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Comments
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No it's reality. Make any form of economic activity too risky, burdensome, or onerous via tax or regulation and people will do less of it or stop totally. Simples. 75% of zero is zero. 30% of something can be a lot.Smarmeron said:@welshowl
The famous right wing idea that the rich are in need, and the poor get way too much?
Sometimes doing the above can make sense ( tobacco fax has been increased over 30 odd years by all sides to drive smoking down via price). Do it on income tax, (and others) and we all lose.0 -
Police inspector allegedly part of paedophile ring:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/former-police-inspector-part-paedophile-4417778?ICID=FB_mirror_main0 -
True. It will be a great Labour government !manofkent2014 said:
Its nothing compared to the service we will do the nation after the general election!surbiton said:
We don't need to. The UKIP supporters are doing a service to the nation. The bas****s !nigel4england said:
Nor can you.IOS said:Well what do you know.
Cameron's attempts to appeal to UKIP voters a disaster
When will they learn? They cannot pacify the UKIP threat.0 -
Once may indicate the effect of Paisley pyjamas,twice may indicate bi-polar illness.Mr Newmark needs some help it seems.He certainly does not need further attention.The problem for Westminster in general and the Tories in particular is why he was not offered the right kind of early intervention.0
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So how many MPs will UKIP have after GE2015 ?Socrates said:
What bizarre logic. According to the Survation poll, UKIP are taking huge chunks of votes from Labour and the Lib Dems, who haven't done anything to pacify UKIP at all.IOS said:Well what do you know.
Cameron's attempts to appeal to UKIP voters a disaster
When will they learn? They cannot pacify the UKIP threat.
If voters are moving from your party to a party whose views you prefer, it's pretty absurd to move away from them views as political strategy. The reason the mainstream parties are losing their support is that they treat their voters like idiots. They pretend they'll do things to address their concerns, while only giving curtain dressing.0 -
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
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My wife and I were part of that outward migration. It was pretty grim then. When I was back there a decade ago it was moving in that direction again - huge deficits, ever growing government.foxinsoxuk said:
In the late seventies and early eighties there was net outward migration. We need to do significant damage to the fabric of Britain to make it undesireable for immigrants. The combination of high taxes, high unemployment and industrial decline will be hard to replicate. The IMF induced cuts would decimate the welfare state and complete the job. We can look forward to 1976 again, with Ed Miliband in the Harold Wilson role (minus the common touch!)perdix said:
Immigrants would still come, the in-work benefits are a great attraction for anyone from a low wage nation.foxinsoxuk said:Immigrants will not come to Britain if there is social and industrial unrest, high taxes, race riots and a collapse in house prices.
Ed Millibands policy of crashing the economy, soaking the rich and giving power back to the Unions is the only one that offers a real return to the late seventies/early eighties sick man of Europe Britain. Do it properly and we would even go back to the net outward migration of those days. Popular music would also improve!
The politics of envy, penalizing success -the objective should be to grow the economy. Increasing taxation is unlikely to do much in that direction.0 -
Nonesurbiton said:
So how many MPs will UKIP have after GE2015 ?Socrates said:
What bizarre logic. According to the Survation poll, UKIP are taking huge chunks of votes from Labour and the Lib Dems, who haven't done anything to pacify UKIP at all.IOS said:Well what do you know.
Cameron's attempts to appeal to UKIP voters a disaster
When will they learn? They cannot pacify the UKIP threat.
If voters are moving from your party to a party whose views you prefer, it's pretty absurd to move away from them views as political strategy. The reason the mainstream parties are losing their support is that they treat their voters like idiots. They pretend they'll do things to address their concerns, while only giving curtain dressing.0 -
Why should they live on a state pension in a £2m + house ? Yet you are advising people to leave houses with 3 bedrooms to a 2 or 1 bedroom house to avoid the bedroom tax.chestnut said:
On a state pension?bigjohnowls said:and can afford to bear their share of deficit reduction
Your ignorance is staggering.0 -
Oh dear normally the delusions don't set in until the third year of their final term but it looks like Labour's are still hanging over from 2009.......surbiton said:
True. It will be a great Labour government !manofkent2014 said:
Its nothing compared to the service we will do the nation after the general election!surbiton said:
We don't need to. The UKIP supporters are doing a service to the nation. The bas****s !nigel4england said:
Nor can you.IOS said:Well what do you know.
Cameron's attempts to appeal to UKIP voters a disaster
When will they learn? They cannot pacify the UKIP threat.0 -
Probably between about 5 and 20. But it will be the election after that that they really surge.surbiton said:
So how many MPs will UKIP have after GE2015 ?Socrates said:
What bizarre logic. According to the Survation poll, UKIP are taking huge chunks of votes from Labour and the Lib Dems, who haven't done anything to pacify UKIP at all.IOS said:Well what do you know.
Cameron's attempts to appeal to UKIP voters a disaster
When will they learn? They cannot pacify the UKIP threat.
If voters are moving from your party to a party whose views you prefer, it's pretty absurd to move away from them views as political strategy. The reason the mainstream parties are losing their support is that they treat their voters like idiots. They pretend they'll do things to address their concerns, while only giving curtain dressing.0 -
anotherDave said:
!!manofkent2014 said:
1) The SDP had had 29 MPs already defect to them when they got those poll ratingsisam said:To be honest, the fact that the SDP were getting double UKIPs score 33 years ago has taken the edge off it for me...
.
I didn't know that.
I know I only remembered the Gang of Four until I read about it the other week.
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Apart from your appalling grammar, are you trying to tell me that the taxpayer is not paying part of your pension? If so why did you state the other day that 10%?of the vast NHS budget goes on paying it's pension liabilities? Surely if the taxpayer did not contribute to your pension then the full £100 Billion plus that the taxpayer coughs up would go to providing services?bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Also other than the public sector can you name me any other industry where an employee can retire at 54 with a super gold plated pension, Premier League footballers aside?
Yet you want to deny anyone over 66 a vote?
Someone questioned your ignorance earlier and they were right to do so, you are an unbelievably dim hypocrite.0 -
Speedy UNS is now clearly outdated, on these numbers and if it wins Rochester clearly with Labour in a poor third in a seat it held until 2010, UKIP could well hold the balance of power next year as Farage forecast0
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People who earn the money to pay the rent can live in a house with as many bedrooms as they like. It is only if they are claiming state benefits we ask them to cut their cloth according to their means. I think if you claim benefits, you have the moral obligation to mitigate the cost to the taxpayer and not claim money you don't have to.surbiton said:
Why should they live on a state pension in a £2m + house ? Yet you are advising people to leave houses with 3 bedrooms to a 2 or 1 bedroom house to avoid the bedroom tax.chestnut said:
On a state pension?bigjohnowls said:and can afford to bear their share of deficit reduction
Your ignorance is staggering.
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Whats your detales Nigel wot gramanigel4england said:
Apart from your appalling grammar, are you trying to tell me that the taxpayer is not paying part of your pension? If so why did you state the other day that 10%?of the vast NHS budget goes on paying it's pension liabilities? Surely if the taxpayer did not contribute to your pension then the full £100 Billion plus that the taxpayer coughs up would go to providing services?bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Also other than the public sector can you name me any other industry where an employee can retire at 54 with a super gold plated pension, Premier League footballers aside?
Yet you want to deny anyone over 66 a vote?
Someone questioned your ignorance earlier and they were right to do so, you are an unbelievably dim hypocrite.0 -
It's the Tories who might ultimately buckle on PR. They know that under FPTP Labour will always be one of the two largest parties. Their own position is far less secure [their vote distribution is a bit closer to a third-party's than Labour's], and risk being eclipsed. It wasn't a million miles away from happening 1997-2005 versus the LibDems, and if in 1983, perchance, the Lab-Con voteshares had been reversed, then also...manofkent2014 said:
So you reckon that Labour, when Labour have over 50% of the seats in Westminster for only 35% of the votes, will go and change the voting system so that they at the next election can have only 35% of the seats on 35% of the vote (losing 100 plus MPs) whilst giving UKIP many tens of seats (15% on straight proportionality would give them 97 seats)? Well I can think of at least 100 Labour MPs who would probably rebel and likely ensure that the proposals would be voted down (given the Tories would almost certainly oppose it too).hucks67 said:If UKIP continue to attract 15% + of votes, the Tories will lose many seats in England and Labour could be on for a majority with about 35% of the vote. In that situation I would think that there would be pressure to change the voting system, as FPTP would not be relevant when there are more than two strong parties.
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bigjohnowls said:
By the end of the next Parliament could mean they don't put it up all the way until April 2020, but they and the Coalition are not far apart.JohnLilburne said:
So it is not a fiscal drag then.bigjohnowls said:
I can't quite remember what the date was by when the NMW will rise to £8.00, but if it is to do so by 2020 that is a compounded increase of 3.5%. This year it rose by just over 3% which if continued until 2020 would give £7.77, so the Labour policy is barely any different to the current Coalition policy.saddened said:
Can you explain why a rise to £8 from £6.50 lags inflationbigjohnowls said:
I would like to see minimum wage beat inflation you don't.saddened said:
Why do you want the minimum wage to lag behind inflation as per the Labour policy?bigjohnowls said:
I like £8 minimum wage and extra money for NHS from the mansion tax and other changes for the better off.saddened said:
You're the one raising the issue of policy, give us your two most impressive.BenM said:
Go to their website. http://www.labour.org.uksaddened said:
Still not thought of a Labour policy?BenM said:Ishmael_X said:
LOL. If that is a "petty swipe", please tell us what a serious indictment of Miliband's leadership would look like. And, while you are there, whether there are American tanks in Baghdad?BenM said:
David Cameron won't have made it to the petty anti Miliband swipe. His bowels would have emptied at the headline.TheScreamingEagles said:Front page of the Sunday Times makes great reading for UKIP and appalling for Ed Miliband
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzsXSUyCYAEV3rz.jpg
Cameron is as good as out.
"Cameron is as good as out" - do you mean he is going to be deposed? Care to indicate when, roughly?
Cant understand it when people prefer the taxpayer to subsidise rubbish employers.
Explain how the mansion tax will
A be collected
B is less harsh than the hated bedroom tax when it forces people to sell up to pay it.
You appear to be happy with the impact of the hated bedroom tax on people who happen to be in houses worth more than yours, no hint of envy there at all. It says a great deal about your mentality.
The promise is by the end of the next Parliament so as it increases every October that means by 1/10/19 ie 5 years. That is 4.1% compounded according to me
I think the Tories will match the £8 promise btw at GE20150 -
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.0 -
Because they've paid for both. Are you in such a rush that waiting for them to die is too long before fleecing their bereaved with tax?surbiton said:Why should they live on a state pension in a £2m + house ?
Interesting chain of thought though.
When does £2 million go down to £ 1 million? How about £500,000? £250,000?
"Why Should they live in a £250,00- house with a state pension?" Put them all in hovels.
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These Tory millionaires have ripped off the average local government pensioner,largely women,which is £68 a week,by an average of £25,000 by their vile Tory trick in Osborne's 1st budget in 2010 of changing the system from an RPI system to a CPI system.This is Tory trickery and jiggery-pokery of the worst order.Teachers will have had,on average £40,000 stolen from them.And yet the Tories still come back for more.Firefighters are resisting despite lock-outs from the Tory Mayor.The Tories then pass the money on to the spivs and speculators you find here on Pb.bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
0 -
ManofKent (earlier) Have to disagree on voting, look at the influence of Perot and Nader in the US for instance as 3rd Party Candidates. Though as I said I would agree to a second ballot vote0
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In other news Owen Patterson 'goes nuclear' on Energy
Scrap the Climate Change Act to keep the lights on, says Owen Paterson
The Climate Change Act 2008, which ties Britain into stringent environmental measures, should be suspended - and then scrapped - if other countries refuse to agree legally binding targets, says Owen Paterson MP
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/11156113/Scrap-the-Climate-Change-Act-to-keep-the-lights-on-says-Owen-Paterson.html
So now Tories are calling for another UKIP policy to be adopted0 -
Please remind us what Gordon Brown did to a pension system that was the envy of the world.volcanopete said:
These Tory millionaires have ripped off the average local government pensioner,largely women,which is £68 a week,by an average of £25,000 by their vile Tory trick in Osborne's 1st budget in 2010 of changing the system from an RPI system to a CPI system.This is Tory trickery and jiggery-pokery of the worst order.Teachers will have had,on average £40,000 stolen from them.And yet the Tories still come back for more.Firefighters are resisting despite lock-outs from the Tory Mayor.The Tories then pass the money on to the spivs and speculators you find here on Pb.bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Also please tell us what he did with that money.0 -
I imagine that in London even a multi-family hovel might be worth 2 million :-)chestnut said:
Because they've paid for both. Are you in such a rush that waiting for them to die is too long before fleecing their bereaved with tax?surbiton said:Why should they live on a state pension in a £2m + house ?
Interesting chain of thought though.
When does £2 million go down to £ 1 million? How about £500,000? £250,000?
"Why Should they live in a £250,00- house with a state pension?" Put them all in hovels.
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Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.0 -
Two words: Gordon Brown.volcanopete said:
These Tory millionaires have ripped off the average local government pensioner,largely women,which is £68 a week,by an average of £25,000 by their vile Tory trick in Osborne's 1st budget in 2010 of changing the system from an RPI system to a CPI system.This is Tory trickery and jiggery-pokery of the worst order.Teachers will have had,on average £40,000 stolen from them.And yet the Tories still come back for more.Firefighters are resisting despite lock-outs from the Tory Mayor.The Tories then pass the money on to the spivs and speculators you find here on Pb.bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
0 -
anyone know who the Labour MP is who is wanting to defect to UKIP on front of Sunday Times?0
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Please let it be Simon Danczukkjohnw said:anyone know who the Labour MP is who is wanting to defect to UKIP on front of Sunday Times?
0 -
Annuity rates are shite agreed! Oh I'm bloody jealous of you but I don't begrudge it a moment. You signed up to the system you got paid. Fair dos. Not your problem if the system was/is bonkers.bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.0 -
They haven't named them.kjohnw said:anyone know who the Labour MP is who is wanting to defect to UKIP on front of Sunday Times?
0 -
Are you above my new proposed maximum voting age?nigel4england said:
Please remind us what Gordon Brown did to a pension system that was the envy of the world.volcanopete said:
These Tory millionaires have ripped off the average local government pensioner,largely women,which is £68 a week,by an average of £25,000 by their vile Tory trick in Osborne's 1st budget in 2010 of changing the system from an RPI system to a CPI system.This is Tory trickery and jiggery-pokery of the worst order.Teachers will have had,on average £40,000 stolen from them.And yet the Tories still come back for more.Firefighters are resisting despite lock-outs from the Tory Mayor.The Tories then pass the money on to the spivs and speculators you find here on Pb.bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Also please tell us what he did with that money.
How much tax did you contribute to your state pension
When did you get it
Now think about the same for a 16 yr old0 -
You spent your entire life working for the state didn't you?bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.0 -
-
No. Sell it and move into £1.5m house. Pocket the £500k.It is called releasing the equity.chestnut said:
Because they've paid for both. Are you in such a rush that waiting for them to die is too long before fleecing their bereaved with tax?surbiton said:Why should they live on a state pension in a £2m + house ?
Interesting chain of thought though.
When does £2 million go down to £ 1 million? How about £500,000? £250,000?
"Why Should they live in a £250,00- house with a state pension?" Put them all in hovels.0 -
That warmth you feel is either -volcanopete said:
The Tories then pass the money on to the spivs and speculators you find here on Pb.bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
a - me basking in the warmth of your admiration and respect, or
b - you just peed in your pants :-)0 -
No. It'll probably be Chuka Umunna. He wants to sit with the cool kids.bigjohnowls said:
Please let it be Simon Danczukkjohnw said:anyone know who the Labour MP is who is wanting to defect to UKIP on front of Sunday Times?
0 -
After Heywood & Middleton, not such a big ask...bigjohnowls said:
I'm sure there must be decent people sitting in all parties thinking. "What is the point of the Lib/Lab/Con party?"0 -
I dedicated my life to serving the patients of the NHS if thats what you meansaddened said:
You spent your entire life working for the state didn't you?bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.0 -
Yeah, but a 16 year old today is likely to live to be 95. Yesterday's maths does not remotely apply. They will pay loads more into the system as the system will have to reflect the reality of the later 21st century and not cling to a 65 retirement shibboleth set in 1944 ( I think ) when the average life expectancy was 66.( ie one year more).bigjohnowls said:
Are you above my new proposed maximum voting age?nigel4england said:
Please remind us what Gordon Brown did to a pension system that was the envy of the world.volcanopete said:
These Tory millionaires have ripped off the average local government pensioner,largely women,which is £68 a week,by an average of £25,000 by their vile Tory trick in Osborne's 1st budget in 2010 of changing the system from an RPI system to a CPI system.This is Tory trickery and jiggery-pokery of the worst order.Teachers will have had,on average £40,000 stolen from them.And yet the Tories still come back for more.Firefighters are resisting despite lock-outs from the Tory Mayor.The Tories then pass the money on to the spivs and speculators you find here on Pb.bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Also please tell us what he did with that money.
How much tax did you contribute to your state pension
When did you get it
Now think about the same for a 16 yr old0 -
if labour lose a by-election to UKIP they are no longer just the party of disaffected tories, it will be the momentum they need and will surely guarantee them a voice in the live debates at GE0
-
But when if came to taking a decision to retire early, you were deciding 'not to work for Andrew Lansley'. Not deciding not to serve the patients of the NHS. Funny how that change of perspective happened at just the right time for you.bigjohnowls said:
I dedicated my life to serving the patients of the NHS if thats what you meansaddened said:
You spent your entire life working for the state didn't you?bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.
0 -
There were 19 Labour MPs who voted for an EU referendum in 2011
"Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley),
Rosie Cooper (Lancashire West),
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North),
Jon Cruddas (Dagenham & Rainham),
John Cryer (Leyton & Wanstead),
Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West),
Natascha Engel (Derbyshire North East),
Frank Field (Birkenhead),
Roger Godsiff (Birmingham Hall Green),
Kate Hoey (Vauxhall),
Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North),
Steve McCabe (Birmingham Selly Oak),
John McDonnell (Hayes & Harlington),
Austin Mitchell (Great Grimsby),
Dennis Skinner (Bolsover),
Andrew Smith (Oxford East),
Graham Stringer (Blackley & Broughton),
Gisela Stuart (Birmingham Edgbaston),
Mike Wood (Batley & Spen)."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/oct/25/mp-voted-for-eu-referendum0 -
So that's a yes then. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. So did I . The difference being I understand that the money that pays my pension (from the age of 50) is earned by people in the private sector. Something you seem unable to work out.bigjohnowls said:
I dedicated my life to serving the patients of the NHS if thats what you meansaddened said:
You spent your entire life working for the state didn't you?bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.0 -
I think Field would lose as UKIP in Birkenhead not sure who would win Rochdale possibly UKIPRodCrosby said:
After Heywood & Middleton, not such a big ask...bigjohnowls said:
I'm sure there must be decent people sitting in all parties thinking. "What is the point of the Lib/Lab/Con party?"0 -
I think UKIP has become the public saying to all the main parties - a plague on all your houses0
-
You think I am embarrassed?saddened said:
So that's a yes then. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. So did I . The difference being I understand that the money that pays my pension (from the age of 50) is earned by people in the private sector. Something you seem unable to work out.bigjohnowls said:
I dedicated my life to serving the patients of the NHS if thats what you meansaddened said:
You spent your entire life working for the state didn't you?bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.0 -
It's Nicholas Jackson!!!
Mark Reckless (@MarkReckless)
10/10/2014 19:56
Delighted to welcome Nicholas Jackson from the Rochester and Strood Labour party over to us in UKIP pic.twitter.com/5q6SREOnae0 -
Sorry I don't see the relevance. We were discussing turnout (and you specifically referred to 2012) being improved by ditching FPTP which I pointed out it wouldn't have been because Obama had a majority in the first ballot. Now given the elections you now refer to produced lower turnouts than 2012 I don't understand what point you are trying to make with that?HYUFD said:ManofKent (earlier) Have to disagree on voting, look at the influence of Perot and Nader in the US for instance as 3rd Party Candidates. Though as I said I would agree to a second ballot vote
You are also failing to recognise that it is a federal election. Unless you are going to trample all over the devolved status of each of the 50 states and undertake the greatest political centralisation I suspect since the US Civil War I don't think some sort of PR is a starter.0 -
I dedicated my life to serving the patients of the NHS if thats what you meanbigjohnowls said:
You think I am embarrassed?saddened said:
So that's a yes then. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. So did I . The difference being I understand that the money that pays my pension (from the age of 50) is earned by people in the private sector. Something you seem unable to work out.bigjohnowls said:
I dedicated my life to serving the patients of the NHS if thats what you meansaddened said:
You spent your entire life working for the state didn't you?bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.
It does sound that way to be honest.
Working for the NHS is nothing to be embarassed about.
I've had several bad experiences with the NHS, but that's hardly your problem, unless you lived in Yorkshire 10-15 years ago.0 -
bigjohnowls said:saddened said:
I think you're a bit dim in not understanding how lucky you are to be in receipt of an outstanding pension funded by the private sector. I'm in the same position but have moved on to work in the private sector while being paid a civil service pension. Believe me my colleagues are not going to get anything like what I get when they finish, mainly because they pay huge sums of tax for my pension, that I started drawing at age 50. You need to spend a little bit of time comparing what you get, compared to the private sector.bigjohnowls said:
You think I am embarrassed?saddened said:
So that's a yes then. It's nothing to be embarrassed about. So did I . The difference being I understand that the money that pays my pension (from the age of 50) is earned by people in the private sector. Something you seem unable to work out.bigjohnowls said:
I dedicated my life to serving the patients of the NHS if thats what you meanwelshowl said:
You spent your entire life working for the state didn't you?bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.nigel4england said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:nigel4england said:
?bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.0 -
Indeed. Imagine if Jim Dobbins hadn't died, he'd defected. UKIP would probably have won.RodCrosby said:
After Heywood & Middleton, not such a big ask...bigjohnowls said:
I'm sure there must be decent people sitting in all parties thinking. "What is the point of the Lib/Lab/Con party?"0 -
For BJO, as the reply thread is to long.
I think you're a bit dim in not understanding how lucky you are to be in receipt of an outstanding pension funded by the private sector. I'm in the same position but have moved on to work in the private sector while being paid a civil service pension. Believe me my colleagues are not going to get anything like what I get when they finish, mainly because they pay huge sums of tax for my pension, that I started drawing at age 50. You need to spend a little bit of time comparing what you get, compared to the private sector.0 -
I have a friend who is a retired USAF colonel. He started receiving his pension this year. He was convinced he'd paid for it and it took a fairly long lunchtime conversation involving scribbling on napkins before he understood that he is living it large courtesy of private sector taxpayers.saddened said:For BJO, as the reply thread is to (sic) long.
I think you're a bit dim in not understanding how lucky you are to be in receipt of an outstanding pension funded by the private sector. I'm in the same position but have moved on to work in the private sector while being paid a civil service pension. Believe me my colleagues are not going to get anything like what I get when they finish, mainly because they pay huge sums of tax for my pension, that I started drawing at age 50. You need to spend a little bit of time comparing what you get, compared to the private sector.0 -
Seeing as it's the Saturday night Roly Poly blog, and ukip have had a good week, I'll leave you with this
http://youtu.be/zllH86e-DFc0 -
bigjohnowls - you do have the fox without a tail air of a man going out early on bad back retirement?0
-
Correct. I joined the Army at 16, left at 27, worked for the police until 30, worked for a government department until 50, retired with a lump sum of 115,000 tax free and a pension of just over 15,000 per year, which becomes index linked next year on my 55 birthday. I know how incredibly fortunate I am. Sadly lots of tools have no concept of how well they have been treated by the state. These tools honestly think they deserve this because they have "served" the patients of the NHS and have no concept of what an impact it has on private sector workers..Tim_B said:
I have a friend who is a retired USAF colonel. He started receiving his pension this year. He was convinced he'd paid for it and it took a fairly long lunchtime conversation involving scribbling on napkins before he understood that he is living it large courtesy of private sector taxpayers.saddened said:For BJO, as the reply thread is to (sic) long.
I think you're a bit dim in not understanding how lucky you are to be in receipt of an outstanding pension funded by the private sector. I'm in the same position but have moved on to work in the private sector while being paid a civil service pension. Believe me my colleagues are not going to get anything like what I get when they finish, mainly because they pay huge sums of tax for my pension, that I started drawing at age 50. You need to spend a little bit of time comparing what you get, compared to the private sector.0 -
Well, Ed does have a women problemNinoinoz said:
Very principled of you; a demographic doesn't vote for your party, so deny them their democratic rights.bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
But nice of you to adopt a Papal Conclave eligibility criterion. Perhaps deny women the franchise while you're at it?0 -
I think we are starting to see evidence that UKIP is damaging Lab relatively more than it was before.
It's still not damaging Lab as much as Con but the differential is narrowing.
I think part of this is nothing to do with UKIP - rather it is the weak Miliband performance making normal Lab supporters more tempted to consider UKIP.
If Cameron can continue to perform strongly vs Miliband then he may be able to close the differential further - by getting some "Con UKIP" supporters back to Con, plus the more Miliband is damaged the more chance of "Lab UKIP" waverers ultimately going UKIP.
In both cases I think it is very likely we could see major movements in the final 24 hours pre GE - there are going to be lots of Con UKIP and Lab UKIP waverers who may well change their minds at the very last minute.0 -
Mail On Sunday article on the Survation poll:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2789512/record-poll-surge-gives-ukip-25-survey-hand-farage-astonishing-128-mps-puts-ed-miliband-new-low.html0 -
ManofKent The elections in question were still conducted under FPTP so that does not refute the point and the winner in both elections got less than 50%. Of course it would be difficult to implement, but states could agree to US presidential election being conducted on a second ballot basis as in France, same could go for US congress elections0
-
I think you better sit down because the Survation poll suggests the opposite. John Curtice reckons based on the rise of UKIP in the south they could take 100 seats off the Tories based on this latest poll...(the MOS link is in my last post).MikeL said:I think we are starting to see evidence that UKIP is damaging Lab relatively more than it was before.
It's still not damaging Lab as much as Con but the differential is narrowing.
I think part of this is nothing to do with UKIP - rather it is the weak Miliband performance making normal Lab supporters more tempted to consider UKIP.
If Cameron can continue to perform strongly vs Miliband then he may be able to close the differential further - by getting some "Con UKIP" supporters back to Con, plus the more Miliband is damaged the more chance of "Lab UKIP" waverers ultimately going UKIP.
In both cases I think it is very likely we could see major movements in the final 24 hours pre GE - there are going to be lots of Con UKIP and Lab UKIP waverers who may well change their minds at the very last minute.0 -
Assume I'm completely stupid - something I know won't take much effort on your part.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
As I understand it UKIP is for -
1 protecting borders and controlling immigration
2 Leave the EU.
Surely many Conservatives would be in favor of both of these.0 -
It's tragic, he honestly believes he is morally superior and therefore deserving of a better pension than the people who work to pay his.SeanT said:
I have dedicated my life to serving my f*cking readers. And I have no pension, no sick pay, no secure salary. Unlike you.bigjohnowls said:
I dedicated my life to serving the patients of the NHS if thats what you meansaddened said:
You spent your entire life working for the state didn't you?bigjohnowls said:
Annuity rates are shite arent they I had a £200k personal pension pot that makes up a small amount of my pension the 33/80ths of salary actuarilly reduced makes up most of it.welshowl said:
Er .... given current indexed linked annuity rates for 54 yr olds ...... Where can I sign on for your pension deal? Like wowser.... Enjoy. You won the lottery 33 years paying in notwithstanding. Given a £20k index linked pension at 65 ( 65 not 54) is about £ 630k as a lump sum to buy I imagine your deal is close to a million. ( I confess in making some salary assumptions there but the ratios apply whatever)bigjohnowls said:
Because I was not working for Lansley and could afford not to.nigel4england said:
Why did you retire early? At what age? And why are we paying for it?bigjohnowls said:
Where?nigel4england said:
FFS I've heard it all now.bigjohnowls said:
The country cant afford the gold plated pension brigade to outvote those who pay their pensions by the extent that is happening now IMOkle4 said:
On what grounds? If people are adults with functioning mental capacity what reason to deny them?bigjohnowls said:UKIP 128 seats surely that should be 1 seat. 28 for LD
Sounds fair to me after all the oldie demographics are too far in UKIPS favour about time we had a maximum voting age IMO
Voting age 16 to 66 I reckon
From what I have read you retired early after years in the NHS, you are the one with the gold plated pension that we all pay for. Why did you retire early anyway?
So people who have paid their taxes and NI all their working lives are to be denied their vote because they are pensioners and may not vote how you want them to.
And you call other people fascists?
54
Your not I paid up to 15% of my wages for 33 years into a pension scheme.
Your turn now.
Did somebody say something earlier about envy being a bad thing.
The puffed-up, putrid, moral self regard of the public sector really is something to behold.
UGH.0 -
A partial answer on the poll differences is that Survation's poll with YouGov's assumptions gives Lab 27.5, Con 25 and UKIP 21.2. We know from previous polling that Survation gives UKIP much higher scores, possibly because they name them explicitly and I think most pollsters still don't (though at this stage they probably should). So in combination you get a similar Labour poll lead but with UKIP much higher.
What tweaks the main parties level with Survation is lower Labour certainty to vote (which isn't normally measured by YouGov, partly because certainty fluctuates more than VI).0 -
UKIP, more than anything, are becoming viewed as the only viable agents of change...Tim_B said:
Assume I'm completely stupid - something I know won't take much effort on your part.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
As I understand it UKIP is for -
1 protecting borders and controlling immigration
2 Leave the EU.
Surely many Conservatives would be in favor of both of these.
It's 1981 all over again, with a twist.
Then, change was required because the alternatives were too extreme. Now, change is required because there is no difference in the alternatives.
Then, the SDP was credible because it had heavyweight politicos on board. Now, UKIP is credible because it abjures and abhors the political class...0 -
That's based on regional subsamples which are meaningless in a 1,000 total sample poll.manofkent2014 said:
I think you better sit down because the Survation poll suggests the opposite. John Curtice reckons based on the rise of UKIP in the south they could take 100 seats off the Tories based on this latest poll...(the MOS link is in my last post).MikeL said:I think we are starting to see evidence that UKIP is damaging Lab relatively more than it was before.
It's still not damaging Lab as much as Con but the differential is narrowing.
I think part of this is nothing to do with UKIP - rather it is the weak Miliband performance making normal Lab supporters more tempted to consider UKIP.
If Cameron can continue to perform strongly vs Miliband then he may be able to close the differential further - by getting some "Con UKIP" supporters back to Con, plus the more Miliband is damaged the more chance of "Lab UKIP" waverers ultimately going UKIP.
In both cases I think it is very likely we could see major movements in the final 24 hours pre GE - there are going to be lots of Con UKIP and Lab UKIP waverers who may well change their minds at the very last minute.
We have UKIP on 25 and Lab and Con overall level.
Look at the Mail on Sunday's own graphic to see the changes.0 -
I do wonder the more the metro liberal leftie elite that run tv, film, etc talk about UKIP, the more it seems their popularity grows. Panel shows now are obsessed with the anti-UKIP "jokes" (the Tories hardly get a bashing these days in comparison..seems like the order is UKIP, Ed Miliband, Tory, in the bashing stakes), e.g this week on Mock the Week, in one round was "things never to be heard at a party political conference", I would say 8 out of 10 of the gags were aimed at UKIP with the standard racist / anti-immigrant / homophobia slurs.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
Seems like if anything they are kinda of in weird way giving them the oxygen of free publicity. Same with the HIV hit job, all it seemed to do was bring to public awareness of an issue, which your Guardian types recoil with horror that somebody would utter such words, when it seems actually a large percentage of the population see nothing wrong with the suggestion.0 -
It's more like Maggie and Keith Joseph again really. Left wing consensus gets to the point of absurd misrule, and a revolt on the right is required to sort things out. The difference is that time was a neo-liberal insurgency within the Tory party, that eventually ran aground as Thatcher was out-manned and eventually knifed by the wets, this time it is nothing to do with the Tory party, and there is nothing the Clarke faction can do to subvert or undermine it.RodCrosby said:
UKIP, more than anything, are becoming viewed as the only viable agents of change...Tim_B said:
Assume I'm completely stupid - something I know won't take much effort on your part.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
As I understand it UKIP is for -
1 protecting borders and controlling immigration
2 Leave the EU.
Surely many Conservatives would be in favor of both of these.
It's 1981 all over again, with a twist.
Then, change was required because the alternatives were too extreme. Now, change is required because there is no difference in the alternatives.
Then, the SDP was credible because it had heavyweight politicos on board. Now, UKIP is credible because it abjures and abhors the political class...
0 -
Reading some of the crap on here I begin to find myself hoping for a UKIP surge.isam said:
Nonesurbiton said:
So how many MPs will UKIP have after GE2015 ?Socrates said:
What bizarre logic. According to the Survation poll, UKIP are taking huge chunks of votes from Labour and the Lib Dems, who haven't done anything to pacify UKIP at all.IOS said:Well what do you know.
Cameron's attempts to appeal to UKIP voters a disaster
When will they learn? They cannot pacify the UKIP threat.
If voters are moving from your party to a party whose views you prefer, it's pretty absurd to move away from them views as political strategy. The reason the mainstream parties are losing their support is that they treat their voters like idiots. They pretend they'll do things to address their concerns, while only giving curtain dressing.0 -
Across Europe, but especially here and in France the parallels with the 1930s are incredible. As the recession ends populism and fascism come to the fore. UKIP reflect popular frustrations, but belie the simple truth that the only way for people to succeed is to make a real effort to do so and not to seek a scapegoat, be it immigrants or, as in the 1930s, a small minority.
UKIP support is coming from those who are frustrated; but the reality is that they are frustrated by their own failures and shortcomings and woe betide the politician who has the courage to tell them that.
The should be no need for immigration at the levels we are experiencing, but our failure to properly educate or the failure of many of our citizens to seek or value a proper education makes it inevitable.0 -
YES -Quite right on Scotland I believe. Even Malcolm G will admit as such when you question him.SeanT said:
I think that's right. What's more, UKIP have emerged - or been thrust into prominence - at exactly the correct time. Cf Salmond and the indyref.RodCrosby said:
UKIP, more than anything, are becoming viewed as the only viable agents of change...Tim_B said:
Assume I'm completely stupid - something I know won't take much effort on your part.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
As I understand it UKIP is for -
1 protecting borders and controlling immigration
2 Leave the EU.
Surely many Conservatives would be in favor of both of these.
Do I think 45% of Scots want independence from the UK? No. I doubt that more than a third of Scots actually want this, but there is such disdain for ordinary politicians, such hatred of Westminster and London, such contempt for things-as-they-are, people are prepared to Vote for the Apocalypse in the vain hope it might be better than Reality, and also - more importantly - to stick up two fingers to the Powers That Be. And the referendum gave Scots an exceptional and unique opportunity to REALLY frighten the poshos down south.
Same goes for UKIP. In the past UKIP was a wasted vote. However, a UKIP vote now clearly and blatantly scares Westminster politicians, and menaces the status quo. Bonanza!
In that situation you can expect UKIP to GAIN support, as all those who want to affront the hated London liberal Establishment (without being a nasty BNP-er) seize their chance.
On present polls, I can see UKIP getting 15% in the GE, now, and seizing 20 seats in the south, despite FPTP.0 -
EBOLA - Ed Belongs Outside a Labour Administration0
-
He talks far to much sense to be in Labour.bigjohnowls said:
Please let it be Simon Danczukkjohnw said:anyone know who the Labour MP is who is wanting to defect to UKIP on front of Sunday Times?
0 -
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:
I do wonder the more the metro liberal leftie elite that run tv, film, etc talk about UKIP, the more it seems their popularity grows. Panel shows now are obsessed with the anti-UKIP "jokes" (the Tories hardly get a bashing these days in comparison..seems like the order is UKIP, Ed Miliband, Tory, in the bashing stakes), e.g this week on Mock the Week, in one round was "things never to be heard at a party political conference", I would say 8 out of 10 of the gags were aimed at UKIP with the standard racist / anti-immigrant / homophobia slurs.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
Seems like if anything they are kinda of in weird way giving them the oxygen of free publicity. Same with the HIV hit job, all it seemed to do was bring to public awareness of an issue, which your Guardian types recoil with horror that somebody would utter such words, when it seems actually a large percentage of the population see nothing wrong with the suggestion.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
0 -
But there is an absurdity to the whole thing.RodCrosby said:
UKIP, more than anything, are becoming viewed as the only viable agents of change...Tim_B said:
Assume I'm completely stupid - something I know won't take much effort on your part.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
As I understand it UKIP is for -
1 protecting borders and controlling immigration
2 Leave the EU.
Surely many Conservatives would be in favor of both of these.
It's 1981 all over again, with a twist.
Then, change was required because the alternatives were too extreme. Now, change is required because there is no difference in the alternatives.
Then, the SDP was credible because it had heavyweight politicos on board. Now, UKIP is credible because it abjures and abhors the political class...
It is surely obvious that whoever is in power - ie Lab, Con or even UKIP majority (or any coalition combination) - there is no chance at all of the Government having any impact at all on 95% of the lives of 95% of people.
No Government is in any position to make any significant change that will affect many people - even if they wanted to attempt to do so.0 -
As I've said before on here, the BBC should move to the model of PBS here, hold fund raisers about 3 times a year, and those who want to can fund it.RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:
I do wonder the more the metro liberal leftie elite that run tv, film, etc talk about UKIP, the more it seems their popularity grows. Panel shows now are obsessed with the anti-UKIP "jokes" (the Tories hardly get a bashing these days in comparison..seems like the order is UKIP, Ed Miliband, Tory, in the bashing stakes), e.g this week on Mock the Week, in one round was "things never to be heard at a party political conference", I would say 8 out of 10 of the gags were aimed at UKIP with the standard racist / anti-immigrant / homophobia slurs.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
Seems like if anything they are kinda of in weird way giving them the oxygen of free publicity. Same with the HIV hit job, all it seemed to do was bring to public awareness of an issue, which your Guardian types recoil with horror that somebody would utter such words, when it seems actually a large percentage of the population see nothing wrong with the suggestion.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.0 -
Shh... or you'll make people lose faith in "democracy"!MikeL said:
But there is an absurdity to the whole thing.RodCrosby said:
UKIP, more than anything, are becoming viewed as the only viable agents of change...Tim_B said:
Assume I'm completely stupid - something I know won't take much effort on your part.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
As I understand it UKIP is for -
1 protecting borders and controlling immigration
2 Leave the EU.
Surely many Conservatives would be in favor of both of these.
It's 1981 all over again, with a twist.
Then, change was required because the alternatives were too extreme. Now, change is required because there is no difference in the alternatives.
Then, the SDP was credible because it had heavyweight politicos on board. Now, UKIP is credible because it abjures and abhors the political class...
It is surely obvious that whoever is in power - ie Lab, Con or even UKIP majority (or any coalition combination) - there is no chance at all of the Government having any impact at all on 95% of the lives of 95% of people.
No Government is in any position to make any significant change that will affect many people - even if they wanted to attempt to do so.0 -
Our failure has been to make it acceptable for people to be as well off turning down jobs that are below them, and staying on benefits as it is to take those jobs and use them as a platform to improve their lives.Fenman said:
The should be no need for immigration at the levels we are experiencing, but our failure to properly educate or the failure of many of our citizens to seek or value a proper education makes it inevitable.
What chance does a member of a family which is second or third generation unemployed have against someone who has travelled across Europe to take on a bottom rung of the ladder job, which often will lead on to better things if enough effort is put into it.
0 -
You are utterly ridiculous....Fenman said:Across Europe, but especially here and in France the parallels with the 1930s are incredible. As the recession ends populism and fascism come to the fore. UKIP reflect popular frustrations, but belie the simple truth that the only way for people to succeed is to make a real effort to do so and not to seek a scapegoat, be it immigrants or, as in the 1930s, a small minority.
UKIP support is coming from those who are frustrated; but the reality is that they are frustrated by their own failures and shortcomings and woe betide the politician who has the courage to tell them that.
The should be no need for immigration at the levels we are experiencing, but our failure to properly educate or the failure of many of our citizens to seek or value a proper education makes it inevitable.0 -
This is what they say about the licence fee:RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:
I do wonder the more the metro liberal leftie elite that run tv, film, etc talk about UKIP, the more it seems their popularity grows. Panel shows now are obsessed with the anti-UKIP "jokes" (the Tories hardly get a bashing these days in comparison..seems like the order is UKIP, Ed Miliband, Tory, in the bashing stakes), e.g this week on Mock the Week, in one round was "things never to be heard at a party political conference", I would say 8 out of 10 of the gags were aimed at UKIP with the standard racist / anti-immigrant / homophobia slurs.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
Seems like if anything they are kinda of in weird way giving them the oxygen of free publicity. Same with the HIV hit job, all it seemed to do was bring to public awareness of an issue, which your Guardian types recoil with horror that somebody would utter such words, when it seems actually a large percentage of the population see nothing wrong with the suggestion.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.0 -
Half-hearted. Their policy should be to abolish it completely, and refund the last year's payment to every citizen who was conned/intimidated into paying it...manofkent2014 said:
This is what they say about the licence fee:RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:
I do wonder the more the metro liberal leftie elite that run tv, film, etc talk about UKIP, the more it seems their popularity grows. Panel shows now are obsessed with the anti-UKIP "jokes" (the Tories hardly get a bashing these days in comparison..seems like the order is UKIP, Ed Miliband, Tory, in the bashing stakes), e.g this week on Mock the Week, in one round was "things never to be heard at a party political conference", I would say 8 out of 10 of the gags were aimed at UKIP with the standard racist / anti-immigrant / homophobia slurs.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
Seems like if anything they are kinda of in weird way giving them the oxygen of free publicity. Same with the HIV hit job, all it seemed to do was bring to public awareness of an issue, which your Guardian types recoil with horror that somebody would utter such words, when it seems actually a large percentage of the population see nothing wrong with the suggestion.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
Radical, and a vote-winner!0 -
Is the BBC 'loved' like the NHS is allegedly 'loved'?0
-
Oh I don't know. One of UKIP's aspirations is for the Government to have less influence on voters lives. Surely that is feasible?MikeL said:
But there is an absurdity to the whole thing.RodCrosby said:
UKIP, more than anything, are becoming viewed as the only viable agents of change...Tim_B said:
Assume I'm completely stupid - something I know won't take much effort on your part.SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
As I understand it UKIP is for -
1 protecting borders and controlling immigration
2 Leave the EU.
Surely many Conservatives would be in favor of both of these.
It's 1981 all over again, with a twist.
Then, change was required because the alternatives were too extreme. Now, change is required because there is no difference in the alternatives.
Then, the SDP was credible because it had heavyweight politicos on board. Now, UKIP is credible because it abjures and abhors the political class...
It is surely obvious that whoever is in power - ie Lab, Con or even UKIP majority (or any coalition combination) - there is no chance at all of the Government having any impact at all on 95% of the lives of 95% of people.
No Government is in any position to make any significant change that will affect many people - even if they wanted to attempt to do so.
Of course if Westminster doesn't buck it's ideas up there are other considerations that will potentially influence 95% of voters such as the lights going out and energy being effectively rationed
Scrap the Climate Change Act to keep the lights on, says Owen Paterson
The Climate Change Act 2008, which ties Britain into stringent environmental measures, should be suspended - and then scrapped - if other countries refuse to agree legally binding targets, says Owen Paterson MP
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/11156113/Scrap-the-Climate-Change-Act-to-keep-the-lights-on-says-Owen-Paterson.html0 -
Except of course it also pays for the public communications network so whilst it could be scrapped part of the costs would have to be raised in another manner because Government needs a public communications network.RodCrosby said:
Half-hearted. Their policy should be to abolish it completely, and refund the last year's payment to every citizen who was conned/intimidated into paying it...manofkent2014 said:
This is what they say about the licence fee:RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
Radical, and a vote-winner!0 -
I don't think the fear factor is in play...i.e as soon as anybody tries to alter the NHS in any way, we get hour after hour of if anybody touches it, it will be like the US healthcare system (as if that is the only other system on the planet), and it is expensive, and fails the poor, yadda yadda yadda...Tim_B said:Is the BBC 'loved' like the NHS is allegedly 'loved'?
What fear can you put up about altering the telly tax? Your telly will be like the US? Given we now watch loads of US tv, both on mainstream, satellite and increasingly netflix, and Sky do the best sports coverage and increasingly spending huge sums on specialist arts programming. Plus, kids and adults, already just stream huge amounts of content (legally and illegally).
It is apple and oranges. Change to one can play on fears and emotions of a sicked love one not getting health care vs whats the telly tonight luv, oh I don't like that show.
Plus, tv is changing, tv tax or no tv tax. The license system isn't fit for purpose, anybody who doesn't want to pay can get away with not paying.0 -
Only in the Stockholm Syndrome sense of "loved".Tim_B said:Is the BBC 'loved' like the NHS is allegedly 'loved'?
I refuse point-blank to contribute to the seven-figure salaries of aments spewing their Leftist propaganda and bile from the multi-culti paradise of Londonistan.
I'll gladly go to jail, if necessary.0 -
I still think the only Lab MP I can see as a potential defector is Kate Hoey, and she wouldn't have a chance of holding her seat for UKIP.0
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Cobblers. Maybe in the days when the BBC was the only broadcaster. Not now. Not for decades...manofkent2014 said:
Except of course it also pays for the public communications network so whilst it could be scrapped part of the costs would have to be raised in another manner because Government needs a public communications network.RodCrosby said:
Half-hearted. Their policy should be to abolish it completely, and refund the last year's payment to every citizen who was conned/intimidated into paying it...manofkent2014 said:
This is what they say about the licence fee:RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
Radical, and a vote-winner!0 -
You cannot rely on private enterprises to deliver public infrastructure out of their own pocket..RodCrosby said:
Cobblers. Maybe in the days when the BBC was the only broadcaster. Not now. Not for decades...manofkent2014 said:
Except of course it also pays for the public communications network so whilst it could be scrapped part of the costs would have to be raised in another manner because Government needs a public communications network.RodCrosby said:
Half-hearted. Their policy should be to abolish it completely, and refund the last year's payment to every citizen who was conned/intimidated into paying it...manofkent2014 said:
This is what they say about the licence fee:RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
Radical, and a vote-winner!0 -
What public infrastructure? We're in a 24/7 global news/twitter/youtube/internet infrastructure...manofkent2014 said:
You cannot rely on private enterprises to deliver public infrastructure out of their own pocket..RodCrosby said:
Cobblers. Maybe in the days when the BBC was the only broadcaster. Not now. Not for decades...manofkent2014 said:
Except of course it also pays for the public communications network so whilst it could be scrapped part of the costs would have to be raised in another manner because Government needs a public communications network.RodCrosby said:
Half-hearted. Their policy should be to abolish it completely, and refund the last year's payment to every citizen who was conned/intimidated into paying it...manofkent2014 said:
This is what they say about the licence fee:RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
Radical, and a vote-winner!
"We don't need no stinkin' public infrastructure!"0 -
How is UKIP going to affect my life?manofkent2014 said:Oh I don't know. One of UKIP's aspirations is for the Government to have less influence on voters lives. Surely that is feasible?
Of course if Westminster doesn't buck it's ideas up there are other considerations that will potentially influence 95% of voters such as the lights going out and energy being effectively rationed
Scrap the Climate Change Act to keep the lights on, says Owen Paterson
The Climate Change Act 2008, which ties Britain into stringent environmental measures, should be suspended - and then scrapped - if other countries refuse to agree legally binding targets, says Owen Paterson MP
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/11156113/Scrap-the-Climate-Change-Act-to-keep-the-lights-on-says-Owen-Paterson.html
I go out with friends, I watch TV, I drive my car, I shop at the supermarket, I look at the internet. How on earth is UKIP or any Government going to have any effect on any of the above?
If we have a UKIP majority Government, I bet:
- Rates of Income Tax, NI, VAT and excise duties will all remain just about identical to today (none will change by more than 10% of its current value).
- The NHS, Schools, Police and Army will all continue to function in a broadly similar way as they do today (no changes will be discernible to the naked eye).
As for the lights going out - they won't. Whatever energy policy is followed won't affect this - if they look like going out emergency action will be taken to ensure they don't.
Sorry to disappoint you.0 -
Thing is that most of the Eurosceptic Labour MPs including Mitchell are on the hard left of the party (thus not really likely to like most of UKIP's other policies). Most Labour MPs on the right economically are also pro-EU.RodCrosby said:
What about Mitchell? "With a heavy heart, I'm standing down now, and advising my constituents to vote UKIP..." ?Danny565 said:I still think the only Lab MP I can see as a potential defector is Kate Hoey, and she wouldn't have a chance of holding her seat for UKIP.
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Why not? Every cable company in the US had to agree to a 'public access' channel as a condition of the deal to wire an area. There are monthly checks on all commercial radio stations of the 'emergency broadcasting network'.manofkent2014 said:
You cannot rely on private enterprises to deliver public infrastructure out of their own pocket..RodCrosby said:
Cobblers. Maybe in the days when the BBC was the only broadcaster. Not now. Not for decades...manofkent2014 said:
Except of course it also pays for the public communications network so whilst it could be scrapped part of the costs would have to be raised in another manner because Government needs a public communications network.RodCrosby said:
Half-hearted. Their policy should be to abolish it completely, and refund the last year's payment to every citizen who was conned/intimidated into paying it...manofkent2014 said:
This is what they say about the licence fee:RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
Radical, and a vote-winner!
You can rely on private networks to do it better and cheaper.
0 -
"Except of course it also pays for the public communications network so whilst it could be scrapped part of the costs would have to be raised in another manner because Government needs a public communications network."
Why? Communication nowadays happens online and BT and mobile operators provide the infrastructure for that. Why is a licence fee needed for that?0 -
No, the government needs ACCESS to communications networks. It does not need to own them.manofkent2014 said:
Except of course it also pays for the public communications network so whilst it could be scrapped part of the costs would have to be raised in another manner because Government needs a public communications network.RodCrosby said:
Half-hearted. Their policy should be to abolish it completely, and refund the last year's payment to every citizen who was conned/intimidated into paying it...manofkent2014 said:
This is what they say about the licence fee:RodCrosby said:
Is it UKIP policy to abolish the licence fee, and leave the British Brainwashing Corporation to its own devices? If not, it should be...FrancisUrquhart said:SeanT said:Just spent a pleasant eve ing with about 20 North London lefties, at a Kentish Town birthday party.
Interestingly, most of them evinced absolute contempt for UKIP..... and yet, with a little elucidation, sympathised with quite a few of their policies. While remaining resolutely anti-UKIP ("a successful way of being racist" blah blah blah)
I came away with complete hatred for everything these people believe, because they are such steaming hypocrites. Even as I like them as people, their political views are simultaneously pernicious, ridiculous, Roger-esque and lightweight. They haven't thought anything through. They're like never-ending teenagers, as the rest of the world has grown up.
A part of me wants UKIP to rape the other parties to death and win a 400 seat majority in 2015.
F*ck the Left, they are now ghastly and they deserve to die. I can see also why Marine Le Pen might just end up POTFR, the process is, for sure, exactly the same.
We could be witnessing a continent-wide, European Revolution - but this time it is the Liberal Elite on the receiving end.
I don't care much, never paid it. No ill effects for 30 years.
– We will review the BBC Licence Fee with a view to its reduction. Prosecution of non-payments of the Licence Fee would be taken out of the criminal sphere and made a civil offence.
Radical, and a vote-winner!0 -
Ok fine lets rely on them like we rely on the Energy companies even though its becoming ever more likely that the lights will go out and the water companies who do not deliver sufficient water capacity.
What will happen is slowly but surely coverage will only continue only where it is profitable for coverage to continue. There will be parts of the country that eventually will have poor, obsolete or non existent coverage.
But hey who gives a toss as long as we don't need to pay the TV Licence!0
