Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

LAB’s Opinium voting lead over CON now 18% – up 4 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,162
edited May 2023 in General
LAB’s Opinium voting lead over CON now 18% – up 4 – politicalbetting.com

Latest @OpiniumResearch poll, 26-28 Apr, Lab 18pt leadLab 44% +2 since 14 AprCon 26% -2Best PMStarmer 28% ±0Sunak 26% -1Neither 31%

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    2nd like dishy Rishi
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    SKSFPE
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?
  • FPT

    I cannot be arsed to rewrite my morning thread which has been slightly contradicted by this Opinium finding.

    The latest poll also shows a slump in Sunak’s personal approval ratings, with 26% approving of the job he is doing and 44% disapproving. It puts him on a net approval of -18. Starmer is on -3 due to rounding – with 31% approving and 33% disapproving of his performance.

    Starmer also narrowly leads on who voters see as the best prime minister, by 28% to 26%. The pollsters said this continued a pattern which effectively sees the two leaders tied on this question.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    We’ll get another vire of public opinion from Thursday’s local elections.

    Should that be 'view?'
  • ydoethur said:

    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?

    Yes, everybody loves a lawyer.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    ydoethur said:

    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?

    Probably not, but what was John Oliver's slogan for Biden? "Probably adequate under the circumstances"?

    Imagine that, but with less enthusiasm.

    It shouldn't be enough, but it probably is.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    ydoethur said:

    We’ll get another vire of public opinion from Thursday’s local elections.

    Should that be 'view?'

    It's been corrected now. Shame really, I quite liked the idea that we were going to get another transfer of public opinion from the local elections.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Surely this is just noise? I’ve been reliably informed on here that we’re heading for crossover.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?

    Probably not, but what was John Oliver's slogan for Biden? "Probably adequate under the circumstances"?

    Imagine that, but with less enthusiasm.

    It shouldn't be enough, but it probably is.
    'Acceptable, under the circumstances.'
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Also FPT

    One poll does not a trend make. We all know this. We*1 all do it anyway. Poll comes out "Sunak doomed!". Another poll comes out "Sunak saved!". PB is not a good processor of information.

    *1 You. :smiley:
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited April 2023

    ydoethur said:

    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?

    Yes, everybody loves a lawyer.
    In a room there is an expensive lawyer, a cheap lawyer, the tooth fairy and a £10 note. The lights go out and when they go back on the £10 note has gone. Who took the £10 note?
  • OldBasingOldBasing Posts: 173
    I'm old enough to remember the incoming Labour lead in single digits thread header.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,424
    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,424
    Ghedebrav said:

    SKSFPE

    To be fair to @bigjohnowls you've got to give him credit for getting a brand new massive political meme going.

    Chapeau.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited April 2023
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?

    Yes, everybody loves a lawyer.
    In a room there is an expensive lawyer a cheap lawyer, the tooth fairy and a £10 note. The lights go out and when they go back on the £10.note has gone. Who took the £10 note?
    The expensive lawyer. Because the other two don't exist. Boom, boom.
    Indeed! It was told to.me as dentist but it covers lawyers
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    ydoethur said:

    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?

    Yes, everybody loves a lawyer.
    Lawyer versus billionaire hedge fund manager. Tough choice indeed.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    OldBasing said:

    I'm old enough to remember the incoming Labour lead in single digits thread header.

    Remember this one? Only nine months ago.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10687/the-next-con-poll-lead-in-september-looks-a-good-bet-politicalbetting-com#latest

    Tbf that's a lesson for us all not to read to much into current polls or trends.
  • ydoethur said:

    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?

    Yes, everybody loves a lawyer.
    In a room there is an expensive lawyer, a cheap lawyer, the tooth fairy and a £10 note. The lights go out and when they go back on the £10 note has gone. Who took the £10 note?
    What's a £10 note?
  • OldBasingOldBasing Posts: 173

    OldBasing said:

    I'm old enough to remember the incoming Labour lead in single digits thread header.

    Remember this one? Only nine months ago.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10687/the-next-con-poll-lead-in-september-looks-a-good-bet-politicalbetting-com#latest

    Tbf that's a lesson for us all not to read to much into current polls or trends.
    These tips have not been OGH's best ones.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    Ooooo, how unlucky is that?!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    ydoethur said:

    Is Britain up 4 Starmer?

    Yes, everybody loves a lawyer.
    I'm not THAT desperate :innocent:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    OldBasing said:

    I'm old enough to remember the incoming Labour lead in single digits thread header.

    Remember this one? Only nine months ago.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10687/the-next-con-poll-lead-in-september-looks-a-good-bet-politicalbetting-com#latest

    Tbf that's a lesson for us all not to read to much into current polls or trends.
    No Tory poll leads since 6th December 2021 (Redfield und Wilton).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,499
    viewcode said:

    Also FPT

    One poll does not a trend make. We all know this. We*1 all do it anyway. Poll comes out "Sunak doomed!". Another poll comes out "Sunak saved!". PB is not a good processor of information.

    *1 You. :smiley:

    Quite a few polls this week have the Tories and Sunak going backwards
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    And, if we're talking tax'n'spend, would mean taking a really big axe to some aspect of the health/welfare budgets. There's nowhere else where cuts can be had, really. And, especially if it's coupled to an eyecatching tax cut, that is going to struggle to fly politically.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    ydoethur said:

    Ooooo, how unlucky is that?!

    What?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    Ooooo, how unlucky is that?!

    What?
    Pots a red, accidentally knocks the black in along the top cushion.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited April 2023

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    The problem is, the Tories have run the country’s finances into the ground. There’s no money left to give away.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ooooo, how unlucky is that?!

    What?
    Pots a red, accidentally knocks the black in along the top cushion.
    Ah, snooker. Sounds like my kind of shot.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    And, if we're talking tax'n'spend, would mean taking a really big axe to some aspect of the health/welfare budgets. There's nowhere else where cuts can be had, really. And, especially if it's coupled to an eyecatching tax cut, that is going to struggle to fly politically.
    Tax and spend is the opposite of that, shirley?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ooooo, how unlucky is that?!

    What?
    Pots a red, accidentally knocks the black in along the top cushion.
    Ah, snooker. Sounds like my kind of shot.
    Cue a balls up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    A quick search can't find it, but there was a Bird and Fortune George Parr sketch that went something like

    If you offer voters a penny off the income tax rate, they'll think "this is simply a bribe and I'm not voting for anything as shameless as that." But if you offer them five pence off, they'll think "this is a shameless bribe... but it's a bloody good one..."
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    Wasn't that what Kwarteng tried to do last year, with explosive results? Actually I think it was a 1% cut in income tax plus bits and pieces on other taxes.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ooooo, how unlucky is that?!

    What?
    Pots a red, accidentally knocks the black in along the top cushion.
    Ah, snooker. Sounds like my kind of shot.
    Cue a balls up.
    That's a potted history of my snooker career.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    The problem is, the Tories have run the country’s finances into the ground. There’s no money left to give away.
    Do you believe a trifle like that would deter them if it would ensure a win?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,499

    Ghedebrav said:

    SKSFPE

    To be fair to @bigjohnowls you've got to give him credit for getting a brand new massive political meme going.

    Chapeau.
    you mean BJO please explain 😆

  • Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?

    The Lafferati will be along in a moment to explain that every tax rise leads to lower revenue raised.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,253
    Theweb said:

    When did absolutely everybody first start disliking Jews and giving them such a bad press? Does it start with the Jews having Jesus killed?

    Careful, that is another antisemitic trope. Two of them in fact. That Jews killed Jesus and more fundamentally that Jews did anything to deserve universal antisemitism.
    Yes. We have to be careful. But Jews were slaves of the Arabs, and everyone likes an under dog, as Moses leads them to freedom, with Gods help. so something changed at some point for anti semitism to begin. because they don’t deserve anti semitism so why does it exist? What its starting point?

    I have looked through the PDF and that “the Jews killed Jesus” is supposed to be a trope, and we are not allowed to mention it? However there is a lot of historical truth to it. I don’t think it’s an excuse for anti semitism, but looking at how Christians were in history, their bad treatment of Jews is on a par with their brutality towards those following Pagan religions, is that where it comes from? Anti semitism comes firstly from Christianity?

    Jesus was a Jew, and majority of the Jewish council didn’t like the trouble he was making, I think partly in fear of Romans using it as excuse for a clamp down, maybe also it wasn’t orthodox enough for Pharisee as he was mingling Greek philosophy particularly from Plato, the attack on money exchanges in the temple was a tipping point, so yes, it was other Jews who had Jesus crucified. Why can’t we mention that bit of history without being called anti Semitic?

    I do have a strong feeling anti-semitism is strong in Christemdom because of that. And the start of treating Jews as harshly as those following other pagan religion. unfairly bigging that fact up as Jews being anti christian.

    Christianity created and spread anti semitism through Europe and the world.

    Am I wrong?
    I think the roots of antisemitism go back to jews historic role as money lenders.
    Apart from the fact that money lending was one of the few trades the Jews were *allowed* to practise. They were explicitly barred from the Guilds, the Universities and from owning more than small pieces of land, in a number of countries.

    Antisemitism was around before all that happened….
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    FF43 said:

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    Wasn't that what Kwarteng tried to do last year, with explosive results? Actually I think it was a 1% cut in income tax plus bits and pieces on other taxes.
    Undermined by treacherous leftie bankers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?

    None, surely? Because NI is paid by employers and employees while ICT is paid by employees only.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    Clocked another twenty miles today and I’m now in Lorient. I’ve just got back from dinner at the best rated local crêperie. I’ve decided these are the best places to go for Breton food when there isn’t a restaurant I particularly want to go to

    Tonight I had a smoked salmon galette (a normally savoury, buckwheat crêpe) and a glass of wine. It cost me less than a tenner and I’m full

    I’ve returned to my very nice Best Western hotel where I have my first bain in the salle de bain (I have a bath!) and I’m running a hot one to soak in for a while

    I’ve also opened my first ever bottle of mead, or Chouchen as they call it here. It’s delicious. The sweetness is far less than I expected; it’s like an off-dry white, but with a hint of honey in the aftertaste

    My hot bath beckons..


    Are you going to visit the U-boat pens or is that the wrong kind of big old stonework?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,253
    On topic - Sunak has improved the Tory fortunes. But as foreseen, he can’t carry the party back into a lead.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    The problem is, the Tories have run the country’s finances into the ground. There’s no money left to give away.
    Do you believe a trifle like that would deter them if it would ensure a win?
    There's a problem for the Conservatives here though.

    A lot of their current decisions are basically about getting to 2024 and pushing the unexploded bombs in the intray of the next government. That works fine for them, as long as they aren't the next government...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,660
    Off narrative. Delicious.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Hmm... not quite what was expected and raises a question about the alleged trend.

    I don't think the multitude of public sector strikes are helping and the rejection of improved offers by various unions in the last week or so is not going to be doing the government any favours. Inflation staying above 10% wasn't great either. The government needs some better news to restore any trend in their favour.

    It does look like, contrary to the IMF projections, they will have one of the very best growth rates in Q1 where the EU and Eurozone figures in particular have been dreadful. But no doubt that will not get as much attention as the IMF forecasts.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    OldBasing said:

    I'm old enough to remember the incoming Labour lead in single digits thread header.

    Remember this one? Only nine months ago.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/10687/the-next-con-poll-lead-in-september-looks-a-good-bet-politicalbetting-com#latest

    Tbf that's a lesson for us all not to read to much into current polls or trends.
    I actually took that advice and my resulting ramping of Truss during September became so ingrained it has never stopped.
  • DavidL said:

    Hmm... not quite what was expected and raises a question about the alleged trend.

    I don't think the multitude of public sector strikes are helping and the rejection of improved offers by various unions in the last week or so is not going to be doing the government any favours. Inflation staying above 10% wasn't great either. The government needs some better news to restore any trend in their favour.

    It does look like, contrary to the IMF projections, they will have one of the very best growth rates in Q1 where the EU and Eurozone figures in particular have been dreadful. But no doubt that will not get as much attention as the IMF forecasts.

    Better News? Sunak did a (cringey) video for Matt Parmo Vickers hoping that Stockton Town FC would beat Long Eaton FC.

    They lost.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited April 2023

    Clocked another twenty miles today and I’m now in Lorient. I’ve just got back from dinner at the best rated local crêperie. I’ve decided these are the best places to go for Breton food when there isn’t a restaurant I particularly want to go to

    Tonight I had a smoked salmon galette (a normally savoury, buckwheat crêpe) and a glass of wine. It cost me less than a tenner and I’m full

    I’ve returned to my very nice Best Western hotel where I have my first bain in the salle de bain (I have a bath!) and I’m running a hot one to soak in for a while

    I’ve also opened my first ever bottle of mead, or Chouchen as they call it here. It’s delicious. The sweetness is far less than I expected; it’s like an off-dry white, but with a hint of honey in the aftertaste

    My hot bath beckons..


    Are you going to visit the U-boat pens or is that the wrong kind of big old stonework?
    In some of those old U-boat bunkers, it depends if one is a French citoyen or a subject of HMKCIII. Only the former are allowed tours. Can't remember which [edit] ports - I think it is an issue for Brest. Worth checking, unless you know from experience (which would be interesting).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?

    None, surely? Because NI is paid by employers and employees while ICT is paid by employees only.
    OTOH it would bring Tory voters and activists into the net - sorry, I mean pensioners and rentiers and dividend rather than salary-drawing small businesspersons
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883

    FF43 said:

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    Wasn't that what Kwarteng tried to do last year, with explosive results? Actually I think it was a 1% cut in income tax plus bits and pieces on other taxes.
    Undermined by treacherous leftie bankers.
    merchant bankers?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Carnyx said:

    Clocked another twenty miles today and I’m now in Lorient. I’ve just got back from dinner at the best rated local crêperie. I’ve decided these are the best places to go for Breton food when there isn’t a restaurant I particularly want to go to

    Tonight I had a smoked salmon galette (a normally savoury, buckwheat crêpe) and a glass of wine. It cost me less than a tenner and I’m full

    I’ve returned to my very nice Best Western hotel where I have my first bain in the salle de bain (I have a bath!) and I’m running a hot one to soak in for a while

    I’ve also opened my first ever bottle of mead, or Chouchen as they call it here. It’s delicious. The sweetness is far less than I expected; it’s like an off-dry white, but with a hint of honey in the aftertaste

    My hot bath beckons..


    Are you going to visit the U-boat pens or is that the wrong kind of big old stonework?
    In some of those old U-boat bunkers, it depends if one is a French citoyen or a subject of HMKCIII. Only the former are allowed tours. Can't remember which - I think it is an issue for Brest. Worth checking, unless you know from experience (which would be interesting).
    Heh, that happened to my Dad when we were on a family holiday there. Me and my brother were on my Mum's passport (back when kids were on Adult passports) so got to go inside while my poor Dad had to wait outside :lol:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    Rishi Sunak fan, you didn’t wait for us to ask you to explain.

    Please explain.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited April 2023
    CatMan said:

    Carnyx said:

    Clocked another twenty miles today and I’m now in Lorient. I’ve just got back from dinner at the best rated local crêperie. I’ve decided these are the best places to go for Breton food when there isn’t a restaurant I particularly want to go to

    Tonight I had a smoked salmon galette (a normally savoury, buckwheat crêpe) and a glass of wine. It cost me less than a tenner and I’m full

    I’ve returned to my very nice Best Western hotel where I have my first bain in the salle de bain (I have a bath!) and I’m running a hot one to soak in for a while

    I’ve also opened my first ever bottle of mead, or Chouchen as they call it here. It’s delicious. The sweetness is far less than I expected; it’s like an off-dry white, but with a hint of honey in the aftertaste

    My hot bath beckons..


    Are you going to visit the U-boat pens or is that the wrong kind of big old stonework?
    In some of those old U-boat bunkers, it depends if one is a French citoyen or a subject of HMKCIII. Only the former are allowed tours. Can't remember which - I think it is an issue for Brest. Worth checking, unless you know from experience (which would be interesting).
    Heh, that happened to my Dad when we were on a family holiday there. Me and my brother were on my Mum's passport (back when kids were on Adult passports) so got to go inside while my poor Dad had to wait outside :lol:
    Oddly, though, and happily, Mrs C and I were allowed on a modern frigate of La Royale on a UK port call some years back despite not being French - though with French friends as initiators of our coming on the guided tour.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Kaboom! 97 here we go!
  • Clocked another twenty miles today and I’m now in Lorient. I’ve just got back from dinner at the best rated local crêperie. I’ve decided these are the best places to go for Breton food when there isn’t a restaurant I particularly want to go to

    Tonight I had a smoked salmon galette (a normally savoury, buckwheat crêpe) and a glass of wine. It cost me less than a tenner and I’m full

    I’ve returned to my very nice Best Western hotel where I have my first bain in the salle de bain (I have a bath!) and I’m running a hot one to soak in for a while

    I’ve also opened my first ever bottle of mead, or Chouchen as they call it here. It’s delicious. The sweetness is far less than I expected; it’s like an off-dry white, but with a hint of honey in the aftertaste

    My hot bath beckons..


    Are you going to visit the U-boat pens or is that the wrong kind of big old stonework?
    I’d be interested to see them but doubt they’d be open on a Sunday at the time I’ll be setting off

    And on this journey I prefer sites I can see while stopping for a beer break!

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    The problem is, the Tories have run the country’s finances into the ground. There’s no money left to give away.
    Do you believe a trifle like that would deter them if it would ensure a win?
    There's a problem for the Conservatives here though.

    A lot of their current decisions are basically about getting to 2024 and pushing the unexploded bombs in the intray of the next government. That works fine for them, as long as they aren't the next government...
    They'd be mad not to buy the win and keep the gravy train on the track.

    Something might then come along for them to ensure another win in 2028.

    (I wasn't being entirely serious about the 10p reduction by the way. I imagine the win will come from some outrageously populist policy from Suella.My money is on capital sentencing for Rotherham taxi drivers.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    He's sealed the deal! He IS Tony Blair!
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    Tut. McX is so passe when talking about a Scot, as well as highly inaccurate for a Lowlander.

    And why focus on that aspect of Mr Brown?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Carnyx said:

    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    Tut. McX is so passe when talking about a Scot, as well as highly inaccurate for a Lowlander.

    And why focus on that aspect of Mr Brown?
    Brown was bonkers and his smile/grin was so false, its amazing it was ever allowed out...
  • Looking at the V003 data tables for Opinium https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/VI-2023-04-26-Observer-Data-Tables-Upload.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C45%, L16%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know22%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L78%, LD3%, G5%, Don't Know11%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C4%, L22%, LD50%, G3%, Don't Know20%.

    If you compare the Opinium tables on the 2nd November 2022 (ie 6 months ago at the start of Rishi premiership) https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/VI-2022-11-02-Observer-Data-Tables.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C46%, L14%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know24%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L83%, LD2%, G3%, Don't Know7%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C3%, L34%, LD37%, G6%, Don't Know18%.

    So during the 6 month period there has been basically no change in the Conservative 2019 voters. Labour 2019 voters have slightly moved from Labour to Don't Know (the Starmer effect) and the LD 2019 voters have firmed back up to support the LDs.

    So the only party having any impact is the LDs?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    Clocked another twenty miles today and I’m now in Lorient. I’ve just got back from dinner at the best rated local crêperie. I’ve decided these are the best places to go for Breton food when there isn’t a restaurant I particularly want to go to

    Tonight I had a smoked salmon galette (a normally savoury, buckwheat crêpe) and a glass of wine. It cost me less than a tenner and I’m full

    I’ve returned to my very nice Best Western hotel where I have my first bain in the salle de bain (I have a bath!) and I’m running a hot one to soak in for a while

    I’ve also opened my first ever bottle of mead, or Chouchen as they call it here. It’s delicious. The sweetness is far less than I expected; it’s like an off-dry white, but with a hint of honey in the aftertaste

    My hot bath beckons..


    Are you going to visit the U-boat pens or is that the wrong kind of big old stonework?
    I’d be interested to see them but doubt they’d be open on a Sunday at the time I’ll be setting off

    And on this journey I prefer sites I can see while stopping for a beer break!

    My partner happens to be in Lyon at the mo and says they’re having a good old May Day weekend there, suppose it’ll be the same where you are. She’s not as bothered about beer breaks but she couldn’t get a restaurant seat for love or money, salad from Carriefour tonight..
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,499

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    The problem is, the Tories have run the country’s finances into the ground. There’s no money left to give away.
    Do you believe a trifle like that would deter them if it would ensure a win?
    A last minute pre election tax cut, with public services falling apart and borrowing repayments high, funded by Sunak and Hunt’s sneaky fiscal drag? How does taking with one hand and giving a bit of it back with another, at the last minute after all these years of failure and chaos, boost a party in the polls? The sheer cheek of it will most likely take points off their poll rating. 😦
  • I went for a galette at the best rated crêperie in Carnac last night

    I had a bacon, emmental, chèvre, walnut, and rocquefort sauce galette

    It was called the Cul D’Poule

    I asked if that means “chicken’s ass”. Apparently it does

    If you put the e back in (cul de poule), it means the same but is idiomatically a phrase that means “mixing bowl”

    I love French idiom
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Theweb said:

    DavidL said:

    Hmm... not quite what was expected and raises a question about the alleged trend.

    I don't think the multitude of public sector strikes are helping and the rejection of improved offers by various unions in the last week or so is not going to be doing the government any favours. Inflation staying above 10% wasn't great either. The government needs some better news to restore any trend in their favour.

    It does look like, contrary to the IMF projections, they will have one of the very best growth rates in Q1 where the EU and Eurozone figures in particular have been dreadful. But no doubt that will not get as much attention as the IMF forecasts.

    Whether or not we are in a technical recession is irrelevant if peoples standard of living is declining.
    I don't agree. If people are reading positive economic news they are more likely to be optimistic going forward, even if things are not good now. Not being good now and very poor future projections is bad news for any incumbent government.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385
    edited April 2023
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?

    None, surely? Because NI is paid by employers and employees while ICT is paid by employees only.
    OTOH it would bring Tory voters and activists into the net - sorry, I mean pensioners and rentiers and dividend rather than salary-drawing small businesspersons
    Dividends and rents are charged on different rates.

    I would be surprised if the extra money raised that way compensated for the loss of the double counting NI leads to, but I could easily be wrong. Most pensioners are not leading lives of luxury and many that are are drawing on capital, but there are some with higher incomes.

    It would be worth doing for its own sake, as part of a wider simplification of the tax system, but it won't be.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,428

    Looking at the V003 data tables for Opinium https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/VI-2023-04-26-Observer-Data-Tables-Upload.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C45%, L16%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know22%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L78%, LD3%, G5%, Don't Know11%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C4%, L22%, LD50%, G3%, Don't Know20%.

    If you compare the Opinium tables on the 2nd November 2022 (ie 6 months ago at the start of Rishi premiership) https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/VI-2022-11-02-Observer-Data-Tables.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C46%, L14%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know24%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L83%, LD2%, G3%, Don't Know7%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C3%, L34%, LD37%, G6%, Don't Know18%.

    So during the 6 month period there has been basically no change in the Conservative 2019 voters. Labour 2019 voters have slightly moved from Labour to Don't Know (the Starmer effect) and the LD 2019 voters have firmed back up to support the LDs.

    So the only party having any impact is the LDs?

    Interesting summary, thanks.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Carnyx said:

    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    Tut. McX is so passe when talking about a Scot, as well as highly inaccurate for a Lowlander.

    And why focus on that aspect of Mr Brown?
    Brown was bonkers and his smile/grin was so false, its amazing it was ever allowed out...
    That's better, rather than going on about him being Scottish and McWhatsit. It is at least an argued statement of possibly rational opinion.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?

    None, surely? Because NI is paid by employers and employees while ICT is paid by employees only.
    Now, now, don't be obtuse. I decided PBers were astute enough to appreciate I meant employee / self-employed NI contributions; I didn't think I needed to spell it out.

    But to be clear how much would be raised by extending individual NI to all income? Or by reducing employee/self-employed NI to 0% and increasing the basic rate of income tax by 13.8% to to 33.8%.?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,253

    Clocked another twenty miles today and I’m now in Lorient. I’ve just got back from dinner at the best rated local crêperie. I’ve decided these are the best places to go for Breton food when there isn’t a restaurant I particularly want to go to

    Tonight I had a smoked salmon galette (a normally savoury, buckwheat crêpe) and a glass of wine. It cost me less than a tenner and I’m full

    I’ve returned to my very nice Best Western hotel where I have my first bain in the salle de bain (I have a bath!) and I’m running a hot one to soak in for a while

    I’ve also opened my first ever bottle of mead, or Chouchen as they call it here. It’s delicious. The sweetness is far less than I expected; it’s like an off-dry white, but with a hint of honey in the aftertaste

    My hot bath beckons..


    Are you going to visit the U-boat pens or is that the wrong kind of big old stonework?
    I’d be interested to see them but doubt they’d be open on a Sunday at the time I’ll be setting off

    And on this journey I prefer sites I can see while stopping for a beer break!

    https://www.la-flore.fr/en
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?

    None, surely? Because NI is paid by employers and employees while ICT is paid by employees only.
    OTOH it would bring Tory voters and activists into the net - sorry, I mean pensioners and rentiers and dividend rather than salary-drawing small businesspersons
    Dividends and rents are charged on different rates.

    I would be surprised if the extra money raised that way compensated for the loss of the double counting NI leads to, but I could easily be wrong. Most pensioners are not leading lives of luxury and many that are are drawing on capital, but there are some with higher incomes.

    It would be worth doing for its own sake, as part of a wider simplification of the tax system, but it won't be.
    That too about the different rates, yes.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    The problem is, the Tories have run the country’s finances into the ground. There’s no money left to give away.
    Indeed. If Liam Byrne were a 2024 Tory, that would be a whole different level of note.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    Tut. McX is so passe when talking about a Scot, as well as highly inaccurate for a Lowlander.

    And why focus on that aspect of Mr Brown?
    Brown was bonkers and his smile/grin was so false, its amazing it was ever allowed out...
    That's better, rather than going on about him being Scottish and McWhatsit. It is at least an argued statement of possibly rational opinion.
    Don't be so precious. .. and I don't need your approval.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,428

    Yes, tax rises, council tax rises and energy bill support withdrawal all kicking in at month end just before the polls. Not good for Sunak.

    The 1p off income tax trick work for him in April 2024 either, just as it didn't for Ken Clarke in 1996.

    He will need to do something massive that doesn't undercut his LTEPII message.

    On the other hand a 10p reduction in income tax might have the desired effect. Hell, even I'd vote for him.

    Clarke wasn't ambitious enough.
    The problem is, the Tories have run the country’s finances into the ground. There’s no money left to give away.
    Do you believe a trifle like that would deter them if it would ensure a win?
    A last minute pre election tax cut, with public services falling apart and borrowing repayments high, funded by Sunak and Hunt’s sneaky fiscal drag? How does taking with one hand and giving a bit of it back with another, at the last minute after all these years of failure and chaos, boost a party in the polls? The sheer cheek of it will most likely take points off their poll rating. 😦
    I think people might be overestimating Sunak and Hunt's desire to win the next election. Sunak's bags will already be packed for Santa Monica, to cash in his US toadying, and Hunt will no doubt have other career plans. It will all be blamed on 'the Tory brand that we just couldn't turn around'. Why would they want to actually stay in and face the music?
  • Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    You tell me https://twitter.com/Matt_VickersMP/status/1652223631634714627
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,385

    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?

    None, surely? Because NI is paid by employers and employees while ICT is paid by employees only.
    Now, now, don't be obtuse. I decided PBers were astute enough to appreciate I meant employee / self-employed NI contributions; I didn't think I needed to spell it out.

    But to be clear how much would be raised by extending individual NI to all income? Or by reducing employee/self-employed NI to 0% and increasing the basic rate of income tax by 13.8% to to 33.8%.?
    You asked how much additional revenue would be raised. Therefore, we had to consider how much NI's structure raises.

    If you'd said 'how much additional tax would people have to pay' that would have been different.
  • Looking at the V003 data tables for Opinium https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/VI-2023-04-26-Observer-Data-Tables-Upload.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C45%, L16%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know22%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L78%, LD3%, G5%, Don't Know11%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C4%, L22%, LD50%, G3%, Don't Know20%.

    If you compare the Opinium tables on the 2nd November 2022 (ie 6 months ago at the start of Rishi premiership) https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/VI-2022-11-02-Observer-Data-Tables.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C46%, L14%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know24%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L83%, LD2%, G3%, Don't Know7%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C3%, L34%, LD37%, G6%, Don't Know18%.

    So during the 6 month period there has been basically no change in the Conservative 2019 voters. Labour 2019 voters have slightly moved from Labour to Don't Know (the Starmer effect) and the LD 2019 voters have firmed back up to support the LDs.

    So the only party having any impact is the LDs?

    So I am one of a 3% Interesting...
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited April 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Does anyone know how much additional revenue would be raised by rolling NI into ICT?

    None, surely? Because NI is paid by employers and employees while ICT is paid by employees only.
    OTOH it would bring Tory voters and activists into the net - sorry, I mean pensioners and rentiers and dividend rather than salary-drawing small businesspersons
    Dividends and rents are charged on different rates.

    I would be surprised if the extra money raised that way compensated for the loss of the double counting NI leads to, but I could easily be wrong. Most pensioners are not leading lives of luxury and many that are are drawing on capital, but there are some with higher incomes.

    It would be worth doing for its own sake, as part of a wider simplification of the tax system, but it won't be.
    Politically I think there is scope to change tax rules so higher income pensioners so they end up paying an amount of tax closer to working age people with similar incomes, by adding in something similar to NI. They will complain about it, but more widely, as long as people understand it is just the rich pensioners who are paying more, it won't be controversial or seen as a particularly severe injustice.
  • People don't read economic news much. Meanwhile if the powers that be tell them the economy is doing well while they are not then they assume the figures are fixed or they are being lied to. I don't say they are right to do so but that does not alter the reality. For a Govt to benefit from economic recovery it needs to feed through to the mass of the population before an election. John Major and Ken Clarke can tell you that.

    Meanwhile, I'd be careful about tonight's poll. It looks like a probable outlier. However, we shall see over the next few polls and most importantly the next Opinium one.

    Expect the Local Elections will show a much lower Lab lead but also a much larger vote for the Lib Dems/Greens. Watch the Conservative figures. Anything less than several hundred gains and they are in real trouble. With several hundred gains on their 2019 effort (which got Mrs May fired remember) then they have a chance of pulling back. Especially if they over-perform in areas rich in competitive Parliamentary seats.
  • Clocked another twenty miles today and I’m now in Lorient. I’ve just got back from dinner at the best rated local crêperie. I’ve decided these are the best places to go for Breton food when there isn’t a restaurant I particularly want to go to

    Tonight I had a smoked salmon galette (a normally savoury, buckwheat crêpe) and a glass of wine. It cost me less than a tenner and I’m full

    I’ve returned to my very nice Best Western hotel where I have my first bain in the salle de bain (I have a bath!) and I’m running a hot one to soak in for a while

    I’ve also opened my first ever bottle of mead, or Chouchen as they call it here. It’s delicious. The sweetness is far less than I expected; it’s like an off-dry white, but with a hint of honey in the aftertaste

    My hot bath beckons..


    Are you going to visit the U-boat pens or is that the wrong kind of big old stonework?
    I’d be interested to see them but doubt they’d be open on a Sunday at the time I’ll be setting off

    And on this journey I prefer sites I can see while stopping for a beer break!

    My partner happens to be in Lyon at the mo and says they’re having a good old May Day weekend there, suppose it’ll be the same where you are. She’s not as bothered about beer breaks but she couldn’t get a restaurant seat for love or money, salad from Carriefour tonight..
    It was definitely harder to find a room tonight. There wasn’t an AirBnB apartment available in the Lorient area at all
  • DavidL said:

    Theweb said:

    DavidL said:

    Hmm... not quite what was expected and raises a question about the alleged trend.

    I don't think the multitude of public sector strikes are helping and the rejection of improved offers by various unions in the last week or so is not going to be doing the government any favours. Inflation staying above 10% wasn't great either. The government needs some better news to restore any trend in their favour.

    It does look like, contrary to the IMF projections, they will have one of the very best growth rates in Q1 where the EU and Eurozone figures in particular have been dreadful. But no doubt that will not get as much attention as the IMF forecasts.

    Whether or not we are in a technical recession is irrelevant if peoples standard of living is declining.
    I don't agree. If people are reading positive economic news they are more likely to be optimistic going forward, even if things are not good now. Not being good now and very poor future projections is bad news for any incumbent government.
    The problem is this. Tories keep proclaiming positive economic news - such as inflation is falling. In the real world people look at the evidence of their lives, and think for good reason the Tories are lying to them.

    I have no problem with positive spin. Even if a political message is an outright lie, if you can make people believe it to be true then you are in business.

    Tories are telling open lies. And their mince intake of 2019 are so dumb that they don't know its a lie. Which is why they sound so catastrophically out of touch.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    People don't read economic news much. Meanwhile if the powers that be tell them the economy is doing well while they are not then they assume the figures are fixed or they are being lied to. I don't say they are right to do so but that does not alter the reality. For a Govt to benefit from economic recovery it needs to feed through to the mass of the population before an election. John Major and Ken Clarke can tell you that.

    Meanwhile, I'd be careful about tonight's poll. It looks like a probable outlier. However, we shall see over the next few polls and most importantly the next Opinium one.

    Expect the Local Elections will show a much lower Lab lead but also a much larger vote for the Lib Dems/Greens. Watch the Conservative figures. Anything less than several hundred gains and they are in real trouble. With several hundred gains on their 2019 effort (which got Mrs May fired remember) then they have a chance of pulling back. Especially if they over-perform in areas rich in competitive Parliamentary seats.

    Tory result management is saying the Tories expect to lose 1,000 or so seats

    Labour expect to win 400 extra seats

    So we can assume that's their worst case planning...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    DavidL said:

    Theweb said:

    DavidL said:

    Hmm... not quite what was expected and raises a question about the alleged trend.

    I don't think the multitude of public sector strikes are helping and the rejection of improved offers by various unions in the last week or so is not going to be doing the government any favours. Inflation staying above 10% wasn't great either. The government needs some better news to restore any trend in their favour.

    It does look like, contrary to the IMF projections, they will have one of the very best growth rates in Q1 where the EU and Eurozone figures in particular have been dreadful. But no doubt that will not get as much attention as the IMF forecasts.

    Whether or not we are in a technical recession is irrelevant if peoples standard of living is declining.
    I don't agree. If people are reading positive economic news they are more likely to be optimistic going forward, even if things are not good now. Not being good now and very poor future projections is bad news for any incumbent government.
    I disagree that reading positive news would have much effect. If things are neutral maybe it would make people more optimistic, but if they've had years of shit they'll just disbelieve it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    eek said:

    People don't read economic news much. Meanwhile if the powers that be tell them the economy is doing well while they are not then they assume the figures are fixed or they are being lied to. I don't say they are right to do so but that does not alter the reality. For a Govt to benefit from economic recovery it needs to feed through to the mass of the population before an election. John Major and Ken Clarke can tell you that.

    Meanwhile, I'd be careful about tonight's poll. It looks like a probable outlier. However, we shall see over the next few polls and most importantly the next Opinium one.

    Expect the Local Elections will show a much lower Lab lead but also a much larger vote for the Lib Dems/Greens. Watch the Conservative figures. Anything less than several hundred gains and they are in real trouble. With several hundred gains on their 2019 effort (which got Mrs May fired remember) then they have a chance of pulling back. Especially if they over-perform in areas rich in competitive Parliamentary seats.

    Tory result management is saying the Tories expect to lose 1,000 or so seats

    Labour expect to win 400 extra seats

    So we can assume that's their worst case planning...
    Its Corbyn's locals campaigns in reverse with the level of management going on. At this rate the return of a single tory in the deepest blue shire will be seen as a decent result.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,499

    Looking at the V003 data tables for Opinium https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/VI-2023-04-26-Observer-Data-Tables-Upload.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C45%, L16%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know22%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L78%, LD3%, G5%, Don't Know11%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C4%, L22%, LD50%, G3%, Don't Know20%.

    If you compare the Opinium tables on the 2nd November 2022 (ie 6 months ago at the start of Rishi premiership) https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/VI-2022-11-02-Observer-Data-Tables.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C46%, L14%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know24%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L83%, LD2%, G3%, Don't Know7%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C3%, L34%, LD37%, G6%, Don't Know18%.

    So during the 6 month period there has been basically no change in the Conservative 2019 voters. Labour 2019 voters have slightly moved from Labour to Don't Know (the Starmer effect) and the LD 2019 voters have firmed back up to support the LDs.

    So the only party having any impact is the LDs?

    It’s showing 2019 Con to Lab +2% 14 to 16 since Sunak became PM? And Tory D/K increasing. All this whilst Sunak has recovered the Tory poll rating? Unless I’m reading it wrong?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874

    Looking at the V003 data tables for Opinium https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/VI-2023-04-26-Observer-Data-Tables-Upload.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C45%, L16%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know22%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L78%, LD3%, G5%, Don't Know11%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C4%, L22%, LD50%, G3%, Don't Know20%.

    If you compare the Opinium tables on the 2nd November 2022 (ie 6 months ago at the start of Rishi premiership) https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/VI-2022-11-02-Observer-Data-Tables.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C46%, L14%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know24%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L83%, LD2%, G3%, Don't Know7%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C3%, L34%, LD37%, G6%, Don't Know18%.

    So during the 6 month period there has been basically no change in the Conservative 2019 voters. Labour 2019 voters have slightly moved from Labour to Don't Know (the Starmer effect) and the LD 2019 voters have firmed back up to support the LDs.

    So the only party having any impact is the LDs?

    As has been said, this is a very interesting analysis. I think it was 46% retention in the YouGov this week and 53% with Redfield & Wilton (the latter has 15% Labour and 17% DK).

    Opinium's England VI is Labour 45%, Conservative 28%, Liberal Democrat 10%, Reform 8% and Green 7%. That's a 15% swing from Conservative to Labour which matches the similar samples from YouGov and Redfield & Wilton. The swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat is 8.5%.

    A 15% swing would reduce the Conservative Parliamentary Party by more than half its present number to be around or just above its 1997 and 2001 strength but that of course doesn't allow for tactical voting.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited April 2023
    DavidL said:

    Hmm... not quite what was expected and raises a question about the alleged trend.

    I don't think the multitude of public sector strikes are helping and the rejection of improved offers by various unions in the last week or so is not going to be doing the government any favours. Inflation staying above 10% wasn't great either. The government needs some better news to restore any trend in their favour.

    It does look like, contrary to the IMF projections, they will have one of the very best growth rates in Q1 where the EU and Eurozone figures in particular have been dreadful. But no doubt that will not get as much attention as the IMF forecasts.

    The spectre looming over the UK economy is two year fixed rate mortgages rolling off this year with new interest rates more than double the previous term.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited April 2023

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    Tut. McX is so passe when talking about a Scot, as well as highly inaccurate for a Lowlander.

    And why focus on that aspect of Mr Brown?
    Brown was bonkers and his smile/grin was so false, its amazing it was ever allowed out...
    That's better, rather than going on about him being Scottish and McWhatsit. It is at least an argued statement of possibly rational opinion.
    Don't be so precious. .. and I don't need your approval.
    Couldn't give a vinegar nematode worm's fuck about approving you or otherwise. It's your relentless petty nationalism, in the insistence that Mr Brown's deleterious characteristics incluyde his being Scottish, that is objectionable.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,428
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    Tut. McX is so passe when talking about a Scot, as well as highly inaccurate for a Lowlander.

    And why focus on that aspect of Mr Brown?
    Brown was bonkers and his smile/grin was so false, its amazing it was ever allowed out...
    That's better, rather than going on about him being Scottish and McWhatsit. It is at least an argued statement of possibly rational opinion.
    Don't be so precious. .. and I don't need your approval.
    Couldn't give a vinegar nematode worm's fuck about approving you or otherwise. It's your relentless petty nationalism, in the insistence that Mr Brown's deleterious characteristics incluyde his being Scottish, that is objectionable.
    On the contrary, I can't see anyone going neserk, at least publicly. I think there's a consensus here that it's an outdated situation, with most opting for a form of abolition of employees NI, rolling it into income tax that everyone pays.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kinabalu said:

    He's sealed the deal! He IS Tony Blair!

    That sounds like an @ydoethur comment on the test match, just before England lose four wickets for zip.

    You’re tempting fate.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647

    DavidL said:

    Theweb said:

    DavidL said:

    Hmm... not quite what was expected and raises a question about the alleged trend.

    I don't think the multitude of public sector strikes are helping and the rejection of improved offers by various unions in the last week or so is not going to be doing the government any favours. Inflation staying above 10% wasn't great either. The government needs some better news to restore any trend in their favour.

    It does look like, contrary to the IMF projections, they will have one of the very best growth rates in Q1 where the EU and Eurozone figures in particular have been dreadful. But no doubt that will not get as much attention as the IMF forecasts.

    Whether or not we are in a technical recession is irrelevant if peoples standard of living is declining.
    I don't agree. If people are reading positive economic news they are more likely to be optimistic going forward, even if things are not good now. Not being good now and very poor future projections is bad news for any incumbent government.
    The problem is this. Tories keep proclaiming positive economic news - such as inflation is falling. In the real world people look at the evidence of their lives, and think for good reason the Tories are lying to them.

    I have no problem with positive spin. Even if a political message is an outright lie, if you can make people believe it to be true then you are in business.

    Tories are telling open lies. And their mince intake of 2019 are so dumb that they don't know its a lie. Which is why they sound so catastrophically out of touch.
    Between interest rate rises and the rise in utilities bills, I reckon on being about £750 per month worse off, even before other bits of inflation.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,499

    Looking at the V003 data tables for Opinium https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/VI-2023-04-26-Observer-Data-Tables-Upload.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C45%, L16%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know22%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L78%, LD3%, G5%, Don't Know11%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C4%, L22%, LD50%, G3%, Don't Know20%.

    If you compare the Opinium tables on the 2nd November 2022 (ie 6 months ago at the start of Rishi premiership) https://www.opinium.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/VI-2022-11-02-Observer-Data-Tables.xlsx

    The 2019 conservative voters are going C46%, L14%, LD3%, G2%, R8%, Don't Know24%
    The 2019 Labour voters are going C1%, L83%, LD2%, G3%, Don't Know7%
    The 2019 LD voters are going C3%, L34%, LD37%, G6%, Don't Know18%.

    So during the 6 month period there has been basically no change in the Conservative 2019 voters. Labour 2019 voters have slightly moved from Labour to Don't Know (the Starmer effect) and the LD 2019 voters have firmed back up to support the LDs.

    So the only party having any impact is the LDs?

    So I am one of a 3% Interesting...
    Don’t let it go to your head.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    eek said:

    People don't read economic news much. Meanwhile if the powers that be tell them the economy is doing well while they are not then they assume the figures are fixed or they are being lied to. I don't say they are right to do so but that does not alter the reality. For a Govt to benefit from economic recovery it needs to feed through to the mass of the population before an election. John Major and Ken Clarke can tell you that.

    Meanwhile, I'd be careful about tonight's poll. It looks like a probable outlier. However, we shall see over the next few polls and most importantly the next Opinium one.

    Expect the Local Elections will show a much lower Lab lead but also a much larger vote for the Lib Dems/Greens. Watch the Conservative figures. Anything less than several hundred gains and they are in real trouble. With several hundred gains on their 2019 effort (which got Mrs May fired remember) then they have a chance of pulling back. Especially if they over-perform in areas rich in competitive Parliamentary seats.

    Tory result management is saying the Tories expect to lose 1,000 or so seats

    Labour expect to win 400 extra seats

    So we can assume that's their worst case planning...
    Which suggests both parties think Labour will gain about 600 seats.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    Tut. McX is so passe when talking about a Scot, as well as highly inaccurate for a Lowlander.

    And why focus on that aspect of Mr Brown?
    Brown was bonkers and his smile/grin was so false, its amazing it was ever allowed out...
    That's better, rather than going on about him being Scottish and McWhatsit. It is at least an argued statement of possibly rational opinion.
    Don't be so precious. .. and I don't need your approval.
    Couldn't give a vinegar nematode worm's fuck about approving you or otherwise. It's your relentless petty nationalism, in the insistence that Mr Brown's deleterious characteristics incluyde his being Scottish, that is objectionable.
    He was Scottish. He was often called Mc Doom.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Is Sunaks you tube video as bad as Gordon McDoom's. I've been going round the Country effort ..which was vomit inducing....

    Tut. McX is so passe when talking about a Scot, as well as highly inaccurate for a Lowlander.

    And why focus on that aspect of Mr Brown?
    Brown was bonkers and his smile/grin was so false, its amazing it was ever allowed out...
    That's better, rather than going on about him being Scottish and McWhatsit. It is at least an argued statement of possibly rational opinion.
    Don't be so precious. .. and I don't need your approval.
    Couldn't give a vinegar nematode worm's fuck about approving you or otherwise. It's your relentless petty nationalism, in the insistence that Mr Brown's deleterious characteristics incluyde his being Scottish, that is objectionable.
    On the contrary, I can't see anyone going neserk, at least publicly. I think there's a consensus here that it's an outdated situation, with most opting for a form of abolition of employees NI, rolling it into income tax that everyone pays.
    I deleted it as on reflection quite a few PB Tories, former or otherwise, indeed aren't happuy with the NI situation. However, the only true Tory in the PB Village in recent months certainly praised Tory NI policy to the skies over the last year, so it depends whom one is thinking about!
This discussion has been closed.