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LAB’s Opinium voting lead over CON now 18% – up 4 – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited April 2023

    HYUFD said:



    So more 2019 LD voters are going Conservative than 2019 Conservative voters are going LD, some good news for Tories fighting LDs on Thursday even if a tougher prospect for Tories fighting Labour

    Not really, it's 4% of a smaller number vs 3% of a larger number - pretty even trade, isn't it? Both are losing net votes to Labour.
    Yes but if you are a Tory councillor or candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second then votes going to Labour are not a problem if you make net gains from the LDs
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    So more 2019 LD voters are going Conservative than 2019 Conservative voters are going LD, some good news for Tories fighting LDs on Thursday even if a tougher prospect for Tories fighting Labour

    Not really, it's 4% of a smaller number vs 3% of a larger number - pretty even trade, isn't it? Both are losing net votes to Labour.
    Yes but if you are a Tory councillor or candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second then votes going to Labour are not a problem as long as you make net gains from the LDs
    Unless analysing the national polls doesn’t warn how fluid Lab and Lib votes will be where the voter knows how much anti Tory fun they could have with them?

    You surely want the National LLG totals to be so much lower than 60%?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789

    viewcode said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    I'm honestly a little bit shocked and disappointed.
    In the request or my comment about my wife and I ?
    In the comment. Of all the people I would have expected to do so, you would have been near the top (I don't know your wife well enough to comment). Is there a conscious reason or just by instinct? You don't have to answer if you don't want to (it's your business after all)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    So more 2019 LD voters are going Conservative than 2019 Conservative voters are going LD, some good news for Tories fighting LDs on Thursday even if a tougher prospect for Tories fighting Labour

    Not really, it's 4% of a smaller number vs 3% of a larger number - pretty even trade, isn't it? Both are losing net votes to Labour.
    Yes but if you are a Tory councillor or candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second then votes going to Labour are not a problem as long as you make net gains from the LDs
    Unless analysing the national polls doesn’t warn how fluid Lab and Lib votes will be where the voter knows how much anti Tory fun they could have with them?

    You surely want the National LLG totals to be so much lower than 60%?
    In May 2019 the Tories got 28% NEV, little different to now, however there has been swing from LDs to Tories since then, even if a bigger swing from Tories to Labour.

    So as I said if you are a local council candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second the current situation is better for you than in May 2019 when the LDs got 19% NEV, even if much worse for you in a Tory held seat where Labour are second than it would have been in May 2019 when Labour also got only 28% NEV and are now polling over 40%
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    I did mention Biden to my non US political sounding board of a relative. They said he had dementia, but it was framed as a question, so thats a positive. No Trump fan but never heard of DeSantis.

    The people who fascinate me are the genuine undecideds in America itself. Since campaigning never seems to stop how many are totally disengaged until a presidential election?

    Reagan definitely had dementia. It didn't do him any political harm.
    I think the consensus is that he was demented in the latter half of term two, and that prior to that it could be overlooked as the forgetfulness of old age.
    Yeah, we are only two years into Biden’s FIRST term and there is plentiful troubling evidence he has mental issues. Unsurprisingly, as he is already the oldest American president in history

    And he wants six more years. JFC
    He's being completely savaged by Trump on his dodderiness too. Though whether there are any undecided voters left that this could sway, who knows?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIrsZ2w5JXo

    The first comment on this video is devastating:
    "Joe Biden in 2024 would be like a four year long version of Weekend at Bernie’s."
  • HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    He will be my King, of course I will swear allegiance to him as he is anointed by grace of God to be our monarch next Saturday
    To be fair your response is entirely consistent with your views

    However it is a minority view and increasingly so
    Yes, I wish him well and quite like him, but swearing allegiance feels a bit, well, un-British. It's the sort of thing Americans do.
    Depends what it is being asked. If they suggest say something wishing him well, would you not do it?

    “May the King soon recover the marbles he lost years ago.” For example.
    The order of service will read

    All who so desire, in the Abbey, and elsewhere, say together

    'I swear that I will pay true allegiance to Your Majesty, your heirs and successors according to law, so help me God'
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    edited April 2023

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    He will be my King, of course I will swear allegiance to him as he is anointed by grace of God to be our monarch next Saturday
    To be fair your response is entirely consistent with your views

    However it is a minority view and increasingly so
    Yes, I wish him well and quite like him, but swearing allegiance feels a bit, well, un-British. It's the sort of thing Americans do.
    Depends what it is being asked. If they suggest say something wishing him well, would you not do it?

    “May the King soon recover the marbles he lost years ago.” For example.
    The order of service will read

    All who so desire, in the Abbey, and elsewhere, say together

    'I swear that I will pay true allegiance to Your Majesty, your heirs and successors according to law, so help me God'
    It’s a change from when the peers specifically were called to swear allegiance.

    But it’s briefed badly.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573
    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    This decision to ask people to swear allegiance is just bizarre. The silly fools at the palace are out of touch with the British (and Commonwealth) people. Even clap for carers had less than 1 per cent compliance, from what I could see.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    I agree. If Biden is senile, I'll happily take senility. The risk is the American people won't take it and then choose someone much worse.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited April 2023
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    He will be my King, of course I will swear allegiance to him as he is anointed by grace of God to be our monarch next Saturday
    To be fair your response is entirely consistent with your views

    However it is a minority view and increasingly so
    Yes, I wish him well and quite like him, but swearing allegiance feels a bit, well, un-British. It's the sort of thing Americans do.
    Depends what it is being asked. If they suggest say something wishing him well, would you not do it?

    “May the King soon recover the marbles he lost years ago.” For example.
    The order of service will read

    All who so desire, in the Abbey, and elsewhere, say together

    'I swear that I will pay true allegiance to Your Majesty, your heirs and successors according to law, so help me God'
    If you want to become a naturalized British citizen, you have to swear this. No choice.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,946
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    He will be my King, of course I will swear allegiance to him as he is anointed by grace of God to be our monarch next Saturday
    To be fair your response is entirely consistent with your views

    However it is a minority view and increasingly so
    Yes, I wish him well and quite like him, but swearing allegiance feels a bit, well, un-British. It's the sort of thing Americans do.
    Depends what it is being asked. If they suggest say something wishing him well, would you not do it?

    “May the King soon recover the marbles he lost years ago.” For example.
    The order of service will read

    All who so desire, in the Abbey, and elsewhere, say together

    'I swear that I will pay true allegiance to Your Majesty, your heirs and successors according to law, so help me God'
    If you want to become a naturalized British citizen, you have to swear this. No choice.
    Indeed, a small thing to do, we don't even put you in the Tower of London, behead or hang you or hang, draw and quarter you now if you fail to properly respect the King's authority
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    The music is pointlessly cruel and cringe. But the complete befuddlement of Biden here is indeed reflected, painfully, in the faces of the servicemen and women. And this is Biden 18 months BEFORE the next election where he hopes to serve four more years??

    This is desperate. The Dems need to stop him


    “No one has to say anything.

    Look at the faces of these men and women as they watch their president in disarray.

    He, by far is the biggest embarrassment we’ve ever had in the White House.”

    https://twitter.com/bernardkerik/status/1652420341409497091?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    I imagine there's somewhere an equivalent video with more patriotic music saying 'Watch their faces fill with pride....' that plays to an equally accepting audience.

    I'm not in any way a fan of Biden and really wish the Democrats had something else to offer, but these trashy videos are just awful. I've seen similar with the anti-vax crowd with "In the Hall of the Mountain King" played over clips of various medics and being lapped up by the alt-right/MAGA - I'm sure you can find equivalent 'Yakety Sax' videos on the other side too.

    It's just ... shit propaganda. Sorry.
    I said it’s cruel and cringe. It’s yuk. But it will be watched and it has an effect. That’s presumably why 70% of Americans don’t want Biden to stand
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
    He’s the most dweebish individual to hold the PM office since William Pitt the Younger.

    He has the gravitas of a spare sock.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    He will be my King, of course I will swear allegiance to him as he is anointed by grace of God to be our monarch next Saturday
    To be fair your response is entirely consistent with your views

    However it is a minority view and increasingly so
    Yes, I wish him well and quite like him, but swearing allegiance feels a bit, well, un-British. It's the sort of thing Americans do.
    Depends what it is being asked. If they suggest say something wishing him well, would you not do it?

    “May the King soon recover the marbles he lost years ago.” For example.
    The order of service will read

    All who so desire, in the Abbey, and elsewhere, say together

    'I swear that I will pay true allegiance to Your Majesty, your heirs and successors according to law, so help me God'
    If you want to become a naturalized British citizen, you have to swear this. No choice.
    Indeed, a small thing to do, we don't even put you in the Tower of London, behead or hang you or hang, draw and quarter you now if you fail to properly respect the King's authority
    Are we supposed to be grateful? 😂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
    He’s the most dweebish individual to hold the PM office since William Pitt the Younger.

    He has the gravitas of a spare sock.
    Still has more gravitas than Truss and more charisma than Starmer
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    You're right. Sunak lacks common sense. I was talking about something else. He's smart in a Goldman Sachs management consultant kind of way. Those guys get paid a lot for their smartness.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    Mixed on that, latest Emerson poll is Biden 43% DeSantis 37% and Biden 43% Trump 41%
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    So more 2019 LD voters are going Conservative than 2019 Conservative voters are going LD, some good news for Tories fighting LDs on Thursday even if a tougher prospect for Tories fighting Labour

    Not really, it's 4% of a smaller number vs 3% of a larger number - pretty even trade, isn't it? Both are losing net votes to Labour.
    Yes but if you are a Tory councillor or candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second then votes going to Labour are not a problem as long as you make net gains from the LDs
    Unless analysing the national polls doesn’t warn how fluid Lab and Lib votes will be where the voter knows how much anti Tory fun they could have with them?

    You surely want the National LLG totals to be so much lower than 60%?
    In May 2019 the Tories got 28% NEV, little different to now, however there has been swing from LDs to Tories since then, even if a bigger swing from Tories to Labour.

    So as I said if you are a local council candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second the current situation is better for you than in May 2019 when the LDs got 19% NEV, even if much worse for you in a Tory held seat where Labour are second than it would have been in May 2019 when Labour also got only 28% NEV and are now polling over 40%
    And like I said, without dismissing anything you said being factually true, the keenness and precision of tactical voting can make a mockery of everything you are typing here.

    Carry On Sweating.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
    He’s the most dweebish individual to hold the PM office since William Pitt the Younger.

    He has the gravitas of a spare sock.
    Still has more gravitas than Truss and more charisma than Starmer
    Really?

    Truss beat him in the debates, and while Starmer is plodding, I can’t imagine him doing this.

    https://twitter.com/marieannuk/status/1652363453879779335?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    I'm honestly a little bit shocked and disappointed.
    In the request or my comment about my wife and I ?
    In the comment. Of all the people I would have expected to do so, you would have been near the top (I don't know your wife well enough to comment). Is there a conscious reason or just by instinct? You don't have to answer if you don't want to (it's your business after all)
    Topically it commenced at the Queen's coronation in 1953 when we hosted the street to come and watch it on our small black and white TV

    We had quite a large Victorian house at the time and it was an event throughout the day which to me as a young lad of 9 become boring, but at times really funny as my grandmother was an ardent royalist standing to attention lots of the time

    As I grew older I really did not have much love for royalty and of course moving to Scotland for several years and marrying a Scot we both became quite agnostic but short of being Republicans

    In the later years we both became admirers of the late Queen but had little time for Charles but do like William and Kate

    I know we have the benefit of comparing both coronations, but times have changed out of all recognition since 1953 and I just think this declaration of allegiance is unnecessary and even unwise
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited April 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    So more 2019 LD voters are going Conservative than 2019 Conservative voters are going LD, some good news for Tories fighting LDs on Thursday even if a tougher prospect for Tories fighting Labour

    Not really, it's 4% of a smaller number vs 3% of a larger number - pretty even trade, isn't it? Both are losing net votes to Labour.
    Yes but if you are a Tory councillor or candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second then votes going to Labour are not a problem as long as you make net gains from the LDs
    Unless analysing the national polls doesn’t warn how fluid Lab and Lib votes will be where the voter knows how much anti Tory fun they could have with them?

    You surely want the National LLG totals to be so much lower than 60%?
    In May 2019 the Tories got 28% NEV, little different to now, however there has been swing from LDs to Tories since then, even if a bigger swing from Tories to Labour.

    So as I said if you are a local council candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second the current situation is better for you than in May 2019 when the LDs got 19% NEV, even if much worse for you in a Tory held seat where Labour are second than it would have been in May 2019 when Labour also got only 28% NEV and are now polling over 40%
    And like I said, without dismissing anything you said being factually true, the keenness and precision of tactical voting can make a mockery of everything you are typing here.

    Carry On Sweating.
    Wrong, because a few of those who voted LD in Tory v LD marginals in 2019 as they disliked Corbyn will now vote Starmer Labour, actually helping the Tory candidate whose vote will be little changed from May 2019
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    edited April 2023

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
    He’s the most dweebish individual to hold the PM office since William Pitt the Younger.

    He has the gravitas of a spare sock.
    Pitt The Younger was PM for nearly 19 years in total of course... I suspect Rish would be happy with that... ;)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    I’m not talking about the polling, I’m talking about leadership and the ability to make the political weather to positive effect.

    Our age is not exactly blessed with political talent, and Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got.

    Yes, he’s v old. But the senility stuff is just put about by his enemies, just like the rumours about Hillary’s health etc.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,946

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
    He’s the most dweebish individual to hold the PM office since William Pitt the Younger.

    He has the gravitas of a spare sock.
    Pitt the Younger didn't do too badly iirc?

    If Sunak lasts almost twenty years as PM and sets the stage for a triumph like Trafalgar, I imagine he'd be happy with that.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    He will be my King, of course I will swear allegiance to him as he is anointed by grace of God to be our monarch next Saturday
    To be fair your response is entirely consistent with your views

    However it is a minority view and increasingly so
    Yes, I wish him well and quite like him, but swearing allegiance feels a bit, well, un-British. It's the sort of thing Americans do.
    Depends what it is being asked. If they suggest say something wishing him well, would you not do it?

    “May the King soon recover the marbles he lost years ago.” For example.
    May his sausage fingers be ever on the pulse of the nation.
    And councillors growing in his greenhouse, always reply with the bestest advice.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,955
    The Biden problem is more a Kamala Harris problem, than a Biden problem.

    In 1944, FDR was persuaded to take on Truman as his vice presidential running mate, in place of Henry Wallace, because many party insiders knew that FDR was unlikely to live out his fourth term -- and Wallace was unacceptable as a replacement.

    (I believe that FDR's poor health contributed to some of the errors he made during the end of his life, but there are those who disagree, for example, military historian Rick Atkinson.)

    Similarly, Harris is also unacceptable.

    (It looks to me as if Biden is trying to teach Harris how to be a president, by giving her simple jobs she can learn from, but she doesn't seem to have progressed as much as I would like. But she is a "three-fer", and so irreplaceable in the Democratic Party.)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    ...
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    You're right. Sunak lacks common sense. I was talking about something else. He's smart in a Goldman Sachs management consultant kind of way. Those guys get paid a lot for their smartness.
    For someone so smart, his new spectacles are a very odd choice. They make him look like he's wearing one of those comedy noses.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
    He’s the most dweebish individual to hold the PM office since William Pitt the Younger.

    He has the gravitas of a spare sock.
    Still has more gravitas than Truss and more charisma than Starmer
    Really?

    Truss beat him in the debates, and while Starmer is plodding, I can’t imagine him doing this.

    https://twitter.com/marieannuk/status/1652363453879779335?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    Sunak actually won most of the debates with the public in polls, Truss just won them with members. Hence I think Rishi will do better in the debates with Starmer with swing voters than many expect, even Corbyn had more passion than Sir Keir has and Starmer is still far less fluent in debate than Blair was
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    So more 2019 LD voters are going Conservative than 2019 Conservative voters are going LD, some good news for Tories fighting LDs on Thursday even if a tougher prospect for Tories fighting Labour

    Not really, it's 4% of a smaller number vs 3% of a larger number - pretty even trade, isn't it? Both are losing net votes to Labour.
    Yes but if you are a Tory councillor or candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second then votes going to Labour are not a problem as long as you make net gains from the LDs
    Unless analysing the national polls doesn’t warn how fluid Lab and Lib votes will be where the voter knows how much anti Tory fun they could have with them?

    You surely want the National LLG totals to be so much lower than 60%?
    In May 2019 the Tories got 28% NEV, little different to now, however there has been swing from LDs to Tories since then, even if a bigger swing from Tories to Labour.

    So as I said if you are a local council candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second the current situation is better for you than in May 2019 when the LDs got 19% NEV, even if much worse for you in a Tory held seat where Labour are second than it would have been in May 2019 when Labour also got only 28% NEV and are now polling over 40%
    And like I said, without dismissing anything you said being factually true, the keenness and precision of tactical voting can make a mockery of everything you are typing here.

    Carry On Sweating.
    Wrong, because a few of those who voted LD in Tory v LD marginals in 2019 as they disliked Corbyn will now vote Starmer Labour, actually helping the Tory candidate whose vote will be little changed from May 2019
    Wrong. The massive LLG total out there won’t waste votes like you say, they are savvy enough to gang up to hurt you as much as they possibly can.

    Carry On Sweating.

    Footnote. It has to be said, I know you and your values so well, I would have no problem casting a personal vote for you. Are you standing in SW3
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
    He’s the most dweebish individual to hold the PM office since William Pitt the Younger.

    He has the gravitas of a spare sock.
    Still has more gravitas than Truss and more charisma than Starmer
    Really?

    Truss beat him in the debates, and while Starmer is plodding, I can’t imagine him doing this.

    https://twitter.com/marieannuk/status/1652363453879779335?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    Sunak actually won most of the debates with the public in polls, Truss just won them with members. Hence I think Rishi will do better in the debates with Starmer with swing voters than many expect, even Corbyn had more passion than Sir Keir has and Starmer is still far less fluent in debate than Blair was
    Truss 'just' won them with the audience she was meant to win them with. Which indicates Sunak's inability to tailor his message to a specific audience - I think someone said here that he used the same poorly delivered script in every debate. I can't confirm that because seeing it once was enough for me.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,469

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    edited April 2023
    Sunak appears to be competent, honest and hardworking, and there’s much to be said for that given his last two predecessors.

    However, his political judgment is a bit wonky, he seems happy to back dog whistle language from his Home Sec that simply wouldn’t have been acceptable prior to the 2016 revolution.

    He’s also an ideological dead end for this country. if we want Britain to grow, Rishi needs to go. His project is neo-liberal austerity and, within the constraints handed to him, tax cuts for capital and the already wealthy.

    He’s got no gravitas, and he only got the job on sufferance. I also think he’s a something of a narcissist, perhaps that’s to be expected from politicians, but perhaps folks have forgotten his self-indulgent instagram digital “branding” aka thinly disguised slow burn leadership campaign while Chancellor.

    Keir Starmer has significant flaws, which space does not permit me to enumerate, but he’s better than Sunak, and his team is better than Sunak’s team.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,573
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    He will be my King, of course I will swear allegiance to him as he is anointed by grace of God to be our monarch next Saturday
    To be fair your response is entirely consistent with your views

    However it is a minority view and increasingly so
    Yes, I wish him well and quite like him, but swearing allegiance feels a bit, well, un-British. It's the sort of thing Americans do.
    Depends what it is being asked. If they suggest say something wishing him well, would you not do it?

    “May the King soon recover the marbles he lost years ago.” For example.
    The order of service will read

    All who so desire, in the Abbey, and elsewhere, say together

    'I swear that I will pay true allegiance to Your Majesty, your heirs and successors according to law, so help me God'
    If you want to become a naturalized British citizen, you have to swear this. No choice.
    So help me God was tacked onto the end by fans of American courtroom dramas, presumably.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited April 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    So more 2019 LD voters are going Conservative than 2019 Conservative voters are going LD, some good news for Tories fighting LDs on Thursday even if a tougher prospect for Tories fighting Labour

    Not really, it's 4% of a smaller number vs 3% of a larger number - pretty even trade, isn't it? Both are losing net votes to Labour.
    Yes but if you are a Tory councillor or candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second then votes going to Labour are not a problem as long as you make net gains from the LDs
    Unless analysing the national polls doesn’t warn how fluid Lab and Lib votes will be where the voter knows how much anti Tory fun they could have with them?

    You surely want the National LLG totals to be so much lower than 60%?
    In May 2019 the Tories got 28% NEV, little different to now, however there has been swing from LDs to Tories since then, even if a bigger swing from Tories to Labour.

    So as I said if you are a local council candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second the current situation is better for you than in May 2019 when the LDs got 19% NEV, even if much worse for you in a Tory held seat where Labour are second than it would have been in May 2019 when Labour also got only 28% NEV and are now polling over 40%
    And like I said, without dismissing anything you said being factually true, the keenness and precision of tactical voting can make a mockery of everything you are typing here.

    Carry On Sweating.
    Wrong, because a few of those who voted LD in Tory v LD marginals in 2019 as they disliked Corbyn will now vote Starmer Labour, actually helping the Tory candidate whose vote will be little changed from May 2019
    Wrong. The massive LLG total out there won’t waste votes like you say, they are savvy enough to gang up to hurt you as much as they possibly can.

    Carry On Sweating.

    Footnote. It has to be said, I know you and your values so well, I would have no problem casting a personal vote for you. Are you standing in SW3
    In May 2019 LLG total was little different to now given the Tories got just 28% NEV (albeit a little lower as more went Independent). However now more are going Labour and fewer LD so I repeat that will help Tory candidates where the LDs are their main opponents where there is a Labour candidate.

    I might possibly be standing in a seat on Thursday but it is not SW3
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited April 2023

    Sunak appears to be competent, honest and hardworking, and there’s much to be said for that given his last two predecessors.

    However, his political judgment is a bit wonky, he seems happy to back dog whistle language from his Home Sec that simply wouldn’t have been acceptable prior to the 2016 revolution.

    He’s also an ideological dead end for this country. if we want Britain to grow, Rishi needs to go. His project is neo-liberal austerity and, within the constraints handed to him, tax cuts for capital and the already wealthy.

    He’s got no gravitas, and he only got the job on sufferance. I also think he’s a something of a narcissist, perhaps that’s to be expected from politicians, but perhaps folks have forgotten his self-indulgent instagram digital “branding” aka thinly disguised slow burn leadership campaign while Chancellor.

    Keir Starmer has significant flaws, which space does not permit me to enumerate, but he’s better than Sunak, and his team is better than Sunak’s team.

    The team game thing is another thing we probably don’t consider enough. Look at what Lady Thatcher had around her, Bernard Ingram, Willie Whitelaw. Blair had Ali and Mandy to mind him. Time and again you feel Sunak surrounded himself with people with no more experience or common sense than he has.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.
    Also I think he's gaining in experience. He was wildly over-promoted as Chancellor and made lots of terrible decisions in his first year at the Treasury, but with three years at the top under his belt, he's doing better as PM imho. He's made some good choices, and the terrible ones he's made (e.g. on housebuilding and keeping the corporation tax rate rise) were probably politically inevitable.
    He’s the most dweebish individual to hold the PM office since William Pitt the Younger.

    He has the gravitas of a spare sock.
    Still has more gravitas than Truss and more charisma than Starmer
    Really?

    Truss beat him in the debates, and while Starmer is plodding, I can’t imagine him doing this.

    https://twitter.com/marieannuk/status/1652363453879779335?s=46&t=L9g_woCIqbo1MTuBFCK0xg
    Sunak actually won most of the debates with the public in polls, Truss just won them with members. Hence I think Rishi will do better in the debates with Starmer with swing voters than many expect, even Corbyn had more passion than Sir Keir has and Starmer is still far less fluent in debate than Blair was
    The contest was for members.

    Sunak was all-too-slick and, as others have noted, couldn’t change his script.

    When he finally realised he was the underdog he also started coming out with a load of tosh which against speaks to his poor judgment.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,789

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    I'm honestly a little bit shocked and disappointed.
    In the request or my comment about my wife and I ?
    In the comment. Of all the people I would have expected to do so, you would have been near the top (I don't know your wife well enough to comment). Is there a conscious reason or just by instinct? You don't have to answer if you don't want to (it's your business after all)
    Topically it commenced at the Queen's coronation in 1953 when we hosted the street to come and watch it on our small black and white TV

    We had quite a large Victorian house at the time and it was an event throughout the day which to me as a young lad of 9 become boring, but at times really funny as my grandmother was an ardent royalist standing to attention lots of the time

    As I grew older I really did not have much love for royalty and of course moving to Scotland for several years and marrying a Scot we both became quite agnostic but short of being Republicans

    In the later years we both became admirers of the late Queen but had little time for Charles but do like William and Kate

    I know we have the benefit of comparing both coronations, but times have changed out of all recognition since 1953 and I just think this declaration of allegiance is unnecessary and even unwise
    Fair enough, thank you.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    edited April 2023

    Sunak appears to be competent, honest and hardworking, and there’s much to be said for that given his last two predecessors.

    However, his political judgment is a bit wonky, he seems happy to back dog whistle language from his Home Sec that simply wouldn’t have been acceptable prior to the 2016 revolution.

    He’s also an ideological dead end for this country. if we want Britain to grow, Rishi needs to go. His project is neo-liberal austerity and, within the constraints handed to him, tax cuts for capital and the already wealthy.

    He’s got no gravitas, and he only got the job on sufferance. I also think he’s a something of a narcissist, perhaps that’s to be expected from politicians, but perhaps folks have forgotten his self-indulgent instagram digital “branding” aka thinly disguised slow burn leadership campaign while Chancellor.

    Keir Starmer has significant flaws, which space does not permit me to enumerate, but he’s better than Sunak, and his team is better than Sunak’s team.

    The team game thing is another thing we probably don’t consider enough. Look at what Lady Thatcher had around her, Bernard Ingram, Willie Whitelaw. Blair had Ali and Mandy to mind him. Time and again you feel Sunak surrounded himself with people with no more experience or common sense than he has.
    Sunak’s team is better than Boris’s or Liz’s.
    However, I don’t get a sense that he is a fantastic judge of talent.

    What really does Oliver Dowden bring, for example? His best asset - Hunt - was kind of forced on him.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 309

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    I'm honestly a little bit shocked and disappointed.
    In the request or my comment about my wife and I ?
    In the comment. Of all the people I would have expected to do so, you would have been near the top (I don't know your wife well enough to comment). Is there a conscious reason or just by instinct? You don't have to answer if you don't want to (it's your business after all)
    Topically it commenced at the Queen's coronation in 1953 when we hosted the street to come and watch it on our small black and white TV

    We had quite a large Victorian house at the time and it was an event throughout the day which to me as a young lad of 9 become boring, but at times really funny as my grandmother was an ardent royalist standing to attention lots of the time

    As I grew older I really did not have much love for royalty and of course moving to Scotland for several years and marrying a Scot we both became quite agnostic but short of being Republicans

    In the later years we both became admirers of the late Queen but had little time for Charles but do like William and Kate

    I know we have the benefit of comparing both coronations, but times have changed out of all recognition since 1953 and I just think this declaration of allegiance is unnecessary and even unwise
    Do you not think there's value in our historic institutions, and in perpetuating the culture we've inherited from our ancestors? Times change, and this is the King changing something that only a few people participated in, into something many people can participate in if they chose. Surely that's exactly what we want - maintaining tradition, while expanding it?

    I'm deeply concerned that we seem to be rejecting our heritage without filling the void - it is leaving my generation culturally and socially homeless, and I am worried it will end badly.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Sunak appears to be competent, honest and hardworking, and there’s much to be said for that given his last two predecessors.

    However, his political judgment is a bit wonky, he seems happy to back dog whistle language from his Home Sec that simply wouldn’t have been acceptable prior to the 2016 revolution.

    He’s also an ideological dead end for this country. if we want Britain to grow, Rishi needs to go. His project is neo-liberal austerity and, within the constraints handed to him, tax cuts for capital and the already wealthy.

    He’s got no gravitas, and he only got the job on sufferance. I also think he’s a something of a narcissist, perhaps that’s to be expected from politicians, but perhaps folks have forgotten his self-indulgent instagram digital “branding” aka thinly disguised slow burn leadership campaign while Chancellor.

    Keir Starmer has significant flaws, which space does not permit me to enumerate, but he’s better than Sunak, and his team is better than Sunak’s team.

    His foibles would be forgiveable if he weren't so weak. He has already:

    -Caved to US pressure and raised CT, even though a tiny country like Ireland carries blithely on undercutting everyone with a rate of 12.5%.
    -Caved to worldwide greenery by undermining the UK oil industry (which ironically leads to more carbon due to importing LNG)
    -Caved to the EU by rolling over and sending them billions of pounds for a claim he could have contested, or at the very least held back to secure a good WF deal
    -Caved to the EU by agreeing a suboptimal WF deal which he's now trying to bully the DUP into accepting
    -Caved to the French, paying them tens of billions not to sort out the boats, then tens of millions more, to continue not to sort out the boats
    -Caved to the Civil Service as they picked off his close ally, and does nothing when they pompously and publicly brief against another (coincidentally Brexit-supporting) Minister
    -Caved on boats, only to be forced to add more stringent measures by his own MPs

    These are serious political and economic issues where his lack of backbone has caused lasting damage.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    '@GovRonDeSantis
    .
    @CaseyDeSantis
    and I enjoyed meeting MP Kemi Badenoch, who is such a strong, outspoken leader in the United Kingdom.

    We share the same goal of spurring economic growth for our people and I look forward to continuing our relationship.'
    https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1652454281419563009?s=20
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    edited April 2023
    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.
    You subtract how much the scheme was nothing more than a "giveaway" to benefit those well-off enough to eat out anyway, In the deficit column you add how it boosted covid prolonging the agony of sick people and sick workforce. You look into what happened to businesses when it ceased, did it save any businesses or jobs.

    It only cost £850M though, so admittedly small fry compared to billions Sunak has wasted on other things.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Sunak appears to be competent, honest and hardworking, and there’s much to be said for that given his last two predecessors.

    However, his political judgment is a bit wonky, he seems happy to back dog whistle language from his Home Sec that simply wouldn’t have been acceptable prior to the 2016 revolution.

    He’s also an ideological dead end for this country. if we want Britain to grow, Rishi needs to go. His project is neo-liberal austerity and, within the constraints handed to him, tax cuts for capital and the already wealthy.

    He’s got no gravitas, and he only got the job on sufferance. I also think he’s a something of a narcissist, perhaps that’s to be expected from politicians, but perhaps folks have forgotten his self-indulgent instagram digital “branding” aka thinly disguised slow burn leadership campaign while Chancellor.

    Keir Starmer has significant flaws, which space does not permit me to enumerate, but he’s better than Sunak, and his team is better than Sunak’s team.

    The team game thing is another thing we probably don’t consider enough. Look at what Lady Thatcher had around her, Bernard Ingram, Willie Whitelaw. Blair had Ali and Mandy to mind him. Time and again you feel Sunak surrounded himself with people with no more experience or common sense than he has.
    Sunak’s team is better than Boris’s or Liz’s.
    However, I don’t get a sense that he is a fantastic judge of talent.

    What really does Oliver Dowden bring, for example? His best asset - Hunt - was kind of forced on him.
    “What really does Oliver Dowden bring, for example?”

    A Labour government.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    HYUFD said:

    '@GovRonDeSantis
    .
    @CaseyDeSantis
    and I enjoyed meeting MP Kemi Badenoch, who is such a strong, outspoken leader in the United Kingdom.

    We share the same goal of spurring economic growth for our people and I look forward to continuing our relationship.'
    https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1652454281419563009?s=20

    2030 - PM Kemi and POTUS Ron are the new Meggie and Ronnie? ;)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Sunak appears to be competent, honest and hardworking, and there’s much to be said for that given his last two predecessors.

    However, his political judgment is a bit wonky, he seems happy to back dog whistle language from his Home Sec that simply wouldn’t have been acceptable prior to the 2016 revolution.

    He’s also an ideological dead end for this country. if we want Britain to grow, Rishi needs to go. His project is neo-liberal austerity and, within the constraints handed to him, tax cuts for capital and the already wealthy.

    He’s got no gravitas, and he only got the job on sufferance. I also think he’s a something of a narcissist, perhaps that’s to be expected from politicians, but perhaps folks have forgotten his self-indulgent instagram digital “branding” aka thinly disguised slow burn leadership campaign while Chancellor.

    Keir Starmer has significant flaws, which space does not permit me to enumerate, but he’s better than Sunak, and his team is better than Sunak’s team.

    He’s a clever technocrat who gets on with the job and might, just might, have some good ideas in years to come, as he grows into the role, and loses that naive lightweight quality

    However he won’t get the chance. The polls bounce around, but the truth is Starmer - however boring and unloved - will become the next PM

    God Save the King

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    So more 2019 LD voters are going Conservative than 2019 Conservative voters are going LD, some good news for Tories fighting LDs on Thursday even if a tougher prospect for Tories fighting Labour

    Not really, it's 4% of a smaller number vs 3% of a larger number - pretty even trade, isn't it? Both are losing net votes to Labour.
    Yes but if you are a Tory councillor or candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second then votes going to Labour are not a problem as long as you make net gains from the LDs
    Unless analysing the national polls doesn’t warn how fluid Lab and Lib votes will be where the voter knows how much anti Tory fun they could have with them?

    You surely want the National LLG totals to be so much lower than 60%?
    In May 2019 the Tories got 28% NEV, little different to now, however there has been swing from LDs to Tories since then, even if a bigger swing from Tories to Labour.

    So as I said if you are a local council candidate in a Tory held seat where the LDs are second the current situation is better for you than in May 2019 when the LDs got 19% NEV, even if much worse for you in a Tory held seat where Labour are second than it would have been in May 2019 when Labour also got only 28% NEV and are now polling over 40%
    And like I said, without dismissing anything you said being factually true, the keenness and precision of tactical voting can make a mockery of everything you are typing here.

    Carry On Sweating.
    Wrong, because a few of those who voted LD in Tory v LD marginals in 2019 as they disliked Corbyn will now vote Starmer Labour, actually helping the Tory candidate whose vote will be little changed from May 2019
    Wrong. The massive LLG total out there won’t waste votes like you say, they are savvy enough to gang up to hurt you as much as they possibly can.

    Carry On Sweating.

    Footnote. It has to be said, I know you and your values so well, I would have no problem casting a personal vote for you. Are you standing in SW3
    In May 2019 LLG total was little different to now given the Tories got just 28% NEV (albeit a little lower as more went Independent). However now more are going Labour and fewer LD so I repeat that will help Tory candidates where the LDs are their main opponents where there is a Labour candidate.

    I might possibly be standing in a seat on Thursday but it is not SW3
    May 2019 Corbyn and his Carnival of Horrors controlled Labour; chances then of tactical votes equaled zero.

    I hope you win.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited April 2023

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    I'm honestly a little bit shocked and disappointed.
    In the request or my comment about my wife and I ?
    In the comment. Of all the people I would have expected to do so, you would have been near the top (I don't know your wife well enough to comment). Is there a conscious reason or just by instinct? You don't have to answer if you don't want to (it's your business after all)
    Topically it commenced at the Queen's coronation in 1953 when we hosted the street to come and watch it on our small black and white TV

    We had quite a large Victorian house at the time and it was an event throughout the day which to me as a young lad of 9 become boring, but at times really funny as my grandmother was an ardent royalist standing to attention lots of the time

    As I grew older I really did not have much love for royalty and of course moving to Scotland for several years and marrying a Scot we both became quite agnostic but short of being Republicans

    In the later years we both became admirers of the late Queen but had little time for Charles but do like William and Kate

    I know we have the benefit of comparing both coronations, but times have changed out of all recognition since 1953 and I just think this declaration of allegiance is unnecessary and even unwise
    Do you not think there's value in our historic institutions, and in perpetuating the culture we've inherited from our ancestors? Times change, and this is the King changing something that only a few people participated in, into something many people can participate in if they chose. Surely that's exactly what we want - maintaining tradition, while expanding it?

    I'm deeply concerned that we seem to be rejecting our heritage without filling the void - it is leaving my generation culturally and socially homeless, and I am worried it will end badly.
    I am sorry you feel that but my attitude to monarchy is it has to change with the times and to me this oath of allegiance opens Charles for criticism that he is subjugating the people in a way that has passed

    If you have followed my comments I am not a republican but also think Charles has to be very careful if he is to have a successful time in the role
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited April 2023

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

  • HYUFD said:

    '@GovRonDeSantis
    .
    @CaseyDeSantis
    and I enjoyed meeting MP Kemi Badenoch, who is such a strong, outspoken leader in the United Kingdom.

    We share the same goal of spurring economic growth for our people and I look forward to continuing our relationship.'
    https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1652454281419563009?s=20

    Not sure that is a vote winner you think it might be
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    Biden spends considerably less than UK Tory Prime Ministers.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,469

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.
    You subtract how much the scheme was nothing more than a "giveaway" to benefit those well-off enough to eat out anyway, In the deficit column you add how it boosted covid prolonging the agony of sick people and sick workforce. You look into what happened to businesses when it ceased, did it save any businesses or jobs.

    It only cost £850M though, so admittedly small fry compared to billions Sunak has wasted on other things.
    The 'well-off enough' being about 80% of the country and as it was capped at £10 proportionally benefitted the low paid.

    And as you say it was small fry compared to the spending then happening - why shouldn't the cleaners at my work place (and they certainly made used of EOTHO) not get help from the government when the likes of Michelle Mone were getting millions.

    As to prolonging covid if the government couldn't be bothered to stop people taking holidays in covid hotspots then why should it restrict people going to restaurants in this country at a time when new cases were only a thousand per day.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,255
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited April 2023

    HYUFD said:

    '@GovRonDeSantis
    .
    @CaseyDeSantis
    and I enjoyed meeting MP Kemi Badenoch, who is such a strong, outspoken leader in the United Kingdom.

    We share the same goal of spurring economic growth for our people and I look forward to continuing our relationship.'
    https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1652454281419563009?s=20

    Not sure that is a vote winner you think it might be
    2 proper conservatives like each other, hardly a surprise. Some things are about core ideological principles not just being all things to everyone
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    edited April 2023

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    I'm honestly a little bit shocked and disappointed.
    In the request or my comment about my wife and I ?
    In the comment. Of all the people I would have expected to do so, you would have been near the top (I don't know your wife well enough to comment). Is there a conscious reason or just by instinct? You don't have to answer if you don't want to (it's your business after all)
    Topically it commenced at the Queen's coronation in 1953 when we hosted the street to come and watch it on our small black and white TV

    We had quite a large Victorian house at the time and it was an event throughout the day which to me as a young lad of 9 become boring, but at times really funny as my grandmother was an ardent royalist standing to attention lots of the time

    As I grew older I really did not have much love for royalty and of course moving to Scotland for several years and marrying a Scot we both became quite agnostic but short of being Republicans

    In the later years we both became admirers of the late Queen but had little time for Charles but do like William and Kate

    I know we have the benefit of comparing both coronations, but times have changed out of all recognition since 1953 and I just think this declaration of allegiance is unnecessary and even unwise
    Do you not think there's value in our historic institutions, and in perpetuating the culture we've inherited from our ancestors? Times change, and this is the King changing something that only a few people participated in, into something many people can participate in if they chose. Surely that's exactly what we want - maintaining tradition, while expanding it?

    I'm deeply concerned that we seem to be rejecting our heritage without filling the void - it is leaving my generation culturally and socially homeless, and I am worried it will end badly.
    I am sorry you feel that but my attitude to monarchy is it has to change with the times and to me this oath of allegiance opens Charles for criticism that he is subjugating the people in a way that has passed

    If you have followed my comments I am not a republican but also think Charles has to be very careful if he is to have a successful time in the role
    Chas won't have a "successful" time in the role beyond being "TOLERATED" because he has to be... But almost everyone will be counting down the days until his reign is over and we can move on with William and Catherine and after them... George.

    Charles fate as the King we "tolerate" because we have to was sealed the moment Diana Princess Of Wales speeding car hit the thirteenth pillar Pont de l'Alma underpass on 31st August 1997...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    Yet Taiwan is under more threat from China than ever, including its huge microchip industry
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    Biden spends considerably less than UK Tory Prime Ministers.
    He doesn't, Sunak and Hunt are cutting spending, Biden has overseen the biggest US spending increase percentage wise of gdp since LBJ
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,469
    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    An indictment of the Dem party.

    Likewise the success of Trump is an indictment of the GOP.

    Which leads to what is, to me at least, the big mystery of US politics.

    Namely if opinion polls show that governors are generally well thought then why have they done so poorly in presidential primaries ?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    '@GovRonDeSantis
    .
    @CaseyDeSantis
    and I enjoyed meeting MP Kemi Badenoch, who is such a strong, outspoken leader in the United Kingdom.

    We share the same goal of spurring economic growth for our people and I look forward to continuing our relationship.'
    https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1652454281419563009?s=20

    Not sure that is a vote winner you think it might be
    2 proper conservatives like each other, hardly a surprise. Some things are about core ideological principles not just being all things to everyone
    Very Jeremy Corbyn
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Leon said:

    That video of Biden shows absolutely nothing. The music on top is just cringe.
    Is all the Republicans have?

    It’s not Republicans, it’s Americans who have an issue with Biden’s age and decline


    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bidens-age-target-critics-issue-voters-kicks-off/story?id=98938329


    “She asked for his response to a recent NBC News poll that showed 70% of Americans, including a majority of Democrats, think he shouldn't run again. Biden told her he feels good and he respects the fact that people will question his age.“
    Lizzie was 96 when she passed away.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,135
    Leon said:

    Sunak appears to be competent, honest and hardworking, and there’s much to be said for that given his last two predecessors.

    However, his political judgment is a bit wonky, he seems happy to back dog whistle language from his Home Sec that simply wouldn’t have been acceptable prior to the 2016 revolution.

    He’s also an ideological dead end for this country. if we want Britain to grow, Rishi needs to go. His project is neo-liberal austerity and, within the constraints handed to him, tax cuts for capital and the already wealthy.

    He’s got no gravitas, and he only got the job on sufferance. I also think he’s a something of a narcissist, perhaps that’s to be expected from politicians, but perhaps folks have forgotten his self-indulgent instagram digital “branding” aka thinly disguised slow burn leadership campaign while Chancellor.

    Keir Starmer has significant flaws, which space does not permit me to enumerate, but he’s better than Sunak, and his team is better than Sunak’s team.

    He’s a clever technocrat who gets on with the job and might, just might, have some good ideas in years to come, as he grows into the role, and loses that naive lightweight quality

    However he won’t get the chance. The polls bounce around, but the truth is Starmer - however boring and unloved - will become the next PM

    God Save the King

    I'm not convinced he'll be the next PM.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    HYUFD said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    Biden spends considerably less than UK Tory Prime Ministers.
    He doesn't, Sunak and Hunt are cutting spending, Biden has overseen the biggest US spending increase percentage wise of gdp since LBJ
    Which spending are they cutting?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I would just comment that neither my wife or I will swear allegiance to Charles

    BBC News - Coronation: Public asked to swear allegiance to King Charles
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65435426

    Charles is pushing his luck now. It's one thing we have to tolerate a pair of lying, cheating, adulterous bastards on the Throne, but to be forced to swear allegiance to them... Er no. Not happening.

    Roll on King William and Queen Catherine.
    He will be my King, of course I will swear allegiance to him as he is anointed by grace of God to be our monarch next Saturday
    To be fair your response is entirely consistent with your views

    However it is a minority view and increasingly so
    Yes, I wish him well and quite like him, but swearing allegiance feels a bit, well, un-British. It's the sort of thing Americans do.
    Depends what it is being asked. If they suggest say something wishing him well, would you not do it?

    “May the King soon recover the marbles he lost years ago.” For example.
    The order of service will read

    All who so desire, in the Abbey, and elsewhere, say together

    'I swear that I will pay true allegiance to Your Majesty, your heirs and successors according to law, so help me God'
    Swearing is bad manners :lol:
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,706
    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
  • TresTres Posts: 2,685
    Andy_JS said:

    "MATTHEW GOODWIN
    Our politicians are in thrall to a tiny cabal of Brexit and Boris hating progressive liberals who are out of touch"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22198908/matthew-goodwin-out-touch-liberals/

    It's always someone else's fault with these guys isn't it?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,488
    Meanwhile in Scotland, getting new ferries not the only issue:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65439336

    "Orkney ferry runs aground after smoke in engine room"
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
    RCP is run by a bunch of Conservative Evangelicals that cherry pick which polls to include. Use 538.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    HYUFD said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    Biden spends considerably less than UK Tory Prime Ministers.
    He doesn't, Sunak and Hunt are cutting spending, Biden has overseen the biggest US spending increase percentage wise of gdp since LBJ
    That's like saying I am a better sprinter than Usain Bolt because I am getting faster while he is slowing down.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    edited April 2023

    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
    My own view is:

    If Biden takes on Trump, Biden will win because America will vote for someone who is senile and doddery over someone who is mad and possibly evil every day and twice on Sunday's...

    If Biden takes on De Santis, Biden will lose... Because American will vote for someone who actually stands a good chance of being alive at the end of the four years over someone who is senile and doddery and if he makes it will be ***86*** in 2028...

    What is interesting to ponder is if Biden and Trump get the nominations but something happens to Biden in say late summer or early autumn 2024 and it finishes up being VP Harris Vs Trump... Then all bets are off...
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    The US is due to have faster growth than China this year at just under 3%.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Charles can suck it. I’m not swearing any allegiance to a man I didn’t vote for
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,706
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
    RCP is run by a bunch of Conservative Evangelicals that cherry pick which polls to include. Use 538.
    RCP is handier to copy-paste than 538, if you want to paste the 538 numbers then feel free...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    The US is due to have faster growth than China this year at just under 3%.
    No it’s not

    China is forecast to have 5.4% growth

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-economists-expect-5.4-GDP-growth-in-2023-survey
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    The US is due to have faster growth than China this year at just under 3%.
    No it’s not

    China is forecast to have 5.4% growth

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-economists-expect-5.4-GDP-growth-in-2023-survey
    More recent estimates are lower.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/us-growth-seen-outpacing-china-s-for-first-time-since-1976?leadSource=uverifywall#xj4y7vzkg
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,706
    Politico piece on how the key voting demographic of very old people seem to be pretty keen on electing a very old person:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/04/29/biden-advantage-older-voters-00094515
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    Asking the public to swear allegiance to Charles ?

    Utterly ridiculous idea that will annoy even those who don’t mind the monarchy . Some guff in the MOS about the People’s Coronation .

    Pass me the sick bag ! I say this as someone who doesn’t mind Charles and Camilla . I hope it all goes well but really this allegiance idea is ludicrous.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,878
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    The US is due to have faster growth than China this year at just under 3%.
    No it’s not

    China is forecast to have 5.4% growth

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-economists-expect-5.4-GDP-growth-in-2023-survey
    More recent estimates are lower.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/us-growth-seen-outpacing-china-s-for-first-time-since-1976?leadSource=uverifywall#xj4y7vzkg
    Bloomberg's Economic research team is fairly new, and doesn't (yet) have much of a track record. Plus, that article is from the middle of last year.

    I don't think the US will overtake China just yet, but the demographics will certainly favour the US going forward.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    The US is due to have faster growth than China this year at just under 3%.
    No it’s not

    China is forecast to have 5.4% growth

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-economists-expect-5.4-GDP-growth-in-2023-survey
    More recent estimates are lower.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/us-growth-seen-outpacing-china-s-for-first-time-since-1976?leadSource=uverifywall#xj4y7vzkg
    Er, your article is from May 2022, mine is from April 2023

    Otherwise, good point
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    The US is due to have faster growth than China this year at just under 3%.
    No it’s not

    China is forecast to have 5.4% growth

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-economists-expect-5.4-GDP-growth-in-2023-survey
    More recent estimates are lower.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/us-growth-seen-outpacing-china-s-for-first-time-since-1976?leadSource=uverifywall#xj4y7vzkg
    Er, your article is from May 2022, mine is from April 2023

    Otherwise, good point
    Article was linked recently and I misread the year. Point retracted.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,706
    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
    My own view is:

    If Biden takes on Trump, Biden will win because America will vote for someone who is senile and doddery over someone who is mad and possibly evil every day and twice on Sunday's...

    If Biden takes on De Santis, Biden will lose... Because American will vote for someone who actually stands a good chance of being alive at the end of the four years over someone who is senile and doddery and if he makes it will be ***86*** in 2028...

    What is interesting to ponder is if Biden and Trump get the nominations but something happens to Biden in say late summer or early autumn 2024 and it finishes up being VP Harris Vs Trump... Then all bets are off...
    I'm not convinced age is that much of a liability. The challenge against Diane Feinstein didn't get anywhere and she clearly had dementia at the time of the election. In Biden's case he's just old and always tripped over his words a bit, and he showed he was still sharp enough to run rings around the Congressional GOP at the State of the Union.

    If you want to run against somebody for being old it needs to be combined with a good Change story. I don't think DeSantis has that, he's hackish and uncharismatic and he's about to lose a fight with Mickey Mouse. If they want to bring that off they need somebody who actually feels fresh, like Nikki Haley or that Vivek guy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
    My own view is:

    If Biden takes on Trump, Biden will win because America will vote for someone who is senile and doddery over someone who is mad and possibly evil every day and twice on Sunday's...

    If Biden takes on De Santis, Biden will lose... Because American will vote for someone who actually stands a good chance of being alive at the end of the four years over someone who is senile and doddery and if he makes it will be ***86*** in 2028...

    What is interesting to ponder is if Biden and Trump get the nominations but something happens to Biden in say late summer or early autumn 2024 and it finishes up being VP Harris Vs Trump... Then all bets are off...
    I'm not convinced age is that much of a liability. The challenge against Diane Feinstein didn't get anywhere and she clearly had dementia at the time of the election. In Biden's case he's just old and always tripped over his words a bit, and he showed he was still sharp enough to run rings around the Congressional GOP at the State of the Union.

    If you want to run against somebody for being old it needs to be combined with a good Change story. I don't think DeSantis has that, he's hackish and uncharismatic and he's about to lose a fight with Mickey Mouse. If they want to bring that off they need somebody who actually feels fresh, like Nikki Haley or that Vivek guy.
    De Santis is a winner tho. He thrashed the Dems in Fla

    I reckon he’d beat Biden easily, unless Biden somehow managed to avoid all debates and nearly all campaigning
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    '@GovRonDeSantis
    .
    @CaseyDeSantis
    and I enjoyed meeting MP Kemi Badenoch, who is such a strong, outspoken leader in the United Kingdom.

    We share the same goal of spurring economic growth for our people and I look forward to continuing our relationship.'
    https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1652454281419563009?s=20

    Not sure that is a vote winner you think it might be
    2 proper conservatives like each other, hardly a surprise. Some things are about core ideological principles not just being all things to everyone
    Before I hit see previous posts I thought it was a thread about you getting my personal endorsement 🤭
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,706
    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
    My own view is:

    If Biden takes on Trump, Biden will win because America will vote for someone who is senile and doddery over someone who is mad and possibly evil every day and twice on Sunday's...

    If Biden takes on De Santis, Biden will lose... Because American will vote for someone who actually stands a good chance of being alive at the end of the four years over someone who is senile and doddery and if he makes it will be ***86*** in 2028...

    What is interesting to ponder is if Biden and Trump get the nominations but something happens to Biden in say late summer or early autumn 2024 and it finishes up being VP Harris Vs Trump... Then all bets are off...
    I'm not convinced age is that much of a liability. The challenge against Diane Feinstein didn't get anywhere and she clearly had dementia at the time of the election. In Biden's case he's just old and always tripped over his words a bit, and he showed he was still sharp enough to run rings around the Congressional GOP at the State of the Union.

    If you want to run against somebody for being old it needs to be combined with a good Change story. I don't think DeSantis has that, he's hackish and uncharismatic and he's about to lose a fight with Mickey Mouse. If they want to bring that off they need somebody who actually feels fresh, like Nikki Haley or that Vivek guy.
    De Santis is a winner tho. He thrashed the Dems in Fla

    I reckon he’d beat Biden easily, unless Biden somehow managed to avoid all debates and nearly all campaigning
    All Republicans thrash the Dems in Fla nowadays, it's demographics.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    rcs1000 said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    The US is due to have faster growth than China this year at just under 3%.
    No it’s not

    China is forecast to have 5.4% growth

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-economists-expect-5.4-GDP-growth-in-2023-survey
    More recent estimates are lower.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/us-growth-seen-outpacing-china-s-for-first-time-since-1976?leadSource=uverifywall#xj4y7vzkg
    Bloomberg's Economic research team is fairly new, and doesn't (yet) have much of a track record. Plus, that article is from the middle of last year.

    I don't think the US will overtake China just yet, but the demographics will certainly favour the US going forward.
    China’s nasty demographic problem won’t hit GDP for a while. 10-20 years. By then AI will have likely transformed the need for workers anyway.

    The winner of China V USA will be who has the best AI and who uses it in the cleverest way. Both sides are hampered. America by the urgent desire to keep AI ethical and Woke, China by the need to make AI conform to Xi Jinping thought. Probably both attempts are doomed. AI will do what it does

    Look at this AI multilingual voice cloning. Every day something wild but scary emerges


    https://twitter.com/play_ht/status/1651731027331796993?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    WillG said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    @Gardenwalker

    “Biden is pretty much the best we’ve got. “

    This is a statement which, uniquely, is intrinsically sad whether it is true or false. The mere fact a not-stupid person can say it is tinged with tragedy. It is the Decline of the West in a sentence

    Maybe.
    I don’t know.

    Biden seems to me an improvement on Trump, Bush Jr, and - if he continues as he is going - on Obama.

    Bush Sr was no shakes, Clinton deeply flawed.

    And then we’re back with Reagan, who was also old, and doddery, and not exactly an intellectual.
    Bush Snr and Clinton were a million miles better than Biden. Bush Snr won the Gulf War, led the Rio Summit on climate change and balanced the US budget. Clinton pushed through NAFTA and saw big economic growth and a low deficit.

    Reagan too won the cold war and saw an economic boom. Even Obama got Obamacare through.

    Biden is spending too much, US inflation is up and growth not too strong and he oversaw a disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin has invaded Ukraine on his watch.

    If US growth is not strong, god knows what we should make of UK “growth”.

    There is full employment in the US, inflation is falling rapidly, and Russia looks weaker than it has in generations.

    Biden is making the weather, on China and on the Chip Act, despite the perma-gridlock in the US political system.
    The US is due to have faster growth than China this year at just under 3%.
    No it’s not

    China is forecast to have 5.4% growth

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/China-economists-expect-5.4-GDP-growth-in-2023-survey
    More recent estimates are lower.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-20/us-growth-seen-outpacing-china-s-for-first-time-since-1976?leadSource=uverifywall#xj4y7vzkg
    Er, your article is from May 2022, mine is from April 2023

    Otherwise, good point
    Article was linked recently and I misread the year. Point retracted.
    No, Will. Don’t let Leon win.

    At least use the “posted the first draft of the reply by mistake” defence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
    My own view is:

    If Biden takes on Trump, Biden will win because America will vote for someone who is senile and doddery over someone who is mad and possibly evil every day and twice on Sunday's...

    If Biden takes on De Santis, Biden will lose... Because American will vote for someone who actually stands a good chance of being alive at the end of the four years over someone who is senile and doddery and if he makes it will be ***86*** in 2028...

    What is interesting to ponder is if Biden and Trump get the nominations but something happens to Biden in say late summer or early autumn 2024 and it finishes up being VP Harris Vs Trump... Then all bets are off...
    I'm not convinced age is that much of a liability. The challenge against Diane Feinstein didn't get anywhere and she clearly had dementia at the time of the election. In Biden's case he's just old and always tripped over his words a bit, and he showed he was still sharp enough to run rings around the Congressional GOP at the State of the Union.

    If you want to run against somebody for being old it needs to be combined with a good Change story. I don't think DeSantis has that, he's hackish and uncharismatic and he's about to lose a fight with Mickey Mouse. If they want to bring that off they need somebody who actually feels fresh, like Nikki Haley or that Vivek guy.
    De Santis is a winner tho. He thrashed the Dems in Fla

    I reckon he’d beat Biden easily, unless Biden somehow managed to avoid all debates and nearly all campaigning
    All Republicans thrash the Dems in Fla nowadays, it's demographics.
    That was not the narrative before he went and won. It was meant to be close
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    “My AI voice clone fooled my family, bank and Evan Spiegel. And my video clone + a script from ChatGPT made a pretty decent TikTok.

    We’re all going to be just fine.

    My latest video and column on the crazy—and creepy—world of voice and video AI:”

    https://twitter.com/joannastern/status/1652005809470025728?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.
    You subtract how much the scheme was nothing more than a "giveaway" to benefit those well-off enough to eat out anyway, In the deficit column you add how it boosted covid prolonging the agony of sick people and sick workforce. You look into what happened to businesses when it ceased, did it save any businesses or jobs.

    It only cost £850M though, so admittedly small fry compared to billions Sunak has wasted on other things.
    The 'well-off enough' being about 80% of the country and as it was capped at £10 proportionally benefitted the low paid.

    And as you say it was small fry compared to the spending then happening - why shouldn't the cleaners at my work place (and they certainly made used of EOTHO) not get help from the government when the likes of Michelle Mone were getting millions.

    As to prolonging covid if the government couldn't be bothered to stop people taking holidays in covid hotspots then why should it restrict people going to restaurants in this country at a time when new cases were only a thousand per day.
    What about some help now then?


  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,706
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    Even a senile Biden beats Trump, DeSantis, and dare I say it, Sunak, Macron, Scholz, Modi, Xi or Putin.

    Is that true? Polls show he loses to De Santis

    As for Biden beating ‘Sunak, Macron, Xi’ wtf are you on about? You seem oddly touchy
    The polling's a mess, who knows what this means (from RCP):

    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Wall Street Journal Trump 45, Biden 48 Biden +3
    4/21: Trump vs. Biden Harvard-Harris Trump 45, Biden 40 Trump +5
    4/27: Trump vs. Biden Emerson Trump 41, Biden 43 Biden +2

    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Wall Street Journal DeSantis 48, Biden 45 DeSantis +3
    4/21: DeSantis vs. Biden Harvard-Harris DeSantis 43, Biden 40 DeSantis +3
    4/27: DeSantis vs. Biden Emerson DeSantis 37, Biden 43 Biden +6
    My own view is:

    If Biden takes on Trump, Biden will win because America will vote for someone who is senile and doddery over someone who is mad and possibly evil every day and twice on Sunday's...

    If Biden takes on De Santis, Biden will lose... Because American will vote for someone who actually stands a good chance of being alive at the end of the four years over someone who is senile and doddery and if he makes it will be ***86*** in 2028...

    What is interesting to ponder is if Biden and Trump get the nominations but something happens to Biden in say late summer or early autumn 2024 and it finishes up being VP Harris Vs Trump... Then all bets are off...
    I'm not convinced age is that much of a liability. The challenge against Diane Feinstein didn't get anywhere and she clearly had dementia at the time of the election. In Biden's case he's just old and always tripped over his words a bit, and he showed he was still sharp enough to run rings around the Congressional GOP at the State of the Union.

    If you want to run against somebody for being old it needs to be combined with a good Change story. I don't think DeSantis has that, he's hackish and uncharismatic and he's about to lose a fight with Mickey Mouse. If they want to bring that off they need somebody who actually feels fresh, like Nikki Haley or that Vivek guy.
    De Santis is a winner tho. He thrashed the Dems in Fla

    I reckon he’d beat Biden easily, unless Biden somehow managed to avoid all debates and nearly all campaigning
    All Republicans thrash the Dems in Fla nowadays, it's demographics.
    That was not the narrative before he went and won. It was meant to be close
    The media talk like Florida is a 50/50 state out of habit. In reality it's 60/40. If you look at the other offices up on the same day DeSantis is just a normal incumbent, neither great nor terrible. He outperforms Rubio I guess, so there's that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Florida_elections
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    nico679 said:

    Asking the public to swear allegiance to Charles ?

    Utterly ridiculous idea that will annoy even those who don’t mind the monarchy . Some guff in the MOS about the People’s Coronation .

    Pass me the sick bag ! I say this as someone who doesn’t mind Charles and Camilla . I hope it all goes well but really this allegiance idea is ludicrous.

    I hope something goes horribly wrong like her out of Play School dropping the crown or somebody pisses themselves.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,488

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Raab's resignation/sacking has stalled Rishi's fightback IMO.

    Conservative recovery should get back on track as we go into the summer I'd think... However the clock continues to tick down to the election and Con are gonna run out of time to stop a (small) Labout majority in Election 24.

    Tick Tock...

    Hate to break this news to anyone who hasn’t got the memo yet. What’s stopping Rishi’s fight back and Tory recovery is Rishi. The fresh face has peaked. Labours hungry for power attack ads are working.
    If hes stopping the th recovery who would take them further? No names spring immediately to mind.

    Thats not praise of him, I just don't see who could galvanise more.
    Someone with more experience and gravitas for sure would do a better job than this. He is a politically inexperienced, accident prone, lightweight, dry right wing brexiteer. His ratings could really dive from here.
    In defence of Sunak, he's smart, hard working and reasonably honest. All the things that Johnson wasn't. His leadership skills are improving.

    His political agenda is a bit eccentric: the most important thing is to ensure billionaires, of which he happens to be one, hold onto all their wealth. But you can't have everything.
    Smart? In all history only two PMs have been given a criminal record whilst in office, and the guy you call smart is losing to Boris 2-1.

    Smart? value for tax payer money by fighting waste and fraud? Firstly eat out to help out. Secondly Covid loans fraud - not just tens of billions of tax payer money throw away but funded criminal enterprises, possibly terrorists, by Rishi just handing it out to them. Thirdly ongoing threat to the UK markets and economy from his dodgy Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    3 of his cabinet picks already gone for bullying and corruption.

    Similarly, reasonably honest? as the money man for a party on the make, one of the sleaziest and corrupt 4 years of government ever, especially around covid contracts and other schemes enriching government and its friends, Sunak has been at the heart of it all waving things through VIP lanes, signing everything off.

    Some of us don’t see him as smart or remotely honest. It’s a front that’s unraveling. Don’t see anything smart in what is an horrendous government CV. We beg to differ. That’s how it is.
    Why the hatred for EOTHO ?

    Covid was pouring back into the country on every flight from Malaga irrespective of people going to their local restaurant.

    EOTHO merely gave those who had followed the rules a reward and the restaurants a needed financial boost.
    You subtract how much the scheme was nothing more than a "giveaway" to benefit those well-off enough to eat out anyway, In the deficit column you add how it boosted covid prolonging the agony of sick people and sick workforce. You look into what happened to businesses when it ceased, did it save any businesses or jobs.

    It only cost £850M though, so admittedly small fry compared to billions Sunak has wasted on other things.
    The 'well-off enough' being about 80% of the country and as it was capped at £10 proportionally benefitted the low paid.

    And as you say it was small fry compared to the spending then happening - why shouldn't the cleaners at my work place (and they certainly made used of EOTHO) not get help from the government when the likes of Michelle Mone were getting millions.

    As to prolonging covid if the government couldn't be bothered to stop people taking holidays in covid hotspots then why should it restrict people going to restaurants in this country at a time when new cases were only a thousand per day.
    What about some help now then?


    I wonder if the benighted few who still work at The Indpendent still think themselves a cut above the Mail, Mirror etc...
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,955
    another_richard asked: "Namely if opinion polls show that governors are generally well thought [of] then why have they done so poorly in presidential primaries ?"

    In 2016, the Republicans had too many successful governors, the Democrats too few. And the few they had were mostly not suitable for national campaigns. And the malign influence of Bernie Sanders has made it hard for more moderate governors to prosper in Democratic primaries. (He's prospered, though, and is now a milionaire with three houses.)

    In 2000, the Bush campaign was somehow able to keep out many of the other Republican governors. Some became cabinet members.

    There is a larger point that should be mentioned: The US has serious problems that were ignored by most politicians of both parties -- and by our national media. That opened the way, on the Republican side, for an outsider demagogue.
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