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Sunak needs to sack Braverman – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited May 30 in General
Sunak needs to sack Braverman – politicalbetting.com

The arrangement, which the Home Secretary sought after being caught speeding last summer, would have meant she would not have to attend an in-person course with other motorists, or an online one where her name and face would be visible to other participants 2/4

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 111,919
    Cruella out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 111,919
    FPT
    ydoethur said:

    If you have written a post in admiration of Spielman, Cummings, Gibb or Freedman I'm coming up to Manchester to force feed you a pineapple pizza while wearing a Max Verstappen face mask.

    All I am going to say is I am glad I live in Sheffield.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,061
    edited May 20
    Second, like... urm... that guy.

    Edit: third.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,311
    'We define corruption as the abuse of entrusted power for private gain. Corruption erodes trust, weakens democracy, hampers economic development and further exacerbates inequality, poverty, social division and the environmental crisis.'

    https://www.transparency.org/en/what-is-corruption#:~:text=We define corruption as the,division and the environmental crisis.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317

    FPT

    ydoethur said:

    If you have written a post in admiration of Spielman, Cummings, Gibb or Freedman I'm coming up to Manchester to force feed you a pineapple pizza while wearing a Max Verstappen face mask.

    All I am going to say is I am glad I live in Sheffield.
    Sheffield is easier to get to than Manchester...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,715
    Things are not developing to Sunak's advantage.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317
    edited May 20
    On topic, that headline is wrong.

    As with Spielman or Cummings (or indeed Gibb and Freedman) the issue is not that she needs sacking.

    The issue is, as the last paragraph notes, what the hell does it say about the boss's judgement that people so manifestly useless were appointed in the first place?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,715
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, that headline is wrong.

    As with Spielman or Cummings (or indeed Gibb and Freedman) the issue is not that she needs sacking.

    The issue is, as the last paragraph notes, what the hell does it say about the boss's judgement that people so manifestly useless were appointed in the first place?

    What does it tell us about power in the Conservative Party that he clearly had to do so?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,477
    "Form a square around the Suellaster"
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,037
    Just lifting my jaw off the floor.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,344
    Congratulations to the Forest fans. I know there are 2 or 3 on here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,344
    edited May 20
    Oh. And Braverman can't be sacked easily.
    She'll be a nightmare on the backbenches. (Not that that stopped her being semi-independent anyways).
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 7,871
     
    carnforth said:
    Heavens. Oesophageal cancer. Was he a heavy smoker? Somehow I think so

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317
    edited May 20
    mwadams said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, that headline is wrong.

    As with Spielman or Cummings (or indeed Gibb and Freedman) the issue is not that she needs sacking.

    The issue is, as the last paragraph notes, what the hell does it say about the boss's judgement that people so manifestly useless were appointed in the first place?

    What does it tell us about power in the Conservative Party that he clearly had to do so?
    Nothing good.

    But he even appointed people he *didn't* need to politically. Raab. Williamson. Zahawi.

    He's clearly not a good judge of talent.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,418
    edited May 20

    'We define corruption as the abuse of entrusted power for private gain. Corruption erodes trust, weakens democracy, hampers economic development and further exacerbates inequality, poverty, social division and the environmental crisis.'

    https://www.transparency.org/en/what-is-corruption#:~:text=We define corruption as the,division and the environmental crisis.

    I think Martin Amis a great writer at times.

    On the above post by Transparency International, I think this needs a follow-up of thirty years of cuttings from Private Eye about the revolving door between former politicians and nice-earning Private Monopolies. That is the kind of reason we are much further down the list than some of our near neighbours.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 115,256
    Well that likely sinks Braverman's Cabinet place and hopes of becoming Leader of the Opposition if Sunak loses the next general election.

    Sunak does need to take heed of her message of reducing crossings across the Channel though if he is to stem losses in the redwall and Tory marginal seats which voted Leave
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 2,780
    geoffw said:

     

    carnforth said:
    Heavens. Oesophageal cancer. Was he a heavy smoker? Somehow I think so

    Yes, but spirits can do it too. And heartburn. Also drinking too much tea too hot: Japan has quite high rates.

    Stick to beer and wine, don't smoke, get heartburn treated properly, and let your hot drinks cool a little.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 11,177
    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Suella did what Arsenal could not, and got 3 points.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 115,256
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 47,644

    Cruella out.

    It would take a braver man!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317
    HYUFD said:

    Well that likely sinks Braverman's Cabinet place and hopes of becoming Leader of the Opposition if Sunak loses the next general election.

    That's the first good news about the Tory leadership I've heard since Johnson was shoved aside in 2016.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201
    At least two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code:

    5.1 Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil Service, and not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code...

    7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 115,256
    edited May 20
    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,351
    I feel like this is not quite a sackable offence for Braverman.

    But Sunak might sack her anyway.
    The fact that is leaked now is a clue that he might.
    Although the risk of his being ousted would increase significantly if he did.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,351
    edited May 20
    Amis was a heavy smoker.
    He went the same way as Chris Hitchens, it seems.

    Notable that two of Britain’s most prominent intellectuals of the 80s/90s both died of throat cancer, in the USA; Hitchens in Texas, Amis in Florida.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,406
    Oh dear.

    Sue-Ellen's career prospects seem to be about as bright as Pip Schofield's...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 7,871
    HYUFD said:

    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/

    Because the pork barrel is empty

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201

    I feel like this is not quite a sackable offence for Braverman.

    But Sunak might sack her anyway.
    The fact that is leaked now is a clue that he might.
    Although the risk of his being ousted would increase significantly if he did.

    Two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code? (Assuming the Times story stands up)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317
    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/

    Because the pork barrel is empty

    A rasher statement has rarely been made.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 11,177

    At least two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code:

    5.1 Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil Service, and not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code...

    7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.

    5.1 she didn’t. She just asked if it was possible for them to do it or not, and they explained they couldn’t, against their rules and ministerial code, so it stopped there.

    7.1 and it didn’t, because she didn’t get a 1:1, she simply asked if such a thing was possible, and was told no.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,753
    edited May 20
    Amis was a heavy smoker, but still shocking news. Someone one always thought of as of the younger generation.
  • pingping Posts: 3,723
    How depressing.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,351
    edited May 20

    I feel like this is not quite a sackable offence for Braverman.

    But Sunak might sack her anyway.
    The fact that is leaked now is a clue that he might.
    Although the risk of his being ousted would increase significantly if he did.

    Two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code? (Assuming the Times story stands up)
    I can see wiggle room.
    I’m no Braverman fan, not at all, I think she’s a dangerous fruitcake, but this is a pretty minor lapse.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 7,871
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/

    Because the pork barrel is empty

    A rasher statement has rarely been made.
    by an oink I must confess

  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 11,177

    Cruella out.

    If we want to talk up scandal, this first is probably one of the sleaziest in history.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317

    At least two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code:

    5.1 Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil Service, and not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code...

    7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.

    5.1 she didn’t. She just asked if it was possible for them to do it or not, and they explained they couldn’t, against their rules and ministerial code, so it stopped there.

    7.1 and it didn’t, because she didn’t get a 1:1, she simply asked if such a thing was possible, and was told no.
    Merely asking such a very stupid question is in itself a possible way of bringing the CS into politics. She was asking them if it was possible for something to be arranged for political reasons.

    And incidentally as a lawyer herself although apparently not a very good one, surely she should have known the answer would be 'no?'
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 12,788
    Lest we forget...

    Just think it through from my perspective. You are the prime minister, with a majority of 18, a party that is still harking back to a golden age that never was, and is now invented. You have three rightwing members of the Cabinet who actually resign. What happens in the parliamentary party?

    I could bring in other people. But where do you think most of this poison is coming from? From the dispossessed and the never-possessed. You can think of ex-ministers who are going around causing all sorts of trouble.

    We don't want another three more of the bastards out there. What's Lyndon Johnson's maxim?


    And a Suella who doesn't have to compromise with reality over the next 18 months, who wipes the slate clean by winning in Fareham in 2024 (likely, unfortunately), might be quite handily placed for a leadership election post-Sunak.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 10,690

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration ...

    It will be a sad day when a leading politician can't exploit their office for personal advantage.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,753
    Braverman should have been sacked for her speech last week, rather than this episode.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,406
    Sue-Ellen's fall could well be good news for Kemi in next years Tory leadership contest...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 10,690
    Perhaps Sunak now has an opportunity to demonstrate his strength and judgment, by sacking her and then reappointing her next week.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 7,871
    The Braverman story is not even an inverted pyramid of puffle
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317

    Lest we forget...

    Just think it through from my perspective. You are the prime minister, with a majority of 18, a party that is still harking back to a golden age that never was, and is now invented. You have three rightwing members of the Cabinet who actually resign. What happens in the parliamentary party?

    I could bring in other people. But where do you think most of this poison is coming from? From the dispossessed and the never-possessed. You can think of ex-ministers who are going around causing all sorts of trouble.

    We don't want another three more of the bastards out there. What's Lyndon Johnson's maxim?


    And a Suella who doesn't have to compromise with reality over the next 18 months, who wipes the slate clean by winning in Fareham in 2024 (likely, unfortunately), might be quite handily placed for a leadership election post-Sunak.

    He has a majority of 76, surely?
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317
    Chris said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration ...

    It will be a sad day when a leading politician can't exploit their office for personal advantage.
    One of the prettiest, one of the most distinguished politicians ever to rise to high office in this country - or not...
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 2,734
    ydoethur said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Richard Bacon to stand down as Conservative MP for South Norfolk at the next general election

    https://conservativehome.com/2023/05/20/i-have-concluded-that-its-time-for-a-fresh-face-bacon-stands-down-in-south-norfolk/

    Because the pork barrel is empty

    A rasher statement has rarely been made.
    He did have a streaky record tbf (just to add some perSpecktive).

  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,144
    Has she been sacked yet ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    Coupon government elected in 1918.

    Salisbury's governments from 1885-92 and 1895-1902 perhaps.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 31,705

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    80 people who swore fealty to BoZo.

    It's a wonder they haven't burned the place down
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,477
    ydoethur said:

    Lest we forget...

    Just think it through from my perspective. You are the prime minister, with a majority of 18, a party that is still harking back to a golden age that never was, and is now invented. You have three rightwing members of the Cabinet who actually resign. What happens in the parliamentary party?

    I could bring in other people. But where do you think most of this poison is coming from? From the dispossessed and the never-possessed. You can think of ex-ministers who are going around causing all sorts of trouble.

    We don't want another three more of the bastards out there. What's Lyndon Johnson's maxim?


    And a Suella who doesn't have to compromise with reality over the next 18 months, who wipes the slate clean by winning in Fareham in 2024 (likely, unfortunately), might be quite handily placed for a leadership election post-Sunak.

    He has a majority of 76, surely?
    64

    https://members.parliament.uk/parties/commons
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201
    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I took it that MoonRabbit was embracing irony somewhat.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    🔴Suella Braverman is facing questions over claims she asked civil servants for help in responding to a speeding fine

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1660011311562997761

    Presumably she wants help from the leftie lawyers and woke civil service
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 11,177
    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I’m merely standing on the side of fair play and justice, my sword of truth cutting through the spin from biased parties. If she did bully her way to a 1:1 I would call it wrong - but it’s merely enquiring if it’s possible due to her celebrity status, being told no it’s not, so going along with the reply and not getting it. She got no special treatment at all from this, and you call it a scandal. In fact this is a big win for Suella, coming across as a dogged and inventive barrister, fighting her corner by pushing to the limits - someone everyone would want on their side.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,418
    edited May 20
    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-term. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201
    ydoethur said:

    Lest we forget...

    Just think it through from my perspective. You are the prime minister, with a majority of 18, a party that is still harking back to a golden age that never was, and is now invented. You have three rightwing members of the Cabinet who actually resign. What happens in the parliamentary party?

    I could bring in other people. But where do you think most of this poison is coming from? From the dispossessed and the never-possessed. You can think of ex-ministers who are going around causing all sorts of trouble.

    We don't want another three more of the bastards out there. What's Lyndon Johnson's maxim?


    And a Suella who doesn't have to compromise with reality over the next 18 months, who wipes the slate clean by winning in Fareham in 2024 (likely, unfortunately), might be quite handily placed for a leadership election post-Sunak.

    He has a majority of 76, surely?
    Was the quote from Major?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,406
    edited May 20

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    The 80 seat majority was really a fluke to be honest.

    All the stars aligned for Con (Boris was still popular outside London, Jezza was toxic after he supported Russia during the Sailsbury attacks not to mention all the antisemitism at the time and Get Brexit Done was a powerful message after the 2017-2019 Parliament refused to implement any deal...)

    But the warning signs have been there for Con since 2016 honestly...
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 2,734
    Chris said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration ...

    It will be a sad day when a leading politician can't exploit their office for personal advantage.
    Just wait for this to be turned back onto the ‘activist civil servants undermining minister’ thread.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I took it that MoonRabbit was embracing irony somewhat.
    Mibbe aye mibbe naw. It's hard to tell with that one.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 31,705

    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-run. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate.

    @georgeeaton

    Michael Gove at the NatCon conference four days ago: “I can’t think of a single Conservative who reminds me of Chris Huhne.”
  • ChrisChris Posts: 10,690

    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I’m merely standing on the side of fair play and justice, my sword of truth cutting through the spin from biased parties. ...
    Surely you mean cutting out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 47,644

    At least two clear breaches of the Ministerial Code:

    5.1 Ministers must uphold the political impartiality of the Civil Service, and not ask civil servants to act in any way which would conflict with the Civil Service Code...

    7.1 Ministers must ensure that no conflict arises, or could reasonably be perceived to arise, between their public duties and their private interests, financial or otherwise.

    "The Ministerial Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules."
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,406
    Scott_xP said:

    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-run. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate.

    @georgeeaton

    Michael Gove at the NatCon conference four days ago: “I can’t think of a single Conservative who reminds me of Chris Huhne.”
    The Govester's been plotting again... 🕸
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    GIN1138 said:

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    The 80 seat majority was really a fluke to be honest.

    All the stars aligned for Con (Boris was still popular outside London, Jezza was toxic after he supported Russia during the Sailsbury attacks not to mention all the antisemitism at the time and Get Brexit Done was a powerful message after the 2017-2019 Parliament refused to implement any deal...)

    But the warning signs have been there for Con since 2016 honestly...
    I think in reality the Tories have been on a very slow transition to being out of power since 2016 as you say, really it all started when Cameron walked away and the Tory Party has been in difficulty ever since.

    Labour's idiotic membership have a lot to answer for as they really should have been in power for years at this point. The fact they are not says a lot.

    Danny Finkelstein has been saying for years that the Tories are pursuing a policy of eventual losing - and it seem like we are not headed for that point. I maintain that in 2019 Labour lost, the Tories did not win by being popular or even liked at all. It was Corbyn's utter toxicity that did it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 11,177
    edited May 20

    Farooq said:

    On topic. No this isn’t a sacking. Exploring if she could avoid appearing with the plebs like a common criminal herself is a fair ask and exploration, a lots being made of no big deal in my opinion, just like with Boris she’s marmite, means opponents big things up far too much.

    In yes minister Jim gets away with drink driving by showing the police his ministerial pass or something, and later asks why the Home Secretary couldn’t have got away with it too, but it turned out the HomeSec was unfortunate to have crashed into a train carrying nuclear waste.

    In today's shock news, Tory Rabbit defends a Tory
    I took it that MoonRabbit was embracing irony somewhat.
    No. I’m with Gardenwalker, this is getting bigged up too much because she is party political enemy number 1. In terms of scandal, sleaze and corruption, it’s not even in the same pond as the dodgy covid contracts for example, loans for BBC chairmanships is far worse than this too, bullying civil servants by throwing fruit at them is worse than this too etc etc

    The dodgy UK incomes destroying FTA’s this government is signing is proper scandal, as is the sewage being pumped into rivers and coastlines.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    GIN1138 said:

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    The 80 seat majority was really a fluke to be honest.

    All the stars aligned for Con (Boris was still popular outside London, Jezza was toxic after he supported Russia during the Sailsbury attacks not to mention all the antisemitism at the time and Get Brexit Done was a powerful message after the 2017-2019 Parliament refused to implement any deal...)

    But the warning signs have been there for Con since 2016 honestly...
    I think in reality the Tories have been on a very slow transition to being out of power since 2016 as you say, really it all started when Cameron walked away and the Tory Party has been in difficulty ever since.

    Labour's idiotic membership have a lot to answer for as they really should have been in power for years at this point. The fact they are not says a lot.

    Danny Finkelstein has been saying for years that the Tories are pursuing a policy of eventual losing - and it seem like we are not headed for that point. I maintain that in 2019 Labour lost, the Tories did not win by being popular or even liked at all. It was Corbyn's utter toxicity that did it.
    Did you support Corbyn until quite late on?
    If so, are you calling yourself an idiot?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201
    geoffw said:

    The Braverman story is not even an inverted pyramid of puffle

    It's win-win for Labour whether she goes or stays.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Farooq said:

    GIN1138 said:

    If you were dropped from space you would not believe the Tories had an 80 seat majority.

    Is this the Government that has achieved the least with a majority in history?

    The 80 seat majority was really a fluke to be honest.

    All the stars aligned for Con (Boris was still popular outside London, Jezza was toxic after he supported Russia during the Sailsbury attacks not to mention all the antisemitism at the time and Get Brexit Done was a powerful message after the 2017-2019 Parliament refused to implement any deal...)

    But the warning signs have been there for Con since 2016 honestly...
    I think in reality the Tories have been on a very slow transition to being out of power since 2016 as you say, really it all started when Cameron walked away and the Tory Party has been in difficulty ever since.

    Labour's idiotic membership have a lot to answer for as they really should have been in power for years at this point. The fact they are not says a lot.

    Danny Finkelstein has been saying for years that the Tories are pursuing a policy of eventual losing - and it seem like we are not headed for that point. I maintain that in 2019 Labour lost, the Tories did not win by being popular or even liked at all. It was Corbyn's utter toxicity that did it.
    Did you support Corbyn until quite late on?
    If so, are you calling yourself an idiot?
    Yes.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,406
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-run. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate.

    @georgeeaton

    Michael Gove at the NatCon conference four days ago: “I can’t think of a single Conservative who reminds me of Chris Huhne.”
    The Govester's been plotting again... 🕸
    Gove was an early Kemi backer in the last Tory leadership contest of course... ;)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,094

    Chris Huhne is coming to mind, although that was a bit different..

    Anything with what looks like a legal double standard for politicians isn't too good for them, in the long-term. Hence Bozo's issues with Partygate..

    At least Huhne had the good sense to retire from public life.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 7,871

    geoffw said:

    The Braverman story is not even an inverted pyramid of puffle

    It's win-win for Labour whether she goes or stays.
    Perhaps, but a different kind of win in the two cases

  • pingping Posts: 3,723
    edited May 20
    I’m surprised she drives herself.

    I assumed the HS would have pretty tight security - presumably she has her own police driver?

    Or did the points pre-date her appointment as hs?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,118
    edited May 20
    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    At this point it's not a question of whether she broke the rules. We all know she will have done.

    Keir Starmer really has got to clean up public life, it's an all time low.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 7,592
    Good news for Sunak. He can give her an ultimatum to apologise then sack her, like Starmer sacked first Long-Bailey and eventually Corbyn. It’s a purge opportunity, the start of the end of the Nat-Cs.

    If he doesn’t he’s frit.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 7,871

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncowded highway.)

    That might be a good excuse in India. But in the USofA …

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 18,347
    Oh my god
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 7,871

    Oh my god

    I'm listening

  • TimSTimS Posts: 7,592
    edited May 20

    At this point it's not a question of whether she broke the rules. We all know she will have done.

    Keir Starmer really has got to clean up public life, it's an all time low.

    Chris Huhne gives Starmer a perfect basis to press this one home. I know the cases aren’t exactly comparable, but it creates some sort of precedent.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201
    TimS said:

    Good news for Sunak. He can give her an ultimatum to apologise then sack her, like Starmer sacked first Long-Bailey and eventually Corbyn. It’s a purge opportunity, the start of the end of the Nat-Cs.

    If he doesn’t he’s frit.

    Sacking her leaves her pissing into the tent.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 2,780
    edited May 20

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to begin with? Does she have points already, is the question...
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,118
    BenPointer said: "The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with."

    I understand that, and perhaps should have said so. But I am wondering whether -- in addition -- she was driving dangerously for that place and time.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201
    TimS said:

    At this point it's not a question of whether she broke the rules. We all know she will have done.

    Keir Starmer really has got to clean up public life, it's an all time low.

    Chris Huhne gives Starmer a perfect basis to press this one home. I know the cases aren’t exactly comparable, but it creates some sort of precedent.
    Tbf Huhne's offence was much more serious: perverting the course of justice. But the parallels are hard to avoid.

    PS Who was the Director of Public Prosecutions who pushed through Huhne's prosecution - the name escapes me...
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/20/major-tory-donor-investigated-over-and-money-laundering-allegations

    Quite apart from whether there has been criminal activity or now, why are foreign-domiciled donors allowed to contribute huge sums of money to UK political parties?

    I can't believe there are people who are comfortable with this who are also against people who actually live and work in this country not being able to vote.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 11,177

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Is asking the question if a one on one is possible or not trying to influence? Really?

    Do you have any real evidence of trying to influence? Like trying to pressure officials into making it happen?
  • pingping Posts: 3,723
    edited May 20
    carnforth said:

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to being with? Does she have points already, is the question...
    Why was she even driving, is my question?

    Unless the offence was more than ~9 months ago, before she became hs?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201

    BenPointer said: "The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with."

    I understand that, and perhaps should have said so. But I am wondering whether -- in addition -- she was driving dangerously for that place and time.

    Were that the case, she probably would not have been offered the speed awareness course as an alternative.

    I suspect it's a simple speeding offence... followed by a simple coercion attempt.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 11,177

    TimS said:

    Good news for Sunak. He can give her an ultimatum to apologise then sack her, like Starmer sacked first Long-Bailey and eventually Corbyn. It’s a purge opportunity, the start of the end of the Nat-Cs.

    If he doesn’t he’s frit.

    Sacking her leaves her pissing into the tent.
    Ladies never do that.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 10,690

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Is asking the question if a one on one is possible or not trying to influence? Really?

    Do you have any real evidence of trying to influence? Like trying to pressure officials into making it happen?
    These people are so unfair. It was just the same with Boris Johnson and Richard Sharp. I mean, is asking the question "How much do you want the job?" really the same as soliciting a bribe?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 29,201
    carnforth said:

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to begin with? Does she have points already, is the question...
    If so, why not just take the course she was offered?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 7,871
     
    ping said:

    carnforth said:

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to being with? Does she have points already, is the question...
    Why was she even driving, is my question?

    Unless the offence was more than ~9 months ago, before she became hs?
    She was AG before HS

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 53,662

    TimS said:

    Good news for Sunak. He can give her an ultimatum to apologise then sack her, like Starmer sacked first Long-Bailey and eventually Corbyn. It’s a purge opportunity, the start of the end of the Nat-Cs.

    If he doesn’t he’s frit.

    Sacking her leaves her pissing into the tent.
    There are just people that piss, and those that don't.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,118
    As an American of a certain age, I am naturally curious to know how the Braverman incident compares to this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Is asking the question if a one on one is possible or not trying to influence? Really?

    Do you have any real evidence of trying to influence? Like trying to pressure officials into making it happen?
    You know damn well that asking this sort of thing of someone who works for you is improper.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 64,317
    ping said:

    carnforth said:

    How fast was Braverman going when she was caught speeding? I don't know the exact proportions, but I am reasonably sure that more than 99 percent of American drivers have driven over our speed limits*.

    (*Including me, and years ago I picked up two speeding tickets to prove it. In both instances, I think I was driving safely, perhaps 10 miles over the speed limit on an uncrowded highway.)

    The speeding is not the issue; the issue is trying to influence, and asking civil servants to influence, the way her speeding offence was dealt with.
    Why didn't she just take the points to being with? Does she have points already, is the question...
    Why was she even driving, is my question?

    Unless the offence was more than ~9 months ago, before she became hs?
    as I understand it, they are only allowed drivers when on official ministerial business. If they are on private business, or political business, they have to get their under their own steam.
This discussion has been closed.