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Compulsory voting ID – A CON gift to LAB & the LDs? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2023 in General
imageCompulsory voting ID – A CON gift to LAB & the LDs? – politicalbetting.com

The local elections on May 4th will be the first to be held where every voter will be asked to provide some form of photo ID when they seek to cast their vote at the polling station. Postal voting is not affected.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    Aren't out of date photo IDs valid? Presumably precisely to avoid the disenfranchisement of the 70yo+ Tory client vote?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Second! Really dislike this being made into a political issue. The proposal came from the Electoral Commission, and all parties should be working hard to make people aware of the change.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199
    Sandpit said:

    Second! Really dislike this being made into a political issue. The proposal came from the Electoral Commission, and all parties should be working hard to make people aware of the change.

    Yes, it should be scrapped or delayed until there is more consensus.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    Sandpit said:

    Second! Really dislike this being made into a political issue. The proposal came from the Electoral Commission, and all parties should be working hard to make people aware of the change.

    If the Tories don't want it to be a party political issue then they shouldn't have clearly skewed it towards disenfranchising poorer people who tend not to vote Tory, or eg giving older people more forms of ID they can use. If people want to do this in a fair way (which would still be stupid because it is a virtually nonexistent problem and there is much more fraud around postal voting if fixing fraud were the objective) then have a compulsory universal ID card paid for by the government.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123
    Sandpit said:

    Second! Really dislike this being made into a political issue. The proposal came from the Electoral Commission, and all parties should be working hard to make people aware of the change.

    'Proposal' is not the same as 'details and funding of implementation', though ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    Second! Really dislike this being made into a political issue. The proposal came from the Electoral Commission, and all parties should be working hard to make people aware of the change.

    It didnt.
    Oh okay. Apologies if I got that wrong, it was my understanding from previous discussion here on the subject.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited March 2023
    Deleted.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,744
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Second! Really dislike this being made into a political issue. The proposal came from the Electoral Commission, and all parties should be working hard to make people aware of the change.

    It didnt.
    Oh okay. Apologies if I got that wrong, it was my understanding from previous discussion here on the subject.
    You’re basing your understanding on discussions on here?!
  • mickydroymickydroy Posts: 231
    Surely this favours the elderly (Tory voters) make no mistake,they know where there bus pass is!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,744
    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.




  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Imagine how racist it would be seen as being, to only have photo ID for councils where there have been cases of voter fraud?
    And Tower Hamlets was IIRC problems other than personation, so HYUFD is being doubly unreasonable that way. If he's so worried about the Tower Hamet problems then we should be looking at stuff other than personation as wel, notably postal voting. Which is at the heart of this Tory campaign: look only at what suits them.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32428648
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123
    edited March 2023

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    I thought most of the oldies were signed up to postal votes, and so entirely unaffected by the change?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited March 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Imagine how racist it would be seen as being, to only have photo ID for councils where there have been cases of voter fraud?
    And Tower Hamlets was IIRC problems other than personation, so HYUFD is being doubly unreasonable that way. If he's so worried about the Tower Hamet problems then we should be looking at stuff other than personation as wel, notably postal voting. Which is at the heart of this Tory campaign: look only at what suits them.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32428648
    Yeah I deleted that post, too much ambiguity and don’t want to upset OGH.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    I thought most of the oldies were signed up to postal votes, and so entirely unaffected by the change?

    Exactly, and look whom they vote for.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    Andrew Neil: Budget a “Missed Opportunity” for growth.

    It takes some cheek to pose as a tax-cutter when you’re raising CT from 19 per cent to 25 per cent. The Chancellor was trying to claim that his new allowances would compensate for the higher headline rate. But they won’t. At the moment, if you invest £100 you can claim £130 in deductions before you pay tax on profits at 19 per cent.

    “From next month (and only for three years), if you invest £100 you’ll be able to deduct £100 before paying profits’ tax of 25 per cent. If you think that’s a tax cut, I have a bridge to sell you.”


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11865147/ANDREW-NEIL-safety-Budget-come-seen-missed-opportunity-Tories.html
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,744

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
    Let's see what happens with the council elections.

    It will be somewhere between a damp squib and a fiasco.

    Anyone sent home to get photo ID should return and vote against the Tory on the ballot paper. Its the only way to make an impact.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    From the doorsteps...

    We are reminding identified Con voters of the need for ID at the polling station. Or offering them a postal vote form.

    So I'm not sure it is a major issue.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
    The tories are turning people into sovoks. They despise the state yet want everything from it. Exhibit A: the pathetic mewling of the 100k+ earners about their state subsidised childcare.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited March 2023
    More discussion about what wasn’t in the budget: IR35.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/news/freelancers-ignored-budget-designed-boost-workforce/

    Andy Chamberlain, of the Association of Independent Professionals and the Self-Employed, said the biggest obstacles facing the self-employed had been ignored.

    “The trade body estimates more than 700,000 people have been forced out of self-employment since 2020, following the pandemic a cost of living crisis and changes to complex freelancer tax rules which have taken the shine off "being your own boss" for many.”
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,083

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    Isn't there supposed to be a Liberal Democrat Councillor in that photo, pointing at a tree and looking sad? Or are they currently all allocated to standing by potholes looking sad?
  • WillGWillG Posts: 1,993
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
    The tories are turning people into sovoks. They despise the state yet want everything from it. Exhibit A: the pathetic mewling of the 100k+ earners about their state subsidised childcare.
    It's ridiculous how many people on here are too foolish to realize the complaint is about a massive disincentive to work and what it will do to UK tax receipts. I doubt the analysts at the various tax think tanks complaining about it are on 100k a year.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
    Let's see what happens with the council elections.

    It will be somewhere between a damp squib and a fiasco.

    Anyone sent home to get photo ID should return and vote against the Tory on the ballot paper. Its the only way to make an impact.
    Yes, but if they don't have an ID return with a saucepan and make some noise. Nobody should have their vote taken from them and take it lying down. People died so we can vote.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
    Let's see what happens with the council elections.

    It will be somewhere between a damp squib and a fiasco.

    Anyone sent home to get photo ID should return and vote against the Tory on the ballot paper. Its the only way to make an impact.
    I had planned to go down with without ID and make a scene. Unfortunately, as I’m probably going to be housebound, I have to vote by post.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 1,993

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
    Let's see what happens with the council elections.

    It will be somewhere between a damp squib and a fiasco.

    Anyone sent home to get photo ID should return and vote against the Tory on the ballot paper. Its the only way to make an impact.
    Yes, but if they don't have an ID return with a saucepan and make some noise. Nobody should have their vote taken from them and take it lying down. People died so we can vote.
    Isn't ID standard for Northern Ireland? I don't remember anyone complaining about it in the past.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Carnyx said:

    From the doorsteps...

    We are reminding identified Con voters of the need for ID at the polling station. Or offering them a postal vote form.

    So I'm not sure it is a major issue.

    WTF!? Condemned out of your own mouth for deliberate voter suppression.

    "reminding identified Con voters" - but not Labour, LD, Reform ...
    This is politics....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    In any case, Plymouth's civic centre architecture is *very* distinctive. That's Guz all right ...

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,715
    WillG said:

    Foxy said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
    Let's see what happens with the council elections.

    It will be somewhere between a damp squib and a fiasco.

    Anyone sent home to get photo ID should return and vote against the Tory on the ballot paper. Its the only way to make an impact.
    Yes, but if they don't have an ID return with a saucepan and make some noise. Nobody should have their vote taken from them and take it lying down. People died so we can vote.
    Isn't ID standard for Northern Ireland? I don't remember anyone complaining about it in the past.
    Northern Ireland had a problem with personation “ vote early, early vote often “.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    Carnyx said:

    From the doorsteps...

    We are reminding identified Con voters of the need for ID at the polling station. Or offering them a postal vote form.

    So I'm not sure it is a major issue.

    WTF!? Condemned out of your own mouth for deliberate voter suppression.

    "reminding identified Con voters" - but not Labour, LD, Reform ...
    This is politics....
    The shamelessness astounds me. Really does.

    You have disclaimed any right to make any moral judgement on PB ever again.
  • If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,042
    Sandpit said:

    Andrew Neil: Budget a “Missed Opportunity” for growth.

    It takes some cheek to pose as a tax-cutter when you’re raising CT from 19 per cent to 25 per cent. The Chancellor was trying to claim that his new allowances would compensate for the higher headline rate. But they won’t. At the moment, if you invest £100 you can claim £130 in deductions before you pay tax on profits at 19 per cent.

    “From next month (and only for three years), if you invest £100 you’ll be able to deduct £100 before paying profits’ tax of 25 per cent. If you think that’s a tax cut, I have a bridge to sell you.”


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11865147/ANDREW-NEIL-safety-Budget-come-seen-missed-opportunity-Tories.html

    I do dimly recall Maxpb hailing this wonderful new era of CT that would revolutionise business investment.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199

    If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.

    It's a shitty change introduced for shitty reasons in a shitty way. So about average for the current government.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,744
    edited March 2023
    mwadams said:

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    Isn't there supposed to be a Liberal Democrat Councillor in that photo, pointing at a tree and looking sad? Or are they currently all allocated to standing by potholes looking sad?
    In my aspiration to be a Devon expert I have checked Wiki and there isn’t a single LD on Plymouth City Council, Tory minority admin apparently. If Ed Davey was on the ball he should bus some in for some finger pointing.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,182

    If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.

    But who benefits most from Dodgy postal votes? It doesn't follow that the party who benefits most from postal votes benefits most from DPVs.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199
    Cookie said:

    If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.

    But who benefits most from Dodgy postal votes? It doesn't follow that the party who benefits most from postal votes benefits most from DPVs.
    You're confusing who benefits from dodgy votes (rarely anyone), with who benefits from making a particular form of voting more difficult (making postal voting more difficult probably doesn't benefit the Conservatives, making in person voting more difficult probably does).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    From the doorsteps...

    We are reminding identified Con voters of the need for ID at the polling station. Or offering them a postal vote form.

    So I'm not sure it is a major issue.

    WTF!? Condemned out of your own mouth for deliberate voter suppression.

    "reminding identified Con voters" - but not Labour, LD, Reform ...
    This is politics....
    The shamelessness astounds me. Really does.

    You have disclaimed any right to make any moral judgement on PB ever again.
    I'll remind any SNP voters I find then.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    And I have to inform you to chill, man. ;)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,764
    People who are sufficiently interested in politics to vote in local elections will have I/D.

    The problem in Tower Hamlets is above all voter intimidation which the police treat as “a cultural matter.”
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    NHS unions to agree a deal that gives them a one off bonus and a smaller standard pay rise. They should have done this ages ago.

    Teachers look like they will struggle to get a deal now, the money is all spent.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Sandpit said:

    Andrew Neil: Budget a “Missed Opportunity” for growth.

    It takes some cheek to pose as a tax-cutter when you’re raising CT from 19 per cent to 25 per cent. The Chancellor was trying to claim that his new allowances would compensate for the higher headline rate. But they won’t. At the moment, if you invest £100 you can claim £130 in deductions before you pay tax on profits at 19 per cent.

    “From next month (and only for three years), if you invest £100 you’ll be able to deduct £100 before paying profits’ tax of 25 per cent. If you think that’s a tax cut, I have a bridge to sell you.”


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11865147/ANDREW-NEIL-safety-Budget-come-seen-missed-opportunity-Tories.html

    I do dimly recall Maxpb hailing this wonderful new era of CT that would revolutionise business investment.
    The superdeduction was temporary and didn't work very well. This includes more areas of expensing which is why us much more expensive. Andrew Neil doesn't know what he's talking about, though I agree it should be made permanent and include R&D and infrastructure.
  • Sandpit said:

    Andrew Neil: Budget a “Missed Opportunity” for growth.

    It takes some cheek to pose as a tax-cutter when you’re raising CT from 19 per cent to 25 per cent. The Chancellor was trying to claim that his new allowances would compensate for the higher headline rate. But they won’t. At the moment, if you invest £100 you can claim £130 in deductions before you pay tax on profits at 19 per cent.

    “From next month (and only for three years), if you invest £100 you’ll be able to deduct £100 before paying profits’ tax of 25 per cent. If you think that’s a tax cut, I have a bridge to sell you.”


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11865147/ANDREW-NEIL-safety-Budget-come-seen-missed-opportunity-Tories.html

    He's absolutely right. The Super Deduction was brilliant, even for a small business owner like me. OK so neither of my companies will be affected by the new 25% rate. And that is the point - if you are that bigger company making a serious investment in kit, this is a hammer blow.

    There seems to be this delusion amongst today's Tories where they repeat a lie and insist it is true. But it is still a lie, and this is not a tax cutting growth budget no matter how many times they insist that it is.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,084
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Not allowed, under the supposedly anti-Swampy laws so lauded by CR this morning as being clearly aimed at greenies.
    If the government is elected through voter suppression then nobody is under any moral obligation to obey its laws.
    The tories are turning people into sovoks. They despise the state yet want everything from it. Exhibit A: the pathetic mewling of the 100k+ earners about their state subsidised childcare.
    Nothing new there. Throughout my adult life, British voters have demanded something like European social services for USA taxes.

    With the fiscal consequences we're now seeing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    From the doorsteps...

    We are reminding identified Con voters of the need for ID at the polling station. Or offering them a postal vote form.

    So I'm not sure it is a major issue.

    WTF!? Condemned out of your own mouth for deliberate voter suppression.

    "reminding identified Con voters" - but not Labour, LD, Reform ...
    This is politics....
    The shamelessness astounds me. Really does.

    You have disclaimed any right to make any moral judgement on PB ever again.
    I'll remind any SNP voters I find then.
    You can't accuse me of having an interest in the election, as any in Guz will have to have a postal vote anyway. But consider this.

    A. Tory Gmt changes the rules.
    B. Tories on the ground tell only Tory voters.

    See?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    edited March 2023
    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC
  • kamski said:

    If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.

    It's a shitty change introduced for shitty reasons in a shitty way. So about average for the current government.
    Exactly. @Sandpit bemoaned this being a political issue. When it is the government who have made it so. The Tories see a glorious opportunity to disenfranchise poor and young voters. They hope that by putting up barriers they will dissuade them from voting, knowing that once you get into the habit of not voting its very hard to be persuaded to do so.

    It is profoundly cynical, attacking a "problem" that nobody can quantify at any scale, whilst completely ignoring the actual fraud which has been uncovered from postal voting.

    THAT is why it is political.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 14,878

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Or they could get something between now and the vote that proves who they are.

    Many, many other nations require proof of ID when voting. I would rather accept either polling card or proof if the polling card isn't presented but for something as important as voting in a democracy, it shouldn't be just taken on trust that you are Joe Bloggs of 123 Fake St.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    Sean_F said:

    People who are sufficiently interested in politics to vote in local elections will have I/D.

    The problem in Tower Hamlets is above all voter intimidation which the police treat as “a cultural matter.”

    On the first point, there is a chunk of people not very interested in following politics who do go along to vote as a chore that they ought to do, and some of them will be caught short. I doubt if it will be a huge number but enough to annoy everyone.

    I must admit that I'm surprised that 50% of 69-year-olds don't renew their licences. Everyone in that age bracket who I know has renewed, with a slight sense of relief that they don't have to retake their tests and prove familiarity with all the Highway Code updates.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606

    kamski said:

    If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.

    It's a shitty change introduced for shitty reasons in a shitty way. So about average for the current government.
    Exactly. @Sandpit bemoaned this being a political issue. When it is the government who have made it so. The Tories see a glorious opportunity to disenfranchise poor and young voters. They hope that by putting up barriers they will dissuade them from voting, knowing that once you get into the habit of not voting its very hard to be persuaded to do so.

    It is profoundly cynical, attacking a "problem" that nobody can quantify at any scale, whilst completely ignoring the actual fraud which has been uncovered from postal voting.

    THAT is why it is political.
    When I was living in Tower Hamlets, my flatmate had his vote stolen. Someone "moved" his registration to a new address. When he reported it to the police, they tried not to record it as a crime.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,744
    Carnyx said:

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    In any case, Plymouth's civic centre architecture is *very* distinctive. That's Guz all right ...

    Never been to Plymouth but yep, from the pic there does seem to be evidence of architect Gōring. Visited Dresden a couple of years ago and certainly some similarities with the DDR architecture there, and with parts of Glasgow it has to be said.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    kamski said:

    If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.

    It's a shitty change introduced for shitty reasons in a shitty way. So about average for the current government.
    Exactly. @Sandpit bemoaned this being a political issue. When it is the government who have made it so. The Tories see a glorious opportunity to disenfranchise poor and young voters. They hope that by putting up barriers they will dissuade them from voting, knowing that once you get into the habit of not voting its very hard to be persuaded to do so.

    It is profoundly cynical, attacking a "problem" that nobody can quantify at any scale, whilst completely ignoring the actual fraud which has been uncovered from postal voting.

    THAT is why it is political.
    My understanding was that the proposal had originally come from the Electoral Comission, who almost everyone trusts to be impartial. OGH disagrees with me, so I am happy to be corrected.

    From where did the proposal originate?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.




    What Labour dine in Sheffield made me very very angry.

    I wonder if these two crimes are linked? A contractor in a lobby selling a solution where there isn’t a problem?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC

    The new TikTok female face filter is scary as hell. It basically makes any woman look like a 9 or 10, and freaks them out when they see their own face.

    I genuinely feel for teenagers exposed to this stuff, and it’s only going to get worse with advances in AI and image manipulation.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=pZ47QJG-_NU
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.

    It's a shitty change introduced for shitty reasons in a shitty way. So about average for the current government.
    Exactly. @Sandpit bemoaned this being a political issue. When it is the government who have made it so. The Tories see a glorious opportunity to disenfranchise poor and young voters. They hope that by putting up barriers they will dissuade them from voting, knowing that once you get into the habit of not voting its very hard to be persuaded to do so.

    It is profoundly cynical, attacking a "problem" that nobody can quantify at any scale, whilst completely ignoring the actual fraud which has been uncovered from postal voting.

    THAT is why it is political.
    My understanding was that the proposal had originally come from the Electoral Comission, who almost everyone trusts to be impartial. OGH disagrees with me, so I am happy to be corrected.

    From where did the proposal originate?
    The US Republican party.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,911

    HYUFD said:

    Bus passes will be fine for pensioners, even if they don't still have a driving licence or passport.

    Most likely it will lead to a fall in turnout affecting all parties, if you turn up at the polling station for a local election and are turned away because you don't have photo ID then you most likely won't bother to go back and get it even if you do. When only around a third of voters vote in most local elections anyway that is hardly going to improve local democracy!

    Personally I would have just had Photo ID for councils where electoral fraud has been an issue like Tower Hamlets, not imposed it nationwide

    Hopefully anyone blocked from voting will engage in vocal protests and civil disobedience. Being blocked from voting on some petty technicality introduced for clearly partisan reasons is an outrage and nobody should tolerate it.
    Or they could get something between now and the vote that proves who they are.

    Many, many other nations require proof of ID when voting. I would rather accept either polling card or proof if the polling card isn't presented but for something as important as voting in a democracy, it shouldn't be just taken on trust that you are Joe Bloggs of 123 Fake St.
    Countries with compulsory ID cards, to ensure there is no element of voter suppression.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,083
    Sandpit said:

    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC

    The new TikTok female face filter is scary as hell. It basically makes any woman look like a 9 or 10, and freaks them out when they see their own face.

    I genuinely feel for teenagers exposed to this stuff, and it’s only going to get worse with advances in AI and image manipulation.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=pZ47QJG-_NU
    That's horrible. It makes them all look like they've had bad plastic surgery.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,701
    MaxPB said:

    NHS unions to agree a deal that gives them a one off bonus and a smaller standard pay rise. They should have done this ages ago.

    Teachers look like they will struggle to get a deal now, the money is all spent.

    RMT in the mud, as the saying goes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sean_F said:

    People who are sufficiently interested in politics to vote in local elections will have I/D.

    The problem in Tower Hamlets is above all voter intimidation which the police treat as “a cultural matter.”

    On the first point, there is a chunk of people not very interested in following politics who do go along to vote as a chore that they ought to do, and some of them will be caught short. I doubt if it will be a huge number but enough to annoy everyone.

    I must admit that I'm surprised that 50% of 69-year-olds don't renew their licences. Everyone in that age bracket who I know has renewed, with a slight sense of relief that they don't have to retake their tests and prove familiarity with all the Highway Code updates.
    Way offtopic, but here in the sandpit one needs to do an eye test every 5 years, as a condition of renewing their driving licence. It can be done at any optician and costs £20.

    I’ve recently needed reading glasses (the usual +1.5), aged 45, but it shows the speed at which eyesight can deteriorate.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    You do realise you are replying to Field Marshall Jessop of the PB Toy Soldiers (Armchair Regiment) ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Excellent.

    Another opportunity for me to roll out my I went to vote one time and was told I'd already voted story.

    Assuming it was cock up and not conspiracy then having a photo ID wouldn't necessarily prevent a lapse of concentration and the same problem occurring. If it was conspiracy and not cock up it might well prevent fraud.

    Meanwhile, my aunt (87) and my mother (93 today), both long non-drivers with their bank cards the only ID they possess - I doubt either has a valid passport - and both of whom believe it is important to turn up in person to vote so don't have postal votes, are therefore effectively disenfranchised.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    Second! Really dislike this being made into a political issue. The proposal came from the Electoral Commission, and all parties should be working hard to make people aware of the change.

    It didnt.
    Page 1 of the Electoral Commission report in 2016 explicitly recommended it, see point 1.4:
    We therefore recommended that there should be a requirement for electors
    across Great Britain to present an acceptable form of identification prior to being
    issued with a ballot paper and voting at the polling station.


    image
    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/Proof-of-identity-scheme-updated-March-2016.pdf
    Thanks for that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,123

    Carnyx said:

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    In any case, Plymouth's civic centre architecture is *very* distinctive. That's Guz all right ...

    Never been to Plymouth but yep, from the pic there does seem to be evidence of architect Gōring. Visited Dresden a couple of years ago and certainly some similarities with the DDR architecture there, and with parts of Glasgow it has to be said.
    Not sure exactly where, but this was my gut reaction. it is also rather Le Havre-ish.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@50.3703198,-4.1407499,3a,75y,70.6h,86.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSHhcG8Obtj74AlddZ-J1-A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    Carnyx said:

    From the doorsteps...

    We are reminding identified Con voters of the need for ID at the polling station. Or offering them a postal vote form.

    So I'm not sure it is a major issue.

    WTF!? Condemned out of your own mouth for deliberate voter suppression.

    "reminding identified Con voters" - but not Labour, LD, Reform ...
    This is politics....
    That's a pretty lowdown dirty attitude Mark – and not one I'd expect from you.

    I thought you were one of the good guys?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    You do realise you are replying to Field Marshall Jessop of the PB Toy Soldiers (Armchair Regiment) ?
    You really appear to have an issue with me, that you are all too keen to note on here in thread after thread.

    I might suggest that's your issue, not mine.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,010
    edited March 2023
    Sandpit said:

    kamski said:

    If the Tories were genuine about securing election integrity why didn’t they focus on postal voting?

    Ah yes, a key Tory demographic extensively uses postal voting.

    It's a shitty change introduced for shitty reasons in a shitty way. So about average for the current government.
    Exactly. @Sandpit bemoaned this being a political issue. When it is the government who have made it so. The Tories see a glorious opportunity to disenfranchise poor and young voters. They hope that by putting up barriers they will dissuade them from voting, knowing that once you get into the habit of not voting its very hard to be persuaded to do so.

    It is profoundly cynical, attacking a "problem" that nobody can quantify at any scale, whilst completely ignoring the actual fraud which has been uncovered from postal voting.

    THAT is why it is political.
    My understanding was that the proposal had originally come from the Electoral Comission, who almost everyone trusts to be impartial. OGH disagrees with me, so I am happy to be corrected.

    From where did the proposal originate?
    You were right - from the Electoral Commission back in 2014. But what they recommended is not what is being implemented. The recommendations:
    1 Returning Officers / Police to tackle high risk of fraud in high risk areas
    2 Ban party activists from handling postal / proxy vote forms
    3 Mandatory ID at polling stations once a suitable proof of identity scheme was in place

    The party political element is that the Tories have cherry-picked the bits that favour them and discarded the rest. Party hacks still hand out postal & proxy forms which anyone can have for any reason. Which creates a client vote for parties and allows fraud to continue.

    No action has been taken in the areas with the genuine issues - as has been noted above the police are so stretched that they do not want to know. Back on Teesside we had a discussion with plod about what appeared to be a pretty clear cut fraud and they simply didn't want to know.

    And the bit that has created the headlines is smashing on with voter ID without having sorted out the ID scheme. We have absurdities such as one bus pass being accepted for old people and the one for young people being refused. And an LA-run form which is in itself easy to fake and almost nobody knows about. 2m adults do not have valid ID and are barred from turning up to vote in May.

    I don't have any specific objection to voter ID, then again I support a national ID card scheme. But not as has been implemented where pensioners who likely vote Tory are given free reign and the poor and young are disenfranchised.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,410
    TOPPING said:

    Excellent.

    Another opportunity for me to roll out my I went to vote one time and was told I'd already voted story.

    Assuming it was cock up and not conspiracy then having a photo ID wouldn't necessarily prevent a lapse of concentration and the same problem occurring. If it was conspiracy and not cock up it might well prevent fraud.

    Meanwhile, my aunt (87) and my mother (93 today), both long non-drivers with their bank cards the only ID they possess - I doubt either has a valid passport - and both of whom believe it is important to turn up in person to vote so don't have postal votes, are therefore effectively disenfranchised.

    Just politics Topping, just politics.

    Wait for Labours mandatory voting ID app.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    edited March 2023
    This compulsory voting ID scheme is crass and unnecessary. It damages not only the electoral system, but also faith in the electoral system.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,252
    Sandpit said:

    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC

    The new TikTok female face filter is scary as hell. It basically makes any woman look like a 9 or 10, and freaks them out when they see their own face.

    I genuinely feel for teenagers exposed to this stuff, and it’s only going to get worse with advances in AI and image manipulation.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=pZ47QJG-_NU
    I now know what a THOT is. I did not need to know that :disappointed:

    This is really messed up and will mess with young (and older) women's heads. And who knows, men's too. They will also be led to think that all men have these criteria on attractiveness - the most insecure women I know aspire to the after-filter kind of look; the happier ones are more like the before look (a generalisation, for sure, not universal - but the unhappiest are those who aspire unsuccessfully to the after look). I've always found the happier/more self confident ones more attractive (also, for me, the case for 2 out of 3 here, with not much preference either way for the other).

    The show itself is also a bit disturbing, but not as much as the tiktok filter.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957

    Carnyx said:

    From the doorsteps...

    We are reminding identified Con voters of the need for ID at the polling station. Or offering them a postal vote form.

    So I'm not sure it is a major issue.

    WTF!? Condemned out of your own mouth for deliberate voter suppression.

    "reminding identified Con voters" - but not Labour, LD, Reform ...
    This is politics....
    That's a pretty lowdown dirty attitude Mark – and not one I'd expect from you.

    I thought you were one of the good guys?
    Aw c'mon - show me a Labour or LibDem canvasser on the doorsteps who finds a Tory and reminds them of the new ID law or offers them a postal vote.

    Number of instances? Zero.

    You identify your vote, then make sure it votes for your candidate. I can't believe the amount of pearl-clutching from stating the bleeding obvious....
  • pingping Posts: 3,724
    Sandpit said:

    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC

    The new TikTok female face filter is scary as hell. It basically makes any woman look like a 9 or 10, and freaks them out when they see their own face.

    I genuinely feel for teenagers exposed to this stuff, and it’s only going to get worse with advances in AI and image manipulation.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=pZ47QJG-_NU
    Those two guys are really unpleasant.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,252

    Sean_F said:

    People who are sufficiently interested in politics to vote in local elections will have I/D.

    The problem in Tower Hamlets is above all voter intimidation which the police treat as “a cultural matter.”

    On the first point, there is a chunk of people not very interested in following politics who do go along to vote as a chore that they ought to do, and some of them will be caught short. I doubt if it will be a huge number but enough to annoy everyone.

    I must admit that I'm surprised that 50% of 69-year-olds don't renew their licences. Everyone in that age bracket who I know has renewed, with a slight sense of relief that they don't have to retake their tests and prove familiarity with all the Highway Code updates.
    Yep, also surprised by that. It would be interesting to see the sex breakdown. I do know of two women who did not renew at 70, relying instead on their partners to drive - both had more or less stopped driving by that point already (my mother and an aunt-in-law, if there is such a thing).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,744
    A query for any PB Google experts.
    I have a gmail account which I have linked to my main Yahoo mail which I keep mainly for ebay and yesterday I received a Critical Security Alert from Google saying someone knows my gmail password, however it was for my email with an added . in it (therefore not my actual address). My gmail account now seems to be locked and it's asking to go through the process of signing in and setting up a new password for the incorrect gmail account. Is this fishy (or phishy)?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    People who are sufficiently interested in politics to vote in local elections will have I/D.

    The problem in Tower Hamlets is above all voter intimidation which the police treat as “a cultural matter.”

    On the first point, there is a chunk of people not very interested in following politics who do go along to vote as a chore that they ought to do, and some of them will be caught short. I doubt if it will be a huge number but enough to annoy everyone.

    I must admit that I'm surprised that 50% of 69-year-olds don't renew their licences. Everyone in that age bracket who I know has renewed, with a slight sense of relief that they don't have to retake their tests and prove familiarity with all the Highway Code updates.
    Way offtopic, but here in the sandpit one needs to do an eye test every 5 years, as a condition of renewing their driving licence. It can be done at any optician and costs £20.

    I’ve recently needed reading glasses (the usual +1.5), aged 45, but it shows the speed at which eyesight can deteriorate.
    Even if you don’t have glasses, book an eye test once a year.

    Many places (Boots etc) do if for free.

    Apart from detecting eyesight deterioration, there is a whole raft of illnesses they can detect by looking in the eye.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598
    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC

    The new TikTok female face filter is scary as hell. It basically makes any woman look like a 9 or 10, and freaks them out when they see their own face.

    I genuinely feel for teenagers exposed to this stuff, and it’s only going to get worse with advances in AI and image manipulation.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=pZ47QJG-_NU
    I now know what a THOT is. I did not need to know that :disappointed:

    This is really messed up and will mess with young (and older) women's heads. And who knows, men's too. They will also be led to think that all men have these criteria on attractiveness - the most insecure women I know aspire to the after-filter kind of look; the happier ones are more like the before look (a generalisation, for sure, not universal - but the unhappiest are those who aspire unsuccessfully to the after look). I've always found the happier/more self confident ones more attractive (also, for me, the case for 2 out of 3 here, with not much preference either way for the other).

    The show itself is also a bit disturbing, but not as much as the tiktok filter.
    Nor me – never heard the term before.

    (The two hosts are very ungallant by the way – commenting on the ladies' attractiveness)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,252

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    You do realise you are replying to Field Marshall Jessop of the PB Toy Soldiers (Armchair Regiment) ?
    Not getting involved in this fight, but 'Chairborne Division' seems the better put-down to me (someone else mentioned 'chairborne' earlier on this thread or the previous one)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Selebian said:

    Sean_F said:

    People who are sufficiently interested in politics to vote in local elections will have I/D.

    The problem in Tower Hamlets is above all voter intimidation which the police treat as “a cultural matter.”

    On the first point, there is a chunk of people not very interested in following politics who do go along to vote as a chore that they ought to do, and some of them will be caught short. I doubt if it will be a huge number but enough to annoy everyone.

    I must admit that I'm surprised that 50% of 69-year-olds don't renew their licences. Everyone in that age bracket who I know has renewed, with a slight sense of relief that they don't have to retake their tests and prove familiarity with all the Highway Code updates.
    Yep, also surprised by that. It would be interesting to see the sex breakdown. I do know of two women who did not renew at 70, relying instead on their partners to drive - both had more or less stopped driving by that point already (my mother and an aunt-in-law, if there is such a thing).
    It probably depends on location. Urban area with good transport links - can take or leave driving. Rural area, one bus a day - hang on to that license.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    You do realise you are replying to Field Marshall Jessop of the PB Toy Soldiers (Armchair Regiment) ?
    Admiral General Anabobazina of the PB Toy Moderators (Bathtub Navy), I presume?
  • Entirely off-topic. I ordered an ethernet adaptor from Starlink on Monday. £35 including shipping. It's just arrived, having been shipped from a Space X warehouse in LA.

    Airfreight LAX > Leipzig > East Midlands > Aberdeen, then straight onto a van and delivered to me here. How much has that cost them?
  • This compulsory voting ID scheme is crass and unnecessary. It damages not only the electoral system, but also faith in the electoral system.

    Precisely the idea!
  • A query for any PB Google experts.
    I have a gmail account which I have linked to my main Yahoo mail which I keep mainly for ebay and yesterday I received a Critical Security Alert from Google saying someone knows my gmail password, however it was for my email with an added . in it (therefore not my actual address). My gmail account now seems to be locked and it's asking to go through the process of signing in and setting up a new password for the incorrect gmail account. Is this fishy (or phishy)?

    Sounds phishy.

    General rule of thumb is to never click on any links in such an email.

    Go to gmail directly (or if its a banking email the banking page directly) on a website you know is legit, on a device you know is clean, and try to log in via that.

    If its genuinely locked, then might be worth getting in touch with their support, not sure how that works with them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.




    Risk assessment of trees being vulnerable to falling over, followed by one big job for the tree choppers, at a guess.

    I was told by a local councillor (Lib Dem) that they do it that way here, because if they announce the trees to be chopped, then a save-our-special-tree thing starts for all of them. Up to court cases. Some people seem to think that because they love it, a tree won’t fall on them…

    The problem is the risk assessment, of course. A tree may survive a certain amount of wind, and it’s a bit of guess from the assessor as to whether the tree is a risk. Unless it is visibility rotten in a big way…
  • Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC

    The new TikTok female face filter is scary as hell. It basically makes any woman look like a 9 or 10, and freaks them out when they see their own face.

    I genuinely feel for teenagers exposed to this stuff, and it’s only going to get worse with advances in AI and image manipulation.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=pZ47QJG-_NU
    I now know what a THOT is. I did not need to know that :disappointed:

    This is really messed up and will mess with young (and older) women's heads. And who knows, men's too. They will also be led to think that all men have these criteria on attractiveness - the most insecure women I know aspire to the after-filter kind of look; the happier ones are more like the before look (a generalisation, for sure, not universal - but the unhappiest are those who aspire unsuccessfully to the after look). I've always found the happier/more self confident ones more attractive (also, for me, the case for 2 out of 3 here, with not much preference either way for the other).

    The show itself is also a bit disturbing, but not as much as the tiktok filter.
    Its a bit like make-up too. I know women who won't leave the house "before they put their face on" and are permanently caked in make-up.

    Whereas others more confident in themselves put a much lighter touch on.

    As you say the more self-confident ones are more attractive typically there too.

    I'm sure self-confidence works in reverse for males appearances too though.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    You do realise you are replying to Field Marshall Jessop of the PB Toy Soldiers (Armchair Regiment) ?
    Admiral General Anabobazina of the PB Toy Moderators (Bathtub Navy), I presume?
    Not moderating anyone, you can post what you like. But the spectacle of Toy Soldiering is really quite amusing/embarrassing.

    Consider it words to the wise.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,530
    The government ignored the recommendations of their own Pickles review and went for the most restricted list of acceptable ID .

    Anyone trying to spin the new rules as anything but voter disenfranchisement is avoiding the facts .

    The fact that postal voting is now more open to fraud than at the voting centre highlights the Tories disgraceful attempts at ensuring their voter base can easily vote without giving a fig about fraud .

    The Tories in here need to just accept the reality and stop trying to hide behind the electoral commission as a means to legitimize the blatant disenfranchisement.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    You do realise you are replying to Field Marshall Jessop of the PB Toy Soldiers (Armchair Regiment) ?
    Admiral General Anabobazina of the PB Toy Moderators (Bathtub Navy), I presume?
    Not moderating anyone, you can post what you like. But the spectacle of Toy Soldiering is really quite amusing/embarrassing.

    Consider it words to the wise.
    Consider the idea that posting anything about a domain you are not a qualified professional in, is “Armchair X”

    Casting stones and all that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC

    The new TikTok female face filter is scary as hell. It basically makes any woman look like a 9 or 10, and freaks them out when they see their own face.

    I genuinely feel for teenagers exposed to this stuff, and it’s only going to get worse with advances in AI and image manipulation.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=pZ47QJG-_NU
    I now know what a THOT is. I did not need to know that :disappointed:

    This is really messed up and will mess with young (and older) women's heads. And who knows, men's too. They will also be led to think that all men have these criteria on attractiveness - the most insecure women I know aspire to the after-filter kind of look; the happier ones are more like the before look (a generalisation, for sure, not universal - but the unhappiest are those who aspire unsuccessfully to the after look). I've always found the happier/more self confident ones more attractive (also, for me, the case for 2 out of 3 here, with not much preference either way for the other).

    The show itself is also a bit disturbing, but not as much as the tiktok filter.
    Its a bit like make-up too. I know women who won't leave the house "before they put their face on" and are permanently caked in make-up.

    Whereas others more confident in themselves put a much lighter touch on.

    As you say the more self-confident ones are more attractive typically there too.

    I'm sure self-confidence works in reverse for males appearances too though.
    NOTICE TO ALL WOMEN: THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE PB EXPERT GENDER FEELINGS PANEL (MALE DIVISION).
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    nico679 said:

    The government ignored the recommendations of their own Pickles review and went for the most restricted list of acceptable ID .

    Anyone trying to spin the new rules as anything but voter disenfranchisement is avoiding the facts .

    The fact that postal voting is now more open to fraud than at the voting centre highlights the Tories disgraceful attempts at ensuring their voter base can easily vote without giving a fig about fraud .

    The Tories in here need to just accept the reality and stop trying to hide behind the electoral commission as a means to legitimize the blatant disenfranchisement.

    The electoral commission said that the voting card sent via the royal mail to your home was enough to provide valid id.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,598

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    You do realise you are replying to Field Marshall Jessop of the PB Toy Soldiers (Armchair Regiment) ?
    Admiral General Anabobazina of the PB Toy Moderators (Bathtub Navy), I presume?
    Not moderating anyone, you can post what you like. But the spectacle of Toy Soldiering is really quite amusing/embarrassing.

    Consider it words to the wise.
    Consider the idea that posting anything about a domain you are not a qualified professional in, is “Armchair X”

    Casting stones and all that.
    Whatever – most topics don't involve suggesting thousands of young men are sent to their death, while fulfilling your wargaming needs
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,606
    edited March 2023
    TOPPING said:

    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    Tik Tok banned on all government devices

    Just been announced in the HOC

    The new TikTok female face filter is scary as hell. It basically makes any woman look like a 9 or 10, and freaks them out when they see their own face.

    I genuinely feel for teenagers exposed to this stuff, and it’s only going to get worse with advances in AI and image manipulation.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=pZ47QJG-_NU
    I now know what a THOT is. I did not need to know that :disappointed:

    This is really messed up and will mess with young (and older) women's heads. And who knows, men's too. They will also be led to think that all men have these criteria on attractiveness - the most insecure women I know aspire to the after-filter kind of look; the happier ones are more like the before look (a generalisation, for sure, not universal - but the unhappiest are those who aspire unsuccessfully to the after look). I've always found the happier/more self confident ones more attractive (also, for me, the case for 2 out of 3 here, with not much preference either way for the other).

    The show itself is also a bit disturbing, but not as much as the tiktok filter.
    Its a bit like make-up too. I know women who won't leave the house "before they put their face on" and are permanently caked in make-up.

    Whereas others more confident in themselves put a much lighter touch on.

    As you say the more self-confident ones are more attractive typically there too.

    I'm sure self-confidence works in reverse for males appearances too though.
    NOTICE TO ALL WOMEN: THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE PB EXPERT GENDER FEELINGS PANEL (MALE DIVISION).
    On a serious note - as a parent, you should be aware that body shaming and the associated unrealistic depictions etc. is massive problem.

    I’m quite sure that goes for lots of adults as well.

    And it’s quite definitely a male problem as well. Certainly according to the expert in the field who did a Zoom call talk, organised by my daughters school, recently.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    nico679 said:

    The government ignored the recommendations of their own Pickles review and went for the most restricted list of acceptable ID .

    Anyone trying to spin the new rules as anything but voter disenfranchisement is avoiding the facts .

    The fact that postal voting is now more open to fraud than at the voting centre highlights the Tories disgraceful attempts at ensuring their voter base can easily vote without giving a fig about fraud .

    The Tories in here need to just accept the reality and stop trying to hide behind the electoral commission as a means to legitimize the blatant disenfranchisement.

    Who are the "Tories in here"?

    Well we have HY*FD.

    Who else?

    @MarqueeMark perhaps. @felix?

    Not many and apols you two if you are not.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    Not somewhere in Eastern Ukraine, surprisingly.


    Good to see we have so many Devon experts amongst our Scotch experts. ;)
    I have to inform you that posting an actual pic of place X by their MP does not an X expert make. There has to be much added bloviating to qualify.
    You do realise you are replying to Field Marshall Jessop of the PB Toy Soldiers (Armchair Regiment) ?
    Admiral General Anabobazina of the PB Toy Moderators (Bathtub Navy), I presume?
    Not moderating anyone, you can post what you like. But the spectacle of Toy Soldiering is really quite amusing/embarrassing.

    Consider it words to the wise.
    The problem is, because of you and @Topping, I am now somewhat censoring myself on certain topics. In Topping's case, I think it's accidental. In your case, I believe it's deliberate.

    You might also like to apply 'toy soldiering' to everything else we talk about on here, and ask what could be discussed if everyone took a similar attitude. The answer is, not much.
This discussion has been closed.