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What do we think of the Desantis WH2024 camaign slogan? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,412
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Cash is still the primary means of payment (and store of value) for unbanked people with a low income and helps avoiding debt traps due to uncontrolled spending of money. It supports anonymity and avoids tracking for economic or political reasons.[29] In addition, cash is the only means for contingency planning in order to mitigate risks in case of natural disasters or failures of the technical infrastructure like a large-scale power blackout or shutdown of the communication network.[30] Therefore, central banks and governments are increasingly driving the sufficient availability of cash. The US Federal Reserve has provided guidelines for the continuity of cash services,[31] and the Swedish government is concerned about the consequences in abandoning cash and is considering to pass a law requiring all banks to handle cash.[32]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash
    That first sentence is stating the obvious.
    Globally would the default for unbanked be cash or mobile payments?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,014
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Cash is still the primary means of payment (and store of value) for unbanked people with a low income and helps avoiding debt traps due to uncontrolled spending of money. It supports anonymity and avoids tracking for economic or political reasons.[29] In addition, cash is the only means for contingency planning in order to mitigate risks in case of natural disasters or failures of the technical infrastructure like a large-scale power blackout or shutdown of the communication network.[30] Therefore, central banks and governments are increasingly driving the sufficient availability of cash. The US Federal Reserve has provided guidelines for the continuity of cash services,[31] and the Swedish government is concerned about the consequences in abandoning cash and is considering to pass a law requiring all banks to handle cash.[32]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash
    That first sentence is stating the obvious.
    Not to @Anabobazina it's not :)
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,014

    HYUFD said:

    Northern Ireland local elections first preference results so far

    SF 32% and 29 councillors
    DUP 23% and 16 councillors
    Alliance 12% and 8 councillors
    UUP 11.5% and 3 councillors
    SDLP 8% and 2 councillors
    TUV 2.6% and 0 councillors

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2023/northern-ireland/results

    First Minister Michelle for real this time?
    Must be the booze - this is local councils, not the Assembly!

    "But you don't drink, Sunil" I hear you cry :lol:
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,295
    edited May 2023
    I haven't been banned, I am in Germany buying 993 Carrera RS Clubsport parts.

    FPT regarding F-16 wank...

    It takes 6-12 months to wing a Viper driver depending on the syllabus. But that assumes they are joining a squadron that already has a cadre of experienced operators. A squadron full of fucking nuggets stood around scratching their holes is not optimal.

    12 months for the crew chief who is needed to keep the fucking thing working.

    There is a hangar full of ex RNLAF F-16s in Belgium. Aircraft availability is not the problem here...

    Sunak is taking the piss with his offer to train Ukrainian pilots. The RAF training system has now collapsed to 50% of the intended throughput and that was far too skinny to start with. They are now sending British pilots to Canada and Italy for training.

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133
    PBers from OGH onward are getting their knickers in a twist over the ALLEGED national slogan for impending DeSantis for POTUS 2024 campaiagn.

    "Make America Florida" will NOT be THE campaign slogan for RDS though it will likely be used (to a degree) in the Sunshine State.

    As has been noted, most Americans do NOT perceive Florida to be quintessentially American, in way they look upon, say, Iowa and New Hampshire.

    Even though today's FL is way more representative of USA as whole than either IA or NH.

    Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack on . . . wait for it . . . Mickey Mouse, are just a tad premature. . .
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,088
    edited May 2023

    Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack on . . . wait for it . . . Mickey Mouse, are just a tad premature. . .

    Is that just by default because you think Trump will somehow be tripped up, or do you think we are overlooking some qualities he possesses?
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,862

    Selebian said:

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    The SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein could run on a combined slogan of 'Make Britain England' :wink:
    I don’t think that would change many folk’s instinctive certainty that Britain is England.
    No. England, Scotland and Wales make up the island of "Great Britain". Great Britain plus NI make the "United Kingdom". For someone who posts so extensively on the subject you'd think you might appreciate the basics of the nomenclature.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,358
    edited May 2023

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,568
    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,568
    Dura_Ace said:

    I haven't been banned, I am in Germany buying 993 Carrera RS Clubsport parts.

    FPT regarding F-16 wank...

    It takes 6-12 months to wing a Viper driver depending on the syllabus. But that assumes they are joining a squadron that already has a cadre of experienced operators. A squadron full of fucking nuggets stood around scratching their holes is not optimal.

    12 months for the crew chief who is needed to keep the fucking thing working.

    There is a hangar full of ex RNLAF F-16s in Belgium. Aircraft availability is not the problem here...

    Sunak is taking the piss with his offer to train Ukrainian pilots. The RAF training system has now collapsed to 50% of the intended throughput and that was far too skinny to start with. They are now sending British pilots to Canada and Italy for training.

    Is that for pilots with no previous fast jet experience or would it be different for pilots who have been flying MIG-29s?
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,907
    Regarding 'Make America Florida'...
    DeSantis actually gets things done in his 'war on woke', taking control of universities, banning books in school etc.
    What does Trump actually do? Not very much - it is just a lot of hyperbole and talking.
    So he is appealing to become the republican nominee on the basis that he gets things done, and they would do well to nominate him, as not only does he get things done, he also doesn't have the off-putting baggage associated with Trump, the Jan 6 stuff, etc.
    DeSantis is more likely to win the election and more likely to actually get things delivered in the 'war on woke'
    I think that those on the 'left' should be terrified of DeSantis, but the reality is that the republicans will probably go with Trump.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,621

    ...Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack...are just a tad premature.

    I am one of those PBers but happy to debate the point. I am working on the assumption that i) historically Trump has reduced his Republican competitors to kneeling crybabies, and that ii) presently DeSantis has not energised the US public. Given that, I assume Trump will win the nom. Whence comes your conviction otherwise?

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,375
    Sinn Fein up 9% on first preferences. DUP 3.6% down
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,090

    Sinn Fein up 9% on first preferences. DUP 3.6% down

    SDLP down 3.6% too, UUP down 3%. Alliance up 1.4% and TUV up 1.1.%
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,295

    Dura_Ace said:

    I haven't been banned, I am in Germany buying 993 Carrera RS Clubsport parts.

    FPT regarding F-16 wank...

    It takes 6-12 months to wing a Viper driver depending on the syllabus. But that assumes they are joining a squadron that already has a cadre of experienced operators. A squadron full of fucking nuggets stood around scratching their holes is not optimal.

    12 months for the crew chief who is needed to keep the fucking thing working.

    There is a hangar full of ex RNLAF F-16s in Belgium. Aircraft availability is not the problem here...

    Sunak is taking the piss with his offer to train Ukrainian pilots. The RAF training system has now collapsed to 50% of the intended throughput and that was far too skinny to start with. They are now sending British pilots to Canada and Italy for training.

    Is that for pilots with no previous fast jet experience or would it be different for pilots who have been flying MIG-29s?
    The ab-initio B course is almost a year once they have frigged around with language training and ground school.

    There are shorter courses for crew coming off other types and Fulcrum experience would help some but unlike somebody coming off another NATO type all of the weapons, procedures, switchology, etc. would be different.

    Ukraine mainly wants F-16 for the symbolic copium it provides so the details are irrelevant at this point.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,375
    HYUFD said:

    Sinn Fein up 9% on first preferences. DUP 3.6% down

    SDLP down 3.6% too, UUP down 3%. Alliance up 1.4% and TUV up 1.1.%
    Looks, cautiously, like a good result for pro Republic parties.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133
    viewcode said:

    ...Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack...are just a tad premature.

    I am one of those PBers but happy to debate the point. I am working on the assumption that i) historically Trump has reduced his Republican competitors to kneeling crybabies, and that ii) presently DeSantis has not energised the US public. Given that, I assume Trump will win the nom. Whence comes your conviction otherwise?

    "Presently"
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,990

    viewcode said:

    ...Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack...are just a tad premature.

    I am one of those PBers but happy to debate the point. I am working on the assumption that i) historically Trump has reduced his Republican competitors to kneeling crybabies, and that ii) presently DeSantis has not energised the US public. Given that, I assume Trump will win the nom. Whence comes your conviction otherwise?

    "Presently"
    Whence (from what place or source) not when.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,718
    viewcode said:

    ...Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack...are just a tad premature.

    I am one of those PBers but happy to debate the point. I am working on the assumption that i) historically Trump has reduced his Republican competitors to kneeling crybabies, and that ii) presently DeSantis has not energised the US public. Given that, I assume Trump will win the nom. Whence comes your conviction otherwise?

    I would put myself between you guys. My view is that Trump is the favourite (and rightly so), but if it's a two horse race very early in the primaries, then DeSantis has a good chance as the NotTrump candidate.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,090

    HYUFD said:

    Sinn Fein up 9% on first preferences. DUP 3.6% down

    SDLP down 3.6% too, UUP down 3%. Alliance up 1.4% and TUV up 1.1.%
    Looks, cautiously, like a good result for pro Republic parties.
    Most of the first declarations from Nationalist areas however and while a good result so far for SF a bad result so far the SDLP
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,237



    ..Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack on . . . wait for it . . . Mickey Mouse, are just a tad premature. . .

    If we waited until such predictions weren't premature, they would no longer be predictions.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,090
    edited May 2023
    CCHQ aims to root out 'narcissists' and 'lunatics' from new candidates added to the Tory parliamentary candidates approved list. 'The Tories are reportedly turning away from their traditional Parliamentary Assessment Board tests in favour of American-style psychometric testing, hoping to root out those candidates ill-suited to the pressures of being an MP.

    Financial checks are also being applied.

    CCHQ is also hoping to root out those candidates who only want to become MPs because of the attention and ‘celebrity’. Politico reports that hopeful candidates have been invited to answer ‘agree or disagree’ to questions such as “I really enjoy being the centre of attention” and “I’m always the first one to suggest a party.”

    (One could almost suggest it is an attempt by Rishi and Hands to root out future Boris Johnsons)
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1772267/CCHQ-Tory-candidate-vetting-improvements
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,718
    darkage said:

    Regarding 'Make America Florida'...
    DeSantis actually gets things done in his 'war on woke', taking control of universities, banning books in school etc.
    What does Trump actually do? Not very much - it is just a lot of hyperbole and talking.
    So he is appealing to become the republican nominee on the basis that he gets things done, and they would do well to nominate him, as not only does he get things done, he also doesn't have the off-putting baggage associated with Trump, the Jan 6 stuff, etc.
    DeSantis is more likely to win the election and more likely to actually get things delivered in the 'war on woke'
    I think that those on the 'left' should be terrified of DeSantis, but the reality is that the republicans will probably go with Trump.

    The Left would hate DeSantis for his policies. But, on the other hand, they would likely be relieved to have someone who seemed be on nodding acquaintance with the truth, and who appears to actually believe in the the Constitution.

    And, fwiw, I think DeSantis would wipe the floor with Biden... so long as Trump threw his weight behind him. (If Trump declined to support DeSantis after losing the nomination, then it would be a very different story.)

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,237
    edited May 2023
    darkage said:

    Regarding 'Make America Florida'...
    DeSantis actually gets things done in his 'war on woke', taking control of universities, banning books in school etc...

    Are those really populist measures ?
    I'm not even sure they appeal to a majority of the debased Republican base.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133
    this is for Leon, or rather for his lost love . . .

    Courthouse News Service - Kari Lake election challenge fizzles at second day of trial
    Attorneys for election denier Kari Lake provided no new evidence that mail-in ballot signature verification didn’t occur.

    Kari Lake, a former television-news anchor and failed Republican gubernatorial candidate in the 2022 Arizona elections, has been fighting in court to prove that the governor's race was stolen from her.

    The witnesses she called to testify on her behalf, though, did little to strengthen that case at trial.

    Rather than showing that Arizona did not verify signatures on 2022 mail-in ballots — the sole remaining claim in Lake's stolen-election case — multiple witnesses this week seemed to prove just the opposite. Lake's team has already rested its case, meaning they've presumably presented all available evidence of an allegedly stolen election. . . .

    Around 1.3 million Arizonans voted by mail in the 2022 state general elections, and more than 2.5 million people voted in total. Lake lost by roughly 17,000 votes. . . .

    In the first day of trial on Wednesday, Lake’s attorneys questioned two purported “whistleblowers” who worked for Maricopa County as signature verifiers in 2022. . . .

    However, when questioned at trial about their own experiences, both said they tried to verify signatures to the best of their abilities — throwing water on Lake's only claim, which they were ostensibly there to strengthen. . . .

    Going off a document that apparently summarized data on the keystrokes of 155 signature verifiers, [Lake's witness Erich] Speckin said there were at least 70,000 instances in which a signature verification determination was made in less than two seconds. . . .

    Arguing on behalf of the Arizona Secretary of State's Office, attorney Craig Morgan said it was unclear who produced the document, when it was produced or whether it even accurately summarized real data.

    On cross-examination, he also reminded the court that Speckin was called not as an expert on statistical or data analysis but on handwriting comparisons. . . .

    Meanwhile, Ray Valenzuela, Maricopa County elections director, said Speckin's data offered a misleading and incomplete picture.

    If the signature on a ballot clearly looks the same as one on file, it can absolutely take only "one to two seconds" to verify signatures, he said. State law doesn’t dictate how long the process should take.

    There were other cases, Valenzuela added, where this verification process could also take "less than a second" — including cases where the signature on the ballot had already been effectively verified. . . .

    Maricopa County Judge Peter Thompson, who is presiding over the case, complained that Lake's lawyers were asking government lawyers to make "quantum leaps in assumptions" about data that Lake's team had never fully explained. . . .

    https://www.courthousenews.com/kari-lake-election-challenge-fizzles-at-second-day-of-trial/
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,996
    Florida, in my experience, is incredibly flat, very easy to get lost in because it all looks the same and a bunch of malls and theme parks plus Miami. Is that really what he wants America to look like?
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,260
    HYUFD said:

    CCHQ aims to root out 'narcissists' and 'lunatics' from new candidates added to the Tory parliamentary candidates approved list. 'The Tories are reportedly turning away from their traditional Parliamentary Assessment Board tests in favour of American-style psychometric testing, hoping to root out those candidates ill-suited to the pressures of being an MP.

    Financial checks are also being applied.

    CCHQ is also hoping to root out those candidates who only want to become MPs because of the attention and ‘celebrity’. Politico reports that hopeful candidates have been invited to answer ‘agree or disagree’ to questions such as “I really enjoy being the centre of attention” and “I’m always the first one to suggest a party.”

    (One could almost suggest it is an attempt by Rishi and Hands to root out future Boris Johnson's)
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1772267/CCHQ-Tory-candidate-vetting-improvements

    Though if the questions are at that level of subtlety, it could be a very effective way of selecting for people who are good at saying what they know the questioner wants to hear.

    *Insert your own satirical barb here*
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,090
    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    Regarding 'Make America Florida'...
    DeSantis actually gets things done in his 'war on woke', taking control of universities, banning books in school etc.
    What does Trump actually do? Not very much - it is just a lot of hyperbole and talking.
    So he is appealing to become the republican nominee on the basis that he gets things done, and they would do well to nominate him, as not only does he get things done, he also doesn't have the off-putting baggage associated with Trump, the Jan 6 stuff, etc.
    DeSantis is more likely to win the election and more likely to actually get things delivered in the 'war on woke'
    I think that those on the 'left' should be terrified of DeSantis, but the reality is that the republicans will probably go with Trump.

    The Left would hate DeSantis for his policies. But, on the other hand, they would likely be relieved to have someone who seemed be on nodding acquaintance with the truth, and who appears to actually believe in the the Constitution.

    And, fwiw, I think DeSantis would wipe the floor with Biden... so long as Trump threw his weight behind him. (If Trump declined to support DeSantis after losing the nomination, then it would be a very different story.)

    Trump would run as an Independent if DeSantis won the nomination almost certainly.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,862
    DavidL said:

    Florida, in my experience, is incredibly flat, very easy to get lost in because it all looks the same and a bunch of malls and theme parks plus Miami. Is that really what he wants America to look like?

    I fount the Keys to be very lovely
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,876
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/

    Do I sniff the beginnings of a SAVE OUR BREXIT campaign theme from the Tories?
    I sniff desperation.

    Free Trade with the EU without unlimited uncontrolled European migration (i.e. we can insist on get a job you don't get benefits immedately) is what most Brexitters wanted.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,876
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    Regarding 'Make America Florida'...
    DeSantis actually gets things done in his 'war on woke', taking control of universities, banning books in school etc.
    What does Trump actually do? Not very much - it is just a lot of hyperbole and talking.
    So he is appealing to become the republican nominee on the basis that he gets things done, and they would do well to nominate him, as not only does he get things done, he also doesn't have the off-putting baggage associated with Trump, the Jan 6 stuff, etc.
    DeSantis is more likely to win the election and more likely to actually get things delivered in the 'war on woke'
    I think that those on the 'left' should be terrified of DeSantis, but the reality is that the republicans will probably go with Trump.

    The Left would hate DeSantis for his policies. But, on the other hand, they would likely be relieved to have someone who seemed be on nodding acquaintance with the truth, and who appears to actually believe in the the Constitution.

    And, fwiw, I think DeSantis would wipe the floor with Biden... so long as Trump threw his weight behind him. (If Trump declined to support DeSantis after losing the nomination, then it would be a very different story.)

    Trump would run as an Independent if DeSantis won the nomination almost certainly.
    The perfect result for Democrats - the two right wing candidates fight over rightwing issues leaving the Democrats to collect the saner middle ground - who will be in despair.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,237
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I haven't been banned, I am in Germany buying 993 Carrera RS Clubsport parts.

    FPT regarding F-16 wank...

    It takes 6-12 months to wing a Viper driver depending on the syllabus. But that assumes they are joining a squadron that already has a cadre of experienced operators. A squadron full of fucking nuggets stood around scratching their holes is not optimal.

    12 months for the crew chief who is needed to keep the fucking thing working.

    There is a hangar full of ex RNLAF F-16s in Belgium. Aircraft availability is not the problem here...

    Sunak is taking the piss with his offer to train Ukrainian pilots. The RAF training system has now collapsed to 50% of the intended throughput and that was far too skinny to start with. They are now sending British pilots to Canada and Italy for training.

    Is that for pilots with no previous fast jet experience or would it be different for pilots who have been flying MIG-29s?
    The ab-initio B course is almost a year once they have frigged around with language training and ground school.

    There are shorter courses for crew coming off other types and Fulcrum experience would help some but unlike somebody coming off another NATO type all of the weapons, procedures, switchology, etc. would be different.

    Ukraine mainly wants F-16 for the symbolic copium it provides so the details are irrelevant at this point.

    I thought they wanted it for its radar, and ability to launch AMRAAMs ?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,718
    edited May 2023

    this is for Leon, or rather for his lost love . . .

    Courthouse News Service - Kari Lake election challenge fizzles at second day of trial
    Attorneys for election denier Kari Lake provided no new evidence that mail-in ballot signature verification didn’t occur.

    Kari Lake, a former television-news anchor and failed Republican gubernatorial candidate in the 2022 Arizona elections, has been fighting in court to prove that the governor's race was stolen from her.

    The witnesses she called to testify on her behalf, though, did little to strengthen that case at trial.

    Rather than showing that Arizona did not verify signatures on 2022 mail-in ballots — the sole remaining claim in Lake's stolen-election case — multiple witnesses this week seemed to prove just the opposite. Lake's team has already rested its case, meaning they've presumably presented all available evidence of an allegedly stolen election. . . .

    Around 1.3 million Arizonans voted by mail in the 2022 state general elections, and more than 2.5 million people voted in total. Lake lost by roughly 17,000 votes. . . .

    In the first day of trial on Wednesday, Lake’s attorneys questioned two purported “whistleblowers” who worked for Maricopa County as signature verifiers in 2022. . . .

    However, when questioned at trial about their own experiences, both said they tried to verify signatures to the best of their abilities — throwing water on Lake's only claim, which they were ostensibly there to strengthen. . . .

    Going off a document that apparently summarized data on the keystrokes of 155 signature verifiers, [Lake's witness Erich] Speckin said there were at least 70,000 instances in which a signature verification determination was made in less than two seconds. . . .

    Arguing on behalf of the Arizona Secretary of State's Office, attorney Craig Morgan said it was unclear who produced the document, when it was produced or whether it even accurately summarized real data.

    On cross-examination, he also reminded the court that Speckin was called not as an expert on statistical or data analysis but on handwriting comparisons. . . .

    Meanwhile, Ray Valenzuela, Maricopa County elections director, said Speckin's data offered a misleading and incomplete picture.

    If the signature on a ballot clearly looks the same as one on file, it can absolutely take only "one to two seconds" to verify signatures, he said. State law doesn’t dictate how long the process should take.

    There were other cases, Valenzuela added, where this verification process could also take "less than a second" — including cases where the signature on the ballot had already been effectively verified. . . .

    Maricopa County Judge Peter Thompson, who is presiding over the case, complained that Lake's lawyers were asking government lawyers to make "quantum leaps in assumptions" about data that Lake's team had never fully explained. . . .

    https://www.courthousenews.com/kari-lake-election-challenge-fizzles-at-second-day-of-trial/

    If you follow Arizona-Nutter-Twitter, you will discover that yesterday was a triumph for Lake, as her lawyers demolished the cheating Dems so called "evidence".
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,621
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    ...Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack...are just a tad premature.

    I am one of those PBers but happy to debate the point. I am working on the assumption that i) historically Trump has reduced his Republican competitors to kneeling crybabies, and that ii) presently DeSantis has not energised the US public. Given that, I assume Trump will win the nom. Whence comes your conviction otherwise?

    I would put myself between you guys. My view is that Trump is the favourite (and rightly so), but if it's a two horse race very early in the primaries, then DeSantis has a good chance as the NotTrump candidate.
    It's an "on the one hand" prediction, isn't it... :)
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133
    For another perspective on Florida - DON'T DRAIN THE SWAMP!

    John Anderson - Seminole Wind
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpa4yzMbx9g

    Live version
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7WefhTdpwc
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,088
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    Regarding 'Make America Florida'...
    DeSantis actually gets things done in his 'war on woke', taking control of universities, banning books in school etc.
    What does Trump actually do? Not very much - it is just a lot of hyperbole and talking.
    So he is appealing to become the republican nominee on the basis that he gets things done, and they would do well to nominate him, as not only does he get things done, he also doesn't have the off-putting baggage associated with Trump, the Jan 6 stuff, etc.
    DeSantis is more likely to win the election and more likely to actually get things delivered in the 'war on woke'
    I think that those on the 'left' should be terrified of DeSantis, but the reality is that the republicans will probably go with Trump.

    The Left would hate DeSantis for his policies. But, on the other hand, they would likely be relieved to have someone who seemed be on nodding acquaintance with the truth, and who appears to actually believe in the the Constitution.

    And, fwiw, I think DeSantis would wipe the floor with Biden... so long as Trump threw his weight behind him. (If Trump declined to support DeSantis after losing the nomination, then it would be a very different story.)

    Trump would run as an Independent if DeSantis won the nomination almost certainly.
    The perfect result for Democrats - the two right wing candidates fight over rightwing issues leaving the Democrats to collect the saner middle ground - who will be in despair.
    The UK General Election in 2019 might be a counterpoint to that. The Tory civil war worked in their favour and enabled them to marginalise the middle ground and emerge victorious despite being split from top to bottom.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,621

    viewcode said:

    ...Would also add, that PBers currently writing off RDS as a busted flush, based on recent polling PLUS his Mickey Mouse attack...are just a tad premature.

    I am one of those PBers but happy to debate the point. I am working on the assumption that i) historically Trump has reduced his Republican competitors to kneeling crybabies, and that ii) presently DeSantis has not energised the US public. Given that, I assume Trump will win the nom. Whence comes your conviction otherwise?

    "Presently"
    Thank you.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,694
    DougSeal said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    The SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein could run on a combined slogan of 'Make Britain England' :wink:
    I don’t think that would change many folk’s instinctive certainty that Britain is England.
    No. England, Scotland and Wales make up the island of "Great Britain". Great Britain plus NI make the "United Kingdom". For someone who posts so extensively on the subject you'd think you might appreciate the basics of the nomenclature.
    You do know the meaning of ‘instinctive’? Though I suppose it can be as much part of a make it up as you go along constitution as anything else.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,358
    DavidL said:

    Florida, in my experience, is incredibly flat, very easy to get lost in because it all looks the same and a bunch of malls and theme parks plus Miami. Is that really what he wants America to look like?

    I visited Florida in the 1990s and liked it a lot. But it may not be the same now.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,128
    edited May 2023
    Presumably the slogan has been focus grouped to death?

    Remember, this is for the Primaries where the audience is primarily GOP members... There's probably an awareness within the Republican Party that Desantis is one of the few "successes" in recent GOP history so playing on that with the selectorate is probably a good idea...
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,260
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/

    Do I sniff the beginnings of a SAVE OUR BREXIT campaign theme from the Tories?
    I sniff desperation.

    Free Trade with the EU without unlimited uncontrolled European migration (i.e. we can insist on get a job you don't get benefits immedately) is what most Brexitters wanted.
    I think you're right, and I suspect that many Remainers would be reasonably unbothered if that's the next landing point. After all, from the point of view of day to day living, it restores a lot of the things people liked about EU membership, and positive EU love was and is a niche thing in the UK.

    However, two groups of people would utterly hate it. The first would be those who see Britain's future in corner-cutting, becuase the quid-pro-quo would be hassle free access to the EU market by following EU rules. The second are those who see their future as powerful men (and women) in charge of a powerful free nation. Conservative MPs, in other words. The UK wouldn't be given a list of requirements and be told to swallow them all... just most of them. The "pay, obey, limited say" thing works if you are Norway or Switzerland and you know what specific sectors you are protecting from EU encroachment by following the rules on everything else. Much harder if you don't, and I don't think the UK does.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,876

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    Regarding 'Make America Florida'...
    DeSantis actually gets things done in his 'war on woke', taking control of universities, banning books in school etc.
    What does Trump actually do? Not very much - it is just a lot of hyperbole and talking.
    So he is appealing to become the republican nominee on the basis that he gets things done, and they would do well to nominate him, as not only does he get things done, he also doesn't have the off-putting baggage associated with Trump, the Jan 6 stuff, etc.
    DeSantis is more likely to win the election and more likely to actually get things delivered in the 'war on woke'
    I think that those on the 'left' should be terrified of DeSantis, but the reality is that the republicans will probably go with Trump.

    The Left would hate DeSantis for his policies. But, on the other hand, they would likely be relieved to have someone who seemed be on nodding acquaintance with the truth, and who appears to actually believe in the the Constitution.

    And, fwiw, I think DeSantis would wipe the floor with Biden... so long as Trump threw his weight behind him. (If Trump declined to support DeSantis after losing the nomination, then it would be a very different story.)

    Trump would run as an Independent if DeSantis won the nomination almost certainly.
    The perfect result for Democrats - the two right wing candidates fight over rightwing issues leaving the Democrats to collect the saner middle ground - who will be in despair.
    The UK General Election in 2019 might be a counterpoint to that. The Tory civil war worked in their favour and enabled them to marginalise the middle ground and emerge victorious despite being split from top to bottom.
    Not really the option was Bozo v Corbyn and most people were willing to accept a Bozo aiming to finish Brexit to a Corbyn who they were scared off.

    Heck I only voted for our Labour candidate because I've met Bozo and wouldn't call him fit for running a branch of a chain wine bar let alone the country.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,260

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    Regarding 'Make America Florida'...
    DeSantis actually gets things done in his 'war on woke', taking control of universities, banning books in school etc.
    What does Trump actually do? Not very much - it is just a lot of hyperbole and talking.
    So he is appealing to become the republican nominee on the basis that he gets things done, and they would do well to nominate him, as not only does he get things done, he also doesn't have the off-putting baggage associated with Trump, the Jan 6 stuff, etc.
    DeSantis is more likely to win the election and more likely to actually get things delivered in the 'war on woke'
    I think that those on the 'left' should be terrified of DeSantis, but the reality is that the republicans will probably go with Trump.

    The Left would hate DeSantis for his policies. But, on the other hand, they would likely be relieved to have someone who seemed be on nodding acquaintance with the truth, and who appears to actually believe in the the Constitution.

    And, fwiw, I think DeSantis would wipe the floor with Biden... so long as Trump threw his weight behind him. (If Trump declined to support DeSantis after losing the nomination, then it would be a very different story.)

    Trump would run as an Independent if DeSantis won the nomination almost certainly.
    The perfect result for Democrats - the two right wing candidates fight over rightwing issues leaving the Democrats to collect the saner middle ground - who will be in despair.
    The UK General Election in 2019 might be a counterpoint to that. The Tory civil war worked in their favour and enabled them to marginalise the middle ground and emerge victorious despite being split from top to bottom.
    All the Republicans would have to do is get Jeremy Corbyn to be the Democrat nominee.
  • Options
    I thought Single Transferable vote would have encouraged a greater number of candidates. What's the slogan about no wasted votes?

    Yet, the BBC report "a total of 807 people are competing for 462 seats in council chambers across Northern Ireland". At fewer than 2 candidates per seat that seems somewhat sparse a choice. Anyone want to suggest an explanation? Is it to do with NI's unique political geography?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,621

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Trump would run as an Independent if DeSantis won the nomination almost certainly.

    The perfect result for Democrats - the two right wing candidates fight over rightwing issues leaving the Democrats to collect the saner middle ground - who will be in despair.
    The UK General Election in 2019 might be a counterpoint to that. The Tory civil war worked in their favour....
    The Tory Civil War was well over by the election. Boris/Dom/whoever had expelled all the dissenters and was running a full clean slate of Leavers sans peur et sans reproche. BidenDem/DeSantisRep/TrumpInd would be a distaff 1968 . Biden would win by a canter.

  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133
    GIN1138 said:

    Presumably the slogan has been focus grouped to death?

    Remember, this is for the Primaries where the audience is primarily GOP members... There's probably an awareness within the Republican Party that Desantis is one of the few "successes" in recent GOP history so playing on that with the selectorate is probably a good idea...

    "Make America Florida" is a merchandizing gimmick NOT a final, national, over-riding campaign slogan.

    Aimed at rightwing nutbags NOT the general electorate.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,599
    edited May 2023
    Well, considering the growth of the Florida population in recent decades, I think it fair to say that millions of Americans like the idea of becoming Florida*. It's still a lousy slogan.

    One reason is the improvement in schools under Jeb Bush: The graphs here will surprise many of you: https://apps.urban.org/features/naep/

    The data on reading improvements in Mississippi startled me, so I searched for explanations and found two:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/06/education/learning/mississippi-schools-literacy.html
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2023/05/17/reading-scores-phonics-mississippi-alabama-louisiana/6b096d72-f468-11ed-918d-012572d64930_story.html

    From the second:
    "Mississippi went from being ranked the second-worst state in 2013 for fourth-grade reading to 21st in 2022. Louisiana and Alabama, meanwhile, were among only three states to see modest gains in fourth-grade reading during the pandemic, which saw massive learning setbacks in most other states.

    These Deep South states were not the first to pass major literacy laws; in fact, much of Mississippi’s legislation was based on a 2002 law in Florida that saw the Sunshine State achieve some of the country’s highest reading scores. The states also still have far to go to make sure every child can read."

    (*I'm not one of them, preferring hiking in the mountains and cross country skiing to lying on a beach, or even surfing.)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,494
    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    Florida, in my experience, is incredibly flat, very easy to get lost in because it all looks the same and a bunch of malls and theme parks plus Miami. Is that really what he wants America to look like?

    I visited Florida in the 1990s and liked it a lot. But it may not be the same now.
    we had extended trip in Florida in 88 on way home from California , was not keen on Miami but went to Keys etc and it was wonderful , not very developed or crowded which I doubt is the case now. Key West was lovely , food excellent, all round superb. Sanibel Island on west coast was gorgeous as well and loved doing the Air boats in the Everglades.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245
    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    London generally. And from what I see most other cities. Cash is utterly pointless in day to day use. I wouldn't ban it. It could potentially play its part in a cyberattack apocalypse. But hauling around silly bits of paper and a pockets full of near-worthless metal is stupid. There is no need, hence why, increasingly, people avoid doing so.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,128
    edited May 2023

    GIN1138 said:

    Presumably the slogan has been focus grouped to death?

    Remember, this is for the Primaries where the audience is primarily GOP members... There's probably an awareness within the Republican Party that Desantis is one of the few "successes" in recent GOP history so playing on that with the selectorate is probably a good idea...

    Aimed at rightwing nutbags
    Isn't that the majority of the Republican Party?
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,499
    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    "Florida Man" is a shorthand for an eccentric that will do strange and silly/bad things. So if a man tries to cross a river with two boats attached to his feet or drive a car with a trained dog, an American will go "Florida, huh". It usually has a poverty/illegal tinge that doesn't come across in my analogies, but you get the point. It's the equivalent of "Make Britain Shameless" or "Make Britain Norfolk".

    It's not the slogan I would have picked.
    The closest thing to to Florida Man in the UK is probably Teesside Man. Make Britain Boro!
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,301
    edited May 2023

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/

    Do I sniff the beginnings of a SAVE OUR BREXIT campaign theme from the Tories?
    I sniff desperation.

    Free Trade with the EU without unlimited uncontrolled European migration (i.e. we can insist on get a job you don't get benefits immedately) is what most Brexitters wanted.
    I think you're right, and I suspect that many Remainers would be reasonably unbothered if that's the next landing point. After all, from the point of view of day to day living, it restores a lot of the things people liked about EU membership, and positive EU love was and is a niche thing in the UK.

    However, two groups of people would utterly hate it. The first would be those who see Britain's future in corner-cutting, becuase the quid-pro-quo would be hassle free access to the EU market by following EU rules. The second are those who see their future as powerful men (and women) in charge of a powerful free nation. Conservative MPs, in other words. The UK wouldn't be given a list of requirements and be told to swallow them all... just most of them. The "pay, obey, limited say" thing works if you are Norway or Switzerland and you know what specific sectors you are protecting from EU encroachment by following the rules on everything else. Much harder if you don't, and I don't think the UK does.
    Except of course "pay, obey, limited say" is a myth. Unless of course you are actually a member of the EU in which case it is a reality under QMV
  • Options
    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,518
    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    "Florida Man" is a shorthand for an eccentric that will do strange and silly/bad things. So if a man tries to cross a river with two boats attached to his feet or drive a car with a trained dog, an American will go "Florida, huh". It usually has a poverty/illegal tinge that doesn't come across in my analogies, but you get the point. It's the equivalent of "Make Britain Shameless" or "Make Britain Norfolk".

    It's not the slogan I would have picked.
    The closest thing to to Florida Man in the UK is probably Teesside Man. Make Britain Boro!
    'Be more Norfolk'?
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,499
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    Carole getting desperate:

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1659491627382054914

    Carole Cadwalladr @carolecadwalla
    I would be really grateful if @guardian @ObserverUK & @TEDTalks made a comment on this ruling. Any comment.

    It has huge ramifications for UK journalism. And some basic solidarity from the organisations who published the work would go a long way.

    Thank you.

    Surely removing Carole Cadwalladr from journalism would improve the overall standards of the profession. Who else should be removed? Peston? Katie Hopkins? Any others?
    I wouldn't complain too much if Giles Coren were to limit himself to restaurant reviews.
    Even though I'm Of The Left (and probably more radical than him in some ways), Owen Jones doesn't half wind me up.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,494
    Magic , How to get rid of annoying Greens
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1659576410837512192
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Cash is still the primary means of payment (and store of value) for unbanked people with a low income and helps avoiding debt traps due to uncontrolled spending of money. It supports anonymity and avoids tracking for economic or political reasons.[29] In addition, cash is the only means for contingency planning in order to mitigate risks in case of natural disasters or failures of the technical infrastructure like a large-scale power blackout or shutdown of the communication network.[30] Therefore, central banks and governments are increasingly driving the sufficient availability of cash. The US Federal Reserve has provided guidelines for the continuity of cash services,[31] and the Swedish government is concerned about the consequences in abandoning cash and is considering to pass a law requiring all banks to handle cash.[32]


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash
    That first sentence is stating the obvious.
    Not to @Anabobazina it's not :)
    There are plenty of products out there for the unbanked – indeed 'electronic cash' cards are relatively commonplace in the US. The idea that we will continue lugging around daft bits of paper and shards of worthless metal in any sort of volume in the next couple of decades is for the birds.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,120

    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    "Florida Man" is a shorthand for an eccentric that will do strange and silly/bad things. So if a man tries to cross a river with two boats attached to his feet or drive a car with a trained dog, an American will go "Florida, huh". It usually has a poverty/illegal tinge that doesn't come across in my analogies, but you get the point. It's the equivalent of "Make Britain Shameless" or "Make Britain Norfolk".

    It's not the slogan I would have picked.
    The closest thing to to Florida Man in the UK is probably Teesside Man. Make Britain Boro!
    'Be more Norfolk'?
    Largely bog standard in character, with mild nature and dry sense of humour?
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,301

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    London generally. And from what I see most other cities. Cash is utterly pointless in day to day use. I wouldn't ban it. It could potentially play its part in a cyberattack apocalypse. But hauling around silly bits of paper and a pockets full of near-worthless metal is stupid. There is no need, hence why, increasingly, people avoid doing so.
    I make a point of actively avoiding any shops, restaurants etc who don't take both cash and cards. If they are not willing to provide a reasonable level of service for all their customers then I am not willing to support them.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,980

    I thought Single Transferable vote would have encouraged a greater number of candidates. What's the slogan about no wasted votes?

    Yet, the BBC report "a total of 807 people are competing for 462 seats in council chambers across Northern Ireland". At fewer than 2 candidates per seat that seems somewhat sparse a choice. Anyone want to suggest an explanation? Is it to do with NI's unique political geography?

    I imagine it has a lot to do with likely strengths being pretty well known in multi-member wards with STV.

    So, in a 6 seat ward, SF might not put up more than 2, if they think they'll win 1 seat or 2 at a stretch. Likewise, if the DUP is likely to get 3 of those seats, they'll likely only put up 4 candidates.

    I think those low multipliers, i.e. candidates per existing councillor, for the main parties in particular, drives a lower number of candidates overall.

  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,499

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    London generally. And from what I see most other cities. Cash is utterly pointless in day to day use. I wouldn't ban it. It could potentially play its part in a cyberattack apocalypse. But hauling around silly bits of paper and a pockets full of near-worthless metal is stupid. There is no need, hence why, increasingly, people avoid doing so.
    I make a point of actively avoiding any shops, restaurants etc who don't take both cash and cards. If they are not willing to provide a reasonable level of service for all their customers then I am not willing to support them.
    You'd struggle down here. Wouldn't be able to catch a bus, for starters.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,862

    DougSeal said:

    Selebian said:

    On topic, I know how Sunak wins the next general election.

    Make the Tory election slogan ‘Make Britain Yorkshire’

    Con gain Bootle and all the Glasgow seats.

    The SNP, Plaid Cymru and Sinn Fein could run on a combined slogan of 'Make Britain England' :wink:
    I don’t think that would change many folk’s instinctive certainty that Britain is England.
    No. England, Scotland and Wales make up the island of "Great Britain". Great Britain plus NI make the "United Kingdom". For someone who posts so extensively on the subject you'd think you might appreciate the basics of the nomenclature.
    You do know the meaning of ‘instinctive’? Though I suppose it can be as much part of a make it up as you go along constitution as anything else.
    Yes, it means prompted by instinct AFAIU. What a weird question.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133
    What UKers may be missing, is the fact that in the American national psyche "Florida" conjures up strong mental images and emotional signals that are NOT at all what Englanders (Big or Little) feel in relation to "Teeside" or "Norfolk".

    To Americans, Florida = fun in the sun, endless summer, frolicking on the beach, etc., etc.

    Even as the Sunshine State has morphed from "Flipper" to "Miami Vice"!

    Only other US state that has similar psychological impact upon US is . . . wait for it . . . California.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,368

    Ghedebrav said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:

    "Make America Florida" will go down as well as "Make Britain Cornwall" would.

    "Florida Man" is a shorthand for an eccentric that will do strange and silly/bad things. So if a man tries to cross a river with two boats attached to his feet or drive a car with a trained dog, an American will go "Florida, huh". It usually has a poverty/illegal tinge that doesn't come across in my analogies, but you get the point. It's the equivalent of "Make Britain Shameless" or "Make Britain Norfolk".

    It's not the slogan I would have picked.
    The closest thing to to Florida Man in the UK is probably Teesside Man. Make Britain Boro!
    'Be more Norfolk'?
    3 thumbs up !!!
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,301

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    London generally. And from what I see most other cities. Cash is utterly pointless in day to day use. I wouldn't ban it. It could potentially play its part in a cyberattack apocalypse. But hauling around silly bits of paper and a pockets full of near-worthless metal is stupid. There is no need, hence why, increasingly, people avoid doing so.
    I make a point of actively avoiding any shops, restaurants etc who don't take both cash and cards. If they are not willing to provide a reasonable level of service for all their customers then I am not willing to support them.
    You'd struggle down here. Wouldn't be able to catch a bus, for starters.
    I wouldn't struggle at all. The number of establishments not taking cash is vanishingly small in the grand scheme of things.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,914
    malcolmg said:

    Magic , How to get rid of annoying Greens
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1659576410837512192

    Which miserable bugger off-topicked this?
    He was a hero, though ultimately unsuccessful. You can't clear out ten people on your own unless you're Knollsy.
    You need three or four at least, plus a large net.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245
    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,914

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    "Not a single person" had a pound coin?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133
    malcolmg said:

    Magic , How to get rid of annoying Greens
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1659576410837512192

    So you advocate violence?
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245
    edited May 2023
    Every time this cash debate comes up on PB I get people telling me that living without cash is impossible because of the need to use it for a, b, c...

    I haven't used cash for five years and very little for ten years, so I know what I am talking about.

    Again, I never use cash. I never need cash. If you need to pay someone you can just transfer it.

    It really is that simple.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,494
    Cookie said:

    malcolmg said:

    Magic , How to get rid of annoying Greens
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1659576410837512192

    Which miserable bugger off-topicked this?
    He was a hero, though ultimately unsuccessful. You can't clear out ten people on your own unless you're Knollsy.
    You need three or four at least, plus a large net.
    Miserable git indeed, someone who needs to get a life for sure.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,301

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    And the 14 million* people who have very limited or no access to online services? How do they do that?

    Stat from the Digital Poverty lady being interviewed by v the BBC yesterday.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,914
    Anyway, on thread - I think the slogan is quite good.
    But I hate the font. It reminds me of the Hundred.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    And the 14 million* people who have very limited or no access to online services? How do they do that?

    Stat from the Digital Poverty lady being interviewed by v the BBC yesterday.
    See above – 'electronic cash' cards are relatively commonplace in the US – several providers offer them.

    You have to ask yourself whether we are really going to be lugging silly scraps of paper and near-worthless shards of metal around with us in ten years?

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245
    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    "Not a single person" had a pound coin?
    Not when I was in the changing room (and there were a few blokes in there). I'm sure at some point in the history of the spa someone might have had one on them.
  • Options
    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    I used cash yesterday. Some of my other anecdotes are available for a reasonable fee should one wish to book me.
    If I look in my wallet I have no UK notes. However I still have some notes from my holidays over the past 12 months.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    London generally. And from what I see most other cities. Cash is utterly pointless in day to day use. I wouldn't ban it. It could potentially play its part in a cyberattack apocalypse. But hauling around silly bits of paper and a pockets full of near-worthless metal is stupid. There is no need, hence why, increasingly, people avoid doing so.
    I make a point of actively avoiding any shops, restaurants etc who don't take both cash and cards. If they are not willing to provide a reasonable level of service for all their customers then I am not willing to support them.
    You'd struggle down here. Wouldn't be able to catch a bus, for starters.
    I wouldn't struggle at all. The number of establishments not taking cash is vanishingly small in the grand scheme of things.
    Well the entire bus network (daily ridership approx THREE MILLION) doesn't take cash...
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,301

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    And the 14 million* people who have very limited or no access to online services? How do they do that?

    Stat from the Digital Poverty lady being interviewed by v the BBC yesterday.
    See above – 'electronic cash' cards are relatively commonplace in the US – several providers offer them.

    You have to ask yourself whether we are really going to be lugging silly scraps of paper and near-worthless shards of metal around with us in ten years?

    Yes we are. Without any doubt at all. Not because most of us don't use them and enjoy the convenience but because there are still millions of people for whom it is not and will not be convenient.

    And how does an 'electronic cash card' help if you have no online access. Do you send your kid to school with it?

    This 'I'm alright jack' attitude is extremely unbecoming.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,862

    What UKers may be missing, is the fact that in the American national psyche "Florida" conjures up strong mental images and emotional signals that are NOT at all what Englanders (Big or Little) feel in relation to "Teeside" or "Norfolk".

    To Americans, Florida = fun in the sun, endless summer, frolicking on the beach, etc., etc.

    Even as the Sunshine State has morphed from "Flipper" to "Miami Vice"!

    Only other US state that has similar psychological impact upon US is . . . wait for it . . . California.

    So it's like Devon or Cornwall. What's the Floridian view on the "jam or cream first" debate? That's the only way to settle it.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,301

    Every time this cash debate comes up on PB I get people telling me that living without cash is impossible because of the need to use it for a, b, c...

    I haven't used cash for five years and very little for ten years, so I know what I am talking about.

    Again, I never use cash. I never need cash. If you need to pay someone you can just transfer it.

    It really is that simple.

    And you are one person - and one extreme example - out of millions. To extrapolate your very unusual and limited experience to the rest of the world is stunningly ignorant.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,301

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    London generally. And from what I see most other cities. Cash is utterly pointless in day to day use. I wouldn't ban it. It could potentially play its part in a cyberattack apocalypse. But hauling around silly bits of paper and a pockets full of near-worthless metal is stupid. There is no need, hence why, increasingly, people avoid doing so.
    I make a point of actively avoiding any shops, restaurants etc who don't take both cash and cards. If they are not willing to provide a reasonable level of service for all their customers then I am not willing to support them.
    You'd struggle down here. Wouldn't be able to catch a bus, for starters.
    I wouldn't struggle at all. The number of establishments not taking cash is vanishingly small in the grand scheme of things.
    Well the entire bus network (daily ridership approx THREE MILLION) doesn't take cash...
    1. I don't take the bus
    2. I said shops and restaurants. Not seen any London buses serving food recently.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    And the 14 million* people who have very limited or no access to online services? How do they do that?

    Stat from the Digital Poverty lady being interviewed by v the BBC yesterday.
    See above – 'electronic cash' cards are relatively commonplace in the US – several providers offer them.

    You have to ask yourself whether we are really going to be lugging silly scraps of paper and near-worthless shards of metal around with us in ten years?

    Unless you are talking about a regular bank debit card, the "electronic cash" cards are a fucking ripoff, as I found out several months ago.

    Easy to pooh pooh when overstating benefits and understating downsides of cashlessness.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,494

    malcolmg said:

    Magic , How to get rid of annoying Greens
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1659576410837512192

    So you advocate violence?
    I advocate not allowing twats to block the queen's highway and deny the majority of people's rights. They could stand at side of the road with their banners or maybe go and get a job and not stop people doing their jobs.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133
    edited May 2023
    DougSeal said:

    What UKers may be missing, is the fact that in the American national psyche "Florida" conjures up strong mental images and emotional signals that are NOT at all what Englanders (Big or Little) feel in relation to "Teeside" or "Norfolk".

    To Americans, Florida = fun in the sun, endless summer, frolicking on the beach, etc., etc.

    Even as the Sunshine State has morphed from "Flipper" to "Miami Vice"!

    Only other US state that has similar psychological impact upon US is . . . wait for it . . . California.

    So it's like Devon or Cornwall. What's the Floridian view on the "jam or cream first" debate? That's the only way to settle it.
    No, Florida for Americans is NOT what Devon or Cornwall are for Britons. Not even close.

    Perhaps UK equivalent is Costa del Sol? Certainly NO place in the UK.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,494

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    How do you help homeless beggars, Big Issue sellers etc.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,980
    Pro_Rata said:

    I thought Single Transferable vote would have encouraged a greater number of candidates. What's the slogan about no wasted votes?

    Yet, the BBC report "a total of 807 people are competing for 462 seats in council chambers across Northern Ireland". At fewer than 2 candidates per seat that seems somewhat sparse a choice. Anyone want to suggest an explanation? Is it to do with NI's unique political geography?

    I imagine it has a lot to do with likely strengths being pretty well known in multi-member wards with STV.

    So, in a 6 seat ward, SF might not put up more than 2, if they think they'll win 1 seat or 2 at a stretch. Likewise, if the DUP is likely to get 3 of those seats, they'll likely only put up 4 candidates.

    I think those low multipliers, i.e. candidates per existing councillor, for the main parties in particular, drives a lower number of candidates overall.

    I think the NI assembly elections are instructive in this regard:

    DUP stood 30 candidates for 90 seats and got 25 elected.
    SF stood 34 candidates and got 27 elected
    Alliance 17/24 candidates returned
    UUP 9/26 candidates returned
    SDLP 8/22 candidates returned

    It was only the extensive presence of smaller parties beyond these in every constituency that bolstered the candidates/seats ratio.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,408

    HYUFD said:

    Starmer to relax EU trade barriers within 18 months of becoming PM and rejoin Dublin refugee agreement and sign an EU security pact
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/05/18/keir-starmer-labour-eu-trade-brexit-election/

    Labour have just lost the General Election. Thrown it away. Winner Sunak now on course for 92 redux for the Tories.

    Unless Telegraph is making it up.

    What cost Labour the May 2024 General Election, was hubris from doing okay at 2023 locals and double digit polling leads so they felt it was in the bag.

    Labour of all parties should have appreciated, never count your chickens until they have hatched.
    Sunak is already trying to negotiate enhanced security co-operation with the EU and the Dublin agreement helps return failed asylum seekers . Relaxing trade barriers is common sense given a clear majority think Brexit has been a disaster .

    Not sure why exactly you think this is an election loser .
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    And the 14 million* people who have very limited or no access to online services? How do they do that?

    Stat from the Digital Poverty lady being interviewed by v the BBC yesterday.
    See above – 'electronic cash' cards are relatively commonplace in the US – several providers offer them.

    You have to ask yourself whether we are really going to be lugging silly scraps of paper and near-worthless shards of metal around with us in ten years?

    Yes we are. Without any doubt at all. Not because most of us don't use them and enjoy the convenience but because there are still millions of people for whom it is not and will not be convenient.

    And how does an 'electronic cash card' help if you have no online access. Do you send your kid to school with it?

    This 'I'm alright jack' attitude is extremely unbecoming.
    You don't need any online access for a electronic prepaid 'cash' card – that's the whole point of them!

    And yes, you can send a child to school with one – just as millions of children already have cards to pay for their lunch etc...

    https://in-prepaid.com/how-do-prepaid-cards-help-the-unbanked/
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,914
    malcolmg said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    How do you help homeless beggars, Big Issue sellers etc.
    And what does the tooth fairy bring in yiur house?!
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245
    edited May 2023

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    And the 14 million* people who have very limited or no access to online services? How do they do that?

    Stat from the Digital Poverty lady being interviewed by v the BBC yesterday.
    See above – 'electronic cash' cards are relatively commonplace in the US – several providers offer them.

    You have to ask yourself whether we are really going to be lugging silly scraps of paper and near-worthless shards of metal around with us in ten years?

    Unless you are talking about a regular bank debit card, the "electronic cash" cards are a fucking ripoff, as I found out several months ago.

    Easy to pooh pooh when overstating benefits and understating downsides of cashlessness.
    There are quite a few that have no charges according to this...

    https://www.money.co.uk/prepaid-cards
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    London generally. And from what I see most other cities. Cash is utterly pointless in day to day use. I wouldn't ban it. It could potentially play its part in a cyberattack apocalypse. But hauling around silly bits of paper and a pockets full of near-worthless metal is stupid. There is no need, hence why, increasingly, people avoid doing so.
    I make a point of actively avoiding any shops, restaurants etc who don't take both cash and cards. If they are not willing to provide a reasonable level of service for all their customers then I am not willing to support them.
    You'd struggle down here. Wouldn't be able to catch a bus, for starters.
    I wouldn't struggle at all. The number of establishments not taking cash is vanishingly small in the grand scheme of things.
    Well the entire bus network (daily ridership approx THREE MILLION) doesn't take cash...
    I don't take the bus
    Would you refuse to take a London bus because they don't accept cash?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,494

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    "Not a single person" had a pound coin?
    Not when I was in the changing room (and there were a few blokes in there). I'm sure at some point in the history of the spa someone might have had one on them.
    I always carry at least one pound coin for just such an occasion , especially supermarkets. Most coins I keep in tins at home but always have a sheaf of £20 notes in my pocket in case of emergency. Of a generation who baulk at using a card for 50p or a quid etc, makes you look like a loser big time.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,133

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    And the 14 million* people who have very limited or no access to online services? How do they do that?

    Stat from the Digital Poverty lady being interviewed by v the BBC yesterday.
    See above – 'electronic cash' cards are relatively commonplace in the US – several providers offer them.

    You have to ask yourself whether we are really going to be lugging silly scraps of paper and near-worthless shards of metal around with us in ten years?

    Unless you are talking about a regular bank debit card, the "electronic cash" cards are a fucking ripoff, as I found out several months ago.

    Easy to pooh pooh when overstating benefits and understating downsides of cashlessness.
    There are quite a few that have no charges according to this...

    https://www.money.co.uk/prepaid-cards
    Yeah, that's what they told me - load of crap.
  • Options
    jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 704
    Just a reminder that

    1. In 538's polling average for the Republican primary:
    Trump: 53%
    DeSantis: 21%
    All others under 6%

    2. DeSantis was at 30% on March 1st and has fallen continuously since.

    3. Everyone who meets Ron, hates him. When he was a congressmen, the other Representatives hated him, including the Republicans. As a governor, the Republican Governors' Association hate him. His staff hate him (see the leaks, especially the chocolate pudding story). The public who meet him, hate him

    4. Endorsements. Trump has 11 Senators, DeSantis 0. Trump has 53 Representatives, DeSantis has 4. Trump has 2 governors, DeSantis has 0.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,568

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Maintaining a pool area is very expensive - water vapour, heat and chlorine are a good way to erode everything...
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,499

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    I'm not saying that's not your experience. I'm saying that your experience is not universal.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,245

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    Reply to @kinabalu FPT

    I don't actually believe in abolishing it – that was a shocking misquote by this site's Mr Perma-Angry (Pagan2).

    I just think it's pointless, slow and a massive faff.

    I never use it for anything at all, and if a shop insists on it I assume they are on the dodge and don't visit them again. Why people persist in it is beyond me – it is, as far as I can ascertain, an utter waste of time and resources.

    (I recall on this site when some royal-botherer was frapping on about the new King Charles 50p coin – he asked whether I'd see it. I said no I hadn't, but then I hadn't see any 50p coin of any design or era for about ten years...)

    Well a whole new set of coins with the King's head on have been announced today

    https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/4353525

    May the force be worth you and long live the Emperor...
    Great, more wasteful shrapnel that is almost worthless.

    What is the bloody point of it?
    Any coins you don't want, feel free to send my way.
    I don't have any ever, so you'll be waiting until the 12th of Never.

    I haven't even set eyes on most denominations for several years – for the simple reason that neither me nor virtually anyone else down here ever seems to use them!
    Down here being Hoxton I assume. 😊
    Much of London runs cashless - as an option. As does Hamburg - was there 2 weeks ago.

    There are occasional small stores with a minimum spend.

    I keep a couple of pound coins in my pocket. Mostly get used in supermarket trolleys…
    I went to a swimming pool / spa / gym the other day in a hotel just outside London. The hotel itself was very nice but the pool / spa had seen better days. The lockers required a pound coin – which not a single person there had. So everyone took their stuff out into the pool area wrapped in a towel. Cash is dead.
    Incomplete evidence fallacy though.

    I still use cash myself. Mostly card, but still - sometimes cash. And anyone with primary age kids knows you need a drawer-full of pound coins and fifty-pees for the various random stuff you end up having to pay for.
    My son is just out of primary school (two years). Haven't used cash for nearly ten years. I just use a bank app to cash transfer peer-to-peer (including schools). Takes two minutes.
    I used cash yesterday. Some of my other anecdotes are available for a reasonable fee should one wish to book me.
    If I look in my wallet I have no UK notes. However I still have some notes from my holidays over the past 12 months.
    That right there is another big flaw with cash – latency. Money unspent in foreign currency that you could have in your current account.

    I have been to France, Spain, Austria and the US in the last few years. I have never needed cash in any other them. I did withdraw €10 because I assumed the bus in Spain would require cash. The driver looked at me like I was mad and pointed to a sign that revealed it was 30% cheaper to pay by card...
This discussion has been closed.