked yet ?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    Coupon government elected in 1918.

    Salisbury's governments from 1885-92 and 1895-1902 perhaps.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,834

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    80 people who swore fealty to BoZo.

    It's a wonder they haven't burned the place down
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,761
    ydoethur said:

    Lest we forget...

    Just think it through from my perspective. You are the prime minister, with a majority of 18, a party that is still harking back to a golden age that never was, and is now invented. You have three rightwing members of the Cabinet who actually resign. What happens in the parliamentary party?

    I could bring in other people. But where do you think most of this poison is coming from? From the dispossessed and the never-possessed. You can think of ex-ministers who are going around causing all sorts of trouble.

    We don't want another three more of the bastards out there. What's Lyndon Johnson's maxim?


    And a Suella who doesn't have to compromise with reality over the next 18 months, who wipes the slate clean by winning in Fareham in 2024 (likely, unfortunately), might be quite handily placed for a leadership election post-Sunak.

    He has a majority of 76, surely?
    64

    https://members.parliament.uk/parties/commons
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I took it that MoonRabbit was embracing irony somewhat.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    🔴Suella Braverman is facing questions over claims she asked civil servants for help in responding to a speeding fine

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1660011311562997761

    Presumably she wants help from the leftie lawyers and woke civil service
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I’m merely standing on the side of fair play and justice, my sword of truth cutting through the spin from biased parties. If she did bully her way to a 1:1 I would call it wrong - but it’s merely enquiring if it’s possible due to her celebrity status, being told no it’s not, so going along with the reply and not getting it. She got no special treatment at all from this, and you call it a scandal. In fact this is a big win for Suella, coming across as a dogged and inventive barrister, fighting her corner by pushing to the limits - someone everyone would want on their side.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited May 2023
    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-term. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate..
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    ydoethur said:

    Lest we forget...

    Just think it through from my perspective. You are the prime minister, with a majority of 18, a party that is still harking back to a golden age that never was, and is now invented. You have three rightwing members of the Cabinet who actually resign. What happens in the parliamentary party?

    I could bring in other people. But where do you think most of this poison is coming from? From the dispossessed and the never-possessed. You can think of ex-ministers who are going around causing all sorts of trouble.

    We don't want another three more of the bastards out there. What's Lyndon Johnson's maxim?


    And a Suella who doesn't have to compromise with reality over the next 18 months, who wipes the slate clean by winning in Fareham in 2024 (likely, unfortunately), might be quite handily placed for a leadership election post-Sunak.

    He has a majority of 76, surely?
    Was the quote from Major?
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,788
    edited May 2023

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    The 80 seat majority was really a fluke to be honest.

    All the stars aligned for Con (Boris was still popular outside London, Jezza was toxic after he supported Russia during the Sailsbury attacks not to mention all the antisemitism at the time and Get Brexit Done was a powerful message after the 2017-2019 Parliament refused to implement any deal...)

    But the warning signs have been there for Con since 2016 honestly...
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,000
    Chris said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration ...

    It will be a sad day when a leading politician can't exploit their office for personal advantage.
    Just wait for this to be turned back onto the ‘activist civil servants undermining minister’ thread.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I took it that MoonRabbit was embracing irony somewhat.
    Mibbe aye mibbe naw. It's hard to tell with that one.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,834

    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-run. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate.

    @georgeeaton

    Michael Gove at the NatCon conference four days ago: “I can’t think of a single Conservative who reminds me of Chris Huhne.”
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,088

    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I’m merely standing on the side of fair play and justice, my sword of truth cutting through the spin from biased parties. ...
    Surely you mean cutting out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,195

    At least two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code:

    5.1 Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil Service, and not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code...

    7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.

    "The Ministerial Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules."
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,788
    Scott_xP said:

    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-run. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate.

    @georgeeaton

    Michael Gove at the NatCon conference four days ago: “I can’t think of a single Conservative who reminds me of Chris Huhne.”
    The Govester's been plotting again... 🕸
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    GIN1138 said:

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    The 80 seat majority was really a fluke to be honest.

    All the stars aligned for Con (Boris was still popular outside London, Jezza was toxic after he supported Russia during the Sailsbury attacks not to mention all the antisemitism at the time and Get Brexit Done was a powerful message after the 2017-2019 Parliament refused to implement any deal...)

    But the warning signs have been there for Con since 2016 honestly...
    I think in reality the Tories have been on a very slow transition to being out of power since 2016 as you say, really it all started when Cameron walked away and the Tory Party has been in difficulty ever since.

    Labour's idiotic membership have a lot to answer for as they really should have been in power for years at this point. The fact they are not says a lot.

    Danny Finkelstein has been saying for years that the Tories are pursuing a policy of eventual losing - and it seem like we are not headed for that point. I maintain that in 2019 Labour lost, the Tories did not win by being popular or even liked at all. It was Corbyn's utter toxicity that did it.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited May 2023

    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I took it that MoonRabbit was embracing irony somewhat.
    No. I’m with Gardenwalker, this is getting bigged up too much because she is party political enemy number 1. In terms of scandal, sleaze and corruption, it’s not even in the same pond as the dodgy covid contracts for example, loans for BBC chairmanships is far worse than this too, bullying civil servants by throwing fruit at them is worse than this too etc etc

    The dodgy UK incomes destroying FTA’s this government is signing is proper scandal, as is the sewage being pumped into rivers and coastlines.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    GIN1138 said:

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    The 80 seat majority was really a fluke to be honest.

    All the stars aligned for Con (Boris was still popular outside London, Jezza was toxic after he supported Russia during the Sailsbury attacks not to mention all the antisemitism at the time and Get Brexit Done was a powerful message after the 2017-2019 Parliament refused to implement any deal...)

    But the warning signs have been there for Con since 2016 honestly...
    I think in reality the Tories have been on a very slow transition to being out of power since 2016 as you say, really it all started when Cameron walked away and the Tory Party has been in difficulty ever since.

    Labour's idiotic membership have a lot to answer for as they really should have been in power for years at this point. The fact they are not says a lot.

    Danny Finkelstein has been saying for years that the Tories are pursuing a policy of eventual losing - and it seem like we are not headed for that point. I maintain that in 2019 Labour lost, the Tories did not win by being popular or even liked at all. It was Corbyn's utter toxicity that did it.
    Did you support Corbyn until quite late on?
    If so, are you calling yourself an idiot?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    geoffw said:

    The Braverman story is not even an inverted pyramid of puffle

    It's win-win for Labour whether she goes or stays.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    The 80 seat majority was really a fluke to be honest.

    All the stars aligned for Con (Boris was still popular outside London, Jezza was toxic after he supported Russia during the Sailsbury attacks not to mention all the antisemitism at the time and Get Brexit Done was a powerful message after the 2017-2019 Parliament refused to implement any deal...)

    But the warning signs have been there for Con since 2016 honestly...
    I think in reality the Tories have been on a very slow transition to being out of power since 2016 as you say, really it all started when Cameron walked away and the Tory Party has been in difficulty ever since.

    Labour's idiotic membership have a lot to answer for as they really should have been in power for years at this point. The fact they are not says a lot.

    Danny Finkelstein has been saying for years that the Tories are pursuing a policy of eventual losing - and it seem like we are not headed for that point. I maintain that in 2019 Labour lost, the Tories did not win by being popular or even liked at all. It was Corbyn's utter toxicity that did it.
    Did you support Corbyn until quite late on?
    If so, are you calling yourself an idiot?
    Yes.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,788
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-run. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate.

    @georgeeaton

    Michael Gove at the NatCon conference four days ago: “I can’t think of a single Conservative who reminds me of Chris Huhne.”
    The Govester's been plotting again... 🕸
    Gove was an early Kemi backer in the last Tory leadership contest of course... ;)
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,900

    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-term. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate..

    At least Huhne had the good sense to retire from public life.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,127

    geoffw said:

    The Braverman story is not even an inverted pyramid of puffle

    It's win-win for Labour whether she goes or stays.
    Perhaps, but a different kind of win in the two cases

  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited May 2023
    I’m surprised she drives herself.

    I assumed the HS would have pretty tight security - presumably she has her own police driver?

    Or did the points pre-date her appointment as hs?
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,474
    edited May 2023
    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    At this point it's not a question of whether she broke the rules. We all know she will have done.

    Keir Starmer really has got to clean up public life, it's an all time low.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,430
    Good news for Sunak. He can give her an ultimatum to apologise then sack her, like Starmer sacked first Long-Bailey and eventually Corbyn. It’s a purge opportunity, the start of the end of the Nat-Cs.

    If he doesn’t he’s frit.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,127

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncowded highway.)

    That might be a good excuse in India. But in the USofA …

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,895
    Oh my god
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,127

    Oh my god

    I'm listening

  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,430
    edited May 2023

    At this point it's not a question of whether she broke the rules. We all know she will have done.

    Keir Starmer really has got to clean up public life, it's an all time low.

    Chris Huhne gives Starmer a perfect basis to press this one home. I know the cases aren’t exactly comparable, but it creates some sort of precedent.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    TimS said:

    Good news for Sunak. He can give her an ultimatum to apologise then sack her, like Starmer sacked first Long-Bailey and eventually Corbyn. It’s a purge opportunity, the start of the end of the Nat-Cs.

    If he doesn’t he’s frit.

    Sacking her leaves her pissing into the tent.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,161
    edited May 2023

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to begin with? Does she have points already, is the question...
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,474
    BenPointer said: "The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with."

    I understand that, and perhaps should have said so. But I am wondering whether -- in addition -- she was driving dangerously for that place and time.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    TimS said:

    At this point it's not a question of whether she broke the rules. We all know she will have done.

    Keir Starmer really has got to clean up public life, it's an all time low.

    Chris Huhne gives Starmer a perfect basis to press this one home. I know the cases aren’t exactly comparable, but it creates some sort of precedent.
    Tbf Huhne's offence was much more serious: perverting the course of justice. But the parallels are hard to avoid.

    PS Who was the Director of Public Prosecutions who pushed through Huhne's prosecution - the name escapes me...
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/20/major-tory-donor-investigated-over-and-money-laundering-allegations

    Quite apart from whether there has been criminal activity or now, why are foreign-domiciled donors allowed to contribute huge sums of money to UK political parties?

    I can't believe there are people who are comfortable with this who are also against people who actually live and work in this country not being able to vote.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Is asking the question if a one on one is possible or not trying to influence? Really?

    Do you have any real evidence of trying to influence? Like trying to pressure officials into making it happen?
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited May 2023
    carnforth said:

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to being with? Does she have points already, is the question...
    Why was she even driving, is my question?

    Unless the offence was more than ~9 months ago, before she became hs?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543

    BenPointer said: "The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with."

    I understand that, and perhaps should have said so. But I am wondering whether -- in addition -- she was driving dangerously for that place and time.

    Were that the case, she probably would not have been offered the speed awareness course as an alternative.

    I suspect it's a simple speeding offence... followed by a simple coercion attempt.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    TimS said:

    Good news for Sunak. He can give her an ultimatum to apologise then sack her, like Starmer sacked first Long-Bailey and eventually Corbyn. It’s a purge opportunity, the start of the end of the Nat-Cs.

    If he doesn’t he’s frit.

    Sacking her leaves her pissing into the tent.
    Ladies never do that.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,088

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Is asking the question if a one on one is possible or not trying to influence? Really?

    Do you have any real evidence of trying to influence? Like trying to pressure officials into making it happen?
    These people are so unfair. It was just the same with Boris Johnson and Richard Sharp. I mean, is asking the question "How much do you want the job?" really the same as soliciting a bribe?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    carnforth said:

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to begin with? Does she have points already, is the question...
    If so, why not just take the course she was offered?
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,127
     
    ping said:

    carnforth said:

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to being with? Does she have points already, is the question...
    Why was she even driving, is my question?

    Unless the offence was more than ~9 months ago, before she became hs?
    She was AG before HS

  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,246

    TimS said:

    Good news for Sunak. He can give her an ultimatum to apologise then sack her, like Starmer sacked first Long-Bailey and eventually Corbyn. It’s a purge opportunity, the start of the end of the Nat-Cs.

    If he doesn’t he’s frit.

    Sacking her leaves her pissing into the tent.
    There are just people that piss, and those that don't.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,474
    As an American of a certain age, I am naturally curious to know how the Braverman incident compares to this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Is asking the question if a one on one is possible or not trying to influence? Really?

    Do you have any real evidence of trying to influence? Like trying to pressure officials into making it happen?
    You know damn well that asking this sort of thing of someone who works for you is improper.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    ping said:

    carnforth said:

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to being with? Does she have points already, is the question...
    Why was she even driving, is my question?

    Unless the offence was more than ~9 months ago, before she became hs?
    as I understand it, they are only allowed drivers when on official ministerial business. If they are on private business, or political business, they have to get their under their own steam.
This discussion has been closed.