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What do we think of the Desantis WH2024 camaign slogan? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited May 2023 in General
imageWhat do we think of the Desantis WH2024 camaign slogan? – politicalbetting.com

The third favourite for the 2024 White House Race and the second favorite for the Republican nomination is the current controversial governor of Florida Ron Desantis. He’s been making the headlines right across the US over the past year or so with his aggressive anti-woke agenda which amongst other things seeks to interfere with the way various subjects are taught in educational institutions.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,721
    edited May 2023
    First - and I agree with Mike, surely that sort of slogan isn't going to play well in Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio, etc where they cherish their Northern-ness, appreciate (Ice) Hockey etc - seems like the sort of slogan that will put people off necessarily to me.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Remember Yesterday Disney halted the planned movement of a department from California to Florida (2000 workers earning $240m or so between them a year) alongside some other changes
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,081
    I don't see that going down well. It seems blind to the fact that there is strong State identity across the US, most of which don't *want* to be Florida [regardless of what he means subtextually].
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,142
    edited May 2023
    Just as we were getting into comparative supermarket assessments and world cities vs tier 2.

    FPT Lyon is an interesting example. Very pleasant city, feels quite large and Parisian, good location near the Alps, Rhone Valley and Beaujolais, nice restaurants, but frankly it's not Paris but nor is it a pretty little market town or hilltop village. I'd rather be in either Cluny (or the delightfully pronounced Oingt), or Paris itself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited May 2023
    DeSantis is certainly leading the war on Woke in the US, on that he is little different ideologically from Trump.

    The problem with his new slogan is Florida is not the US now. Indeed Florida has steadily become more rightwing and conservative than the US overall. For example Trump won Florida by 3.5% in 2020 despite losing the US overall to Biden by 4.5%.

    It is the likes of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Georgia and Arizona the GOP need to win back to beat Biden. Florida is already firmly in their column and DeSantis was re elected Governor comfortably of the state in 2022 despite more mixed results for the GOP in the midterms overall
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,861
    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 633
    Umm... it fits neatly under the 2024? That's all I've got.
  • Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Zelensky addresses Arab league summit.

    President Assad also makes a reapparance at the summit, suggesting his fellow Arab leaders have now accepted he has effectively finally won the Syrian civil war
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    edited May 2023
    TimS said:

    Just as we were getting into comparative supermarket assessments and world cities vs tier 2.

    FPT Lyon is an interesting example. Very pleasant city, feels quite large and Parisian, good location near the Alps, Rhone Valley and Beaujolais, nice restaurants, but frankly it's not Paris but nor is it a pretty little market town or hilltop village. I'd rather be in either Cluny (or the delightfully pronounced Oingt), or Paris itself.

    Lyon is especially lovely in the old centre. But yes - when I was there for the Gazette I kept meeting people who kept telling me “it’s just as good as Paris” in a slightly forced way. Classic 2nd city inferiority complex, even tho 98% of the world would be delighted to live in Lyon

    Interestingly, you DON’T get this attitude in Marseilles. There you get a much more aggressive *Fuck Paris* and “we are different” vibe - almost like you are in a different country

    Lyon is much more classically French bourgeois than Marseilles
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    As Cornwall is one of the most popular counties to holiday in in the summer, there are worse places to be
  • On topic, Desantis is the one person who seems even worse than Donald Trump.

    He seems to have every bad attribute of Trump, but magnified by being a true believer fanatic and not just a self-centred arse.

    I worry for America if either Trump or Desantis get near the Oval Office. When Desantis started to make waves, it seemed positive that there was someone who could replace Trump in the GOP, but he's even worse than Donald - and that says something!
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited May 2023

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business (chain owned local pub) only wants to deal with cards.

    That's nothing to do with fraud but everything to do with the business turning customers away and potentially breaking numerous equality laws (as I suspect that will be where the card only transaction discussions end up)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,158
    edited May 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Zelensky addresses Arab league summit.

    President Assad also makes a reapparance at the summit, suggesting his fellow Arab leaders have now accepted he has effectively finally won the Syrian civil war

    He kinda has, yet there still remains significant pieces of the country not under his control.

  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Nigelb said:

    The Ukrainian military has used a Patriot anti-aircraft missile system to shoot down at least one Russian fighter jet from a distance, CNN reports, citing representatives of the Pentagon and the US Congress. According to them, the Russian fighter jet was shot down in recent weeks
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1659514249528393728

    asked Ukraine Defense Minister Reznikov in Kyiv about Zelensky’s G7 visit. He said a “top priority” is to discuss “aerial support” — jets. But he said more of everything is needed. Asked if he’d confirm reported Patriot shoot-down of a Russian jet, he said “no,” with a grin.
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1659512056465203200

    One Patriot system is defending Kyiv and the rumour is that another is somewhere near the Russian border. Although Patriot was designed to take out incoming missiles it can also attack aircraft.

    Recently two Russian planes and two helicopters were taken down within minutes of each other inside Russia. Quite likely that was Patriot.

    Russia within the last few days launched a large barrage of missiles (including multiple hypersonics) at the Kyiv Patriot system. The Patriot took out all the incoming missiles. Some debris from this hit part of the Patriot. It was so minor that the Ukrainians patched it up with duct tape.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,227
    NYT ($) - Disney opts not to build $1 billion Florida complex

    In March, Disney called Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida “anti-business” for his attempt to tighten oversight of the company’s theme park resort near Orlando. Last month, when Disney sued the governor and his allies for what it called “a targeted campaign of government retaliation,” the company made clear that $17 billion in planned investment in Walt Disney World was on the line.

    “Does the state want us to invest more, employ more people and pay more taxes, or not?” Robert Iger, Disney’s CEO, said on an earnings-related conference call with analysts last week.

    On Thursday, Iger and Josh D’Amaro, Disney’s theme park and consumer products chair, showed they were not bluffing, pulling the plug on an office complex that was scheduled for construction in Orlando at a cost of roughly $1 billion. It would have brought more than 2,000 Disney jobs to the region, with $120,000 as the average salary, according to an estimate from the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity.

    The project, known as Lake Nona Town Center, was supposed to cost $864 million, but recent price estimates have been closer to $1.3 billion. Disney had planned to relocate as many as 2,000 employees from Southern California, including most of a department known as Imagineering, which works with Disney’s movie studios to develop theme park attractions.

    Most of the affected employees complained bitterly about having to move — some quit — but Disney held firm, partly because of a Florida tax credit that would have allowed the company to recoup as much as $570 million over 20 years for building and occupying the complex.

    When he announced the project in 2021, D’Amaro cited “Florida’s business-friendly climate” as justification. . . .

    Florida officials have repeatedly pointed to the Lake Nona development as an example of economic vibrancy in Orlando, which suffered mightily during the pandemic. Noting that hotel chains and retailers were moving into the Lake Nona area in anticipation of Disney’s arrival, The Orlando Business Journal in January called the complex “a major economic driver for the region.”

    In a statement, Jerry L. Demings, the mayor of Orange County, which includes Orlando, said it was “unfortunate” that Disney canceled its plans. “However, these are the consequences when there isn’t an inclusive and collaborative work environment between the state of Florida and the business community,” Demings said.

    Gov. Gavin Newsom of California thanked Disney. “That’s 2,000+ jobs that will be welcomed back with open arms to the Golden State,” Newsom said on Twitter.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,154
    edited May 2023
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,743
    TRUMP
    2024
    MAKE AMERICA FLORID
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    As Cornwall is one of the most popular counties to holiday in in the summer, there are worse places to be
    On a per capita basis the Cornish economy is equivalent to poorer parts of Eastern Europe so I would be very careful looking at stuff.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 633
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Just as we were getting into comparative supermarket assessments and world cities vs tier 2.

    FPT Lyon is an interesting example. Very pleasant city, feels quite large and Parisian, good location near the Alps, Rhone Valley and Beaujolais, nice restaurants, but frankly it's not Paris but nor is it a pretty little market town or hilltop village. I'd rather be in either Cluny (or the delightfully pronounced Oingt), or Paris itself.

    Lyon is especially lovely in the old centre. But yes - when I was there for the Gazette I kept meeting people who kept telling me “it’s just as good as Paris” in a slightly forced way. Classic 2nd city inferiority complex, even tho 98% of the world would be delighted to live in Lyon

    Interestingly, you DON’T get this attitude in Marseilles. There you get a much more aggressive *Fuck Paris* and “we are different” vibe - almost like you are in a different country

    Lyon is much more classically French bourgeois than Marseilles
    That's because you are in a different country. Go to the outlying areas of Marseille (not Marseilles) and spoken French is very different, almost imcomrehensible until you've learned the alternative words they use.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited May 2023

    On topic, Desantis is the one person who seems even worse than Donald Trump.

    He seems to have every bad attribute of Trump, but magnified by being a true believer fanatic and not just a self-centred arse.

    I worry for America if either Trump or Desantis get near the Oval Office. When Desantis started to make waves, it seemed positive that there was someone who could replace Trump in the GOP, but he's even worse than Donald - and that says something!

    Kemi disagrees, when the Conservative Cabinet Minister met Ron she offered her full support for his 'war on woke' as DeSantis congratulated Badenoch saying:

    “She pointed out, and I think it’s true, that some of the woke has been exported from the United States.

    “I commend her and her efforts to make sure that this is not corrupting British society.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,227
    Courthouse News - Disney asks judge to toss lawsuit from DeSantis-appointed board
    The entertainment giant’s motion to dismiss a lawsuit from a new oversight board uses the state’s own legislation against it.

    Disney urged a Florida judge on Tuesday to throw out a lawsuit filed by a state-backed oversight board seeking to invalidate an agreement that gave the company control of the special district where its theme park is located.

    Pointing to a new state law that voids any previous contracts approved by the theme park and the former Reedy Creek Development District, now renamed the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District, Disney maintains that the “court accordingly cannot provide meaningful relief to either party.”

    “A ruling in CFTOD’s favor would be pointless, and a ruling in Disney’s favor would be meaningless,” the motion to dismiss states. “Under the Florida Constitution, trial courts have no power to issue opinions that are at best advisory and lack any real-world effect on the parties’ rights.”

    Earlier this month, the Florida Legislature passed a land use regulation bill that included an amendment that specifically targets an agreement made between Disney and the outgoing board that ceded control of most operations in the 25,000-acre district to the theme park, effectively neutering the new oversight board appointed by Republican Governor Ron DeSantis. . . .

    Disney contends SB 1604 makes the oversight board’s lawsuit against the agreement moot. . . .

    The row between DeSantis and the corporate giant began with Disney’s opposition to the state’s Parental Rights in Education law, known more commonly as the “Don’t Say Gay” law, which bans the teaching of sexual orientation and gender identity topics from kindergarten through third grade.

    Disney heavily criticized the bill, which was signed into law by DeSantis in March 2022, and vowed to end any political contributions to state lawmakers.

    DeSantis immediately responded, attacking Disney as a “woke corporation” and directing the GOP-controlled Florida Legislature to remove Disney’s self-governing status that was in place for more than 50 years.

    In February, DeSantis and the Florida Legislature renamed the district as the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District and the governor handpicked a new board of supervisors. . . .

    In what has become a familiar pattern, Disney seems to have anticipated the state’s every move. Its federal lawsuit specifically mentioned SB 1604 and now the company’s attorneys are using its language against the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District.

    “Dismissal is required here,” Disney’s motion states. “This is an action by a state board raising questions about the validity of contracts that are already void and unenforceable by unequivocal legislative fiat. There is no order this court can issue that will affect that result.”

    https://www.courthousenews.com/disney-asks-judge-to-toss-lawsuit-from-desantis-appointed-board/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    Could do with some rain.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Just as we were getting into comparative supermarket assessments and world cities vs tier 2.

    FPT Lyon is an interesting example. Very pleasant city, feels quite large and Parisian, good location near the Alps, Rhone Valley and Beaujolais, nice restaurants, but frankly it's not Paris but nor is it a pretty little market town or hilltop village. I'd rather be in either Cluny (or the delightfully pronounced Oingt), or Paris itself.

    Lyon is especially lovely in the old centre. But yes - when I was there for the Gazette I kept meeting people who kept telling me “it’s just as good as Paris” in a slightly forced way. Classic 2nd city inferiority complex, even tho 98% of the world would be delighted to live in Lyon

    Interestingly, you DON’T get this attitude in Marseilles. There you get a much more aggressive *Fuck Paris* and “we are different” vibe - almost like you are in a different country

    Lyon is much more classically French bourgeois than Marseilles
    That's because you are in a different country. Go to the outlying areas of Marseille (not Marseilles) and spoken French is very different, almost imcomrehensible until you've learned the alternative words they use.
    Why is it sometimes Lyon and other times Lyons, likewise Marseille and Marseilles?

    Or is this just a glitch in my head?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,279
    Most fraud probably involves electronic payments. So what should the focus be on wrt fraud? Cash. Makes sense.
  • HYUFD said:

    On topic, Desantis is the one person who seems even worse than Donald Trump.

    He seems to have every bad attribute of Trump, but magnified by being a true believer fanatic and not just a self-centred arse.

    I worry for America if either Trump or Desantis get near the Oval Office. When Desantis started to make waves, it seemed positive that there was someone who could replace Trump in the GOP, but he's even worse than Donald - and that says something!

    Kemi disagrees, when the Conservative Cabinet Minister met Ron she offered her full support for his 'war on woke' as DeSantis congratulated Badenoch saying:

    “She pointed out, and I think it’s true, that some of the woke has been exported from the United States.

    “I commend her and her efforts to make sure that this is not corrupting British society.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    Bad Enoch endorsing Ron seems to endorse what I just wrote. 🤷‍♂️
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    Carole getting desperate:

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1659491627382054914

    Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
    I would be really grateful if @guardian @ObserverUK & @TEDTalks made a comment on this ruling. Any comment.

    It has huge ramifications for UK journalism. And some basic solidarity from the organisations who published the work would go a long way.

    Thank you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    As Cornwall is one of the most popular counties to holiday in in the summer, there are worse places to be
    On a per capita basis the Cornish economy is equivalent to poorer parts of Eastern Europe so I would be very careful looking at stuff.
    Make your money in London from your 20s to late 40s, then move to Cornwall with your family and buy a bigger house for a quiter life in beautiful surroundings with great beaches in summer
  • Andy_JS said:

    Most fraud probably involves electronic payments. So what should the focus be on wrt fraud? Cash. Makes sense.

    Most fraud probably involves cash in hand.

    There's no legitimate reason for a firm to "hide the card machine", there are plenty of illegitimate reasons to do so.

    If you want to use cash, be my guest. But it should be upto each firm to decide if they want to be cash only, card only, or accept both. I will not frequent any dodgy businesses that are cash only in this day and age - but if you want to, its a free market.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    On topic, Desantis is the one person who seems even worse than Donald Trump.

    He seems to have every bad attribute of Trump, but magnified by being a true believer fanatic and not just a self-centred arse.

    I worry for America if either Trump or Desantis get near the Oval Office. When Desantis started to make waves, it seemed positive that there was someone who could replace Trump in the GOP, but he's even worse than Donald - and that says something!

    Kemi disagrees, when the Conservative Cabinet Minister met Ron she offered her full support for his 'war on woke' as DeSantis congratulated Badenoch saying:

    “She pointed out, and I think it’s true, that some of the woke has been exported from the United States.

    “I commend her and her efforts to make sure that this is not corrupting British society.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    Bad Enoch endorsing Ron seems to endorse what I just wrote. 🤷‍♂️
    PM Badenoch and President DeSantis by 2029? The new Maggie and Ronnie?
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 633
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Just as we were getting into comparative supermarket assessments and world cities vs tier 2.

    FPT Lyon is an interesting example. Very pleasant city, feels quite large and Parisian, good location near the Alps, Rhone Valley and Beaujolais, nice restaurants, but frankly it's not Paris but nor is it a pretty little market town or hilltop village. I'd rather be in either Cluny (or the delightfully pronounced Oingt), or Paris itself.

    Lyon is especially lovely in the old centre. But yes - when I was there for the Gazette I kept meeting people who kept telling me “it’s just as good as Paris” in a slightly forced way. Classic 2nd city inferiority complex, even tho 98% of the world would be delighted to live in Lyon

    Interestingly, you DON’T get this attitude in Marseilles. There you get a much more aggressive *Fuck Paris* and “we are different” vibe - almost like you are in a different country

    Lyon is much more classically French bourgeois than Marseilles
    That's because you are in a different country. Go to the outlying areas of Marseille (not Marseilles) and spoken French is very different, almost imcomrehensible until you've learned the alternative words they use.
    Why is it sometimes Lyon and other times Lyons, likewise Marseille and Marseilles?

    Or is this just a glitch in my head?
    In France, it's Lyon and Marseille. In Britain, it's sometimes Lyon/Marseille and sometimes Lyons/Marseilles. Do not go around Marseille spelling it with an -s, or even worse pronouncing the -s. You will be shown the error of your rosbif ways.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    Kind of a Massachusetts Miracle vibe to it except that Dukakis made companies come to his state whereas DeSantis makes them leave.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Spot on.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    On topic, Desantis is the one person who seems even worse than Donald Trump.

    He seems to have every bad attribute of Trump, but magnified by being a true believer fanatic and not just a self-centred arse.

    I worry for America if either Trump or Desantis get near the Oval Office. When Desantis started to make waves, it seemed positive that there was someone who could replace Trump in the GOP, but he's even worse than Donald - and that says something!

    Kemi disagrees, when the Conservative Cabinet Minister met Ron she offered her full support for his 'war on woke' as DeSantis congratulated Badenoch saying:

    “She pointed out, and I think it’s true, that some of the woke has been exported from the United States.

    “I commend her and her efforts to make sure that this is not corrupting British society.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    Bad Enoch endorsing Ron seems to endorse what I just wrote. 🤷‍♂️
    PM Badenoch and President DeSantis by 2029? The new Maggie and Ronnie?
    About as likely and as sensible as Rebecca Long Bailey and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Andy_JS said:

    Most fraud probably involves electronic payments. So what should the focus be on wrt fraud? Cash. Makes sense.

    Most fraud probably involves cash in hand.

    There's no legitimate reason for a firm to "hide the card machine", there are plenty of illegitimate reasons to do so.

    If you want to use cash, be my guest. But it should be upto each firm to decide if they want to be cash only, card only, or accept both. I will not frequent any dodgy businesses that are cash only in this day and age - but if you want to, its a free market.
    I would wait for TSE to appear here but most Fraud is electronic in some form or other.

    You seem to have got fraud and tax evasion / avoidance confused.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Kind of a Massachusetts Miracle vibe to it except that Dukakis made companies come to his state whereas DeSantis makes them leave.

    Companies are now leaving high tax Taxachussets for lower tax states like Florida.

    Governor Dukakis did of course get the Democratic nomination in 1988, even if he lost the general election in the end to VP George HW Bush
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    As Cornwall is one of the most popular counties to holiday in in the summer, there are worse places to be
    On a per capita basis the Cornish economy is equivalent to poorer parts of Eastern Europe so I would be very careful looking at stuff.
    The alleged poverty of Cornwall is one reason I question stats like GDP per capita

    Yes there are quite poor parts of Cornwall - generally inland and in old mining towns and villages - or in scruffy estates around Penzance or Bodmin

    But on the whole the quality of life is pretty high. The sea is never far away. Local transport is actually quite good (lots of branch railways)

    It’s also tremendously beautiful in parts. It ain’t the slag heaps of old Poland or post industrial Romania
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    Andy_JS said:

    Most fraud probably involves electronic payments. So what should the focus be on wrt fraud? Cash. Makes sense.

    Oh you sweet innocent child.

    I posted a link about fraud on here last week.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,154
    edited May 2023
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Most fraud probably involves electronic payments. So what should the focus be on wrt fraud? Cash. Makes sense.

    Most fraud probably involves cash in hand.

    There's no legitimate reason for a firm to "hide the card machine", there are plenty of illegitimate reasons to do so.

    If you want to use cash, be my guest. But it should be upto each firm to decide if they want to be cash only, card only, or accept both. I will not frequent any dodgy businesses that are cash only in this day and age - but if you want to, its a free market.
    I would wait for TSE to appear here but most Fraud is electronic in some form or other.

    You seem to have got fraud and tax evasion / avoidance confused.
    I would class cash in hand tax evasion as a type of fraud. Not sure if HMRC/banking does or not.

    By "most" do you mean by number of transactions, or by value? A bit like mean or median when it comes to averages.

    Electronic fraud possibly has more higher value transactions, but by number of transactions and counting cash in hand tax evasion as fraud I'd guess cash fraud is by far much more common.

    And its evasion not avoidance, avoidance is legal and cash in hand evasion absolutely is not.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    mwadams said:

    I don't see that going down well. It seems blind to the fact that there is strong State identity across the US, most of which don't *want* to be Florida [regardless of what he means subtextually].

    Totally agree. It sounds more like something an opponent would come up with to undermine you.

    Ron himself didn’t come up with it, it has to be a team effort, and suggests the team around him are rubbish.

    Why I would suggest de Santis is a poor political bet, I would be surprised if he didn’t have some issues in his wardrobe. The sort of issues that would bounce off Donald, but torpedo Ron sink him in no time.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    As Cornwall is one of the most popular counties to holiday in in the summer, there are worse places to be
    On a per capita basis the Cornish economy is equivalent to poorer parts of Eastern Europe so I would be very careful looking at stuff.
    The alleged poverty of Cornwall is one reason I question stats like GDP per capita

    Yes there are quite poor parts of Cornwall - generally inland and in old mining towns and villages - or in scruffy estates around Penzance or Bodmin

    But on the whole the quality of life is pretty high. The sea is never far away. Local transport is actually quite good (lots of branch railways)

    It’s also tremendously beautiful in parts. It ain’t the slag heaps of old Poland or post industrial Romania
    Hey it's lovely if you live there and have cash. It really isn't as nice if you live there and the work is seasonal tourism - what do you do when the tourists disappear for the year, the village is empty and the pub has just the locals in.

    We have friends who live on the Lizard (thanks to the location of RNAS Culdrose). When you hit October most of the pubs and other businesses shut / massively reduce hours until Easter as the population drops 60+%.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    mwadams said:

    I don't see that going down well. It seems blind to the fact that there is strong State identity across the US, most of which don't *want* to be Florida [regardless of what he means subtextually].

    Totally agree. It sounds more like something an opponent would come up with to undermine you.

    Ron himself didn’t come up with it, it has to be a team effort, and suggests the team around him are rubbish.

    Why I would suggest de Santis is a poor political bet, I would be surprised if he didn’t have some issues in his wardrobe. The sort of issues that would bounce off Donald, but torpedo Ron sink him in no time.
    I wonder if the target for the t-shirt is simply people in Florida happy to give Desantis's campaign $200-500 in return for a local t-shirt.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    TRUMP
    2024
    MAKE AMERICA FLORID

    Send DeSantis to Atlantis.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458
    I fear that cash vs. card is becoming the new Brexit on PB.

    Pops up regularly; pointless; tedious; nobody has anything new to say; and nobody budges an inch from their entrenched positions.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    As Cornwall is one of the most popular counties to holiday in in the summer, there are worse places to be
    On a per capita basis the Cornish economy is equivalent to poorer parts of Eastern Europe so I would be very careful looking at stuff.
    The alleged poverty of Cornwall is one reason I question stats like GDP per capita

    Yes there are quite poor parts of Cornwall - generally inland and in old mining towns and villages - or in scruffy estates around Penzance or Bodmin

    But on the whole the quality of life is pretty high. The sea is never far away. Local transport is actually quite good (lots of branch railways)

    It’s also tremendously beautiful in parts. It ain’t the slag heaps of old Poland or post industrial Romania
    My brother has just returned from a couple of weeks walking around rural Romania - he goes every year or so, treks and camps in the mountains, chats to local people in Romanian (this time he found an old guy, the remnant of a German community, to talk German to). Based on his photos I'd say Romania has some absolutely stunning countryside and some very pretty small towns. Some of the ex industrial and mining sites seem to get reclaimed by nature very quickly. Romania sounds like a pretty interesting place, although from what my brother says about how they treat the Roma you can understand why a lot of them would rather be here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    What do we think of the Desantis WH2024 camaign (sic) slogan?

    It's as rubbish as his campaign.
    I predict he'll be the Jeb Bush of this cycle: overhyped and over-funded - and over before it really starts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Over optimistic I think, but a genuine straw in the wind.

    Florida Democrats think the unthinkable: We’re in play
    The Jacksonville win was just one election. But the party hopes it represents something more.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/18/florida-democrats-jacksonville-donna-deegan-00097554
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    eek said:

    mwadams said:

    I don't see that going down well. It seems blind to the fact that there is strong State identity across the US, most of which don't *want* to be Florida [regardless of what he means subtextually].

    Totally agree. It sounds more like something an opponent would come up with to undermine you.

    Ron himself didn’t come up with it, it has to be a team effort, and suggests the team around him are rubbish.

    Why I would suggest de Santis is a poor political bet, I would be surprised if he didn’t have some issues in his wardrobe. The sort of issues that would bounce off Donald, but torpedo Ron sink him in no time.
    I wonder if the target for the t-shirt is simply people in Florida happy to give Desantis's campaign $200-500 in return for a local t-shirt.
    I see, in Austin you sell “Make America Texas” t shirts. Etc for every state.

    You do that, I’ll sell “Up in Orbit, Ronnie Corbett” in all the states, and we’ll see who makes the most.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited May 2023
    Nigelb said:

    What do we think of the Desantis WH2024 camaign (sic) slogan?

    It's as rubbish as his campaign.
    I predict he'll be the Jeb Bush of this cycle: overhyped and over-funded - and over before it really starts.

    Jeb Bush was actually pretty competent as a governor, especially on areas like education reform.

    Indeed until 1994 he was expected to be the Bush brother to run for President in 2000, not Dubya. However Dubya unexpectedly beat incumbent Democrat governor Ann Richards in Texas while Jeb narrowly lost to Democrat governor Lawton Chiles in Florida.

    His real chance of the Presidency was 2000 therefore, not 2016 when he did actually run and got steamrollered by Trump
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,480
    edited May 2023

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    As Cornwall is one of the most popular counties to holiday in in the summer, there are worse places to be
    On a per capita basis the Cornish economy is equivalent to poorer parts of Eastern Europe so I would be very careful looking at stuff.
    The alleged poverty of Cornwall is one reason I question stats like GDP per capita

    Yes there are quite poor parts of Cornwall - generally inland and in old mining towns and villages - or in scruffy estates around Penzance or Bodmin

    But on the whole the quality of life is pretty high. The sea is never far away. Local transport is actually quite good (lots of branch railways)

    It’s also tremendously beautiful in parts. It ain’t the slag heaps of old Poland or post industrial Romania
    My brother has just returned from a couple of weeks walking around rural Romania - he goes every year or so, treks and camps in the mountains, chats to local people in Romanian (this time he found an old guy, the remnant of a German community, to talk German to). Based on his photos I'd say Romania has some absolutely stunning countryside and some very pretty small towns. Some of the ex industrial and mining sites seem to get reclaimed by nature very quickly. Romania sounds like a pretty interesting place, although from what my brother says about how they treat the Roma you can understand why a lot of them would rather be here.
    Yes, awful treatment of the Roma, and quite a lot of anti-semitism still, like most of Eastern Europe, but generally a surprisingly rich, varied and diversely originating national culture, and then all topped off with some Orthodox passion and one-off, Roman roots.

    There's also a dizzying array of national minorities , the scale of which would probably surprise a lot of people - German, Greek, Hungarian, still even one or two Jewish people, I think, too, etc,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Anti-Trump Republicans increasingly desperate to shake up race

    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4011414-anti-trump-republicans-increasingly-desperate-to-shake-up-race/
    Republican senators who don’t want Donald Trump to be the GOP’s nominee for president in 2024 are feeling a growing sense of urgency to shake up the race as recent polls show Trump dominating the primary field and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) losing momentum.
    Many Republican senators viewed DeSantis as the best candidate to supplant Trump atop the ticket after the 2022 midterm election in which DeSantis won a resounding reelection victory; GOP candidates won every statewide race in Florida.
    But after DeSantis committed what some GOP strategists viewed as a few high-profile political gaffes and lost ground to Trump in the polls, Republican senators are stepping back and reevaluating the presidential primary field — as are some big Republican donors.
    “It’s way early. It’s way early, and I’m not going to let the media define who our frontrunners are,” Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) said.
    Asked if Republicans are looking for an alternative to Trump or DeSantis, who has embraced Trump’s populism to the extent some critics call him “Trump-lite,” Murkowski said, “I certainly am.”
    “If that is the face of the Republican Party, if that’s the contest, Republicans are doomed,” she said. ..
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    How much is Rishi Sunak worth?

    He's gone to Japan with a hole in his sock

    image
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 2,995
    On topic, I find it idiotic and uninspiring; if I was in e.g. Minnesota I'm not sure I'd *want* to be Florida?? Also so obviously derivative of his chief rival for nomination. Kind of gives you the choice of Actual Trump or Poundland Trump.

    There again, the Republican party seems to have gone fully batshit, so who knows. Maybe it works? Lord knows I'm not the target audience.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    As Cornwall is one of the most popular counties to holiday in in the summer, there are worse places to be
    On a per capita basis the Cornish economy is equivalent to poorer parts of Eastern Europe so I would be very careful looking at stuff.
    The alleged poverty of Cornwall is one reason I question stats like GDP per capita

    Yes there are quite poor parts of Cornwall - generally inland and in old mining towns and villages - or in scruffy estates around Penzance or Bodmin

    But on the whole the quality of life is pretty high. The sea is never far away. Local transport is actually quite good (lots of branch railways)

    It’s also tremendously beautiful in parts. It ain’t the slag heaps of old Poland or post industrial Romania
    Hey it's lovely if you live there and have cash. It really isn't as nice if you live there and the work is seasonal tourism - what do you do when the tourists disappear for the year, the village is empty and the pub has just the locals in.

    We have friends who live on the Lizard (thanks to the location of RNAS Culdrose). When you hit October most of the pubs and other businesses shut / massively reduce hours until Easter as the population drops 60+%.
    That’s not true in towns like Falmouth, Truro or St Austell tho. Which are the three biggest towns in the county?

    They have a life of their own

    Falmouth especially - now it has the university
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,603
    AlistairM said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Ukrainian military has used a Patriot anti-aircraft missile system to shoot down at least one Russian fighter jet from a distance, CNN reports, citing representatives of the Pentagon and the US Congress. According to them, the Russian fighter jet was shot down in recent weeks
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1659514249528393728

    asked Ukraine Defense Minister Reznikov in Kyiv about Zelensky’s G7 visit. He said a “top priority” is to discuss “aerial support” — jets. But he said more of everything is needed. Asked if he’d confirm reported Patriot shoot-down of a Russian jet, he said “no,” with a grin.
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1659512056465203200

    One Patriot system is defending Kyiv and the rumour is that another is somewhere near the Russian border. Although Patriot was designed to take out incoming missiles it can also attack aircraft.

    Recently two Russian planes and two helicopters were taken down within minutes of each other inside Russia. Quite likely that was Patriot.

    Russia within the last few days launched a large barrage of missiles (including multiple hypersonics) at the Kyiv Patriot system. The Patriot took out all the incoming missiles. Some debris from this hit part of the Patriot. It was so minor that the Ukrainians patched it up with duct tape.
    Patriot was originally designed to shoot down aircraft. A very suspicious US Senate seemed to think that it was a covert attempt to build an ABM system, so people like the late Senator E. Kennedy, kept trying to revise the spec down to make it incapable vs ballistic missiles*. Chiefly by reducing max velocity of the missiles.

    In the end, the engineers kept on making it more capable - so it ended up with a marginal capability vs short range ballistic missiles.

    The later versions of the missiles added more range and faster max velocity. PAC-3 is heavily specialised for ABM - to the point that PAC-2 is generally used for anti-aircraft work. They can be incorporated in the same battery.

    *There is the tale of a Congressional tour of an early Aegis equipped warship. The captain pointed out that they were tracking satellites in low earth orbit. A few days later a stern directive went put to install a software mod to stop this - it was evidence of an ABM capability. These days Aegis has both the missiles and radar to hit ABMs....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    eek said:

    How much is Rishi Sunak worth?

    He's gone to Japan with a hole in his sock

    image

    The genuinely posh are quite happy wearing old clothes with a few holes in
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    What do we think of the Desantis WH2024 camaign (sic) slogan?

    It's as rubbish as his campaign.
    I predict he'll be the Jeb Bush of this cycle: overhyped and over-funded - and over before it really starts.

    Jeb Bush was actually pretty competent as a governor, especially on areas like education reform.

    Indeed until 1994 he was expected to be the Bush brother to run for President in 2000, not Dubya. However Dubya unexpectedly beat incumbent Democrat governor Ann Richards in Texas while Jeb narrowly lost to Democrat governor Lawton Chiles in Florida.

    His real chance of the Presidency was 2000 therefore, not 2016 when he did actually run and got steamrollered by Trump
    That is one advantage of the US system over ours; you get to see how leaders might be when they step up to the national stage, before electing them.

    Doesn't stop the electorate picking idiots, but at least they don't get to complain they weren't warned.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    eek said:

    How much is Rishi Sunak worth?

    He's gone to Japan with a hole in his sock

    image

    And no shoes ? :smile:
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,784

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    Surely for Sunak it would be 'Make Britain Southampton'
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    How much is Rishi Sunak worth?

    He's gone to Japan with a hole in his sock

    image

    And no shoes ? :smile:
    It's Japan, you take your shoes off to enter many places (such as where this photo was taken).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    I have a great tee design, that will make us a billions as it goes global.

    A picture of a big cargo ship, the hold is full of snails.

    Who wants to come in with me?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,182

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909
    eek said:

    How much is Rishi Sunak worth?

    He's gone to Japan with a hole in his sock

    image

    "Still; for me, socks are like sex: tons of it about, and I never seem to get any!" - Hugh Laurie as Prince George the Prince Regent.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557

    AlistairM said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Ukrainian military has used a Patriot anti-aircraft missile system to shoot down at least one Russian fighter jet from a distance, CNN reports, citing representatives of the Pentagon and the US Congress. According to them, the Russian fighter jet was shot down in recent weeks
    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1659514249528393728

    asked Ukraine Defense Minister Reznikov in Kyiv about Zelensky’s G7 visit. He said a “top priority” is to discuss “aerial support” — jets. But he said more of everything is needed. Asked if he’d confirm reported Patriot shoot-down of a Russian jet, he said “no,” with a grin.
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1659512056465203200

    One Patriot system is defending Kyiv and the rumour is that another is somewhere near the Russian border. Although Patriot was designed to take out incoming missiles it can also attack aircraft.

    Recently two Russian planes and two helicopters were taken down within minutes of each other inside Russia. Quite likely that was Patriot.

    Russia within the last few days launched a large barrage of missiles (including multiple hypersonics) at the Kyiv Patriot system. The Patriot took out all the incoming missiles. Some debris from this hit part of the Patriot. It was so minor that the Ukrainians patched it up with duct tape.
    Patriot was originally designed to shoot down aircraft. A very suspicious US Senate seemed to think that it was a covert attempt to build an ABM system, so people like the late Senator E. Kennedy, kept trying to revise the spec down to make it incapable vs ballistic missiles*. Chiefly by reducing max velocity of the missiles.

    In the end, the engineers kept on making it more capable - so it ended up with a marginal capability vs short range ballistic missiles.

    The later versions of the missiles added more range and faster max velocity. PAC-3 is heavily specialised for ABM - to the point that PAC-2 is generally used for anti-aircraft work. They can be incorporated in the same battery.

    *There is the tale of a Congressional tour of an early Aegis equipped warship. The captain pointed out that they were tracking satellites in low earth orbit. A few days later a stern directive went put to install a software mod to stop this - it was evidence of an ABM capability. These days Aegis has both the missiles and radar to hit ABMs....
    The UK's Type 45s (when they work) provide a similar capability - though the missiles lack the range of some of the US kit.

    S Korea is going to build their own version:
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2023/05/205_350942.html

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    How much is Rishi Sunak worth?

    He's gone to Japan with a hole in his sock

    image

    And no shoes ? :smile:
    It's Japan, you take your shoes off to enter many places (such as where this photo was taken).
    Whoosh.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 2,995

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    Yorkshire is emphatically not Britain's Florida (nowhere is really), and as has been discussed ad nauseam is Britain's Texas.

    Oddly, DeSantis's pitch would be better if he was from Texas, a state that feel more keyed in to the American psyche than Florida.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    On cash, this can cut both ways. A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower.

    If by "processing fees" you mean VAT, yes its much lower when you don't report cash transactions.

    Especially if you use that cash to pay people cash in hand, so you dodge Employer NIC too.
    Cash = potentially dodgy is not a narrative we should be engaging with IMO.
    Businesses trying to encourage customers towards using cash = not just potentially but probably dodgy absolutely is a narrative we should be engaging with.

    Companies that don't care if you use cash or card, cash probably isn't dodgy there, but any firm that is trying to egg people or give discounts if doing cash rather than card . . . it isn't because of card processing fees which have been as low as cashing processing fees for years now.

    If someone wants to be paid cash in hand, the first question you should ask is why - and the answer is more likely than not dodgy.
    Hang on we aren't taking about businesses wanting cash here - this was very much customer wishes to use cash, business only wants to deal with cards.
    No, it was the opposite, I was responding to someone who runs a business that "hides the card machine". Every alarm bell should be ringing at that.

    A small businesswoman my mother knows doesn't ban card transactions but does hide the machine to perform them unless customers specifically ask to pay by card. She prefers cash because the processing fees are lower. [cash in hand dodges VAT]
    You should not class people by the way you work/think Bart. It was perhaps worded badly and fact she does not openly display it does not in any way suggest she is a criminal. Only a woke F***ed up Tory could come to that conclusion.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,670
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    How much is Rishi Sunak worth?

    He's gone to Japan with a hole in his sock

    image

    The genuinely posh are quite happy wearing old clothes with a few holes in
    Bet they are cashmere and I don't think Rishi is genuinely posh, minted perhaps. If only he was as frugal with the public money he splashes on helicopters and suchlike to avoid meeting any of the great unwashed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,956
    edited May 2023
    Pro_Rata said:

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    Surely for Sunak it would be 'Make Britain Southampton'
    He’s a Yorkshire MP, he knows the awesomesauceness of Yorkshire.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    How much is Rishi Sunak worth?

    He's gone to Japan with a hole in his sock

    image

    And no shoes ? :smile:
    The context is a charm offensive. The socks have the logo of a Japanese baseball team that the Japanese PM supports. Clearly been thought a lot about knowing that Sunak would be taking his socks off!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/rishi-sunak-red-socks-japan/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    @tomhfh
    For the first time in 14 years the number of billionaires on the Sunday Times Rich List has fallen, by six to 171.

    This is a policy failure.
    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1659476596590358528?s=20
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,669
    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    Yorkshire is emphatically not Britain's Florida (nowhere is really), and as has been discussed ad nauseam is Britain's Texas.

    Oddly, DeSantis's pitch would be better if he was from Texas, a state that feel more keyed in to the American psyche than Florida.
    I can't see people in the other 49 States being keen on being turned into Floridians. Most people are proud of their State.

    BTW My son says there's a meme that starts 'Florida man...' - and this seems to be true:
    https://nypost.com/article/crazy-florida-man-headlines-that-made-the-meme/
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,142
    edited May 2023
    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    Yorkshire is emphatically not Britain's Florida (nowhere is really), and as has been discussed ad nauseam is Britain's Texas.

    Oddly, DeSantis's pitch would be better if he was from Texas, a state that feel more keyed in to the American psyche than Florida.
    We don't have a Florida, not on these shores anyway. Our Florida is the Algarve and Costa del Sol.

    Our Southern California is Catalonia and the Cote D'Azur. And our Hawaii is the Canaries.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 2,995

    Ghedebrav said:

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    Yorkshire is emphatically not Britain's Florida (nowhere is really), and as has been discussed ad nauseam is Britain's Texas.

    Oddly, DeSantis's pitch would be better if he was from Texas, a state that feel more keyed in to the American psyche than Florida.
    I can't see people in the other 49 States being keen on being turned into Floridians. Most people are proud of their State.

    BTW My son says there's a meme that starts 'Florida man...' - and this seems to be true:
    https://nypost.com/article/crazy-florida-man-headlines-that-made-the-meme/
    It is indeed. My birthday Florida Man headline is: "Florida man denies syringes found inside rectum are his." My son's is "Man carries alligator into beer store in Florida".
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,865
    tlg86 said:

    Carole getting desperate:

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1659491627382054914

    Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
    I would be really grateful if @guardian @ObserverUK & @TEDTalks made a comment on this ruling. Any comment.

    It has huge ramifications for UK journalism. And some basic solidarity from the organisations who published the work would go a long way.

    Thank you.

    Surely removing Carole Cadwalladr from journalism would improve the overall standards of the profession. Who else should be removed? Peston? Katie Hopkins? Any others?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited May 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/

    Labour have just lost the General Election. Thrown it away. Winner Sunak now on course for 92 redux for the Tories.

    Unless Telegraph is making it up.

    What cost Labour the May 2024 General Election, was hubris from doing okay at 2023 locals and double digit polling leads so they felt it was in the bag.

    Labour of all parties should have appreciated, never count your chickens until they have hatched.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,206
    Something sobering for a Friday afternoon

    A cache of 140 photos of the Warsaw ghetto in September 1941. Taken by a Wehrmacht sergeant


    https://delet.jhi.pl/en/users-collections/doc-list/182


    Harrowing does not really cover it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,845
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    On topic, Desantis is the one person who seems even worse than Donald Trump.

    He seems to have every bad attribute of Trump, but magnified by being a true believer fanatic and not just a self-centred arse.

    I worry for America if either Trump or Desantis get near the Oval Office. When Desantis started to make waves, it seemed positive that there was someone who could replace Trump in the GOP, but he's even worse than Donald - and that says something!

    Kemi disagrees, when the Conservative Cabinet Minister met Ron she offered her full support for his 'war on woke' as DeSantis congratulated Badenoch saying:

    “She pointed out, and I think it’s true, that some of the woke has been exported from the United States.

    “I commend her and her efforts to make sure that this is not corrupting British society.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/30/ron-desantis-backs-kemi-badenochs-war-on-woke
    Bad Enoch endorsing Ron seems to endorse what I just wrote. 🤷‍♂️
    PM Badenoch and President DeSantis by 2029? The new Maggie and Ronnie?
    You do have a knack for raising anxiety levels.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,876
    Another indicator of a tactical voting bloodbath for the Tories if they cannot turn things around. Look at the LibDem number in this - and remember they were in power for five years under David Cameron!

    https://twitter.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1659552071190736900
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,230
    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    "Florida Man" is a shorthand for an eccentric that will do strange and silly/bad things. So if a man tries to cross a river with two boats attached to his feet or drive a car with a trained dog, an American will go "Florida, huh". It usually has a poverty/illegal tinge that doesn't come across in my analogies, but you get the point. It's the equivalent of "Make Britain Shameless" or "Make Britain Norfolk".

    It's not the slogan I would have picked.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,555
    There was a time when Cornwall tried to promote itself as England's California, which I suppose it could be, if you ignore the lack of little things like big cities, great universities, motorways, warm weather, decent Mexican food, hundreds of vineyards, etc. etc.

    In fact, when you got down to it, about the only thing they had in common was some beaches.

    I don't think the campaign lasted very long for some reason.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Cash is still the primary means of payment (and store of value) for unbanked people with a low income and helps avoiding debt traps due to uncontrolled spending of money. It supports anonymity and avoids tracking for economic or political reasons.[29] In addition, cash is the only means for contingency planning in order to mitigate risks in case of natural disasters or failures of the technical infrastructure like a large-scale power blackout or shutdown of the communication network.[30] Therefore, central banks and governments are increasingly driving the sufficient availability of cash. The US Federal Reserve has provided guidelines for the continuity of cash services,[31] and the Swedish government is concerned about the consequences in abandoning cash and is considering to pass a law requiring all banks to handle cash.[32]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,244

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    The SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein could run on a combined slogan of 'Make Britain England' :wink:
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited May 2023

    Another indicator of a tactical voting bloodbath for the Tories if they cannot turn things around. Look at the LibDem number in this - and remember they were in power for five years under David Cameron!

    https://twitter.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1659552071190736900

    I normally agree with all of your posts, you aim not for quantity but quality lotus leafs to hop to. Not sure this time. Leave and Tories have large don’t knows and you would expect this kind of question to bias against what is current and most in the mind.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,845
    HYUFD said:

    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/

    Do I sniff the beginnings of a SAVE OUR BREXIT campaign theme from the Tories?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Northern Ireland local elections first preference results so far

    SF 32% and 29 councillors
    DUP 23% and 16 councillors
    Alliance 12% and 8 councillors
    UUP 11.5% and 3 councillors
    SDLP 8% and 2 councillors
    TUV 2.6% and 0 councillors

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/northern-ireland/results

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,909
    HYUFD said:

    Northern Ireland local elections first preference results so far

    SF 32% and 29 councillors
    DUP 23% and 16 councillors
    Alliance 12% and 8 councillors
    UUP 11.5% and 3 councillors
    SDLP 8% and 2 councillors
    TUV 2.6% and 0 councillors

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/northern-ireland/results

    First Minister Michelle for real this time?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,227
    NYT - ‘Biden and me’: DeSantis privately tells donors Trump can’t win

    Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida all but declared his presidential candidacy Thursday afternoon, telling donors and supporters on a call that only three “credible” candidates were in the race and that only he would be able to win both the Republican primary and the general election.

    “You have basically three people at this point that are credible in this whole thing,” DeSantis told donors on the call, organized by the super PAC supporting him, Never Back Down. “Biden, Trump and me. And I think of those three, two have a chance to get elected president — Biden and me, based on all the data in the swing states, which is not great for the former president and probably insurmountable because people aren’t going to change their view of him.”

    The call . . . came as the governor is expected to officially enter the presidential race next week, according to three people familiar with his intentions. . . .

    DeSantis quoted a voter he had talked with at an event in Iowa as saying, “You know, Trump was somebody, we liked his policies but we didn’t like his values. And with you, we like your policies but also know that you share our values.” . . .

    He also boasted of his successful visit to Des Moines, Iowa, over the weekend after Trump canceled his own rally in the area, citing a tornado watch.

    DeSantis talked with pride about the Florida legislative session and the state’s budget . . . .

    He did not take questions and was the only person who spoke on the call. . . .

    DeSantis suggested that Trump had leaned too heavily on executive action instead of helping push measures through Congress, and pointed to his own work during legislative sessions in Florida as a contrast. . . .

    At another point, DeSantis was blunt, saying, “I think the voters want to move on from Biden,” adding, “They just want a vehicle they can get behind” but “there’s just too many voters that don’t view Trump as that vehicle.” . . .

    Trump is running roughly 30 percentage points ahead of DeSantis in national polling averages, but the Florida governor would be the strongest Republican challenger to join the field so far. DeSantis told the people on the call that he did not put much stock in those polls, saying that he had started as an underdog in past races and that the polls before his reelection in 2022 showed a much smaller margin of victory than he ended up with.

    He is likely to start with more money in an outside group than any Republican primary candidate in history. He has more than $80 million expected to be transferred from his state account to his super PAC, which has also raised more than $30 million, in addition to having tens of millions more in donor commitments, according to people familiar with the fundraising.

    It is possible that DeSantis could pivot his plans at the last minute, and it is still unclear where or when he might hold a formal rally announcing his candidacy.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,448
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/

    Do I sniff the beginnings of a SAVE OUR BREXIT campaign theme from the Tories?
    Sob? Fair enough given they have made many of us weep.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,845

    tlg86 said:

    Carole getting desperate:

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1659491627382054914

    Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
    I would be really grateful if @guardian @ObserverUK & @TEDTalks made a comment on this ruling. Any comment.

    It has huge ramifications for UK journalism. And some basic solidarity from the organisations who published the work would go a long way.

    Thank you.

    Surely removing Carole Cadwalladr from journalism would improve the overall standards of the profession. Who else should be removed? Peston? Katie Hopkins? Any others?
    I wouldn't complain too much if Giles Coren were to limit himself to restaurant reviews.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,786
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/

    Do I sniff the beginnings of a SAVE OUR BREXIT campaign theme from the Tories?
    He's laying the groundwork for a future referendum by giving EU citizens the vote.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Cash is still the primary means of payment (and store of value) for unbanked people with a low income and helps avoiding debt traps due to uncontrolled spending of money. It supports anonymity and avoids tracking for economic or political reasons.[29] In addition, cash is the only means for contingency planning in order to mitigate risks in case of natural disasters or failures of the technical infrastructure like a large-scale power blackout or shutdown of the communication network.[30] Therefore, central banks and governments are increasingly driving the sufficient availability of cash. The US Federal Reserve has provided guidelines for the continuity of cash services,[31] and the Swedish government is concerned about the consequences in abandoning cash and is considering to pass a law requiring all banks to handle cash.[32]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash
    That first sentence is stating the obvious.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,743
    Selebian said:

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    The SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein could run on a combined slogan of 'Make Britain England' :wink:
    I don’t think that would change many folk’s instinctive certainty that Britain is England.
This discussion has been closed.