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Trump’s indictment not going down well with independents – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,175

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
  • A by election in Glasgow Southside is rumoured? I'm about to jet off on holiday tomorrow, this is very inconvenient timing, I need to be on the sofa with snacks watching the SNP implode.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,595
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    About that narrowing thing. What am I missing?


    You need to stare at it a bit longer.
    Where is @MoonRabbit to explain something about sagging tits?

    Ironic after all those Tory revival false dawns ramped by MoonRabbit that now there is a genuine narrowing of the polls he/she is nowhere to be seen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,780

    Leon said:

    Absolutely savage takedown of the SNP - by a pro-indy writer

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23444812.re-run-leadership-contest-can-save-snp/?ref=twtrec

    Diagnosis: indy isn't happening for a generation. The SNP have fucked it up. The long hard road to recovery begins with a re-run of the leadership campaign, and the removal of Yousless, who is helplessly tainted and was, quite possibly, installed via a fraudulent process

    Hard to argue with much of that

    Rather liked this line: "He (Yousaf) dutifully showed his gratitude by unveiling a ministry that, in political terms, resembles a painting by Hieronymus Bosch."

    However his solution, a re-run with Forbes and Regan duly elected, would only result in the ship splitting up altogether as the "progressives" headed for the liferafts. You have to remember that a huge segment of the SNP is extremely left-wing and would be aghast at a Forbes supremacy.
    A fair point. In which case the Nats are entirely fucked: for years. I shall have a stiff gin to numb my sadness
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175

    A by election in Glasgow Southside is rumoured? I'm about to jet off on holiday tomorrow, this is very inconvenient timing, I need to be on the sofa with snacks watching the SNP implode.

    By elections are an inevitable result of the SNP selling out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,716
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,189

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Wouldn't it be cool if it was Sir Ian McKellen?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,595
    ydoethur said:

    .

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:

    If there polls were neck and neck at say 38pc.. what would the likely result be?

    Tories about 40 short of a majority.
    Labour would take office with Lib-Dem/SNP/Green abstaining on their first Queens Speech/Budget and we'd be back to the polls within the year?
    That should be Kings Speech of course.

    Still hard to get your head around us having a King rather than a Queen... And does anyone else still refer to Charles as Prince Charles rather than King Charles? I think Charles desinty of forever to be the King that everyone remembers as a Prince lol...
    Whenever I read about the Prince of Wales I always think ah Prince Charles, not Prince WIlliam.
    Whenever I hear King Charles, I STILL go "spaniel".
    Coincidentally many people on this board go 'Cocker.'

    Well, 'Cock' anyway.
    Charles may still springer surprise on us yet.
  • ydoethur said:

    A by election in Glasgow Southside is rumoured? I'm about to jet off on holiday tomorrow, this is very inconvenient timing, I need to be on the sofa with snacks watching the SNP implode.

    By elections are an inevitable result of the SNP selling out.
    Southside is very tricky though. SLab could pick that up and then a very many MSPs/MPs will be looking nervously at much smaller majorities.

    Yousaf will be toast. I mean he's toast, now...
  • I was scrolling through a bit of twitter earlier and saw another thing about Posey Parker

    That reminded me to watch Dazed and Confused again, which I'm doing now

    I do love it, and I forgot how much great music it introduced me to

    Like WAR's Why Can't We Be Friends?

    I sometimes sing this in my head when I read the occasional fighting on PB

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0Qda32IKM
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175
    GIN1138 said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Wouldn't it be cool if it was Sir Ian McKellen?
    Nah, it would be Dûm.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,189

    GIN1138 said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Wouldn't it be cool if it was Sir Ian McKellen?
    One of the coolest days at a former school was when Sir Ian came to talk about LGBT stuff.

    He did finish his speech by telling the assembled that they needed to revise for their exams, otherwise You Shall Not Pass.

    I'm sure he says it everywhere, but cool nonetheless.
    A memory those kids will remember for their rest of their lives I'm sure
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175

    GIN1138 said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Wouldn't it be cool if it was Sir Ian McKellen?
    One of the coolest days at a former school was when Sir Ian came to talk about LGBT stuff.

    He did finish his speech by telling the assembled that they needed to revise for their exams, otherwise You Shall Not Pass.

    I'm sure he says it everywhere, but cool nonetheless.
    I'm sure he made a hobbit of it.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,175
    ydoethur said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
    No, Balrogs have wings.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
    No, Balrogs have wings.
    Jackson thought they did but Jackson as usual thought wrong.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,819

    Leon said:

    Absolutely savage takedown of the SNP - by a pro-indy writer

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23444812.re-run-leadership-contest-can-save-snp/?ref=twtrec

    Diagnosis: indy isn't happening for a generation. The SNP have fucked it up. The long hard road to recovery begins with a re-run of the leadership campaign, and the removal of Yousless, who is helplessly tainted and was, quite possibly, installed via a fraudulent process

    Hard to argue with much of that

    Rather liked this line: "He (Yousaf) dutifully showed his gratitude by unveiling a ministry that, in political terms, resembles a painting by Hieronymus Bosch."

    However his solution, a re-run with Forbes and Regan duly elected, would only result in the ship splitting up altogether as the "progressives" headed for the liferafts. You have to remember that a huge segment of the SNP is extremely left-wing and would be aghast at a Forbes supremacy.
    To get what they ultimately want a split may actually be necessary. Are the SNP ever going to build a solid and sustained majority amongst public opinion for secession if they spend all their time trying to appeal to left-leaning voters and denouncing the political right as evil?

    The Wicked Tories rhetoric clearly plays very well in Greater Glasgow, but quite a lot of rural Scots still seem to like them. The current Scottish Government presides over a deeply divided country, and we can well guess at how resentful large parts of it could get if they somehow manage finally to secure that second referendum, win it narrowly and secession turns out to be really difficult. Brexit on a 52:48 vote has not been a particularly happy experience, after all, and splitting up the UK is going to be much more complex than that.

    There were reports after the 2014 failure that SNP figures thought they needed to build that solid and and sustained majority for independence before having a second vote - 60% was a figure that did the rounds a lot. That seems reasonable: get a big enough lead for long enough and you can start to make the outcome seem like a fait accompli. What they seem to have failed to do since, however, is make any progress in working out how to get there. There seems to be no strategy at all - all they've come up with in the last nine years was a bit of caterwauling about Scotland being dragged out of the EU against its will, but it seems that Scotland didn't care enough about the EU to change its mind about independence after all. So, what now?

    Perhaps its time for the SNP to consider whether the main obstacle to independence might just be the SNP?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,982

    Scottish subsample klaxon

    Redfield & Wilton

    Lab 31%

    SNP 31%

    Labour actually led before roundings.

    Has anyone checked yet if the Humza honeymoon bounce was off the roof?
    The SNP will get another 3 or 4 percentage points from the Greens if past precedent is anything to go by. Reclaiming half of the drift to Labour could be another4 points, and then there’s the small fraction that this poll says has gone to Reform UK (!). As usual, you are building a mountain of supposition on a molehill of poll data.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,607
    GIN1138 said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Wouldn't it be cool if it was Sir Ian McKellen?
    My heart starts missing a beat!
  • pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Absolutely savage takedown of the SNP - by a pro-indy writer

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23444812.re-run-leadership-contest-can-save-snp/?ref=twtrec

    Diagnosis: indy isn't happening for a generation. The SNP have fucked it up. The long hard road to recovery begins with a re-run of the leadership campaign, and the removal of Yousless, who is helplessly tainted and was, quite possibly, installed via a fraudulent process

    Hard to argue with much of that

    Rather liked this line: "He (Yousaf) dutifully showed his gratitude by unveiling a ministry that, in political terms, resembles a painting by Hieronymus Bosch."

    However his solution, a re-run with Forbes and Regan duly elected, would only result in the ship splitting up altogether as the "progressives" headed for the liferafts. You have to remember that a huge segment of the SNP is extremely left-wing and would be aghast at a Forbes supremacy.
    To get what they ultimately want a split may actually be necessary. Are the SNP ever going to build a solid and sustained majority amongst public opinion for secession if they spend all their time trying to appeal to left-leaning voters and denouncing the political right as evil?

    The Wicked Tories rhetoric clearly plays very well in Greater Glasgow, but quite a lot of rural Scots still seem to like them. The current Scottish Government presides over a deeply divided country, and we can well guess at how resentful large parts of it could get if they somehow manage finally to secure that second referendum, win it narrowly and secession turns out to be really difficult. Brexit on a 52:48 vote has not been a particularly happy experience, after all, and splitting up the UK is going to be much more complex than that.

    There were reports after the 2014 failure that SNP figures thought they needed to build that solid and and sustained majority for independence before having a second vote - 60% was a figure that did the rounds a lot. That seems reasonable: get a big enough lead for long enough and you can start to make the outcome seem like a fait accompli. What they seem to have failed to do since, however, is make any progress in working out how to get there. There seems to be no strategy at all - all they've come up with in the last nine years was a bit of caterwauling about Scotland being dragged out of the EU against its will, but it seems that Scotland didn't care enough about the EU to change its mind about independence after all. So, what now?

    Perhaps its time for the SNP to consider whether the main obstacle to independence might just be the SNP?
    There feels an element to them - from the outside - that likes the power and that the current status quo suits them very well: they keep onto the cushy jobs and can always blame Westminster for any problems.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,368
    Leon said:

    Absolutely savage takedown of the SNP - by a pro-indy writer

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23444812.re-run-leadership-contest-can-save-snp/?ref=twtrec

    Diagnosis: indy isn't happening for a generation. The SNP have fucked it up. The long hard road to recovery begins with a re-run of the leadership campaign, and the removal of Yousless, who is helplessly tainted and was, quite possibly, installed via a fraudulent process

    Hard to argue with much of that

    A generation being....?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Twitter is awash with rumours that Sturgeon is about to resign as an MSP

    What’s the Scottish version of the Chiltern Hundreds?
    You just resign. None of the Westminster nonsense.
    Nonsense? That nonsense gives character!

    In Westminster you can write a letter simply saying you resign and they will interpret that as seeking appointment to one of the disqualifying offices (Sinn Fein established that), so people don't even have to play ball, and so it is just a quaint legal fiction.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,735
    Kinda feel sorry for Humza. Not a happy bunny having to deal with questions like this.

    https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1645478535497121811

    Can we trust the SNP with our money...
  • Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
    Yes, I have let to hear of anyone from the ex-coal districts or other less well off areas talking about their EU-sponsored trip. A fair few middle class types here in London though...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,031
    I can't believe we're having a ding-dong about whether it's free to see the minotaur in Crete or not.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    sarissa said:

    Scottish subsample klaxon

    Redfield & Wilton

    Lab 31%

    SNP 31%

    Labour actually led before roundings.

    Has anyone checked yet if the Humza honeymoon bounce was off the roof?
    The SNP will get another 3 or 4 percentage points from the Greens if past precedent is anything to go by. Reclaiming half of the drift to Labour could be another4 points, and then there’s the small fraction that this poll says has gone to Reform UK (!). As usual, you are building a mountain of supposition on a molehill of poll data.
    As usual, haha! Lovely stuff.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,918

    .

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Foxy said:

    If there polls were neck and neck at say 38pc.. what would the likely result be?

    Tories about 40 short of a majority.
    Labour would take office with Lib-Dem/SNP/Green abstaining on their first Queens Speech/Budget and we'd be back to the polls within the year?
    That should be Kings Speech of course.

    Still hard to get your head around us having a King rather than a Queen... And does anyone else still refer to Charles as Prince Charles rather than King Charles? I think Charles desinty of forever to be the King that everyone remembers as a Prince lol...
    Whenever I read about the Prince of Wales I always think ah Prince Charles, not Prince WIlliam.
    I always think ah Llywelyn ap Gruffudd.
    I think Edward II.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175

    I can't believe we're having a ding-dong about whether it's free to see the minotaur in Crete or not.

    It's because Rhodes is blocked.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,100

    On inflation here in the US: This morning I saw an ad from Arco claiming they sell quality gasoline for less. So we are starting to see price competition here in one of the most sensitive products, politically.

    (It wouldn't surprise me if something similar happened soon, in the UK.)

    Arco gas is shite though
    Gas is gas (or petrol is petrol, if you prefer), surely?
    Different additives, I understand, that impact performance and engine damage

    Arco doesn’t have much of them - SP it’s cheep & cheerful

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,713

    Kinda feel sorry for Humza. Not a happy bunny having to deal with questions like this.

    https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1645478535497121811

    Can we trust the SNP with our money...

    Not exactly the best 'honeymoon period' a new leader could ask for.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,880

    On the subject of good value supermarket wine, Lidl have a 2019 Chianti Reserva for £6.50 a bottle that Decanter magazine scored at 92/100. It really is rather good.

    https://www.decanter.com/wine-reviews/italy/tuscany/lidl-corte-alle-mura-chianti-riserva-tuscany-italy-2019-62337

    It was on special offer at our local Lidl a few weeks ago for £4.99 a bottle. I bought one, and after I tasted it, went back for 6 more. Still have a couple of bottles left.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611

    ydoethur said:
    Blown up out of all proportion.
    The terrible situation in the Med between Greece and Malta with a stranded boat containing 400 immigrants drifting at sea with the skipper having gone awol and nobody is going to their rescue
    Surely someone could phone the Libyan Coastguard? They would love to look after 400 prime hands immigrants.
  • I was scrolling through a bit of twitter earlier and saw another thing about Posey Parker

    That reminded me to watch Dazed and Confused again, which I'm doing now

    I do love it, and I forgot how much great music it introduced me to

    Like WAR's Why Can't We Be Friends?

    I sometimes sing this in my head when I read the occasional fighting on PB

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0Qda32IKM

    I also love being reminded that WAR worked with one of my favourite ever English singers; Eric Burdon, the Geordie who sang for The Animals

    I really like this 1970 video of them doing Tobacco Road

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF87aqqmf4Q
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175
    edited April 2023
    Incidentally two days ago I posted this:
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    The only thing I really need to know about the cricket is how do I get to the Rosebowl and back from North Hants if I want to have a few bevvies?

    The only thing I need to know is what’s on the other side.
    From Southampton? Either the Isle of Wight or Hythe. Depends on which direction you're facing.
    Thanks for the tips in the header, and the honourable mention.
    You won't be surprised to hear that I'm piling in on Leicestershire and Kent. :)
    I would love to see Leicestershire have a fabulous season and go up. Especially at the expense of Yorkshire.

    But I have more chance of a date with Margot Robbie.
    So why has Margot not rung me up yet :angry:
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,100

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    Paid for by someone else =/= free
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    So that golliwogs chap, he’s a right charmer.


    So, he's complaining about people taking offence at things... while simultaneously taking offence at gays and the like.

    The irony is strong with this one.
    True, but he wasn't demanding police go and arrest gays was he?
    I hardly think that is the point at issue, unless of course the dolls in the pub were [edit] dressed in pink or something.
    That story is barmy on all levels. Six rozzers turn up to nick a bunch of golliwogs from a boozer owned by a couple who think they live in a 70s sitcom. The couple are clearly vile creatures, but 6 coppers? Couldn't they have just sent a pcso to find out what's going on and then clarify the situation and then take appropriate action, rather than make martyrs out of the bigoted tossers?
    Oh, quite. Unless they did it in opening hours and were worried about the customer reaction? But then why do it then?
    Ah, this just up. Apparently Ms Braverman didn't tick off the Essex plod after all. [Edit: at least, not to Plod's face.]

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/10/essex-police-deny-braverman-rebuked-them-over-pub-seizure-of-golliwog-dolls


    'Essex police have denied being rebuked by Suella Braverman for seizing a collection of golliwog dolls that were on display in a pub.

    Officers from the force took several dolls from the White Hart Inn in Grays, Essex, last week as part of an investigation into an alleged hate crime reported in February.

    A source close to Braverman suggested the home secretary had reprimanded the force over the raid, according to MailOnline. [...]

    But sources at the force said no contact had been made by Braverman over the investigation.'
    We can rest easy in our beds, now that the gollys of Essex are in custody.
    Arresting black dolls?

    A job for Constable Savage.
    Chief Superintendent Sir Reginald Savage OBE, you mean?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,960
    Some of you may enjoy this cartoon: https://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2023/04/09

    And -- fair warning -- it may annoy others.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,982

    I can't believe we're having a ding-dong about whether it's free to see the minotaur in Crete or not.

    That’s worth a thread by itself.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,713

    I was scrolling through a bit of twitter earlier and saw another thing about Posey Parker

    That reminded me to watch Dazed and Confused again, which I'm doing now

    I do love it, and I forgot how much great music it introduced me to

    Like WAR's Why Can't We Be Friends?

    I sometimes sing this in my head when I read the occasional fighting on PB

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0Qda32IKM

    Now I want to rewatch 'Slacker'. Don't think I've watched it since I saw it in the cinema when it came out.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277
    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
    In what way are apprentices from Stoke paying for people to visit Greece?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,100
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
    No, Balrogs have wings.
    Jackson thought they did but Jackson as usual thought wrong.
    A balrog is basically a mirror image of Gandalf

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
    Yes, I have let to hear of anyone from the ex-coal districts or other less well off areas talking about their EU-sponsored trip. A fair few middle class types here in London though...
    Quite right. Keep the lower order in their place. Wouldn’t want to give them the wrong ideas.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,492

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
    Yes, I have let to hear of anyone from the ex-coal districts or other less well off areas talking about their EU-sponsored trip. A fair few middle class types here in London though...
    Yep. They would be in the nightclubs of Malia.

    Mind you, when I was 19, I did both. Culture and some Dutch blondes. A great holiday.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,119

    I can't believe we're having a ding-dong about whether it's free to see the minotaur in Crete or not.

    Yes, it's amazeing... I blame the labyrinthine bureaucracy, personally.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611
    ydoethur said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
    “… to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf…”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,492
    edited April 2023

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
    Yes, I have let to hear of anyone from the ex-coal districts or other less well off areas talking about their EU-sponsored trip. A fair few middle class types here in London though...
    Quite right. Keep the lower order in their place. Wouldn’t want to give them the wrong ideas.
    After all, we wouldn't want them getting ideas above their station.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,713

    GIN1138 said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Wouldn't it be cool if it was Sir Ian McKellen?
    One of the coolest days at a former school was when Sir Ian came to talk about LGBT stuff.

    He did finish his speech by telling the assembled that they needed to revise for their exams, otherwise You Shall Not Pass.

    I'm sure he says it everywhere, but cool nonetheless.
    I remember Jackie Stewart coming to my school to talk about being dyslexic. Queue lots of bikeshed jokes about 'speshal needs' etc. Which he happened to overhear and gave everyone a full-on blast of west-Scotland scalding.

    Bless the man.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,492
    edited April 2023
    pm215 said:

    I can't believe we're having a ding-dong about whether it's free to see the minotaur in Crete or not.

    Yes, it's amazeing... I blame the labyrinthine bureaucracy, personally.

    That's a load of bull.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,880

    Leon said:

    Absolutely savage takedown of the SNP - by a pro-indy writer

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23444812.re-run-leadership-contest-can-save-snp/?ref=twtrec

    Diagnosis: indy isn't happening for a generation. The SNP have fucked it up. The long hard road to recovery begins with a re-run of the leadership campaign, and the removal of Yousless, who is helplessly tainted and was, quite possibly, installed via a fraudulent process

    Hard to argue with much of that

    Rather liked this line: "He (Yousaf) dutifully showed his gratitude by unveiling a ministry that, in political terms, resembles a painting by Hieronymus Bosch."

    However his solution, a re-run with Forbes and Regan duly elected, would only result in the ship splitting up altogether as the "progressives" headed for the liferafts. You have to remember that a huge segment of the SNP is extremely left-wing and would be aghast at a Forbes supremacy.
    If the SNP progressives head for the life rafts, can I volunteer to tow them to Angola? Happy to take some Albanians in exchange.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277
    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175

    ydoethur said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
    “… to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf…”
    if you had quoted the previous paragraph, where it said the shadows 'wrapped around it like two vast wings..'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175
    pm215 said:

    I can't believe we're having a ding-dong about whether it's free to see the minotaur in Crete or not.

    Yes, it's amazeing... I blame the labyrinthine bureaucracy, personally.

    They've definitely lost the thread.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,377

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Why should British people enjoy free access but not people from, say, Turkey or Egypt, who might have a greater claim to it being part of their heritage?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277

    I was scrolling through a bit of twitter earlier and saw another thing about Posey Parker

    That reminded me to watch Dazed and Confused again, which I'm doing now

    I do love it, and I forgot how much great music it introduced me to

    Like WAR's Why Can't We Be Friends?

    I sometimes sing this in my head when I read the occasional fighting on PB

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0Qda32IKM

    I also love being reminded that WAR worked with one of my favourite ever English singers; Eric Burdon, the Geordie who sang for The Animals

    I really like this 1970 video of them doing Tobacco Road

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF87aqqmf4Q
    The Burdon-War collab is truly one of the oddest turns in pop history. Spill the Wine is good though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,565
    .

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
    In what way are apprentices from Stoke paying for people to visit Greece?
    In a rhetorical manner.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,565

    ydoethur said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
    “… to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf…”
    Bet it didn’t have tyres, though.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Why should British people enjoy free access but not people from, say, Turkey or Egypt, who might have a greater claim to it being part of their heritage?
    Why do PB Tories presume to tell the Greeks who and who not should get free access to their museums?
  • Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    Some EU countries seem to have decided to make life difficult for UK tourists

    After a time adapting, the UK tourists will take the paths of least resistance

    Those countries in the EU offering less resistant paths will get more UK tourists

    The countries making things difficult may be glad to see the back of us, or they may make things less difficult for us

    It's a pain now, but that's what we voted for
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611
    ydoethur said:

    pm215 said:

    I can't believe we're having a ding-dong about whether it's free to see the minotaur in Crete or not.

    Yes, it's amazeing... I blame the labyrinthine bureaucracy, personally.

    They've definitely lost the thread.
    No clue
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
    In what way are apprentices from Stoke paying for people to visit Greece?
    In a rhetorical manner.
    You mean Mortimer is talking kaka?
    I’m shocked, shocked.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
    “… to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf…”
    if you had quoted the previous paragraph, where it said the shadows 'wrapped around it like two vast wings..'
    But then the Professor of English wrote the bit I quoted….
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,077

    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    It's tempting to do some Easyair-to-Greece vs. Train from Stoke to London price comparisons. My suspicion is that there's much less in it than there should be.

    But we know (because we've been told so by some of the winners) that 2016 was the triumph of Somewheres over Anywheres/Nowheres. Because that's more dignified than admitting that the Apprentices of Stoke might appreciate a bit of travel and culture, whereas the pensioners of Stoke didn't have that advantage in their youth and don't want to subsidise that when there is their pensions and healthcare to pay for.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,880
    edited April 2023

    ydoethur said:

    A by election in Glasgow Southside is rumoured? I'm about to jet off on holiday tomorrow, this is very inconvenient timing, I need to be on the sofa with snacks watching the SNP implode.

    By elections are an inevitable result of the SNP selling out.
    Southside is very tricky though. SLab could pick that up and then a very many MSPs/MPs will be looking nervously at much smaller majorities.

    Yousaf will be toast. I mean he's toast, now...
    A seat for Anas Sarwar to avoid him have to rely on a list seat.
    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Absolutely savage takedown of the SNP - by a pro-indy writer

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23444812.re-run-leadership-contest-can-save-snp/?ref=twtrec

    Diagnosis: indy isn't happening for a generation. The SNP have fucked it up. The long hard road to recovery begins with a re-run of the leadership campaign, and the removal of Yousless, who is helplessly tainted and was, quite possibly, installed via a fraudulent process

    Hard to argue with much of that

    Rather liked this line: "He (Yousaf) dutifully showed his gratitude by unveiling a ministry that, in political terms, resembles a painting by Hieronymus Bosch."

    However his solution, a re-run with Forbes and Regan duly elected, would only result in the ship splitting up altogether as the "progressives" headed for the liferafts. You have to remember that a huge segment of the SNP is extremely left-wing and would be aghast at a Forbes supremacy.
    To get what they ultimately want a split may actually be necessary. Are the SNP ever going to build a solid and sustained majority amongst public opinion for secession if they spend all their time trying to appeal to left-leaning voters and denouncing the political right as evil?

    The Wicked Tories rhetoric clearly plays very well in Greater Glasgow, but quite a lot of rural Scots still seem to like them. The current Scottish Government presides over a deeply divided country, and we can well guess at how resentful large parts of it could get if they somehow manage finally to secure that second referendum, win it narrowly and secession turns out to be really difficult. Brexit on a 52:48 vote has not been a particularly happy experience, after all, and splitting up the UK is going to be much more complex than that.

    There were reports after the 2014 failure that SNP figures thought they needed to build that solid and and sustained majority for independence before having a second vote - 60% was a figure that did the rounds a lot. That seems reasonable: get a big enough lead for long enough and you can start to make the outcome seem like a fait accompli. What they seem to have failed to do since, however, is make any progress in working out how to get there. There seems to be no strategy at all - all they've come up with in the last nine years was a bit of caterwauling about Scotland being dragged out of the EU against its will, but it seems that Scotland didn't care enough about the EU to change its mind about independence after all. So, what now?

    Perhaps its time for the SNP to consider whether the main obstacle to independence might just be the SNP?
    There should be three pro independence parties, Alba, Greens and the rump in the middle. It would work for Holyrood, but not for Westminster, though. After all, there are three anti independence parties, Labour, Conservative and the rump in the middle.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Can't have been a Balrog. Cars have wings and balrogs don't.
    “… to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf…”
    Bet it didn’t have tyres, though.
    Tolkien didn’t mention tyres. Didn’t mean it didn’t have any.

    Balrogs are actually lorries?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,611

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Mortimer said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Like I said, I don't mind paying, the money is nothing to me, but Brexit is all about cutting off young British people from Europe and this is just another example of it.
    How about the young people who aren't well enough enough to get there in the first place? One of the many problems with the EU is that the 'benefits' provided largely accrued to the middle classes. Who, frankly, could afford to pay their own way.

    Should the apprentice from Stoke be paying to contribute to subsidies for your children to see Knossos? Not in my view...
    In what way are apprentices from Stoke paying for people to visit Greece?
    In a rhetorical manner.
    You mean Mortimer is talking kaka?
    I’m shocked, shocked.
    Now for the vital question - do Balrogs get free entry to Knossos?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,031
    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,880
    ohnotnow said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Got stuck behind a car with the number plate: G4ND4LF earlier.

    Don't know who it was, but he wouldn't let me pass.

    Wouldn't it be cool if it was Sir Ian McKellen?
    One of the coolest days at a former school was when Sir Ian came to talk about LGBT stuff.

    He did finish his speech by telling the assembled that they needed to revise for their exams, otherwise You Shall Not Pass.

    I'm sure he says it everywhere, but cool nonetheless.
    I remember Jackie Stewart coming to my school to talk about being dyslexic. Queue lots of bikeshed jokes about 'speshal needs' etc. Which he happened to overhear and gave everyone a full-on blast of west-Scotland scalding.

    Bless the man.
    The best ever racing driver?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,819

    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    Some EU countries seem to have decided to make life difficult for UK tourists

    After a time adapting, the UK tourists will take the paths of least resistance

    Those countries in the EU offering less resistant paths will get more UK tourists

    The countries making things difficult may be glad to see the back of us, or they may make things less difficult for us

    It's a pain now, but that's what we voted for
    FWIW, and bearing in mind the commentary about Crete below, apparently the Greek tourism industry is rubbing its hands in glee at the number of British visitors descending upon it this year. I'm quite sure I read somewhere that we've replaced the Germans as their biggest customers.

    Of course, most of those visitors won't be going primarily for the archaeological sites, and many of those who are will be affluent enough not to care too much about entry fees.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277

    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    It's tempting to do some Easyair-to-Greece vs. Train from Stoke to London price comparisons. My suspicion is that there's much less in it than there should be.

    But we know (because we've been told so by some of the winners) that 2016 was the triumph of Somewheres over Anywheres/Nowheres. Because that's more dignified than admitting that the Apprentices of Stoke might appreciate a bit of travel and culture, whereas the pensioners of Stoke didn't have that advantage in their youth and don't want to subsidise that when there is their pensions and healthcare to pay for.
    At least the pensioners of Stoke have (or might believe they have) a financial reason to shut down opportunities for the youth.

    PB Tories appear to simply be driven by sheer vindictiveness, dressed of course in concern for “apprentices”.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277
    edited April 2023
    pigeon said:

    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    Some EU countries seem to have decided to make life difficult for UK tourists

    After a time adapting, the UK tourists will take the paths of least resistance

    Those countries in the EU offering less resistant paths will get more UK tourists

    The countries making things difficult may be glad to see the back of us, or they may make things less difficult for us

    It's a pain now, but that's what we voted for
    FWIW, and bearing in mind the commentary about Crete below, apparently the Greek tourism industry is rubbing its hands in glee at the number of British visitors descending upon it this year. I'm quite sure I read somewhere that we've replaced the Germans as their biggest customers.

    Of course, most of those visitors won't be going primarily for the archaeological sites, and many of those who are will be affluent enough not to care too much about entry fees.
    Probably bollocks.
    We keep being told that the Brits are staying in Weston-super-Mare and that it’s somehow more virtuous indeed to do so.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,830
    edited April 2023

    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.

    I expect the Greeks might be a bit pissed off if we offered them free tickets to see the Elgin Marbles in return for free tickets to see where the Parthenon Marbles used to be
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,342
    edited April 2023
    All these terrible Greek puns make me want to leave this thread like a bat out of Hellas.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,664

    Scottish subsample klaxon

    Redfield & Wilton

    Lab 31%

    SNP 31%

    Labour actually led before roundings.

    Has anyone checked yet if the Humza honeymoon bounce was off the roof?
    Crossover is coming... the schadenfreude will be orgasmic
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,819

    pigeon said:

    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    Some EU countries seem to have decided to make life difficult for UK tourists

    After a time adapting, the UK tourists will take the paths of least resistance

    Those countries in the EU offering less resistant paths will get more UK tourists

    The countries making things difficult may be glad to see the back of us, or they may make things less difficult for us

    It's a pain now, but that's what we voted for
    FWIW, and bearing in mind the commentary about Crete below, apparently the Greek tourism industry is rubbing its hands in glee at the number of British visitors descending upon it this year. I'm quite sure I read somewhere that we've replaced the Germans as their biggest customers.

    Of course, most of those visitors won't be going primarily for the archaeological sites, and many of those who are will be affluent enough not to care too much about entry fees.
    Probably bollocks.
    We keep being told that the Brits are staying in Weston-super-Mare and that it’s somehow more virtuous indeed to do so.
    Since when? That particular Brexit-related line of humour seems to have entirely passed me by. Anyway, I found it:

    UK travellers are leading an extraordinary rebound in tourism to Greece with arrivals up by 181% last year, according to the country’s central bank.

    Almost 4.5 million Britons were registered at Greek entry points, a record number and nearly 3 million more than in 2021.

    For the first time, UK tourists edged out Germans – who have topped the visitor league tables in Greece for decades – in what some are calling a defiant display of post-pandemic “revenge” tourism.

    “In terms of Greece, the Brits are leading the way,” the nation’s tourism minister, Vassilis Kikilias, told the Guardian. “And they’re big spenders.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/26/record-number-of-britons-head-to-greece-as-nation-enjoys-tourism-boom
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,819

    All these terrible Greek puns make me want to leave this thread like a bat out of Hellas.

    Sparta me actually quite enjoys them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,640

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is such an exquisite and awesome pun I thought I would repost it here since we’re still talking about Brexit benefits/shortcomings.

    Had to pay EUR48 for my three kids to visit Knossos and the Archaeological Museum in Heraklion. EU citizens under 26 go free. Another fantastic Brexit dividend.

    They tell you this, but it isn’t true. The Cretan minor tour is a myth.

    Yes it was very good. It's still a fucking miserable situation to find ourselves in, though. It's made me properly depressed.
    So you begrudge investing in your children’s’ education? Or you resent supporting archaeological investigations and cultural protection in other countries?
    I think it's sad that British young people are excluded from opportunities to learn about our European cultural heritage. More broadly, I think it is sad that while young people across Europe are sharing ideas, falling in love and living without borders, our young people are shut out from the opportunities that others take for granted - and we used to too.
    I don't mind paying the money - EUR48 is less than 20 minutes work for me - but there are plenty of young people who will simply not have these opportunities now. That is desperately sad.
    There's nothing at all unreasonable about the Greeks charging for admission to one of the world's greatest archaeological sites, any more than the Italians charging admission for entry to Pompeii. These sites do not maintain themselves.
    Of course not. Presumably the subsidy is paid for by the EU. But young Irish, French, Greek, Italian, German people get to appreciate their European cultural heritage for free. Young British people now don't.
    Why should British people enjoy free access but not people from, say, Turkey or Egypt, who might have a greater claim to it being part of their heritage?
    Why do PB Tories presume to tell the Greeks who and who not should get free access to their museums?
    Imperial overstretch. From the C19 when it was all about Civis Britannicus sum.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,277
    pigeon said:

    pigeon said:

    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    Some EU countries seem to have decided to make life difficult for UK tourists

    After a time adapting, the UK tourists will take the paths of least resistance

    Those countries in the EU offering less resistant paths will get more UK tourists

    The countries making things difficult may be glad to see the back of us, or they may make things less difficult for us

    It's a pain now, but that's what we voted for
    FWIW, and bearing in mind the commentary about Crete below, apparently the Greek tourism industry is rubbing its hands in glee at the number of British visitors descending upon it this year. I'm quite sure I read somewhere that we've replaced the Germans as their biggest customers.

    Of course, most of those visitors won't be going primarily for the archaeological sites, and many of those who are will be affluent enough not to care too much about entry fees.
    Probably bollocks.
    We keep being told that the Brits are staying in Weston-super-Mare and that it’s somehow more virtuous indeed to do so.
    Since when? That particular Brexit-related line of humour seems to have entirely passed me by. Anyway, I found it:

    UK travellers are leading an extraordinary rebound in tourism to Greece with arrivals up by 181% last year, according to the country’s central bank.

    Almost 4.5 million Britons were registered at Greek entry points, a record number and nearly 3 million more than in 2021.

    For the first time, UK tourists edged out Germans – who have topped the visitor league tables in Greece for decades – in what some are calling a defiant display of post-pandemic “revenge” tourism.

    “In terms of Greece, the Brits are leading the way,” the nation’s tourism minister, Vassilis Kikilias, told the Guardian. “And they’re big spenders.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/26/record-number-of-britons-head-to-greece-as-nation-enjoys-tourism-boom
    Sounds like a recycled press release to me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,031

    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.

    I expect the Greeks might be a bit pissed off if we offered them free tickets to see the Elgin Marbles in return for free tickets to see where the Parthenon Marbles used to be
    The strange thing is that most Greeks don't give a flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles.

    It's modern Greece they're interested in, and their claims to territory in the Dodecanese and the Balkans, not ancient Greece - which is more a Western obsession.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,607

    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.

    I expect the Greeks might be a bit pissed off if we offered them free tickets to see the Elgin Marbles in return for free tickets to see where the Parthenon Marbles used to be
    The strange thing is that most Greeks don't give a flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles.

    It's modern Greece they're interested in, and their claims to territory in the Dodecanese and the Balkans, not ancient Greece - which is more a Western obsession.
    The Elgin Marbles belong in Greece, just as the Crown Jewels belong in London.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,640

    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.

    I expect the Greeks might be a bit pissed off if we offered them free tickets to see the Elgin Marbles in return for free tickets to see where the Parthenon Marbles used to be
    The strange thing is that most Greeks don't give a flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles.

    It's modern Greece they're interested in, and their claims to territory in the Dodecanese and the Balkans, not ancient Greece - which is more a Western obsession.
    The Elgin Marbles belong in Greece, just as the Crown Jewels belong in London.
    Also rather odd of CR to put his words in the mouth of the Greeks. Who give so much of a "flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles" they have built a nice new state of the art airconditioned museum with carefully calculated blank spaces for every single one of them, within sight of their original location on the Akropolis.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,077

    pigeon said:

    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    Some EU countries seem to have decided to make life difficult for UK tourists

    After a time adapting, the UK tourists will take the paths of least resistance

    Those countries in the EU offering less resistant paths will get more UK tourists

    The countries making things difficult may be glad to see the back of us, or they may make things less difficult for us

    It's a pain now, but that's what we voted for
    FWIW, and bearing in mind the commentary about Crete below, apparently the Greek tourism industry is rubbing its hands in glee at the number of British visitors descending upon it this year. I'm quite sure I read somewhere that we've replaced the Germans as their biggest customers.

    Of course, most of those visitors won't be going primarily for the archaeological sites, and many of those who are will be affluent enough not to care too much about entry fees.
    Probably bollocks.
    We keep being told that the Brits are staying in Weston-super-Mare and that it’s somehow more virtuous indeed to do so.
    Though that's mostly John Redwood, who I hope has just moved into satirical self-parody, becuase the alternative is that his own logic has driven him stark, raving mad.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,175

    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.

    I expect the Greeks might be a bit pissed off if we offered them free tickets to see the Elgin Marbles in return for free tickets to see where the Parthenon Marbles used to be
    The strange thing is that most Greeks don't give a flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles.

    It's modern Greece they're interested in, and their claims to territory in the Dodecanese and the Balkans, not ancient Greece - which is more a Western obsession.
    The Elgin Marbles belong in Greece, just as the Crown Jewels belong in London.
    I thought the Indian government wanted to take part of them to India?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,031
    Carnyx said:

    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.

    I expect the Greeks might be a bit pissed off if we offered them free tickets to see the Elgin Marbles in return for free tickets to see where the Parthenon Marbles used to be
    The strange thing is that most Greeks don't give a flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles.

    It's modern Greece they're interested in, and their claims to territory in the Dodecanese and the Balkans, not ancient Greece - which is more a Western obsession.
    The Elgin Marbles belong in Greece, just as the Crown Jewels belong in London.
    Also rather odd of CR to put his words in the mouth of the Greeks. Who give so much of a "flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles" they have built a nice new state of the art airconditioned museum with carefully calculated blank spaces for every single one of them, within sight of their original location on the Akropolis.
    Because I know Greeks and have a Balkan wife. I've also read a lot of Balkan history. Of course, if you offer them to them they'll say yes, but it's about 487th on the list of things they care about.

    This is a British obsession because it allows us to compete in a self-satisfied wank-off over our views on the Empire together.
  • I was scrolling through a bit of twitter earlier and saw another thing about Posey Parker

    That reminded me to watch Dazed and Confused again, which I'm doing now

    I do love it, and I forgot how much great music it introduced me to

    Like WAR's Why Can't We Be Friends?

    I sometimes sing this in my head when I read the occasional fighting on PB

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sH0Qda32IKM

    Ooohhh..

    And Dr John's Right Place Wrong Time, what a tune!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47JFAhZWlxY
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,565
    Dianne Feinstein will be ninety this year.
    It’s just as well that there are Presidential term limits…

    Asked if Sen. Feinstein’s absence has longer ramifications on the Democrats’ ability to confirm judges, Dick Durbin told me: “yes, of course it does.”
    No update yet on when Feinstein will return.

    https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1645428932835942402

    Seeing that @SenFeinstein didn't vote yesterday (Mar 30th) for the bill that ends Covid emergency, I called her office to get answers.

    I called both her LA and DC numbers. No one answered. No voicemail set up to take messages. The phone system simply hangs up. This is for BOTH numbers.

    https://twitter.com/MadhouseMuse/status/1641895681819545600
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    pigeon said:

    FF43 said:

    People will have to forget just how bad they thought the Conservatives to be (and still think them to be), for the Conservatives to overturn the Labour lead.

    Is that likely?

    Lots of voters have done very well indeed out of the last thirteen years.

    Of the remainder, it only takes a sufficient number to dislike or distrust the Tories a smidgen less than Labour to make up the numbers.

    Once again I emphasise that, given the Conservatives have been in power for a long time, how many people have been economically immiserated in recent years, and that a decent chunk of the population has repented of Brexit, I'm not expecting them actually to win - but I don't think the scenario is wholly implausible either.
    Most people's haven't done particularly well in past 13 years relative either to previous periods or countries we might compare ourselves with. There are specific things the Conservative government has done to make them relatively poorer: austerity, Brexit and poor handling of COVID economics.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,819
    Carnyx said:

    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.

    I expect the Greeks might be a bit pissed off if we offered them free tickets to see the Elgin Marbles in return for free tickets to see where the Parthenon Marbles used to be
    The strange thing is that most Greeks don't give a flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles.

    It's modern Greece they're interested in, and their claims to territory in the Dodecanese and the Balkans, not ancient Greece - which is more a Western obsession.
    The Elgin Marbles belong in Greece, just as the Crown Jewels belong in London.
    Also rather odd of CR to put his words in the mouth of the Greeks. Who give so much of a "flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles" they have built a nice new state of the art airconditioned museum with carefully calculated blank spaces for every single one of them, within sight of their original location on the Akropolis.
    The main obstacle with returning the sculptures is probably the fear that it would trigger a flood of similar claims, and we'd end up with a situation in which all artefacts ended up on display in whatever state encompasses the territory of the ancient culture in which they were made or recovered (and, by extension, no museum in the world could hold major collections of artefacts from anywhere else.) If an agreement could be reached internationally that would define what objects were so important that they needed to go back, allowing the bulk of them to stay put in current collections, then it would be much easier to let go of a few marquee exhibits like this.

    If that hurdle could be jumped and money were no object, then I'd advocate sending the Parthenon friezes back, and commissioning a team of British and Greek sculptors to carve a set of replicas, to be displayed in the vacated gallery back in the British Museum, in mint condition and decorated all over with bright paint as the ancient Athenians intended. They'd be quite something.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,153
    pm215 said:

    I can't believe we're having a ding-dong about whether it's free to see the minotaur in Crete or not.

    Yes, it's amazeing... I blame the labyrinthine bureaucracy, personally.

    That's just bullshit!
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    It's so nice to have a bit of consistent sunshine, albeit with sprinklings of rain too. It feels like finally, Spring is here.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,865

    pigeon said:

    Posting on the right thread…

    Trying to understand the PB Tory logic here.
    Is it that overseas trips are some kind of decadence that only latte-sipping Islington lawyers would enjoy?

    Or that Greek museums, rightly, can no longer count on subsidies from apprentices in the Midlands?

    Both appear to be Alice-in-Wonderland delusions.

    Some EU countries seem to have decided to make life difficult for UK tourists

    After a time adapting, the UK tourists will take the paths of least resistance

    Those countries in the EU offering less resistant paths will get more UK tourists

    The countries making things difficult may be glad to see the back of us, or they may make things less difficult for us

    It's a pain now, but that's what we voted for
    FWIW, and bearing in mind the commentary about Crete below, apparently the Greek tourism industry is rubbing its hands in glee at the number of British visitors descending upon it this year. I'm quite sure I read somewhere that we've replaced the Germans as their biggest customers.

    Of course, most of those visitors won't be going primarily for the archaeological sites, and many of those who are will be affluent enough not to care too much about entry fees.
    Probably bollocks.
    We keep being told that the Brits are staying in Weston-super-Mare and that it’s somehow more virtuous indeed to do so.
    Though that's mostly John Redwood, who I hope has just moved into satirical self-parody, becuase the alternative is that his own logic has driven him stark, raving mad.
    A bit late for that....
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,819
    FF43 said:

    pigeon said:

    FF43 said:

    People will have to forget just how bad they thought the Conservatives to be (and still think them to be), for the Conservatives to overturn the Labour lead.

    Is that likely?

    Lots of voters have done very well indeed out of the last thirteen years.

    Of the remainder, it only takes a sufficient number to dislike or distrust the Tories a smidgen less than Labour to make up the numbers.

    Once again I emphasise that, given the Conservatives have been in power for a long time, how many people have been economically immiserated in recent years, and that a decent chunk of the population has repented of Brexit, I'm not expecting them actually to win - but I don't think the scenario is wholly implausible either.
    Most people's haven't done particularly well in past 13 years relative either to previous periods or countries we might compare ourselves with. There are specific things the Conservative government has done to make them relatively poorer: austerity, Brexit and poor handling of COVID economics.
    Absolutely true, but the Conservatives have a large client vote of better-off older people and the heirs to their estates, who have either been substantially enriched already, or are looking forward to a huge, life-changing, tax-free inheritance windfall at some point in the not-too-distant future. The cumulative effects of spiralling house prices and retirees benefiting from older-style workplace pensions and the triple lock at the same time have created a lot of winners - and in demographics that are more likely to turn out to vote in the first place.

    That's my point: the Tories only need to top up the client vote with a minority of the losers, if they can be persuaded that Labour would make no difference or cause things to get worse, and they're right back in the game.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,687

    Carnyx said:

    Beware of Greeks bearing free museum tickets.

    I expect the Greeks might be a bit pissed off if we offered them free tickets to see the Elgin Marbles in return for free tickets to see where the Parthenon Marbles used to be
    The strange thing is that most Greeks don't give a flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles.

    It's modern Greece they're interested in, and their claims to territory in the Dodecanese and the Balkans, not ancient Greece - which is more a Western obsession.
    The Elgin Marbles belong in Greece, just as the Crown Jewels belong in London.
    Also rather odd of CR to put his words in the mouth of the Greeks. Who give so much of a "flying fuck about the Elgin Marbles" they have built a nice new state of the art airconditioned museum with carefully calculated blank spaces for every single one of them, within sight of their original location on the Akropolis.
    Because I know Greeks and have a Balkan wife. I've also read a lot of Balkan history. Of course, if you offer them to them they'll say yes, but it's about 487th on the list of things they care about.

    This is a British obsession because it allows us to compete in a self-satisfied wank-off over our views on the Empire together.
    Outside the Spectator I have never heard any British person express any opinion about the Elgin Marbles. I suspect it is about 487,000th on the list of things we care about.
  • Telegraph reporting Sunak is considering a Oct/Nov 24 election which could even coincide with the US election in November 24

    Could you imagine the media trying to cope with that scenario
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,819
    Dialup said:

    It's so nice to have a bit of consistent sunshine, albeit with sprinklings of rain too. It feels like finally, Spring is here.

    Yes, today was a bit on the dull, wet side but the rest of the long weekend has been great around these parts. And it seems likely that we've seen the back of Winter, thank God. It felt like it was the coldest for years, and that plays havoc with my skin.
  • Telegraph reporting Sunak is considering a Oct/Nov 24 election which could even coincide with the US election in November 24

    Could you imagine the media trying to cope with that scenario

    Ahem.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/01/01/can-you-cope-with-two-massive-elections-at-the-same-time/
  • Telegraph reporting Sunak is considering a Oct/Nov 24 election which could even coincide with the US election in November 24

    Could you imagine the media trying to cope with that scenario

    Ahem.

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/01/01/can-you-cope-with-two-massive-elections-at-the-same-time/
    Prescient and thanks for reminding us
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,077

    Telegraph reporting Sunak is considering a Oct/Nov 24 election which could even coincide with the US election in November 24

    Could you imagine the media trying to cope with that scenario

    Stuff the media, what about us?

    The important thing though... Sunak won't go that late if he is confident of winning earlier. For all the excitement, Conservative ratings are still quite a way below where they were in April 2022, when everyone was hopping mad with BoJo.
This discussion has been closed.